Will I regret light sport restrictions
Posted by fleemfleemfleemfleem@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 48 comments
I think getting a third class medical would be challenging. Nothing that makes me dangerous, but the paperwork and cost burden given my history looks pretty intimidating.
My eventual goal is to be able to fly cross-country, see more of the country, and maybe do a day trip to another city if I want.
There is a school near me that does light sport training in an aeroprakt. I do like that mosaic will likely open up the kinds of aircraft available (assuming they're willing to rent to a LSP).
However, it seems like some of the restrictions on LSP would complicate things. Good planning should prevent needing to fly at night (although it would be nice to have the option,) but it like even with great planning, IMC could arise, and being able to get trained in instrument flying would be much safer.
Would it make sense to do LSP now, continue learning and getting time that would make PPL just a knowledge test and check ride, and worry about medical down the line if I feel too restricted, but risk losing privileges after that time investment?
Just try to figure out the medical now, risk never being eligible for LSP, but possibly gain eligibility for PPL?
Just learn to accept the limits of LSP? Has anyone gone that route and regretted it?
autobahn@reddit
There's pretty much no harm in doing light sport now.
I would hold off on doing medical until you're absolutely sure you'll need to use the privileges.
There's no reason you can't train on instruments, you just may not be able to get rated.
12-7@reddit
Fly light sport for now, see if you actually like it as much as you think you might. You can always take the private checkride later if and when MOSAIC actually comes to fruition in the form that people expect it to take.
fleemfleemfleemfleem@reddit (OP)
Based on my reading EAA asked them to allow night vfr with maybe just a vision test, but who knows. There's are a lot of other lobby groups with something to say.
Definitely seems like a reasonable middle ground for now. Just nervous I might love it but end up forever feeling limited, or trying for medical and losing privileges.that would be pretty heartbreaking.
geekmug@reddit
I would be surprised if night flying privileges were expanded. In most (all?) ICAO member countries, night VFR is not allowed or requires an additional endorsement/rating. The ability for a PPL in the US to fly night VFR is grandfathered, but it's not necessarily a good idea without an instrument rating. It's easy to find yourself without any visual contact with the ground and dodging clouds at night can be a challenge. It's fine on a severe clear full moon night, but an overcast night can easily become an emergency, especially in single-engine plane.
fleemfleemfleemfleem@reddit (OP)
It sounds like the biggest restriction then is the instrument rating, which I doubt they'd change anytime soon.
geekmug@reddit
Many pilots never get their instrument rating because it doesn't impact their type of flying. I have seen estimates that about 50% of private pilots get an instrument rating, but only about 20% of those are instrument current. In other words, about 90% of private pilots are not legal to file IFR. It really depends on location and flexibility for whether IMC days would actually limit your enjoyment in a meaningful way. A lot of IMC days have other reasons you wouldn't want to fly.
I don't think there is any harm in getting a Sport Pilot certificate and flying around and finding out if the hypothetical limitations are actually factors for you. In theory, you could need as few as 6 hours of dual (3 Night, 3 Instrument) if you were tower operations endorsed to prep for a Private Pilot, but the reality is that you probably will need more time to checkride prep. The biggest downside is that the Private Pilot ACS gives no credit for the Sport PIlot certificate, so you would be doing a complete checkride again. If the LSA is IFR-capable, then you could even use the same plane. Otherwise, you may have to learn a new plane for the checkride.
Acceptable-Wrap4453@reddit
I would not plan on what’s being rumored to change. If you are ok with the sport pilot privileges today, then go for it. Personally I don’t think you’ll regret it. I haven’t flown at night in over a year. And flying in a Bravo, meh. You’re not missing out on much unless you live near one and it gets in the way of your destination. And even then You can fly under it.
We don’t really know what’s going to come out for mosaic. We have the nprm but it’s not a final rule yet and things could change. And MOSAIC was supposed to come out in like 2020 or something. Last I heard what we saw on the NPRM was scrapped and being rewritten.
Look at basicmed. That was supposed to replace the 3rd class medical entirely. No medical required. Imagine just being able to go get your PPL with your DL. That’s it. But congress bastardized that bill so much it became a shell of what it was intended to be. Still a small step forward and useful for older, retired pilots with health issues they don’t want to discuss with their AME or deal with AAM300. But absolutely not the gigantic leap it was supposed to be. Even my own congressperson was against it until it got changed in the name of “safety”.
I waited for the basicmed thing to come to fruition for years due to a history of ADHD and once that happened I just dealt with the neuropsych eval. It wasn’t bad. Now I have a medical. Tbh my biggest regret is not doing sport sooner while basicmed was pending legislation. If I had done sport I wouldn’t have missed out on years of flying. Tbh if basicmed was never teased to replace 3rd class medicals so much I probably would have applied for a medical much sooner.
Sorry. Long rant. Tl;dr only assume your SPL privileges will only ever be what they are today. If that changes for the good then be happy about it when it happens but don’t plan on it until it’s actually codified.
fleemfleemfleemfleem@reddit (OP)
The size limit changes would not be a dealbreaker to me. As I read it, sport pilots can get a log book endorsement which allows them to enter class b airspace under current rules.
Really at the airfields in reasonable driving distance the rentable aircrafts are limited to an aeroprakt, 172s and piper Cherokees. The 172s and Cherokees don't seem to have much clear appeal to me over the aeroprakt, and cost quite a bit more to rent.
Really the main things I'm worried about are night and instrument (in case of some unexpected emergency situation), but it seems like the consensus is to get that training anyway and I wouldn't want to fly in bad weather anyway.
Acceptable-Wrap4453@reddit
There’s nothing saying you can’t do simulated instrument training. Or go into actual imc in a non-LSA instrument certified aircraft with a CFII on their filed flight plan. You just can’t log the time as PIC.
Also, my understanding is that a bravo endorsement is for a specific time. So if you plan on flying into an airport near a bravo and absolutely need the bravo clearance to get there you’ll get the endorsement for that day.
I’m not a CFI so I could very well be wrong. Hopefully one chimes in here.
fleemfleemfleemfleem@reddit (OP)
Obviously I have no experience so I'm just going off what I've read or watched.
I saw a YouTube video where a ppl pilot got a possible pilot deviation because he lost radio contact with the tower and briefly flew through class b airspace without getting permission first.
The way it is written seems like operating in tower controlled airspace isn't a part of the minimum sport pilot training, but a CFI can give extra training/endorsement so that a sport pilot can exercise the privilege.
That's why I was thinking that once endorsed for operating in controlled airspace the protocol would be the same where communication with the tower and permission were required prior to flying through. I wouldn't be surprised if I'm wrong though.
12-7@reddit
Yeah, the EAA and others can ask, but I'll only believe what I see when the regulations change. My point is simply not to make plans based on what may happen in the future. I still think sport pilot is a reasonable path for you. If and when MOSAIC comes to fruition, you can determine if you're fine continuing to fly under LSA rules or if you want to upgrade to a private certificate and go through the medical process then.
RaiseTheDed@reddit
Can I ask, what medical conditions do you think might disqualify you?
fleemfleemfleemfleem@reddit (OP)
I can qualify, it just looks like a PITA.
Diabetes: I had an episode of (probably covid induced) hyperglycemia in 2021. Since then A1C has been 4.9, lower than many non-diabetics. Never had a spot reading above 100 mg/dL. Take metformin XR, just because it's a pretty much only upsides medication, but my sugar hasn't gone up when I've gone off.
ADHD misdiagnosis. Tried the meds (less than 4 years ago) but stopped them because they mostly just messed with my sleep.
Mild hypertension and hyperlipidemia kept in check with Lisinopril, and atorvostatin.
Nothing fundamentally disqualifying (as I read the rules), but potentially expensive for a HIMS evaluation, and reading people's horror stories makes me think not worth the hassle.
anaveragecfi@reddit
The ADHD is the least of your worries. According to the recent changes in the AME guidebook, you qualify for an issuance based on your history (must be >2 years ago and the only ADHD medication you were taking at the time)
fleemfleemfleemfleem@reddit (OP)
The documents on the FAA website I can find say 4 years. <4 years is standard track and still requires HIMS and cog screen can costs about $4000. >4y and I'd be eligible for the fast track. Then I could have a psychologist write a report that I was free of symptoms (~$1000) and potentially get it that day. However reading through the subreddit, there are a lot of people who's ame isn't caught up and still deferred.
I really wish I hadn't listened to my ex and gone in for it-- most of the "symptoms" I had disappeared as soon as there wasn't someone in my life telling me I must be diagnosable because I forgot what day i had a dentist appointment.
Regardless, I think maybe if I the do the sport license and wait out the 4 years, safe flight hours in that time might be good evidence of my safety to fly.
anaveragecfi@reddit
You’re probably right. I was thinking of Anxiety and depression, not ADHD. I’m sure you’ll be fine after some time passes.
fleemfleemfleemfleem@reddit (OP)
I thought about taking lessons about seven years ago, and decided to wait until I was in a better financial position. Really shows that the best time is now. Could have done it then and gone basicmed.
davidswelt@reddit
You do not have diabetes if these are your numbers off Metformin. Unclear why you are taking Metformin. On the longevity train? Even if you had diabetes you should be ok. Take a look at the FAA documentation for AMEs.
ADHD -- find a senior AME for a consult (before starting a medical / opening MedXpress). Might require neurocognitive testing to show that you don't have ADHD.
fleemfleemfleemfleem@reddit (OP)
Endo says he wants everyone on metformin. My read of the longevity stuff is that the evidence is pretty weak. It's cheap and the xr doesn't give me bowel issues, so I haven't seen a reason to fight it.
I'm a little iffy on my Endo though. My background involves science. He seems to think sglt2 is in the disal nephron, and said some other slightly off things.
49Flyer@reddit
If your Endo wants "everyone" on anything, you need a new Endo.
fleemfleemfleemfleem@reddit (OP)
Ideally, yes but hard to come by where I live. I think the next closest is a few hours drive.
Mispelled-This@reddit
Finding a new one will be a lot easier once you are a Sport Pilot!
fleemfleemfleemfleem@reddit (OP)
True. "I flew here for the appointment, can you sign this document that I'm medically capable of flying," is probably a persuasive argument.
Mispelled-This@reddit
I meant that you can see a doctor a lot further away when you consider the speed and range of a plane. Try to keep it within a range you’re willing to drive if necessary due to WX, of course.
davidswelt@reddit
what is your diagnosis?
fleemfleemfleemfleem@reddit (OP)
In 2021, hyperosmotic hyperglycemic state and t2dm on the basis of the HHS. Never did a glucose tolerance test.
I've monitored fasting and post-prandial at times and the curve wasn't out of the ordinary for a non-diabetic.
Since then, I haven't pursued having someone say I was in "remission" since that seems to be a controversial idea, and there didn't seem to be any benefit to pursuing that.
frkbo@reddit
I'm not a doctor, but I've had T1DM for 30+ years so I've picked up a thing or two about glycemic control. Some endocrinologists are great, some not so much.
If I were in your shoes I'd consider one of two options: either go seek out a second or third opinion from a good endo as to what exactly happened to you in 2021, or chalk it up to a one-time covid complication and forget about it. Both of these involve ditching your current endo. Your primary care doctor can order an A1c any time they (or you) want. If you want to get an FAA medical, you may have to go with the first option.
As for metformin... personally I'm on the metformin bandwagon (the cost/risk/benefit seemed worth it to me), but I'd be skeptical of a doctor who blindly puts everyone on anything. If you want to stay on it, your primary care doctor can prescribe that too.
RaiseTheDed@reddit
The ADHD will probably be the hardest/most expensive one, honestly, since you don't qualify for the fast track right now. It'll also take the longest. Not sure about hypertension and hyperlipidemia though.
I think my comments still stand down below, try to determine how far you want to take flying. There are many sport pilots around. And just because you are a sport pilot, doesn't mean you can't get instrument training for emergency situations (as long as your airplane can do it, J3 Cubs aren't flying in clouds lol).
I started editing my comment with this, then you replied. I'm just going to leave it as-is, maybe someone will find it useful at some point:
Scrolled your post history, I see a post about type 2 diabetes. See this page from the FAA and find diabetes, there's a couple options to choose from.
If T2 is the only thing that is really a factor, it's not a big deal. You can qualify for a third class medical (even first), you just have to submit some extra stuff, but if it's something you really want to do, you might want to consider it. I know several people who have 1st class medicals and work for airlines with T2. Yes, it'll cost some to get all the right stuff, but it won't be as expensive as anxiety or a mental health diagnosis.
With that being said, flying at night and instrument conditions can be easily avoided. But, getting instrument rated will make you a better pilot.
I say start with an intro flight, see if you can determine how far you want to take it. If you're happy with just being a sport pilot, that's all fine and dandy.
Mispelled-This@reddit
I’d say go for the SPL, but tell your CFI that you want to train to PPL standards, i.e. dual night hours, longer XC, etc.
FWIW, dual hours with a CFIS will count toward a PPL if (and only if) you pass the SPL checkride.
You can always do instrument training later for your own piece of mind; you just can’t take the checkride as a SPL. If you do this, be sure to get a few hours of actual.
bhalter80@reddit
You can always upgrade from SP if you decide that you can get certified so I don't think you're painting yourself into a corner. You can even get instrument training and fly practice approaches to maintain proficiency with those skills for use in an emergency if it makes you feel better.
I'm in the middle of doing an IFR rating for a private pilot who's been flying a Mooney for 400 hours without an instrument rating. I also just did a refresher for someone with about that number of hours that was extremely non-proficient in instrument flight. I bring that up because they seem to be getting by flying only in VMC even in New England where we have a lot of IMC. Learning the skills needed for an instrument rating is really transformational on your flying and I highly recommend it whether you can hold an instrument rating or not
fleemfleemfleemfleem@reddit (OP)
If I did go LSP at first I would definitely ask the cfi to teach me instrument flying after even if I might never be allowed to use it. I'm looking at it as a "continuous improvement" kind of thing where the licensing is a great milestone, but not the end of the road.
Mispelled-This@reddit
That’s exactly the right mindset.
lucifer2990@reddit
That's what I'm doing and it's been great so far. I also go to a lot of events in the aviation community. If you make friends with ppl pilots, instrument rated pilots, aircraft owners, etc. they will often offer to safety pilot for you or join you on cross country trips for cost savings or time building.
frkbo@reddit
Sport pilot here, no regrets. In order to get a medical, I would have had to make several changes to my healthcare that would likely have made my health worse. I've flown coast-to-coast VFR and done lots of day and overnight trips that would have been totally impractical otherwise.
(To be pedantic: the certificate is called "sport pilot", not "light sport pilot". Currently, a sport pilot can only fly Light Sport Aircraft, but the MOSAIC draft specifies a wider range of "aircraft that a sport pilot may operate". Leave the "Light" off unless you're talking about an airplane.)
Economy-Acadia3987@reddit
I would say get the light sport and then start the medical process
Mike92104@reddit
I started with sport, and then upgraded to private. Honestly 90% of the flying I do can be done on a sport certificate.
My airplane of choice currently is an Aeroprakt A32. They're a blast to fly.
fleemfleemfleemfleem@reddit (OP)
The flight school as an A22. It looks like a very capable plane.
Financially, owning one wouldn't be a smart decision in the short term, but maybe I can find a partnership or someone who rents them out.
Mike92104@reddit
I think the A32 is just an upgraded version. The A22 will probably ve a blast too. Owning an airplane is never a "smart" decision. Go get the sport certificate. If you decide it's too restrive, you'll have fun upgrading to the ppl. Hopefully mosaic will get done before you need to.
MostNinja2951@reddit
Remember that sport pilot rules prevent flying in IMC, they do not prevent instrument training. You can still get some training hours and learn enough IFR skills that you can escape a VFR into IMC emergency and get down safely.
As for the rest, it's not a big deal assuming the expansion of the LSA category happens as expected. The C172 range is perfectly capable of most of what you'd do as a hobby pilot and the night flying limitation isn't too hard to work around. A full PPL is obviously better but if your medical limitations include a high risk of being grounded and losing the SPL option it's probably not worth the risk.
ltcterry@reddit
“Light” is part of the aircraft description. The Certificate is “Sport Pilot.”
Post-MOSAIC it’s likely that a Sport Pilot won’t be much different in practice than a typical Private Pilot - one other person, daytime, below 10,000 feet. This is most of my first 1,000 hours!
And if you want to be a Commercial Pilot, do it in a glider w/ no medical required.
fleemfleemfleemfleem@reddit (OP)
That's a good point.
Commerical Pilot in a glider would apply only to gliders, no? Would it affect privileges in other aircraft?
ltcterry@reddit
Your Certificate would say “Commercial Pilot” on the front.
The back would say “glider. ASEL Sport only” or something similar.
In a no-medical situation it’s just fun and bragging rights.
cazzipropri@reddit
My recommendation is to keep investing into the third class, and as soon as you get it, go BasicMed.
This is contingent on the third class being feasible at all, of course.
Empty_Masterpiece_74@reddit
How long has MOSAIC been just over the horizon? I wouldn't hold your breath. The industry and the regulators have the power now and they are not going to let that go anytime soon.
Standish_man89@reddit
It’s slated for April 2025 and had already passed through the commenting period.
Empty_Masterpiece_74@reddit
With light sport, you will get the sign offs that you need to do what you want. Fly into controlled space? Get a sign off. You will just get an instructor to sign you off, it is a certification and not a license per say. You will get Certifications signed off by your CFI, not an examiner. That is my take on it. I am not a lawyer though. I believe you will still need to only have 2 people in the plane no matter how many seat it has.
hartzonfire@reddit
As someone mentioned to me before, while getting your LSA hours-tailor them to benefit you for a PPL later. Longer cross countries, etc. There’s probably more but the x-country is the one I remember.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
I think getting a third class medical would be challenging. Nothing that makes me dangerous, but the paperwork and cost burden given my history looks pretty intimidating.
My eventual goal is to be able to fly cross-country, see more of the country, and maybe do a day trip to another city if I want.
There is a school near me that does light sport training in an aeroprakt. I do like that mosaic will likely open up the kinds of aircraft available (assuming they're willing to rent to a LSP).
However, it seems like some of the restrictions on LSP would complicate things. Good planning should prevent needing to fly at night (although it would be nice to have the option,) but it like even with great planning, IMC could arise, and being able to get trained in instrument flying would be much safer.
Would it make sense to do LSP now, continue learning and getting time that would make PPL just a knowledge test and check ride, and worry about medical down the line if I feel too restricted, but risk losing privileges after that time investment?
Just try to figure out the medical now, risk never being eligible for LSP, but possibly gain eligibility for PPL?
Just learn to accept the limits of LSP? Has anyone gone that route and regretted it?
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