What's with the new cover pic?
Posted by VastUnderstanding326@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 17 comments
Imo Romania is Balkan only in the brain of some Ro. southerners, e.g. - I scroll around here like a curious polite neighbor and I see a lot of appeals to cultural norms and icons that are common knowledge among Slavic peoples and that have no meaning for Romanians, yet in the new cover all the real Balkans nations are now behind Romania like we're Balkan no.1 or smth , that's just silly. Don't get me wrong, I am happy to discover these new things, but for the last 150 years we have been caught between Austro-Hungarians and Russians, we were never been pashaliks, I have no idea who Balkanovic is.
Surely I will be downvoted by the afore mentioned compatriots, but sincerely, people of other nations, do you really feel like Romania belongs in your happy little group, let alone as a forefront?
Sector3_Bucuresti@reddit
I'm not like you. I'm more Bulgarian than Hungarian.
AshenriseOfficial@reddit
I'm Germanic by genetics but I wholeheartedly embrace my Balkan heritage since I'm Bucharest-born&raised
Not a Frankenstein. But what I like to call a Balkanstein.
AshenriseOfficial@reddit
Take a look at this map
Details to mention beforehand: I'm born and raised in Bucharest. I travel to Transylvania often enough (even lived for some years in Maramures and have ties with Cluj). This being said, whenever I take the train or fly over the Carpathians in the blue marked region, the Central European vibe exists, it becomes blurry between the cities of Transylvania and those from say Czechia, or Poland, or Germany (or others from the region). Life is at a slower pace there and you can see the Hungarian influences around the border with Hungary or Saxon influences reflected in cities and towns from the middle of the country, not to mention the amazing mountainside.
Now to reach the juicy part: the green marked area in the south which includes Bucharest, Craiova, Constanta and smaller towns are very Balkan in nature, genetically, culturally, the way the people talk and behave, the wacky traffic and overall more animated vibe. Bucharest of course has all the spectrum of people being a large city. But the Balkanisms and especially conflictual mindsets are very present.
This is not simply personal perception. Go to Sofia or any other major town in Northern Bulgaria and you'll see lots of similarities between people and their behavior or chaotic urbanism. Same goes for Serbia. We have Greek influences all around through Orthodoxism (the Cantacuzino family was straight up imported from Greece). The Turks left their mark around here as well. We have some linguistic ties with Albania.
Think of popular foods in Romania: we have mici which have all sorts of variations around the Balkans, like cevapi in Serbia, sarmale is a variation of a Turkish food (sarma literally means "wrapping/rolling" in Turkish), Bulgarians brought the yogurt which I personally love, and many other examples which you'll have to google yourself.
We can't simply "erase" history just because the Balkans are perceived as something "unworthy" by usually snobby&elitist pricks. I'm not ashamed of belonging to the Balkans, Just like I'm not ashamed of communism, as destructive&shitty as it was, it's a part of our history and have defined who we are today.
While some Westerners have called us gypsies and looked down at us as second class citizens (I never experienced it first hand because I have Germanic traits and they've treated me with respect, but definitely felt undeserved second-hand shame throughout time via news headlines or hearing people talk on the streets), some of the Balkans actually look up to Romania seeing it progress. Headlines in Bulgarian news are along the lines of "Romania is getting farther ahead", not "gYpSy RoMaNiAn BeGgArS iNvAdInG".
And much less so should I feel shame seeing Romania "leading" the pack in the cover image. In fact, I'm proud of it and wholeheartedly embrace it. Love my Balkan heritage and love all my Balkan bros and sisters!
derrderri@reddit
Romania is honorary balkan.
VastUnderstanding326@reddit (OP)
I can agree with that, and then our placement in the cover should reflect that.
Leontopod1um@reddit
There are too many ethnographic similarities on the two sides of the Danube for you to be counted as non-Balkan and Northern Bulgarians as Balkan.
VastUnderstanding326@reddit (OP)
As I live in the South of Romania and have visited Bulgaria quite a lot there is hardly any, and besides, 70% of Romania is elsewhere, so no, it's way off to call the entire country Balkan. I would repeat again that the Romanian Principalities, even the South, were never made into provinces/pashaliks of the Ott Empire, which Bulgaria was for 500 years, which makes a ton of difference.
Leontopod1um@reddit
Visiting a country is a very shallow dive into its ethnography, and much of course is hidden under modern globalistic influences. Unless you attended authentic regional folk festivals and visited local ethnographic museums I doubt you got an accurate impression.
The Ottoman Empire is a later influence after the ethnic identity of Slavs/Bulgarians and Romans had already formed. Hungarian influence is also present in parts of North-West Bulgaria, by the way, but again, it is just an influence. If you take away all Ottoman, Austro-Hungarian and modern influences from Bulgarians and Romanians, you just get varying degrees of Southern Slavic and Helleno-Roman substrates. Needless to say, Daco-Thracians and kin were involved in the formation of both substrates.
VastUnderstanding326@reddit (OP)
Yes, there are many connections between our countries, from Daco Thracian to the heleno-romanic periods and to The Bulgarian Empires, but also a significant cultural gap and evolution since. Ofc, since until 100 years ago borders were much more permeable, in those regions it is natural to find more similarities because of natural human movement and general trade, at the same time those do not apply as much to the inner territory. In the north of Ro we had the same phenomena with Polish, Ukrainian, even Slovaks at some point, and to this day there are small minorities of these populations in Romania, as there are Romanian communities in these countries by the borders. I do not insist on the difference from Balkanism bc I think we are special, it's just weird to be called Balkan when you have no such attributes, geographically (we have nothing in common with Balkans Mt, we always centered in the Carpathians) or culturally (Latin Orthodox, well, except for some foods and a few basic words that are mostly gone now). I think the most Balkan trait we have, a leftover of the Phanariots, greek rulers of Wallachia and even more briefly of Moldavia under Ott. vasality is actually corruption, particularly social advancement via bribery.
CuriousBrownQuokka@reddit
Dude, we are balkans in blood, traditions and behaviour, we can't have(and know) all the particularities from each country but for sure we're balkan amd proud of it!
PensiveFish@reddit
Our culture and genetics are Balkan. The fact that we were not a pashalik is not an argument. Balkan culture is not Ottoman culture - you're starting your argument with an invalid assumption.
Balkan culture is the area of influence of the former Eastern Roman Empire. Fuck, even the inhabitants of the Eastern Roman Empire called the Balkans Romania - that's right. The only foreign rulers and nobility Romanians have accepted throughout ages have been of Eastern Roman descent - in fact, half of our medieval nobility has been of Byzantine origin. We even call our religion "Greek Orthodox", and until mid 19th century, our Metropolises were part of the Patriarchate of Constantinople.
Genetically, we're closest to Bulgarians and Serbs, and lots of ethnic Romanians are closer to Bulgarians or Serbs than to Romanians living in the other half of Romania. More 2/3-rds of our genetics are native Balkanite (pre-Slavic) plus Greco-Roman.
Lakuriqidites@reddit
Oh boy, yes you will and rightly so
Divljak44@reddit
Yes and no, I feel for instance Romania is more Balkan culturally then Croatia, yet geographically its other way around.
And Slovenia especially is not Balkan, its more trough association with Yugoslavia, where eastern parts associated them with Balkan and brought some Balkan culture trough immigration, and common state
VastUnderstanding326@reddit (OP)
Yeah, I only mentioned the Slavic element bc absent of Turkish domination it is something that connects these peoples, however remotely, while we don't even have that.
Divljak44@reddit
There are 2 aspects of being balkan, geographical, and cultural, only to some both is applied, or rather is in spectrum.
Like for instance, in Croatia, Balkan thing is mostly just geographical, most of cultural aspects are brought in trough yugoslavia, and immigration from parts that were under ottomans.
Even like 30 years ago it would be hard to find Burek or Ćevapi in Croatia for instance, which is typical Balkan food
VastUnderstanding326@reddit (OP)
It's only here I've been accused of MiIttel-Europeanism, on which I had only a vague notion what it is about and pnly because I do not support the Balkanism claim.
I would say we are Eastern Europeans, but even that does not describe us, bc we are a particular case of Latin Easterners with multiple cultural influences. As a mater of fact, I think people who promote both are uncomfortable with our unique stance and just desperately want an affiliation I am perfectly fine without.
HeyVeddy@reddit
Well put