Do you ever get over the feeling of one foot in each country?
Posted by Show_Pony_@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 49 comments
I've been living in NL for more than 10 years (originally from the UK) but still don't feel fully at home. Most of the friends I've made over the years have been other expats (who have now left) and I feel quite isolated. My partner is here and I love the country; I miss friends & family in the UK but not the country or culture.
I'm curious to hear from others how they deal with the feelings of not belonging anywhere - and also from those who do feel they belong in the host country; what made the biggest difference?
sibilantepicurean@reddit
yep. but to be honest i also felt this way in my country of birth because i was born with dual citizenship between the US and the UK, and so never felt quite 'american' enough in the US, nor 'british' enough when i went to the UK. it wasn't just a feeling, either. people would make statements about how i couldn't or wouldn't understand something because, well, my father was british, so how could i really relate to [typical x experience having a typical american dad]. or conversely, despite the time i spent with family in the UK and having british citizenship, i can still remember every time my british friends would make some off-hand remark about my not 'getting something' because i'm not 'really' british. when in reality, i am as british as i am american! i just have atypical experiences of being both.
funny enough, after overcoming the initial culture shock of moving from the deep south in the US to canada, and after spending a little over a decade living and working here, i think i feel more comfortable being 'myself' here than i ever felt in either the US or the UK, because canada--and particularly ontario--is a country filled with immigrants from all over the world. it's such a common experience to meet people who are either first generation born in this country, or who are immigrants themselves. knowing so many people who have gone through similar experiences to mine has helped a lot.
i guess when in doubt, connecting with other immigrants in your new country is always a good idea!
wherehaveinotbeen@reddit
Been abroad 30 years and I still don’t fully feel home, England will always have my heart
2oom2oom@reddit
Very similar to me, I've been in NL 10 years, the rest of my family is in Canada. What really tipped the balance for me was having 2 kids here, one of which was a home birth. This is my home now and my happy place.
Show_Pony_@reddit (OP)
That's definitely part of the challenge for me. Sadly we weren't able to have kids, so I don't have that connection we would naturally make and I find it hard to make friends with Dutch people in other ways.
misatillo@reddit
I lived 10 years in NL and my husband is Dutch. I met him there. We don’t have kids and I find the same difficulties as you. I made no Dutch friends. Even his few friends didn’t really connect with me.
temp_gerc1@reddit
Just curious if you weren't able to make any Dutch friends, how did you meet your husband?
misatillo@reddit
At work ;)
Show_Pony_@reddit (OP)
How did you overcome that, if you don't mind me asking?
misatillo@reddit
To be honest I didn’t. I tried many things including learning the language but I never felt I fit or at home. And I always felt alone. In the end I came back to my country to give a chance living together with my (now)husband over there and we have found that we are way happier now than we were in the Netherlands. My husband have made local friends and we are 40-50 so it’s not only a matter of age. I think Dutch society is more difficult for some things than Spanish one.
mayfeelthis@reddit
Hobbyist groups.
2oom2oom@reddit
I'm sorry to hear that <3 To be honest though, my closest friends are other expats or a few Dutch people who don't mind speaking English. Even though I do speak Dutch now.
gonative1@reddit
No. I’m also a third culture kid and we tend to leave it mostly behind mentally as children but then have a weird floating in nowhere land feeling for ever because we dont adapt to our new country either. So we feel like we dont belong anywhere. No going back and no going forward. Stuck. Just have to shake it off and make the best of it. Fake it until you make it. Americans say this a lot but have no idea unless they get dragged around the world then dumped somewhere.
whenilookinthemirror@reddit
Yes, I know that feeling, I was raised in 2 different countries and no matter where I am people want to know where I'm from due to my accent. It's like everywhere or nowhere is home. I am happy for it though as it is easy for me to assimilate into foreign countries. Too many in my country are unworldly and untrusting of foreigners and scared to traveling. It is a shame really, for our culture and the planet in general.
gonative1@reddit
I hear you. I’d like to start traveling again to take advantage of my adaptability. Staying in one place is what feels weird and uncomfortable to me.
Wistful-zebra@reddit
Yes, absolutely. I had a similar experience to you, but in Belgium. It's hard when your family and friends are still back home living their life, and your life in the other country feels temporary even after so long. I also had experiences with all my friends in Belgium moving on and leaving after a few years, that's the major issues with making other international friends.
What has helped me:
1. Really thrown myself into local life here - learn about the politics, local community issues, local groups, join a political party - start to really deeply care about the area you live in. One day I found myself furious about the re-opening of a closed street to cars and I knew I was starting to feel more local. Joining a political party really helped me do this, but it could also be doing some volunteer work such as litter picking etc.
Try to make friends with expats and locals who are here for the long haul. Not an easy one for sure, but by going to activities such as reading groups, cooking classes, pottery courses (whatever floats your boat) will help you meet other people who are not going to leave any time soon. Of course, you never know, but I've slowly built a more stable friendship group of other international people and locals alike by doing this.
Language - obvious one, but I'm not sure from your post if you speak Dutch.
Learn to let go of 'home'. I found this one very hard actually - I think the big problem of living so close to home is that its so easy to visit, so you never cut the ties really. I was going back every 6 weeks at one point. I've cut that down to every 4 months now which helps me really feel like Belgium is my home.
Adding on to that, insist people come and visit instead of always going to the UK. Maybe you do this, but I have been guilty of this in the past. Unfortunately, this meant I had to let go of some friendships - people that would only be free to see me if and when I came back to visit.
Good luck, I recognise the one foot in each country so much from your post. When I was visiting the UK in the past, seeing friends and family, I'd sometimes have this horrible aching anxiety that I was missing out and felt so isolated. Slowly but surely I've managed to come to peace with my choices in life and enjoy the fact that I have my life here, but can also nip back to see family really whenever I want.
Snoo-94703@reddit
Boosting this response. I’m from the U.S., husband is from Italy. We were long distance until we were finally able to move to Spain this past year. We are finally coming up on living here a year and all of the above that has been mentioned helped fast track that ‘home’ feeling. It helps that my partner is better at Spanish than I am, and we signed up for intensive Spanish language courses pretty quickly.
The local politics are incredibly important to understand, this is something that I tried to research before moving and continued to take an interest in after arriving. With our local friends I spend a lot of time listening to their opinions over talking about my own since I am the newbie. Being able to follow along helps with bonding with other locals. Every time that there’s a holiday, I research it to understand a little bit more. Another piece of advice that I’d like to tack on is making friends with the local business owners. It makes such a huge difference because all it takes is one social business owner to then connect you to 5 other locals truly invested in the area.
I agree that this point is tough. You have to fight that fear of vulnerability, rejection and insecurity. When we found our perma-apartment we purposefully picked a location in the middle of a city so it would be easy to host events and future friends. Because we have to save money we recently started hosting weekly Wednesday dinners, inviting various acquaintances on a WhatsApp group (putting a little extra effort into people who we know will be sticking around for a longer period of time). If people have family visiting, bring them! You’re vegan? We’ll make something for you. Don’t have time? Skip the food and come for a night cap. Can’t come? Don’t worry there’s always next week. It felt like a real victory that we had 50% native Spanish speakers at the last dinner that we hosted. Based on past city socializing experience, my guess is maybe 5% of the people that we are currently interacting with will end up being long term friends.
4+5. It’s definitely less easy for me to visit home, but I have found myself back in the U.S. 3 times this past year; way more than I was planning on. I’ve already told my family and friends that if they want to see me they can come visit Spain and stay in our spare room. No travel holidays for us this year. It doesn’t help that I’m subletting my place back in the U.S. (bc rent control). From my experience, this is the toughest point to stick to and is the big one that gives you the one foot in and out feeling. At the moment since I’m still only a year in, I’m just making peace with the fact that I have to make more time for my social calendar for new friends and old friends.
Since it has been 10 years for you, I’d suggest keep doing exactly what you’re doing by taking an honest look at your current habits and decide which ones that you have to shake up to get out of your comfort zone.
Show_Pony_@reddit (OP)
Thank you so much for your thoughtful and detailed reply. It's already a huge help to know I'm not alone in this feeling and your advice makes total sense. I do speak Dutch but no 1 & 2 in your list are what I need to tackle (I was political and involved in community projects in the UK and still find myself more drawn to news there than here). There's probably a part of me that's scared of failing which means I don't try hard enough.
Wistful-zebra@reddit
You're definitely not alone. It's not easy at all - easier to stick to what we know. I follow UK politics and news now with much less interest than I used to.
I wouldn't worry about failing, what's the worst that can happen? My feeling is that we cling on to our old life out of safety. But you've managed 10 years already which is amazing.
heliophilist@reddit
You are lucky, that people come and visit you. Secondly, when I got interested in the politics, I learned that it's shitshow in DE. The more I learned about issues and problems, deep core, the more reality becomes vivid. And all the charm of living got lost. But the positive side is living like an island. Nobody cares about others. Everybody has his or her own propaganda. It's fun to observe that.
Wistful-zebra@reddit
I do feel lucky, but the distance is so short so I think it's easier. I am not sure I would expect a lot of people to travel half the world to come visit me, but right now it's just a train ride away.
For politics, doesn't everyone have their own propaganda wherever you live? That's why I tried to get involved on a more local level - then at least I see some good happening in community projects etc. But it's hardly all roses, I just like to get involved with a group where I can feel connected to what's happening in the country.
I reached a point where I didn't want to live in an expat island anymore, and wanted to see if I could connect. Otherwise, I'd probably have left and gone home.
TravellingAmandine@reddit
I feel the same but I think it’s because my adoptive country (UK) has let me down so much that I spend every day figuring out ways to leave and never come back. At the same time I don’t want to go back to my home country. I think it would be different if I enjoyed life in the new country.
Maleficent-Test-9210@reddit
I haven't left yet, but I'll be happy to put the US in my rear view. I'm going to France.
alexdaland@reddit
I love that you get downvoted on this - by Im going to venture a guess - Americans who believe America is the only country in the world.... :P
Maleficent-Test-9210@reddit
Nope. I've travelled to many countries. I've studied other languages. And I have my acceptance letter to uni in France. Nice assumption, though. Screw downvotes and idiots on reddit.
inawildflower@reddit
I suspect you're getting downvoted because you're in a thread of expats who know the reality of putting home in their 'rear view' and were probably just as keen when they left as well.
kiefer-reddit@reddit
If you don't do these three things, you will never feel "at home" in the place you live. Doesn't matter where it is.
Successful_Luck373@reddit
Like you, I've been an expat for over 10 years and went through cycles of feeling like I belonged, losing that feeling, and starting over again. Having a local tribe and speaking the local language fluently really helped, but I don't think there's ever been a moment where I no longer felt like an expat.
Ironically, I'm on the brink of moving back to my native country, and I am just as terrified of not belonging there and feeling socially isolated after having been gone for over a decade. I think my notion of "feeling at home" has fundamentally changed so much after this experience that I'm not sure if I'll find that feeling anywhere in the short term.
dee_dubs_ya@reddit
I’m also preparing for move back end of year. Reverse culture shock is going to be real and not sure how to prepare for it even though I know exactly what I’m getting into.
Successful_Luck373@reddit
Same. I'm prepared to feel like an expat for the first 1-2 years. I'm hoping to move to a metropolitan, more international-oriented city to ease into things. Anything beyond that seems pretty unbearable right now.
dee_dubs_ya@reddit
I wish you “successful luck”. I’m going straight to the hometown which in fairness is a big city - but not a very international one.
mayfeelthis@reddit
No, I like it.
Specifically because it’s hard to feel at home with a country.
NippleFlicks@reddit
American who has been living in the UK for 6 years now and the hardest part is my heart being in two places. I don’t think it’ll ever go away, and as my husband (also American) and I start to think about expanding our family it’s only going to get worse. Not being around to see my parents and siblings, missing some things in general, etc. But then I also love many aspects of our life in the UK (as you know it has its awful parts). No solution, because I know if we ever moved back I’d be devastated anyway.
Weekly_Beautiful_603@reddit
Not entirely, but at 44 I’ve been full-time overseas since 2008 and spent most of the time before that overseas on shorter stints. I’m now too far away from the U.K. to really justify going unless it’s for a month or so. Luckily my job allows me to do that most summers.
Over time, a lot of the “noise” has faded - people don’t invite me to things because they assume I won’t be able to make it, some people fall out of touch and I now count home as here and not the U.K. Sad to say, as you get older connections are lost in other, more final ways too.
But I still consume far too much news and comment about the U.K.!
CiderDrinker2@reddit
Same - from UK, living in NL.
I went through a period of intense homesickness after my father died. I was sick of being a foreigner. Sick of being in a place were I did not belong. After Brexit, I felt less welcome. I wanted to feel that I belonged somewhere. I became obsessed with 'Englishness' - watching videos about Morris dancing and bell ringing, reading books about English folklore and old country customs, immersing myself in poetry - Hardy, Betjemin, all that. Perhaps my body could be in the Netherlands, but my mind and soul in England?
Finally, I decided that would not do. I had to make a move - to go home. I gave up a well-paid, easy-going job in the Netherlands, and moved back.
That was the biggest mistake of my life. The UK sucks. It's poor, badly run, creaking at every seam. The things that I loved about it were no more. The bucolic, imaginary, green-fields and country vicarage England existed only in my mind. It's just overpriced slum housing, terrible railways, a broken NHS, low salaries, and a class system that puts everyone into a box for life. The gentle manners I remember - the civilised little nods and mutual trust that greased every life - are gone, too. Life is too stressful now, too depressing, for such niceties.
I wasn't 'home'. I didn't know this place. I didn't fit in with these people.
I had to accept that the England I loved no longer exists, and the England that exists I no longer love.
I moved back to the NL - and tripled my salary in doing so.
Unfortunately, that's coming to an end. I was able to get special sponsorship for that job, and without it - (thanks to bloody Brexit) - I will have to go back 'home' again.
I think once you move abroad you can never really go 'home'. You don't have a 'home' to go back to. We have become 'internationals'. I think it becomes necessary to lean into it. Let the England of happy memory lie in its story books, and keep on moving around the world.
Maybe moving to another English-speaking country is a good compromise. I'd jump at Australia or New Zealand if I could.
Show_Pony_@reddit (OP)
Thank you for sharing that. It's exactly the experience I had when I went back for a couple of years. It's such a different place.
The_curiousmind7@reddit
I’m 38 years old and up until now I don’t know where’s home. I lived in different countries but it’s like for me I’m still seeking home…where I belong. Sometimes I feel like the character in the animation Hotel Transylvania. Always wondering what’s out there.
I’m glad you made this post, because I’ve been searching on YouTube for vlogs or storytime about people who are conflicted if they belong, don’t fully belong or not at all in the place they are in.
Spirit4ward@reddit
41 here and a bit of a rarity in that I have been “expating” most of the last 20 years since I got out of the army. Travelled all over and always had that same feeling of searching for a home even after living in more than a dozen countries and travelling to 50+. Once I had kids almost ten years ago the search for “home” became even more serious and difficult as we had to take a lot more things under consideration.
Decided on Madrid and moved the family there. For the first time I don’t feel like an Expat I feel like an Immigrant. Like I am gratefully in the country I choose to call home and am working hard to integrate and become a part of it long term. It feels different. I have to feet on the ground. American politics sure don’t hurt in making me not long for home though!
alexdaland@reddit
Im also 38, and have a bit of the same feeling. I feel at home where I live, all the neighbors and half the expats know me and so on. But I do ofc have a certain feeling of "Im not Khmer, and will never become one" no matter how well I learn the language and live here. But all in all thats a minor issue in that people are very friendly towards the fact Im a foreigner and never experienced any negative locals that "dont want me here".
I do also have a bit of wanderlust, and have lived in several countries in my life, me and the mrs have talked about trying something else. Perhaps Micronesia or similar. But for now I feel pretty at home here.
inrecovery4911@reddit
I appreciate you posting with your experience. I'm 52 and have lived in 8 different countries. None of them have felt like where I belong, including my birth country and the one I have been a permanent resident in for 2 decades.
I think there are people like
dee_dubs_ya@reddit
Totally feel you - love my life here in UK when compared to time in U.S. I have felt being in 2 places for 16 years now and for me it has just gotten more acute as I get older and parents and niblings start to age and grow. Always cultivate your friend network would be my best advice. Expats don’t have the advantage of having blood to fall back on like natives do. Obviously having children of your own (when / if) and a partner from the country should help put roots down. If all else fails then maybe you just need to accept that and figure out how to split your time more between the two places. This doesn’t solve the problem but may help feel like you’re more connected with family. As for me, I have great friends here but am now single and I can see how fragile this support network is, being many of them have kids or are other expats whose presence here is probably not permanent. These people are my tribe. But I actually made the decision to move back home this year for family - not due to hardship but to spend more time with them. Thankfully I am now a dual national so I can’t say the decision is final and I will probably continue to have my heart in two places, split between my family in U.S. who I will now be geographically close to - and my tribe in the UK.
captaincrunk82@reddit
It depends on how passionate you are about buying into the country you’re living in*
lesllle@reddit
Since we're all just sharing stories, I have had kids in the NL and it actually highlighted the ways that I don't feel connected to the culture. The schooling is so different (not in a good way) and I connected with other expat parents, but they also leave. When I first moved here I swore I wouldn't do 'the expat thing' and I would make Dutch friends. After over a decade the closest friends I've had are expats. But every time they leave, I'm wishing I was going, too. In a lot of ways I feel like the Dutch still act like they have their medieval walls up. The best way I've met people are through sports. Though all of these things just feel like a bandaid and I personally haven't had the feeling of belonging either. I don't think that will go away and I'm worried the more time I invest here, the more I lose from where I would rather be. Also, as I get older, I realized there is no way in **** that I'm going to retire here. I imagine that they would diagnose me with some mental deterioration disease in the old persons home just because they couldn't understand my Dutch and it's like a horror movie. Sorry I don't have something more positive to say. You're not alone in your feelings. If you DM me I can share some tips (bandaids) that have helped with the day to day.
JayOneeee@reddit
Yep, I feel like this right now. Also we are from the UK and have been living in NL for 5 years. I'm talking to my work about moving my job back to the UK as we speak as my wife is now pregnant, I think we will go back sometime early next year if all goes to plan. I am a bit scared as the UK isn't in the best of places, but it just feels the right thing to do and what the heart wants even though the head says it's not a clever move. We will need the support there with a baby I think.
Show_Pony_@reddit (OP)
Totally understandable, I know quite a few people who have gone back for that reason. We don't have kids, but I do now have elderly parents and that presents a similar dilemma.
heliophilist@reddit
May I ask what's wrong with the UK? I was considering as my destination as people there speak English. Writing from DE.
Show_Pony_@reddit (OP)
It's changed a lost in the past 15 years thanks to austerity. Public services are in a terrible state and people generally seem unhappier. Quality of life is much better overall in NL (not that it doesn't have its issues of course). But being away so long, part of it for me is also seeing things that were always in the culture, but that I didn't recognise when I was in it (e.g. the "keep calm and carry on" can actually be really toxic, particularly in a work environment).
alexdaland@reddit
It took a while, Id say about 5+ years in total before I felt Im home. For me I met a girl, she got pregnant and then it got serious with getting a "real apartment/house", before that I would stay at hotels, rent a room here and there and not really having my own real place. But when me moved to a small town, got a house, and I started becoming friends with the local neighbors etc I started feeling home.
After a while I no longer feel that my home country is home anymore. Sure Id like to visit and say hello to family and friends, but have absolutely no interest in living there. That might change as my son gets older, but for now I call Cambodia home and a perfectly happy with that. I have nothing against my country (Norway) and its a nice place to live, but now I have all my friends here and so on, so if I move back Im sort of starting a new life there even though I obviously speak the language etc. Its actually a bit weird whenever I meet a Norwegian down here, I feel like Im rusty speaking Norwegian and it takes me a minute to get into it and remember what words to use.
RexManning1@reddit
I won’t be able to until the day I close up shop. I own businesses in both countries so I have to straddle them. Not really ideal, but it affords my family a very nice life.
Roger-Dodger33@reddit
I felt this way when I was in Sweden, but now that I live in Serbia I don’t feel it at all. When you get the right place with amazing weather, friendly well dressed people, safe and cheap cost of living. I have 0 intention of going back to my original home in Canada (except to visit family)