Questionable Flight Club and Checkout rules??
Posted by randytc18@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 13 comments
I just recently changed flight clubs and went to get instruction/checkout on a c182 today. The clubs owner said they usually just start checkouts on a c182 and give endorsements down from there for people with plenty of c172 flight time. I've been flying for about 3 years now. "If you can fly a c172 you can fly a 182" is how it was worded to me.
Met the instructor in person for the first time today and again, he seemed like he remembered nothing about me even though we had spoken on the phone multiple times. Again I informed him I had no c182 time and was nervous learning the new procedures for flying it. we finally jump in the plane and get going after him criticizing(multiple times) me for carrying a checklist while preflighting. "Preflight requires 2 hands". Well yeah some of it, but the ground holds stuff nicely when I need to set it down. We taxi to the runup and he seems just grumpy. Let's me work on the runup then starts into me again about something I missed even though I hadn't. He wasn't paying attention and starts questioning me why I'm performing the flight control check. By this time I'm thinking this is not going like I planned but continued on with the flight. We depart and head to another airport for tng's and he's not explaining anything and really getting snippy with me when I ask questions. Pulled out a checklist for pre landing stuff and he jumps on my again for the "paper" I shouldn't need. At this point I'm questioning decisions I made back to when I was in 1st grade. Really I am just kind of confused. Checklist, checklist, checklist is how I learned and this 30000 retired captain is ripping me for it.
Not sure how to followup. I keep going back and forth on requesting a different instructor and am wondering if their 182 endorsement down is a actual thing. This instructor kept telling me it's not even though the owner said otherwise.
Typical flight club shenanigans?
TrowelProperly@reddit
Uhhh, I mean the constant speed prop without a carb is enough to require an hour or two of adjustment. Maybe that was the real culprit?
bhalter80@reddit
Some 182s have carbs. The bigger thing I hear is about it being nose heavy, the surprise for me was how slow it was
Gutter_Snoop@reddit
Nose heavy if you have wussy 172 arms, lol. It certainly does land nicer with weight in the back though.
bhalter80@reddit
The student I had with one kept trying to tip it over landing
TrowelProperly@reddit
Yeah maybe... I remember the 182 to be pretty similar to the 172 in flight characteristics. The 206 was a completely different plane with how nose heavy it was. Just my experience in the cessna world.
usmcmech@reddit
Yes and No, there are a few unsafe extremes at play here.
Some pilots and instructors over complicate transition to a new airplane. Every new plane is a bit different and should be treated with respect. A CFI needs to be sure to point out the key subtle differences. A 182 has a few gotchas that can get expensive quickly. Big jet pilots in particular can struggle transitioning back to a small GA airplane.
OTOH, an Airplane is an Airplane. Transitioning from a simple fixed gear SEL to another fixed gear SEL shouldn't take long at all. Inexperienced or overly cautious CFIs should take a 500 hour pilot through a full 10 hour training program for a simple HP endorsement and 182 checkout is doing themselves and their students a serious disservice.
A new pilot in a new airplane at a new operation will be slow and deliberate. Taking time to go through checklists and looking up radio frequencies. A good CFI will not rush you understanding that you will pick up speed as you get some more time in the new environment. Yes it can be incredibly frustrating for a guy who knows the frequencies and taxi route by heart, but that's the job.
OTOH, taking an excessive amount of time to double and triple check everything isn't good either. Many
Gutter_Snoop@reddit
^ This. ^
On a checkout, the CFIs job should be about three things:
I used to do a lot of checkouts and would definitely shadow a prospective renter through their process but largely keep my mouth shut. I never had anyone fly so badly I didn't sign them off, although some definitely required more instructions (172 guy looking to rent a Mooney) than others (172 guy checking out in a 172).
Otherwise it should be pretty hands-off.
Gutter_Snoop@reddit
Pretty sure you just got a guy who doesn't really care about you or the checkout process so much as collecting some pay. You fly how you want, sounds like you know your limits and what's safe.
phliar@reddit
A 30,000 hour retired captain can be just as bad an instructor as a 200 hour ATP wonder! On the other hand, instructors are individuals and have different teaching styles. Is that the only instructor available?
(BTW it's not really true that if you can fly a 172 you can fly a 182... if you can fly a 172 well, you can fly a 182. A 182 is a lot less forgiving -- and more expensive! -- of things like bad landing technique than a 172.)
mkosmo@reddit
They fly basically the same is the message, I think, which is true. The skylane just flies heavier and has two extra controls.
Atom_Tom@reddit
If there's doubt, there's no doubt.
Definitely try a different instructor. If the experience is the same, you'd be far better off looking elsewhere.
Just because it's only a C182 doesn't mean they're entitled to compromise your safety.
Fly safe!!
randytc18@reddit (OP)
This is exactly why I was feeling the way I was.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
I just recently changed flight clubs and went to get instruction/checkout on a c182 today. The clubs owner said they usually just start checkouts on a c182 and give endorsements down from there for people with plenty of c172 flight time. I've been flying for about 3 years now. "If you can fly a c172 you can fly a 182" is how it was worded to me.
Met the instructor in person for the first time today and again, he seemed like he remembered nothing about me even though we had spoken on the phone multiple times. Again I informed him I had no c182 time and was nervous learning the new procedures for flying it. we finally jump in the plane and get going after him criticizing(multiple times) me for carrying a checklist while preflighting. "Preflight requires 2 hands". Well yeah some of it, but the ground holds stuff nicely when I need to set it down. We taxi to the runup and he seems just grumpy. Let's me work on the runup then starts into me again about something I missed even though I hadn't. He wasn't paying attention and starts questioning me why I'm performing the flight control check. By this time I'm thinking this is not going like I planned but continued on with the flight. We depart and head to another airport for tng's and he's not explaining anything and really getting snippy with me when I ask questions. Pulled out a checklist for pre landing stuff and he jumps on my again for the "paper" I shouldn't need. At this point I'm questioning decisions I made back to when I was in 1st grade. Really I am just kind of confused. Checklist, checklist, checklist is how I learned and this 30000 retired captain is ripping me for it.
Not sure how to followup. I keep going back and forth on requesting a different instructor and am wondering if their 182 endorsement down is a actual thing. This instructor kept telling me it's not even though the owner said otherwise.
Typical flight club shenanigans?
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. If you have any questions, please contact the mods of this subreddit.