I want to be a missionary pilot before working as a ATP
Posted by EvE_avi@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 72 comments
I‘m a female who is 24 years old, finishing up the private pilot training, planning to get instrument, commercial, and cfi. I’m also planning to attend community college to get A&P license at the same time. I would probably estimate the time frame getting all these is 3-4 years from now. In short before turning 30s, I want to become a missionary pilot for few years and then move my career path to commercial aviation side after.
My question is.. I have never met/heard anyone taking this step. Why? Is my life goal too unrealistic? Want to get sincere thoughts from people
PeoplesToothbrush@reddit
Graduated from a Missionary Aviation School, flew in East Africa for a while. PM me if you like.
jennyontheclock@reddit
Please do not and educate yourself
usmcmech@reddit
I have several friends who are missionary pilots with JAARS and MAF.
The basic flight training is no different than the normal career pilot track. There are several colleges that claim to specialize in this specialty area. Moody, LeTourneau, Liberty. You still have to build flight time until you get to roughly 1000 hours.
The biggest hurdle with this path is money. You have to be debt free and fundraise your own support. This is full time job that some people can be successful at and some are not. The actual job is not really different from Alaska 135 flying, only you're "serving the Lord".
In reality many "ministries" are huge wastes of money that could be better spent on commercially available charter. Samaritan's Purse has a DC-8 that consumes several million per year in fixed costs but only flys actual mission flights a handful of times per year. They could charter FedEx to the same destinations for considerably less money.
ApoTHICCary@reddit
Because let’s be honest:
These organizations bank on their missionaries to go out and ask for funding. I’ll not argue if their rationale is right, but they want to do something good and haven’t got the means, so they ask for help to do the good. As well as often fronting what money they have. The organization handles the incoming money, including taking a cut. They utilize charity tax deductions and incentives to fund these endeavors.
Surely no religious organizations would ever exploit these tax loopholes and purchase anything egregious under their institution. Surely none of these pastors bought million dollar houses, fancy cars, private jets…
CFIgigs@reddit
This is totally true. It wasn't really efficient, but a lot of people probably did it because it was their dream and somehow buying a FedEx shipment didn't satisfy their (ego) need to get hands on with evangelism.
usmcmech@reddit
My basic rule is that if the airplane is the focus of the ministry then it's an ego trip. If the airplane is an essential tool, but merely a tool, of the ministry then it's probably legit.
For the back country flying that my friends in JAARS and MAF do there often is no other way to get where they need to go. OTOH, if there is commercial operations to the same airports then it's probably a waste of money to have a separate parallel operation.
Samaritan's purse has flown into active warzones in their DC-3s when the UN and other NGOs refused to enter. However their DC-8 is a giant waste of money (the way Franklin Graham jumped into bed with Trump is just another red flag).
BrtFrkwr@reddit
This is the deal. You need to raise the support from your church and more from others. You do not do this to build time or for the money because it's not there. You do it for the spiritual commitment. It can be difficult and if you're looking for something easy, this is not it.
ApoTHICCary@reddit
Because let’s be honest:
These organizations bank on their missionaries to go out and ask for funding. I’ll not argue if their rationale is right, but they want to do something good and haven’t got the means, so they ask for help to do the good. As well as often fronting what money they have. The organization handles the incoming money, including taking a cut. They utilize charity tax deductions and incentives to fund these endeavors.
Surely no religious organizations would ever exploit these tax loopholes and purchase anything egregious under their institution. Surely none of these pastors bought million dollar houses, fancy cars, private jets…
CFIgigs@reddit
I used to fly international humanitarian aid aircraft. Ignore the people here who don't know anything about it. It's a small community, but if it's something you're passionate about, there are opportunities.
Most people I knew doing the missionary flying were either aligned with a particular church or went through a specific university program. Most had A&P licenses as they were quite thin staffed and had to do multiple jobs.
Google: Mission Aviation Organizations
You'll find the big ones there. Best way to get connected is to call them and ask about the different orgs like them. There's a lot of little ones.
You'll see in those results Liberty University. I think Le Torneu is another one. That's typically a way to get into those programs.
If you're willing to be slightly less evangelical, then AirServ is another option. They are mission based but slightly less up front about it.
The reality is: many humanitarian organizations have a huge overlap with church missions. You'll find like minded folks even if it's not directly working for a church affiliated program.
Do it. It'll change your life.
droopynipz123@reddit
I’m not interested in missionary roles specifically but I would be very enthusiastic about doing humanitarian work as a pilot. Any advice on how to get into this?
RaiseTheDed@reddit
There's other organizations that do humanitarian flying. Air Serv I think is one (can't remember if it's religious backed), there's another that is/used to be a thing. I think last I checked they still require 1000 hours though.
There's also domestic organizations, such as Angel Flight, Pilots and Paws (post today about them I think), there's one that transports people for family planning care out of states that have banned it (I'm not getting into politics, just saying it exists. I can't remember the name at this moment). All these are volunteer and you have to provide an airplane though.
Lots of ways you can help the community.
CFIgigs@reddit
I worked for Airserv. It was loosely christian affiliated, but not really in your face about it. I wasn't an evangelist. I just did it because I wanted to work in humanitarian programs for a few years to give back. But as others have said, once you're in it, you see how inefficient and misguided things can be in international development. That said, I suppose it's better than nothing.
It was an incredible experience. I did some of the best flying in my life and met awesome people. And occasionally did what I consider to be true humanitarian work.
I wouldn't trade the experience for anything. If people want to do that, I strongly recommend they follow their passion. It'll open your eyes and be really rewarding.
seminole10or@reddit
If this is something you’re passionate about, you should start working on fundraising. Lots of church groups fund missions to different parts of the world so I’d say to put together a presentation and start taking it around to see what kind of response you get.
The hardest part about any charity work in my experience is always raising the funds. But if you can find people or a large group of people (i.e. a congregation) somewhere who will commit to you, you might be able to pull it off.
My personal request regarding mission work would be that you please think carefully about trying to influence other cultures and traditions. Helping impoverished populations is one thing, but cultural erasure is another.
CFIgigs@reddit
Evangelism is typically the point unfortunately. The folks doing this work often seek out people with the expressed purpose of changing their local cultures and traditions.
card_shart@reddit
That is my issue with American "missionary" work. Not to sound like a wacky left-winger, but so much of what I see seems to promote American culture and interests in exchange for mildly improving material conditions.
I've always felt this effort would be better used for places like Appalachia, where even before the massive hurricane destroyed a large portion of it, some people do not have running water, regular access to food, and live in abject poverty.
Across the US, there are many children who go to bed hungry and sleep on the street. Why don't we help them first with all the money we use for glorified vacations for middle class Evangelicals?
CFIgigs@reddit
My observation is: they go where there is a big market for souls to save. So places like Africa and the middle east. Places where basically everyone isn't Christian = target rich environment.
These are corporations looking for new customers and the Muslim world is like a blue ocean for them.
capnrash@reddit
In addition to organizations others have mentioned, also look at Samaritan Aviation. I have a relative who is involved in this organization; they fly amphibs to hard-to-reach locations in PNG. They've also had a presence at Oshkosh for a few years now.
https://samaritanaviation.org/
Andyrooty@reddit
You should check out Moody Bible institute and their aviation programs. I know people who have flown with MAF and JARRS. I would recommend reaching out to both organizations and see what they're needs are.
Anthem00@reddit
who is paying for your missionary pilot expenses (plane, fuel, etc). There are many people who would go down this path to "build time" - but there isnt always someone willing to fund said project. ..
mkosmo@reddit
There are missionary organizations that pay pilots to fly for them.
itsjakeandelwood@reddit
Pilots still raise their own support
mkosmo@reddit
looks like you're right for ethnos360, but MAF and JAARS absolutely pay their pilots.
ASELtoATP@reddit
Please elaborate on them.
RaiseTheDed@reddit
https://maf.org/
Altruistic_Apple_252@reddit
The grandaddy of them all. 75 years old:
https://www.jaars.org/how/transportation/#air-ops
mkosmo@reddit
https://www.christianjobfair.com/listing-category/christian-aviation-pilot-jobs-careers-employment/
CFIgigs@reddit
They generally don't do it for the money.
And if think the salaries are bad, you're in for a treat when you see the accommodations.
One of the places I knew had a bunch of pilots and staff living in a "house" that was powered by a deep cycle marine battery. They had one light bulb.
And you know what? They were happy. In every sacrifice they found glory.
I wouldn't be surprised if many of them didn't accept money for their work.
Acceptable-Wrap4453@reddit
That reminded me so much of this.
1:40 if you think you hate it now, wait til you drive it.
RaiseTheDed@reddit
If this is something you want to do, check out MAF. All these people saying you need to fundraise don't realize organizations already exist for this....
And those saying getting to airlines ASAP miss the point of stopping to smell the roses. If this is your passion, pursue it.
itsjakeandelwood@reddit
Nah it's you who just don't know how these organizations work. Missionaries raise their own support, pilots included. The organization provides the training, sets the minimum funding level, and serves as the 501c3 umbrella to make donations tax deductible, but the missionaries (pilots) still bring their own donors. It's common for them to spend weeks or months every year speaking in churches to raise money to keep their jobs. And yes, if they fall below min funding they come home.
Source: parents financially supported several MAF pilots growing up, sisters went to Moody and knew folks in the aviation program
RaiseTheDed@reddit
Thanks for the info! It's been many years since someone from MAF talked to my college class. I must have completely forgotten...
Skydance98@reddit
Gosh, the level of disrespect evident in that JAARS website text is truly astonishing. What a narcisistic and arrogant mission they have. How about finding it in your heart and soul to respect others rather than attempt to anhilihate entire cultures by brainwashing them into a form of self loathing directed at themselves, their families, their heritage, their cultures, their ways of living. This is truly disgusting. Y'all need to look in the mirror.
Redbob73@reddit
Aside from the other Missionary Aviation centric universities already mentioned here, look into MATA (Missionary Aviation Training Academy) in Arlington WA. It's a small flight school where all the instructors were missionary pilots at some point and they have a lot of connections to MAF, JAARS, etc. They will do a good job of teaching you not only to fly but the missionary component of it as well.
flyingtroll69@reddit
My mind was in the gutter when I read that title
simplyfloid@reddit
Speaking as someone who went down this road for years and had to figure out things all on my own, my top advice would be:
1) Decide your priorities, because whichever one you focus on will have consequences on the other. Not necessarily bad, but either choice will cause your focus to be different and how that affects your career in the long run will be unknown.
2) start talking to a MAF recruiter and/or another agency. Doesn't mean you have to commit to a specific agency, but they will be able to give you good advise along the way.
3) focus on your training and don't get too ahead of yourself. Lots can change in a couple of years but both directions will require a similar starting path.
4) MAF specific but most operate similarly: Pilot only candidates are less wanted and require 1000hrs. Pilot\Mechanic candidates need only 500hrs. (I have heard of some rare cases where other agencies took a candidate at under 300hrs)
5) Realistically speaking, your not very useful to an agency for just a couple years. When I was considering MAF, it was 3yr contracts and the first contract was living local and learning the language (NO FLIGHT TIME IN 3 YEARS). Then the next contract half the time is spent learning the routes before your even really fulfilling your mission or not.
6) Be debt free. Good luck! I entered the A&P industry at the wrong time and had multiple layoffs during my mechanic career. Not everyone's story, but if you have significant bills to pay, you'll have to plan for that. Agencies won't accept you until most debt is gone.
engineeringstudent11@reddit
You mean we aren't all Jim and Elisabeth Elliot? Haha
ComprehensiveEar7218@reddit
Most people don't want to be missionary pilots because you live in third world countries for subpar wages flying crappy airplanes.
iPullCAPS@reddit
Your second paragraph was unhelpful and to some possibly even hateful. It’s not about the airplanes you fly or the money you make doing it. The one person I know who does it full time does it because they make a real, tangible difference in the lives of others.
ComprehensiveEar7218@reddit
Whatever helps them sleep at night.
iPullCAPS@reddit
I can’t find where I said I personally thought it was hateful… Maybe point it out to me if you find it somewhere, thanks!
Dalminster@reddit
You said "to some", when someone says that it implies that the person saying it is one of those "some", otherwise you're not really saying anything, just hiding behind weasel words.
Either it's hateful to you, or it's just a chickenshit way of trying to shut someone down. So which is it?
Meow-zelTov@reddit
Dude exactly. Also, why can’t we help people in need without involving sky daddy? Volunteer on your days off to help fly puppies or care packages, whatever.
ihatemakinguzernamez@reddit
Because we are all going to be dead in a matter of 70 - 80 years, but our souls are eternal.
Meow-zelTov@reddit
Oh ffs.
ihatemakinguzernamez@reddit
The fact that you think your and my life is 100% random and has no purpose must be depressing.
Dalminster@reddit
The fact that you think you need some external force to find your purpose in life must be depressing.
Meow-zelTov@reddit
Nice try, FAA.
Dalminster@reddit
That I can get behind 1000%
Why do we have to involve imaginary friends? Why can't we just be decent people because it's the thing to do, why does it have to be because some schizophrenic from a few thousand years ago said a voice told him to not be a dick to other people?
VanDenBroeck@reddit
Fly puppies?! So doggy style, not missionary style? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Meow-zelTov@reddit
Wait a second... Let me just call my lawyer real quick and slap a copyright on the new and improved title of my puppy rescue 501(c)(3). Thank you, kind Redditor!
VanDenBroeck@reddit
lol. You are very welcome!
PsuPepperoni@reddit
God sent souls to these countries knowing they will never be exposed to Christianity and therefore will end up in hell. It's up to us to thwart his evil plans or something.
Meow-zelTov@reddit
Oh controller, who sits in tower Hallowed be thy sector. Thy traffic come, thy instructions be done On the ground as they are in the air. Give us this day our radar vectors, And forgive us our TCA incursions As we forgive those who cut us off on final. And lead us not into adverse weather, But deliver us our clearances. Roger
ComprehensiveEar7218@reddit
Exactly. Take your religion and shove it up your ass, not down poor peoples' throats.
night_flight3131@reddit
My grandpa was a missionary pilot with MAF living in DRC for most of my mom's childhood, including during war. Yes, he is Christian, yes MAF is a Christian organization, but most of his work was very similar to anything you'd see in Alaskan bush piloting. Helping people get to hospitals, get out of the war zones, delivering goods during an ebola outbreak. Yes, the planes were small, but some people like small planes. Yes, his pay wasn't ATP pay, but that was worth it for a lifestyle that he found fulfilling.
And having grown up in a house where my mom has many stories to tell about a childhood living primarily in a third world country among those people who had religion "shoved down their throat," I think that displays limited understanding of what being a missions pilot actually involves. It's not "let me tell you about Jesus while I fly you to the hospital." It's having aircraft to build a support system that involves places where churches have already grown.
TopNotchSeaweed@reddit
Who hurt you
ComprehensiveEar7218@reddit
Does the truth upset you?
CampThick1978@reddit
I’ll do the same, but I have two jobs and plan to pay out of pocket.
Dalminster@reddit
Speaking at least for myself, the premise of being a missionary in the 21st century is rather offensive to me and an affront to human dignity as a whole. I for one want no involvement or association with anything approaching a religious organization and I feel like involving aviation with religious proselytizing cheapens it.
I speak only for myself, but I would hazard a guess that I'm not the only one who thinks this way, though.
KehreAzerith@reddit
Cut A&P Cut missionary pilot Become CFI Most efficient path to the airlines (or equivalent)
Unless you want to do some gymnastics with your career, it's going to add on years to the path
Ok_Concentrate_511@reddit
There’s more to aviation than the fastest path to Delta.
jnak11@reddit
It’s definitely an interesting part of aviation. I’m not currently interested, I did my time of service in the military. However, 21.Five podcast did an episode on MAF and I found it interesting and insightful. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/21-five-professional-pilots-podcast/id1460355472?i=1000603105036
To answer your question, and I’m sure you’ve gather from the posts here, lots of pilots are interested in the money, seniority and QoL aspects of getting to 121 flying as soon as possible and look to volunteer (or not) in their off time once established at their final airline.
officer_boat@reddit
I've got a similar thought to you, but flip the script. I'd like to put in time wherever I can and then explore missions aviation routes. I don't know many of the organizations, but the couple I have seen only want pilots with X000 hours and practical A&P experience, not just certs, heavily preferable.
What organization(s) are you looking at for my curiosity?
Numerous-Reach5325@reddit
Check out SMAT aviation in Michigan. They train pilots and A&P for this exact reason. Dealing a lot with MAP and JAARS
ucmenotid@reddit
Came here to recommend SMAT. Almost as cheap as a community college for A&P but mission-focused high-quality training. Training to the standards that we need to bring the field up to.
Unlucky_Geologist@reddit
DM me. I have a friend who is a missionary pilot.
TooLow_TeRrAiN_@reddit
You’re basically screwing your own career trajectory by not getting to the airlines as fast as possible. Seniority is everything. Don’t waste time with other nonsense just get CFI and grind. After you get to ur dream airline you can take an LOA and go do all the missionary stuff you want and be able to come back to your cushy 6 figure job after
TopOsprey@reddit
Not everyone wants to take the same path.
SpaceMarine33@reddit
Sounds like you would be perfect for SkyWest based In Utah
BillWeld@reddit
Check out this guy and his YouTube channel: https://www.missionarybushpilot.com/
Yesthisisme50@reddit
Because realistically it probably won’t happen
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
I‘m a female who is 24 years old, finishing up the private pilot training, planning to get instrument, commercial, and cfi. I’m also planning to attend community college to get A&P license at the same time. I would probably estimate the time frame getting all these is 3-4 years from now. In short before turning 30s, I want to become a missionary pilot for few years and then move my career path to commercial aviation side after.
My question is.. I have never met/heard anyone taking this step. Why? Is my life goal too unrealistic? Want to get sincere thoughts from people
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