Glad you asked!

Former President Donald Trump has proposed a wide variety of tax policy changes. Taken together, these proposals would, on average, lead to a tax cut for the richest 5 percent of Americans and a tax increase for all other income groups.

If these proposals were in effect in 2026, the richest 1 percent would receive an average tax cut of about $36,300 and the next richest 4 percent would receive an average tax cut of about $7,200. All other groups would see a tax increase with the hike on the middle 20 percent at about $1,500 and the increase on the lowest-income 20 percent of Americans at about $800.

Source

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darkingz@reddit

I was reading the conservative sub for a bit and literally everything that it shows republicans doing, seems to be projected onto dems.

Things like:

Tim waltz is weird and has pedophile accusations Republicans are backing democracy not dems Dems are subverting everything Jd vance is an expert debater and will likely be second after desantis for 2028 That Kamala wouldn’t certify the election

And on. It made me partially wonder about like what is truth out there. Is it just gaslighting on everyone’s part? But then they started talking about random Twitter users and I was just like yeah… they need better sources and thinking.

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dumnezero@reddit

It's been getting clearer and clearer that: accusations = projection of own guilt for these conservatives. I wouldn't say that it's gaslighting; take it as a confession of intents. It's the "go on the offensive" strategy applied at varying scales. At the very least, it creates this condition:

make accusations that X did Y.
claim to be victim.
do Y to X (or someone close) as an "eye for an eye" response which is treated as more legitimate in this culture.

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Few-Gas1607@reddit

It’s been getting clearer and clearer that: accusations = projection of own guilt for these conservatives. I wouldn’t say that it’s gaslighting; take it as a confession of intents. It’s the “go on the offensive” strategy applied at varying scales. At the very least, it creates this condition:

⁠make accusations that X did Y.

⁠claim to be victim.

⁠do Y to X (or someone close) as an “eye for an eye” response which is treated as more legitimate response in this culture. An equal “self-defense” move.

What you are describing is also called DARVO (Deny, Accuse, Reverse Victim and Offender), and it’s a common tactic narcissists use to avoid accountability.

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Astyanax1@reddit

It's the conservative way. They're perpetual victims

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broniesnstuff@reddit

they need better sources and thinking.

They don't want them. They want to feel right. It's a cult of insecurity and projection that says everyone else is to blame, certainly not them.

Feelings over facts. Whiny, insecure assholes who are their own worst enemy.

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shannon_nonnahs@reddit

They were also never properly taught how to source information for an argument or thesis' sake... Wait, no we were all made to learn how to do all that in school!! FFS ever write a paper, take a science class, show your work on a math problem?! This is grade school level shit, and they're proudly ignorant (which is why they hate our edu system - victim switching, wasn't my fault I did bad in school, the teachers hated me, the school was bad)... Looks to me like half the country is made up of the same losers, slack offs, rich kids, and bullies we all went to fucking high school with. Embarrassing.

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soundsofsilver@reddit

The one person who I talk to who is voting for Trump says that Twitter is the place to go for unbiased, quality independent journalism. So yea, they exist in a different field of reality with different “facts”.

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marbotty@reddit

Wanna hear something even more maddening?

They’ve not adopted the language that we’re the ones doing the projection.

They really don’t have any ideas of their own

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Feine13@reddit

Is it just gaslighting on everyone’s part?

It absolutely is.

The truth always exists somewhere in the middle of the extremes. The hard part is finding out where it is.

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Few-Gas1607@reddit

The truth always exists somewhere in the middle of the extremes. The hard part is finding out where it is.

Afro-Pope@reddit

If we are comparing the two

I mean, basically you hit the nail on the head. I don’t really intentionally align with anarchist solidly, but definitely do with raccoons.

this needs to be upvoted into orbit.

Xth3r_@reddit

"and when sounding like "A" as in neighbor and weigh, and on weekends and holidays and all throughout May, and YOU'LL ALWAYS BE WRONG NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY!"

-Brian Regan

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SaltyPeasant@reddit

That's exactly why I think they'll do something prior to his inauguration. They have assassinated presidents before, what's stopping them now? I know it's in the realm of conspiracy, but I just can't see them doing nothing.

Hi, Perfecshionism. Thanks for contributing. However, your comment was removed from /r/collapse for:

Rule 1: In addition to enforcing Reddit's content policy, we will also remove comments and content that is abusive or predatory in nature. You may attack each other's ideas, not each other.

Please refer to our subreddit rules for more information.

He seemed really progressive.

Reagan was such a dickhead he removed that solar heater, out of spite, and put it in a museum as Carter predicted. Fuck Reagan.

By 1986, the Reagan administration had gutted the research and development budgets for renewable energy at the then-fledgling U.S. Department of Energy (DoE) and eliminated tax breaks for the deployment of wind turbines and solar technologies—recommitting the nation to reliance on cheap but polluting fossil fuels, often from foreign suppliers.

~David Biello, in "Where Did the Carter White House's Solar Panels Go?" in Scientific American (August 6, 2010)

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marbotty@reddit

I’m well aware of this history but it never fails to enrage me whenever I’m reminded of it. F Ronnie

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HommeMusical@reddit

You mean, "Dreams with a President Gore, and no 9/11 at all."

"The dems do nothing when elections are stolen."

Because so many of them still make huge amounts of money no matter who "wins".

We do not have a democracy.

Dems are capable of action as they are now actively helping the fascist beast win.

They are VERY good at stopping progressive people in their tracks----

Exhibit A: Bernie Sanders

Exhibit B (a more recent example): Jamaal Bowman

A casket.

I have no intention of living through four more years of this horseshit.

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Wulfkat@reddit

It won’t be rug party that does anything meaningful. But I guaran-fucking-tee that if Trump is granted the win by the SCOTUS, an insurgency will take place, even if I have to do it alone.

Flip side, if Harris wins? There will probably be some people who will start their insurgency.

This is the rock and the hard place. If you ever wondered what you would have done in Nazi Germany, well, we are all about to find out. Good luck, god speed, good hunting, and pass the ammo.

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Tough_Salads@reddit

"Praise the lord and pass the ammunition" :) You won't be alone if you text me, I'll come along friendo. I just got my first handgun

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BTRCguy@reddit

Evergreen:

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Tough_Salads@reddit

That is so perfect

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dr_mcstuffins@reddit

Women have too much to lose, we aren’t going to just let the Handmaids tale happen

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trailsman@reddit

If he wins. But not if they pull some shenanigans to somehow win.

Do I expect armed idiots marching in the street like Trump would insite if he lost, no. But I would expect significant protests.

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Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit

If he becomes a dictator, which wouldn’t shock me, the earth 🌎 will get her revenge soon

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FREE-AOL-CDS@reddit

The amount of cringe tiktok videos being made skyrockets.

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LaurenDreamsInColor@reddit

Most of the action will be in Blue States where governors and legislatures will be fortifying their states against retribution. I can also see migration of left leaning folks moving out of red states to blue states. Anyone whose not a cis-het white christian male and many younger women of all persuasions will be wary in red states and looking to opt out of those places before they can't.

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daviddjg0033@reddit

retribution

I guess come for me. I got nothing to lose. What are Reputinlickers gonna do? Buy Greenland and wage war with Mexico?

can also see migration of left leaning folks moving out of red states

Would u let your SO be 🤰 pregnant in a red state? Not even rich Republicans are that dumb. Melania MAY come out of the bunker ONLY to fight Laura Loomer, who is def suxking the 80yo limp biscuit prick.

Trump your crowd size is as small and crooked as Stormy said your prick is.

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Perfecshionism@reddit

I am retired military with decades of service…

The number of democrats that have asked me to teach them to shoot and bought guns in the last year is solid anecdotal evidence that Dems will not go quietly into the “enemies within” camps.

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420cherubi@reddit

They probably won't do anything if they win either. Doing nothing is kind of their thing

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scumfuckstrawberry@reddit

Kamala is literally talking about putting a Republican in her cabinet and Walz was talking to Vance like he was an old college friend during the VP debate. the Dems won’t do anything if the republicans win because they’re on the same team, they both ultimately serve capital and US hegemony at the end of the day.

Dem voters will likely protest like they did in 2016 but Dem politicians will roll over and die like they did in 2020 when they did nothing to stop the Republicans from appointing Amy Coney Barrett.

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Crusty_Magic@reddit

They'll put #resist in their social media profiles and...

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baconraygun@reddit

Maybe they'll kneel for nine minutes, and do nothing to change the power structures that lead to that kneeling in the first place.

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ehm_education@reddit

I don't expect the Dems to do anything meaningful ~~if Trump wins.~~

The US will continue to putter along and fall apart just like everywhere else. It’s not going to be big grand events like elections or revolutions which determine the outcomes of collapse.

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Gengaara@reddit

The Bush v Gore election was probably stolen

Democrats just don't fight, period. Nixon undermined peace negotiations in Vietnam to get elected, and Johnson didn't do shit. Bush Sr. was involved in Iran Contra. Bush Jr was installed. Republicans can't win without felons and or stealing elections/fraud. Reagan was the last one "legitimately" elected and he did so on the back of lies like a welfare queen.

Democrats are too afraid to do anything lest they be viewed as the ones undermining democracy, thus they allow democracy to be undermined.

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JustAnotherYouth@reddit

They aren’t afraid they’re paid, they could kick over the cart and start prosecuting people for crimes but they do not want to. The system is working just fine for the people making the political donations.

Massively upsetting the system by enforcing law on the rich and powerful is not what Democrats or their diners want.

A lot of the organized big money opposition to Trump is because people are worried he’ll do something very dumb that hurts business.

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Beginning_Bat_7255@reddit

worried he’ll do something very dumb that hurts business.

the big business interests are betting on their metrics not being disrupted by full blown fascism and perhaps they are correct.

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Counterboudd@reddit

Exactly this. They are there to feign as if there is any political will to do things that are mildly left, but they sit on their hands when in power and blame the republicans for not letting them institute the policy they run on. Meanwhile the republicans get in and start signing executive orders left and right and getting their entire platform enacted in to law. The democrats could do the same. They don’t want to. And it’s clear the way they treated primaries in 2020 that they aren’t interested in actual democracy or running candidates that have an actual progressive agenda, and they will foist whoever they want on the rest of us. Same with Biden dropping out when instructed and Kamala being the de facto nominee- because they don’t want to have the farce of a primary to not go in their direction.

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annuidhir@reddit

Reagan was the last one "legitimately" elected

KeebRealtor@reddit

This is probably the most sobering yet truthful statement.

It’s true American politics is now a game of biggest bag, with biggest influence. The care for the American people and investing back into their own infrastructure is long gone.

You look at countries like China, Japan, Korea and you’ll wonder why they look like they’re in the future while our infrastructure is still in the early 40s or some shit.

Once you realize American policies wasn’t about giving Americans more and investing in its people, but more how do we give more control, power, and market share to corpos.

I’m just sad that my son is going to have to deal with this future…

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guitar_vigilante@reddit

You do know that money in politics is a bigger issue in Korea than the US, don't you?

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Frankalicious47@reddit

Not to mention that China is basically a dictatorship and surveillance state. Yeah we have really serious problems here but let’s not pretend that those are shining examples to emulate

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SanityNotFound@reddit

I don't think anyone is pointing at any particular country and saying that their system is perfect and should be emulated. Every country on Earth has issues, many that run deeper than official policy and quality of life. What they are saying is that despite those issues, many Eastern countries have still invested in modern infrastructure and technology that their citizens benefit from. Meanwhile the "most powerful country" can't even build a meaningful passenger rail network or keep its roads and bridges maintained. We can't even begin to talk about implementing some of the tech that China, Japan, and Korea have because we don't even have the basics down.

It's disingenuous to say "this country has serious issues so we can't consider implementing anything they have done" when the US is actively crumbling because of the corruption and upward wealth transfer here. As for China being a surveillance state, the US is one too. The difference is that our surveillance is done by corporations and data brokers and then given to our government.

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Frankalicious47@reddit

Nobody said “we can’t implement anything they’ve done”. The US as a surveillance state doesn’t compare to China — like you said, we give up our privacy and data willingly to corporations so that they can target us with ads, where China does it to control the behavior of its citizens. Ultimately I agree with much of what you’re saying, but I think the original comment implied that these other countries don’t suffer from the same problems of corporate greed and that they have the best interests of their citizens in mind, and that is not exactly true

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SanityNotFound@reddit

If you think that the only thing they are doing with our data is targeting ads, you're either willfully ignorant or extremely naive.

Nobody said “we can’t implement anything they’ve done”.

That is exactly what you were saying. The earlier comment in this thread was talking about the technology and infrastructure of China, Korea and Japan looking like future tech compared to what we have, and you responded by criticizing China's dictatorship and surveillance state. You're attempting to discredit the idea that we should compare our infrastructure to theirs at all because of issues that exist within their government and society.

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Frankalicious47@reddit

Hm, care to point out the exact phrase or sentence where you think I said “we can’t implement anything they’ve done”? The original comment implies these other countries are much better than the US because their governments actually care about their citizens, and that is misleading at best. I think a lot of people here fall into the trap of thinking every other country is sooo much better than the US, when in reality, every country has its own serious problems. That’s not to mention that the US has very serious, probably existential problems, and it’s good to highlight and criticize them. But it’s foolish to act like other countries are so much better when you’ve never lived in them and have only read snippets about certain things. I never said we shouldn’t compare our infrastructure to those countries, I just said that we shouldn’t put them up on a pedestal as these shining examples where everything is great. They are also very different to ours in terms of size, population, and population distribution, so just saying “they can do this and we can’t so we suck” is just an oversimplification of a complex issue

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If people like Snowden are leaking a US global surveillance appartus, then what the fuck are you even really saying right now? You think CIA officials (or their nepotism children cough bush cough) winning the presidency via electoral college when they lost the popular vote is somehow legitimate when our representatives are voting against their constituents' best interests?

By your standards, we are exactly like China. We're one passed off AIPAC lobbyists away from people getting arrested in the US for anti-israel rhetoric

Fuck out of here with that nonsense

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Frankalicious47@reddit

No, we’re not exactly like China. People here don’t get arrested or get punished with fewer opportunities in the form of things like loan terms, housing applications, etc. for attending protests or posting things on social media that are critical of the president. Unfortunately things may eventually go that way, especially depending on what happens in a few weeks, but currently there are very real and significant differences between the way the two countries’ surveillance programs affect their citizens. Not saying ours isn’t very problematic, nor that I support its existence in any way, but acting like because they both exist they are both exactly the same is a narrow and flawed way of understanding things

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BBR0DR1GUEZ@reddit

Money in American politics is a much bigger problem for the world than money in Korean politics.

American GDP: $25 trillion. South Korean GDP: $1.7 trillion.

I’m not saying South Korean politics is uncorrupt. I’m saying volume of dirty money is a fraction of what’s thrown around in the geographical core of western imperialism.

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guitar_vigilante@reddit

Look at what I'm replying to. This person is saying look at these utopias like South Korea and the US can't do that because the government is bought and paid for. So it's absolutely appropriate to point out that South Korea is basically owned by the Chaebols.

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pajamakitten@reddit

Japan looks nice but it has been pretty stagnant as an economy for a long time, has a heavily imbalanced population pyramid, is pretty racist, and has a toxic work culture that is seeing young people give up or burn out of society.

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If money was the only thing determining election outcomes then Bloomberg (remember?) would have been president. But Trump was/is successful in tapping perfectly into the brainrot from generations of TV/mass media, which is not surprising since that’s the industry he came from. Americans love their con artists. Just one look at the prevalence of pyramid schemes, get-rich-quick scams, disdain towards education and science, and religious cults tells you all you need to know about the electorate…

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JustAnotherYouth@reddit

I’m not talking about the money of an individual but the accumulated money of all the industries and lobbying efforts to sway the political process to their liking.

This is why all major industries donate heavily to both parties. These donors do not care who wins because they have enormous influence either way.

The political idealogical battle is just a side show it provides work for political commentators and lots of NGO’s. But the reason the nuts and bolts of the system do not change is because big business and big money wants stability / control / growing assets.

The overall Republican plan is to divide the country into 3 pieces. However, that won't happen the way you describe.

Yes, there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth and protests galore. We won't see secession until doors start getting kicked in, and we see our neighbors dragged into the street.

I'm giving that maybe a year or two. Maybe people caution patience since it's only 4 years. Except Trump resigns after two years and a day in favor of Vance, who immediately pardons Trump. Vance now has ten years with the courts behind him.

I think at that point, people realize we are well and truly fucked.

Of course, Europe is at war, and China is blockading Taiwan and driving on the Phillipines, one by one. The President says America first. Our Iron dome will protect us, just like Star Wars. Meaning it won't. However, we'll be safe.

sushisection@reddit

dems are apathetic and lazy, republicans are domesticated and gullible. not quite the same.

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JustIgnoreMeBroOk@reddit

Well, that’s a pretty dumb take OP. Dems have literally never given any indication that they will collectively break the law with a result they don’t like. Why would you make such an unsubstantiated assumption?

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JakeMasterofPuns@reddit

I think you're really misrepresenting the Dems here.

Back in 2016, Trump won, and there were no riots, no calls for a violent overthrow of the government (at least, not from anyone with the power to actually do something.)

Spicynanner@reddit

Plenty of prominent democrats including Clinton called Trump’s victory “illegitimate” or otherwise questioned the results. Not saying it was on the same level as Jan 6, but we can’t deny the (false) discourse around Russia helping Trump “steal” the election. https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/trumps-denial-second-big-lie-ask-hillary-clinton-rcna55764

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the_old_coday182@reddit

They (high ranking politicians) claimed he was an illegitimate President because of Russian interference with the election. Those investigations lasted years and turned into “we’ll keep searching until we find something, and see what sticks.” As of 2016, there were zero smoking guns and certainly no quantifiable data. The Russian interference claim was literally still a conspiracy theory at that point. Celebrities taking it too far, like Kathy Griffin with her bloody Donald Trump photo shoot. Or one of my favorites, a House Speaker mockingly ripping up the POTUS’s State of the Union behind him on live TV. None of these are January 6th, but to me they still fall on the spectrum somewhere when it comes to undermining our democratic republic.

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DR_MEPHESTO4ASSES@reddit

Here's the problem with that: 2016 was EIGHT years ago. The better part of a decade. Since then, Trump has had one full blown assassination attempt and 2 (so far) foiled plots that allegedly got close to fruition, maybe sorta. There's a looooot different now.

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trump wins we will go back to our regularly schuelded programming that is storm of shit behind door A and storm of shit behind door B

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thinkingishardforyou@reddit

Hoping democrats win so we can have a civil war. I'd really enjoy not going to work for a wage that doesn't get me anywhere in life. No house, no property, no reason to support our "government". An ever diminishing wage while everything gets more and more expensive and smaller. Lovely country, I'm sure we made our forefathers proud

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Successful-Health-40@reddit

You'll still have to pay your bills

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VruKatai@reddit

TIL some people are totally good with uncounted innocent civilian deaths in a civil war so they don't have to go to work.

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Geaniebeanie@reddit

I have a hard time believing that any of us are even vaguely fit enough to go to war. lol what we all gonna do? We got meal team six on both sides.

Vast majority of this population is obese (myself included). The only civil war that’ll break out in this country is a couple of Karen’s screeching at each other at the Golden Corral buffet.

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jaynor88@reddit

So, you grow your own food and preserve it? You don’t rely on electricity, or gas? How will you survive just staying in your house? Or how will you survive when your place is destroyed or you are forcibly kicked out? Hope you don’t live where it’s cold since this could start in the cold months.

Personally, I do not want civil war.

Go spend a week helping the people recover from Helene and Milton. Help them get through devastation and then ask if you really want a civil war so you can quit your job and not pay bills

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TantramanFL@reddit

Dems won’t lose, but if they do the weeks before Inauguration Day will be wild. Trump will find that it will not be easy to put down a revolt that will have significant support with or without the military.

As for Trump losing I suspect it will end with a whimper not a bang. Biden will have the resources ready to respond, and I don’t think the number bad actors willing to go to jail is very large.

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96-62@reddit

If he wins there will be riots.

If he loses, but close enough republican legislatures can throw him the extra votes needed, all bets are off. Anything could happen.

If he loses by more than that, I don't know. Maybe the US comes through this unscathed. He won't be able to run next time, he'll be too old to manage it.

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Creamofwheatski@reddit

He's too old to manage it now, lol.

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Druzhyna@reddit

There’s social media speculation elsewhere that Donald Trump is just the Republican’s Trojan Horse this time. Theories speculate that JD Vance will overtake the Presidency and have Mike Johnson as Vice President. This is arguably a lot more dangerous because Vance and Johnson are more competent, put together, than Donald Trump.

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sirlost33@reddit

If Kamala loses, she’ll accept defeat. There might be a few court cases but she will concede if she actually loses.

Trump will not.

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Classic_Eye_3827@reddit

Democrats are just gonna blame each other for not having enough votes against Trump lol. Dems seem to all hate each other

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You're way wrong on this. This election is very close and Trump is doing much better than you think. You are in a bubble of news which is why you don't realize it. For the record I hate both Harris and Trump. I'm always amazed that Democrats lost with Hillary because they were in a bubble and thought it was a for sure win and didn't change their thinking or start listening to all media and not just liberal media to see what was really happening.

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horror-@reddit

Sure. The buffoon that lost last time and has spent the last 3.9 years behaving like a mouthy child and chasing away voters every chance he gets is "close"

Takes like yours will be everywhere.

"how could we lose so badly? They told us it was close! It MuSt HaVe BeEn ThE MiLlIoNs Of IlLeGaLs VotInG."

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ExtraBenefit6842@reddit

The polls and bet sites disagree with you but OK. The polls had Hillary winning above 90%, who do you think controls. Most of the polls?

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horror-@reddit

And I think they're wildly off. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Here's why:

Polls have been wildly off every time since 2016, I don't know why we even bother anymore.

Millennials replaced boomers as the largest voting block and don't they even answer the pollers phone calls. Young people break HARD blue, and the republicans are not exactly reaching out to them with messages like "weather control", and "eating the pets". There's also the small matter of that "black nazi" and the swastikas, and rebel flags popping up at all the conservative parties, and openly hostile policy positions regarding the Trans community that a whole lot of young people see as peers.

The whole abortion thing puts the R on the back foot to begin with, and the top R candidate would rather listen to music on stage when he could be fielding questions and addressing valid voter concerns of conservative women in his own tent.

Betting sites are trying to peg odds based on smart money while the worlds richest man is ratfucking everything money can buy. They're bookies with ties, not oracles. Those numbers will say whatever the money wants them to say.

The republican message is lies, shit, and crazy. Just because the media is pretending not to see it does not mean it's not plainly there for everybody to see. In the absence of everything else, some of us are just tired of seeing constant profanity and disrespect coming out of the republican camp.

I don't see conservatives reaching the undecided or peeling off votes from the dems with messages like "I HATE TAYLOR SWIFT", but on the other hand, I am seeing Conservatives peeling voters from the republican tent with message like "remember who you used to be"

If this race was as close as they said it was last month, the events of the past 3 weeks should have conservatives in panic mode. Instead, they're still all smug confidence and disrespect, talking about liberal media bubbles and high fiving each other.

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ExtraBenefit6842@reddit

Here's why I think that's off: and by the end ay, I don't like either party, I just listen to Noth sides and know how both sides think generally. You only seem to understand one side.

Yeah, millennials are the largest voting block now but they are ages 28 to 43. Most of them have seen that inflation is withering away their future prospects and while that is as much Trump's fault as Biden's fault they want change. Millennials aren't that young and the Democratic Party is pro war Pro censorship and not the party of young people anymore. The DNC made a big mistake putting Biden in. No one young is relating to that guy and then they made a big mistake putting Kamala in because she's extremely inauthentic not to mention in articulate. The people that are excited about having a woman president don't really care who it is but there are plenty of people who do

It seems truly insane to me that you are accusing Trump of avoiding questions when he is going on podcast after podcast and answering hard questions for hours on end. You may not like his answers but at least he's answering the questions. Kamala hit out and didn't do any interviews for 45 days but then her latest press run she did a terrible job and skirted all of the questions. You need to just start being honest about what is going on whether you like it or not. You should be very upset with the DNC for putting in someone so incompetent she's not even a good bullshitter. Gavin Newsom is terrible and Shady but the guy can bullshit pretty well off the cuff and when he Dodges questions he gets away with it. She doesn't in fact she got called out by most of the interviewers and many of those people were very much on her side. It's seriously embarrassing that she is the standard for president. And I think it's embarrassing Trump is as well but be honest she is doing a very bad job and Trump has enough going against him that this should be an easy win but the fact is this race is close simply because the Democrats have had such horrible policies for the past 4 years Sure the abortion thing is a big deal for many women but the reality at least here in California is you can kill your baby all day long nothing changed here.

So your theory is that people are willingly losing hundreds of millions of dollars just to swing the odds on betting sites? That really doesn't make any sense. Those bats are coming in from millions of different people who are looking at the situation and thinking Trump is going to win. If you look at the Electoral College votes and what is expected to happen it really is coming down to swing States at this point. Also the vast majority of people do not give a fuck what Taylor Swift thinks. The only people who do are young women who are probably not voting for Trump anyway.

You also left out RFK Jr and Tulsi gabbard and the whole independent vote which I am a part of. I would have voted for RFK Jr and the fact that he will be in the cabinet is a big plus for me. I hate Trump, truly. I registered Republican to vote against him in the primary but at this point I'm going to vote for him simply because the Democrats are completely controlled by people in power and are forcing us into World War 3. Trump is at least anti-war and that is very important to me if the Democrats had put in someone like Tulsa gabbard or Andrew yang I would be on board but nobody wanted Biden and nobody wants to Kamala because they are puppets. Anyway that's my take

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horror-@reddit

For the record, I was a fence sitter right up to Jan 6th. The Republican party will never get my vote again until it owns the repugnant shit T has drug it into and exercises itself of the crazy it currently seems so proud of. I think that starts with voters finally realizing that being against Trump on account of the endless despicable shit he shovels does not automatically make one a "lib" and behaving badly is still behaving badly, even if it's in the name of your political party.

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OuterLightness@reddit (OP)

What the typical American is willing to do, yes. But remember not every Republican stormed the Capitol on January 6.

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SpadeGrenade@reddit

But remember not every Republican stormed the Capitol

Which is exactly my point.

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justanotherguyhere16@reddit

I think their point is that it only takes 1 out of every 2000 or so republicans to show up and storm the capital. 35 million registered R/ 2000 capital rioters.

And for the other 1,999 to not do shit to stop them and then start rewriting history and calling them martyrs and such.

Just like not every German was a Nazi or every Italian was a facist. All it takes is for people like Mitch McConnell to block them being held accountable the 1st time to encourage something even more drastic the 2nd.

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SpadeGrenade@reddit

Well, presumably, the government will be handling the entire incident much more diligently this time around.

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justanotherguyhere16@reddit

Really? With the cult Trump even more consolidated?

Not a chance. Did you hear what Roger Stone said?

broadsidebytheship@reddit

Noting this post

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EconomistFabulous682@reddit

This threat is more relevant than any other. We are sleep walking towards tyranny

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Napnnovator@reddit

Please see this organization's research and recommendations:

https://www.google.com/search?gs_ssp=eJzj4tLP1TcwKshKKytXYDRgdGDwkkoqSs3LS8xTSE7NK0ktUkjLL1LIKi0uyUxOBQApbA5o&q=brennan+center+for+justice&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS899US900&oq=brennan+center&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqEAgBEC4YxwEYsQMY0QMYgAQyDQgAEAAY4wIYsQMYgAQyEAgBEC4YxwEYsQMY0QMYgAQyBggCEEUYOTIHCAMQABiABDIHCAQQABiABDIHCAUQABiABDIHCAYQABiABDIHCAcQABiABDIHCAgQABiABDINCAkQLhivARjHARiABNIBCDkxMjhqMGo3qAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

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disorderly@reddit

Dems will steal this one again

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collapse-ModTeam@reddit

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[-]

Rossdxvx@reddit

Personally, I think that the whole American public checked out into Disneyland a long time ago - a delusional fantasy world. The truth is, the choice has always been a bad one for us. It is mainly the rich/corporations betting on which one of their horses is going to win the race (the red or blue one). In the end, they win either way, although I think they prefer a Harris/Corporate Dem for the optics.

Don't get me wrong, a Donnie victory would be an obvious disaster, yet it will do nothing but speed up the rate of decline. Decline is like being stuck in quicksand. It is pretty clear that a lot of this country is mentally ill and sick at this point. I don't even know how a decent candidate could steer this ship around. The congress is mired in gridlock and corruption, the supreme court are a bunch of Christofascists trying to turn back the clock, and the military industrial complex has been engaged in a bungled/disastrous imperial overreach for well over two decades now. No one wants to admit on the left or right that consumer capitalism has no future if you want to save the planet. A lot of Americans are like battered housewives who love their abuser husbands. I know a lot of blue collar folks here in Michigan who are some of the hardest right people you will ever meet who openly and enthusiastically support policies that will make their lives a hell of a lot worse.

And, truth be told, Cheeto will probably win here again and by default the election.

The thing is, I am not so sure that Americans would want it any different if actually given the choice.

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onmullberystreet@reddit

The single biggest problem in the US politics is humans get away w/ referring to Dems/Libs as "the Left". Not sure which is dumber Reps calling them it, or the Libs believing it. Dems are Center Right at best.

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alibythesea@reddit

Kindly cite, with quotations, that Vice-president Harris directly uses Marxist rhetoric. And even if she does, why not? I’m a Social Democrat, but Marxian economic analysis is a useful tool.

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2xtc@reddit

I refer you to exhibit A - these people were flying literal Nazi flags at trump parade/rally over the weekend.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/neo-nazis-crash-trump-boat-parade-florida-1235133637/

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ExtraBenefit6842@reddit

Yes, Neo Nazis support Trump. Is that a surprise? They wouldn't support Democrats.

Then is Kamala a Marxist? She uses exact phrases from Marx. If she is, is she like Stalin and Mao?

You're right, Nazis don't deserve any respect, but Trump is not a Nazi. And quite frankly neither are those idiots. Real Nazis committed genocide, Ive heard the stories firsthand.

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jaynor88@reddit

There are a lot of people right now concerned that another Trump administration would actually put into place some actual Nazi tactics and programs. Trump’s words are not just rhetoric- he wants complete control, is denigrating groups of people that he doesn’t like or want around, and there are white supremacy groups marching through our cities and riding in boar parades hoisting NAZI flags.

I do not think there was any disrespect meant to any people hurt, tortured, or killed by German Nazis in Europe in the 30’s and 40’s by this person’s comment.

Europeans living in the 30’s most likely started seeing and feeling the rising hate and the slow changes in attitudes - the beginnings of Fascism. They may not have had a term to convey what was happening.

We do- we look back on the 1930’s and see so many parallels to our time. We hear his words spreading hate and fear.

Many are thinking - can the tactics and round ups like the Nazis used really happen here? We absolutely cannot ignore or minimize the parallels.

We must stop this in its tracks

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ExtraBenefit6842@reddit

That's a stretch. A bug stretch. Of all people, I assure you I do not need a history lesson. You can say whatever you want about Trump, there's plenty to criticize, he is not Hitler. It is disrespectful to the victims of Nazis because it trivializes what they went through which was actually horrific and deadly. There were White Supremacy groups around way before Trump, they are small in number and losers. Many groups right now are feds. There will always be hate.

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ExtraBenefit6842@reddit

Lol imagine downvoting this, hyperbolic losers

Well, as far as I can see the only recourse we have now is canvassing for Harris in battleground states and hoping we can get enough people to join us in voting against the wannabe dictator.

He should have been disqualified, but he hasn't been. And it seems he hasn't been due to corruption and rigging of the Supreme Court, but I still don't see how "not being okay with it" translates to anything other than mobilizing the vote against him

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diagnosedADHD@reddit

I firmly believe non Trump voters are willing to accept defeat more than Trump voters. There will likely be some resistance and protests just like 2016, but you won't see politicians trying to subvert the certification or Harris holding speeches inciting fear and hate, most likely she would work to try and calm everyone down.

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jasonmontauk@reddit

Non-Trump voter here: it would not surprise me at all if Trump won. There are too many uninformed, uneducated, maladjusted people living in this country with the power to vote.

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Equal-Air-2679@reddit

Same. I fully expect Trump may win, because many people in this country are far more misogynistic than they will ever admit

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Meowweredoomed@reddit

...because Trump should be in jail right now for sedition and insurrection, not able to run again.

I mean, fake electors, really?

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lazerayfraser@reddit

it’s all a rigged system the lines are drawn exactly the way people in power want them to be, political affiliations aside. The republicans are more brazen but the story remains the same. The rich get richer and more powerful, the people get less and less until the house of cards collapses. I think the future is an ugly one and collapse as we expect it comes either way. If we don’t nuke ourselves back to the stone age (miraculously) maybe in a couple hundred years humanity will rebuild some semblance of society but in the meantime it’s a race to the abyss. Civil war and engagements of different factions depend on the people being willing to give up the comfortable lives they currently lead. At this point the only thing that’s gonna push anyone far enough for that is turning off the internet. It’s a slow boil and we’re all the frogs

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springcypripedium@reddit

The oligarchic, 2 party (replete with absurd electoral college) system is (part of) the problem.

Dems appear to handing, once again, the election to trump. 😩

They (Dems/DNC) care more about supporting the military industrial complex/AIPAC, fracking, than preventing project 2025 and full blown, violent fascism under trump (he has told us repeatedly what he will do).

When 2/3 of the country support an arms embargo and they are ignored----that is not a democracy.

This interview speaks volumes:

https://www.democracynow.org/2024/10/15/jvp_protest_new_york_stock_exchange

Excerpt (my bold):

50 — over 50, at least, members of Congress and their spouses are invested in Raytheon and Lockheed Martin, two of the leading weapons manufacturers. So, we can see they are, quite literally, profiting from this genocide. And these are the people who are voting on increased funding and arms to the Israeli military. Our elected officials should never be able to profit off of genocide. They are there to carry out, supposedly, the will of the people.

the polls are showing that two-thirds of Americans now want an arms embargo. Two-thirds of Americans are saying that they don’t want arms to go to Israel. This is astonishing. And let’s understand it for what it is, which is an extraordinary win by the Palestinian-led movement for Palestinian liberation. And, of course, we see the Biden administration not listening. We see Congress not listening. All of us are asking, “Why is this?”

Well, first of all, it’s because we don’t live in a democracy. They don’t have to listen to us. It is for their own imperial and financial interests. It is for their own interests in controlling the region, which have been broken open and uncovered in so many of the interviews you’ve done here on Democracy Now! And it’s for their financial interests and financial gain, because we know of the corporate control of this country.

Hi, nullzeroerror. Thanks for contributing. However, your comment was removed from /r/collapse for:

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[-]

Proteus_Dagon@reddit

I say curb your hysteria and get out of your collapse bubble, not one of the horror scenarios you describe will happen. I swear you guy are just neurotic and hype each other up 90% of the time which casts a bad light on us and the 10% of instances where hysteria is actually appropriate which will be ignored because of posts like this and people like you).

RemindMe! 1 month

[-]

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[-]

DarkVandals@reddit

I know you are wrong because dems will def accept a legitimate loss. But I think history has shown us who will not.

[-]

And the logical conclusion to this is that they may have to accept the end of democracy because the will of the majority demands it, it has been written about for a long time how fragile liberal democracies are to this exact scenario. The only thing going for the US right now is the emperor Cheetoh appears to be losing his mind and Vance is just an opportunist average politician.

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orlyyarlylolwut@reddit

What kind of half-baked conspiracy shit is this? What in the world makes you think Democrats won't accept a legitimate Trump win?

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OuterLightness@reddit (OP)

Neither side doesn’t mean Republican vs Democrat. It means Trump supporter vs Harris supporter. Some people will vote for Harris who do not consider themselves Democrat because they oppose what Trump represents.

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orlyyarlylolwut@reddit

"Some people." What a bad faith stretch, buddy. MOST people voting for Trump think the election was stolen from him. MOST people voting for Harris believe in the rule of law.

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Perfecshionism@reddit

OP trying to “both sides” election denying in 2024.

You don't just have the last 4 years - you have the last 8 years.

in 2016 Trump won. Dems protested lawfully.

In 2020 Biden won. MAGA stormed the Capitol.

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SunnySummerFarm@reddit

I protested lawfully in 2016. I made a whole lotta changes in my life since then, and while I don’t intend to break the law, I’m definitely prepared to deal with the risks of the current situation much better then I was eight years ago.

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kdenathrius@reddit

Great way to put it, I've gone through a similar transformation and gathered new skills.

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emseefely@reddit

Here’s how you sound:

Will the party that didn’t start an insurrection cause an insurrection?

This isn't even remotely a "both sides" thing as far as reactions go. If the American people choose Trump, Dems will absolutely accept the results without all the equivocations Republicans have just like they did in 2016. We'll all be equally screwed if that happens but what you will see is zero sympathy towards those that voted for him as the economy crashes due to mass deportations, across the board tariffs etc. They'll will also likely be a lot of migration withing the country for those able to afford to do so with people moving out of red states and into blue ones out of fear and necessity.

What you won't see is just a knee-jerk violent reaction to Trump winning 270 electoral votes when the same won't be said for Harris reaching 270. The only violence you will see out of the left will be proportional to how much a Trump administration starts targeting the "enemy within" as he keeps saying. If Trump really started jailing his opponents and everyday people are targeted, that's when you'd see the left starting to rebel.

rotzak@reddit

It's a shit situation for everyone in general if the nazis win.

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Omfggtfohwts@reddit

The best part is that my vote is just that, my vote. Nobody is allowed to coerse or intimidate at the voting booths. That's why we have a curtain to take cover behind when we vote. ;)

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cyberphlash@reddit

Because Dems have such a long long history of... checks notes... accepting the elections of GW Bush and first election of Trump?

I'm wondering what's going to happen if Trump wins and then, in November, gets sentenced to prison for his 34 felonies in NY. Would be interesting to see what kind of attack MAGA mounts then, because you know they're not going to accept that result either.

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Vegetaman916@reddit

One of his first acts will no doubt be a blanket pardon for himself. That's a no-brainer...

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Slippery for sure, lol. If the polls looked different, we might have some action at something, but right now I think everyone wants to keep their asses covered...

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illumi-thotti@reddit

GOP and their supporter if Trump loses: attempt to overthrow the government and assassinate politicians again

Dems and their supporters if Kamala loses: "We've done absolutely nothing and we're all out of ideas!"

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Jim-Jones@reddit

Joe Biden can have Trump arrested. And he has immunity.

And maybe he could round up some of the SCOTUS members while he's at it.

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absolutebeginners@reddit

No, they will revolt, which will then “justify” him in using military force and imperial means in silencing all his foes.

lol no they wont

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HeadCartoonist2626@reddit

Pussy hats and hashtags would be about all one could expect from the Dems. Historically liberals go along and don't make trouble when right wing governments take power. The same would happen again if Trump returns.

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HusavikHotttie@reddit

Repubes will be the only ones who do that.

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lets_try_civility@reddit

What a clueless post.

That's not what happened when Trump won last time. It's not what happened when SCOTUS stopped the counts and gave the election to Bush.

So you're basing your comments on fuck all.

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mcapello@reddit

I don't think either scenario is actually all that likely.

If the Democrats lose legitimately, they'll accept the defeat.

If the Democrats lose illegitimately, they'll fight in the courts, not on the streets. There will be protests, but probably nothing very significant, and probably nothing on the scale of the George Floyd protests.

If Trump loses, it doesn't really matter if he loses legitimately or illegitimately, since he's already cried "wolf" and literally no one expects him to accept the outcome anyway.

So this really comes down to whether or not Trump's base of support is influential enough to reverse the results if he loses, and I think the answer is "no", because while he has managed to create a new inner core to his organization that will be willing to follow through on a coup in a way that Pence and Barr were not, it has come at the cost of any inside players or other competent actors who might actually be able to make such a move possible.

This is always the double-edge of surrounding yourself with sycophants and opportunists in order to make sure there is everyone is willing to do your bidding, regardless of how foolish or short-sighted your goals are: yes, you might be able to buy that level of compliance, but not the competence needed for it to be worth anything.

People become sycophants and opportunists for a reason, and usually that reason is because the traditional routes were closed to them on account of being unfit rejects. Being surrounded by a bunch of "yes men" doesn't do you much good when those people are a crew of dysfunctional clowns.

A second January 6th will fail even faster than the first.

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STL_Tim@reddit

If the Democrats lose illegitimately, they'll fight in the courts, not on the streets. There will be protests, but probably nothing very significant, and probably nothing on the scale of the George Floyd protests.

I'm not so sure about this, I agree Dems will grudgingly accept a legitimate Trump victory. But if one (or more) entire state's votes are blatently thrown in the trash through some chicanery in order to manipulate the Electoral College outcome, that's something else. That is telling millions of people their votes didn't count. That would be a true first in our era of unprecendented events. Ending Democracy that way, in favor of what Trumpists appear to stand for, this should enrage all the people who hit the streets for BLM, everyone who supports Marriage Equality, reproductive rights, climate activists, you name it. It's far bigger than any single cause. And it's tossing millions of people's votes down the sh*tter. I don't know, but I think it could have a bigger response than folks think.

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mcapello@reddit

It didn't the last time Trump won, and it also didn't when they stole the election from Gore. I know people are scared about this, but I can't really take it too seriously if it hasn't happened before under similar circumstances.

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Cowicidal@reddit

replaced by civil war

How would that work?

Midlife ISIS isn't used to any effort beyond waddling around complaining and their arteries are clogged from too much red meat. The steroided-out gym bros will have heart attacks if they do anything aerobic. The crossfit idiots will break quickly because they've overstressed their limbs on a ritual basis because conservative idiots can't mentally grasp the concept of moderation, nuance and proper research for health or anything else.

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BadAsBroccoli@reddit

We on the left have not just the Presidential election to win, but also getting rid of the disruptive MAGA element in the House of Representatives and increasing the Democratic majority in the Senate, lessening the chances of more Republican-for-Hire Democrats like Sinema and Manchin.

Accomplishing any of these three will stymie the Republican swamp. The danger to our democracy is far larger and wide spread than just keeping Trump from office, his sickness has spread all the way down through the states governments and to local Boyz and Cops.

Accomplishing all three will give Ms. Harris the best opportunity to prove herself with the least amount of governmental obstruction.

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Morrowindsofwinter@reddit

Dems aint doing shit if Trump wins.

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sl3eper_agent@reddit

It's very bold of you to assume that Democrats will do anything other than stand by solemnly and say there's nothing more they can do

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OuterLightness@reddit (OP)

Not all Republicans are MAGA.

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jaynor88@reddit

At this point the “Republicans Party” IS MAGA.

What used to be the Republican Party is dead and gone.

Neither Trump nor MAGA pretend to be fiscally conservative or to follow any of the previous GOP policies.

A person registered as Republican who respects our Constitution, separation of church &State, 3 Separate Beanches of Federal Government, Rule of Law, and our institutions CANNOT vote Trump.

Trump’s plan is to dismantle all of it to fit his whims.

If the ONLY reason they would vote Trump is to ensure the Government outlaws abortion, then they also dismantle their societal structure.

So someone who is registered Republican but is not MAGA can 1: vote Harris to make sure Trump doesn’t get in to the White House, or 2: vote 3rd party or write-in so Trumps doesn’t get in to White House.

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NikiDeaf@reddit

So according to the OP, regardless of what happens in the election, the troops will be out and blood will flow.

Yet Trump was unable to cling to power even as an incumbent president, a position with much, MUCH greater power and influence than he has now, even after refusing to concede defeat, a relentless campaign of lies, and finally an attempt to physically intimidate Congress on January 6th.

In addition, we saw this same kinda thing before the elections in 2020 and 2022 too…oh boy, watch out, the blood is really gonna flow now guys! Democracy is done for! Civil war part dos bouta pop off homeboy, just look at what all these LARPers and lunatics are saying on social media!!

Then nothing happens. Or at least not anything near the level of what was predicted.

No, just flat out wrong. Can't see the forest for the trees.

The GOP plan depends on apathetic and ignorant voters. The vast majority of voters, even the ones relatively informed on this presidential race, tend to completely overlook that there are other races on the ballot.

Traditionally, the federal government does little for domestic affairs and everyday life. They might occasionally pull out some bangers, but the majority of their day to day job is setting the budget and foreign affairs.

Your everyday life is impacted for more by down ballot local races. Every time someone in a red state opines about how useless voting for the president is one more person being disillusioned and prevented from voting locally. Local judges, local politicians, school boards etc, are all local races and votes that are included in every federal ballot.

You're tired of road conditions? Your federal senator doesn't give a fuck or even realize. However your state senator is the one actually securing funds to fix 'em. Same with schools, fire departments, etc. You can even go to a town meeting and debate this stuff directly. Be involved. The big bad guys are pulled from state parties. Don't help them elect more bad guys for the national offices. Cut them off at the start.

Every person with this attitude needs to stop ignoring local races and vote in local elections. These things move from bottom up, not top down. Literally, be the change you want to see. Stop busying yourself lamenting the suffering of people outside your community and actually engage with yours and make it better.

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Legal-Effort8151@reddit

Did you mean to reply to a different comment? Not sure how what you’re saying relates to mine

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Trauma_Hawks@reddit

Uh yeah. Looks like I probably did. It's still a valid opinion, though.

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Ready4Rage@reddit

Turnip, possibly the first US dictator, did not come from the bottom up. The policies at the top do affect local issues, i.e., trade wars, inflation, ending Soc Sec & medicare or the Dept of Education. I'm voting but the contrarian position to the elites not allowing a revolution or the Dems rolling over & accepting it has no historical precedent

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Trauma_Hawks@reddit

Turnip, possibly the first US dictator, did not come from the bottom up.

He absolutely did. He's just a patsy. But he wouldn't be there without a strong base in Congress. That base is the Tea Party Republicans. They got voted in by people in local races. Trump is the last stop on a train that's been underway since the early 2000s.

This isn't a medieval coup. They're not going to come in the middle of one night and change everything. They placed the little people to soften the public. They used the little people to catapult medium people into congress so they could secure the big person. They used the medium people to install various cabinet/department members, judges, military officers, etc. Without the base of small people, they'd never be able to pull off the infiltration they did without obviously forcing it.

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yousorename@reddit

There’s been a tone shift over the last few weeks and it seems like the trump campaign has kinda taken it’s foot off the gas from “normal” campaigning. At the same time, a lot of suspect polls coming out showing that it’s a dead heat. I’m just some dummy, but I feel like this is a calculated decision to “allow” a Harris blowout so that they can claim that the whole thing is OBVIOUSLY stolen and have more momentum to contest it.

They would contest a close 51/49 situation also, but I just have a bad feeling that they’re banking on something more like 55/45 to outrage and activate more people which is why they’re pushing so hard on “the enemy within” and “illegals are voting” messaging right now. Things will get dicey if some states dig in their heels and refuse to certify their results and things escalate until guns start coming out and someone makes a mistake.

But, as others have pointed out, this is FULLY a GOP problem and not normal in any way at all! And I think if trump does somehow win fair and square, dems will pretty much roll over, we’ll carve out a tri-polar world power structure with China and Russia, NATO and the EU will eventually fracture and collapse, and the US will slip into an authoritarian Christian theocracy for the next generation.

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VruKatai@reddit

If Trump wins "fair and square" of course Dems will "roll over". The dipshit will have one fairly.

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If the Democrats had even half as much of a spine as OP seems to think they do we wouldn't even be in this situation in the first place.

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yarrpirates@reddit

Nope, Dems will roll over like Al Gore in 2000, because they mostly don't care enough about the result to give up their precious fucking decorum. The actual politicians, I mean.

They're all rich, they won't be the immediate targets of the MAGA cult, and if they are, money can mostly shield them. They probably think they can always run to Europe if it gets proper fash. And they're right.

No offense but this is obviously not true. The dems won’t do shit

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BoredMan29@reddit

Will the Democrats then say all is well and let a man who has openly declared his dictatorial intentions take office? No, they will revolt, which will then “justify” him in using military force and imperial means in silencing all his foes.

Like we don't have precedent for this? No, the Dems won't revolt. March with pussy hats, maybe. Also, if Republicans aren't in power they won't really be able to use the military. I get that you're catastrophizing, but you'll be better prepared for likely outcomes if you try to ground things a little more in reality. There's no civil war coming. If Trump wins there'll be oppression and perhaps (though given his age I think it's unlikely) a push to make any votes more or less meaningless. If Harris wins there's probably be some stochastic terrorism. Don't get me wrong, the US is headed in a terrible direction, but the climax isn't right around the corner and arresting it's descent isn't impossible.

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ILearnedTheHardaway@reddit

Dems will do absolutely nothing like the spineless cowards they are. Expecting the other side of the same coin to do anything is just not working with the reality of the situation.

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naked_feet@reddit

But what if he wins? Will the Democrats then say all is well and let a man who has openly declared his dictatorial intentions take office? No, they will revolt

LOL. No they/we won't.

The Democratic party is the most cowardly collection of politicians that's existed in this country in probably 200 years. Every time they have "power" they do nothing with it, and just let Republicans block everything.

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Maj0r-DeCoverley@reddit

Speaking from a country which served as a freaking laboratory for such scenarios (guys, the first time we used universal suffrage we elected the nephew of Napoleon, compared to that Trump is an amateur)

I completely agree on what you say the Republicans will do. Now there's a limiting factor: the army. They don't have the army, it's been made very clear after the Capitol attack. I'll always remember your governors and generals basically saying to your troops "don't any of you dare to move against our republic". Between the lines, that was the message, and that message was consistent from San Diego to Boston.

The Republicans don't have the elites either, not enough of them. Even great Republicans from the Bush era spoke against Trump. Trump could purge them... But he don't have the army.

On the other hand, if he wins the Democrats will do nothing. As long as he keeps business as usual, Democrat elites won't move. They'll even prefer to have such an easy enemy, it puts them in an underdog position without having to actually care for the people. Just for abstract rights (abortion, minorities, etc). If anything the people you should be most wary about are the most centrist democrats, they're the kind of people voting full power to a Philippe Pétain (for instance) for the sake of stability. The Republicans will vote the same but saying "we'll control him" ("we will push him in a corner of the room so hard he will squeak", so they said about a certain Hitler).

I said it before, I'll say it again: nothing will happen before you have YOUNG leaders. Trump is way too old to start anything bad, and his opposition is almost as gerontocratic.

The day you have a 35 years old Trump, that day you can expect SHTF in a "end of the republic" way.

Demographics matters more than anything else in those scenarios. What you risk here is not the end of your regime or a revolution, Americans are too old and obese for any of that (sorry). What you risk is to slowly switch towards whatever Russia is doing: crumbling infrastructures, old people in the countryside being fed hilarious lies about the world, vanity wars, oligarchy.

tnemmoc_on@reddit

Why do you think the Democrats won't accept defeat? History shows they do that just fine.

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Similar_Resort8300@reddit

he won't use military fore b/c biden is in office until jan 21

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squailtaint@reddit

I’ll bet none of that happens.

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AntiauthoritarianSin@reddit

Nothing will happen after the election. The American population is way too decrepit, apathetic and compliant to riot.

A second Trump presidency would be worse than the first, since all of the peripheral characters have their act together a lot better, but remember the first time? You had aircraft controllers on strike within days of his more ambitious moves. Those aren't liberals, they're former military that consider themselves patriots. You'd see quite a split between a large anti-Trump majority and the radical right frantically attempting to consolidate power. It's not really happening without the consent of the military though.