Seat AD Will Interfere With Pilot Naps, Say Airlines
Posted by licking-windows@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 29 comments
Posted by licking-windows@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 29 comments
WhiteT982@reddit
Here I am after reading the title only thinking that they got tired of pilots falling asleep so they made a seat that would wake you up if you feel asleep.
Come to find out airlines are defending the crews right to nap and are against a new safety feature that could keep us safe in the event of a decompression.
I feel vindicated now
Thegerbster2@reddit
I suggest you read up controlled rests. It's an internationally recognized and recommended practice to maximize crew attentiveness during high-workload and critical parts of flight.
The complaint here is that the chance of the situation the AD is protecting against is such a remote possibility and the very real effects of reduced pilot attentiveness that the AD will cause is significantly more likely to cause real consequences. It's not that they don't want this problem solved, but they want a solution that doesn't cause additional safety issues.
CaptAPJT@reddit
Interesting to note it’s three European carriers who are petitioning against it, perhaps it’s EASA FTL’s and the choice of operators to only use two crew when three might be more sensible and avoid the need for controlled rest to begin with…
xxJohnxx@reddit
Even with 3 or 4 crew, taking a controlled nap can be a great way to make it through a redeye.
Occasionally even do a controlled nap on 3-4 hour shorthaul flights.
Thegerbster2@reddit
This is true, the article I linked does point out that controlled rests should be considered a safety net to manage unanticipated fatigue, and not a scheduling tool.
skippitypapps@reddit
The US needs to join the 21st century and understand what controlled rest is. You know, like the rest of the fucking planet.
anaqvi786@reddit
Controlled rest isn’t in the US for safety…and to preserve jobs in the flight deck. If you’re an augmented crew and one of you is tired, go swap. If you’re going to fall asleep in the flight deck, call out fatigued before you operate.
I’ve had situations in cruise that suddenly required two pilots upfront to fix without causing a problem. Controlled rest should not be a thing.
BandicootNo4431@reddit
What's EASA's accident rate? How does that compare to the FAAs?
And there ARE two pilots on the flight deck, just wake the other person up.
I don't see how this is any riskier than allowing crew members to use the bathroom.
anaqvi786@reddit
In EASA land you got 250 hour FOs are flying widebodies. Not a valid comparison. Sure you got two bodies up front but if one’s not awake and alert, what good does that do? What if you get a rapid depressurization and the guy asleep doesn’t wake up to get his mask on?
And let’s be clear here. If we start allowing controlled rest, who’s to stop the airlines from not crewing flights with IROs for long flights? Regulations are written in blood…the minute we compromise on them, and something catastrophic happens and it comes out one of the pilots was asleep, it won’t be a good look. At all.
No-Version-1924@reddit
Regulations. Do you think that authorities around the world, which allow controlled rest, also allow 18 hour flights with just two pilots?
NoteChoice7719@reddit
Can you point to the incident where “blood” occurred that caused the US to ban controlled rest?
And what if a two pilot crew after an 8hr back of the clock flight do something stupid and catastrophic because they were so fatigued not being able to nap on a controlled in seat rest?
BandicootNo4431@reddit
Great, so that should mean EASA's accident rate is even HIGHER with their less experienced FOs right?
So what is it?
Have you been in a rapid D chamber? It's LOUD. you are definitely going to wake up.
And what if crew member #2 is in the bathroom during the rapid D? Are we going to start putting piddle packs and diapers on the aircraft?
NoteChoice7719@reddit
Funny as every other country uses controlled rest AND augmented crews for longer flights.
Gloomy_Pick_1814@reddit
You shouldn't.
AIRdomination@reddit
FAA: This panel could harm or kill a pilot when deployed. Should we make a Boeing fix it? Nah fuck that, it’s not a safety hazard at all! Let’s just conveniently make the aircraft less comfortable and pretend to give an absolute shit about safety.
554TangoAlpha@reddit
Ya they’ve already adjusted the CA seats at my airline and guys are pissed. I’ve had to sit in it during cruise and it really does restrict the recline.
UNDR08@reddit
I wish I could nap.
21MPH21@reddit
Same
15 min nap is a game changer.
121 world needs to get on board.
30625@reddit
It is! Couldn’t do the continuous night shifts without these breaks from time to time. You just can’t beat the clock.
OriginalJayVee@reddit
EU Airlines: “Those stupid Americans are screwing with our sleeping on the job.”
Also EU Airlines: “Single pilot flight decks…how exciting!”
SlowDownToGoDown@reddit
I did a few hours in one of the modified seats.
The recline, and the whole seat tilt is very limited. It was annoying for a few hours of IRO duties. We don't nap in the seats, but compared to the right seat, it's def less comfy.
I get the logic behind this, but I would have rather seen them mod the door than the seat.
CaptainRedPants@reddit
Right? Wouldn’t some kind of a valve suffice?
alphamonkey27@reddit
Crys in cessna driver 😭😭😭
licking-windows@reddit (OP)
A 1 psi difference seems conservative, but I guess you have to draw the line somewhere.
banksjh@reddit
Depends on the size of the panel. 1psi on a 1 foot by 1 foot panel would be 24 pounds of force.
licking-windows@reddit (OP)
I think you mean 144 pounds.
However no ones putting a 1x1 foot breakaway panel in the cockpit wall. I've no idea the size of the panel but a guess of four inches per side gives 16 lbs of force, probably enough to break a single use hermetic seal
climbFL350@reddit
Not on the wall, on the cockpit door. There’s likely a large panel, perhaps even one sized large enough so a person could climb through it in the event of an emergency.
I don’t fly the 787 so I can’t speak for certain but the decompression panels on the cockpit doors on the 2 jets I’ve flown are quite large
banksjh@reddit
You're correct on the math. I was mathing before coffee this morning. I don't know about the 787, but apparently the 767 has a pretty large panel on the door for decompression http://hibdz.skydiving.co.uk/757/767_tech/airplane_general/flight_deck_door.htm
CASAdriver@reddit
A psi-d of 1.0 is pretty substantial. Especially considering it can have a total psi-d around 8.0 (altitude dependent) in cruise, that's a pretty major difference in pressure altitude from one section of the aircraft to the next