Trying to figure out how to get Coaxial or Fibre to a Warehouse in Sacramento

Posted by yanni99@reddit | sysadmin | View on Reddit | 43 comments

We have Starlink and a Wiline Antena that cost us more than 1200$ a month and the service is not reliable enough for our needs.

I can't believe there is no provider that serves this area. This is in 95828. Right in the middle of a urbanized city. I am from Montreal and never add to deal with US providers (thank god) until now, so I am no expert on how it works around there.

So far, I have been quoted as 27k$ installation fee by Comcast and 1500$/month by AT&T. I've looked, at Frontier and Sonic, but no response so far.

Are there any Internet California expert or is there such a thing as a internet broker? We just need a reliable 30mbps connection. Is that so hard to get in the middle of Sacramento? I don't even need a dedicated line.

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SpiritualAd8998@reddit

I wonder if you could get a microwave link from a nearby building?

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RCTID1975@reddit

I have been quoted as 27k$ installation fee by Comcast

That's about right.

If there's no line there, you either pay up front for the install, or they roll it into your monthly fee on a contract.

Do you want reliability, or cheaper costs? You're not going to get both here.

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yanni99@reddit (OP)

Yeah, I starting to get it now, but this is in the middle of a big urbanized environement. That's what makes no sense to me. I'm of course not on site, but it seems crazy to me that there are no Coax or Fiber running through the neigbourhood.

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Saucetheb0ss@reddit

It might be worth reaching out to other businesses in the area to see what they are using / how they are getting internet. If there are other businesses in the area there has to be a provider out there, maybe just not one you've spoken to yet! Good luck.

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Natural-Tree-5107@reddit

https://broadbandmap.fcc.gov/home is the best place to start looking at potential internet available at any address.

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goot449@reddit

Conversely, you can get them to sign up to switch and all split the installation costs.

ISPs had no incentive to run modern lines to industrial areas that historically didn’t need anything more than phone or T1.

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bobsmith1010@reddit

that what i had dealt with. I worked in an area we only had really crappy dsl no fiber. So one business wanted fiber and we all jointly work with the local cable company and we were able to split the rate. The one guy at the cable company told me if they know there enough demand in an area they'll pay for it but the calculations has to show they'll make the money back in x amount of time.

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fuzzylogic_y2k@reddit

From experience, if it's at your curb, they can wrap the build out cost into a 3 year term. 27k is what it costs to cross one street. Meaning it's fairly close by but they need permits and will need to line bore under a street.

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RCTID1975@reddit

There's a difference between running through the neighborhood and running into your building.

Warehouses are typically very large buildings rather than a complex of offices. As such, there's no incentive for ISPs to run cabling if the only business present doesn't intend on using their services.

27k from Comcast tells me there's likely cable running down the closest main artery street and they need to run that "last mile" to your building. This likely involves closing streets which is insanely expensive

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bs0nlyhere@reddit

As I started reading paragraph 2 I was thinking, “Comcast pretty much always sends me $30k quotes for anything they’re nearby” so I laughed when that’s what you got 😂

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MisterIT@reddit

For that price, honestly spending a few hundred bucks to test whether the business could live with a satellite link might be worthwhile depending on your size and scale. It’s come a long way.

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uncleirohism@reddit

Reach out to Cogent, they’re the closest thing to a fiberoptic “broker” as you’re going to get and honestly, their service and support are tops. I’ve got my fingers crossed for you that they can help.

https://www.cogentco.com/en/

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anxiousinfotech@reddit

I mean, I used to be a big fan of Cogent. We had offices in a number of their on-net buildings.

They've had a crapload of peering issues in the past few years, usually because they get into a pissing contest with another carrier. We had services that were fine for ages and then suddenly Cogent decides they're at war with Comcast or Level3 or whoever else and connectivity goes to shit. I wouldn't risk using them anymore.

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uncleirohism@reddit

It depends on the location, usually big modern cities in the continental US are the safest bets because what you said about Cogent is also true about other providers as well. Many, many commercial buildings and properties/neighborhoods are wired directly to cogent’s network, while others just share nodes with competitors. Those on-net properties are still the sweet spot and I’m managing a client in a metropolitan area located in a cogent building, full gig up/down and 8 IP’s for about $1K/month. 99.9% uptime and the best support I’ve ever had from a commercial ISP.

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CulinaryComputerWiz@reddit

This isn't surprising for California. Our ISP options suck compared to other areas. My office is literally 4 blocks from Intel Headquarters and less than 5 miles from Google and my only options are AT&T or Comcast at over $1400/month for 1G/1G fiber. Our office outside of Portland, OR has 1G fiber for less than $300/month.

There are other providers but they are all just leasing space from AT&T or Comcast as they own all the lines.

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jstar77@reddit

That installation cost from Comcast seems outrageous unless there is some sort of extremely complex or expensive installation factor. I had Comcast install a 500Mb EPL to a site and they had to run nearly 1/2 mile of fiber through the city. There was no installation fee once I committed to a 3 year term. I engaged with a local isp earlier this year who ran 3 miles of fiber for a dedicated circuit through a very rural area with a 6 year contract they waived installation. I was also involved with Frontier bringing fiber circuit about a mile down the road,I can't remember the exact install cost but it was reasonable.

Most recently in a residential setting Frontier direct buried 2000' of fiber across my property for a 1 year commitment of $29.99 a month with no installation charge. The local cable company wanted $15,000 a few years ago to bring cable/internet to my house.

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Tduck91@reddit

Same, about 5 miles of fiber for 4 ens connections and they ate it with a 3 year contract. Took some time for them to get all the permits because it was 4 locations in 4 states but they made it work.

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FireITGuy@reddit

Have you looked at the FCC broadband map to see what the surrounding buildings have? There may be an option you're not seeing such as a local ISP.

https://broadbandmap.fcc.gov/

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Yomat@reddit

27K is reasonable. You’re asking them to do a custom run.

At least your run is doable. One location I tried to get a run for was under a freeway and between two train tracks. When I called about it, they said the ISP would split the cost with me if it opened up service options to other businesses (it would).

1 week later they called me back and let me know that:

1) They were not going to proceed, but promised a call back, so here it is.

2) The cost of the run would be $4.7 million dollars.

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Igot1forya@reddit

A place I worked at was about to get around the limited access to internet by installing a arial tower and using a point-to-point radio we worked out with the local water department to get a radio installed on their water tower as a relay to a doghouse with basic cable internet. It was a ton of hoops with the local municipality and they charged us like $400/m for the space on their water tower plus a couple hundred for the cable Internet, but it worked. If you can get line-of-sight to an established location with Internet, you might be able to achieve your goal.

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TesNikola@reddit

Try contacting sales directly for the transport providers like Cogent, Level 3, Windstream, etc. I would imagine many of the larger carriers in your area have routes near you.

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pescado01@reddit

Why do you need fiber for 30mbps?
Have you thought about cellular?

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yanni99@reddit (OP)

I don't need fiber, Coax, even ADSL would do the job. I just need physical link

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pescado01@reddit

Why the need for a physical link?

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tectail@reddit

He put in his post that it is not reliable enough for the company. From my experience with cellular network, don't expect a VPN connection or anything that needs a constant flow to be reliable. A lot of ERP software needs a reliable connection, and only a physical connection will do that. Not a speed issue, just an uptime, jitter, and other non-speed related issue likely.

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BossSAa@reddit

The cellular could be a nice option, but depends on the needs of the OP

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QPC414@reddit

Come up with some solid finalists you want to get solid quotes from, and have them do a proper survey to determine the actual construction needs. Some of those quotes may just be documentation generated, and may not reflect reality.

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RedditUser84658@reddit

We got Comcast to roll the construction cost into a longer term deal. Worth a try. Surprised starlink is so bad for you though. Maybe an issue with the dish?

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yarrowy@reddit

Why would you ever get satellite internet unless its the last option? The latency is so bad

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_Crazy8s@reddit

We have starlink as backup ISP. Lag is like low 30s, compared to our hardline at low 20s.

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kona420@reddit

Starlink is very competitive on latency, in my testing it was actually lower latency than fiber over 3000 miles. The extra 100 miles to orbit is offset by light traveling 15-20% faster in a vacuum.

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RedditUser84658@reddit

Starlink is much better that the DirecTV/Hughes of yesteryear and perfectly fine for most usage. With only a 30 Mbps pipe needed, I would guess that consistent low latency is not a requirement.

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Kakabef@reddit

You have a few options, you can try to figure out why starlink is so bad and if there is something you can do about it. Starlink does have a business plan, and you can use two starlink accounts to mitigate the cap if that is a problem. As someone else mentioned, you can do point to point. I have done this from a few meters and the longest distance was 17 miles; very reliable. If budget is an issue, i would visit my neighbors with a clear line of sight, and see who is their provider, see if they would be willing to have your internet connection land at their site, and use point to point for the last mile (for a nominal fee of course).

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spetcnaz@reddit

Yes, there are internet brokers, however they are not magicians. If there is no physical line there, that $27k, which sounds about right, needs to be recouped somehow.

Some brokers are small ISPs themselves, and they offer fast wireless Internet through point to point infrastructure. One company we work with in LA, and they cover all of CA is TierZero. Great guys to work with, www.tierzero.com call and ask for Mike in sales. He will break it down for you and your options.

Also, look into T-Mobile Inseego routers. They are $50 a month and in a good area you get up to 500 Mbps down and 40 Mbps up.

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Mlyonff@reddit

I’m a broker, feel free to DM me.

Also, read your WiLine contract with a fine tooth comb. They have an auto-renew clause and its nasty!

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anonymousITCoward@reddit

are there any structures near by with fiber? if so you could run your internet into that building, and do a wireless shot... we've done this over a few miles with good results, just make sure your antennae are mounted securely...

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Crenorz@reddit

In Ontario it's 25k to start for a new Fiber install. Then they charge per KM to the node. We paid $55k to install and were 35km away from the nearest node.

When starlink starts deploying v2 of the sat's it will be much better. But your talking 1-3 years ish for full NA coverage.

They keep updating the receivers so look to see if you can get an update.

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yanni99@reddit (OP)

I did new builds in Quebec and they only charged us from the pole to the Warehouse. Never add to pay for them to bring fiber to the pole. And I've scheduled installs in places that were way more remote than this one. Maybe I was lucky.

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EastDallasMatt@reddit

More remote places probably had less red tape to deal with, so it's cheaper.

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anxiousinfotech@reddit

Lots of buildings were built without any thought to getting internet access to them. Either the internet just didn't exist at the time, and/or there was no need for it by the previous occupant(s). We've had upper management about to sign a lease on a new space only to find out there was no internet available and it would cost a fortune & take forever to get installed.

$27k sounds about right for Comcast to get coax run to you through a parking lot where there's no existing conduit they can use. We've been quoted similar costs by them in the past.

AT&T has a habit of just giving you a quote, getting you to sign a contract, then dragging out the process for months before eventually cancelling your order when they determine that it's actually too difficult (for their taste) to get fiber to your building.

If you really want dedicated fiber service, check out Crown Castle. At least in the past we used them to get service into buildings that didn't have fiber available, and they would spread the build cost out over the term of the contract vs requiring payment up front. That's one of the main reasons we used them, because others wanted the cash up front. I'd check whether they have a footprint in Sacramento but their map page appears to be down at the moment.

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