In the decades before craft beer became a thing, what beers were considered 'fancy'?
Posted by ColossusOfChoads@reddit | AskAnAmerican | View on Reddit | 289 comments
For example, in the movie 'When Harry Met Sally', what beer would Harry and his buddy have been drinking while they were on a double date at a Manhattan eatery? Because I remember they were drinking beer out of glasses.
I was a little kid in the 80s, and I remember having the impression that Lowenbrau was very fancy and high end. Any German reading this probably just snorted.
G00dSh0tJans0n@reddit
Imports. In the early 2000s it would be Beck’s, Guinness, St. Paulie’s Girl, killians irish red, hefeweizen,Franziskaner
mikeisboris@reddit
Yeah, that's what I remember as fancy from that era. Also Newcastle and Bass. I don't think Killian's was an import, but that and Michelob Amberbock were fancy too.
G00dSh0tJans0n@reddit
Killian's was one of those that would get listed on the beer menu under the "imports" section through - where they would charge higher prices than for regular "Domestics"
mikeisboris@reddit
Yeah that's true. Sometimes other things would show up under "imports" too, like I think Michelob did for example.
TooManyDraculas@reddit
Killian's Irish Red is a weird one.
In the US market it's always been produced domestically, and was produced/owned by Coors.
The brand originates with Heineken France and claims to be descended from and actual Irish Beer and appears to be named in reference to an actual Irish brewery. But the direct connection appears to only be Heineken France purchasing the "George Killian's" brand name from the family that had owned the brewery in question.
Heineken purchased the name, which had never been used on a beer before, in the 80s. The Lett's brewery they claim connection to closed in the 50s. They basically purchased rights to the name of a family member who was in his 20s when the original brewery closed, long after any beers they'd made were out of production.
So it was never actually an import. Anywhere. But was created and marketed to imply it was.
G00dSh0tJans0n@reddit
I feel like this was the case for a lot of beers in the late 90s and early to mid 2000s. You wanted your beer to be listed in the "import" part of the beer menu. It's one of those beer names that I remember seeing a lot in the early 2000s that kind of faded away.
keithrc@reddit
That's a really interesting explanation, thanks. I always knew Killian's wasn't an import, and never understood why so many people insisted that it was- until I turned the bottle around and showed them the tiny lettering that sad 'Coors Brewing Company, Golden, Colorado' or whatever.
Joliet-Jake@reddit
Imports.
absolute_poser@reddit
And to provide more context, up until about the early or mid 2000s, if you went to a restaurant beer was divided into domestics and imports, usually with a flat price for each, and the import price being higher.
Corona, Heineken, Guinness, Beck’s, etc… were the fancy import beers. Sam Adams was usually listed under imports as well.
Having said that, mainstream society did not consider beer a high end drink to be savored in the same way that wine was, at least not in the US.
balthisar@reddit
A lot of restaurants still have domestics and imports, with the new addition of "craft."
Domestics have a single price, imports have a single price, and crafts are individually priced.
Labatt Blue and Blue Light are usually considered domestics here in Michigan. Sometimes something like Negro Modelo will be misclassified as craft, but I think that's so it can be charged a premium compared to the other imports.
_oscar_goldman_@reddit
Hell, I've seen divey places that just put the few craft beers they have (well, pseudo-craft - Blue Moon, Goose Island, etc.) under imports. It's a term of art at this point.
sapphicsandwich@reddit
A place near me puts Yuengling under the "imports." Category even though it is A) Domestic, in fact the oldest brewing company in the US and B) It's extremely cheap at the grocery store. About $1 per 12oz bottle.
Remindmewhen1234@reddit
Corona.
I lived in Texas for a year or so in El Paso mid 80's. Came home and people were going crazy over this Mexican beer Corona.
I was like, never heard of it, never saw it sold in a bar in Mexico. Then I saw they put limes in it, and I thought well it is a shitty beer.....
Tricky-Wishbone9080@reddit
What about Dos Equis? I remember having a XX amber and it being pretty good.
TheDwarvenGuy@reddit
A beer named after an Americam revolutionary being called an import is really funny
HurlingFruit@reddit
One of the few amusing things about American beer in that era.
Tricky-Wishbone9080@reddit
I sure miss honey brown.
TychaBrahe@reddit
Dos Equis.
And Fosters tried really hard to make itself seem like a fancy import, especially around the time there was so much interest in Australia (the Crocodile Dundee era, the Crocodile Hunter era). I'm not sure how successful that was. I do know that Australians online were very amused , and suggested that Fosters in Australia is like Schlitz in the US. But a lot of Americans were calling each other "mate" and drinking Fosters while having a "barbie."
Distinct_Damage_735@reddit
"Fosters: Australian for beer!" (according to the old commercials, anyway...)
When I visited Australia, I was interested to learn that they considered Foster's swill, and really did not drink it at all; in fact I don't really remember seeing it anywhere. (Victoria Bitter was available everywhere, and was my go-to while in Oz.)
tibearius1123@reddit
“That’s why we import it to you yanks”
Pleasant_Studio9690@reddit
Thanks, Cuz! I’ve enjoyed a few Fosters here in the states. They weren’t that bad.
Tricky-Wishbone9080@reddit
I tried it once when I was 21 and it was ok. I tried it like 10 years later and hated it. 🤷♂️ I can see why the aussies laugh.
Lazy_Struggle4939@reddit
Export*
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
"Victoria: Australian for Budweiser!"
Distinct_Damage_735@reddit
In all fairness, regular Budweiser (NOT Bud Light or Bud Zero or whatever) is actually not that bad. It's not that great either, but...
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
Recently I finally got around to trying Coors Banquet. It was as good as people say. An inoffensive lager. I wouldn't mutter "aw shit" under my breath if that's all that was on offer at a cook-out, let's put it that way.
AziMeeshka@reddit
Coors Banquet and Miller High Life are my go-to when I want a lager that I can buy a case of. I've tried craft lagers and frankly, they are not worth the price IMO. Craft ales are great, but why would I want to pay $12 for a six pack of lager that tastes almost indistinguishable from a good non-light macro-lager that I can buy a case of for $20?
Tricky-Wishbone9080@reddit
I buy craft when I want flavor or just a beer with dinner, I buy high life when I want 6 beers while sitting by the fire. Isn’t it great we have so much variety to fit everyone’s desires.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
To butcher a Tolstoy quote:
Tricky-Wishbone9080@reddit
Those kind of memories are why even the smell of bud light is enough to make me vomit.
Distinct_Damage_735@reddit
Oddly enough, I only know about Coors Banquet because it's my in-laws' "summer day cookout beer", and yeah, it's quite fine for that purpose.
keithrc@reddit
In high school, I thought I was the shit for showing up at parties with those big Fosters oil cans.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
There was a Simpsons gag when they went to Australia and a bartender put a giant mini-keg sized can on the bar in front of Homer. He was intimidated.
benjpolacek@reddit
Love that episode. Favorite line was Marge asking for Coffee and the bartender said "Beer it is." She kept asking for coffee but kept saying beer.
Original-Opportunity@reddit
Fosters was not considered fancy in the U.S., but it was a novelty. I remember Fosters launching in the U.S. vividly as they partnered up with the commuter rail I depended on. It came in a can that was bigger than the other (bottled) beer but was pretty cheap, so a lot of the “train beer” enthusiasts switched to Fosters.
It was so goofy, everyone holding these giant cans on the train 😂
Beginning-Emu-2036@reddit
It’s crazy how beer was seen as the neglected sibling of drinks, shoved into the “fancy” import section while wine flaunted itself like the prom queen.
murderedcats@reddit
Coors Banquet would like us to think orherwise
Think_Western2633@reddit
Got it! That’s an interesting perspective on how beer was viewed back then compared to wine. If you have any specific thoughts or questions related to this, feel free to share!
Unusual_Ad_512@reddit
That’s an interesting shift in how beer was perceived, especially with how craft beer culture later grew in the US, turning what was once a clear-cut division between domestic and import into a more nuanced appreciation for flavor and quality.
TallDudeInSC@reddit
The first wave of craft brewery was in the early 90s. I wrote for a brewspaper back then. It was pretty niche but it was very well accepted.
SuperFLEB@reddit
This was the case when local craft beers started getting popular, too. I recall getting into a "Do you know what the word 'domestic' actually means?" when trying to get a beer that was made about three miles from where I was drinking it.
Adorable-Lack-3578@reddit
Sapporo
FlamingBagOfPoop@reddit
In the 80’s, Michelob and Heineken would’ve been “fancy” beers. I recall the Michelobs having a fancy gold or silver foil around the top.
dontdoxmebro@reddit
It was often imported beer. Stella Artois was marketed as an upscale beer in the US and Canada during the 80’s and 90’s. Heineken was also successfully marketed as a premium beer. Other imports such as Beck’s, Warstiener, Newcastle Pale Ale, Harp, Bass Ale, Grolsch, Red Stripe, St. Pauli Girl, Corona, Guinness, and Sapporo were also pretty common. The true 90’s beer snobs were into bottle aged Belgian beers.
Anheuser-Busch was using the Michelob brand for whole lineup of craft-like beers that were typically served as upscale brews. Michelob Ultra came later, and its success has eclipsed the rest of the brand, particularly Michelob Light.
The earliest craft breweries, such as Samuel Adam’s and Sierra Nevada, got going in the 1980’s, and would have been available regionally by 1989.
KilD3vil@reddit
Rolling Rock was a damn good outside in the summer beer, 'till it stopped being from the glass lined tanks of Old LaTrobe
papadeleon@reddit
Michelob, later Michelob Lager, was a GREAT beer for being a mass produced beer. It tasted like Budweiser, but cleaner, better, and with real beer flavor kids of the 80’s and 90’s loved. They discontinued in 2013 (I think) and I’ll occasionally write AB, asking them to fill me a couple of kegs.
They never do
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
That's a bummer, because it sounds like it was a good lager that the average 80s/90s European wouldn't have turned their nose up at.
I guess Coors Banquet fills that niche now: a nationally available lager that a boomer dad wouldn't give you side-eye for if you handed it to him, and that doesn't cost twelve bucks for a sixer.
JeddakofThark@reddit
Prohibition really fucked our beer industry. I did not understand why anyone drank the stuff before I started spending time in a local place that had 150+ beers on tap in the late nineties. My first Trappist ale (illegally sold at that place) blew my mind. I don't much like the stuff now, but at the time it was just so different and interesting, and with so much flavor!
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
I read somewhere that the big brewers switched to an ersatz recipe (the 'adjunct lager') during WWII, and when the war was over they determined it was so profitable that they didn't switch back. Or at least that's the explanation that was making the rounds on the interwebs.
da_chicken@reddit
It's typically called American lager. An adjunct is just something added to the beer that isn't barley, malt, yeast, or hops. In the case of American lager, rice or corn were added to the brew. It had the effect of making the beer very easy to drink. It was less bitter. Which is to say, it was bland. But it sold very, very well. American lager is the prelude to light beer, which is largely the same style of beer that also has low ABV. Light beer is even easier to drink, and you can drink even more of it without getting drunk.
There was actually a pretty good YouTube video about this just a couple days ago: https://youtu.be/Mrlw7xdBM_Y (~15 min)
icyDinosaur@reddit
It's interesting how many beer industries had some sort of shock in the early 20th century that can still be felt. I am Swiss, and we didn't have prohibition, but we had a large collusion of breweries (which was legal under Swiss competition law at the time, they only banned cartels if they hiked prices, which those guys didn't do) that essentially harmonised Swiss beer into an interchangable product.
The idea was that if all major breweries agreed to strictly delineated areas, and offered the same recipe, they could largely cut out advertisement costs (and what ads they ran, they often ran collectively as ads for "Swiss beer") and avoid costly competition. They also standardised prices and bottle sizes, and threatened not to sell their product to any supermarkets who carried (domestic) alternatives..
This, too, absolutely fucked the Swiss beer market since until the 90s there was no real competition. The cartel broke in the early 90s under a mix of tightening competition law and increased competition from foreign breweries.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
How's Swiss beer nowadays? Or are you awash in imports from your neighbors?
ibis_mummy@reddit
There are a lot more, craft, breweries now; but they're taking some time to get their acts together (unlike Mexico, which has a tremendous scene). Swiss craft beer is both very expensive, and a bit off. It's hard to find, for example, an IPA that is hop forward, and above 5% ABV or so.
As far as imports, they cost about the same, some a lot more (say, a bottle from Jester King is pretty juicy). Few bars carry them (outside of Guinness and Young's Oatmeal Stout), but there are specialty beer stores that started popping up around 20 years ago (Drinks of the World has been around a good bit longer).
SanJacInTheBox@reddit
THIS! When I was a teen (early 80's) some of my friends would get a pony keg for a saturday night beer bust and it was usually Coors or Budweiser. But, the first time I tried Michelob I was amazed. It tasted, well, it HAD taste (compared to that piss water that Coors and Bud were like). Once I turned 21 and could drink again (military) I'd try all kinds of beer overseas (Labatts, Paulander, Birra Raffo, 1664 all come to mind) I was floored by the variety of styles. Back in the States, Sam Adams was gaining in popularity, and I still like their stuff, so I haven't seen a Michelob in twenty plus years. I am not a fan of beers that are as thick as a ;loaf of bread', but I do like a great IPA, or Belgian Wheat.
nauticalfiesta@reddit
Rolling Rock was decent in the early 2000s. I'm not sure what changed around 2010-ish, but its not nearly as good as it was.
BM7-D7-GM7-Bb7-EbM7@reddit
Shiner Bock too in Texas!
ibis_mummy@reddit
The Spoetzel Brewery has been around for over 115 years.
thephoton@reddit
Do you mean Newcastle Brown Ale?
dontdoxmebro@reddit
I did mean that
c4ctus@reddit
Oh man, I forgot about Mich Amber Bock. I actually really liked that one.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
Part of the reason I made this post was because I stumbled upon old episodes of 'Michelob Presents Night Music', which came on after SNL for a few seasons back in the late 80s.
Holy cow, I can't believe I have only now found out about that! What a treasure trove. Music nerds, you need to go on YouTube right freakin' now and binge that shit. Conway Twitty, Taj Mahal, SRV, Miles Davis, Sun Ra, John Zorn, Nanci Griffith, Todd Rundgren, the Pixies, the Replacements, etc. etc. etc. Just totally random musical guests in the same studio on the same night. There was even a strings-attached lasted-ten-minutes Lou Reed / John Cale reunion.
But anyways, it is very very very 'late 80s Manhattan.' There must've been enough cocaine flying around to give a blue whale a heart attack. Some of the uploads don't have the Michelob commercials edited out. I'm old enough to remember when that wouldn't have been the least bit incongruous, but it is a curious relic.
dontdoxmebro@reddit
I remember seeing menus where the prices would be something like “Domestics: $1.75 & Imports: $3.00”, but the Michelob’s would be listed with the imports.
Michelob AmberBock is still a solid brew.
rogun64@reddit
Michelob Black & Tan was quite good.
flp_ndrox@reddit
I was a college student in the 90s. Amber Bock is like an old girlfriend to me.
SplakyD@reddit
Happy Cake Day! The beer in thel first keg I ever chipped in to buy my freshman year of college in 2000 was Amber Bock.
No_Bed_2755@reddit
og michelob is really good. I had to try it. My late grandparents always seemed to have an afternoon michelob lager.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
I'm thinking that might be the likeliest candidate for what Billy Crystal and Bruno Kirby had next to their entrees.
GoBombGo@reddit
Hank Sr. died in 1953, I assume you mean Hank Jr.?
I will definitely be checking that out, though, thanks for the recommendation!
reddit_user2010@reddit
They played recordings of older music.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
That must be what it was. One episode I watched was labeled 'Nat King Cole' along with others, and I thought "wasn't he dead by then?" They played an old clip from the 40s and then they interviewed Cole's old bass player who'd known Cole since they were kids.
pheen@reddit
In Minnesota (and I think a select few other markets), they have Michelob Golden Light, and I'd say it's as popular as bud light or miller lite.
-Lysergian@reddit
Michelob amber bock is the only Michelob I tend to see or drink, but ultra is definitely everywhere.
pheen@reddit
Yes, I didn't mean to imply Ultra wasn't everywhere. It's their most popular beer, but in MN, Mich Golden Light is as popular or more popular and it's weird because the only place to really get it is in MN and maybe a few other select markets (from what I understand)
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
Is it any good?
pheen@reddit
I mean, it's pretty much an inoffensive, drink a ton of them, doesn't taste like much when it's ice cold type of beer. I prefer it over something like Bud Light or Miller Lite, but a craft brew it is not.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
I could imagine having one or three of them with pizza.
-Lysergian@reddit
Yeah, i can't say i remember seeing that anywhere.
cIumsythumbs@reddit
Stella Artois was immediately what I thought of reading the question. They advertised a TON.
Nodeal_reddit@reddit
An English friend of mine calls Stella “The wife beater” because if it’s association with low life’s in the UK.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
I'm told that they marvel at US commercials for it. How they try to make it look all swanky, like James Bond is about to come swaggering in.
PartyCat78@reddit
I remember Stella Artois and Amstel Light being on the fancy side.
LikelyNotSober@reddit
Anything European, mostly.
tibearius1123@reddit
Fosters, Australian for beer.
amd2800barton@reddit
Which is funny, because Fosters is garbage. Aussies don’t drink it - they just export it. VB is the common go-to for brewed in Aus and consumed by Aussies in quantity.
Tricky-Wishbone9080@reddit
They don’t even really export it. Last I knew it was bottled in Canada for the North American market.
JJfromNJ@reddit
At the risk of starting a war, VB is garbage too.
OldBanjoFrog@reddit
I always preferred Coopers
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
"Listen mate, Victoria is like the Budweiser of Australia. You Yanks have an Australian trend going lately, don't ya?"
"Uh dude, I dunno man. That kinda sounds like a girl's name. Not like something that Mad Max would trade shotgun shells for."
"Awwww for fuck's sake. We'll just send you Foster's then. It's what ya feckin' deserve!"
CaliforniaHope@reddit
Bingo
balthisar@reddit
Luckily I moved to Germany in 1992 and I didn't have to find out! I left the USA detesting beer, and returned being unhappy that I'd not be able to drink German beer anymore.
Ah, but there was an awesome resource for foreign, delicious beer: The Beer Store, just across the border in Ontario. It's the Ontario government's monopoly supplier of all beer in the entire province. They're bare-bones and warehouse style, you have to ask the clerk for what you want, and because it's a warehouse, they freaking had everything. Altbier, Koelsch, Schwabish, Pilsen, everything. (How the hell was socialism defeating capitalism in the beer sales world?)
And because the border was essentially open back then, no one really cared to make us stop and pay the duty on a couple of cases of beer.
GoBombGo@reddit
In the extremely Canadian movie Strange Brew, they go to one of those warehouse beer stores. I always found that fascinating - they asked the clerk at the bare, unadorned counter for a case of Elsinore, and then the case came rolling down a chute from the back.
Is that legit how it’s still done up there?
balthisar@reddit
Yup, that's exactly how they do it in every The Beer Store I've been to in Ontario.
That might be changing. The Ontarians on Reddit all seem to be upset that their current provincial executive (Doug Ford) has recently allowed beer to be sold in some regular stores. I have no idea why anyone would be opposed.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
Maybe they're worried that prices will shoot up?
drewcandraw@reddit
I was a kid in the 80s as well, and my dad worked in advertising on some beer accounts. Coors Light was the big one. He worked on George Killian's when Coors started distributing it in the late 80s as their upmarket beer. Anything imported was considered fancy. Heineken and Amstel Light certainly marketed themselves that way.
Back then, beer in cans was perceived by some people (him included) as lower quality or maybe just lower class. As such, most of the beer he bought was in glass bottles. I remember specifically one time in the 80s when I asked if I could get a Coke from the basement refrigerator. He said yes, if I brought him a beer as well. I forget what it was I brought him, but it was a longneck bottle. He said that he liked to save the longnecks for special occasions and when company comes over. That's the only time I've ever heard that, ever.
By the time I was in art school in the late 90s, anything that wasn't Miller, Bud, or Coors was fancy. Even Corona Extra. My introduction to beer came on a European study tour and summer internships where we'd drink beer in the office at 4pm every Friday. My personal favorite was Boddington's, which I thought made me interesting but really I was more of a sophomoric spendthrift.
I still like Boddington's, but it's a lot harder to find these days.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
I remember Boddington's! With the can that had the plastic thingy inside so that it would "pour like draught" or whatever the reason was.
Brits consider it to be nothing special, and are surprised to find that we (used to) think it's fancy. They are also quite amused that Italians think Tennet's is fancy. In the UK they associate it with Scottish soccer fans punching each others' lights out, or something.
Carl_Schmitt@reddit
I first got into fancy beers in the early 90s right before the first American microbrew explosion. I mostly drank English pale ales and porters, German wheat beers and bocks, Czech pilsners, Belgian lambics and Trappist ales, Flemish reds, and French farmhouse ales. There were two versions of Lowenbrau back then, one made in Germany and the other in Canada. The original German was the better one, but still fairly pedestrian compared to the lagers of Ettal, Mahr’s, Einbecker, Georgenbrau, etc.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
Any idea what beers would've been on offer at a midrange-on-up Manhattan restaurant c. 1989? Your flair pushes me to ask.
Carl_Schmitt@reddit
Nothing really great. Heineken, Amstel, Beck’s, Bass, Newcastle, St. Pauli… Beer culture came late to NYC, the scene was much better in Boston at the time. NYC was all about fine wine and beer was looked down upon.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
Ah! Thanks for the inside info. Turns out you were the guy to ask!
dcgrey@reddit
Anything that was hard to get or unfamiliar, with the reverse being true -- anything local was considered swill. The example that comes to mind is Yuengling in the late 90s/early 00s when it started to be distributed more broadly. I knew people in North Carolina who would beg a friend traveling through Virginia to pick up several cases, whereas friends in Yuengling's native Pennsylvania would either consider it swill and not drink it or consider it swill "but our swill" and drink it out of stubborn pride.
The whole thing was silly, since it's a perfectly fine, tolerable lager. It's funny now to think how it was the modern equivalent of scoring a foreign beer that doesn't have a U.S. distributor or has to rejigger its recipe for the U.S. market/regulations.
Allemaengel@reddit
I grew up in the 1970s and 1980s in a county next door to Schuylkill County where Yuengling's original brewery is located and still live close by.
I don't recall many people around here back in the day within its original local distribution area term it "swill" and refuse to drink it. Tbh, I think it's just more that it's always been a part of our local scene and it's just a plain unobjectionable lager.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
I've noticed that good lagers are mostly the same. The job seems to be "don't fuck it up" rather than "stand out from your fellows."
Not necessarily a bad thing, to be sure. I go for a non-shitty lager most of the time.
Allemaengel@reddit
Yeah, true.
AFAIK, in Yuengling Lager's particular case it developed as a thirsty 19th century underground anthracite coal miner's end-of-shift beer after a brutally long shift in the mines.
It didn't need to be anything more than a simple easy-drinking lager
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
To misquote Tolstoy:
MaizeRage48@reddit
My dad told me a story one time about how he and his buddies in college took a road trip to Colorado over spring break because they had Coors there. Now I'll get mad when I go to a bar and all they have are macrobrew domestics, I can't even imagine what it was like then.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
The Italian equivalent of that is going into a bar and they have 20 wines, half of them grown within a 30 mile radius, and one lone tap with Heineken or Beck or some other generic euro-swill.
MaizeRage48@reddit
I mean, kinda, that one sounds like a quite literally "When in Rome" situation. You wouldn't go to a Chinese restaurant and order a burger. Yeah, it might be on the menu, but don't order it. But if they don't have SOMETHING they specialize in, they may as well build a time machine because there's no reason not to have something worth drinking now.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
It's not always that dire on the beer front. A lot of places will only have one lone tap, but it's usually a little better than Heineken. I'd say that two, maybe three taps is the average.
Also, it's not hard to find 'beer bars' where they'll have upwards of 5 or 6 taps. Of course, they would blow their circuits if they saw one of our over-the-top 20+ tap setups. Space is at a premium (it's crowded over here) and there's a lot of old buildings; they'd have a heck of a time installing more than 7 or 8 lines. So if they've got more than three taps, it's a place that takes beer seriously. In the city I live in I've got a few such places that I hit regularly.
On top of that, their 'birre artigianali' scene has gotten pretty serious. Their best could go toe-to-toe with ours, I think. Italians don't mess around when it comes to food and drink. I think they saw what we were doing and said "if they can do that, so can we."
It's come a long way in the past decade and change. (And as far as I can tell, they're way ahead of the French.) It still takes a tiny bit more effort to get to where they have the good stuff, but it's not the 'beer desert' it used to be. Beer is no longer an afterthought.
Finally, you've heard how fussy they are about food rules. One of those rules is that pizza goes with beer, rather than with wine. That's pretty taken for granted, from what I've seen. Order wine with it and people might not look at you funny, but it would be seen as atypical, bordering on questionable. That's my own impression, anyway.
This-Guy-Muc@reddit
Moosehead, an independent family brewery from Canada. Green glass bottles. Fancy in the late 80s and early 90s. John Grisham has the mafia lawyers drink it in The Firm to signal how extravagant they are.
And yes, Löwenbräu around the same time. But the American Löwenbräu was brewed in Milwaukee according to German recipe so technically not an import.
ibis_mummy@reddit
My dad's BBQ restaurant got Moosehead right around 1980. They had a whole advertising push, "The Moose is Loose in Texas". I might still have a banner or shirt laying around somewhere.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
I'm imagining a confused, angry moose stomping around through the Panhandle. "Arrrrrrrrrghhhh!!!! No trees!!! Hot!!!! Where am I!?"
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
There goes another piece of my childhood. Next you're gonna tell me that wrestling was fake.
PresDonaldJQueeg@reddit
Lowenbrau
stos313@reddit
Something foreign
benjpolacek@reddit
Funny because I actually went to the Lowenbraukeller in Munich as it was close to our hotel. Granted IIRC they prefer Augustiner in Munich.
nickalit@reddit
In the early 80's my first choice was Michelob. Heinekin was "high end" but to me was always skunky. At some point we switched to Michelob Light and drank that through the 90's. I had a relative who worked for Schlitz, but I never cared for it, or PBR or the other very cheapest beers.
I distinctly remember getting a Red Stripe in July 1999, and feeling very worldly -- and we could find it in the grocery stores once in a while. Mostly drank Blue Moon in the early 2000s, until the craft beer movement finally hit. Beer is one aspect of the modern world that has definitely improved over my lifetime.
Guinnessron@reddit
Heineken
schmuckmulligan@reddit
And at least in my area, it was frequently skunked from green bottle light exposure. My first putrid Heineken, drank with guys who were talking about how great it was, taught me a lot about the power of marketing.
GrannyLow@reddit
I thought Heineken was supposed to taste skunked?
schmuckmulligan@reddit
It's not! Or at least not as skunky as it tasted in the '90s and early '00s, when I was first old enough to drink it.
What I drink at the occasional cookout now is 1000 times less disgusting than the prior product. It's rarely my beer of choice, but 25 years ago, I would have easily taken a Natty Light over it, and now it edges out most of the inoffensive macro domestic lagers (e.g., Budweiser) for me.
jfchops2@reddit
People are telling the truth when they talk about how much better Heineken tastes in Amsterdam compared to the US
Ellecram@reddit
I was in Guantanamo Bay in the early 1980s (Navy). They shipped everything down there by barge then and the Heineken tasted like skunk piss.
Watchfull_Hosemaster@reddit
Heineken? Fuck that shit! Pabst Blue Ribbon!!!
Randolpho@reddit
PBR me ASAP
urine-monkey@reddit
Imports, basically.
Also, this ad is complete bullshit. I've been "drinking like The Body does" for almost 30 years and I don't look anything like him!
https://youtu.be/07kVYINvtHo?si=1_gCS8zfydVkRMSc
NoKnow9@reddit
If you lived east of the Mississippi, it was a treat to get Coors banquet beer.
Think_Leadership_91@reddit
Among blue collar workers? Coors because it wasn’t available on the east coast- see “Smokey and the Bandit”
Among my dad’s friends? German beer brands
Jug5y@reddit
Anything with gold on the label. Low carb for a short time there.
Sewer-Urchin@reddit
For my father growing up in the US South during the 50's and 60's, Coors was considered a fancy beer. It just didn't have a lot of distribution on that side of the Mississippi at the time, so was pretty rare to find.
boybrian@reddit
I remember going West on vacation and my dad buying Coors. It was a big deal bc it was unavailable in the East. Unless it was exported then re-imported.bleh.
According-Bug8150@reddit
I saw Smokey and the Bandit seven times in the theatre because my aunt had a thing for Burt Reynolds. I can not tell you my disappointment when Coors finally came to Georgia. Jerry Reed and Fred hauled ass in a semi for this?
Sewer-Urchin@reddit
I know, right? And they risked long term prison time for the equivalent of about $270k.
keithrc@reddit
TBF, lots of dummies risk long-term prison time for way, way less than that.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
Yeah, but you'd think a guy like the Bandit would play for higher stakes.
miclugo@reddit
Also with modern roads and speed limits it's like a ten-hour drive from Atlanta to Texarkana, so doing that round trip in 28 hours isn't all that impressive.
green_goblins_O-face@reddit
My father grew up in long island. He said the biggest day in town was when the local distributor drove a truck from Colorado and back filled with Coors. In the NYC area in the 60s-70s Coors was highly prized.
Defiant-Giraffe@reddit
Heineken. Sometimes Labbatt's. Stella Artois.
Guinness was always a thing, but it wasn't "fancy" per se, as it was relegated to weird old Irish dudes invariably called "Paddy" no matter what their real names were.
Ok_Duck_9338@reddit
Tuborg was the cool thing when I first drank with city people.
HurlingFruit@reddit
Late 70s-early 80s: Moosehead and Foster's Lager were the exotic foreign imports among my crowd. I had yet to discover the heaven known as Guinness.
stemandall@reddit
Stella Artois tried real hard to make us think it was "classy" beer. It never took because that beer is piss water.
c3534l@reddit
Sam Adams and maybe like Heinekin and Guiness.
ganaraska@reddit
In the early 2000s craft beer was just getting going in Ontario so there'd be places instead that touted how many different Imports they had. You never see that now.
mickeltee@reddit
I’m not sure what year When Harry Met Sally came out, but in the early days it was Sam Adams. I was raised on Rolling Rock until they got bought out by AB, the biggest mistake they made was shutting down that factory in Latrobe.
RodeoBoss66@reddit
It came out in 1989.
MightyCaseyStruckOut@reddit
Which makes sense in the Sam Adams concept, because that company started out as a craft beer company in 1984 and was still in its fledgling years when Harry Met Sally came out.
As a side note, if you're reading this and haven't seen that movie yet, you absolutely should.
RodeoBoss66@reddit
Oh I’ve seen the film at least a few times. Terrific romantic comedy classic.
Head_Cicada_5578@reddit
Rolling Rock isn’t too bad if you can get on draft, there’s something good awful in the cans that makes it taste worse.
G00dSh0tJans0n@reddit
Rolling Rock used to have a much better flavor before they got bought out.
livin4donuts@reddit
The appeal of the cans is that it’s like 6 bucks for (18) 16oz cans. It’s not the flavor lol
304libco@reddit
I miss old rolling rock so much.
Richard_Chadeaux@reddit
Blue Moon and Sunshine Wheat
TinCanBanana@reddit
Oh man. I felt so fancy ordering a Blue Moon back in the day lol.
Richard_Chadeaux@reddit
Especially if you had it in a glass with an orange, peak taste.
TinCanBanana@reddit
Yes! Though I can't tell you how many times I heard "Don't fruit the beer". I loved that orange slice.
nauticalfiesta@reddit
Heineken
Miler High Life - the champagne of beers
MKBushmaster@reddit
Miller high life. It’s the champagne of beers
SSPeteCarroll@reddit
Always and still is. My go to cheap beer
MightyCaseyStruckOut@reddit
Mine is Coors Banquet because, even as a macro, it tastes pretty darned good.
G00dSh0tJans0n@reddit
When I turned 21 we found local gas stations were selling 40s of High Life for 99 cents and we bought them all and stocked an old fridge full.
No-Conversation1940@reddit
Budweiser for my Dad, but we lived in Missouri. Budweiser is the premium beer in that lineup, Busch is the middle tier and Natty Light is the "economy" brand, at least that is how A-B used to define it.
Stein1071@reddit
Hamm's. Hamm's is the correct answer. I will die on this hill...
Hamm's The Beer Refreshing.
(/s juuuust in case)
Lupiefighter@reddit
I knew someone was gonna make this comment. without the /s no less. 😂
AcidReign25@reddit
When I was in college in the early 90’s Pete’s Wicked was the popular craft beer. Also Anchor Stream, Moosehead, and Molson Canadian.
wilbtown@reddit
Kick Ass Bass
TravelerMSY@reddit
Imports. And Michelob was considered fancy, just due to how it was advertised.
dr_strange-love@reddit
Frank Booth: What kind of beer you drink, neighbor?
Jeffrey Beaumont: Heineken
Frank Booth: Heineken? Fuck that shit! Pabst Blue Ribbon!
avidoger@reddit
Heineken, sheaf stout. Into to craft beer around 1992, widmer hefeweizen
fakename4141@reddit
In my early 80s on the west coast, the fancy bears for us underaged drinkers were Henry Weinhard’s, Anchor Steam, and Heineken if we were really splurging.
Bud I still remember was $7.41 a case (or maybe 12 pack) when I was 14.
hugothebear@reddit
Pabst won a blue ribbon at one point
Disastrous-Group3390@reddit
Michelob and ‘Michelob Dark’, Heineken, Grolsh.
sluggh@reddit
Henry Weinhard's.
ghjm@reddit
Before craft beer, most Americans considered beer in general to be lowbrow. The upscale beverage was wine. The idea of 'fancy' beer just didn't compute, like asking for a 'fancy' hot dog.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
Now it's like a fancy hamburger. Which is also more of a thing nowadays.
ghjm@reddit
That's a good example. Even today, the fanciest of fancy hamburgers isn't on a level with a reasonably good steak. Beer and wine were like that.
c4ctus@reddit
Stella Artois was the big one I remember. One restaurant here even served it in the fancy Stella goblets.
rogun64@reddit
One I haven't seen mentioned that was fairly popular is Moosehead.
Jake_Herr77@reddit
Bass, Harp, Stella, any of the Belgians (Deleriums, Duvel)
nymrod_@reddit
Heineken? Fuck that, we’re drinking Pabst Blue Ribbon!
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
Me personally, I think it's less bad than Heineken.
CrastinatingJusIkeU2@reddit
In the 90s, I was pretty impressed by the Sapporo in the fancy silver can. It was relatively expensive and not widely known among the non-snobs. I only knew about because I happened to see it a store when I was grabbing a case of cheap beer for my teenage cousin and am easily impressed by fancy packaging. I don’t actually remember what I thought of the flavor (I’m not a beer snob- I like light and non-hoppy). Only had it a couple times because I won’t pay that much for a drink (except girly mixed drinks).
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
It's okay, I guess? I'll drink it at a sushi restaurant. 'Memorable' is not a word that comes to mind.
rolyoh@reddit
Amstel Light was a big thing in the 80s and early 90s.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
I remember the radio commercials. They were really trying to lean in on the reputation Amsterdam had at the time. (Who knew that one day we'd make them look like such chumps when it came to legal weed?) It was the beer for people with 'open minds' who were one step ahead of the times. Definitely not for squares.
TooManyDraculas@reddit
Imported beer generally. To the point where ads for American beer often attacked "imports" as snooty.
This more or less kicked off in the 60s with heavy ad campaigns, famously Heineken achieved a lot of success marketing directed at house wives and the idea their beer was for special occasion and guests (a things that's depicted pretty well in Mad Men).
Belgian and German beers in particular were considered high quality, somewhat after that British beers. And people well off enough to travel in Europe, or who'd been stationed there post WWII, often sought the local brews they'd enjoyed once at home.
This becomes a factor in craft beer. When home beer and wine making was legalized under the Carter Administration the early home brew scene largely sought to replicate European beers. Often at lower cost. As the European beer market was more diverse, less consolidated and their beer considered much higher quality. Belgian and British ales became the big thing to emulate. Because ales are less complex to brew at home. And because Belgian beers were then considered the best in the world by many. While the similar (but less brew yourself) CAMRA movement in the UK became very influential in early home brew.
CAMRA, or the Campaign for Real Ale. Is an enthusiast and promotional group pushing for the preservation and continued production of what are called Real Ales in the UK. Traditionally made, naturally conditioned and cask dispensed British styles of beer. CAMRA's early documentation of beer styles, and brew methods that people could pretty easily adopt at home with no special equipment became a massive source of information for early US home brewers.
Which is part of how IPAs became the dominants style in US craft.
The craft brewing movement grows directly out of the early home brew scene. With homebrewers seeking higher quality ingredients and equipment, basically having to scale to do so. And eventually building enough of a following to open commercial breweries.
Though the "first" craft breweries some one pre-date this. Anchor was a pre-existing brewery, purchased as it was closing and kept going by a guy the Dairy business. New Albion Brewing, often cited as the US's first post prohibition brew pub and the first craft brewery started in 1976. Right around when home brewing was legalized. But sorta built the model later craft breweries would follow.
Early names to get big in craft. Sam Adams, Saranac, Sierra Nevada Red Hook. Were largely stated in the early to mid 80s. Around a baseline of brewing European styles. And as other's have noted. Often got listed with the "imports" on menus or stocked in that section of stores. Both down to similar pricing, but also cause of deliberate marketing.
The entire idea was to have the kind of quality and diversity that European beer had. But to have that quality locally, fresher and a more diverse selection.
In either case the associations of imports and European beer as fancy and higher quality were high enough that Early Craft ended up inherently tied to it. And to a certain extent early craft was meant to be even more European by bringing styles and quality that didn't get imported to Americans.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
Hey, thanks for the neat history lesson! I've heard about CAMRA but I didn't know there was that transatlantic connection.
Do you think the Brits teasing us for our 'pisswater' also helped drive us on? Because the "oh yeah? We'll show you!" impulse is a very American one.
TooManyDraculas@reddit
Not from what I've seen.
The international connection was largely in Americans experiencing regional European beers. The kind that weren't even available as imports. The wide variety of them,
CAMRA was influential largely because they were also into early craft brew. The kind of thing they were initially trying to preserve were stand alone pubs that brewed their own beers. And local breweries that really only sold to the surrounding area.
Which largely became the model for micro breweries and brew pubs in the emerging craft scene.
As a result were publishing information about traditional British beer styles. Both style guides and sometimes recipes. Of the sort that weren't generally publicly available in the US before home brewing was an established hobby.
So a lot of the info on how to even do it. How to make beer at small scale. Was in British books, magazines, and newsletters and publications associated with CAMRA.
That lead to a bit of a game of telephone in many cases.
American IPAs have higher hop and alcohol contents vs British ones. In large part because descriptions of IPAs as hoppier and higher alcohol content were taken to mean a LOT hoppier and LOT more alcohol than the reality.
The description was in comparison to British Pale ales and Milds. Not stronger and hoppier beers Americans were used to.
And importantly CAMRA was a reaction to consolidation in the British market and pub ownership in the 70s and 80s. Not to American macro beers proliferating.
Yankee_chef_nen@reddit
Genesee Cream Ale
https://www.geneseebeer.com/beer/genesee-cream/
jfchops2@reddit
We drank many many 99c tall boys of these in college
Gatodeluna@reddit
Like Brits seem to think Budweiser is some top beer when most Americans view it as being as classy as squirrel pee? It’s going to depend both on what part of the country you live in and what era. What’s the ‘in beer’ has changed a lot over the decades, and of course how available it is across the US. In California Mexican beer is often preferred over American beer. I think many Americans go out of their way to order non-American beers because in the pre-craft days American beer was boring. Heineken has always been considered a ‘fancy’ beer. Michelob. I personally will drink just about anything that ISN’T a cheap American beer (not including craft), and drink Mexican beers, lambic, Blue Moon, red-amber ales.
ageekyninja@reddit
People have always made their own beer recipes. There was never really a time when craft wasn’t popular imo. It may have been in a less hipster way and it may have not been called craft lol.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
Wasn't it much more niche back then? Like your uncle who you saw once a year who knew a guy who knew a guy.
ageekyninja@reddit
Back in the days when people had more time on their hands? Probably not as much as you’d think.
aj68s@reddit
The beer in the fridge was always bud light but when mom brought home Killian Reds you knew things were about to get fancy.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
What about for Thanksgiving dinner?
aj68s@reddit
Boxed wine
senatorpjt@reddit
When I was younger in Western NY it was the Canadian beers, e.g. Labatt Blue and Molson Golden.
Existenz_1229@reddit
In New England in those days, there was an urban legend that Canadian beer was higher in alcohol than domestic beer. People I knew drank Molson Export, Labatt's Blue and Moosehead. There was even a Moosehead billboard in Kenmore Square in Boston in that era. British and German imports were considered classy.
The import craze was resented by patriotic types. My brother remembers drinking at some neighborhood boozer in Massachusetts and being served a Budweiser. When he complained that he wanted an imported beer, the bartender growled, "Imported all the way from New Hampshire!"
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
I'm imagining the guy's son who inherited the bar. "The day I start serving that hipster trash is the day they bury me next to pop!"
FlyByPC@reddit
Jimmy Buffett sang about surgeons getting "drunk on Tuborg beer." So I guess that was considered swanky.
thephoton@reddit
When Harry Met Sally came out in 1989. That was well into the 1980's craft beer era. Sierra Nevada brewing started in 1979. Pete's Brewing started in 1986. Henry Weinhard's started in 1976. Brew pubs were everywhere.
The major breweries had also already jumped in with their own fake-micro-brews like Killian's Irish Red.
Of course the movie was set in New York, so maybe these west coast brands were not available there, but others like Sam Adams (1984) would have been.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
I stopped trusting the word "premium" a long time ago. I've seen that word slapped onto too many questionable products and services, beer included.
TheRateBeerian@reddit
In the 80s, imports dominated the minds of fancy beer drinkers esp in the east coast. Mostly German, because the few Belgian and English ales around were pretty far off from what most American beer drinkers were used to. Even Canadian imports were seen as “special”
There were a handful of craft choices though. Sam Adam’s, Pete’s wicked, Anderson valley, anchor, rogue I think.
keithrc@reddit
I might be misremembering, but i thought that a Black 'n Tan was made with Guinness and Bass, not Harp. That's why you commonly saw them together.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
If it's Harp instead of Bass then it's a Half-and-Half.
thephoton@reddit
All of those were operating breweries, but they were only a year or two old a the time and I'm not sure they'd have been available in New York, where the film is set. Even Sierra Nevada didn't have much distribution on the east coast back then.
TheRateBeerian@reddit
Yea, that's what I meant by referencing imports being more of a thing on the east coast - those craft beers are mostly west coast, the movement really seemed to take off in northern california, oregon and washington, and gradually worked its way east over the 90s.
An upscale bar in NYC would probably have offered Molson, Lowenbrau, Heineken and/or Becks as "upscale imported beers".
Carl_Schmitt@reddit
As far as I remember, there was only one place in Manhattan to buy really great beers in the 80s. It was Hercules’ Fancy Grocery in the West Village. I loved that guy. https://www.dnainfo.com/20110812/greenwich-village-soho/hercules-fancy-grocery-closing-after-decades-west-village/
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
I vaguely remember Anchor Steam from when I was a little kid. I have a very vague, fuzzy memory that the adults considered it a 'weird San Francisco thing' that no one would think to purchase.
TheRateBeerian@reddit
I'm sure a lot of people thought that. Anchor was also making their porter, Liberty, Old Foghorn, and the spiced Christmas ale in the 80s too, but the Steam was surely the flagship
JohnnyBrillcream@reddit
Commercials made Lowenbrau "classy"
I can still sing the jingle.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
Me and my dad were reminiscing about it, and he tried to find the commercial on YouTube but wasn't able to. I'll have to look for it myself, I think.
JohnnyBrillcream@reddit
Here's a list
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
Thanks! I'll check it out and e-mail my dad.
BM7-D7-GM7-Bb7-EbM7@reddit
I'm in my 40s so I started drinking a good decade before the craft beer explosion. People are saying import beers, which is true, they were considered "fancy". Heineken was a big one.
But there were some US "craft beers" that have been around as long as I can remember (late 90s when I was in HS and started drinking), Shiner Bock in Texas was the "different beer" or "fancy beer" for folks who didn't want to drink the standard beers.
Also Samuel Adams beer has been around as long as I can remember, I can remember my buddy and I obtained some from a friend who had a fake ID back in the 90s and we remember thinking "ewww, what is this crap?" Now I drink a Bud Light and cringe at the thought of thinking it was a good beer, I'd take a Sam Adams any day.
It is amazing how up until the 2010s the beer aisle in the grocery stores were 95% Natty Light, Bud, Bud Light, Miller Lite, and Coors Light. There would be a very small section with maybe 5-6 different "craft beers" or imports. Now you go to grocery store and it's 90% craft beers, with only a small section devoted to the Bud / Miller / Coors (and also now Michelob Ultra) section.
Routine_Phone_2550@reddit
Beer has never been considered fancy. Heck, craft beer isn’t considered fancy. American culture is really a big competition of who can be the most original so craft beer is just the beer version of this.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
Some people consider it fancy. Negatively so, in a lot of cases.
Routine_Phone_2550@reddit
Maybe in Europe
RyzinEnagy@reddit
The craft beer revolution changed the entire image of beer in the US. Before that, it was little more than a cheap drink meant to drink very cold, and its image was one of a refreshing summer drink.
There were "fancy" brands like Stella and Heineken, as others have mentioned, but beer as something that should taste good above all wasn't as much of a thing as it is today.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
That 'beer polarization' persists. I'm surprised it hasn't come up on this thread yet.
Prof_Acorn@reddit
I was in a bar in a rural area and ordered a Guinness, the only beer on the menu that wasn't a macro lager. The waitress and staff considered it fancy. A Guinness. Some guy made a comment about "you college kids". Guinness.
The bottle was somewhere back in their fridge. It was covered in dust, lol.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
I had that experience once, but with Fat Tire. And then she looked at me sideways when I asked for a glass. She was real happy when I tipped her a whole buck, though.
unthused@reddit
From my experience, Newcastle was the 'fancy' beer option. Some people also counted Stella Artois, though I personally thought it was gross.
The first US beer I actually liked was Sierra Nevada (the default IPA) and they were ubiquitous for a while, though I can't recall the last time I even saw it for sale. Followed by Bells Two-Hearted. Then local breweries started popping up and I've mostly stuck with them since.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
I ran that by a guy from Newcastle once. "You thought broon ale was posh? Bwahahahahaha!!!!!"
thephoton@reddit
They have a brewery in North Carolina, I believe. It shouldn't be hard to find in the Mid-Atlantic states. It's definitely still widely available in CA, I have a 12er in my basement right now (even though I'm down to drinking only maybe 1 or 2 beers a week at this point)
DBHT14@reddit
Definitely have heard stories about my dad and his friends hyping up Coors when it finally was widely available in the Mid Atlantic. It wasnt Good of course, but it was newly easy to get and had a mystique about it!
Shit it was the entire plot of Smokey and the Bandit, how could that beer not be special!
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
It wouldn't be the first time our generation was lied to by a cool movie.
Pleasant_Studio9690@reddit
In the early/mid 80’s I always thought Michelob was supposed to be higher end. My dad drank a regional beer -Genesse Cream Ale. It was Awful smelling stuff.
jegalgah@reddit
Clearly Miller High Life! It is the champagne of beers afterall!
engineereddiscontent@reddit
I'll do you one better and will say that I started drinking around the time that the craft brew scene in the US was really popping off at a much larger scale.
And when I was a kid/teen I don't remember anyone having opinions on beer the same way they did something else like Wine.
And I grew up in michigan. I do remember though when the craft beer stuff started popping up mass-market that suddenly I had uncles that were talking about beer like you'd hear some french guy at a vineyard talking about "subtle undertones of x, y and z" about some random 200 year old wine on the food network.
That was confusing. I'd try the beer. Sometimes they tasted more hoppy. Other times less. Sometimes they were thicker and other times not. But I never really got what they were so into. They also drink too much and I already had my stint drinking too much and now largely don't drink save for socially.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
Eh, I feel the same about wine.
I mean, I can tell Night Train's nasty and I can tell the expensive stuff is a bit better than the average stuff, but that's about it.
poser765@reddit
Imports… like Shiner. lol.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
"Hey? Shouldn't we put this with the domestics? It's from Texas."
"Shut the fuck up! It's fancy! Leave it with the imports."
"But dude, I bet there's like cowboys there who drink it and stuff. Like, the fuckin' Marlboro man is there on his horse taking a swig between cig hits, y'know?"
"Yeah well, there's a reason you don't own a bar."
leonchase@reddit
In the movie "Blue Velvet", there's a running gag where the main character (Kyle MacLachlan) drinks Heineken, and subtly mocks the young woman (Laura Dern) for drinking Budweiser. Later, Dennis Hopper's character berates him for requesting a Heineken, and famously screams "Pabst Blue Ribbon!". So yeah, depending who you asked, traditional domestics were considered either low-class or "real" beers, and imports were considered slightly fancier.
DankBlunderwood@reddit
Yeah, Heinie and Sapporo were probably the most commonly listed on restaurant menus under Imports. These were generally thought of as better than American beer at the time. St. Pauli Girl was usually there too.
manhattanabe@reddit
For my dad, born in the 1940s, Michelob beer was considered fancy.
Eff-Bee-Exx@reddit
IIRC, Michelob was considered upscale.
Heineken was about as “fancy” as it normally got.
Any other import was considered sort of exotic.
XxThrowaway987xX@reddit
For me, it was Grolsch or Guinness. I remember when microbrews started getting popular in the mid 90s. First one I ever tried was Sierra Nevada.
I could never stand American beer water.
JohnnyABC123abc@reddit
Michelob. Yes.
indyclone@reddit
New Castle, Bass Ale, Guinness, Heineken, and Beck’s are the ones I remember buying before creador beer was readily available.
Legally_a_Tool@reddit
Basically foreign beers, especially European beers, would have been what qualified as “fancy” beer before the craft beer revolution in the U.S.
hipdunk@reddit
Similar to Lowenbrau there was Tuborg Goldback then, and it advertised drinking it from a glass.
But Craft beer became a thing with Sierra Nevada Pale Ale that was first made in 1979 and it became the third largest privately owned brand in the US while still a “Microbrew” in the 80’s, when the Manhattan Brewing Company was fighting a local Beer War pitting its “craft” beer against a rival craft beer.
TillPsychological351@reddit
In the 1980s, clever advertising convinced many of us that skunked Dutch Budweiser (aka, "Heineken") was some kind of high class drink.
I don't remember Löwenbrau enjoying any particular kind of status. I wasn't even aware it was an import at first.
thephoton@reddit
It wasn't (except for a brief time in the 70's). It was brewed in the US by Miller under license.
distrucktocon@reddit
Usually it was Heineken or Stella Artois… or Guinness.
sean8877@reddit
Growing up in the northeast people who visited Canada used to bring back Canadian beer like Moosehead, Molson, Labatts, etc. It seemed very exotic at the time and the beer tasted better we thought (probably just because it was stronger though).
Cerda_Sunyer@reddit
I haven't seen it posted yet, but does anyone remember Löwenbräu? That was fancy when I was young.
limbodog@reddit
Imports. My uncle had a table that had a glass top over a wooden top with a recessed surface so he could cover it with beer bottle caps of all the various brands and styles he had tried. It was maybe 3.5' by 3.5' square, so it was a LOT of bottles. And yeah, the ones that were considered special were the ones that were imported and not commonly found anywhere in my area.
Beetle_Facts@reddit
Weihenstephaner (German import)
coccopuffs606@reddit
Imported beers; I remember Heineken being the “fancy” beer whenever all the neighborhood dads got together for bigger events. The rest of the time, they drank Bud and Coors.
blipsman@reddit
European imports were the "classy" beers before craft beer took off... Belgian trappist were at the top, then some more obscure beers like Grolsh or John Courage, then the more mainstream stuff like Guinness, Bass, Heineken, etc.
abbot_x@reddit
Generally, imports or European-branded beers were considered premium in the late 1979s through the 1990s. Domestics were considered commonplace.
In 1975, Miller started distributing Lowenbrau (well, a version of it) to the North American market. The ad campaigns for Lowenbrau established it as a high-end beer for yuppies. You ordered Lowenbrau when you closed the deal, got the promotion, won the club tennis trophy, or relaxed after a day on the slopes. That’s what I picture the New York yuppies in WHMS drinking.
Stella Artois and Heineken carved out similar niches. But really any import beer seemed fancy: Pilsner Urquell, Hacker-Pschorr, Spaten. These were mostly lager and pilsner styles.
Going out for beers even in the mid to late 1990s with nerds, I tended to see a mix of German and English beers along with early crafts like Samuel Adams, Bell’s, and Sierra Nevada.
Another stage of beer evolution that sometimes is forgotten: the chain brewpub. Gordon Biersch and Rock Bottom did a lot to get Americans into the idea of trying a new beer rather than just ordering whatever was cheap or had compelling ads.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit (OP)
Bog standard but still pretty good, from the Euro perspective. Nobody gets excited, but nobody's disappointed either. Like if it's some random bar in some random village that you're passing through.
abbot_x@reddit
A surprising number lasted till COVID! Increasingly though they had faced competition from the tasting rooms of local breweries, local pubs with large selections of crafts, etc. My own theory is that their customers largely "graduated" and either sought out hyperlocal bar experiences or just ordered better beers at restaurants.
I'm a bit older than you (late 40s). My experience is that in the late 1990s when I started drinking, being able to order any of like half a dozen drafts at Gordon Biersch seemed super sophisticated. In the early 2000s, it was acceptable though I was also comfortable ordering weird beers at bars. By like 2012, my wife and I were amazed there was still a Rock Bottom open, though when we'd lived in another town just 8 years previously it has been a reasonable "date night" or "after work" destination for us. (To be fair, the other town was Milwaukee whose Rock Bottom had a great location.)
Here's an article from 2023: https://www.pastemagazine.com/drink/craft-beer/brewpub-chains-closures-rock-bottom-gordon-biersch-bjs-ram-brewery-granite-city
malibuklw@reddit
Stella or Heineken is what I remember from my early 20s
sillygoldfish1@reddit
Rolling rock and hieniken were the bougie beers of college around here, before craft beer exploded.
DrGerbal@reddit
European beer. Prohibition killed good alcohol making in the U.S. for several decades. Because all those brewers and such couldn’t make it to make a living so they became like mechanics or something. And the tricks of the trade were lost. Till after years of being mocked for how bad American beer was. People started learning again and making great beers. It’s just like with wine. And that movie sour grapes.
Nodeal_reddit@reddit
Coors Banquet
PeorgieT75@reddit
Heineken, Beck's & St. Pauli Girl were widely available. Lowenbrau from Germany was a treat, then they started brewing a beer branded as that in the US, which wasn't as good. I remember Anchor Steam as the first good beer I had that was brewed in the US.
Redbubble89@reddit
According to my Dad, Coors on the east coast.
Beer was very boring from post Prohibition to about 1980s when home brewing was allowed to start and you could sell out of a pub. It was also based on state which is why California and the West Coast have older craft brands than some on the East coast.
RodeoBoss66@reddit
Having been a young adult in 1989, when the film came out, I would say that it could have been any beer on tap, really, even Miller Genuine Draft (which was quite popular in that era), but it might have been something like Heineken or Stella Artois or Asahi Dry or Kirin or another import beer. In the late 80s imported beers held about the same level of status and panache that craft beers do today.
defgufman@reddit
Old MGD was delicious
GoBombGo@reddit
Except I bet it wasn’t!
viruswithshoes@reddit
Underage me drank way too much MGD in the 90s.
TituspulloXIII@reddit
i recently found found a 30 pack and just bought it.
That first crack of the can brought back the nostalgia.
Tasted just like i remembered.
grumpycateight@reddit
I was a teenager when Sam Adams began the rise of craft beer -- I grew up north of Boston, so I remember the radio ads clearly, lol -- and my dad would sometimes bring home beers that were "odd" for the time, like Molson Golden. I could swear I saw a Red Stripe in the fridge once, don't know when that started being imported. My parents had a small collection of those Grolsch flip-top bottles in the basement, too.
My very first "craft beer" was a Samuel Smith Oatmeal Stout, very early 90s. The only stout I'd ever heard of was Guinness, at that point.
green_goblins_O-face@reddit
Easy answer is imports. If you wanna talk domestic the answer is going to vary greatly depending on which decade and where in the US we're talking.
Easy answer for that is whatever beer was hard to get in your area. For example, getting Coors in the east coast was a big deal. Yuengling in NYC was a big deal.
After that. All the old timers i know go on how Pabst Blue Ribbon and Black Label beer was the "good shit" back in the day.
fermat9990@reddit
European imports
callmeKiKi1@reddit
Heineken-if you were drinking that in the dorms you were really putting on the ritz.
CogitoErgoScum@reddit
So in WHMS, it was the late 80’s in New York. At that time there were not a lot of breweries, and they would have been relatively new. The two big ones would have been Manhattan and New Amsterdam Brewing companies respectively.
If it was Manhattan they probably were drinking British style ales(my guess), if New Amsterdam, it could be anything from an IPA to an amber, stout, or lager.
Early fancy beers for me would have been like Killians Red, or Bass, Harp, Newcastle. I think it all changed when Sierra Nevada started brewing, that’s the start of craft beer for me.
MagnumForce24@reddit
Michelob or Heineken
huazzy@reddit
In my 20's (mid 2000's)
Blue Moon
Stella Artois
Heineken
Guinness
Red Stripe
NYerInTex@reddit
If you were at a restaurant or most bars, you had two types of beer: Domestic and Imported.
The later were “fancy” and had a price premium.
Imported beers included Heineken, sometimes Becks if you were lucky , and when it came on the market, Sam Adams
Yes, Sam Adams was a premium beer but because the terminology was domestic and imported and the later were more expensive beers, that’s where Sam Adams was listed on the menu.
A pub might have Guinness, maybe even Harp.
You’d need to go to a microbrewery (existed basically in the northwest and few other places) or a rare spot that sold 100 types of beer aka peculiar pub in the west village, Manhattan, to get any others.
CupBeEmpty@reddit
It would have likely been something imported or one of the early craft breweries.
When Harry Met Sally came out in ‘89. By then New Albion, Sierra Nevada, Anchor, Boston Brewing Company (Sam Adams), Abita, Geary Brewing, etc.
Those are just some of the bigger operations that are still around. The early to mid 80s is when you really saw and explosion of small breweries because of the federal legalization of home brewing, tax code changes for small brewers, and a few other factors.
So it could very well have been US craft beer. Or it could have been imports.
I seem to remember my dad getting Rolling Rock, Heineken, or Yeungling as a “fancy” beer.
Dark_Tora9009@reddit
As a kid in the 90s I remember Sam Adams was like “cool” amongst the middle class suburban dads the way that craft beers are now. In the Mid-Atlantic Yuengling was also of a similar vibe. My dad liked those two as well as some of the imports like Beck’s, Heineken, Corona. I don’t remember him ever drinking things like Budweiser, Coors or Miller though but like more blue collar dads that were also into stuff like NASCAR were usually all about those.
AppState1981@reddit
Coors because it wasn't sold where I lived
Partytime79@reddit
Imports mostly like Heineken, Red Stripe, Amstel, Stella, and Guinness. In my area, Yeungling and Shiner Bock were a little bit rarer so those were always a bit of a treat if not exactly fancy. This was 20 years ago. All the beers mentioned are a trip away now.
RestaurantOk4837@reddit
Fosters
MortimerDongle@reddit
As others have mentioned, imports. That said, craft beer was a thing in 1989, just not to the extent it is now (much more regional).
w84primo@reddit
Exactly! I remember going to visit my cousins in Colorado when I was maybe 14 and at the time they were brewing their own beer. And several others were already doing the same thing. And they took us to some local brewery. I guess that was around when the movie came out. Some point in the 80s.
But you’re absolutely right, it was a thing. Just not what it is now.
spidernole@reddit
Michelob, Heineken
Mouse-Direct@reddit
Rolling Rock and Heineken along with Miller Genuine Draft dominated the college market. Mexican beers like Corona and Dos XXs were popular, as was Red Stripe. This was followed by a horrible PBR phase until craft beer took over. Source: in college in the south from 1989-1993.
thestereo300@reddit
Guinness, Bass, New Castle etc….
Head_Cicada_5578@reddit
As a little kid in the 80s you had the correct impression. Imports were considered “fancy” before the craft scene and those imports were usually rather meh European beer like Stella Artois or Heineken.
defgufman@reddit
Peroni
lavender_dumpling@reddit
I'd never come across a beer that was considered fancy, just "weird". There's quality shit that's more expensive and cheaper beers that are considered odd/trashy.
Now, wine was always considered "fancy". When my blue collar father became a "wine-o", the first thing that popped into my head (as a child) was "that's......effeminate".
Obviously nowadays I don't think that, but it's funny looking back on it.
AnotherPint@reddit
During the ‘70s and ‘80s, Lowenbrau and Heineken were marketed in the US as sophisticated, exotic imported beers. Lowenbrau came in light or dark versions (though they tasted pretty similar to me) which was considered different and exciting. The domestic premium choice was Michelob, a big step up from Budweiser.
quasifun@reddit
In the late 80s when the movie came out, I was not an enthusiast, but I drank beer. Anything imported in a bottle was considered fancy. Heineken was the most popular import among my friends.
GhostOfJamesStrang@reddit
Sam Adam's. Stella Artois. Anything imported.
DifferentWindow1436@reddit
Not sure about that movie, but in our area we just didn't have a lot of range - so...Bass Ale, Guinness, and Becks Dark were the beers we as really young guys thought were a level up. If you could find it - Sierra Nevada - but that was rarely on tap in my area. By the early 90s, Sam Adams got popular and then there was a microbrew and brewpub sort of 1.0 version happening in NJ. I think I stopped hearing the word microbrew around 20 years ago though. Everything is craft now.