Is Canada confronting a birth rate crisis?
Posted by Fragrant-Shock-4315@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 80 comments
Posted by Fragrant-Shock-4315@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 80 comments
Muufffins@reddit
Even if you consider lower birth rates an issue, isn't it a symptom of something deeper?
dumnezero@reddit
It's a symptom of people using their brains and not treating children like assets to accumulate. That's bad if you're a corporation looking for profits via growth. That's good if you have any sense of what "ethics" means. The cheapening of children by forcing them into a miserable existence and watching the infant mortality and childhood poverty shoot up isn't something noble or decent in any way. This is most evident with the notion of making "spares". Don't worry, that's the been the mainstream culture for most of the Holocene, most people uphold it, you're in ~~good~~ numerous company.
CertifiedBiogirl@reddit
No.
Status-Reporter-3946@reddit
The concern about birth rates have a lot more to do with the elites in need for a abundance of cheap work force than other reasons. Religion, white supremacy and pro-life crap are just tools, the goal is the birth of wage slaves.
Anastariana@reddit
Up until automation really bites and structural unemployment hits 20%. Then all the hand wringing articles like this in the corporate press will disappear.
The elites only care about things that affect them. Once they don't need worker drones to keep them in their lives of indolence and luxury they'll cut themselves off from society even more.
kittykatmila@reddit
Sanctuary District’s coming to a town near you 😍
80taylor@reddit
The elites don't care because they can replace births with immigration in Canada. It's sad for everyone living in Canada that many won't get to experience this part of life
AggravatingPoem6748@reddit
Its funny because its the majority numbers that are dropping. Go to some minority dominant neighborhoods its kids EVERYWHERE
Extreme-Kitchen1637@reddit
Mostly because those people are first generation immigrants from high birthrate countries. Second generations suffer from low birth rates. Immigrants from low birthrate nations also tend to have low birthrates.
Nativeborn minorities are not sheltered from reduced fertility to a significant degree unless they are part of an overtly religious environment (amish, hassidic judaism, etc.)
AggravatingPoem6748@reddit
Why does the second generation have such a decline in birth rates??
pajamakitten@reddit
They are slightly removed from their parents' culture and closer to the culture of their birth country. They tend to reject some of the more traditional aspects of their parents' culture, including having loads of kids for the sake of it.
DudeBroBrah@reddit
They become more educated, realize the true expense of a large family, and choose to have fewer or no kids.
AggravatingPoem6748@reddit
Yea maybe living together in villages wouldn’t be soo costly but oh capitalism 😖
evermorecoffee@reddit
And capitalism apologists I guess.
unlock0@reddit
Needing to be a multi millionaire to own a home is killing the west.
Rev-Dr-Slimeass@reddit
It's so frustrating because there are so many solutions. I'm convinced so much of it is zoning. From a purely capitalist perspective there are even solutions. If you look at this in that way, homeless people are a group of people that want a product, a house, but there is no market for them because they can't afford it. Then you look at the size of american apartments and once you get down to a certain size, they just don't get any smaller.
Then we look at countries in Asia that have extremely small apartments. Obviously these aren't particularly comfortable, but they can be cheap. It would keep more people out of homelessness if you offered them. It's so hard to get out of homelessness once you get in it. It would be nice to have at least coffin apartments for people who are down on their luck rather than the street.
downingrust12@reddit
It's not just zoning. Again, it's amalgamation of market forces, corporations, the rich. there should be a limit on corpos and people as to how many properties one can own. I think 2 or 3 properties is more than enough.
Also mandates need to be written to help affordable housing to be built by every builder..there's mcmansions being built in the middle of nowhere...because profit.. that has to change. most of us aren't gonna spit out 6 babies. A 1.5k to 2k sq ft house is perfect.
Rev-Dr-Slimeass@reddit
Very true. I'm just pointing out one major way we could make progress, that i think is in line with some of the most core shared values in the west. Everyone wants the right to do what they will with land they own.
Like every problem, there are lots of variables, and lots of solutions. It's just ironic that the people who claim to support capitalism balk at so many of the solutions, including the capitalist ones.
downingrust12@reddit
But for zoning..you cannot just open up areas... we would build over forests and beautiful areas for what?
And it's not a solution, because there's no limit to how many properties can be owned so getting rid of one thing without regulation, you're back to the same problems
dumnezero@reddit
The US zoning problem concerns already built-up areas. Specifically: suburbia, which is often classified as "urban" instead of "the worst of urban and rural put together in a caricature of bourgeois lifestyle".
Rev-Dr-Slimeass@reddit
In the past we've torn down existing structures to build new ones. If a company can buy block of houses worth 250k for a million, tear them down and build a big building with 100 50k units, that would be a huge profit for them. It would also mean cheaper houses for a lot of people.
This idea of single family homes with a big lawn in the middle of urban areas is unsustainable and car centric. That isn't the future and zoning laws are in the way.
Fickle_Stills@reddit
Portland, Oregon has quite a few buildings of SRO style apartments, however, they're all project based housing so a random poor can't just rent a 100sqft room - you have to be verified as a recovering drug addict (which can and absolutely is faked by social workers to get people housing).
illumi-thotti@reddit
NYC has a rampant domestic violence problem because the housing crisis is so bad people are moving in with people they barely know very quickly and staying in the relationship once the abuse starts because the alternative is homelessness in one of the coldest and most drug-riddled parts of the United States.
It isn't much better in the rest of the country where even studio rentals cost north of $2K a month.
The housing market is so fucked it's literally killing people
Tearakan@reddit
Funny thing is we literally have enough homes/apartments already built for every homeless person in the US. And we have more vacant homes by an order of magnitude than homeless people.
So us not giving everyone shelter is literally on purpose and an economic choice.
dumnezero@reddit
16 Million U.S. Homes Are Sitting Vacant, So Why Are Homes Still So Expensive? (2024) | Today's Homeowner
PaPerm24@reddit
Same with healthcare, hunger and and
YourDementedAunt@reddit
Love this idea! Just not my apartment complex. - Every milf toast NIMBY liberal.
Help_Stuck_In_Here@reddit
That easily describes homelessness in Canada's largest city and most medium cities outside of the greater Vancouver area.
InvertedDinoSpore@reddit
How TF do people survive homelessness in Canada... In the UK it's pretty much nightmare fuel even in the "summer"
Instant_noodlesss@reddit
Last year Calgary lost I think 400 homeless. I wonder how long the homeless who couldn't find their footing again actually survive. 5 years? More?
There are shelters, and they tend to be used more in the winter. But they are getting full. Our foodbanks are running dry as well.
YourDementedAunt@reddit
Were a hardy people.
Top_Hair_8984@reddit
Have to include our smaller cities as well. With housing at an impossible price for average people, where else do they go? More homeless people all the time, from seniors to teens.
dumnezero@reddit
If you say "prevent housing from becoming a commodity or asset", you're a communist.
Welcome to late stage... mass multiplayer MONOPOLY game.
pajamakitten@reddit
Not even a millionaire. Many people on decent wages are priced out because wages have stagnated while property prices have risen. I earn £28k a year (in a highly skilled job at that) but flats in my area start at £300k. As a single person, I could never afford a place of my own. Instead, my mum, my sister and I are buying a house together and living in a multi-generational house.
Zestyclose-Ad-9420@reddit
its what my mum has done after her divorce.
NyriasNeo@reddit
Only if the statement "Needing to be a multi millionaire to own a home" is true. From google, "The median price of a house in the United States in the second quarter of 2024 was $412,300"
A typical down-payment is 20% .. so about $83k. You need an income roughly 1/3 of a house price to afford it (you can make it work at 1/4 ... but let's be conservative here). 1/3 of $412,300 is roughly $137k.
People who make $137k and have roughly $83k in the bank is very very far away from a multi-millionaire. Just to be clear, $137k is quite a bit above the median household income. But my point stands.
edwigenightcups@reddit
As well as needing to make 100k a year to be eligible to rent a 2 bedroom apartment
Ok_Locksmith5884@reddit
People have been saying around the world for decades now:
Rent is too high.
Wages are not enough.
Food is too expensive.
We need more vacation time.
We need enough earned money to save for our future.
If we don't get it, what's the point of continuing?
Are you listening capitalist class or do you still walk around with your heads firmly up your own asses as you always have?
SpliceKnight@reddit
So apparently this article is incredibly lightweight in terms of actual data.
MiserablePlay5003@reddit
Birth rate crisis? Are Canadians having a bunch of babies? because in such an overpopulated planet the only thing I would consider a crisis is for people to keep having babies.
Backlotter@reddit
This whole concept of "birth rate crisis" is super weird.
Is the issue that we're concerned that there aren't enough workers to produce enough for themselves and for the retired workers? Because we are overproducing goods today and I haven't seen any studies that suggest it's an actual problem.
Top_Hair_8984@reddit
Not enough future consumers, they'll need slaves working at poverty wages. That's our worth.
Millennial_on_laptop@reddit
Even the Canadians in the poll are split on if it is a crisis:
Backlotter@reddit
While that is interesting data about whether the public thinks there is a crisis, I want to know from peer reviewed research whether it is a crisis.
Reporters do this all the time and it infuriates me. Is whether people believe something or not more important than investigating whether it is a reality?
Millennial_on_laptop@reddit
How do you determine if something is a crisis in a peer reviewed research way?
If the majority are happy and like the way it is, like the way it's projected to be, how can it be a crisis?
Backlotter@reddit
Frogs slowly boiling in a pot is a crisis for the frogs, regardless if they realize it in the moment.
For peer reviewed research, I would expect findings like "we find a probability of X that production will not meet the demands of the population by year Y" to be considered a "crisis" in common language.
Beginning_Bat_7255@reddit
why anyone would be choose to bring more humans into this overpopulated dying shit show called Earth is such an alien concept.
a_little_hazel_nuts@reddit
The more often these countries complain about low birth rate, the more aware people become to the reasons people have stopped having children. Whether it be the increase in poverty, climate change, or the extreme wealth inequality. If the well-being of humanity was being addressed, we wouldn't be talking about so many people declining to have children.
jaymickef@reddit
Yes, and the first step would be admitting we don’t need constant growth. But that’s a very hard sell in societies controlled by corporations.
Top_Hair_8984@reddit
Yes!
Anastariana@reddit
Capitalism is a ponzi scheme and requires infinite growth. People are scaremongered into believing that anything apart from said endless growth is impossible and disastrous.
GalacticCrescent@reddit
it's kind of a hard sell anywhere that functions under capitalism as we can't maintain this economic system without constant growth
Anastariana@reddit
Its quite funny. People see articles like this then ask themselves 'why AREN'T people having kids?" After a few lines of thought they realise that people can't afford it and the kids have no future.
This sort of article probably accidentally encourages people to be childfree.
ndilegid@reddit
Finally some good news. Less millions to suffer our stupidity
Human-ish514@reddit
Got told I was really entitled when I broke down the $53,000/yr budget in 2005 I would need to be a parent. Look at how the turn tables...
Anastariana@reddit
"You aren't supposed to ask questions! Do as the ownership class demands, peasant!"
BTRCguy@reddit
I find it darkly amusing that consuming less and reducing our load on the planet is considered a "crisis".
Anastariana@reddit
Mindless consumption and creation of more consumers is essential for the 'economy' to keep tottering on.
Citizen_Kano@reddit
Canada doesn't need babies, they can always bring over more Chinese & Indian immigrants
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Flimsy_Island_9812@reddit
The crisis has been averted via mass immigration. Canadians get to die in a ditch of poverty, but we've avoided a recession!
curiousgardener@reddit
My dad sent my husband and I this article on Thanksgiving Sunday, without wishing us a Happy Thanksgiving or inquiring what our plans, if any, were. It was the same across the board from all relatives.
I've noticed they've changed the title since he sent it. It used to read "Sorry parents, but the village it takes to raise a child doesn't exist." It still shows in the original link my dad sent earlier that morning but not if you visit the site.
I have a feeling the original title did not go over that well, as they appear to have ammended it the same day.
This lack of self awareness and empathy on my father's, and by extension an entire generation in society, part is going to sink this country.
And I, for one, have no idea what to do about it except to encourage the next generation to not make the same mistakes I did by falling for the promises that didn't, and are certainly no longer going to pan out.
Millennial_on_laptop@reddit
Lordy. How else do you read that besides "well what it takes to raise a child doesn't exist so I guess I'm not raising a child". It's not something that you just have no choice but to suck it up and do it.
curiousgardener@reddit
My reply was "What an uplifting and supportive article from our village to start the Thanksgiving Sunday 🙏 bless."
He had no response, and I really did not expect one.
A bit like society itself, come to think of it.
I am at the point where collapse isn't a threat so much as a necessary thing. Something, no matter how big or small, must change. We simply cannot run the world the way we are - nor can society continue to function the way it has.
The first world got it wrong, and so did the second and third. Be it socially, economically, or environmentally.
Where the fuck is the reset button. The Romans left it around here somewhere. I just hope it's still working.
BadUncleBernie@reddit
A birth rate crisis is the least of Canada's problems at the moment.
We have much more serious problems that no one is addressing.
Because much like the rest of the world, the rich are exploiting over the massive amount of morons in this country.
Get your camping gear dim wits ... you gonna need it.
HisCricket@reddit
Ffs I am so tired of them phrasing it as it being a crisis just because of birth rate is gone down. Might be a crisis for you but not for the rest of us.
zactbh@reddit
I'm 26, I was born and raised in Canada. At this current moment, buying a house is nothing more than a fantasy, having kids? Absolutely the hell not. Look at the world around us, this isn't a world I wanted for my kids. The rich are destroying young people's futures.
DragonShine@reddit
Don't fall for shitty propaganda!
They say Canada is understaffed/no one wants to work anymore but we have hundreds of people lining up for a min wage job. It's damn hard to land a job here that isn't looking for slaves. They want more workers to compete for lower wages. Immigrants get scammed to come here and outpace our current set ups. We need more time to build up then add more people not the other way around.
They say our birthrates are low, one of my friends had a baby living in a multi roommate situation around the christmas/new years holiday, the landlord lied about their relatives wanting to move in, kicked them all out so they can raise the rent for the next tenant and not have to deal with a baby around the holidays, while THEIR worthless rich over grown sperm would jump on a indoor trampoline (landlords lived above) causing noise for the lower unit.
There's so many homeless people and drugs here. It sometimes feels like I am looking at a scene from the walking dead.
How can adults who feel like the system is killing them want the same situations for their kids?!
WE DO NOT HAVE A BIRTH RATE CRISIS! WE HAVE A HUMANITY CRISIS!
New-Improvement166@reddit
Yup it's this.
Can't blame foreign workers just trying to get by when the boss can hire them at below minimum wage.
Just had a budy of mine notice how all the original staff hired at a new location of "small local business" were being fired or scheduled out of working only to be replaced by new staff from another country who clearly were not told their workers rights.
Remember folks, it's always been a class war.
Deguilded@reddit
I'm convinced somebody saw importing a ton of temporary foreign labor as a bandaid solution to a systemic problem of a top-heavy populace.
Bring in a shitload of people to pay taxes, bring in money, then fuck off back home. A bad solution, but all the real solutions peace'd out a generation ago when we decided to go all in on growth and run everything lean instead of build up resilience, redundancy, and accept maybe things wouldn't grow forever.
We're fucked either way, there are no short term magic bullets.
IndependentElk7267@reddit
Ohmygod I have been saying this for ages. I studied lean manufacturing in my engineering and just thought it was so bizarre when I had the realisation how quickly we will just come to a pause because you can only squeeze so much profits and productivity. Pivoted into software and lean is killing this industry too. It’s actually everywhere and in every facet of work now. Absolutely mind boggling.
Call_It_@reddit
Uh oh….Canadians better force some slaves into existence so it doesn’t all collapse for the rest of us. Don you part, Canada!
KarlMarxButVegan@reddit
Accept some American climate refugees. Problem solved.
Dramatic_Security9@reddit
The real birth rate crises is when the rate is above 2.1! It's only a crises for the economists.
CertifiedBiogirl@reddit
Oh boy fascism
chaseinger@reddit
if only there were other people who have more babies, and if only those people wanted to come here and add to the demographic amd economic stability....
Thedogsnameisdog@reddit
To drive wealth inequality in the 80s and 90s we offshored everything we could. Now we are bringing in temporary foreign workers here.
No one can afford a family - degrowth is here.
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This thread addresses overpopulation, a fraught but important issue that attracts disruption and rule violations. In light of this we have lower tolerance for the following offenses:
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This is an abbreviated summary of the mod team's statement on overpopulation, view the full statement available in the wiki.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/Fragrant-Shock-4315:
Canada has joined the world’s lowest fertility countries. This group also includes South Korea, Italy and Japan.
Some think a lack of population rejuvenation will have drastic consequences on the country’s stability.
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1g4by2b/is_canada_confronting_a_birth_rate_crisis/ls2840a/
Fragrant-Shock-4315@reddit (OP)
Canada has joined the world’s lowest fertility countries. This group also includes South Korea, Italy and Japan.
So is this a problem?
Experts, women and Canadians at large disagree.
Some think a lack of population rejuvenation will have drastic consequences on the country’s stability.
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