Who is claiming that the Supra is dying? They still sell, which is why you can't find a new one anywhere. My local dealer has sold at least 4 over the last couple of months. They usually only stay on the lot for 3 or 4 months max.
The Z4 might get discontinued, but that doesn't stop Toyota from making a new Supra, which it's getting about that time anyway.
If they were equipped to make a Supra on their own, they would’ve done that from the outset. They farmed out the Supra to BMW because they couldn’t be bothered to develop their own sporty chassis and straight six for it.
It wouldn't make sense to drop the Supra with people still paying over $60k for A80s and A90s. It is the golden standard for the price range with everything getting compared to it.
Seems less risky than the rumors that they'll revive the Celica or MR2.
I really like the top comment suggesting that Supras might not be selling as well as the new Z since there's a lot more of them available around him :/
And Toyota supposedly "putting a cap on production", where in reality Magna is going through a lot of issues and production is slowing down on their end.
Every single GR Supra that lands anywhere is immediately sold.
I bought a 2024 Supra manual new this year. I’m sure the sales are down. The car has been out for years with mixed reviews and only mild refreshes/updates. If it survives past 2025 I’ll be surprised. Most certainly don’t see if getting another gen. The 86 I see several every day. That car will live on.
Also if there’s rumors that they’ll stop making it, people aren’t going to buy it. People like to buy sports cars that have a legacy but also a future… not one-offs
They need to make a GT3 version for motorsports. I understand Lexus RC-F is the GT3 counterpart from the Toyota Gazoo Racing umbrella but it could work out great for marketing purposes
The Z had a pretty solid buying pool if it kept the 370z pricing model. At least in my opinion.
Adjusted for inflation from the 2020 370z, the new Z should run $37,200 for the base model and $42,200 for the performance model with the LSD.
Even if you add in a couple thousand for new model price adjustments, the new Z way out paces that pricing model. A base starts at $43,000, while the performance is $53,000.
I would imagine they would be selling quite a lot more of them at that original pricing model.
Far as mods, the Nissan responds far better to simple bolt ons and tunes. When we were shopping for a car for the wife it came to the z and the Supra. Besides her slightly preferring the z looks the big selling point was tuning
That's just wishful thinking for the pricing, because even though we joke about how's it's on the same 20 yr old platform, there were enough changes (not just engine) to where it's a better car than the 370z in almost every way (give or take things like NA vs turbo reliability, noise, space, etc).
This current Z should've came out in like 2016. I worked at Nissan dealership in 2013-15 and even back then the 370z was old news and rotting on lots with heavy discounts. Nissan has been like 7-8 years behind everyone else and now they are trying to play the inflated price game on a car nobody wants lol
the new Z is getting its lunch eaten by cars it simply can't compete with at its new price point. Nissan trying to sell the nismo at the same price as the M2 is insane.
If the performance was even $45,000 I would probably have one. That's a screaming deal for what you get. Especially since ~$1200 worth of tires fixes a lot of the issues that reviewers noted during the launch.
Yeah. I would pick the Supra over the Z every time if I had the option (but I would frankly just order a Z4 or M2 instead of dealing with Toyota as well)
The supra is so light. It's like 3200 pounds vs 3700 pounds for the m2 iirc. From what I've seen from Japan time attack the supra is a better platform too. It's always going to be my pick. But I'm obsessed with weight, even more so then the average /r/cars user who complains about a 6000 pound suv or wtv the stereotype is now haha. I got my fd down to 2600 pounds (kerb weight) and honestly I'm devastated that I won't be able to get it down to 2500 this year.
If you are so obsessed with weight why don't you have a Miata? You can get those to sub 2000lbs depending on the model year. You don't seem to be that obsessed with weight to be honest.
I haven't done anything exotic or expensive for weight savings haha. I should clarify, that 2600 lbs is my estimate for now, I won't be able to get it on scales till either November or March. I am just finishing a 2 year rebuild on my FD now. I'll list some number for you, but keep in mind this all from memory so i may be off on some parts.
Weight reduction:
aftermarket steal catback and steal racing beat midpipe, good for about 70lbs iirc.
Spare tire removal; 30 lbs
Rear seat, trunk separator, rear carpet; 20 lbs.
Air pump delete and pulleys; 15 lbs
Lighter battery; 20 lbs. Oem battery is 40 lbs, the battery I got is 20 lbs, so 20 lbs net savings.
Antenna delete; 2 lbs
Flywheel; 15 lbs
New intercooler (petite cool charge iii) and intake will add ~10 lbs.
Also has an aftermarket clutch but I don't know the weight difference vs OEM.
In the future i am planning to recarpet the rear of the car.
I also started with one of the lightest weight JDM models and have avoided adding any weight.
Model differences
No sunroof; 30lbs difference.
Factory 16-inch wheels; 20 - 40 lbs difference vs many aftermarket 17 and 18-inch setups.
No aftermarket or OEM sub; saves 30 lbs.
No catalytic converter in downpipe for JDM cars; saves 20-30 pounds iirc.
No driver airbags from the factory; 10 - 15 pounds.
I did corner weight the car before I started ripping it apart and it weighed in at 2650 lbs, but I don't remember exactly how much gas was in the car, I think it was a half tank. Since then I've taken out another ~110 lbs. So assuming a half tank of gas weighs ~60 lbs I'm hoping the car will weigh 2600 with a full tank of gas.
I have avoided deleting air conditioning and power steering. Air conditioning because the idea of driving the car on track without it sounds miserable. Power steering because if I want to autocross the car i think it'll be faster with power steering than without it. Also because i can't find a proper power steering delete steering rack for a RHD car. Next on my list is going to be seats, aftermarket seats will save 40 pounds total vs OEM seats. I am also debating if i want to fully strip out my trunk or keep the rear plastics in. I think the rear plastics net to 15 lbs total, but i also like how they look.
If i was to get into exotic materials i would do a rear CF hatch and rear lexan, that would save 20-30 lbs. Carbon fibre roof saves sub 10 lbs, so not worth it IMO. Carbon fibre doors with carbon fiber door cards would save 20 lbs per a side I think, so 40 lbs total. Dash delete saves 30 pounds, but i like the dash so i don't want to do that.
If i had a sunroof i would consider doing a sunroof delete with a carbon fibre sunroof plug, that would save about 20 - 25 lbs. Gets 80% of the benefits of a carbon fibre roof for 5% the price. Carbon fibre roofs are like 6000 USD to actually do properly afaik.
I feel when people look at weight savings they think they need big single items, when really it comes down to taking out 20 lbs 5 times to save 100 lbs. That is my take at least. Though the biggest single easy item is definitely a full exhaust.
Idk who down voted you but you definitely need a Miata in your life. Nothing modern comes even close to the weight of those. Especially when you start gutting. I'm sure it possible to get below 2000lbs
I haven't driven the Supra which I hear is underrated for HP, but the M2 is absurdly fast and definitely underrated. It's at least as powerful as my C8.
Umm it's 100% more powerful than a C8 lol. It pushing about 10-20hp more than a C8. M2 dyno like 470whp which is more than a C8 does on a comparable dyno. Obviously slower than a C8 still because of more drag and weight.
From the dyno sheets I've seen of bone stock Supras, it wouldn't be out of question to say they're making 440ish to the crank. I've seen dynos showing 405 to the wheels stock. It's crazy underrated.
Just FYI, the m2 has a significantly different engine than the Supra. A better comparison for a bmw coupe would be the G42 M240i, which has the exact same engine in it (the B58). The m2 has the S58, which is the same engine (though slightly detuned) as the m3 and m4.
The g42 is slightly heavier than the m2 though, but not by much. It's less than a hundred pounds more.
Original M2 was 3400 ish lbs. the 1M (M2 predecessor) was 3300. This is with actual usable rear seats and both are essentially highly modified mass market coupes. The Supra is heavy for what it is.
just checked and edited my original comment, 3343 vs 3745, both with 6 speed manuals. so a 400-pound difference, or about 1 small black bear in weight difference—honestly a huge amount. I know stock for stock the m2 is much faster on a track. But i think i would have more fun in a supra, especially modifying one.
The m240i is really nice compromise between a boring commuter car and a intense track car. It's a really good daily. I wouldn't want to track it heavily but it's also a lot more fun then a base bmw on a commute. I'm really happy with it.
Do you mean the f22 generation m235i? Because that is a different generation than his m240i (and has a different engine as well). If you mean the new m235i, that is a completely different car based on a fwd mini cooper platform.
I love it. It does everything I need it to and more. I autocross mine, and it does quite well. For me, it's a perfect balance of sport and luxury. Just keep in mind that the older m235 and m240i do not have LSD, which is a bit of a shame. Can always add it in the aftermarket, though.
I watched Toyota dealers struggling to fix the FRS engines when they had that recall, why would anyone go through that again? Just get the BMW version, at least they know how to work on these things
Also way better looks. And at this point there is enough information on the b58 and a9x platform I would feel 100% comfortable owing it with no warranty
emphasis to "way better looks". IDK what BMW was thinking with the small and widely sepeated tail lights. And most ugly of all, that ugly headlight design.
Want to know the real slap in the face? The skytop roadster is limited run of 50 unites. That car is designed so much better from front to back. So when they do design something actually appealing, barely anyone can have it. Fing stupid. Bad business move.
I can’t understand how, for the life of me, a Toyota body and a BMW motor are the best combination they could think up. Like maybe reverse that and give us a highly reliable sport car?
Toyota really missed the opportunity to slap a turbo on the 2gr TBH. Add in a ZF8 and man that would have been a great combo for some of the Lexus IS and GS models.
Ironically yeah, lately the news out of recent Toyota cars isn't great. I bought my first German car, the A5, so far so good. Just making sure I stay on top of the maintenance schedule.
With European cars, besides manufacturer's faults, if you stay on top of maintenance, they are very reliable. The problem is everyone is used to beating up their Japanese cars which have a far greater room for error and then saying Euros are shit because they didn't change their oil once in 10,000 miles of driving.
So you’re hitting us with that Subaru people logic, when they claim changing the head gasket every 60k miles is 'staying on top of maintenance.' Sure, if staying on top of maintenance means constantly swapping out BMW's overpriced special fluids and preemptively replacing parts before they fail—costing thousands in parts and labor—then yeah, every car is 'reliable.' Even F1 cars are reliable, you just gotta do maintenance every 18 laps.
Plastic impellers aren't automatically bad, they're often made out of plastic on purpose so that if they fail they won't ruin your engine. Even Porsche does this.
Now if they're built shittily and fail as a result that is indeed a problem, but as a concept they're a good idea.
Opinions on unreliable BMW drivetrains come from the fact that they've had some serious pieces of shit in the last decades. The N63 is such an example, it was really bad when it launched but it's fine now. The N54 was also pretty problematic, its successors were far more reliable.
I mean during the 2004-2014 era their plastic components would lead to having to bring your car in to the mechanic constantly. In addition their turbos during that era were notoriously unreliable and it’s expected that you had to replace them eventually if you had one. Compared to their main competitor at the time (Mercedes) they were definitely unreliable by today’s standards. Nowadays they’ve learned their lesson it seems.
So now you think the script is permanently flipped? I'd wager 90% of humans would pick a modern Toyota over a modern BMW as an apocalypse car, and rightfully so for more than a few reasons
Oh yeah I agree with that. I’m just saying the older ones are pretty rock solid as well granted the owner(s) at least knew to check their fluids. I’m at 310k miles on my e46 and I just redid all of the stock cooling system and she still pulls hard(for a 2000) hoping to get at least another 10 years out of the car but I’ll have a spare motor/car if need be. I’ve got a b25 with a getrag sitting around waiting for a cheap 325 with a blown head gasket
Hahaha no, noooooo no. Oh lord I wish that were true. A BMW is reliable inside warranty and that's about it.
Source: worked in a euro repair shop, still friends with the owner. Common knowledge is you will spend 3-5k per year on repairs for an out of warentee BMW.
Maybe so, but the fact that pre 2010 (really pre 2014-2015 if i’m being honest) BMW had the audacity to not care about the reliability of their cars makes me not trust them.
Toyota dealers these days are pretty arrogant as well. Unless you desperately need to have one of their cars, I think better service and deals can be had if you just look elsewhere.
I think most go for the supra purely because it's the "cheapest" method of getting a b58, but I'd rather go for the M2 since it's a more practical car.
I hate the rear view of the supra.
Inreally wanted to love the new Z, but when it came out and saw it's specs I just couldn't. I even grew to like the look of the thing which I hated at first. And even when the prices have been coming down, and I could own one if I wanted to. I just don't want it. I'd rather find an older 280 or 300 in okay condition and spend the difference making into something I actually want.
Nissan doesn't give a damn about their GT-Rs or Zs anymore. I don't even like the new GT-R either. It's been in production for almost 20 damn years.
I'm over it. When I was younger I'd buy older cars and fix them up just to race them amd wreck them. As I got older I appreciated being able to buy new cars that were nice from the get go, but now a lot of the manufacturer's I liked have been putting fuck all effort into their products and jacking up the prices just because they can.
So, now I'm back to buying older cars and fixing them up into cars that are truly nice cars and take care of them.
Hey, those dealerships are offering Zs at a very competitive rate of 80,000 dollars. And don't forget the Nissan service department you'll be stuck with for entirety of your warranty.
Maybe they should make them in more of the interesting colors. Sorry but I will never be interested in gray, black, or white for that car. Its body design requires bolder colors to look good.
Oh and it's at least $5k, if not $10k, overpriced for what it is. Especially with interest rates where they are right now.
There are more 2 door sports cars that cost more than $100k than cost less than $100k currently.
The working class doesn't have sports car levels of disposable income these days. And those who can spend more and want a status symbol are going to get a big truck because that can be their only vehicle.
I live in a pretty populous area, near Seattle. There are 3 major Toyota dealers around me. I just checked, between all 3 there is 1 supra, 1 GR corolla and 2 86's.
Toyota is absolutely hamstringing production of their fun cars to create artificial scarcity and it is a huge turnoff for I'm assuming a lot of people. Why wait and play games trying to get a supra when you can go to basically any chevy dealer and order a c8 in your spec for a few thousand more?
Also for fun I looked, the single closest Ford dealer to my house has 11 mustangs. Shit I bet if I looked on the used lots, those Toyota dealers would have more mustangs than fun GR cars as well.
I feel like the C8 is more of a serious and focused track weapon that doesn't really prioritize analogue fun in the recipe. But its capabilities make it more fun, in my opinion, even if you can't fully extract its potential.
I feel like the C8 is more of a serious and focused track weapon that doesn't really prioritize analogue fun in the recipe. But its capabilities make it more fun, in my opinion, even if you can't fully extract its potential.
When I compare my MT Supra vs the C8, I like the Supra way more in driving feel and it's just a little better in practicality (C8 trunks get hot and the doors are very wide and sharp). But the C8 is still very good.
Hmm, I don't feel that way, at least when I use sport mode. What year did you have? I don't know how true this is, but apparently 2023+ had updates to the steering and suspension and some people in the MKV forums say it's very noticeable. The manual also has some differences with the auto, but I think it's just for traction control. The C8, in my experience, has way less steering feedback even in track mode.
It’s literally the embodiment of driving a videogame. It’s extremely capable, no doubt about it, but I don’t know why reviewers never mention just how detached it feels to drive it.
The Corvette team is the only one at GM that doesn’t have its head up its ass though. I just went to Chevy’s website and the first thing you see is “Discontinued Vehicles” 🤣
The Toyota dealer near me is charging ADM + putting you through all sorts of bullshit. No test drives, hard pull just for an inquiry, etc.
Meanwhile I can order the exact Z4 I want and pay MSRP, or I can pay less if I'm willing to wait until one hits the lot with specs close enough to what I want.
With that said, my local BMW dealer is also staffed by assholes. But I can drive 30min to fix that. All of the Toyota dealers around me are acting like they're hot shit because demand is high at the moment. Not sure they'll have returning customers once it cools.....
Yeah. It’s kind of silly how little they’ll produce of these cars when there’s literally a consistent number of people waiting on their deposit for a build.
I'm not sure about specific worldwide markets but some countries are mandating that a particular percentage of their car sales must be hybrid/EV. This may be one of the reasons production is limited so much (but maybe not the only factor)
Nah if there are none on lot it means they’re selling really fast. I follow supras pretty closely and usually a listing for one lasts less than three days unless the price is really absurd.
Someone in my office just received their MT Supra a couple weeks ago but they had a 6 month wait to get theirs. I can see only 3 new listings for the Supra and all are pre-selling an "in transit" vehicle from the same dealership. Around here the car just isn't sitting on lots for long.
That’s sounds so insane to me because it’s seemingly different here in Canada. I got to talking with a sales guy while getting my 86 serviced and he was saying every Supra is just sitting on the lot for months at a time. They’re not the hotcakes Tacomas are (can’t find a single new one). There’s 8 Supras within 750km of me and 7 of them are on the lot, only one is pre-sale
That’s sounds so insane to me because it’s seemingly different here in Canada
It's possible that Kijiji is not the right search tool for new cars and I'm missing some but I'm also in Canada and that's all I saw. Autotrader.ca does find 2 additional new in stock Supras in the province and doesn't list the 3 in transit ones but I can't tell how long those have been on the lot.
I think it’s very area dependant. Being from Ottawa I usually include Quebec in my autotrader searches and that’s where most of the ones I found are. None currently in Ottawa though, I do know they tend sit on lots around here. I know of two that sat at least 2 months before being bought in the area
I saw quite a few Supras in 2020 and 2021, I'm talking maybe 3 or 4 a week. Now, I'm lucky to see one once a month. No idea where they disappeared to. However, I still have only seen a single Z.
I rented a tuned 6 speed A90 this weekend and had an absolutely sublime experience driving it around Chicago. As someone who hasn’t driven many fast cars, the noises, simple & driver focused BMW UX, and playful nature made a serious impression. Knowing Toyota put their name behind this would make it a serious contender if i were in the market.
Same! My buddy and I rented an auto '21 Supra two weeks ago and that thing rips. We had a blast, and it makes all the JDM hot boi noises. The crackles on the downshifts.... just beautiful
Turo! This was my second time renting a sports car. I got a C8 Corvette a couple months before. Both times it was about $260ish total for a 24hr rental after fees and the minimum insurance protection. both hosts gave a generous amount of miles as well so you could get in plenty of driving.
Supra 30 years ago: Fun cheap easy to obtain sports car
Supra today: MSRP:From $56,250. Cannot find anywhere
Toyota: I dunno why it won't sell!!! Why?!
This is pretty much every single sports car that isn't the Camaro (rip) Challenge (rip) or the Mustang (hang in there!)
Even the VW ID Buzz. Why doesn't it sell? Because your not trying to sell to the same demographic and the old demographic is dying... They want the real thing not a battery operated updated new age version. And the new demographic that would buy it would be middle class households but they aren't buying $60k minivans.
Exactly the Supra was never cheap. The Celica was much cheaper but nowhere near as good as the Supra. The current Supra is actually cheaper than the MK4 based on inflation alone.
If you thought the Supra was cheap 30 years ago, you have no idea what you’re talking about. MSRP for the Supra turbo was $48,000 in 1994, which is equal to $102,000 in today’s money. Even the POS non turbo model from the 90s was like $28,000 MSRP which is $60,000 today. While the new Supra is kind of expensive, stop pretending it’s anywhere near as expensive as the 90s Supras.
As long as they don't make a SUVpra, I'll buy a new one five years after its first ownership
Anyhow, I do think Toyota is wise enough not to euthanise a recently revived (not to mention iconic) nameplate after just one generation. It's just a question of what platform will the next Supra be on
Idk why people joke about this like Toyota will do it, Toyota already has big names in the SUV market with the 4Runner, LandCruiser, FJ, even the crossover market with the RAV4 and Highlander. They aren’t Ford or Mitsubishi, they’re not gonna ruin a name like that.
I would love to have a manual version at some point. After having recently been in one, I loved the experience enough to pine after the damn thing myself lol.
Hell, I’d love to have an auto one too. The ZF 8HP51 transmissions is nothing to sleep on. If you’ve never driven a ZF 8HP transmission before, you should really do so.
(Coming from a guy who is swapping a ZF 8HP50Z into his Miata lol)
Yea same I just don’t know if it’s worth more than my M2 competition ya know? I bought the M2c because in 2021 I couldn’t buy a manual Supra. And now the Supra costs more than my M2 did
Yea it’s a good car. I think about replacing it a lot because I don’t drive it much. My Wrangler 392 is what I drive the most.
Before those I had a 2011 Subaru STI, Jeep Gladiator, 16 Mustang GT, AP1 S2000, first gen Titan, Toyota T100, Fiesta ST, 5th gen Prelude, R56 Mini Cooper S.
And have had a Ducati Monster 1100 evo for ages.
Pretty much have always had a fun car, a truck, and a motorcycle. Missing having a pickup, but a U-Haul trailer works for the 1-offs I need for home projects
I do only because my S2000 was kind of a mess. Had a f22 engine because the first one grenaded when it was turbod (previous owner), had a god awful stage 2 clutch, and had something off with the suspension that was just unsettling.
Now a clean S2000 would be a different story.
The one thing that is amazing about the M2c is that it can road trip; has a pretty decently large trunk, some back seats to put stuff, and can get 28-30 mpg highway (even with the tune!)
You'd choose an automatic over a manual if you knew you were tracking it? In a straight line an automatic would win but on a track besides a dual clutch paddle shifting automatic, I don't see how the manual would lose with both drivers being good.
Sean Hanley, Toyota Australia's Vice President for Marketing and Sales, said: "There is no plan to discontinue the Supra brand in this car company. I know that. BMW is not Toyota. The notion that Supra is stopping is purely speculative."
I interpret that as the current Supra is going to go away, then a new Supra will take its place, likely with some kind of turbo 2.0T inline 4 hybrid like the one on the Lexus IS mule that was shown off (supposedly making 400hp).
The hype definitely seems to be gone in my area. No one cares at all at the car shows I go to. My friends clean modded MkIII gets way more attention. It's gotten a 6 year run, I wouldn't blame them at all for killing it.
Seriously can you read? Hes sharing his own experience of not seeing any hype at all. Find me where he said "I don't see supras hyped near me therefore Toyota will stop producing them"
How long do you think new cars are supposed to be getting attention? Unless it's something hyper limited, people stop caring after a year or two because it becomes common.
Shit I see so many cyber trucks now I barely bat an eye anymore
Not sure why toyota chose to collaborate with BMW on this one. I get it, its been done before with other car companies (GM), but i wonder how the "supra crowd" feel about it vs the old one.
Rumor has it that the GR86 successor will be a Celica powered by the GR Corolla's 1.6L I3, I wouldn't be surprised if the Mk6 Supra is based on this in a return to the Celica-Supra dynamic of the Mk1 and Mk2, possibly powered by Toyota's 2.0L I4.
There's been a lot of rumors around the Supra though, and pretty much none of them turned out to be true (GRMN anyone?).
I don't think Toyota would bring together the GR86 and Supra nameplates onto one car. Having the "lesser" engine tends to be damaging to the cheaper car: see Mustang Ecoboost or V6 Challengers/Camaro (or 2.0 Supra).
The GR86 works because it's its own thing. The 86 is lighter and larger than the Supra with a focus on raw handling prowess. Versus the Ecoboost Mustang, which is basically a worse Mustang GT.
Plus, if Toyota develops a RWD chassis capable of enough power for another Supra, and that chassis is shared with the 86, they run the risk of making the 86 too heavy. This is exactly why the Z weighs 3600lbs and the 2 Series is even heavier. It's little car on a big car platform syndrome.
IMHO, the Supra is going away and will live on as their race car for a little while. The Supra doesn't sell enough units for Toyota to justify building one solo.
Uh, having the “lessers” engines tend to support the continued manufacturing of the better trims. The v8 Mustang will probably be dead without the ecoboost, which sold way more.
yeah, I think a hybrid Supra is far more likely than a fully electrified one, based on the way the winds are blowing and Toyota's comments on hybridization vs. electrification.
Modding it is so cheap for the type of power most people settle with. Downpipe and tune will beat FBO E85 Mustangs and Camaros, and stock Hellcats. Adding a Whipple to a Mustang/Camaro costs about the same as a hybrid turbo on the Supra and they’ll still make similar power.
lol tell me you don’t know what you are talking about without saying you don’t know what you are talking about….
The B58 engine is ridiculously good and is literally the modern version of the 2JZ.
People have 1000+ hp B58, the record is almost 1500whp lol. It’s not iron but it’s a closed deck block and extremely stout.
Overall-Courage6721@reddit
Well why would anyone buy a toyota with bmw parts, maintenance and fake aero lol
RiftHunter4@reddit
Who is claiming that the Supra is dying? They still sell, which is why you can't find a new one anywhere. My local dealer has sold at least 4 over the last couple of months. They usually only stay on the lot for 3 or 4 months max.
The Z4 might get discontinued, but that doesn't stop Toyota from making a new Supra, which it's getting about that time anyway.
Admiral_Pantsless@reddit
If BMW stops making the convertible Z4, why do you think they would continue building the coupe version for Toyota?
TookEverything@reddit
BMW doesn’t build the Supra. Magna Steyr builds it, and they could feasibly continue to do so.
intercede007@reddit
The Supra and Z4 uses the previous generation iDrive (7), along with a lot of last generation technology.
If BMW doesn't want to keep producing and supporting iDrive 7, there is nothing for Magna Steyr to build.
RiftHunter4@reddit
Toyota would just make a new Supra. They could even keep using the B58 in a partnership.
Admiral_Pantsless@reddit
If they were equipped to make a Supra on their own, they would’ve done that from the outset. They farmed out the Supra to BMW because they couldn’t be bothered to develop their own sporty chassis and straight six for it.
RiftHunter4@reddit
It wouldn't make sense to drop the Supra with people still paying over $60k for A80s and A90s. It is the golden standard for the price range with everything getting compared to it.
Seems less risky than the rumors that they'll revive the Celica or MR2.
Admiral_Pantsless@reddit
The rumored electric Boxster-based MR2 seems more likely to me than a next-gen Supra.
F1_Geek@reddit
This is the only correct take on here lol.
The A100 is on its way.
Kenneth441@reddit
I really like the top comment suggesting that Supras might not be selling as well as the new Z since there's a lot more of them available around him :/
F1_Geek@reddit
And Toyota supposedly "putting a cap on production", where in reality Magna is going through a lot of issues and production is slowing down on their end.
Every single GR Supra that lands anywhere is immediately sold.
FreeTheMarket@reddit
Because the economics of developing a new Supra may not work out with only the sales numbers of the Supra and no Z4
teeteetah@reddit
Lexus is developing a sports/GT coupe, maybe they can go back to the old days of Supra/SC and have a Toyota variant
RiftHunter4@reddit
Depends on how they design it. There's a lot of news and rumors from Toyota these days so they're definitely cooking something.
albertgt40@reddit
I bought a 2024 Supra manual new this year. I’m sure the sales are down. The car has been out for years with mixed reviews and only mild refreshes/updates. If it survives past 2025 I’ll be surprised. Most certainly don’t see if getting another gen. The 86 I see several every day. That car will live on.
Op3rat0rr@reddit
Also if there’s rumors that they’ll stop making it, people aren’t going to buy it. People like to buy sports cars that have a legacy but also a future… not one-offs
viraj_asher@reddit
They need to make a GT3 version for motorsports. I understand Lexus RC-F is the GT3 counterpart from the Toyota Gazoo Racing umbrella but it could work out great for marketing purposes
TheReaperSovereign@reddit
0 new supra listed online within 500 miles of me. Compared to 265 Nissan Zs (which people on this sub claim doesn't exist)
just_another_bumm@reddit
Now if they could just get people to buy them
CloudsTasteGeometric@reddit
I'll buy one the instant I can find one for 30K off the lot.
caterham09@reddit
The Z had a pretty solid buying pool if it kept the 370z pricing model. At least in my opinion.
Adjusted for inflation from the 2020 370z, the new Z should run $37,200 for the base model and $42,200 for the performance model with the LSD.
Even if you add in a couple thousand for new model price adjustments, the new Z way out paces that pricing model. A base starts at $43,000, while the performance is $53,000.
I would imagine they would be selling quite a lot more of them at that original pricing model.
Cman1200@reddit
Hi it’s me the buying pool. I’m now happily in a BRZ and not out an extra $20,000
xamdou@reddit
Hi it's me the same buying pool. Ditto.
I like the new Z, but not for 50k.
AwardImmediate720@reddit
It's worse than that - on the lot, no markup, it's about$55k. That's just too much. That's just way too much.
Jimbenas@reddit
It’s lightly used C8/M4/GT500 money. No wonder nobody is buying them.
caterham09@reddit
Or again, for new cars it's supra money which by all accounts is a superior vehicle
Jimbenas@reddit
100%. I have no idea why anyone would take a Z over a Supra unless they were just a huge Nissan fan.
ZeeGarage@reddit
Far as mods, the Nissan responds far better to simple bolt ons and tunes. When we were shopping for a car for the wife it came to the z and the Supra. Besides her slightly preferring the z looks the big selling point was tuning
elitemouse@reddit
Are you really arguing the god tier b58 doesn't respond well to tunes lmao
ZeeGarage@reddit
You’re mistaking simple bolt ons snd tunes with builds.
Lancer876@reddit
That's just wishful thinking for the pricing, because even though we joke about how's it's on the same 20 yr old platform, there were enough changes (not just engine) to where it's a better car than the 370z in almost every way (give or take things like NA vs turbo reliability, noise, space, etc).
Intel_Oil@reddit
Also unavailable outside of the US.
Bladex20@reddit
This current Z should've came out in like 2016. I worked at Nissan dealership in 2013-15 and even back then the 370z was old news and rotting on lots with heavy discounts. Nissan has been like 7-8 years behind everyone else and now they are trying to play the inflated price game on a car nobody wants lol
ZombiePope@reddit
the new Z is getting its lunch eaten by cars it simply can't compete with at its new price point. Nissan trying to sell the nismo at the same price as the M2 is insane.
mini4x@reddit
Cheapest one listed within 100 miles for me was $46,620.
AwardImmediate720@reddit
If the performance was even $45,000 I would probably have one. That's a screaming deal for what you get. Especially since ~$1200 worth of tires fixes a lot of the issues that reviewers noted during the launch.
InstructionSea9965@reddit
Or if they came with a manual.
xBlueAutumnx@reddit
Wait, there’s no manual option on the new Z?
ZaheerAlGhul@reddit
Yes there is. Sport and Performance trim both have a manual not the Nismo.
InstructionSea9965@reddit
Nope. Some Mercedes tranny they reworked. They made arguably one of the fastest cars ever in the GTR but can’t make a tranny for the Z?
ed_423@reddit
Lol z definitely comes with a manual. Only the Nismo is auto only.
cheesynooby@reddit
What are you talking about, the z comes with manual except for the nismo
70stang@reddit
There is a manual option, but only for the base model, not for the Nismo.
TheReaperSovereign@reddit
Yeah. I would pick the Supra over the Z every time if I had the option (but I would frankly just order a Z4 or M2 instead of dealing with Toyota as well)
BWFTW@reddit
The supra is so light. It's like 3200 pounds vs 3700 pounds for the m2 iirc. From what I've seen from Japan time attack the supra is a better platform too. It's always going to be my pick. But I'm obsessed with weight, even more so then the average /r/cars user who complains about a 6000 pound suv or wtv the stereotype is now haha. I got my fd down to 2600 pounds (kerb weight) and honestly I'm devastated that I won't be able to get it down to 2500 this year.
aaayyyuuussshhh@reddit
If you are so obsessed with weight why don't you have a Miata? You can get those to sub 2000lbs depending on the model year. You don't seem to be that obsessed with weight to be honest.
marbleduck@reddit
I mean the really obvious answer is that the Miata doesn’t put 400hp to the road.
dajohnnyboy@reddit
What did you do to get it to 2600 lbs? Do you have carbon doors, fenders, etc? I've thought about doing a carbon roof if my sunroof fails.
BWFTW@reddit
I haven't done anything exotic or expensive for weight savings haha. I should clarify, that 2600 lbs is my estimate for now, I won't be able to get it on scales till either November or March. I am just finishing a 2 year rebuild on my FD now. I'll list some number for you, but keep in mind this all from memory so i may be off on some parts.
Weight reduction:
I also started with one of the lightest weight JDM models and have avoided adding any weight.
Model differences
I did corner weight the car before I started ripping it apart and it weighed in at 2650 lbs, but I don't remember exactly how much gas was in the car, I think it was a half tank. Since then I've taken out another ~110 lbs. So assuming a half tank of gas weighs ~60 lbs I'm hoping the car will weigh 2600 with a full tank of gas.
I have avoided deleting air conditioning and power steering. Air conditioning because the idea of driving the car on track without it sounds miserable. Power steering because if I want to autocross the car i think it'll be faster with power steering than without it. Also because i can't find a proper power steering delete steering rack for a RHD car. Next on my list is going to be seats, aftermarket seats will save 40 pounds total vs OEM seats. I am also debating if i want to fully strip out my trunk or keep the rear plastics in. I think the rear plastics net to 15 lbs total, but i also like how they look.
If i was to get into exotic materials i would do a rear CF hatch and rear lexan, that would save 20-30 lbs. Carbon fibre roof saves sub 10 lbs, so not worth it IMO. Carbon fibre doors with carbon fiber door cards would save 20 lbs per a side I think, so 40 lbs total. Dash delete saves 30 pounds, but i like the dash so i don't want to do that.
If i had a sunroof i would consider doing a sunroof delete with a carbon fibre sunroof plug, that would save about 20 - 25 lbs. Gets 80% of the benefits of a carbon fibre roof for 5% the price. Carbon fibre roofs are like 6000 USD to actually do properly afaik.
I feel when people look at weight savings they think they need big single items, when really it comes down to taking out 20 lbs 5 times to save 100 lbs. That is my take at least. Though the biggest single easy item is definitely a full exhaust.
aaayyyuuussshhh@reddit
Idk who down voted you but you definitely need a Miata in your life. Nothing modern comes even close to the weight of those. Especially when you start gutting. I'm sure it possible to get below 2000lbs
MrBleah@reddit
I haven't driven the Supra which I hear is underrated for HP, but the M2 is absurdly fast and definitely underrated. It's at least as powerful as my C8.
aaayyyuuussshhh@reddit
Umm it's 100% more powerful than a C8 lol. It pushing about 10-20hp more than a C8. M2 dyno like 470whp which is more than a C8 does on a comparable dyno. Obviously slower than a C8 still because of more drag and weight.
diamondpredator@reddit
From the dyno sheets I've seen of bone stock Supras, it wouldn't be out of question to say they're making 440ish to the crank. I've seen dynos showing 405 to the wheels stock. It's crazy underrated.
Sangricarn@reddit
Just FYI, the m2 has a significantly different engine than the Supra. A better comparison for a bmw coupe would be the G42 M240i, which has the exact same engine in it (the B58). The m2 has the S58, which is the same engine (though slightly detuned) as the m3 and m4.
The g42 is slightly heavier than the m2 though, but not by much. It's less than a hundred pounds more.
Jimbenas@reddit
Original M2 was 3400 ish lbs. the 1M (M2 predecessor) was 3300. This is with actual usable rear seats and both are essentially highly modified mass market coupes. The Supra is heavy for what it is.
csmithku2013@reddit
Curious to see what you’d think of my car: 2400 lbs, 460hp, 400ftlb, 5 speed manual for $60k… some assembly required.
Ceolan@reddit
The Supra is about 3400 lbs. M2 is about 3800 lbs.
BWFTW@reddit
just checked and edited my original comment, 3343 vs 3745, both with 6 speed manuals. so a 400-pound difference, or about 1 small black bear in weight difference—honestly a huge amount. I know stock for stock the m2 is much faster on a track. But i think i would have more fun in a supra, especially modifying one.
TheReaperSovereign@reddit
The m240i is really nice compromise between a boring commuter car and a intense track car. It's a really good daily. I wouldn't want to track it heavily but it's also a lot more fun then a base bmw on a commute. I'm really happy with it.
Mjolnir12@reddit
Do you mean the f22 generation m235i? Because that is a different generation than his m240i (and has a different engine as well). If you mean the new m235i, that is a completely different car based on a fwd mini cooper platform.
Ceolan@reddit
I love it. It does everything I need it to and more. I autocross mine, and it does quite well. For me, it's a perfect balance of sport and luxury. Just keep in mind that the older m235 and m240i do not have LSD, which is a bit of a shame. Can always add it in the aftermarket, though.
stupidusername@reddit
I watched Toyota dealers struggling to fix the FRS engines when they had that recall, why would anyone go through that again? Just get the BMW version, at least they know how to work on these things
Intel_Oil@reddit
Fixed roof, less weight, more performance.
smward998@reddit
Also way better looks. And at this point there is enough information on the b58 and a9x platform I would feel 100% comfortable owing it with no warranty
redspikedog@reddit
emphasis to "way better looks". IDK what BMW was thinking with the small and widely sepeated tail lights. And most ugly of all, that ugly headlight design.
Want to know the real slap in the face? The skytop roadster is limited run of 50 unites. That car is designed so much better from front to back. So when they do design something actually appealing, barely anyone can have it. Fing stupid. Bad business move.
stupidusername@reddit
meanwhile my friend's FRS literally burned down after the toyota dealer performed the recall so i guess that's even.
haqglo11@reddit
I can’t understand how, for the life of me, a Toyota body and a BMW motor are the best combination they could think up. Like maybe reverse that and give us a highly reliable sport car?
Beachdaddybravo@reddit
What Toyota engine would they have used?
thisisjustascreename@reddit
The one Lotus puts in all their cars, maybe.
Beachdaddybravo@reddit
A 4 cylinder or a V6? Neither of which makes as much power as the BMW straight 6 turbo?
6786_007@reddit
Toyota really missed the opportunity to slap a turbo on the 2gr TBH. Add in a ZF8 and man that would have been a great combo for some of the Lexus IS and GS models.
Porshuh@reddit
2GRs are open deck. They're not suitable for turbocharging.
ZF8s are overrated.
mini4x@reddit
The V6 TT from the Tundra..
Future_Khai@reddit
You just memeing? Bmws are very reliable unless your info is from 2010 and older.
haqglo11@reddit
Suggesting Toyotas are more reliable than BMW, despite their progress since 2010, is anything but a meme.
Future_Khai@reddit
The BMW reliability is proving itself to be better than than Toyota. You’re still going off reputation rather than data.
6786_007@reddit
Ironically yeah, lately the news out of recent Toyota cars isn't great. I bought my first German car, the A5, so far so good. Just making sure I stay on top of the maintenance schedule.
Future_Khai@reddit
With European cars, besides manufacturer's faults, if you stay on top of maintenance, they are very reliable. The problem is everyone is used to beating up their Japanese cars which have a far greater room for error and then saying Euros are shit because they didn't change their oil once in 10,000 miles of driving.
renegade06@reddit
So you’re hitting us with that Subaru people logic, when they claim changing the head gasket every 60k miles is 'staying on top of maintenance.' Sure, if staying on top of maintenance means constantly swapping out BMW's overpriced special fluids and preemptively replacing parts before they fail—costing thousands in parts and labor—then yeah, every car is 'reliable.' Even F1 cars are reliable, you just gotta do maintenance every 18 laps.
Future_Khai@reddit
There is no Subaru logic. Don’t buy a Subaru for starters.
6786_007@reddit
I do hate people who neglect certain maintenance items as if they are all a scam. Oil and fluids wear out which means they need to be changed.
pants_full_of_pants@reddit
BMW motors have pretty much always been reliable, with a few glaring caveats like plastic water impellers (easily replaceable).
The DISA valve would fail but that's not a reliability concern.
Their interiors and electronics had gremlins up until 2010s at least (cheap plastics, that weird issue where the door handles turned into goop).
I'm not sure where the opinion about their drive trains being unreliable came from.
xIcarus227@reddit
Plastic impellers aren't automatically bad, they're often made out of plastic on purpose so that if they fail they won't ruin your engine. Even Porsche does this.
Now if they're built shittily and fail as a result that is indeed a problem, but as a concept they're a good idea.
Opinions on unreliable BMW drivetrains come from the fact that they've had some serious pieces of shit in the last decades. The N63 is such an example, it was really bad when it launched but it's fine now. The N54 was also pretty problematic, its successors were far more reliable.
6786_007@reddit
The B58 still suffers from plastic valve cover issues and the big one which is the leaking oil filter housing. Nothing that can't be fixed thought.
Future_Khai@reddit
I mean during the 2004-2014 era their plastic components would lead to having to bring your car in to the mechanic constantly. In addition their turbos during that era were notoriously unreliable and it’s expected that you had to replace them eventually if you had one. Compared to their main competitor at the time (Mercedes) they were definitely unreliable by today’s standards. Nowadays they’ve learned their lesson it seems.
Awesome_hospital@reddit
New Toyotas are garbage
Awesome_hospital@reddit
New Toyotas are garbage
TookEverything@reddit
Tell that to Tundra/Tacoma/4Runner owners.
I’d trust a BMW engine over the new Toyota engines.
its_an_armoire@reddit
We just talked about recency bias.
Come on. Despite recent troubles, Toyotas overall are far more reliable for virtually every decade of their existence, and it's still true now.
TookEverything@reddit
For their classic engines, yeah. The verdict’s still out on the new ones.
its_an_armoire@reddit
So now you think the script is permanently flipped? I'd wager 90% of humans would pick a modern Toyota over a modern BMW as an apocalypse car, and rightfully so for more than a few reasons
German_Drive@reddit
For some reason I'm getting a very strong sense of deja vu from this thread
Geofferz@reddit
Agreed. Just had a new clutch at 75k Urgh.
No_Finding3079@reddit
Now you’re baiting. Post m54 and pre B58 are stinky
Future_Khai@reddit
Basically all I'm saying is modern BMWs are very reliable, B58 began production in 2015.
No_Finding3079@reddit
Oh yeah I agree with that. I’m just saying the older ones are pretty rock solid as well granted the owner(s) at least knew to check their fluids. I’m at 310k miles on my e46 and I just redid all of the stock cooling system and she still pulls hard(for a 2000) hoping to get at least another 10 years out of the car but I’ll have a spare motor/car if need be. I’ve got a b25 with a getrag sitting around waiting for a cheap 325 with a blown head gasket
pullmytailplz@reddit
Nah, they aren't. They're BMW. It's not American so why bother?
Future_Khai@reddit
Now you're definitely memeing.
pullmytailplz@reddit
I am not. BMW is for Arabs.
6786_007@reddit
Excuse me, wtf?
cheeseshcripes@reddit
Hahaha no, noooooo no. Oh lord I wish that were true. A BMW is reliable inside warranty and that's about it.
Source: worked in a euro repair shop, still friends with the owner. Common knowledge is you will spend 3-5k per year on repairs for an out of warentee BMW.
Future_Khai@reddit
You guys working on a lot of 2018 and newer bmws?
cheeseshcripes@reddit
No, because they are still under warranty, right?
Future_Khai@reddit
No the 2018-2020's are out of warranty by now.
cheeseshcripes@reddit
It is just out of warentee or into an extended warentee/cpo period, he will not start seeing them for another 2-3 years.
The_Don_Papi@reddit
Nah, they just run their BMWs to the ground and wonder why it doesn’t work. It’s a tale I see often.
RadicalSnowdude@reddit
Maybe so, but the fact that pre 2010 (really pre 2014-2015 if i’m being honest) BMW had the audacity to not care about the reliability of their cars makes me not trust them.
bill_cipher1996@reddit
You mean as reliable as the GR Yaris which are catching fire ?
Cranberry_The_Cat@reddit
You can Google any car on fire.
JayBee58484@reddit
Brother this is probably one of the best all around motors out there right now and it's pretty widely accepted
narcistic_asshole@reddit
The B58 is pretty reliable and extremely proven engine.
_galaga_@reddit
Besmirching the B58… tsk tsk
CowWhy@reddit
My Supra was very reliable for the 3 1/2 years I had it. Only issue was needing to top up on oil every few thousand miles or so
Friar_Fuck_@reddit
If you’ve got the time can you explain why? Here I am just a huge Z fan.
PiggypPiggyyYaya@reddit
Toyota dealers these days are pretty arrogant as well. Unless you desperately need to have one of their cars, I think better service and deals can be had if you just look elsewhere.
Cranberry_The_Cat@reddit
I think most go for the supra purely because it's the "cheapest" method of getting a b58, but I'd rather go for the M2 since it's a more practical car. I hate the rear view of the supra.
justin_memer@reddit
A used 3 series with a B58 is under $30k though.
Cranberry_The_Cat@reddit
I was thinking brand new, should have specified on my part.
Also....don't tempt me.
justin_memer@reddit
Lol gotcha
Cranberry_The_Cat@reddit
Damn you weren't kidding. Okay, no more window shopping for me.
justin_memer@reddit
It's a damn good deal I think
TheTense@reddit
Supra name is sweet. But it’s still a BMW engine, so I’d probably just take the BMW badge. I also love convertibles. What I want is an S2000 again…
KronosX3TR@reddit
Yeah at least the Nissan is actually a Nissan. Not that that’s saying all that much.
AeBlueSadi@reddit
how many that do you need in one sentence
yes
KronosX3TR@reddit
I didn’t even realize lmao
LetgomyEkko@reddit
Mmmmmmm an M2 🤤
Itsumiamario@reddit
Inreally wanted to love the new Z, but when it came out and saw it's specs I just couldn't. I even grew to like the look of the thing which I hated at first. And even when the prices have been coming down, and I could own one if I wanted to. I just don't want it. I'd rather find an older 280 or 300 in okay condition and spend the difference making into something I actually want.
Nissan doesn't give a damn about their GT-Rs or Zs anymore. I don't even like the new GT-R either. It's been in production for almost 20 damn years.
I'm over it. When I was younger I'd buy older cars and fix them up just to race them amd wreck them. As I got older I appreciated being able to buy new cars that were nice from the get go, but now a lot of the manufacturer's I liked have been putting fuck all effort into their products and jacking up the prices just because they can.
So, now I'm back to buying older cars and fixing them up into cars that are truly nice cars and take care of them.
Dredgeon@reddit
Hey, those dealerships are offering Zs at a very competitive rate of 80,000 dollars. And don't forget the Nissan service department you'll be stuck with for entirety of your warranty.
AwardImmediate720@reddit
Maybe they should make them in more of the interesting colors. Sorry but I will never be interested in gray, black, or white for that car. Its body design requires bolder colors to look good.
Oh and it's at least $5k, if not $10k, overpriced for what it is. Especially with interest rates where they are right now.
xXxDickBonerz69xXx@reddit
There are more 2 door sports cars that cost more than $100k than cost less than $100k currently.
The working class doesn't have sports car levels of disposable income these days. And those who can spend more and want a status symbol are going to get a big truck because that can be their only vehicle.
caterham09@reddit
I live in a pretty populous area, near Seattle. There are 3 major Toyota dealers around me. I just checked, between all 3 there is 1 supra, 1 GR corolla and 2 86's.
Toyota is absolutely hamstringing production of their fun cars to create artificial scarcity and it is a huge turnoff for I'm assuming a lot of people. Why wait and play games trying to get a supra when you can go to basically any chevy dealer and order a c8 in your spec for a few thousand more?
Also for fun I looked, the single closest Ford dealer to my house has 11 mustangs. Shit I bet if I looked on the used lots, those Toyota dealers would have more mustangs than fun GR cars as well.
xamdou@reddit
The C8 is such a bargain compared to every other option out there right now.
It also helps that they just keep printing them out, so they're readily accessible.
Kaiathebluenose@reddit
totally agree. The supra doesnt make much sense to buy when the C8 exists.
TookEverything@reddit
Having driven both, I found the Supra to be a lot more fun. C8 is way more isolated and clinical.
nieleox@reddit
I feel like the C8 is more of a serious and focused track weapon that doesn't really prioritize analogue fun in the recipe. But its capabilities make it more fun, in my opinion, even if you can't fully extract its potential.
ni0re@reddit
I feel like the C8 is more of a serious and focused track weapon that doesn't really prioritize analogue fun in the recipe. But its capabilities make it more fun, in my opinion, even if you can't fully extract its potential.
Kaiathebluenose@reddit
I owned a Supra and it was ok. I have not driven a C8. I’d like to drive a manual Supra
fatedsorrow@reddit
When I compare my MT Supra vs the C8, I like the Supra way more in driving feel and it's just a little better in practicality (C8 trunks get hot and the doors are very wide and sharp). But the C8 is still very good.
Kaiathebluenose@reddit
I hated the steering on the Supra. I think it’s garbage
fatedsorrow@reddit
Hmm, I don't feel that way, at least when I use sport mode. What year did you have? I don't know how true this is, but apparently 2023+ had updates to the steering and suspension and some people in the MKV forums say it's very noticeable. The manual also has some differences with the auto, but I think it's just for traction control. The C8, in my experience, has way less steering feedback even in track mode.
uberdosage@reddit
The supra steeting felt like every other BMW: sometimes unnatural isolated video game. Sport mode feel felt like it just made the steering stiffer
I haven't driven the C8, but I haven't heard anything better.
TookEverything@reddit
C8’s steering isn’t much better, if at all.
It’s literally the embodiment of driving a videogame. It’s extremely capable, no doubt about it, but I don’t know why reviewers never mention just how detached it feels to drive it.
Kaiathebluenose@reddit
That’s disappointing. That’s what I hated about the new M2. Felt like a video game
thisisjustascreename@reddit
The Corvette team is the only one at GM that doesn’t have its head up its ass though. I just went to Chevy’s website and the first thing you see is “Discontinued Vehicles” 🤣
TheAlphaCarb0n@reddit
I'm no Chevy fanboy but uhh their sales volume this year says otherwise.
Larcya@reddit
I mean why bother putting up with Toyotas bullshit for a supra when you can walk in to any BMW and order a Supra with a BMW badge for zero hassels?
Toyotas antiquated not being able to actually order the car you want policy needs to be brought out behind the barn and old yellered.
stav_and_nick@reddit
Only issue with the BMW Supra is that it's convertible only. I want the coupe! But then, that just comfortably redirects you to the 2 or 4 series
Mjolnir12@reddit
Not if you want a manual; the Z4 is currently the only way to get a B58 manual bmw.
DaggumTarHeels@reddit
You can get the Supra w/manual.
Positive-Homework929@reddit
If only this was a thread about getting an actual BMW instead of a Supra
lhturbo@reddit
And the M2 is 400lbs heavier. No thx
DepthHour1669@reddit
Better power to weight ratio though
uaexemarat@reddit
About a $25,000 difference in price in the UAE
TookEverything@reddit
The BMW is like $15k more.
WrongdoerNo4924@reddit
Assuming the Toyota dealer doesn't hit you with a "market adjustment" on their price.
DaggumTarHeels@reddit
The Toyota dealer near me is charging ADM + putting you through all sorts of bullshit. No test drives, hard pull just for an inquiry, etc.
Meanwhile I can order the exact Z4 I want and pay MSRP, or I can pay less if I'm willing to wait until one hits the lot with specs close enough to what I want.
With that said, my local BMW dealer is also staffed by assholes. But I can drive 30min to fix that. All of the Toyota dealers around me are acting like they're hot shit because demand is high at the moment. Not sure they'll have returning customers once it cools.....
uberdosage@reddit
After my gr86 purchasing experience and still seeing markups everywhere even for base Corolla hybrid LE with hubcaps...
HELL NO
lhturbo@reddit
Paid $500 under MSRP for my MT Supra :/
Beefstah@reddit
You can indeed order the car you want in other countries - I know this because I've done it twice in the last few years.
kimbabs@reddit
Yeah. It’s kind of silly how little they’ll produce of these cars when there’s literally a consistent number of people waiting on their deposit for a build.
InstructionSea9965@reddit
Same with their Siennas. They have a fk ton of Tundras though
6786_007@reddit
The sienna is getting 36 MPG on Toyota's tried and true Hybrid system. If you're in the market for a van, it's gonna be hard to beat those numbers.
max_power1000@reddit
Don't the new tundras have a problematic engine though? I thought there was a reason they are sitting.
stupidusername@reddit
I love Tundras.
But thinking back on it, I love older Tundras.
cheezturds@reddit
Just as annoying, you can’t build a Toyota to spec the way you want and order it. Gotta take what they put out. It’s incredibly obnoxious
tofulo@reddit
Seattle area Toyota dealers are horrific too
Francoberry@reddit
I'm not sure about specific worldwide markets but some countries are mandating that a particular percentage of their car sales must be hybrid/EV. This may be one of the reasons production is limited so much (but maybe not the only factor)
Koil_ting@reddit
But Toyota has the most popular hybrid car correct?
EICONTRACT@reddit
You sure you mistakenly didn’t not put GR supra
instantur@reddit
Doesn’t that just prove nobody is buying them?
EICONTRACT@reddit
Maybe no one wants to sell? Also for me you have to choose GR supra not Supra
SwissMargiela@reddit
Nah if there are none on lot it means they’re selling really fast. I follow supras pretty closely and usually a listing for one lasts less than three days unless the price is really absurd.
instantur@reddit
I’m referring to the Nissan Z.
Ath47@reddit
Yeah, kind of a weird comment there. "This sub says they never see any Nissan Zs on the road, but I just found hundreds sitting on dealer lots!"
MaraudingWalrus@reddit
"nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded"
Alarmedones@reddit
So all new Supras are selling and no new Zs are selling? That’s how I read it.
2ingredientexplosion@reddit
I'm picking the Z over the supra. Stock ecu tunes have been getting 500hp regularly.
kimbabs@reddit
Ah yes, Toyota and not ever making enough of the cars people actually want.
WeBornToHula@reddit
Difference: people are buying the Supras people aren't buying the Z
Ecks83@reddit
Someone in my office just received their MT Supra a couple weeks ago but they had a 6 month wait to get theirs. I can see only 3 new listings for the Supra and all are pre-selling an "in transit" vehicle from the same dealership. Around here the car just isn't sitting on lots for long.
inoua5dollarservices@reddit
That’s sounds so insane to me because it’s seemingly different here in Canada. I got to talking with a sales guy while getting my 86 serviced and he was saying every Supra is just sitting on the lot for months at a time. They’re not the hotcakes Tacomas are (can’t find a single new one). There’s 8 Supras within 750km of me and 7 of them are on the lot, only one is pre-sale
Ecks83@reddit
It's possible that Kijiji is not the right search tool for new cars and I'm missing some but I'm also in Canada and that's all I saw. Autotrader.ca does find 2 additional new in stock Supras in the province and doesn't list the 3 in transit ones but I can't tell how long those have been on the lot.
inoua5dollarservices@reddit
I think it’s very area dependant. Being from Ottawa I usually include Quebec in my autotrader searches and that’s where most of the ones I found are. None currently in Ottawa though, I do know they tend sit on lots around here. I know of two that sat at least 2 months before being bought in the area
lhturbo@reddit
Waited 18 months for my MT but it was worth it. And was $500 under MSRP. Love the car
Vazhox@reddit
People are buying up the supras and keeping the junk on the lot
max_power1000@reddit
Thanks for making me look - there's a Performance manual listed under MSRP 15 minutes from me... Tempting.
superchibisan2@reddit
I still haven't seen one on the road
Bikouchu@reddit
This sub isn’t exactly wrong. I’ve seen probably 50 supras and only 2 Z driven by. I live in socal for reference.
mini4x@reddit
This is not the brag you think it is. People want the Supra, not so much the Z.
Teledildonic@reddit
I live in a very large city and was shocked to see my second one ever in the wild last week.
350s and 370 sold just fine and i still see plenty, Nissan dropped the ball fucking hard with the new one.
derelickmyvols@reddit
All the new Supras seem to be sent to Hawaii.
DM725@reddit
Automatic ones have been sitting a long time near me.
abattlescar@reddit
I saw quite a few Supras in 2020 and 2021, I'm talking maybe 3 or 4 a week. Now, I'm lucky to see one once a month. No idea where they disappeared to. However, I still have only seen a single Z.
Kaiathebluenose@reddit
There’s 16 within 500 of me and a bunch of manuals
drakitomon@reddit
They exist, they are just overpriced as is, and most dealers have stupid markups on them like its the second coming of christ for sale.
Granddy01@reddit
Does that mean people keep buying the Supras and not the 50k markup Zs?
Unique_Bumblebee_894@reddit
Ok, thanks for showing your hand.
SkylineRSR@reddit
You’re telling me you don’t want a Toyota Crown Supra crossover with ventilated seating???
D4rkr4in@reddit
Isn’t Supra just another Japanese word for crown like every other Toyota model
Ecks83@reddit
According to wiki:
crozone@reddit
I mean they already don't even build it
nipnaps@reddit
I rented a tuned 6 speed A90 this weekend and had an absolutely sublime experience driving it around Chicago. As someone who hasn’t driven many fast cars, the noises, simple & driver focused BMW UX, and playful nature made a serious impression. Knowing Toyota put their name behind this would make it a serious contender if i were in the market.
smackbymyJohnHolmes@reddit
Same! My buddy and I rented an auto '21 Supra two weeks ago and that thing rips. We had a blast, and it makes all the JDM hot boi noises. The crackles on the downshifts.... just beautiful
zazu1337@reddit
Where did you find one to rent? I’m interested in trying one out especially before committing to a big purchase.
smackbymyJohnHolmes@reddit
Turo! This was my second time renting a sports car. I got a C8 Corvette a couple months before. Both times it was about $260ish total for a 24hr rental after fees and the minimum insurance protection. both hosts gave a generous amount of miles as well so you could get in plenty of driving.
nipnaps@reddit
Mine was way more than this but still worth it!
smackbymyJohnHolmes@reddit
100%. I'll definitely be doing it again soon!
Hrmerder@reddit
Supra 30 years ago: Fun cheap easy to obtain sports car
Supra today: MSRP:From $56,250. Cannot find anywhere
Toyota: I dunno why it won't sell!!! Why?!
This is pretty much every single sports car that isn't the Camaro (rip) Challenge (rip) or the Mustang (hang in there!)
Even the VW ID Buzz. Why doesn't it sell? Because your not trying to sell to the same demographic and the old demographic is dying... They want the real thing not a battery operated updated new age version. And the new demographic that would buy it would be middle class households but they aren't buying $60k minivans.
TookEverything@reddit
The Supra was NOT cheap. It was more expensive than today’s Supra.
Fonzdj@reddit
Exactly the Supra was never cheap. The Celica was much cheaper but nowhere near as good as the Supra. The current Supra is actually cheaper than the MK4 based on inflation alone.
Ibyyriff@reddit
If you thought the Supra was cheap 30 years ago, you have no idea what you’re talking about. MSRP for the Supra turbo was $48,000 in 1994, which is equal to $102,000 in today’s money. Even the POS non turbo model from the 90s was like $28,000 MSRP which is $60,000 today. While the new Supra is kind of expensive, stop pretending it’s anywhere near as expensive as the 90s Supras.
SuperSmashedBro@reddit
Adjusted for inflation, the Supra Turbo would cost $105,037.07 today. Hell, even not adjusting for inflation, it cost $48,704.
challengerrt@reddit
The Supra died in 1998
Hunter-Mood991@reddit
The New Supra is just BMW Z4 nothing Supra about it, also overpriced
F1_Geek@reddit
Overpriced? It's the best bang for your buck value and is a massive overachiever.
Hunter-Mood991@reddit
No it’s not. It’s. BMW. Nissan 370z 100 times better
TookEverything@reddit
You smoking that good stuff.
Hunter-Mood991@reddit
Never have. The new Supra is a BMW , simple as is. Z4 . Not worth it.
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TookEverything@reddit
It literally beats everything in its price range, how is it overpriced?
Deep-Ad2155@reddit
Z car is a dud too
Smart-As-Duck@reddit
It’s a great car. The best part is that it is a BMW.
Hope that it sticks around and I’d buy another despite the atrocious Toyota dealership experiences
iwantac8@reddit
I personally could never get over the fact that it's a BMW, LC500 is more of a supra successor in my eyes.
Dud3_Abid3s@reddit
In my opinion…it’s a very ugly car.
Bottlely@reddit
As long as they don't make a SUVpra, I'll buy a new one five years after its first ownership
Anyhow, I do think Toyota is wise enough not to euthanise a recently revived (not to mention iconic) nameplate after just one generation. It's just a question of what platform will the next Supra be on
ty-fi_@reddit
man I would be supra depressed if it turned into an SUV
TinuThomasTrain@reddit
Idk why people joke about this like Toyota will do it, Toyota already has big names in the SUV market with the 4Runner, LandCruiser, FJ, even the crossover market with the RAV4 and Highlander. They aren’t Ford or Mitsubishi, they’re not gonna ruin a name like that.
Alexis_style@reddit
The only thing they did a crossover was the corolla, but other than that I don't think toyota has a reason to pull a Mustang Mach E
TinuThomasTrain@reddit
I mean it makes sense, it still looks like a Corolla. Also the Toyota Corolla Matrix exists, which is like a Corolla cross almost.
Silent_nutsack@reddit
Looks at ford…
bonerJR@reddit
ELECTRIFIED CUV COMING RIGHT UP
hartzonfire@reddit
It would be so cool if they ditched BMW and made it “their” car but I’m well aware this car wouldn’t be here without BMWs assistance.
eyi526@reddit
Eh I've been preferring sedans lately, so I've been leaning more towards the M340...but I do not like this latest interior design.
x8086-M2@reddit
It’s not dead but still not available to buy. When the like car is available the dealers want to make it as expensive as a m2.
Fix your supply Toyota !!
DanielG165@reddit
I would love to have a manual version at some point. After having recently been in one, I loved the experience enough to pine after the damn thing myself lol.
Watterson02@reddit
Hell, I’d love to have an auto one too. The ZF 8HP51 transmissions is nothing to sleep on. If you’ve never driven a ZF 8HP transmission before, you should really do so.
(Coming from a guy who is swapping a ZF 8HP50Z into his Miata lol)
krombopulousnathan@reddit
Yea same I just don’t know if it’s worth more than my M2 competition ya know? I bought the M2c because in 2021 I couldn’t buy a manual Supra. And now the Supra costs more than my M2 did
MidnightRunWalsh@reddit
Happy with the M2C? What else have you had?
krombopulousnathan@reddit
Yea it’s a good car. I think about replacing it a lot because I don’t drive it much. My Wrangler 392 is what I drive the most.
Before those I had a 2011 Subaru STI, Jeep Gladiator, 16 Mustang GT, AP1 S2000, first gen Titan, Toyota T100, Fiesta ST, 5th gen Prelude, R56 Mini Cooper S.
And have had a Ducati Monster 1100 evo for ages.
Pretty much have always had a fun car, a truck, and a motorcycle. Missing having a pickup, but a U-Haul trailer works for the 1-offs I need for home projects
MidnightRunWalsh@reddit
I had an AP1, miss it. Do you prefer the M2C? If so, why/why not
krombopulousnathan@reddit
I do only because my S2000 was kind of a mess. Had a f22 engine because the first one grenaded when it was turbod (previous owner), had a god awful stage 2 clutch, and had something off with the suspension that was just unsettling.
Now a clean S2000 would be a different story.
The one thing that is amazing about the M2c is that it can road trip; has a pretty decently large trunk, some back seats to put stuff, and can get 28-30 mpg highway (even with the tune!)
MidnightRunWalsh@reddit
Definitely easier to daily! I test drove one but kind of missed the raw side of the AP1.
krombopulousnathan@reddit
Supra drives more like the M2 than an S2000 for sure. Would be very easy to live with
FeelTall@reddit
Pretty sure they started offering a manual Supra in 2023
DanielG165@reddit
I’m saying like, I would love to buy one. I know they’re out there lol
FeelTall@reddit
Oh....I'm the dumbass lol
lhturbo@reddit
They will be rare but yes, since ‘23 about 45% annually are manuals. That’s around a total of ~2500 made so far for the MKV.
redstern@reddit
Toyota: Hey guys, we brought back a highly desirable fun car. Please buy it.
People: OK, can I buy one?
Toyota: No.
Also Toyota: Why isn't our car selling?
Astramael@reddit
You can buy them…
trackdaybruh@reddit
Was it a manual by any chance? They sell at MSRP due to less demand for it
However, the ZF8 auto is marked up
epsiblivion@reddit
I am seeing the opposite? Manual supras are priced higher than auto
Future_Khai@reddit
Anyone buying an auto sports car when a manual version exists deserves the markup.
trackdaybruh@reddit
I’d get the manual if I didn’t care about the lap times
Future_Khai@reddit
You'd choose an automatic over a manual if you knew you were tracking it? In a straight line an automatic would win but on a track besides a dual clutch paddle shifting automatic, I don't see how the manual would lose with both drivers being good.
Astramael@reddit
Until this coming year the GR Corolla was only available as a manual.
trackdaybruh@reddit
Oo thought you were talking about the Supra
Vhozite@reddit
Relevant section
The “Supra brand” is weird way to phrase that
Joker328@reddit
Exactly. Chevy isn't killing the "Camaro brand" either, but whatever comes next sure as hell won't be a V8 muscle car.
BeamMeUpReddit@reddit
Maybe a rebranded Corolla like how Chevy did with the Nova.
Dan_E26@reddit
"Supra-inspired" compact crossover with 1.5 turbo and CVT coming soon ;)
_galaga_@reddit
Supra Mach E inbound
BeamMeUpReddit@reddit
I hope not
VanillaLifestyle@reddit
Supra Mach E
AwardImmediate720@reddit
Fortunately Toyota is not Mitsubishi. Plus as long as Akio in in charge I don't se him ever allowing such a travesty to happen.
Yes I am still salty about the Eclipse.
Wiggles114@reddit
🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
Vhozite@reddit
SupRav 4 TRD that’s a reskinned X3M
dragonitexy@reddit
Back in the day an auto journalist had actually suggested the A90 be a sporty CUV like the X4
dragonitexy@reddit
Back in the day an auto journalist had actually suggested the A90 be a sporty CUV like the X4
UndeadWaffle12@reddit
You joke but that might actually be incredible
InstructionSea9965@reddit
Eww
ThatWackyMalazan@reddit
Can't wait for the Suprius, Supraquoia and Suprienna.
Ecks83@reddit
Doesn't seem too weird when you note that the quote came from the VP of marketing where everything is a "brand".
Big-Smoke99@reddit
Exactly, people don't understand that this is simply how OEMs refer to their established nameplates.
k0fi96@reddit
That's just corpo speak. You gotta speak broad or else someone on Reddit will call you full of shit.
Gorgenapper@reddit
I interpret that as the current Supra is going to go away, then a new Supra will take its place, likely with some kind of turbo 2.0T inline 4 hybrid like the one on the Lexus IS mule that was shown off (supposedly making 400hp).
THEREALCABEZAGRANDE@reddit
The hype definitely seems to be gone in my area. No one cares at all at the car shows I go to. My friends clean modded MkIII gets way more attention. It's gotten a 6 year run, I wouldn't blame them at all for killing it.
Dazzling-Rooster2103@reddit
Because car companies make cars based on how they are perceived at car shows.
JarifSA@reddit
That's not at all what he said
gropingpriest@reddit
lol? that's exactly what he said and there wasn't much else to the post
JarifSA@reddit
Seriously can you read? Hes sharing his own experience of not seeing any hype at all. Find me where he said "I don't see supras hyped near me therefore Toyota will stop producing them"
THEREALCABEZAGRANDE@reddit
It's a good indicator of interest for a performance product.
caterham09@reddit
How long do you think new cars are supposed to be getting attention? Unless it's something hyper limited, people stop caring after a year or two because it becomes common.
Shit I see so many cyber trucks now I barely bat an eye anymore
THEREALCABEZAGRANDE@reddit
That's what I'm saying. It wouldn't surprise me if they axed the Supra, it's had a fairly long and successful run for a sports car.
samoan_ninja@reddit
Not sure why toyota chose to collaborate with BMW on this one. I get it, its been done before with other car companies (GM), but i wonder how the "supra crowd" feel about it vs the old one.
jzr171@reddit
The BMW aspects of it ruined it for me. But I see them often now. I don't want the current model, but they seem popular.
Ibyyriff@reddit
Written by someone who probably hasn’t even driven a BMW before lol.
jzr171@reddit
I'd drive one, but I'd never buy one.
9009RPM@reddit
Supra Targa! Please!!!!!
SuperSmashedBro@reddit
Wind buffeting would make people go deaf
9009RPM@reddit
I know it's not gonna happen but maybe they would try to fix it if they do decide to release a targa version.
tulesto@reddit
I think the inline six supra is dying. My guess is they mean the word supra and there is an electric car on the horizon.
Aero06@reddit
Rumor has it that the GR86 successor will be a Celica powered by the GR Corolla's 1.6L I3, I wouldn't be surprised if the Mk6 Supra is based on this in a return to the Celica-Supra dynamic of the Mk1 and Mk2, possibly powered by Toyota's 2.0L I4.
TurboFucked@reddit
There's been a lot of rumors around the Supra though, and pretty much none of them turned out to be true (GRMN anyone?).
I don't think Toyota would bring together the GR86 and Supra nameplates onto one car. Having the "lesser" engine tends to be damaging to the cheaper car: see Mustang Ecoboost or V6 Challengers/Camaro (or 2.0 Supra).
The GR86 works because it's its own thing. The 86 is lighter and larger than the Supra with a focus on raw handling prowess. Versus the Ecoboost Mustang, which is basically a worse Mustang GT.
Plus, if Toyota develops a RWD chassis capable of enough power for another Supra, and that chassis is shared with the 86, they run the risk of making the 86 too heavy. This is exactly why the Z weighs 3600lbs and the 2 Series is even heavier. It's little car on a big car platform syndrome.
IMHO, the Supra is going away and will live on as their race car for a little while. The Supra doesn't sell enough units for Toyota to justify building one solo.
Future_Khai@reddit
86 larger than the Supra? In what way?
randeus@reddit
Uh, having the “lessers” engines tend to support the continued manufacturing of the better trims. The v8 Mustang will probably be dead without the ecoboost, which sold way more.
gropingpriest@reddit
yeah, I think a hybrid Supra is far more likely than a fully electrified one, based on the way the winds are blowing and Toyota's comments on hybridization vs. electrification.
DiffusedSky24@reddit
I've never seen one on the road. Years ago Supras were everywhere. So yes, it's dying.
AceGoat_@reddit
It just doesn’t have the appeal like the original Supra has. The new one is a BMW with a different shell.
19Ben80@reddit
It does when they stopped making the Mk4, Toyota haven’t made their own since
livinalieontimna@reddit
It’s €103k where I live. Sports cars are not dying they are dead in my country and it’s on purpose.
cngo_24@reddit
Supra are selling out near me, mainly because people were getting gapped by people who owned one.
I know a few V8 guys who legit traded in their mustangs/Camaros for one, the aftermarket support is huge on the supra.
TookEverything@reddit
Modding it is so cheap for the type of power most people settle with. Downpipe and tune will beat FBO E85 Mustangs and Camaros, and stock Hellcats. Adding a Whipple to a Mustang/Camaro costs about the same as a hybrid turbo on the Supra and they’ll still make similar power.
idksomuch@reddit
They'll also deny warranty if you go over 85
foggiermeadows@reddit
Well if they'd used a new version of the 2JZ instead of making a BMW with a Toyota badge that probably would have helped with sales.
ButthealedInTheFeels@reddit
lol tell me you don’t know what you are talking about without saying you don’t know what you are talking about….
The B58 engine is ridiculously good and is literally the modern version of the 2JZ.
People have 1000+ hp B58, the record is almost 1500whp lol. It’s not iron but it’s a closed deck block and extremely stout.
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Psarsfie@reddit
The BMW Supra?
NoctD@reddit
No more nice BMW then...
mini4x@reddit
Their built by Styer so as long as they are willing I can seem then carrying on, has BMW confirmed the Z4 is dead or just this generation?
frankasaurussmite@reddit
I did my part, I bought one in 2023
Durcaz@reddit
Supra “brand” uh oh
InstructionSea9965@reddit
Been dead, ghostbusters…