Boeing prepares layoff notices for thousands of workers as turmoil deepens

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Majakowski@reddit

A grand move. Workers are such a liability to a company. They should fire all of them so management can finally pay their wages to themselves.

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Evilbred@reddit

Exactly.

The workers actually comprise the majority of the costs in Boeing.

Imagine what the profit margins would be if they could just divide revenue by management wages?

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dragonfly907@reddit

I know you meant sarcasm, but just to give additional context, the cost of paying workers ( who do the mechanical jobs) is less than 5 percent of the total costs of building Boeing jets.

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Mattias44@reddit

Are you only counting Final Assembly and Flight Line/Delivery Center mechanics? I'd love to know where you got that figure.

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This_Marionberry_306@reddit

It has been relativity known for years, C17 study peg it at 6% of cost of the aircraft. Anytime Boeing has layoffs, it to invigorate the Stockholders and Wall Street... an old ploy known for years...

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Mattias44@reddit

Sounds like lore to me. It's not 5%, lol.

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TickTockPick@reddit

To be fair, they are competing against a company from Europe, where unions are unheard of.

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MajorProcrastinator@reddit

Trade unions have been around (documented) for at least 200 years in Europe. Airbus has unions and they strike.

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PotentialMidnight325@reddit

Stock buybacks. Imagine how many shares they could buy. Oh that juicy shareholder value.

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Thurak0@reddit

https://www.commondreams.org/news/boeing-mass-layoffs

2010-2019: $68 billions

https://www.reddit.com/r/boeing/comments/1ff9gyp/boeing_spent_43billion_in_share_buybacks_between/

2013-2019: $43 billion on stock buybacks between 2013 and 2019 – more than its total profits during that period

Laws against stock buybacks would be nice; companies will just destroy themselves for shareholder value.

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Isn't it cheaper just to pay the machinists? The difference between what was offered and what was asked for isn't more than a couple hundred million a year, and they're already done multiple billions in strike expenses, not to mention blowing up goodwill with absolutely every stakeholder.

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SubarcticFarmer@reddit

I posted this further in but think you should see this as a direct reply.

It seems to me that the biggest sticking point is that last time the machinists got a new contract boeing came back later and said "we will move production to non union shops if you don't give concessions." The machinists learned their lesson and don't want anything that doesn't have job security guarantees now.

Boeing offered the 797 but it had a caveat that boeing had to start the design process by a certain time or the commitment was void. In other words they could just wait until the next day to "officially m" start it and repeat the threats from last time.

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Signal_Quarter_74@reddit

Could corporate wait and then 24 hours later start? Yes of course. But as someone deep in the mix here and will be on the design and development of the 797, the second it can happen it’s go time. The last I read of the proposal, it’s “if the project starts in the next 4 years”.

That’s not the first plane made in 4 years, that’s just the beginning of the project. So design goals, announcements, first drawings, etc. Boeing corporate desperately needs new product. And it needs to ensure that the next one won’t have the manufacturing issues that the last one did. Best way to ensure that is to keep the knowledge base and manufacturing lines in Renton and make the majority of it in Wichita (whose contracts are nearing renewal so I’m watching this very very closely). And to do it as soon as possible so it can make beat the A320 replacement to market.

I’m calling BS that that’s what’s holding this up from the Wichita engineers perspective. The hold up is pensions which are never ever ever ever coming back in any major company. Sucks for the older workers, better for corporate and most younger workers. Hope we can make that 401K match go from good to great and get an overhaul to the sick day system and get some better guarantees but this making this the hill to die on just hurts everyone

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SubarcticFarmer@reddit

If it is that likely then it shouldn't be a problem for Boeing to not put a time limit down. I am not a Boeing employee but I know how important that type if protection is and the few striking workers I have spoken with agree. They don't care about a pension but don't trust that language for job protections (and I wouldn't either).

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midsprat123@reddit

So basically wanting to avoid what happened with the 787?

They closed the union production line and moved production to the non-union plant?

Fuck the executives

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SubarcticFarmer@reddit

Exactly. The best pay and work rules in the world are worthless if the jobs go away.

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RevoOps@reddit (OP)

I think the biggest sticking point is that Union wants to move to "old school" guaranteed pensions.

That could be very expensive for Boeing and set a precedent where everyone would be asking for those, instead of 401k contributions.

Hope they are forced to concede on this

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SubarcticFarmer@reddit

The biggest sticking point is that last time the machinists got a new contract boeing came back later and said "we will move production to non union shops if you don't give concessions." The machinists learned their lesson and don't want anything that doesn't have job security guarantees now.

Boeing offered the 797 but it had a caveat that boeing had to start the design process by a certain time or the commitment was void. In other words they could just wait until the next day to "officially m" start it and repeat the threats from last time.

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SoManyEmail@reddit

Pensions, while great for retirees, absolutely killed companies.

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SherryJug@reddit

Because, as we all know, companies are the most important thing in the world and people shouldn't matter. We live in a world made by the companies, for the companies, after all

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DankVectorz@reddit

Can’t get paid a pension if the company folds

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ArbeiterUndParasit@reddit

One thing that I learned recently is that "traditional" pension plans were actually a very brief phenomenon in the US. They largely emerged during/after WW2 and they were never a really financially responsible move. In some ways they were a tool for corporate executives to give in to worker demands with money that their successors would be responsible for paying. It was a pretty big moral hazard.

As someone else on here said a good 401(k) with generous matching is what workers should be fighting for. Or hell, don't even do matching, just have the company put in 10% as a direct contribution. Defined benefit pensions reduce worker mobility and try to tie them to one company for life.

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bjornbamse@reddit

I don't understand why pension is supposed to goon the company rather than on the national government. Already Otto von Bismarck has figured that out and he wasn't even a socialist.

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WaterChicken007@reddit

Old school pensions are dead and aren't coming back. I also view them as a risk because they aren't 100% guaranteed even if they are advertised as such. I would much prefer a good 401k with generous company matching that I can take with me when I move jobs. The days of loyalty between companies and their employees is dead, from both directions.

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Tenableg@reddit

They ruined this company. A great company ruined by lack of attention to people and the people that manage the everyday details.

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Rickreation@reddit

Blame management! Good god man, the blame rests entirely on the hourly workers who are responsible!

I will be worshiping at my alter to Ronald Reagan if you need me.

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Vast_Science_5735@reddit

This was the merger and Jack Welch management that destroyed Boeing not the employees Obv you are talking through your poop pipe

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Rickreation@reddit

I think it was the penny pinchers from Lockheed that helped destroy Boeing but it protects the guilty to blame to workers.

I wish there was a font for satirical comments.

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canttakethshyfrom_me@reddit

Insatiably destructive owners like Blackrock, the incestuous board they elected, who hired the Jack Welch scion management.

A fish rots from the head.

Bankruptcy court needs to sell it to the unions members for $0.25 on the dollar financed by a federal loan, if we're gonna get Boeing back on its feet.

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Tenableg@reddit

The good ole days, huh.

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Rickreation@reddit

Before we knew better.

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Shredding_Airguitar@reddit

This is honestly what happens when you go from Engineering minded CEOs and leadership to financial bean counters and a bunch of MBAs. Same story for any engineering company that stops innovating and/or begins to sink in quality.

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Tenableg@reddit

Important point. 😊

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aviaate350A@reddit

. Who ya like. Politics… who do you “vibe with mess”

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Schruef@reddit

What?

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Blueberry_Mancakes@reddit

A company that used to be all about the engineers and who used to value its workers now defer to the shareholders. They should have never taken on MD.

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cromagnone@reddit

This is what capitalism is. This death of a titan is intended, and necessary, and capital can be redeployed to make more profit in the seeds that germinate in the space it leaves. You want a state-sponsored conglomerate manufacturing empire, the entire country maybe needs to step back from small-statism and look across the Pacific for inspiration. But complaining the MBAs are eating all the good stuff is just ignorant: it’s what they do, it’s what they’re for. You don’t get to complain about big government and then mourn it when it’s gone.

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jetsetstate@reddit

WTF is this word salad? Could you rephrase and make a point? I mean, I know what you're tryin' to say, but it is not easy to extract.

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cromagnone@reddit

Jesus. It’s like engineers don’t know what to do with words. Fine. The system is working as intended.

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automated_rat@reddit

Airbus execs busting out the champagne

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jetsetstate@reddit

This is r/aviation, a tautology is not helpful.

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automated_rat@reddit

Huh?

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Upstairs-Carry-6426@reddit

All the fucking crybaby button pushers need to get their lazy asses back to work. They don’t even realize how many people they are fucking over now. Typical union workers lazy as fuck

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Mr_Lumbergh@reddit

McDonnell Douglas bought Boeing with Boeing’s own money, and infected it with a laser focus on stock price. The ruin of the primary asset (company and reputation) has also now ruined the value of the secondary asset they put so much focus on.

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UpsetBirthday5158@reddit

Just move everything to south carolina, washington unions have ruined boeing

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Autoslats@reddit

Are you aware that Boeing's SC operation, which is not unionized, is also a complete shit show?

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automated_rat@reddit

Fuck off with your anti union horseshit

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HabANahDa@reddit

How many executives? 🤔

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jimirs@reddit

Glad they couldn't manage to buy (steal) Embraer and destroy it either.

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acuet@reddit

At this point, waiting for what the Saudi’s have said prior. File Chapter 11 and restructure. Because the current administration, is what got you to this place and removed all the Engineers that made you this great company.

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PuddlesRex@reddit

If by "chapter 11," you mean "government bailout with no changes or lessons learned." Then yeah, probably. Every single politician in DC would have to be dead and buried before they let a defense contractor go bankrupt.

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Davito32@reddit

It wasn't they Saudis it was Emirates President who is not middle eastern

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fightmilk22@reddit

Layoff the Boeing management if you want to fix the company

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Overwatchingu@reddit

CEO: “Well we’ve successfully cut costs just in time for the year end bonuses”

Board: “But what about our ability to build airplanes and fulfill sales?”

CEO: “That’s next quarter’s problem, and I’ll have moved on to my next corporate cash cow by then”

Board: “understandable, here’s $50million for all your hard work and brilliant decisions”

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Kerhnoton@reddit

This is how unironically many corporations work. Especially since a significant share in virtually every corporation is held by Blackrock et al.

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SpaceMarine33@reddit

They forced all the older generations out or the left because they weren’t being listened too. Boeing need to pull its head out of there ass.

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Dogfaceman_10@reddit

I retired from Boeing/McDonnell Douglas in 2014 after 32 yrs of service and throughout that period I faced 7-8 layoff periods, luckily I made it through all of them, but some where not so fortunate. The company will make it through this period just like it always has . . .

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