The Threat of a Solar Superstorm Is Growing—And We’re Not Ready
Posted by Beneficial_Table_352@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 186 comments
G'day all I'm a subscriber to the poly crisis collapse theory, i.e. climate change, resource depletion, globalised economy failure, world war, etc. My question that I'm throwing out into the community is: are we factoring in massive solar flares and coronal mass ejections particularly in reference to late 2024/early 2025 predictions? I am by no means knowledgeable on these matters, and moreso a curious observer.
I know it's probably a very unlikely possibility, but I'm honestly crossing my fingers for a global disaster like this that will fry electronics and perhaps completely upend our digital world. I know it will cause the deaths of millions (those dependent on medical technology for life support etc), but considering the threat of A.I. and nuclear warfare, it may be the lesser of these evils. Interested in everyone's thoughts on the matter. Again it may be a naive reading of these articles and documents, but I'd love to discuss. Cheers my friends! 🤙
GothMaams@reddit
u/ArmChairAnalyst86 you’re being paged to help with this one. Lol
ArmChairAnalyst86@reddit
I am sorry I am seeing this so late. I see the topic was closed.
The risk of a CE type event is always a low probability, right up until its not. The magnetic field does continue to weaken and we are seeing some changes in auroral behavior heralding this shift. We are not ready for it. I see the comment below and in no way shape or form should we compare the CE with the May or this most recent storm. Not all G5 are created equal. We do not have hard data on the geomagnetic distrurbance, CME composition, or even flare magnitude of the CE but we have educated guesses. The fact it shows up in the dendro records suggest it was significantly more powerful than anything else on record since, despite a few close contenders.
This solar maximum is not winding down by any means. We may have reached SSN and SFI maximum or are in the process of doing so but historically, the big stuff comes after max. Solar max does not consider geomagnetic storm activity or flare magnitudes, only the metrics mentioned above concerning sunspots and radio flux. If we examine SC23, we can see that the biggest storms occurred after the official Max and that has typically been the case in the past. As a result, we can safely say that we are under a heightened risk period relative to normal for the next few years and then will progress into minimum, at which point the risk will subside, but not disappear.
We do not know if we are ready or not. All we have is theoretical models, some EMP tests from the 50s and 60s, and some data gleaned from *extreme* G5 storms and the way it has affected our infrastructure in the past. We also have to consider that not every place would be affected equally and in a CE type scenario, we are talking about a near global event. While the occurrences in other parts of the world may not have a direct effect on us, there is no doubt it will be catastrophic for unhardened grids or inferior built infrastructure. We also have to consider that the magnetic field trends really materialized in earnest immediately following the CE and we know that in these instances, the earth itself takes the charge as well in addition to heavy solar energetic particles. All of this combines for some uncertainty as to what the effects would be. We also cannot assume that a hypothetical CE caliber event would not be stronger. So many variables to consider.
Bottom line, we have to take it as it comes. My conclusion is that we do not know if we are ready. We have never experienced such a thing with a LEO full of satellites and airplanes or a totally electrified society, or an earth teetering on the brink of total chaos both naturally and society wise, or with a magnetic field that has without a doubt lost some of its protective ability since 1859.
GothMaams@reddit
Thank you for your response!!!
thr0wnb0ne@reddit
i'll step in in his stead. the two of us recently had quite a lively debate as to the forecast of this past recent solar storm. he was pointing out the potential for a g5 level storm and i thought that was a little alarmist. i had been watching that sunspot since it became visible and didnt see a potential for it to be anywhere near as bad as the mother's day storm which was the first g5 level solar storm in 20 years. it ended up being close but i ended up being right.
this has allowed me to gain some major insights from these last two storms. mainly, since the carrington event the grid seems to have been hardened better than a lot of the doomers previously thought. there were some minor localized power outages and transformer explosions attributable to these last two storms but overall there dont seem to have been any major hiccups. at least, thats what a civilian, even a well informed civilian, would think. there are still ''national security'' reasons they might not be able to tell us the full extent of the damage. that they are so mum on aurora reaching so far south, meaning the earths magnetic field is quite weak, is a lil sus.
the sun is still currently fairly active, no major earth directed sunspots at them moment but we are still right at the peak of solar cycle 25. i'd wager we're just starting the waning of the cycle but that is my personal speculation. these sunspots may roll back into view in a couple weeks. we're not quite out of the woods yet as far as solar activity goes, the largest flare/cme of cycle 24 happened in 2017 well into the waning near minimum of the cycle. so the situation is being monitored, lots of amazing data to pour over while the sun gives us a lull
harbourhunter@reddit
ugh i thought he was the OP that posted this drivel
Absolute-Nobody0079@reddit
Ahahahahaha you know him too?!
evermorecoffee@reddit
Lots of r/solarmax folks in the collapse subs 😉
Absolute-Nobody0079@reddit
feeling so guilty
Globalboy70@reddit
If we lost the grid, payment systems, internet, communications, banking, transportation etc we would be two to three days from riots, looting. Cities only contain three days worth of food,medicine. Even communications from government would go dark.
The only way to maintain order would be to deploy troops in the streets of major cities and declare martial law. And it would have to be done the first day, along with food distribution centers, communications centers. And then what how do you get everything going again? 95 % of the population would not be able to help. The 5% that would be needed would be hindered by the rest. Electricians, power plant, network engineers would be priority assets to get the grid and communications back up. But does a plan to coordinate these people exist at every municipal level?
In Canada our furnaces would stop if the grid was gone, we are headed into winter. Things would devolve even faster in winter.
Upbeat_Respect_3621@reddit
Look at what is happening in Western North Carolina. Local militia is “hunting” FEMA, and FEMA is leaving some areas — at least, temporarily because of this. Yes, only a small undercurrent. So far.
On the upside, it might slow down the spread of disinformation? Conversely, it might just foment more chaos. (But perhaps disrupt some of the ongoing coordinated genocides in Palestine and elsewhere?)
Asheville will already be without water for months more.
But now multiply that by the entire world?
Queendevildog@reddit
This is bullshit. One asshat making threats at a gas station.
YoSoyZarkMuckerberg@reddit
Do you have a source I can look at?
wholeasshog@reddit
The American brain rot machine is strong!
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/EudMernfMa1kaN3N/?mibextid=WC7FNe
YoSoyZarkMuckerberg@reddit
Not American and don't use Facebook. What is the link?
wholeasshog@reddit
The local police department's press release about the man making threats to FEMA workers being arrested
leoseta@reddit
Thats just american brain rot. I douth that they will be attacking aid gropes in most places without being ordered so by orange man and his hitlerites
atreides_hyperion@reddit
Doubt*
LevelBad0@reddit
100% and because most people are only capable of thinking as far as ‘yeah but that’s just for a few days until the internet comes back…’ it would be the classic case of people hoarding whatever they can for 48-72 hours waiting for a miracle and by the 4th day when people start realizing they are really totally on their own, oh man I don’t want to think about it but I’m sure the look in their eyes would say it all. No one talks about the dreaded solar flare to end all solar flares on this sub for good reason, it’s the worst and fastest ending collapse scenario possible.
PlanetaryPeak@reddit
But look at Gaza. Almost no food or water and 70% of buildings gone. The people are not fighting each other or eating children.
Ramuh321@reddit
The difference here would be communication and understanding of what was going on.
The people in Gaza have an idea what is happening to them. Now imagine if suddenly the entire world stops working and there is no communication from anyone, anywhere. Having no idea wtf is going on would be an incredibly different variable.
Imagine Gaza, except the entire country woke up to the devastation in one day and couldn’t receive any communication as to what had happened. They may respond differently.
Right now they are bonding together in a time of known crisis. This type of event would be preceded by perhaps 24 hours of warning, and most people would likely never know it was coming.
Icy_Geologist2959@reddit
This.
I read a lot of comments about how chaos will descend and people will turn on one another, but curiously little reference to where such ideas come from. Perhaps I have simply not paid enough attention...
I am quite curious as to what ACTUALLY happens in times of acute crisis. What studies have been conducted and the conclusions they draw. To what extent does this Hobbsian notion of an individualistic fight for survival in the absence of state power prove to be true. Understanding this, seems to me, rather an important piece of the puzzle for preparation and so resilience.
Loud_Internet572@reddit
Have you not seen the videos of people damned near killing each other over toilet paper during COVID? Seen people willing to trample over each other for Black Friday sales? Now imagine those same people knowing the world is effectively over and it's everyone for themselves. I'm not saying every single person would resort to this mind you, but I have to imagine it would be enough to make things difficult and/or heated - could be wrong.
Hairy-Chipmunk7921@reddit
Terrorists don't need internet to live in their caves in stone age, they wouldn't even notice the rest of the world got on their level
YoSoyZarkMuckerberg@reddit
You should be banned for this.
TheArcticFox444@reddit
Why wait for nature when humans could end our high-tech civilization:
This Is How They Tell Me The World Ends: The Cyber-Weapons Arms Race by Nicole Perlroth, 2021.
(New York Times best seller and Winner of Business Book of the Year 2021)
Lights Out by Ted Koppel (2015)
(I've already passed these titles to OP but as long as they're still in copy mode...)
We had a near miss with a massive solar flare in 2012.
Background-Head-5541@reddit
You literally just described what happens after a hurricane. Just without the riots.
theCaitiff@reddit
Because people in disasters have this really bizarre tendency to help each other out instead of immediately stabbing the person nearest them to take their can of beans.
Globalboy70@reddit
Not everybody would be looting or rioting just enough to make it dangerous for others and may cause a snowball effect. You would definitely have people band together for a week or two until they see the food is not coming, vehicles with any electronics are still not working(anybody got pre 1980 carburetor vehicles, with no electronics) , cell phones still don't work, and I don't know where my next meal is coming from. That is when things will get real for most people.
zaknafien1900@reddit
Yup only so many wood burning stoves left mostly at lake lots and cabins and I imagine most people would guard the shit out of it
theCaitiff@reddit
And yet look to the south, right now. People in Florida helping each other, sharing supplies, using their chainsaw and precious fuel to help their neighbors clear downed trees off their property. People in Georgia, North Carolina, Tennessee and Kentucky are helping each other clean up after the floods. People across the country are collecting money or supplies to send to those worse off.
We talk a lot about hypothetical "shit hit the fan" scenarios, but every time it DOES happen in reality instead of thought experiments, people help each other. I'm too cynical to believe everyone is an altruist or that things will somehow always work out, I'm still an /r/collapse subscriber after all, but humans help each other in times of need. It's pretty consistent throughout our history.
There ARE only so many wood burning stoves, but there's a lot of scrap metal around in salvage yards, and a lot of people that know how to bend it, shape it, rivet it together, and make another crude rocket stove. And the more people you pack into that cabin, the less wood you need to burn to keep it warm.
Beneficial_Table_352@reddit (OP)
Winter would be devastating. As would other extreme weather systems. I suppose it's all pretty f#@ked in these scenarios... Thanks for your input
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nebulacoffeez@reddit
Thank you for this!
nebulacoffeez@reddit
So that's eugenics lmao
Useless_Greg@reddit
How the fuck is a natural disaster eugenics
nebulacoffeez@reddit
It's not. OP crossing their fingers for millions of people die, and specifically that the elderly & chronically ill are acceptable casualties, is literally eugenics lol.
derekvandreat@reddit
Theres a great, albeit horrifying, novel called "one second after" by william r forchtsen that i thought was really eye opening about the threat of electromagnetic interference on a wide scale. Its .. heart breaking, fascinating, and made me really accept that when shit hits the fan, i must have an exit strategy. A chronic illness like the one i have is an absolute death sentence.
Revere6@reddit
Is there an online forum anyone knows of where it’s safe to hold honest discussions about this? I have been waking up every day at 4am filled with existential anxiety about being caught unprepared. I don’t want to suffer or for my pets to suffer. Having a plan in place would help me feel more prepared and comforted (in a sense), knowing I could dip out as painlessly as possible when the writing was on the wall.
CanoodleCandy@reddit
I think the best thing you can do is shift your mindset and be prepared to do thing you wouldn't even think of now.
"Preparing" is not as good as you think just because you either need to prepare to the point of protecting your preparations (like having a safe fortress to store all your food,etc) or you need to prepare with only the basics and be prepared to take it from others.
Anyone stocking up but lacking protection is just stockpiling for the strongest person.
Get weapons and know how to use them. For most of us that will likely be our best option, unfortunately.
escapefromburlington@reddit
No, bc we are consumer slaves. Cant be damaging the merchandise
Debas3r11@reddit
That's a bummer but I'm impressed by you being so honest about it. Just remember people care about you and if you do have a plan try to do one that will cause the least trauma to those people.
Like maybe shoot yourself in the heart and not the head. You could even have a ballistic plate behind you to not damage resources that could help those you're leaving behind.
collapse-ModTeam@reddit
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Debas3r11@reddit
Yeah that's fair
TruganSmith@reddit
If you have diabetes you were already living on borrowed time. Everything happens the way it should.
derekvandreat@reddit
I have crohns disease. It would be a long slow decline due to malnutrition or complications from the inflammation. No thanks. Not to mention i also have an ileostomy. A big open "wound" like that is just begging for trouble when infrastructure collapses.
m01L@reddit
Second this recommendation! I found it horrifying in its matter of factness too. At one point the town doctor is talking to the protagonist and stating the timeline of when the chronically ill/med dependent/ electricity dependent neighbors will die. They try to keep insulin viable for as long as possible by keeping it in the cool water in the back of the toilet but the daughter with diabetes dies. The family is attacked by marauders and the dog dies defending the family. The family then eats the dog out of necessity. And no one knows what’s going on outside of their own town because communication is nonexistent
Beneficial_Table_352@reddit (OP)
Gosh so sorry to hear. I also have health concerns that are dependent on modern medicine so it's a horrible thought of course. I think about these things every day. I hope I didn't cause you any offense
derekvandreat@reddit
Nope. Just the reality of things.
DancesWithBeowulf@reddit
Beneficial_Table_352@reddit (OP)
Yeah was a bit savage hey haha. Interesting thought experiment/hypothetical though
TheBurrfoot@reddit
Must be nice for that to only be a thought experiment.
Beneficial_Table_352@reddit (OP)
Yeah apologies to all for the insensitive language I'm on the spectrum so I never think of these things until it's too late. Foot in mouth disease. 😅
TheBurrfoot@reddit
So am I, don't use your disability as an excuse for being an asshole. Do better.
SquirrelAkl@reddit
OP’s experience may be entirely different to your own. The word spectrum should be a clue.
TheBurrfoot@reddit
I'm 100% sure it is. The fact that we're different people would be my first clue.
I just don't buy the excuse of autism as a reason for a lack of empathy. Most people I know are autistic, they all have the capacity for empathy. I see a lot of us use Autism as an excuse to not do the very real and hard work to learn it is all.
editjs@reddit
It doesn't seem (in my opinion) that you've learned that skill so how is that you know its worth it?
As another autistic person I will definitely need some sort of data-set or graph where I can cross-reference your opinion about OP's opinion with my opinion about your opinion of OP's opinion so that we can make sure that its the autism and not someone being an asshole that is the cause of all these opinions...
TheBurrfoot@reddit
I don't care about the opinion... i care about people; real people, dehumanized into a thought experiment.
YoSoyZarkMuckerberg@reddit
How were they being an asshole?
InfinitelyThirsting@reddit
In a public forum, one should not speak about disabled people as if they're just some interesting hypothetical. Even in private, one shouldn't be laughing about the deaths of millions of other people as "a bit savage hey haha" while making it clear you don't think about them as real people, but especially in public, where those people can read everything you write about them.
editjs@reddit
they absolutely were not. well spotted.
Beneficial_Table_352@reddit (OP)
👍
editjs@reddit
I love that you are not afraid to call it like you see it.
headfirst21@reddit
As someone who recently got a pacemaker that's supposed to be monitored/ plugged in.... let er rip!
Beneficial_Table_352@reddit (OP)
Holey moley! Fingers crossed it doesn't happen but hoping that there'll be emergency back up power for everyone in need
Malcolm_Morin@reddit
That... That's not how a pacemaker works.
hitemplo@reddit
Ah yes the famed pacemaker backup generator
shryke12@reddit
And only for pace makers now! We surely wouldn't use it for stupid shit!
c_e_r_u_l_e_a_n@reddit
As long as we stick together, we'll be alright. For as long as that may be. Such is life. We'll figure it out I suppose. One way or the other. After that? Fuck it . Guess we'll see where we land.
editjs@reddit
Neurotypical people are not like you and me my friend, never apologise for voicing your truth - and thats all it was, an opinion. So sorry that this is being done to you. Your viewpoint is valid and should be heard.
dumnezero@reddit
The Sun doesn't really fall under our social dynamics and related ethics. Now if you were some kind of Sun worshiper who believed that the Sun was a humanoid god with thoughts and feelings, sure.
The current bigger problem, with climate heating and man made GHGs as a side-effect of the capitalist hierarchical society running an economic game in favor of a tiny elite with the support of a smaller "elite-ish" aspiring segment of the population, is much better suited for that meme.
We could talk, at best, about shelters and resilient infrastructure.
Safewordharder@reddit
Destroying the world economy is a best-case collapse scenario, but it will cost damn near everything and throw most of the world into the dark ages.
Still beats the mass famine and subsequent total wipeout following a complete biosphere collapse, but at least life will go on. Sort of.
Ok-Dust-4156@reddit
Destroying world economy will lead to mass famine.
Safewordharder@reddit
Of course it would. It just wouldn't be total.
Deskman77@reddit
Yeah, it’s way better now than in 50 years.
Maybe, could be fun to imagine rich traped in their silo when the solar storm hit.
Cancel_Still@reddit
This really isn't something to worry about. I fell for all this and related topics a few years ago and decided to pursue a PhD in the field thinking I would be helping to save the world from cataclysm like in the movies. Now I'm almost done and the work is fun/interesting, but we've gotten really good at responding to these events in ways that minimize infrastructure damage or interruptions to gps etc. We had two super storms already this year and... nothing happened. We know how to handle them. Maybe a really big storm ( a super Carrington event) could knock out the grid somewhere for a little while, but it wouldn't be anything beyond what we get from a big hurricane like Helene or Sandy in the US.
joaoricrd2@reddit
Oh my sweet summer child .....
Cancel_Still@reddit
I bet you 1 billion dollars that a solar storm will not cause the apocalypse
uski@reddit
What about the satellites?
Cancel_Still@reddit
Yeah that's a bit different, but satellites are really only vulnerable while they're in the lower atmosphere, so once they've moved to their final orbits they're pretty much safe. There is some shielding they can build and I know they can like change their orientation to minimize damage, but it's really only an issue for the satellites there were just launched and are migrating up to their final positions.
chaotics_one@reddit
In what way have we "we've gotten really good at responding to these events"?
The ones this year were all small and we've never had a direct hit with anything close to the estimated power of the Carrington. To my knowledge, we have no plans to proactively protect the grid in the event of something that size that would likely hit us in <17 hours after detection.
Cancel_Still@reddit
We do have plans and capabilities, you have to do more googling to update your knowledge. A lot of times it's a matter of just shutting off the grid etc. and it's not like you only have 17 hours to come up with something, we spend years preparing and then when the time comes we have 17 hours or whatever to activate safeguards or whatever. In 1989 a big solar storm knocked out a bunch of power in Canada, now they can't do that anymore because we've modified the grid. Bigger storms have hit with no effect. https://www.wapa.gov/protecting-the-grid-from-solar-storms/ that's one article, there's plenty more online
tvTeeth@reddit
Whoa, a seventeen hour window? That's crazy
shryke12@reddit
Neither storm this year was even remotely close to a Carrington event storm....
willCodeForNoFood@reddit
That's unfortunate. Found the comment you are referring to and OP is claiming that a tiny drinking cup is their pee bottle on space station.
Cancel_Still@reddit
Oh yeah that was a joke obviously lol
Cancel_Still@reddit
I don't claim to be an astronaut. But that would be cool. And I didn't say I lived in China 50 years ago, I was in China last year for a collaboration (in space physics lol)
Braelind@reddit
I am skeptical you have a phd in the field. We've never had anything close to a Carrknton level event. How is all our technology protected from an X-1 class CME? To my knowledge, it's as protected as it was in 1859.
Cancel_Still@reddit
I don't have a PhD, I'm in 5th year so if all goes well I'll have it soon. Your knowledge is out of date then, just do some googling. In 1989 a solar storm knocked out power in Canada, nowadays even bigger storms don't do because of how we've modified the grid. Here's one example. https://www.wapa.gov/protecting-the-grid-from-solar-storms/
Hairy-Chipmunk7921@reddit
How dare you spread sanity and facts about a convenient nothing burger disaster which will never happen? /s
Beneficial_Table_352@reddit (OP)
Oh really?! Wow thank you that has answered some questions. Much appreciated 👍
cruznr@reddit
Are you prepared to be one of those casualties?
editjs@reddit
Having an opinion or a stated preference isn't wrong - even if that opinion is different from your own.
Tone-policing clearly stated personal preference is one of the neurotypical reasons we are in this mess
(in my opinion that is...)
cruznr@reddit
This is a fair point, and to OP’s credit their statement implies that this would preferable in the long run. However, I do think we’re past the point of any options being preferable - our lives are so integrated with technology now that even a small interruption can cause major issues.
Let’s say cell service is completely taken out in such an event - how many things do we rely on our phones for now? I even had to google how to operate some settings on my ham radio a few days ago because the manual wasn’t descriptive enough! Global communications disruptions, transit, infrastructure, everything would be affected. This would be a complete disaster - better in the long run for the earth, but my assumption would be a similar level of suffering for humanity albeit on a shorter timescale.
BigAffectionate4288@reddit
When the "opinion" includes the "personal preference" of certain people dying, then tone policy is absolutely necessary and they should be called out for it, don't use not being neurotypical as an excuse.
Midnight-Nuke@reddit
If he knew how digitally integrated global supply chains are, he might change his tune. It is next to impossible to go back to paper ledgers now.
willCodeForNoFood@reddit
OP said millions will die as a result, I'm inclined to believe that they seriously underestimate the consequences.
Midnight-Nuke@reddit
100's of millions, to billions and there is every chance that you, myself and the neighbours cat will be included, as much as we don't want that. Primary Producers won't give their product away for free if they can't track where it's going and how they're going to get paid. Very bad news for any country relying on food imports, which is the majority of them.
ImportantMode7542@reddit
I’m a realist, I’m diabetic and I will not last long without insulin and refrigeration.
edwigenightcups@reddit
I’ve seen where this movie goes and if I’m not one of the first to die, I won’t be far behind
aznoone@reddit
Think there are short stories also.
Awkwardlyhugged@reddit
Cannot tell if I have passive suicidal ideation, or the reasonable expectation that I’m going to be the first to die in the water wars…
drcrunknasty@reddit
You can do two things.
poorly_timed_leg0las@reddit
Dig a hole for water or dig a hole for yourself 🤷♂️
Awkwardlyhugged@reddit
Yay me!
Useless_Greg@reddit
I can't die
shlerm@reddit
Yes, it would be sensible to prepare for that outcome in some way
Dramatic_Security9@reddit
@op What massive Carrington-like event is predicted? I know solar cycle is expected to remain active through beginning of 2026, but am unaware of anything other than that.
Logical-Race8871@reddit
It's not predictable, just a certainty at some point in the future. Not really important to care about because there isn't anything to do about it at this epoch even if we wanted to.
Dramatic_Security9@reddit
Thanks for confirming,...not high up on my concerns list then.
Beneficial_Table_352@reddit (OP)
That I'm not certain about but I read a few articles and it got me thinking... Was wondering if anyone else had information
sum1sum1sum1sum1@reddit
I recommend looking into the history of cyclic cataclysms. There was a previously classified book from the CIA called "The Adam and Eve Story," which goes into detail about these cyclic cataclysms, and one could be coming soon.
Repeated blasts by large solar flares are actively weakening the earth's electromagnetic field. Some believe that after it hits a certain point, it could collapse entirely, leading to a pole shift.
The new upcoming netflix series "The Eternaut" is all about this stuff. As well as the upcoming movie "AfterBurn" with Samuel L Jackson.
I have a lot of information regarding these cyclic cataclysms if anyone wants to know more.
ExoticMeatDealer@reddit
So, did anyone take a long enough break from bombing on OP to read the article? Because the article could use some bombing—it doesn’t say anything new; just old information with no reference to any specific thing scientists are concerned about. Just general paranoia. I got plenty of that; let me get details.
GingerTea69@reddit
I understand the compared to a lot of end of world scenarios yours seems the most "benevolent", for lack of a better word to describe your intentions. As though getting rid of the threat of nuclear warfare as well as the threat that artificial intelligence poses would be felling two birds with one stone so to speak. But in my humble opinion that would be trading the possible threat of nuclear annihilation with the absolute certainty of millions of deaths that would follow with the total annihilation of the world's electrical grids. In other words, no big red button has been pressed yet. But right now there are millions of people on dialysis or who use AI assistive technologies for communication and to facilitate their sight and hearing in ways that allow them to live more independently than ever.
I feel as though it would help you streamline your thoughts a little more to keep your focus on what have already been demonstrated to be threats during prior catastrophes such as hurricane Katrina or crises overseas. To research those previous disasters to gain perspective on what could face us in the future. Food and water. Looting and raiding. Vigilantes who get it in their heads to go after those raiders. The collapse of local government. Risk from diseases and more due to lack of sanitation. Having to handle things like child care or sanitation or education long-term without the aid of any government or anyone in charge. These are the solid and concrete things that follow after disaster. These are more solid things to focus your hypotheticals on. These are the things most likely to follow after the complete wiping out of all of our shit due to a solar flare catastrophe.
Good luck. I know the comments are already eating you alive, so I extend a branch of understanding just from one non-neurotypical person to another.
nospecialsnowflake@reddit
Planes would crash
No_ConMKUltrapenis@reddit
Well...
Ok-Dust-4156@reddit
If I remember correctly last year there were a lot of solar storm, powerful enough to create northen lights in latitudes where it never happen. And nobody noticed anything.
derpman86@reddit
*me who needs a Cpap machine
joaoricrd2@reddit
I have a pen and an apple. I can fix it
dumnezero@reddit
M.A.S.H. intro song plays
Beneficial_Table_352@reddit (OP)
Ahh damn sorry mate. There will be other options of powering things like solar I hope, but it's more the evils of corporate A.I. developments and nuclear war that stress me haha
TheArcticFox444@reddit
but it's more the evils of corporate A.I. developments and nuclear war that stress me haha
Human nature stresses me. We are are an inherently irrational species. Because of that fact, I've switched my allegiance from humanity to biodiversity. Since it is human activity thst is the greatest threat to biodiversity, the sooner our high-tech civilization collapses, the better off the survivors will be. (And by "survivors" I mean ecosystems.)
VeryPerry1120@reddit
Crossing your fingers for the death of millions is kind of fucked up.
No-Equal-2690@reddit
This sub has fallen and gotten weak. Unwilling to look at the harsh realities of it.
Yes. People will die indiscriminately. It will be horrific. I’m all for the least horrific pathway. Massive solar flares? Maybe that’s better than nukes and a.i! Yes my family and I may die too.
And? Why OP get downvotes.
kiseidou@reddit
I'm convinced that every government will be more than happy to "fix" the effects of global warming by comitting mass genocide.
That includes the casualties by inaction.
The only reason not to do it is because it affects profits.
¡Let's see how far we can go before having to deal with the consecuences!
dumnezero@reddit
Not just governments. Consider your local fascist militia looking to practice some eugenics in that way.
Collapse_is_underway@reddit
It's not if you take into account that we're every day making the world more toxic than yesterday. Collapsing as fast as possible will inconvenience all of us for comfort, but it will be less death than with complete biosphere collapse due to all kind of pollution that is deeply linked with our civilization.
Crossing your finger so that we go on as far as we can, to make the world as toxic as we can is not really something to look forward, except that we'll enjoy comfort for a bit longer.
thesourpop@reddit
Collapse fetishism is so weird. Collapse may be inevitable but you will not be better off. You will either be one of the many casualties, or it will be a hellish existence.
Useless_Greg@reddit
I don't care if I'm better off or not. I just want humans to still exist at the end of the century
TheArcticFox444@reddit
No, you won't, people won't...and to say "millions will die" underestimates the casualties if our high-tech civilization fails. And, it will. Human history is littered with failed civilizations. We build them but, overall, they fail. See:
The Columbia History of the World edited by John A . Garraty and Peter Gay
Oxford also puts out a world history.
Some civilization go down through conquest, others by natural disasters but most fail because of human stupidity.
YoSoyZarkMuckerberg@reddit
"Crossing your fingers for the death of millions is kind of fucked up"
I don't think that's what OP said, or even hopes for.
"I know it's probably a very unlikely possibility, but I'm honestly crossing my fingers for a global disaster like this that will fry electronics and perhaps completely upend our digital world. I know it will cause the deaths of millions (those dependent on medical technology for life support etc.) but considering the threat of AIand nuclear warfare it may be the lesser of these evils"
FreeFortuna@reddit
“I’m crossing my fingers that the trolley will switch to Track B and run over that group of people.”
Hairy-Chipmunk7921@reddit
As long as they're not voting for correct candidate, nothing of value was lost
YoSoyZarkMuckerberg@reddit
To one degree or another, we're all being run over in collapse events. But it's true that people who literally depend upon electronics to live day to day will be hit harder if the grid fails and doesn't come back on. That being said, do we believe that technology as we know it today is sustainable, indefinitely? From what I can tell, many here can not even say that our societies are, some cannot even agree that our species is. If our world is destined to collapse around us, what happens to our tech?
FreeFortuna@reddit
“They’re probably going to die anyway, right?”
YoSoyZarkMuckerberg@reddit
Everyone ever born is going to die one way or another.
FreeFortuna@reddit
So why does the collapse even matter?
YoSoyZarkMuckerberg@reddit
I don't understand your question.
FreeFortuna@reddit
I responded before you edited your previous comment, which had originally only been the first sentence.
I’m not going to edit mine to match, though. Time for bed. G’night.
YoSoyZarkMuckerberg@reddit
You responded almost immediately. I edited it immediately after posting it, so I wasn't attempting anything funny, just genuinely fleshing out the thought.
PaPerm24@reddit
The death of billions is already nearly set in stone. maybe the death of millions can set us on a better track and atleast save a bit of the biosphere
Queendevildog@reddit
Yeah everyone is gonna die. Its just life.
Hairy-Chipmunk7921@reddit
Just ask all first world war veterans still alive today...
dANNN738@reddit
Not if it’s beneficial long term.
Call_It_@reddit
They’re all gonna die eventually anyway. And don’t lie, death and destruction excites you, just like it excites everyone else. At least OP isn’t afraid to admit it. It’s like the lyrics to the Tool song ‘Vicarious’:
“Don’t look at me like I am a monster Frown out your one face, but with the other Stare like a junkie into the TV Stare like a zombie while the mother holds her child Watches him die Hands to the sky crying, “Why, oh why?” ‘Cause I need to watch things die From a distance Vicariously, I live while the whole world dies You all need it too, don’t lie Why can’t we just admit it? Why can’t we just admit it?
Woman_from_wish@reddit
This is kind of reactionary and completely taken out of context to be so.
Karanpmc@reddit
Black hole sun, won't you come,
Cpt_Folktron@reddit
Very unlikely, and essential electrical components for serious weapons systems and a good amount of infrastructure are suitably shielded. It wouldn't mean an end to financial records, the power grid, or the threat of nuclear war--though it would seriosuly disrupt the global economy.
I suppose that it would likely make nuclear war more likely, as a disruption of that scale would drive many nations to desperation as well as create openings for opportunists.
Useless_Greg@reddit
Bring it on then. Total nuclear annihilation might be our best hope to survive as a species.
Beneficial_Table_352@reddit (OP)
An interesting point I had not considered thank you
Grinagh@reddit
SO-micronova
Our sun is a lot more complex than most people learned about in science classes.
Beneficial_Table_352@reddit (OP)
Thank you so much. I'll watch it for sure
Beneficial_Table_352@reddit (OP)
Thanks everyone for your contributions and comments. I'm gonna leave this one for now as it is a bit overwhelming and I got a bit more than I bargained for to be sure. I welcome you to continue to discuss amongst yourselves. Hope everyone is able to take care of themselves during this difficult time ✌️🙂
Charming-Rock-9@reddit
This is pretty twisted
Woman_from_wish@reddit
It's what we're facing and it's the grim truth of reality to say the death of millions is better than the deaths of billions. Personally I don't see the big deal. We're terrible. Humans are absolutely terrible. At the end of the day we're an insignificant speck inflated to importance only by our own sense of superiority.
TheArcticFox444@reddit
Ah...the key to the demise of our high-tech civilization. Homo sapiens (Man the wise) isn't wise at all. Homo se fraudans (Man who deceives himself) is a more accurate description of our species. We're too smart for our own good.
YoSoyZarkMuckerberg@reddit
Why? Is it any more "twisted" than demanding an end to fossil fuels knowing how many millions would starve without them?
redditmodsRrussians@reddit
Welcome to The Jackpot
GarthDonovan@reddit
Military equipment is hardened for emp or cme. Most consumer grade stuff will fry if it's strong enough. But backbone infrastructure is fused and grounded it's not the same stuff as telegraph wires in 1859. These fear peddlers claim wires will burn up in the walls of your house. It's bull. 2003 i was in the x45 halloween solar storms trying to take pics with my 3.1mp kodac digital point and shoot. Still worked during and after. I think the satellite tv went down, but everything else worked. It would take a huge flare to do any real long-term damage. Even then, if its really big, the dead man switch for all nuke countries will go off. No avoiding nuke destruction in this kind of over the top scenario. It will be more damaging than then cme.
Beneficial_Table_352@reddit (OP)
Ahhh gotcha. Thanks for commenting
TheArcticFox444@reddit
You may not have to wait for a solar supper storm.
If you really are hoping hope for something like that to happen, you will enjoy:
This Is How They Tell Me The World Ends: The Cyber-Weapons Arms Race by Nicole Perlroth, 2021.
(New York Times best seller and Winner of Business Book of the Year 2021)
Also: Lights Out by Ted Koppel (2015)
Call_It_@reddit
I’ve seen some theories online that earth’s magnetic field is weakening, and thus more vulnerable we are to solar flares.
Beneficial_Table_352@reddit (OP)
Ahh how interesting 🤔 thank you for your input
Call_It_@reddit
They’re all gonna die eventually anyway. And don’t lie, death and destruction excites you, just like it excites everyone else. At least OP isn’t afraid to admit it. It’s like the lyrics to the Tool song ‘Vicarious’:
“Don’t look at me like I am a monster. Frown out your one face, but with the other. Stare like a junkie into the TV. Stare like a zombie while the mother holds her child. Watches him die. Hands to the sky crying, “Why, oh why?” Cause I need to watch things die. From a distance. Vicariously, I live while the whole world dies. You all need it too, don’t lie. Why can’t we just admit it? Why can’t we just admit it?”
‘Vicarious’ by Tool
anonymousmutekittens@reddit
People always ready for the deaths of millions until they realize they could be one of them. You might not be electronically dependent now, but things change.
fortevn@reddit
In my noob opinion, such a disaster will totally collapse our current lifestyle and possibly our modern civilization. But it probably will prevent a world war/nuke war since all the crazy ass leaders won’t be able to dictate senseless killing anymore. And a lot of military stuff will be on hold as well, like a lot of air force can’t be on air right?
MilosDom403@reddit
Military infrastructure is already hardened against the threat of EMP from high altitude nukes, all the infrastructure destruction would be civilians.
RadCrab3@reddit
Ah good to see another Aussie on the site
YoSoyZarkMuckerberg@reddit
How ya goin?
Beneficial_Table_352@reddit (OP)
Oi oi oi 🤣
Infinite_Goose8171@reddit
Science Priests say Sun God not real. Sun God angry. Sun God smite Science priests.
psychetropica1@reddit
I have been wondering about it this as well… 11 year cycle baby! Thanks for posting
face4theRodeo@reddit
It is possible to rise above the crippling effects of physical and emotional pain and loss*, to the point that collapse isn’t particularly scary and death isn’t really the worst thing. From my perspective even my own death isn’t necessarily the worst occurrence and might actually by in my best interests.
trivetsandcolanders@reddit
I would really prefer that this not happen, personally.
Queendevildog@reddit
Me too
BuckleJoe@reddit
I just want to see a solar storm knock out all electronics on like half the planet and watch what happens.
Queendevildog@reddit
I dont
AngusScrimm---------@reddit
A massive Grid failure will wipe out a high percentage of the population in technologically advanced countries. It's certainly far more likely than a civilization killer like a super volcano.
Mission-Notice7820@reddit
Throw it on the pile
StatementBot@reddit
The following submission statement was provided by /u/Beneficial_Table_352:
I'm terrible with technology so here's an edit- apologies for any offense caused by my careless comments. I'm on the spectrum so not good with phrasing and understanding these things before I speak. I would be horrified and heartbroken if this happened, and would also most likely be one of those casualties. 😢
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1g3y4c8/the_threat_of_a_solar_superstorm_is_growingand/lrzpw9y/
Beneficial_Table_352@reddit (OP)
I'm terrible with technology so here's an edit- apologies for any offense caused by my careless comments. I'm on the spectrum so not good with phrasing and understanding these things before I speak. I would be horrified and heartbroken if this happened, and would also most likely be one of those casualties. 😢
thismightaswellhappe@reddit
Out of curiosity, what happens to nuclear power plants in this scenario?
Absolute-Nobody0079@reddit
I have been saying this for last 2 years.
Beneficial_Table_352@reddit (OP)
Do you have any resources? Further thoughts? I'm very curious about it
Mafhac@reddit
Humanity could cut back on fossil fuel, miraculously develop methods of massive CO2 capture, achieve net 0, restore biodiversity, cure world hunger and do everything else right and still be fucked by a Gamma ray burst, solar storm, supervolcano, or an asteroid impact
Is it meaningless to talk about such scenarios? I honestly don't know.
Beneficial_Table_352@reddit (OP)
So true. We can't know... Probably just bad for our collective mental health. My brain goes to dark places sometimes. Thank you for the reminder
BlackMassSmoker@reddit
It is a terrifying thought. Like you, I'm not knowledgeable on the subject, but is it a heady and vertigo inducing thought. Our world would be forever changed in less than day and life as we know it would be gone.
Killing Joke did a song about it from the album MMXII (2012) with different tracks being about various end-of-world scenarios, the stand out track being the opener Pole Shift
Glitch is one that refers to solar storms causing the 'glitch' which brings about the end our digital world:
Glitch, get ready for the glitch
Where's my light, my water, my flight across the pond?
Where's my summer holiday, what the hell's gone wrong?
Economy is doomed, infrastructure ruined
Everyone knows it's over
It's an aberration, they're working on the back-up
Everyone knows it's over
It's an aberration, it's just a minor hiccup
Everyone knows it's over
The solar storms have come and chaos rules outside
The freezer's broke, the food are off, the GPS has died
Communications have all gone dead and the world is flying blind
Not the best lyrics but the song itself, like many on the album, capture that apocalyptic feeling.