Parking price gouging
Posted by Rakebleed@reddit | Dallas | View on Reddit | 118 comments
What happened that caused event parking to explode in price? I paid $30 to park at the fair today and $35 to park at an event in FW last night? This isn’t in premium or VIP lots with some feature of additional convenience it’s basic public parking. Seems like everything has at least doubled within a year with no additional cost of doing business that I can fathom. What gives?
cajonero@reddit
For the fair, that’s a rookie mistake. Park at a nearby park and ride (Market Center Station for example) and take the DART. Sure it takes a little longer, but it costs like $3-$6 instead of $30+.
In the burbs without good public transit, yeah you’re basically screwed. Arlington and FW are especially terrible for this.
Rakebleed@reddit (OP)
If you’re rolling with a family that $3-$6 adds up not to mention all the shit you have to bring but yeah $30 seems like a significant hike from years past.
Dick_Lazer@reddit
A lot of parking spots are actually charging more if you pay with cash these days. I saw lots like that around the Arlington stadiums at least.
Rakebleed@reddit (OP)
Depends on who’s working the gate and if they’re feeling “generous”
Unlucky-Watercress30@reddit
True but when you use DART you get a discount code that let's you get $5 off of the fair tickets. So that $3 to $6 will turn into $-2 to $1 extra. Not to bad by any means. Plus the train drops you off literally at the front door of the fair.
MilkmanResidue@reddit
Stop adding details that counter OP complaint on how awful the SFoTX is for price gouging their family.
Rakebleed@reddit (OP)
It’s not about the state fair it’s every event.
Unlucky-Watercress30@reddit
This is valid, but I only really know about why the state fair cost that much: Monday was the Red River Shootout between TX and OU, so parking was PREMIUM that day since literally 100k people were at the fair
Rakebleed@reddit (OP)
It was Saturday my dude and OU still sucks.
Unlucky-Watercress30@reddit
Oh, no idea then lol I thought you posted on Monday. I guess it rings true, Tx State Fair prices keep rising like TX's score against OU.
Rakebleed@reddit (OP)
🤠
Unlucky-Watercress30@reddit
Fuck bro I'm tripping then. Been sick all week and times been acting funky for me so the game literally felt like yesterday. My bad
Particular-Object-44@reddit
Um that's not always an option btw! ... J/s
Rakebleed@reddit (OP)
nope but doesn’t hurt to ask.
Particular-Object-44@reddit
Fair enough!
mrslipple@reddit
I'm up in Allen and I'm a Stars season ticket holder, I take Dart to the games. So convenient.
Rakebleed@reddit (OP)
Yeah AAC is city planning done right. Rare in DFW.
MilkmanResidue@reddit
After you account for the traffic getting in/out and walking/tram to and from your car I think it’s a time saver to use DART.
Day passes are $6 for adults and $3 for kids. A two parent family would have to bring 6 kids to equal the $30 parking fee. Cut that DART fare in half if you are arriving after noon and only need a discounted PM fare.
DART is the way to go to the Fair. Some people are just hesitant to use it because they are unsure. Some just refuse to use it because they feel they are above it. That’s okay, more space for me and my family!
CptCaillou@reddit
Wait... the DART is free??? I think they should inform all the homeless that they need to pay.
Quirky_Object_4100@reddit
Overall it’s not bad I made the mistake of riding it from my house one day. Jumping across lines made the waiting for the trains and the whole experience worse than it needed to be. Just a few stops away is the way to go
GomersOdysey@reddit
We love taking the Dart, my kids are also mesmerized by trains. Managed to pack all we needed in a single backpack and brought a folding wagon. So much less stressful than driving
ssbenss@reddit
I paid $10 to park at some church on MLK Blvd, can't remember the name, but it was 3 blocks away from the entrance, close to a fiesta. Tbh I'd rather park at a church than pay $5-$10 more to park a block closer (fiesta parking was $20, and there were grifters everywhere)
sealclubberfan@reddit
You can always drive to the nearest park and ride and go from there. It's still better than driving all the way to the fair.
jhrogers32@reddit
Shout out r/DART inded
TakeATrainOrBusFFS@reddit
First off: fuck the parking companies.
That said: Parking should reflect the opportunity cost of the land it takes up. A parking lot brings in very scant revenue compared to pretty much anything else that land could be, and that deprives our financially struggling city of much needed sales and/or property tax revenue.
Parking shouldn’t be cheap in an urban area, but the money should definitely not go to some fuckoff company. It should go to the city and be spent on improving transportation infrastructure, including for pedestrians and people on bikes in the area that the parking spaces serve. This is actually a thing called parking benefit districts, and it’s a way of ensuring that (a) there is some parking and (b) the revenue is used to actually help the community instead of lining someone’s pockets.
Objective_Piece_8401@reddit
So, let me get this straight… the city should buy land that admittedly isn’t productive spending our limited resources on something that earns a bad return and then spend that bad return on infrastructure and local improvements so that no one earns a profit.
You’re cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Dick_Lazer@reddit
True, cars should simply not be allowed around the city core.
TakeATrainOrBusFFS@reddit
Generally i think many of our parking lots should be made into something other than parking lots entirely. I’m just describing a model for how to do something better with the revenue from whatever parking remains after that.
Illustrious_Swing645@reddit
/cries looking at all the empty parking lots in deep ellum that only get used on Fridays/Saturdays
TakeATrainOrBusFFS@reddit
One of them should be a grocery store and the others should be 5 by 1 affordable-ish apartments.
Rakebleed@reddit (OP)
We need more public storage /s
Quirky_Object_4100@reddit
This is one of those what came first the chicken or the egg. If they get rid of all that parking downtown would be crippled. There isn’t enough residents in downtown to keep everything lively(because there is so much parking lots). They rely on the suburban people to show up.
ArwingMechanic@reddit
Lol if the parking lots are replaced with apartments you don't need suburbanites. It was always a bad idea to cater to them.
Quirky_Object_4100@reddit
That is true but apartments don’t spring up overnight. They take years. If someone lives in downtown but works in Carrollton and there’s no where to park their car. They’re moving away. It’s not an easy solution
TakeATrainOrBusFFS@reddit
Yeah, increasing density and increasing public transit need to happen in lock step with each other. It can and should be done, though.
Montallas@reddit
The parking lot owners would also prefer to redevelop that land as something more valuable. They don’t turn it into housing (or anything else) because they can’t underwrite rents that would support the cost of the redevelopment you’re suggesting. That shit ain’t free or easy to do.
Most parking lots in downtown are what is known as a “covered land play”. That means an investor has purchased the land and is sitting on it betting that office/resi/retail rent will eventually rise to a point where it is profitable to develop something. While they are waiting they run a parking operation on it to help cover costs like property taxes, debt service, etc.. Would you rather they just let the ground sit fallow?
ArwingMechanic@reddit
I work in Land development and I would need you to point out the lot it can't be done on. In my admittedly younger expertise, I haven't found something yet we can't make work.
Montallas@reddit
The owners of the lots at Elm and Pearl are owning them as covered land plays for years. Start there.
ArwingMechanic@reddit
Ahhhhh. You consider old guys trying to basically ransom those lots back to developers as covered land plays because it can't be done. It is 100% a won't do it because they are greedy. I know for a fact I could put something on either side of Elm at pearl there for what the land IS worth. Now whether those guys can take that offer because they are upside down like a motherfucker on those lots is another story. But don't somehow think, you can't build anything there. That is just wrong. You definitely can develop those lots.
alpaca_obsessor@reddit
I would absolutely not be opposed to policy that encourages land owners to redevelop quicker rather than sitting on valuable land, something similar to LVT, or simply increasing taxes to park within some sort of ‘downtown district.’ I work in development and you have to admit some firms are happy to drag their feet on projects unless motivated to do otherwise.
Montallas@reddit
So your answer to the issue being that it’s too expensive/not worth it to redevelop is to make it EVEN MORE expensive to own the land? Good call. That won’t make them drag their feet any longer. Might get some cheaply built properties though!
alpaca_obsessor@reddit
That’s the entire gist behind a Land Value Tax, which is supported by nearly 100% of economists.
Montallas@reddit
I’m extremely aware of what the LVT is. I also know that it is not supported by nearly 100% of economists. Saying so would mean that nearly 100% of economists are Georgists - which is a ludicrous statement.
I’d agree with you that some percentage of economists support LVT - but it’s certainly closer to 0% than 100%.
plastic_jungle@reddit
Land value tax.
Montallas@reddit
Care to elaborate?
TakeATrainOrBusFFS@reddit
That’s a good point. That’s a bit more in the weeds than I feel prepared to comment on, but something strikes me as off about an incentive structure that encourages developers to buy land and sit on it like that. I have no alternative to propose at this time.
rodiraskol@reddit
Land Value Tax is the answer. At the moment, tax rates on urban property are based on the value of the land + the value of what's built on it, meaning that unimproved land is taxed at a much lower rate.
Under an LVT, only the value of the land is considered. So the taxes for a piece of land are the same regardless of whether it's vacant or has a skyscraper on it. This discourages sitting on unimproved land.
TakeATrainOrBusFFS@reddit
Based.
DaSilence@reddit
Who is doing this redevelopment?
rodiraskol@reddit
Based.
qolace@reddit
"Why should something exist if it doesn't generate billions for a handful of schmucks?"
Objective_Piece_8401@reddit
You’re completely wrong and intentionally misstating my point trying to get me to react. I refuse. Be gone troll.
jhrogers32@reddit
This guy r/DART 's and r/Amtrak 's and probably r/DFWbike 's like a true hero
Montallas@reddit
That parking benefit district article you linked is about monetizing on-street parking. Not stealing from private companies/individuals who allow people to park on their land in exchange for money - as you have suggested.
Rakebleed@reddit (OP)
username checks out
Dick_Lazer@reddit
It's a sort of * tax, a tax on those who aren't thinking or planning ahead. If you're driving all the way to the fair & trying to park there, you're gonna have a bad time regardless.
SeinfeldSavant@reddit
Price gouging is a myth. It's basic supply and demand.
12_yo_d@reddit
It’s so ridiculous.. It is making me reconsider going to things because of it. Pure and utter greed.
RepulsiveInterview44@reddit
We are HUGE fairgoers - we go at least twice every year. We decided to skip this year because we just can’t afford the hundreds of dollars it takes for a family of 5 (with discounts where available!)
TannerTheCreator@reddit
My family has gone every single year (minus covid) for the last 31 years. But we gave it up this year, the group decided it just wasn’t worth it anymore
charles_manbun@reddit
This was our family this year too. Sucks to miss the tradition but it really isn't worth the $300-$400 it takes to do it the way we like to.
Rakebleed@reddit (OP)
That sucks especially considering the part of town Fair Park is in and the community it most impacts.
Rakebleed@reddit (OP)
Arlington specifically is a very dark kind of evil.
blackbird90@reddit
I'm so worried for the World Cup.
alpaca_obsessor@reddit
I get that they have their own reasons for not paying into DART but the metro is absolutely worse off for it.
MsMo999@reddit
Parking prices have gotten absolutely ridiculous post covid. American greed? Probably!
plastic_jungle@reddit
What about capitalism and market forces? Free parking is entitlements for drivers.
MsMo999@reddit
Forget free just don’t financially screw me with a ridiculous skyrocketing fee.
plastic_jungle@reddit
Why should they charge less than what people will pay? If it’s too expensive, park and ride the train or bus or a bike. That’s what I do, I never pay to park anywhere downtown. And that is partly the desired effect.
magicj3@reddit
That's why I quit going down there years ago....among other reasons
Danzanza@reddit
Yeah I was shocked all state fair parking was at least 30$! Last time I went it was only 10!! And we parked in a good close lot. This time it was on the grass and block away. It’s like all the vendors decided to do minimum 30 and they know they’ll get the payment because people have to park there. It’s crazy. I Guess just another sign of the shitty economy
JRLDH@reddit
It’s a sign of an economy where a lot of people have enough disposable income if parking can cost $30 for an event that is not essential to one’s life and people still decide to pay.
This means that people have money, not that they don’t. So this economy produces wealth. Why do people like you think that this is a sign of a shitty economy?! It may be shitty for you personally but overall it means that the public has a ton of disposable income which is only possible if the economy is working very well.
Rakebleed@reddit (OP)
This economy is pricing people out of things that used to be for everybody.
JRLDH@reddit
Yeah, it’s not good for everyone but in a market based system like ours, it’s a sign of a healthy economy if hundreds of thousands can easily pay $30 for parking, which is a convenience, for an activity that is totally not essential.
It’s false painting this as a “shitty economy”.
Shitty economy means that “the people” (not you) can’t afford it because they struggle to get by. That’s obviously not the case if a state fair, which caters to the average and not the wealthy, can charge so much money without losing business.
Rakebleed@reddit (OP)
Increasingly not the case as evident by many other comments in this post.
houdinishandkerchief@reddit
That’s anecdotal at best, I could counter your argument by saying we went for the first time ever this year.
Rakebleed@reddit (OP)
I see you mr moneybags.
houdinishandkerchief@reddit
No I just took the dart 😜
Rakebleed@reddit (OP)
making frugal money moves 🤑
houdinishandkerchief@reddit
You already know! Ballin on a budget 😎
CommodoreVF2@reddit
No, another sign of gouging. I parked for free by a nearby hospital, rode the train one stop (didn't get checked for a ticket, so free). Free Dart ride back to the station too, since we were packed in like sardines, and there was no way to check tickets.
Rakebleed@reddit (OP)
Well I’m not co-signing or suggesting to scam DART. That will make the situation only worse.
CommodoreVF2@reddit
I didn't scam them. Bought a ticket with Go Pass app but left it inactive. If a Dart cop comes to check for a ticket, just activate it. Not my fault if they aren't enforcing their rules. :)
utookthegoodnames@reddit
You just described a scam.
CommodoreVF2@reddit
How so? Dart has my money, I have a ticket I can use at some future point, and I didn't pay $30 bucks to park. That's the real scam.
utookthegoodnames@reddit
You received a good or service that you did not directly pay for. If it were your business and I did the same thing you would intuitively understand that I scammed you.
TakeATrainOrBusFFS@reddit
Or a sign that land is a precious commodity in an urban area.
People don’t have to park there. They could take DART. If someone prefers to bring their car into a congested area and park it when public transit is an option, they should be able to do that and pay accordingly.
Rakebleed@reddit (OP)
It’s the same at any event in Arlington with empty parking lots (that are conveniently and strategically inaccessible) as far as the eye can see. It’s artificial scarcity. Plus the issue of congestion at the fair is the horrendous traffic control and everyone queuing to pay. There was plenty of actual parking.
alpaca_obsessor@reddit
Just use DART ffs
Rakebleed@reddit (OP)
In Arlington? Good luck.
alpaca_obsessor@reddit
This entire thread discovering the demand/supply curve: 😡😡😡😡
Rakebleed@reddit (OP)
I’m talking about official parking at the gate. But yeah everything around it goes up in response.
dmmee@reddit
The Texas State Fair has a huge budget deficit and may need a bailout from the city of Dallas. Instead of actually finding ways to balance the budget, they continue to charge more for everything.
It used to be an event where people in the lower income levels could afford to take their families for a fun time together. Not so much anymore.
https://www.fox4news.com/news/oak-view-group-fair-park-audit-dallas-city-council-meeting
DFWdawg@reddit
I can assure you the Fair doesn’t have a deficit…it makes more in 24 days than Six Flags makes in a year…it’s a non-profit organization with only about 50 full time employees…
JustMeInBigD@reddit
The State Fair of Texas organization is a non-profit and provides funds to local charities. The financial issues you're referring to are about Fair Park, its management company (OVG, formerly Spectra), and the charitable org (Fair Park First) that works with the management company. None of that has anything to do with prices at the state fair.
The State Fair of Texas has no financial issues or concerns. They do try to maximize their potential donations, and raise prices on some things (parking, ticket prices) when their costs (security, new infrastructure) rise. The vendors at the fair all set their own prices and can do so for whatever reasons they choose.
HiFiMarine@reddit
Welcome to inflation. Even with the ridiculous prices that are being charged that are still losing money. Think about this when you're at the ballot box in November.
LostPilot517@reddit
The city of Dallas is jacking up prices everywhere. Love Field just saw more or less ~$8 increases in all the garages. A 180% increase in some cases.
TeslaModelS3XY@reddit
Throw it on the pile. At the end of the day, the only reason companies can get away with jacking prices on everything under the guise of inflation is simple, people will pay it.
McDonald’s & subway are finally having to deal with their greed by lowering prices because people stopped going. But I’d say the vast majority of stuff that is way more expensive (everything) since Covid is going to stay more expensive unless people stop paying those prices.
JerryTexas52@reddit
We live in Tyler but good to Dallas now and then. Anytime we need yo ho downtown, we park at Mockingbird Station and ride the light rail. I refuse to pay for exorbitant parking prices and hate yo hunt for a space. It is much easier to use the rail.
That_Platypus9735@reddit
$37 for Toyota music factory. I'm not going back
Skinnieguy@reddit
Parked at the Toyota music factory last night, it’s like almost $35. Spent at least 20 minutes trying to leave the parking lot. Next time, I’ll park for free 10 minutes away and walk.
RepulsiveInterview44@reddit
Man. We went there to see Incubus and paid $80 for valet!!! We had never been and were tired of looking for parking and just said fuck it.
Skinnieguy@reddit
It was my first time out there. I know better next time.
barmskley@reddit
I parked there a couple weeks ago and paid $35 too. I didn’t know about the free parking 10 minutes away—where is that?
mllllllln@reddit
Where do you park for free a 10 min walk away from there?
I remember a few years ago I could park in the Irving Convention Center garage down the street and it was ~$10. Now I go and it's $30, it sucks.
Skinnieguy@reddit
We had dinner at Pacific Table before the show. It was free, at least in the parking lot area behind it. (Unless there are some signs I missed) Apple Maps said it was only like a 10 minute walk from the restaurant.
When I saw the $31 park + tax, almost drove back. I should have after being stuck in the garage. Note if you do park there, park by the exit.
Party_Head9521@reddit
Park across the street for $10
Loud_Internet572@reddit
It's because they know they can - you proved it yourself ;)
Temporary_Treacle229@reddit
Where have you been? Everything is way over priced and way more expensive than it used to be. You’re just realizing this? It’s been like this for years now…
strangecargo@reddit
State fair was transparent that they were raising the parking price from $20 to $30 to pay for extra security.
MatronOf-Twilight-55@reddit
Insurance rates went up so the price of that is passing on down
Normal-Amphibian4822@reddit
I was just complaining about this. Toyota tried charging $37 on Friday night for a show, parked at the convention center and it was still $25 which was crazy, went to dickies tonight $35 to park and there’s no other parking around so you basically have no choice. Parking at south side is $20 and you but you can park alongside the fence for free. Concert tickets have gotten expensive enough now parking on top of it is a huge fee it’s crazy
jgorbeytattoos@reddit
I work across the street from the front gate of the fair.
The lots charge something different every day. Usually with as much as a $20-$25 swing depending on how busy the fair is. Could be fair day for the disd kids driving the price up on a Monday. Tuesdays and Thursdays are discount days so the parking seems to go ip
gr0uchyMofo@reddit
I parked on the street about 3 blocks away and walked. Furthest parking lot from the fairgrounds we saw, under I-30 was $20. Usually we DART it, but we were up against another event we had to go to.
cuberandgamer@reddit
It's a supply and demand equation. If they made parking cheaper at these events it would be impossible to find a spot.
Simply because of the price tag, people find other means to get there or try to share a ride.
If people are willing to pay for the privilege, they will charge for it
Careless-Resource-72@reddit
Vote with your feet and don’t go there again. No one’s holding a gun to your head saying you have to go. Do you expect the “guberment” to subsidize state fair parking with taxpayer dollars? Is this California?
Skinny_Phoenix@reddit
OP never said or even hinted at that. You just made it up so you could yell about something.
gtsturgeon@reddit
Texas Trust CU Theater 😤