After U.S.A., what’s the next best major country in terms of salaries in terms of CS/IT job market?
Posted by Notalabel_4566@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 58 comments
Hello,
I recently came back from Ireland to India after working there for 2.7 years and now I am currently working for a year as a developer. After USA and Ireland, what’s the next country with the best job market? What are some of the underrated countries that have marginally good/better job market?
itsthekumar@reddit
Respectfully for you it's not about "what's the best country", but the best one who will give you a visa to work.
You can try Australia/Canada. Probably also UK/Netherlands.
wishiwasthisperson@reddit
At the moment Germany is a big no no
Anxious-Tangerine982@reddit
What makes Germany a big no no?
emmyy616@reddit
I want to know too
Top-Half7224@reddit
Australia and UK are two of the most difficult countries to get visas for....
jazzyjeffla@reddit
No it isn’t…
itsthekumar@reddit
They're much easier than other countries esp for an Indian national.
emmyy616@reddit
Australia probably
eurogamer206@reddit
A lot of people saying Netherlands but I disagree, even with the 30% ruling (which btw is no longer 5 years). Husband and I both work in tech and even with the ruling, our take home is MUCH less. Husband is a software engineer with 12 years experience and earns less than half his salary on the West Coast U.S.
SJP26@reddit
Do you know what the cost of living is on the west coast of the US? It's half of the Netherlands. Also, the 27% ruling is from 2027 for 5 yrs so I don't understand why you are saying it is no longer 5 yrs. Read this link
https://business.gov.nl/running-your-business/staff/terms-of-employment/the-30-ruling-for-your-foreign-employees-in-the-netherlands/
eurogamer206@reddit
Exactly. The 30% is being reduced.
SJP26@reddit
It is reduced to 27% but it is still 5 yrs. You just negotiate a higher salary to offset the 3% reduction
gastro_psychic@reddit
Why did you move from the west coast of the US?
eurogamer206@reddit
I started my job search the day the Supreme Court overturned Roe v Wade. Got fed up with the politics and gun violence and lack of a social safety net.
may_be_indecisive@reddit
Because the US is ass?
Low_Cat7155@reddit
The question was besides the US
eurogamer206@reddit
I know that. I was commenting in response to the other comments that the Netherlands was the next best thing. Which I disagree with.
TALead@reddit
As others have said, Switzerland is probably next (and its close) in terms of compensation for IT though it is VERY expensive to live in Switzerland. After that, Singapore or Hong Kong may be next for salaries and in these countries, you have more flexibility in terms of cost of living.
NotAnLLMTrustMeBro@reddit
Switzerland has a ridiculous immigration system as well. I was encouraged to apply for a couple of PhD positions in Zurich but my European colleagues and the internet did a good job of warning me that it's notoriously difficult to stay in Switzerland after completing a PhD.
zhongomer@reddit
The job market in Singapore and Hong Kong in IT is near inexistent and the pay is bad in absolute terms as well as relative to cost of living.
Singapore and Hong Kong are decent places if you are a quant but that is about it. Even then, other places would have more jobs and pay better for quants too
RexManning1@reddit
SG is high COL.
gojira_glix42@reddit
Singapore flexibility in col? It's expensive everywhere there. China - well, that's a whole other story depending on what city you're in. And idk if I would try living there with the massive social control by government changed enacted recently.
TALead@reddit
HK is still different than China though that difference is getting smaller by the day. Both HK and Singapore have low income tax rates and you can choose to live like a local (vs as an expat) and save some money compared to Switzerland. The US is by far the best option though if you can get a visa because you can earn a lot while living in MCOL locations
Professional_Elk_489@reddit
Switzerland
carnivorousdrew@reddit
Forget about ever owning a decent house though. It's rent for life.
may_be_indecisive@reddit
So?
carnivorousdrew@reddit
Not everyone wants to rent, some people want to own. So when legislature changes, because it DOES change, and landlords get the upper hand and tenants are less covered, the people who own are not fucked. So?
may_be_indecisive@reddit
I don’t know Switzerland’s dwelling laws and regulations, but not every country is the USA. Some places like in Vienna, much of the housing is co-ops, so there isn’t any need to buy your own place. I’ve never heard of this dystopian fiction you mention where somehow there will be a law enacted that will forcibly remove people from their homes.
Not every situation is landlord/tenant, and we also have things like rent control - which again, ive never heard of a place in history that has ever removed rent control from a current property. It’s NEVER retroactive. Just for new units.
Delicious-Sale6122@reddit
Eventually all cities with ‘rent control’ have to remove it. Rent control causes decay of the properties and the cities.
Lisbon, Buenos Aires etc…
Nerioner@reddit
Dutch cities are expanding it. No one "have to remove it", its just that politicians are lazy fucks and want one bill to solve all problems so they can play europa universalis and reality doesn't work that way
wanderingdev@reddit
My friends who work in Zurich bought a house in Interlaken. So it's not necessarily rent for life.
Professional-Soup867@reddit
Similar for tech hubs in the US though, can't own a house in the bay area/seattle/nyc without several million
carnivorousdrew@reddit
Yeah but you can easily buy under the same federal tax law in the rest of the US. Like with a remote job in Switzerland it is still no house.
Professional-Soup867@reddit
I see. So no LCOL places to settle if you had a remote job. Thanks
carnivorousdrew@reddit
There are if you like asbestos and abandoned villages made out of asbestos.
SJP26@reddit
I have seen in many cases. Indians find it challenging to land in a job. Especially in the tech sector. Why is that?
syf81@reddit
Switzerland and maybe the Netherlands, but since it’s IT, better to just get a remote job and live in a low cost country.
adrianb@reddit
Don’t forget it’s the 27% ruling now.
snowflake_212@reddit
What is 27% ruling?
0thedarkflame0@reddit
27% ( used to be 30%) of your salary is excluded from tax calculations. You also don't need to declare your non-NL assets, and aren't taxed on them. Finally, as a little added bonus, you get a drivers licence exchange if you're from certain countries.
It's how NL can afford to keep importing skilled labour at cheap rates.
Also has some weird impacts for things like housing permits. There's some places where you need to prove you earn less than a threshold to be eligible for living in the area... Weirdly it uses your taxable gross income, that 30/27% is neatly excluded... Not that it matters with the housing shortage you'll never get the place anyway, but it is interesting.
SJP26@reddit
I wonder how Ireland is attracting talent without any tax incentive, no housing, and no public transport, lol. Ireland is a total shit show at the moment.
snowflake_212@reddit
Ty for the info! Interesting stuff for sure!
2PAK4U@reddit
Netherlands job market is very bad and conservative rn (esp for non EU citizens). I had a search year visa for one year and couldnt find anything..
syf81@reddit
You’re right, I didn’t notice OP only had a year experience, the market is only decent for experienced people not for starters.
2PAK4U@reddit
I’m pretty sure its the same for Switzerland too.. I did my bachelors in Netherlands but still no luck
Rustykilo@reddit
Maybe Canada? I heard they are pretty open to giving away visas too.
gojira_glix42@reddit
They just started the most aggressive and open hb1 visa policy in history. They're desperate for skilled workers rn.
may_be_indecisive@reddit
We’re desperate for any pulse. It’s a scam by Liberal government to inflate housing prices.
orlandoaustin@reddit
I think this is the wrong question.
Your question relates to visas.
I bet you will choose an English speaking country.
Simple.
If not. HK or Singapore. Will you? Na.
nod0xdeadbeef@reddit
Where in the three modal salary distribution? It could well be Switzerland, Germany, The Netherlands, The UK, or Singapore, depending on where you are looking at.
temp_gerc1@reddit
Why did you leave Ireland just out of curiosity?
LyleLanleysMonorail@reddit
Canada. Canadians will downvote me because "Canada bad" is the trend these days, but compared to the rest of the world that is not the US, their tech job market is quite good.
It benefits from having the US as its neighbor. AI is a growth sector for the foreseeable future, and a lot of AI research and some of the world's best AI researchers (including the Nobel Prize winning Geoff Hinton) is based out of Canada.
GeneracisWhack@reddit
What about The Netherlands?
negligent_advice@reddit
This is great if you work for a US tech company with almost US comp in NL. Local tech companies pay a lot less.
m_b_x@reddit
Switzerland in terms of salaries
Outrageous-Garlic-27@reddit
Job market not great here right now mind. Especially for 3rd country nationals.
im-here-for-tacos@reddit
In terms of salaries? Switzerland, possibly Norway and Denmark closely behind as well.
In terms of actual job market, they're all pretty rough right now (including the US). I'd check and see which companies/industries investors are still piling money into and check which markets those companies are based out of.
HVP2019@reddit
If we are to speak only about good job market
there is absolutely dire shortage of IT workers ( or any labor ) in Russia.