Need Advice from Gen X with Kids. Should I interfere or let sleeping kids lie?
Posted by The_Outsider27@reddit | GenX | View on Reddit | 52 comments
This is a delicate issue. I have a friend who a 66 year old boomer.
She has a son who is 31, lives at home with her. He is a college dropout. Clinical depression keeps him in and out of jobs. He will get a job at Taco Cabana and get fired two weeks later. He doesn't have friends or dates. His world is his mom. When I do things with my friend her son will text to say come home and make dinner.
I'm childless and told I will never understand what it's like to be a mom.
My friend recently told she needs a hip replacement. She wants to retire but needs to support the 31 year old son. She looks exhausted. The son's dad sends little money to support him. The son will not get on disability or public assistance.
We went to a movie this weekend. She left her purse. I paid for tickets for both. Then he wanted snacks.
Lots of snacks. On the way home in the Uber he began criticizing my friend for not making more money and bad career choices. She is a lawyer like me.
After he went to bed, she told me she's worried about dying and no one to take care of him.
She is leaving him her retirement because she's given up all hope of this kid holding a job.
She asked if I would look after him if she dies suddenly.
I'm only 11 years younger than her.
How do I have the conversation with her that this 31 year old kid needs to find their own way?
I've watched him. This is not a man who is autistic or special needs. He is verbally abusive to my friend and I don't buy the depression excuse. He does no chores. It kills me to see my friend like this. She's lost several boyfriends because the 31 year old chases them away. Why can't he get on disability?
I don't want to be responsible for him. Do I try to have an intervention? Do I not understand because I'm not a mom? I don't know how to help her.
The_Dixco_Bunny@reddit
I would tell her absolutely not and why. I understand that she’s your friend but she dragged you into this by asking you to look after him - you don’t owe her anything but the truth.
Easier said than done, I know. Hugs to you. ☺️
The_Outsider27@reddit (OP)
Thanks. I've watched this train wreck for over 7 yrs. Thing is, he is a very smart guy and can be independent if she'd just kick him out and let him fend for himself. Harsh but how else will he learn? I care about him too. He needs a productive life in nine years he'll be 40.
EaterOfFood@reddit
Sometimes the school of hard knocks is the best education.
liquidpele@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness
The_Dixco_Bunny@reddit
Maybe you telling her no will be the kick in the ass she needs to get him independent. Probably not but one can hope.
microgiant@reddit
You're not a parent, that's true. You're probably not a pilot, either, but if you see a helicopter upside down in a tree, you still know there's a problem. You'd be entirely justified in telling her she needs to let him find his own way now, even if it means he suffers a bit in the short run.
Oceanbreeze871@reddit
You should not promise to take care of him. He’s not your responsibility. He’s a grown middle aged man.
In all honesty sounds like he has some undiagnosed stuff and needs to get it addressed. Maybe he can get on disability or meds ?
If he’s just lazy and been coasting through life..:well he needs to kind of figure that out on his own. Your friend, his mom is right to be worried, but you also can’t be taking in this adult child as a stray puppy either
Kwyjibo68@reddit
First, you don’t know that he’s not autistic or somehow disabled. He sounds exactly like many autistic people I know. Especially when they don’t have support. I’m sure his mother is doing the very best she can, but he likely needs outside help. There are no easy answers - parents of disabled children struggle with this every day. Most at best have a child who can work PT (with support and accommodations), and can take care of themselves physically, but they frequently have no friend network due to lagging social skills. What happens to those people when their parents die is what keeps us up at night.
Fake_Eleanor@reddit
All you need to do is say no. Say it clearly and unambiguously: "No, I am not going to look after your son after you die." Say that every time it comes up, as necessary.
You don't need to have an intervention, or to tell her how to manage her kid, in order to justify saying no. In fact, it's probably better to separate those. Make sure she understands your "no" is serious before you start digging in to trying to fix her life for her, if that's something you actually want to do.
You're friends. You can have a respectful conversation with her about the situation, particularly if you start by asking "do you mind if I give you some advice about your son?" But this isn't a situation you can fix, and it's probably not a situation you can convince her to fix. It's a pattern that's been going on basically his whole life.
What you can definitely do is set your own boundaries and be clear about them.
The_Outsider27@reddit (OP)
The last time I started with that, I got the you're not a mom and therefore have no idea what it means to love a child lecture.
I will set the boundary of no I won't do it. I'm chicken and feel I need an excuse. I'm relocating soon and can use that as an out.
ChubbyChoomChoom@reddit
Well, if you ever want to torch the friendship after she gives you the “you’re not a mom” line, here’s some food for thought from comedian Steve Hofstetter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekoDt_uxb_E
winklesnad31@reddit
That is gold. Thanks for sharing.
Mean_Fae@reddit
I'm a mom. I have a son and i see this situation the same way you do. Anybody with eyes, nonetheless a caring friend can see what's going on here. You don't need an excuse...that dude sucks and no one wants to be around him. I wish she didn't have to lose friends and significant others to see how bad its gotten.
bored-panda55@reddit
You aren’t a parent but you were a child at some point.
eightezzz@reddit
Well sounds like you need to just let her do what she wants to do. Tell her you won't be looking after her parasite, i mean, Son, when she's gone. He can look after himself with her money, burn through it and see what real life is like when he has nothing left.
Fake_Eleanor@reddit
Then that's your answer. She doesn't want to have that conversation with you. That's her decision to make.
You can either enforce your boundary, maintain a relationship, and not talk about her son, or you can decide that you can't keep quiet and should probably withdraw from the friendship.
I know it can be hard, and if you need to come up with an excuse to draw the line, you should. But "No, that's not going to work for me" is all the reason you actually need, so it would be OK if that's what you said.
CommonCut4@reddit
My friend’s brother is like this except 30 years on. The mom is pushing 90 and unwell. She has a younger husband who is still very healthy but he has no intention of supporting the guy once his wife passes. Pretty much everyone is sick of his mooching. I don’t know what he can do now that he’s close to retirement age, he might wind up homeless. The best thing your friend can do is try to get him to be self supporting asap.
cholerasustex@reddit
How about approaching your friend with your observation and worries?
Come from a place of care and concern.
Maybe there is underlying trauma (son or friend) that you may be not aware of.
Maybe separate the two issues of how she is being treated, and her sons Independence?
Ns4200@reddit
ugh that’s a tough situation. your friend is probably undermined 24x7 and has been conditioned to have no spine.
She needs a therapist to help he learn to set boundaries and care about herself. it’s not a black and white situation, she needs to see the nuances and put them into practice.
RCA2CE@reddit
I’d mind my own business
SpaceAdventures3D@reddit
If you think there is verbal and psychological abuse involved, you can report it. Time for your county to step in. Report it as elder abuse.
This might be a bigger problem that you can handle. If he is demanding that her mom stop her social life to cook him dinner, how is that any different than an abusive husband doing the same thing? If she can't date, that is controlling behavior. This is abuse.
He might have some sort of disability. But ti doesn't matter at this point. What matters is this is an abusive situation, and it needs to be reported. Then a properly trained person can step in and sort out his diagnosis, and where he needs to be. For both their sake, and yours, don't take this on by yourself. You need to report the situation, and advocate for someone to step in.
Exploding_Gerbil@reddit
THIS
Exploding_Gerbil@reddit
Boundaries!
Tell her No!!
Usually, I'm all for delicate, diplomatic approaches. But this situation is destroying your friend's health too, as well as rendering her fiscal, physical & MH crumbling. You would sincerely do her a favour if you made her realise, that she needs to stop treating her 30 yr old son like a 12 year old. The father won't be sending money because HE IS NOT A CHILD.
This 30 Yr old male is draining his mother mentally & financially & is ungracious, ungrateful and rude. He can claim Welfare, LIKE ANY ADULT WOULD DO. Too proud to claim, but not proud enough to leach off his mother? I'm sorry for OPs friend. But her mollycoddling has created a monster.
She clearly has enabled this behaviour but will not acknowledge or take responsibility for what she has created - a selfish, cruel, rude narc who demeans others whilst doing nothing with his life. A snob without ability or effort.
So, hard truths must be told, OP.
Maybe the friend will disconnect from you?
Good!
Harsh? Tough. But, dear OP, it'll save you money and your mental health down the road from The Leach. It's a hard No, sweetheart.
Protect yourself.
M_Solent@reddit
Gen X’er here. When I was in my late 20’s I attempted to change careers and crashed and burned. Compounding that, in that same period, I had cancer, and (in this era before Obamacare), I spent every penny I had (and then some) on medical care.
At 30, I was mentally depleted. I was dealing with some simultaneous crises: I didn’t have a good job, I didn’t know what I was going to do in the future, my mind was reeling from what cancer did to my body, and I was 100% broke.
I moved in with one of my parents in an attempt to take a break from life and pull myself back together. For many reasons I won’t enumerate, it was the most unpleasant time of my life. Being home made every single fucking thing I was dealing with, much worse.
After a couple months I got a job out of state and bolted. Additionally, I was still dealing with some follow-up procedures due to the cancer. I got fired, and moved back with my parent. At that point I took a shitty menial job to get out of the house, and made the best decision I could at the time that would get me the fuck out of there.
Those are my credentials to what I’m about to say next: It’s ok for you to just tell her no. Also, the fact that she would even ask you to take care of her 31 year old adult son, speaks volumes about his current status.
TL/DR: Say no and tell her you think it’s ridiculous and why if she presses you on it.
Mean_Fae@reddit
I accidentally went on a date with the version of this guy who was alone in his mother's house after she died.
It was a fucking nightmare. Not one thing had been moved or cleaned in the years since she had passed, including the bathroom. He found a way to feed himself and add to his record collection, as he did have a solid job. I just heard through the grape vine that he died before his 50th birthday because he couldn't even take care of his own health.
Maybe paint a picture for her that she's possibly created a person who will follow her to the grave in a short time. I would gently tell her that I could not care for a healthy grown adult, and one who is very unpleasant at that.
No_Zebra2692@reddit
Well, since you're not a mom, how can you possibly take care of her kid? And you of course think it would be better if his father stepped up because he, too, is a parent, unlike you.
I would just tell her that, but I've been called brusque more than once.
I think you need to be more direct with both of them because they doing their best to drag you into their drama. Like I'd have never bought him snacks at the movie theater (I don't even buy them for myself), and I would have asked him why he's criticizing him mother's career choice when he's never made any himself.
If your friend tries to make plans, ask her if they will be interrupted by her son, and if so, maybe you'll catch her another time.
Tiptoeing around the situation really isn't helping you OR the mom, she's probably thinking if you agree to take care of him, then she hasn't been in the wrong this whole time.
Fritz5678@reddit
Say no and butt out. I wouldn't get involved with that situation with a 10 foot poll.
happycj@reddit
Well, he won't live long after she's gone. I've known three people like this, and when they got the insurance money after their parent passed, they went wild with drugs and were dead within 5 years. Two of them within 3 years. Only one lasted to 5. And there was no previous history with drugs.
But the kid has never existed in the real world and has kept his mother in poverty so they have never had enough money to do anything stupid with it. So his first time with a pile of Mad Money will be his last time.
Sever those ties. Move on. You don't need that in your life.
cmb15300@reddit
I don’t have any children but I do have a mental illness, and I collect disability for it. But here goes:
First, it should be noted that having depression doesn’t mean that he shouldn’t be expected to follow some rules and respect boundaries: this means for example that he should be expected to do some chores and undergo available treatment
As far as getting disability payments (assuming this is the US) I did get SSDI the first time I applied, but I’m aware that getting on SSDI is akin to spinning the wheel or buying a scratch-off from Kwik Trip; many people in worse shape than I am have had to undergo years of appeals. And if he hasn’t had much of a work history his only other option is SSI, which is a smaller benefit amount and has different rules
I emphasize of course that having any mental illness doesn’t give one license to treat other people badly, again your friend has every right to set reasonable boundaries
Best of luck
Naive-Beekeeper67@reddit
Your friend is going down a rot hole totally of her own making.
She needs a psychologist, not a psychiatrist.
Just tell her firmly "No. I will not be looking after your son. He is 31 yrs of age now! He needs to look after himself. He is well into adulthood"
And i would not be having him come on outings with you both. Stuff that.
Strangewhine88@reddit
I have three friends in almost identical situation with abusive children, ex husbands that are not helpful, etc. There’s little to be done that hasn’t been tried except deadlines to move out and allow the adult kids to flail and be homeless.
Chai-Tea-Rex-2525@reddit
You don’t have to be a parent to care about children. They have a co-dependent relationship. The only advice I would give you is to suggest your friend get therapy, if for no other reason than to figure out what she wants to do for her son as she ages.
The_Outsider27@reddit (OP)
She has a psychiatrist. From what is shared with me the son is not what comes up in therapy.
RNH213PDX@reddit
In all honesty, unless your friend has some mental challenges herself, its almost like she is getting off on being a martyr here. She intellectually knows this is ridiculous, but being The Mother and this pathetic self-sacrifice is its own disorder. Obviously don't agree to raise this ManBaby, but also, why are you going on mother-son dates with them? Don't enable this sadness.
bored-panda55@reddit
She needs to speak to her psychiatrist about this. Seriously. She needs to tools and if her kid is so depressed he can’t hold down a job at Taco Cabano for 2 weeks he needs 1. Medication 2. Therapy and 3. Coping skills.
His lack of self awareness and living off his parents probably doesn’t help any.
I mean, my kid is 13 and is more self reliant then her 31yr old.
DoktorNietzsche@reddit
A psychiatrist is not a therapist -- they are generally two different things. Psychiatrists are medical doctors who can prescribe meds.
Also, "what comes up in therapy" is really under the control of the patient. If it's not coming up, it's because she's not bringing it up.
TJ_Fox@reddit
Just noting that clinically diagnosed depression is no joke, and certainly not an "excuse". People who haven't experienced depression, or haven't had to deal long-term with someone who is clinically depressed, often struggle (and fail) to imagine the condition as anything more than "feeling sad", which is rather like imagining, say, drowning as "holding your breath".
Chai-Tea-Rex-2525@reddit
You’re right that it is not a joke. And people battle it every day. But this isn’t about him. It’s about the mom and what she can do to take ownership of her life.
TJ_Fox@reddit
I was mostly responding to OP's comments that the son has clinical depression and later that "I don't buy the depression excuse".
MaximumJones@reddit
A thirty one year old, lives with his mom, becomes abusive when he doesn't get his way.
This is the exact plotline of the The Joker starring Joaquin Phoenix. 😎
I definitely would not agree to look after him.
LachlanGurr@reddit
I'm sure the conversation has been had. This guy requires a mental health service, maybe start with a social worker. The hard part is convincing them to accept something like that. When they know they will get someone they want it off it they will agree. This is a pretty serious mental health situation, be careful. Get some professional advice.
WGAS-26@reddit
My BIL is this type of a sponge. He’s 46 and expects his mother to pay for everything. It’s a codependency relationship for sure. No matter what you say, things will not change for her. Stay as far from him as possible.
Own_Bluejay_7144@reddit
Here is what to do: https://whatiscodependency.com/detaching-detach-let-go-with-love/
My brother is like this with my mother. I tried to help her for 20 years. It came to a head when I learned my mother's plan was to take out an insurance policy on herself, work 20 hours a day until she died, and give him her house and money. She is in her 70s. My brother disowned me when I confronted him with the plan.
I learned that as part of her co-dependency, she got off by complaining about him and getting a reaction from me, like your friend is doing to you.
Now, every time she tries to bring him up, I say, "I love you, Mom, but this is no longer my business. If you bring him up, I am ending our conversation." She tries various ways to sneak him into a conversation, but it has finally dawned on her that I am serious.
You can tell your friend that you love her, but you no longer want to hear about her relationship with her son. Nothing you do or say will change it.
Tx_Atheist@reddit
You don't understand because in whatever way you became so, you were prepared for adulthood.
You dont have the 'conversation'. But i would suggest letting it be known to her ( if / when she mentions it ) that you are not interested / available to parent her grown-ass man-child...in no uncertain terms.
tcrhs@reddit
Urge her to require her son to seek treatment for his depression or she will cut him off financially. A combination of medication and therapy will drastically increase his quality of life.
PappyBlueRibs@reddit
Side comment - this reminds me of the book "A Confederacy of Dunces", about a 30 yo unemployed delusional slob who lives with his mother and complains all the time.
It's an extremely funny book! Read it to see the funny side of this situation.
NorCalFrances@reddit
Unfortunately, I think you need to set a boundary with her and taking care of her adult son is on the other side of that boundary. Beyond that, if you cannot convince her that she's being taken advantage of there's little you can do until elderly protective services can become involved.
ParticularCurious956@reddit
I have kids and do not understand this kind of enabling parenting. Based on the people I know who have been through this, it's unlikely that either of them will change until outside forces require it. Unfortunately that's usually through disability or even death.
Prestigious_Fox213@reddit
No is a complete sentence.
As a parent, of course I want to know that my kids will be okay once I’m gone. This is why I am trying to set them up with a decent education, some life skills, and some good habits.
If your friend doesn’t feel like guiding her son towards independence, that’s her decision as a parent. But she, and her son, cannot expect anyone else to carry that burden.
You don’t owe her any explanation, but if she pushes for one, I would provide it.
eightezzz@reddit
What she needs to do is kick him out and enjoy the money she makes from her own hard work on herself.
She needs to use tough love on this parasite, or she'll continue living a miserable life, and he will go nowhere after she is gone.
Sinsyne125@reddit
I'm speaking frankly, and I hope it doesn't come off as disrespectful, but...
You are 54 years old, and for whatever reason, you don't have children, but you have your own life. You have a right to your own happiness.
Do you really want to take on this BS in your life? This isn't "looking after" or even "checking in" on someone's old-ass son if something happened to your friend -- this is just taking on a full load of your friend's problem that, by the sound of it, has compromised and prevented your friend from finding happiness of her own. Do you want to fall into that role?
Her son surely doesn't sound like he has a debilitating disease or some such -- it sounds like there is just as much selfishness involved more than anything else.
You mentioned that you are a lawyer, so you're obviously intelligent and worked hard -- In this case, I think you should put your well-being first.
The_Outsider27@reddit (OP)
Thanks . It will take courage because she is not going to put him out. My strategy is to work with her to figure out a plan to get him on the road to adulthood by age 35. He can't waste away like this. He will not be a lawyer like his mom or I but maybe working retail. Maybe learning a trade. If disability is the plan ok. But he has to apply for it.