Israeli strike on hospital tent camp kills 4 and ignites a fire that burns dozens

Posted by Phenergan_boy@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 411 comments

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Unable_Duck9588@reddit

I saw the videos for this. There’s a guy you can clearly see attached to an IV bag and he slowly burns to death, maybe he was already dead from the lack of oxygen, but you clearly see his head and hand move as it burns.

I’ve seen people on various subreddits claiming the video was edited, “pallywood in action” was frequently brought up.

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Yeahhh_Nahhhhh@reddit

I never said it was much worse in an individual sense. I was saying that western involvement in the region and the general othering of people in those regions over the last few decades has meant it’s easy for some to discredit the suffering in those regions. It also created tensions on domestic levels, but that is different.

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Unable_Duck9588@reddit

There are definitely a lot of people that just love that people on the otherside of the globe are dying. I guess they feel better about themselves.

That's all they've ever been. Hamas was founded in 1987 as a resistance group to Israeli occupation. Hezbollah was founded in 1982 for the same reason.

If they weren't stealing land and torturing the locals with inhumane conditions, none of us would have ever heard of either group.

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cryptedsky@reddit

They keep saying they're trying the same strategy of hurting the locals enough for them to turn on the local armed groups even though it never works. My reading is that they've actually been trying a "drain the sea" strategy where they just start killing anybody in the area in hopes of putting so much pressure on the population that they leave, leaving only members of the armed group without "the water" to hide in and get local support from. It's an immoral, desperate and very ineffective strategy. The craziest thing is they never even tried investigative work to actually bait and catch the people who organised oct. 7th. They just started massively bombing everything immediately.

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Nice__Spice@reddit

Oct 7 became a reason for a land grab.

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axeteam@reddit

I think the mistake here is thinking they need a reason in the first place. Land grab is essentially what the so called settlers are for.

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juliuspepperwoodchi@reddit

Oct 7th is Israel's 9/11, a giant tragedy they will exploit for years to come as an excuse for them and their military to do whatever they please.

Change my mind.

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Motorboater99@reddit

It’s weird to me how people keep comparing bad things that happen to the Israel or the US as a 9/11 (e.g. this attack was the equivalent of 10 9/11s!!!) but then when taking into account the damage to Palestinians, Iraqis or afghans we never use the 9/11 barometer.

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juliuspepperwoodchi@reddit

but then when taking into account the damage to Palestinians, Iraqis or afghans we never use the 9/11 barometer.

I mean, speak for yourself?

I was making a SPECIFIC comparison here. Not in terms of how "bad" the attack was, or in terms of body counts, or anything like that.

I was comparing how these two terrorist attacks, which arguably the governments of the countries targeted by each knew about before the attacks (that is not to say that they could've stopped it, but the possibility existed), have both been used as justification for all manner of murder by said governments.

That's it.

Israelis burned through what good faith I had for them between 1987 and 2010

What did they do to lose your good faith? Was it the multiple peace offers that Palestinians have always rejected? Was it the retreat from Lebanon and Gaza?

hold to agreements like the Oslo accords and Resolution 1701

Palestinians have not agreed to the rest of the Oslo accords, and the people that signed the first phase are no longer in power. Hamas now has no interest in the accords. Why should Israel follow them and give Palestinians more freedom if they only use that freedom to ramp up attacks on Israel? See Gaza.

And Israel did follow resolution 1701. What part did they not fulfill?

you would have a lot less hostile factions for Iran to puppet against you but that's counterintuitive for the Nehatanyu government

You can make that argument, but you are ignoring that this conflict started long before the Netanyahu government, and Netanyahu was out of power for 10 years between 1999 and 2009. One of the major reasons Netanyahu got back into power was because the retreat from Gaza backfired so spectacularly.

Maybe instead of killing 43k+ Palestinians in Gaza you go lynch the actual threats to your country Nehatanyu, Smotrich, Givir, Gallant and company.

These assholes being in power are the direct result of the ongoing Palestinian attacks. Why do you think there is no left wing majority in Israel? Israel has tried making peace many times and it has always backfired. Without the ongoing attacks, the right wing would be voted out immediately. Most Israelis hate them too, but they have no confidence that peace is possible.

You have such a one sided view of this issue and give Palestinians no agency. In order for this to end, Palestinians need to embrace peaceful resistance. Just like Northern Ireland did, or what happened in India. The good Friday agreement only became possible once the IRA laid down their weapons. Palestinians are clearly the weaker party here, and fighting will just lead to more innocent deaths. The fighting on the Palestinian side must stop, and they need leaders that actually want peace with Israel. No such leadership exists today, they are all in on an existential fight for all or nothing.

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TheIrishBread@reddit

1987 IDF tankers killed Irish Peacekeepers in Lebanon, claimed accident, but it's very hard to accidentally hit a marked UN position with a tank.

2010 Mossad uses forged Irish passports to commit an assassination in UAE.

You talk about the people in power during the Oslo accords not being there yet this is partly incorrect, Fatah still engages in the PA in the WB which despite phase one of Oslo stating that settlements would end they have continued, Gaza is run by Hamas due to Likuds encouragement in an attempt to cause Palestinian disunity and look where that's landed them, they also tacitly encouraged Israeli ultranationalists to assassinate Rabin which again is another domino set in motion that led to today.

You haven't stopped incursions into Lebanese airspace to start in regards to 1701.

The current conflict goes back post Oslo because engaging in bad faith and trying to deliberately cause infighting and engaging in bad faith was never going to work and Likud knew this.

1999-2001 was the last government that didn't have Likud as a majority vote as part of a coalition.

The assholes being in power has been the plan since the assassination of Rabin. They have vested interests in keeping tensions high and postponing normalization as it means the have an "other" to point to and demonise. (Sounds familiar don't it).

You say I have a onesided view that gives Palestinians no agency that's because even before oct7 they had no agency. Until they achieve statehood and have guarantees that what's happening in Lebanon and has happened in Gaza and the West bank won't happen again they have no choice incentive to engage with you as historically Israel has negotiated in complete bad faith (not saying PLO wasn't unreasonable either) and is known to get away with breaking international law. Your word is as valuable as the paper it's written on.

You have given the GFA a cursory glance and saw the word disarm, I would like to remind you peaceful resistance was tried until 1971 and then the BA killed civilians and it wouldn't be until the PIRA went after banking institutions in the UK in Canary Wharf etc that the UK would come to the negotiations table so unless you want a string of car bombs targeting Israeli financial institutions, civilians (both directly via death toll and indirectly by causing paranoia and panic) and Military bases I'd be very careful what your next words are.

The difference is that the folks who defend this kind of thing insist that, variously: there are no innocent children, it’s not real, it’s not real but they would deserve it, etc.

The Palestinians simply aren’t human in the eyes of Israel’s government. That’s all. That’s the difference, it’s why this keeps happening.

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Unable_Duck9588@reddit

My answer is always that it would also be horrible if the reverse were true.

Yes the Iron dome prevents a lot of rockets from landing, but just becsuse it does doesn’t mean that you can kill all these innocent people as revenge for a hypothetical situation where the rockets do make it.

“Should Israel not respond to these attacks”, it sure can, but not like this… this is a whole different level.

This attitude has not helped quell attacks for decades now, and will not help for decades to come, and yet we see the same thing being done over and over again.

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GalacticMe99@reddit

Your second paragraph seems to switch statements halfway through.

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Unable_Duck9588@reddit

No it doesn’t

“They could kill us if we don’t kill them first” is genocidal speech.

Its what every genocidal force uttered before comencing their genocide.

Bombing these people into submission hasn’t worked for 80 years, and won’t work for another 80.

Unless everyone dies.

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GalacticMe99@reddit

Yes the Iron dome prevents a lot of rockets from landing, but just becsuse it does

This seems to suggest that just because they can, it doesn't mean that Israel should act any differently than if they couldn't.

doesn’t mean that you can kill all these innocent people as revenge for a hypothetical situation where the rockets do make it.

Then the rest of the paragraph says the opposite.

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Unable_Duck9588@reddit

No, you’re just trying to find different meanings to support your view that bombing palestinians en masse is the only option.

Just because Israel can defend itself with the Iron Dome, doesn’t make it ok to bomb civilians close to where rockets were launched.

Maybe try giving people under your occupation a chance at life other than everything else you’ve been doing for the last 80 years.

Bombing tens of thousands every few years will not work.

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GalacticMe99@reddit

Have a look at my comment history if reading in within your reading comprehension and throw that accusation into my face once more.

I was simply pointing out that your comment was written funky. There was no mention of view mentioned in any of it.

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Unable_Duck9588@reddit

I don’t believe i wrote it in a strange way, but I understand if you don’t agree with the way I presented my argument.

As for the aggression, I may have jumped the gun, people keep bringing up bad faith arguments all the time and I’m a little jaded.

Are you really going off based internet comments ?

Get out more

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GalacticMe99@reddit

The US is an expensive place to get out to.

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Zipz@reddit

One more time.

I'm dead serious. I'm happy to watch Nazis get blown up, ISIS get blown up, Russians get blown up, and DEFINITELY down to see Hamas get roasted alive.

Aboriginal_landlord@reddit

Too bad so sad, why doesn't HAMAS just release the hostages if they want this to stop? Is HAMAS would stop using civilian centres and human shields maybe Palestinians wouldn't get blown up as frequently?

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xBTx@reddit

Too bad so sad

As silly as this person is, the above quote serves as a pretty good TL;DR for the pro-Israel position in these sorts of cases

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Aboriginal_landlord@reddit

Typical Redditor ignoring the my comment just to substitute their reality

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xBTx@reddit

Your silly comment was pretty straightforward, and a common position too as I mentioned

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Ok. So I'm going to substitute a few words here to apply your statements to a similar scenario.

Let's say there's an active school shooter in America, and the US Army is weighing the possibility of blowing up the school to neutralize the terrorist threat.

Who's at fault? The terrorist for using a human shield or the person targeting the terrorist?

"Who's at fault? The school shooter for using a human shield or the US Army targeting the terrorist?"

It's undeniable that HAMAS is deliberately causing as many civilian casualties as possible.

"It's undeniable that the school shooters are deliberately causing as many civilian casualties as possible."

The next two statements would apply after they bomb the school:

I just think it's ridiculous to pin the blame in Israel for this situation.

"I just think it's ridiculous to blame the US Army in this situation "

why aren't you blaming HAMAS?

"Why aren't you blaming the school shooter?"

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Aboriginal_landlord@reddit

So you craft your own bizarre situation instead of just answering the question?

Comparing a school shooter to a literal army of terrorists who's public goal is genocide, that's some ridiculous mental gymnastics. I guess it's Israel's fault as well HAMAS is attacking and stealing humanitarian aid trucks?

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xBTx@reddit

Of course it would be abhorrent for the US Army to bomb civilian children to neutralize a terrorist. You'd have to be fairly psychopathic or naive to the point of a mental deficiency to greenlight that sort of action.

And that's generally how I view people who support the line of thinking you're offering here

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unkemp7@reddit

I would say it doesn't matter if the video was edited or fake. The way to stop things like this from happening is don't put your weapons caches in or next to hospitals so you use your civilian population as a cheat code to try and save your weapons.

The sounds of all the small arms ammo cooking off in the videos wasn't faked, so it was a legitimate military target that sadly Hamas specifically chose so Israel had to choose between. Let them kill more of our people with the weapons they are hiding behind their own people, or deal with the images of what Hamas forced us to do. I think Israel chose right and hopefully someday Hamas will stop using it's people that way only the people who want to fight get to die

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Unable_Duck9588@reddit

We don’t know of that was the sound of cooking ammo, amd even if it was, it still doesn’t justify the death and bombing of innocent people.

Unable_Duck9588@reddit

I have a lot of Lebanese and Palestinian friends, all of the are dual nationals or live in gulf countries, so they share a lot of vidoes they get from people they know.

Al Jazeera and middle east eye are biased sources, but they do show the reality of these videos. I really think dismissing everything as propaganda is wrong, it’s worth reviewing the footage and coming to your own conclusion.

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I don’t agree with that theory at all

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sfharehash@reddit

Israel has nothing more to gain from its current strategy.

I think it is clear that elements of Israeli society and political leadership see an opportunity to reestablish settlements in the Gaza strip (and some may believe Israel has claim to the Lebanese portion of Upper Galilee).

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AzorJonhai@reddit

Enough with the “greater israel” bullshit.

so fun how y'all cling to the idea of secondary explosions. israel are so good at finding the few places in the world where there are no flammables other than terrorist weapons.

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slickweasel333@reddit

I guess if you don't know about explosions, they all look the same to you. You don't think a hospital laden with bullets sounds fishy to you? You can hear the bullets going off in the second half.

https://youtu.be/SMr96RcZFZU?si=tGL8QPfewLenBX_W

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vemeron@reddit

I don't see a bombed hospital and immediately go to ah yes it's bullets cooking off rather then day oh I don't know epical equipment cooking off.

Which seems more likely at a HOSPITAL?

would you look at a fire in a gun store and go "obviously that's all oxygen tanks tanks exploding?"

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slickweasel333@reddit

I didn't immediately say that. I went out and looked for the video footage and then came to conclusions based off the evidence. We know Hamas uses hospitals and clinics in Gaza and the West Bank. None of this should be news to you.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestinian_Violence/s/7WgOrnHIch

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WintonWintonWinton@reddit

You do realize ammo cooking off doesn't sound the same as gunshots right

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vemeron@reddit

I do but I've heard rounds cook off before

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allprologues@reddit

thanks but i'm not deferring to anyone on what sounds fishy that frequents r/combatfootage where you get hundreds of downvotes for any comment that isn't textually spanking it to death and destruction. but i'm glad you have somewhere where you can pretend to be an analyst.

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slickweasel333@reddit

No one who goes to r/combatfootage is trustworthy because we all love destruction?

Oh gotcha, it's an answer you don't like, got it.

Without any evidence for this we should expect things in hospitals to blow up when bombed.

lol

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MightFail_Tal@reddit

I don’t understand what’s funny. I think if you bombed my house you’d get at least one secondary explosion. Like do you know how ignition works. Have you heard of fuel reserves and do you have a sense of how hospital fuel is likely to be stored in Gaza. Even without fuel cyliinders there’s a lot of flammable in any hospital

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Ok_Yak_1844@reddit

To add to this. Ambulances have a tendency to explode and/or catch on fire more frequently than people probably think and with the need or being shot or bombed first.

I’m sorry, but u/mightfail_tal is not the judge/jury Israel has to worry about. They do not have to justify their actions to you or anyone on TikTok. History has proven that literally the smallest detail they got wrong will be hyper focused and spun into negative PR anyway (like the mistranslation of the calendar).

To reinforce a point that you continue to show a lack of comprehension for, neither me nor u/slickweasel333 have concluded nothing wrong happened here. We merely acknowledge that the situation Hamas creates with their tactics makes this much more complex, and refuse to instantly draw conclusions

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MightFail_Tal@reddit

Let’s discuss this chart. They invaded a hospital. As evidence to justify their invasion they presented a chart. That chart was mistranslated. So they had no justification right? also how do you think an army that has been brutalising a population of Arabic speakers for 70+ years translate the days of the week on such an important video. You think they didn’t have people who spoke Arabic on hand? ‘Smallest detail’ LOL literally the main supporting evidence in a video they released

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chi_city_@reddit

Omg stop with this bs. You are intentionally trying to mislead people.

The gall of you folks.

I absolutely cannot wait to see how badly this will end up turning out for you psychopaths when all truth comes to light

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If that’s your takeaway from my words, that’s an indictment of your own reasoning/reading skills

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frizzykid@reddit

You literally are saying that we don't have the evidence to suggest something, but Israel does. Your post literally implies we need to believe that Israel's strike was legitimate because you assume they had some sort of evidence to suggest it.

And regardless if the evidence does or doesn't exist: how the fuck do we justify bombing a hospital full of people to get said members of hamas?

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bnyc18@reddit

Not my post does not explicitly or implicitly imply either of those things. You really are revealing your inability to conduct yourself rationally.

And to address your second point, the article in the OP even says that there were secondary explosions involved in the fires, which may or may be Hamas weapons. It is an absolute fact that a previous fire at a Rafa camp was started after Hamas launched rockets from the site, Israel then bombed the site, and the fire started after. If you don’t see how that situation could be the case based on the article’s acknowledgment of secondary explosions, than you’re only furthering your obtuse reasoning here. And yes, in that other example in Rafah, I put the resulting civilians deaths on Hamas, not Israel.

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frizzykid@reddit

which may or may be Hamas weapons.

Bro wild once again you are implicitly claiming what I said before. Secondary explosions can be from a lot of things, like fuel for generators cause you know this was a hospital operating in Gaza.

you've shown your inability to conduct yourself rationally

Weird I'm not the one telling people to assume be reasonable and not jump to conclusions except unless they happen to be concluding it's hamas.

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bnyc18@reddit

Obviously this was a typo, as it was “may or may not be.” Which is what I said from the start. The whole point is WE DONT KNOW. I’ve said that over and over, and you keep trying to insist that I’ve reached a conclusion. I have not. You are simply not engaging in a good faith convo at all!

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Oppopity@reddit

Isn't that a problem?

If a hospital gets bombed we SHOULD know if Hamas was there and we SHOULD know that care for minimising civilian deaths was taken and that military gain was proportional.

Hamas would've never existed if 750k Palestinians weren't displaced by Jewish militias that became the IDF, so the answer is the IDF.

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BabyJesus246@reddit

Sound like you will excuse any atrocity committed by hamas. I can't imagine thinking that storing missiles in a hospital would ever be justified yet here you are doing that exact thing. Just pathetic

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Tautou_@reddit

Not sure who you are arguing with because I never said any of that, but if it it helps you work through whatever it is you're going through, please do continue.

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BabyJesus246@reddit

No offense, but someone who advocates for hiding weapons in a hospital has absolutely no claim for the moral high ground.

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AniTaneen@reddit

I can’t tell if you are using Brutha as a slang for brother/homie/buddy

Or if you meant bruta, as in Spanish for brute.

I’m not really contributing to the discourse, it’s just that adhd and linguistics seem to go hand in hands sometimes and my Adderall needs to be refilled.

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Vegetable-College-17@reddit

More than likely slang, the second one seems a bit farfetched.

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PartySr@reddit

Hamas that, hamas that hamas that.

Are hamas under my bed too? I'm afraid, please tell me cuz I don't want to become a sacrifice like those poor souls who died at the hands of IOF because "it might be a chance".

Most of the ammunition is tank ammunition, but also artillery, mortar and rocket shells, but there were less of them.

https://uacrisis.org/en/60903-key-facts-kalynivka

Kind of disingenuous to compare an explosion where you can see secondary rockets shooting off to an instance of small arms fire being cooked in a fire. But if you would've been closer (you wouldn't want to. That fire burned for a few days if I recall), you'd hear any small arms ammunition cooking off as well.

This is what ammunition cooking off sounds like, and lines up with what we heard in the AP video.

https://youtu.be/TDYMcrb54t4?si=ppCaRzKGe_bjC_Dt

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PartySr@reddit

There are big explosions in your video and IDF haven't provided any evidence so far. There are people burning while hooked up on IV in the place that they "stored the ammunition.

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beefprime@reddit

Wild how Hezbollah won't fire anywhere near UNIFIL positions or on Christian communities that Israeli invaders are actively using as human shields, but when Israel sees a hospital filled with wounded, it sees a target (and that's accepting at face value your claim here). Most moral army, I guess.

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slickweasel333@reddit

What are you talking about? The IDF has located multiple Hezbollah infrastructure and weapons located in close range of UNIFIL outposts.

Jump to 08:51 for video evidence

https://youtu.be/b3pXTTr5ppM?si=O5WDKUkTu1ZabiuN

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livejamie@reddit

That's not evidence it's a random WarPorn YouTuber, but regardless, how is locating shit near something the same as firing on it?

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slickweasel333@reddit

Warporn? Where is he celebrating any of this?

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livejamie@reddit

Dude has millions of followers covering war on social media, but feel free to answer my question.

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slickweasel333@reddit

So does any news outlet that also is on social media. And he isn't manipulating the video footage. So you can't really go the attack the messenger route.

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livejamie@reddit

So does any news outlet that also is on social media.

Correct.

So again, how does having supplies near something equate to firing on it?

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slickweasel333@reddit

Wild how Hezbollah won't fire anywhere near UNIFIL positions or near Christian communities that Israeli invaders are actively using as human shields

They said IDF was using the UN and Christian communities as human shields.

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livejamie@reddit

/u/beefprime's response to you was that Hezbollah won't fiere near UNIFIL positions or Christian communities.

You responded with a random YouTuber that found "Hezbollah infrastructure and weapons located in close range of UNIFIL outposts"

How are those the same thing?

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slickweasel333@reddit

There was also video of Hezbollah firing in the same video.

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livejamie@reddit

Can you link to a credible news source reporting it?

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Lol the loser you're replying to has a username named for the children's anime Naruto, just so you know the quality of your opponent

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Kurama99z@reddit

As I said, this information is crucial, because now I can sleep in peace knowing that Israel only targets terrorists and none other

https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/us-doctors-recount-horrors-of-children-shot-in-the-head-in-g

These kids must‘ve been terrorists as well, the possibility that Israel actually doesn‘t care about civilian life can‘t exist, right? I want to continue sleeping in peace and living in ignorance, so please tell me that this possibility is out of the table

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slickweasel333@reddit

Whataboutism.

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Kurama99z@reddit

How exactly is that whataboutism? I represent the stance that Israel doesn‘t care about civilians, I then link you an article about US doctors telling the stories they saw, supporting my initial claim. It is now up to you to debunk them.

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slickweasel333@reddit

Lol the claim here is an innocent hospital was attacked with no hamas. Yet OP is saying the hospital wasn't a legitimate target because the Hamas inside were not fighting

More than that, are they active combatants. These are the questions you have to think about

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You argued that I have the burden to prove my claim, and I'm asking about what burden OP has to prove his claim, seeing as he's potentially defending the actions of Hamas while also spreading unconfirmed rumors about this attack.

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Kurama99z@reddit

Ammos being inside the tents doesn’t justify burning civilians alive. That‘s the whole point. Israel doesn’t care about the civilians, that‘s my whole point. I then linked you an article of an US doctor supporting this stance.

I don’t know if you realised but Israel turned the whole Gaza stripe into a warzone, how can you say „Well there was ammunition in the tents, so these people are bad, and therefore deserve to die, as they are possible terrorists“

Like get a hold of yourself, are these people not allowed to wear guns with them, to defend themselves? We already saw how IDF soldiers are fine with raping, so how is it immoral to carry guns but moral to just FUCKING BURN THE WHOLE TENT DOWN??????

People like you make me so unbelievably sick.

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slickweasel333@reddit

Well there was ammunition in the tents, so these people are bad, and therefore deserve to die, they are possible terrorists"

Stop putting words in my mouth. I didn't say that because you would be quoting me if I had.

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Kurama99z@reddit

You don‘t need to say that 1:1 for you to mean it

Or what are we discussing here? Do you agree with me?

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Come on man. Excusing every inhumanity with but Hamas has run its course everywhere but worldnews.

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MightFail_Tal@reddit

Wait when was whether there was a secondary explosion ever a point of contention?!? You should have expected those REGARDLESS of the presence of munitions

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slickweasel333@reddit

I'm not in worldnews. They mentioned the secondaries in the linked article, and you can hear them for yourself in this AP reporting

https://youtu.be/SMr96RcZFZU?si=tGL8QPfewLenBX_W

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Unable_Duck9588@reddit

This video for sure shows secondary explosions and people running away.

Then you’re right I’m wrong, its good they were all bombed. This makes it legitimate.

Israel should continue bombing everywhere and killing everyone. This makes it ok.

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slickweasel333@reddit

Hey man, don't take it out on me. OP is the one suggesting that the Hamas members inside could not be targeted.

More than that, are they active combatants. These are the questions you have to think about

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Unable_Duck9588@reddit

Unless you think that it’s ok to bomb these people because maybe hamas, I’m not taking anything out of you.

But I was wrong about there being no sources of secondary explosions, that much is true.

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I guess you’re right, we should bomb every inch.

That’ll show em.

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Its kinda amazing you’re ok with people dying for people like Bibi.

There will be a lot more Israelis dying if this continues, including innocents. An escalation won’t be like shooting fish in a barrel… and if Israel continues with this, it will escalate.

Innocents dying isn’t good no matter on which side.

Although I will admit, Israels enemies are better at targetting military targets than Israel.

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WintonWintonWinton@reddit

Its kinda amazing you’re ok with people dying for people like Bibi.

There will be a lot more Israelis dying if this continues, including innocents. An escalation won’t be like shooting fish in a barrel… and if Israel continues with this, it will escalate.

If you want to cope about an Israeli defeat by all means. People said similar things before Israel went into Gaza, people said similar things before Israel went into Lebanon.

I prefer to deal in facts. As for Bibi? Yeah I don't like him as do most Israelis, but the facts are that most Israelis support the war.

As is the fact that most Palestinians support Hamas unfortunately. What's telling is that survey results show support in the West Bank for Hamas is way higher since Oct 7 and Israel's operations in Gaza - giving hope that deradicalization is possible.

Innocents dying isn’t good no matter on which side.

Although I will admit, Israels enemies are better at targetting military targets than Israel.

Perhaps it's because the IDF doesn't operate from hospitals and schools? Israels enemies will genocide the Jewish population if they ever win, make no mistake.

Innocents dying isn’t good no matter on which side.

Of course. But who is innocent? Who is complicit?

True innocents die in every conflict. That is war, and that is why war isn't good. Failure to think about the alternatives, and what comes without the use of force leaves you with a kindergarten understanding of the world.

Would it be better if everyone in Israel and Palestine united in one state and held hands and sang Kumbaya and never killed each other again? Of course.

Does elucidating that vision have any bearing on reality or is it helpful to understanding processes towards peace or ending any current human suffering? No.

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Unable_Duck9588@reddit

Well, if things don’t change, Israel will eventually get its war.

Maybe you live in the region and you think you’ll be fine, or maybe you live in NA or Europe and think it won’t affect you… but war will come to Israel soon, and it will be ugly for all of us.

Noone wins in war… but you’ll see soon enough.

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WintonWintonWinton@reddit

Noone wins in war… but you’ll see soon enough.

Nobody wins in war, but war comes to you even if you don't want it. That's life.

It's not inevitable. Say post Gaza conflict, and Lebanon we have a weakened Hezbollah and Hamas, Israel continues on their path of normalization where is war coming from? Iran? The sky?

There's a reason why Oct 7 happened before it did, because the normalization process was coming, and the Palestinians had few advocates left for them any more.

They 1000% deserve better, but they won't get it with guns.

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Unable_Duck9588@reddit

Nothing really started on oct 7th, Israel has never known peace, and at this rate, never will know peace.

War doesn’t have to come to everybody, but the Israeli government will ensure that it will always stay with Israel.

Eventually this will lead to disaster for all of us. It’s easy for you to talk now while barely affected by anything, but when escalation does happen because of Bibi’s brinksmanship, it will eventually make all of our lives miserable.

Enjoy your one sided war. Unless things change, it won’t last.

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WintonWintonWinton@reddit

Enjoy your one sided war.

No war is one sided. As mentioned, if one side is badly losing, they can always choose to surrender.

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mormon_freeman@reddit

This article is behind a paywall, but the author runs an American Defence think tank and political pressure group, and has ties to both Mossad and the CIA. So he's not exactly a good source of information.

Given that Hamas and Hezbollah are both functionally governments and paramilitary organizations and have their own publications, you would think you would be able to provide a primary source.

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slickweasel333@reddit

Another source you don't like, not surprised.

Got it. Here's the NATO Stategic Communications corroborating the practice of hiding behind civilians, which is a warcrime, along both many others.

https://stratcomcoe.org/cuploads/pfiles/hamas_human_shields.pdf

Pg 154

Hamas (via spokespeople) 2006: "The citizens will continue defending their pride and houses and will continue to serve as human shields until the enemy will withdraw." 2014: "The fact that people are willing to sacrifice themselves against Israeli warplanes in order to protect their homes, I believe this strategy is proving itself. And we, Hamas, call on our people to adopt this practice."11 2014: "Hamas despise those defeatist Palestinians that criticize the high number of civilian casualties. The resistance praises our people...we lead our people to death...I mean, to war."2

I am happy to provide sources for those, too 😀

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mormon_freeman@reddit

Yes please do provide those primary sources

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slickweasel333@reddit

10- Statement by spokesperson Mushir Al-Masri following a telephone alert issued by the IDF, which was planning to strike Hamas executive Waal Rajub Al-Shakra's house in Beit Lahiya. Al-Aqsa TV, 20 November 2006.

11- Statement by spokesperson Sami Abu Zuhri after the IDF aborted an airstrike to avoid civilian casualties. Quoted in: Israel Defense Forces, "Hamas Spokesperson Encourages Use of Human Shield," Youtube Video, 9 July 2014, https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=UXZEzbTOH1s

12- Statement by spokesperson Sami al-Zuhari. Al-Agsa TV, 13 July 2014.

13 - Al-Quds Radio, 18 November 2006.

14 - Interview, Al-Jazeera, 29 February 2008.

15 - Al-Aqsa TV, 29 February 2008. Clip can also be found in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giJIG3KXq8c

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mormon_freeman@reddit

I don't know who taught you to footnote, but usually you need to provide non broken links, and your footnotes should be in relation to something.

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slickweasel333@reddit

I already told you where the applicable content is. You can see the footnotes there.

Pg 154

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frizzykid@reddit

Didn't know hamas being in the area justified burning civilians alive. That's wild.

If a robber breaks into your house next door, and begins to fire out the window at police, do we call in the airforce to bomb that building and the people around it?

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slickweasel333@reddit

How do you know they are low ranking? How do you know the fire wasn't started by Hamas?

I can play the hypothetical question game as well.

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frizzykid@reddit

What hypothetical question game? Did Israel have a valid reason to conduct this strike or were they just attacking innocent civilians?

People are allowed to ask these questions when they see civilians burning to death in an explosion caused by an idf strike. You're the only one making a game out of that.

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slickweasel333@reddit

This hypothetical game

If a group of terrorists take over a school full of chileren, do we bring out tanks and Gas out the building

When no one was gassed and no tanks were present, or anything comparable. All we know is that there was an explosion and runaway fire after the strike. Here is the press release.

Overnight, with the direction of IDF and ISA intelligence, the IAF conducted a precise strike on terrorists who were operating inside a command and control center in the area of a parking lot adjacent to the 'Shuhadah Al-Aqsa' hospital in Deir al-Balah.

Shortly after the strike, a fire ignited in the hospital's parking lot, most likely due to secondary explosions. The incident is under review. The hospital and its functionality were not affected from the strike.

The IDF is taking numerous steps to mitigate the risk of harming civilians, including the use of precise munitions, aerial surveillance, and additional intelligence.

You literally said it.

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slickweasel333@reddit

It is on your mind because you brought it up, lol.

More than that, are they active combatants. These are the questions you have to think about

Trying to imply Hamas should be allowed to hide in a hospital and then dodging the question when confronted ain't a good look for you, dude.

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Phenergan_boy@reddit (OP)

I wasn't thinking in the way that you frame it. I stating my comment in the context of Geneva convention which prohibits acts of violence against any incapacitated combantants.

Frankly, again idc if I look good or not.

Citation: https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/gci-1949/article-12/commentary/2016

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slickweasel333@reddit

Are you saying that the combatants inside the hospital were incapacitated? Are you suggesting the IDF was targeting injured Hamas members at the hospital?

We don't automatically assume that targets become incapacitated when entering a hospital, and the evidence of small arms munitions cooking off in the fire indicates that they were most likely using the hospital as a staging area or at least storage.

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Phenergan_boy@reddit (OP)

Look, you are asking questions that nobody knows. Hell, I doubt IDF's intel even know if they were there for the ammunition, or to treat an injury, or to visit a family member. They are entirely happy to shoot first and answer that question later because they don't have to adhere to the international laws on warfare. That's the larger point I am trying to make here.

You can try to Socratic method all you want, but this is not gonna get you anywhere in this argument lol

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slickweasel333@reddit

Socratic method is a form of teaching, not argument. Asking you questions about understanding your position is not the socratic method.

And I can't see how you can automatically assume the IDF intelligence knew very little when we've seen some very huge and comprehensive intelligence operations the past few months.

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Phenergan_boy@reddit (OP)

Lol, lmao even. Socratic method is a form of argumentative method. Plato used it as a form of teaching where his students watched while him and his guests go through the Socratic method on a particular topic.

And I can't see how you can automatically assume the IDF intelligence knew very little when we've seen some very huge and comprehensive intelligence operations the past few months.

Then how did they allow October 7th to happen?

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slickweasel333@reddit

Socrates engaged his students, not his guests, in his method. But this is besides the point. And I won't let you change the conversation away from you dodging the earlier questions, regardless of what the IDF knows.

Are you saying that the combatants inside the hospital were incapacitated? Are you suggesting the IDF was targeting injured Hamas members at the hospital?

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Phenergan_boy@reddit (OP)

Alright, I'm bored of this. I have some work I gotta do. Goodluck with this line of arguments, you're not gonna convince anyone getting it.

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slickweasel333@reddit

That's the second time you dodged the implications you brought up. You said they could not be targeted because the Hamas inside were not active combatants at the time.

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Benzodiazeparty@reddit

lol you cleared ‘em 💯

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slickweasel333@reddit

And in other parts of this thread, people are arguing that

Palestinians have a right to attack and harm their occupation, by law, and morally, they were in the right to do so.

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Vineee2000@reddit

Striking them without a warning and a reasonable wait period would in fact be a war crime, yes. Geneva Convention 4, Part II, Article 19, Discontinuance of protection of hospitals, specifically.

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slickweasel333@reddit

You're right, but we don't know whether the IDF issued a warning.

Where such a warning has remained unheeded, the enemy is no longer obliged to refrain from interfering with the work of a medical establishment or unit, or to take positive measures to assist it in its work.

https://www.icrc.org/en/document/protection-hospitals-during-armed-conflicts-what-law-says#:~:text=Therefore%2C%20specific%20protection%20to%20which,act%20harmful%20to%20the%20enemy%22.

I think it’s more of a question on the limit of Collateral damage. Instead of a targeted assassination Israel bombed an entire hospital camp. So you have to ask yourself how many to too many? Like really let’s say there was one hamas member inside the camp. How many civilians would you consider “acceptable” collateral damage to take out that one single person?

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revolution_is_just@reddit

Okay, will you be outraged if you found out it was fuel/oxygen tanks? Or you will be like shit happens, this is war?

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slickweasel333@reddit

If it's released that there was no evidence or faulty evidence that Hamas was present, then yes, I would say this loss of civilian life falls mainly on the IDF's shoulders, aside from the obvious partial responsibility that Hamas shares for reigniting the conflict. But as we've seen, Hamas and PIJ have no scruples about launching attacks from inside schools and other civilian infrastructure to make the IDF look like a villain for returning fire.

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revolution_is_just@reddit

Okay, so even after burning IV injected civilians, you would make excuses for IDF. I now understand how Nazism rose to power.

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slickweasel333@reddit

If it's released that there was no evidence or faulty evidence that Hamas was present, then yes, I would say this loss of civilian life falls mainly the IDF's shoulders

Can you read?

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Assassinduck@reddit

You said mainly. It's always been only on the IDF. You don't get to pretend otherwise, psychopath.

How does raping men in prison harm Khamas and is it also moral and protected by law? Owh, NVM Israel was celebrating those rapists, giving them interviews!

And just a side note, there has been no proof of rape on Oct 7th. Nada, zero account of rape.

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slickweasel333@reddit

Why do you keep writing Khamas instead of Hamas?

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revolution_is_just@reddit

Yes, I read the whole thing. Read your whole answer and how you babbled about Khamas.

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slickweasel333@reddit

Oh, you're not arguing in good faith. Got it.

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Pattern_Is_Movement@reddit

It breaks my mind how people can think its justified to KNOWINGLY kill civilians because you think there might be HAMAS member there.

I don't give a fuck if you are not supposed have "human shields", but this IS NOT JUSTIFIED. The OBSCENE amount of civilian deaths in retaliation, is like justifying the millions that died in the war on terror because of the couple thousand that died in the towers. FUCK THAT. My own cousin died in a terror attack, and I cannot imagine justifying the killing of so many in response.

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slickweasel333@reddit

I never said they knowingly killed civilians. I said this could've been a justified strike that caused a runaway explosion from secondaries. We saw the same thing happened in Rafah.

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Pattern_Is_Movement@reddit

anything can be anything, the most likely thing that exploded was the dozens of propane tanks in the area along with medical tanks etc... don't you ever get tired of defending a nation that openly argues its ok to rape Palestinians then parades the rapist on TV shows like a war hero? Really the mental gymnastics to protect your brain from seeing what is happening for what is literally happening in front of you, is mind boggling.

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slickweasel333@reddit

Propane tanks don't sound like gunshots when they explode.

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Strange how you people always have to refer to that one specific case to show that media doesn't always get right what the origin of the explosion is. Almost as if every single other case of civilians dying in an explosion was in fact the result of Israeli bombs.

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slickweasel333@reddit

Nah, the Rafah example is another good one, but Al Ahli is the most famous one. And weird you don't want me pointing to the evidence.

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Phyrexian_Supervisor@reddit

Definitely no oxygen canisters or fuel tanks in a hospital

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slickweasel333@reddit

Do either of those make cracking and zipping noises when they go off?

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ThatEndingTho@reddit

The chuffing (fizzling sounds) is consistent with oxygen and gas tanks burning off.

trigerhappi@reddit

What am I listening for? The minimal popping? That's like a small arms combat load cook-off at best.

You can see a gas canister ignite and rocket away (the safety stem worked until it got too hot) at about :39s. You can see what is likely a cooking or heating canister fail at about :42s.

Is this supposed to be an ammo cache? Where's the big boom? Where are the cook-offs?

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HydrostaticTrans@reddit

Why are their bullets in a hospital?

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trigerhappi@reddit

Were they bullets?

Let's say it is bullets. To me, it sounds like a combat load worth of ammo at most - not an ammo cache or depot. You could split that load across 2-3 people. It's conceivable that there may be armed sentries at a hospital in a warzone with a history of pretending to be medical staff to do snatch/grab and assassination operations.

Let's say it's not bullets. It could be various sealed plastics and glasses with contents increasingly becoming under pressure due to the fire. There are various gas tanks as well - oxygen and likely propane or butane for cooking and heating - that would be present. Those types of tanks should release their contents in a stream of flame; those valve stems may have failed due to improper storage, too hot of a fire too quickly, or damage from the strike.

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WintonWintonWinton@reddit

It's conceivable that there may be armed sentries at a hospital in a warzone with a history of pretending to be medical staff to do snatch/grab and assassination operations.

LMFAOO

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trigerhappi@reddit

My mistake, it was not Gaza but Jenin.

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Phyrexian_Supervisor@reddit

And yet Iran hitting a military base was brazen escalation because there were civilian neighborhoods nearby. Curious.

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slickweasel333@reddit

Nah, it was an escalation because it was one of the largest ballistic missile attacks we've ever seen.

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Phenergan_boy@reddit (OP)

Reminder that the IDF and its US allies have an extensive history of using white phosphorous in urban battlefields in Lebanon and Gaza:

https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/06/05/lebanon-israels-white-phosphorous-use-risks-civilian-harm
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/lebanon-evidence-of-israels-unlawful-use-of-white-phosphorus-in-southern-lebanon-as-cross-border-hostilities-escalate/
https://citizenevidence.org/2023/10/13/israel-opt-identifying-the-israeli-armys-use-of-white-phosphorus-in-gaza/

Of course, the IDF came out and denied the allegations, and it is only being used for smokescreens and reconnaissance purposes, but does that justify the use of a chemical weapon that is extremely toxic in a densely populated environment?

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azure_beauty@reddit

The fire was not set off by white phosphorus, but by Hamas munitions that blew up after being hit.

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tinkertailormjollnir@reddit

Do you have proof of these munitions?

Actually do you have proof of Hamas being nearby at all?

It’s a fucking hospital. There is gas, generators, OXYGEN at a hospital you modern day Holocaust denier.

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azure_beauty@reddit

Do you have proof of these munitions?

Yes watch the video and you will see them exploding. That is not how an oxygen tank explodes.

There are five dead as a result of this strike, three men, two women. Although Hamas does not disclose militants and tells others not to disclose them either, we know one of the victims was a survivor of a prior targeted strike against a Hamas base inside a Mosque.

Trust me, if the intention was to terrorize or kill, there would not be only five casualties.

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Oppopity@reddit

Yeah they bombed another hospital again. But they didn't bomb all of it so they must've been targeting Hamas!

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Motorboater99@reddit

Trust me, if the intention was to terrorize or kill, there would not be only five casualties.

Uhmm there’s been over 40,000 most of them women and children. I think that ship sailed a long time ago.

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MightFail_Tal@reddit

If your claims about the video and oxygen tanks exploding are true (how did tou learn to tell btw) I’m sure independent viewers like the BBC(pretty IOF friendly usually) would see the video and say the same things. Care to explain how you’re the only one who believes this after seeing the video (not even sure the IOF is going as far as you)

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NoobOfTheSquareTable@reddit

The BBC has been at most neutral on the Gaza and Hezbollah fighting and has been caught out by Hamas’ active propaganda before, most notably the missile strike on the hospital early on that later turned out to be a faulty missile fired by either Hamas of a similar group and then the hugely inflated numbers of casualties. This isn’t to say they are wrong, but the BBC hasn’t been a pro Israel source for this most recent conflict

On the explosions, it is possible to tell the type of explosion and there are some interesting videos on how Hollywood has accustomed people to what is normally called low explosives rather than high explosives. One is much faster reacting and less likely to cause a fireball or billowing smoke as the explosive is used up much faster and you get a concentrated burst. This is good for weapons but bad for camera. Oxygen tanks (and you can look this up, there are examples of oxygen tanks burning) are closer to low explosives as the oxygen expands rapidly and burns up in a large area creating a huge billowing fireball with a lot of smoke following it

How exactly? Not like I'm talking about some crazy conspiracy theories a la Jewish Space Laser. Its well documented how Israel uses online discourse and attack campaigns. The common word to refer to this, if you'll believe me, is Hasbara. How else should I refer to it?

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adiggittydogg@reddit

Okay sorry. You have a point. I'll delete my other comment.

There are some terms though (like IOF) that definitely fall into this category.

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TendieRetard@reddit

nah, it's a tactic. They run that shit on their own ppl at the Israel sub.

"I'm a trans-queer-POC from Somalia & me & my husgand stand w/Israel" kind of shit

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adiggittydogg@reddit

Thank you. Not everyone here has a casual relationship with the truth. Just wanted you to know that. I've been upvoting your stuff.

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MightFail_Tal@reddit

lol I think you’re confusing your excuse manuals from different massacres. Even the IOF is not claiming this lol.

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adiggittydogg@reddit

IOF

Another Shibboleth identifying an unserious person and argument.

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azure_beauty@reddit

Tell me, what is the IDF not claiming in this scenario?

Its illegality is not based on where it’s used but why.

Not entirely wrong, but not correct either. White phosphorus is explicitly forbidden in urban areas, even if it is used for a smokescreen, because it has the potential to cause indiscriminate civilian casualties.

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dont-believe-me-@reddit

So fucken sick of this line. Pathetic.

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PartySr@reddit

Here is the aftermath - https://youtu.be/naWSyVb-2FY?t=45

Gas canisters are visible in the video, and no ammunition whatsoever.

Now go tell your fellow zionists how hamas are hiding under kids, so you can burn some more cuz 20.000 wasn't enough already.

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Assassinduck@reddit

when Israel does use incendiary weapons, it is not in civilian areas.

This line about "white phosphorus only being an incendiary" is CIA and IDF-propaganda horse shit that we have known is horse shit for a decade, since the last major time that the IDF deployed chemical attacks.

It's an "incendiary" that has chemical properties, which causes symptoms of psychological illness and stress, and causes chemical burns which burn you inside and out. It is a chemical weapon, stop saying otherwise when it's a blatant lie.

Also, we have videos of the IDF deploying white phosphorus in Lebanon as early as last year, so it's been used in civilian areas in the last 12 months.

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Pattern_Is_Movement@reddit

hhahaha "KKAMAMAMMAS munitions"

There are little portable stoves in most of these tents because people are living in them as if they were a home after your military bombed their home.

Also there is TONS AND TONS of evidence of Israel using white phosphorus over civilian areas, I wish I could find the video where it was happening in the background of a reporter and they cutoff the feed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ygKrHKrNK4

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Phenergan_boy@reddit (OP)

I think you need to go work on your reading comprehension. Did I say that the IDF uses white phosphorous in this particular incident? No, I just said that the IDF has an extensive history of white phosphorous in urban battlefields in Lebanon and Gaza.

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Do call It out so we can all dunk on you. Never gets old ❤️

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MegucaIsSuffering@reddit

The use of white phosphorus by the IDF Nazis against civilian areas throughout the years has been very well documented. There is no context in which you can justify the use of such a barbaric weapon.

Bro your trying on an empty crowd , the people.of this sub don'know actual laws of war

Their just gonna say Israel bad for everything and if palastinians would have done it then they would have called it heroic

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Motorboater99@reddit

Out of interest, how much are Israeli bot posters paid, is it hourly or by post?

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steeldragon404@reddit

We don't get paid , people with different opinions exist , maybe if you left your pro terrorism echo chambers and touched grass you would have known

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cheesemaster_3000@reddit

In 4 months since you created this account your comment history contains the word Israel 1570 times. Totally not agenda posting.

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steeldragon404@reddit

Maybe cause I'm Israeli and I want to talk about my country ?

Also your so bored that you went and counted how many times I said Israel , get a life

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Assassinduck@reddit

So who gives a shit what Israel says it uses it for, then? Nukes make lots of light and can illuminate a large area, doesn't mean I get to pretend like anyone claiming that's what they are used for, isn't talking out of their ass.

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fxmldr@reddit

That's what I would say too if I were deploying chemical weapons in a densely populated area.

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SomeDumRedditor@reddit

If I was [a Palestinian] at the right age, at some stage I would have entered one of the terror organizations and have fought from there, and later certainly have tried to influence from within the political system.

-Ehud Barak

When later questioned by Haaretz he said,

“What else could I say? That if I were a young Palestinian immersed from birth in the Palestinian ethos, I’d become a third-grade teacher?”

The idea of collective punishment, imposed from without, leading to a revolt against internal leaders is and always has been doomed to fail. Bibi knows this. It is by design now. Israel must always have an enemy to justify its regional ambitions, satisfy the Zionist bloc and maintain a militarized society. The longer there are “enemies in their midst”, the longer Bibi can cling to power. In the meantime, the slow-boil ethnic cleansing continues while the newest generation is radicalized for their eventual, justifiable, elimination.

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AniTaneen@reddit

“I’ve learned something in the past two and a half months,” Rabin told a group of Labor Party colleagues in 1988. “Among other things, that you can’t rule by force over one and a half million Palestinians.”

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/10/26/yitzhak-rabin-assassination-israel-oslo-peace-accords

This most basic form of empathy and understanding of your opponent is considered a form of weakness in the fucked up world of modern Israeli politics. Israeli politicians preach that somehow they can bomb Palestinians into submission. Meanwhile Palestinian have just witnessed the only successful resistance to be a mass murder of peace activists.

Let’s face it, Sinwar and Netanyahu both got what they wanted from this war. Because we live in a world where the murderers got to lead.

The only people who believe in and preach cooperation are in self imposed exiles.

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adiggittydogg@reddit

Events like 10/7 don't exactly make the more peaceful factions' job any easier.

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AniTaneen@reddit

KIBBUTZ GEZER, Israel — Hundreds of friends and fellow activists gathered Thursday for a service honoring the memory of Vivian Silver, a Canadian Israeli peace activist.

Silver was declared dead this week and was identified by her remains found at her home in Kibbutz Be’eri, Israel. It was thought she might have been held hostage in Gaza following the Hamas attacks on Oct. 7.

Silver, 74, spent her life pursuing peace in the region, her son, Yonatan Zeigen, told NPR in October. After the war in Gaza in 2014, Silver co-founded Women Wage Peace, which lobbies for a diplomatic resolution to the conflict and brings together women from both Israeli and Palestinian societies. She also served on the board of directors of B’Tselem, an Israeli human rights organization.

Silver regularly volunteered for the organization Road to Recovery, which provided transportation for sick Palestinians from Gaza to Israel for medical treatment.

On Oct. 7, Hamas militants killed an estimated 1,200 people and kidnapped another 240 in Israeli towns, according to Israeli officials. To date, more than 11,000 people have been killed by Israel’s military response, according to Gaza’s Ministry of Health.

“She believed in the end of this cursed conflict and that people in Gaza and in the Gaza envelope inside of Israel deserved to live in peace,” Ghadir Hani, a friend and fellow peace activist, said at the service.

The service for Silver concluded with an impromptu medley of peace songs sung by her fellow Women Wage Peace members. - https://www.npr.org/sections/pictureshow/2023/11/17/1213523321/israel-gaza-peace-activist-vivian-silver-funeral-service

Oct 7th essentially murdered what was left of the peace movement in Israel. The response probably did the same in Ramallah.

Sometimes I fear I’m being conspiratorial. The war has done nothing but solidify the power of the worst people in the world: https://www.vox.com/world-politics/375398/israel-palestine-lebanon-october-7-anniversary-one-year

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adiggittydogg@reddit

Weird I thought you were going to go in a different direction with those quotes.

That, is an attempt at empathy. And a correct identification of the very deep systemic hatred that permeates Palestinian (particularly Gazan) culture.

But you went off and said some crap nonsense, SMH.

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UniteRobWithDoug@reddit

Israel is herding Palestinians into camps and burning them alive?

So...a holocaust.

This is Israel's final solution for Palestinians, to exterminate them. I now understand the Zionazi slur people keep using.

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gerkletoss@reddit

Was this the one where the video had lots of secondary explosions from the hamas munitions detonating?

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Justavisitor-0538@reddit

Let me guess, your "proof" of "Hamas munitions" is some cracking noises in a video of an hospital tent burning ?

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gerkletoss@reddit

Which medical supplies do you think are exploding?

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Justavisitor-0538@reddit

This could literally be anything. You need to proves it's munitions, I don't have to prove it's not. Cracking sound is not enough of a proof to burn civilians. In fact, even if there was Hamas munitions (there probably wasn't), this still wouldn't justify burning civilians.

Also since we're randomly posting unrelated links :

https://www.trtworld.com/middle-east/database-exposes-500-instances-of-israeli-incitement-to-genocide-in-gaza-16537146

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/damning-evidence-of-war-crimes-as-israeli-attacks-wipe-out-entire-families-in-gaza/

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/09/israel-opt-israeli-military-must-be-investigated-for-war-crime-of-wanton-destruction-in-gaza-new-investigation/

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/israel-opt-horrifying-cases-of-torture-and-degrading-treatment-of-palestinian-detainees-amid-spike-in-arbitrary-arrests/

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gerkletoss@reddit

You're claiming the IDF bombed the camp. The IDF claims they bombed an adjacent site and the fire spread due to the Hamas weapons stores. You need to prove they bombed the camp. They don't need to prove they didn't.

That's how international law actually works.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/

As well as carrying out unlawful killings, others abducted by Hamas were subjected to torture, including severe beatings with truncheons, gun butts, hoses and wire or held in stress positions. Some were interrogated and tortured or otherwise ill-treated in a disused outpatient’s clinic within the grounds of Gaza City’s main al-Shifa hospital. At least three people arrested during the conflict accused of “collaboration” died in custody.

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Justavisitor-0538@reddit

I guess you're ignoring the fact that cracking noises isn't proof of anything.

The IDF claims they bombed an adjacent site and the fire spread due to the Hamas weapons stores.

This is a ridiculous claim. Did you read OP's article ?

Also The IDF destroyed 60 % of Gaza and are accused in an UN report of targeting Gaza's heath system. https://documents.un.org/doc/undoc/gen/n24/262/79/pdf/n2426279.pdf

Totally trustworthy.

Why did you post this amnesty article ? I obviously condemn the use of torture by Hamas. But Israel is the one doing it the most.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/israel-opt-horrifying-cases-of-torture-and-degrading-treatment-of-palestinian-detainees-amid-spike-in-arbitrary-arrests/

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/07/israel-must-end-mass-incommunicado-detention-and-torture-of-palestinians-from-gaza/

I won't bother with the reddit link, using reddit posts as a source is ridiculous.

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gerkletoss@reddit

This is a ridiculous claim.

What's ridiculous about it? Why is it more ridiculous claiming than claiming the secondary explosions are nothing?

Did you read OP's article ?

Yes

Totally trustworthy.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-hospital-rocket-gaza-e0fa550faa4678f024797b72132452e3

Why did you post this amnesty article ?

To illustrate how trustworthy hamas is about hiding military facilities in and near medical facilities

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GalacticMe99@reddit

Second time I notice that the media describes it as 'burns douzens'. Can mean they suffered some minor burns. Can also mean their bodies were turned into living charcoal in screaming agony

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