Android 16 will include a Terminal and full Linux VM support with GPU acceleration
Posted by AWorldOfPhonies@reddit | linux | View on Reddit | 300 comments
When this happens, those huge Samsung tablets will finally make sense!
rockst4rzz@reddit
isp fucking time
roubent@reddit
Can we have Android running on a Linux hypervisor instead? That was all the bullshit that needs to stay confined can stay in the VM, and I can have a proper OS running on bare metal…
djao@reddit
Waydroid comes close to this (it's a container, not a VM).
Separate_Paper_1412@reddit
I know this is a meme by now, but if this happens I think it will be great for Linux. Sure android is not gnu/Linux but it's Linux and I think that's good enough to raise awareness about gnu/Linux. I can't wait to buy a tablet or a tri fold phone with android 16 to use it instead of a laptop.
hipster-coder@reddit
It's the year of the Android desktop.
Separate_Paper_1412@reddit
Anything but windows or Mac. It's pretty close to a gnu/Linux distro. It is Linux but not gnu/Linux which is what people mean when they say android/ChromeOS are not Linux even though they use Linux kernels
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
It'll be a tragedy for Android desktop to happen before Linux desktop.
londons_explorer@reddit
Is this intended as an option for devs/enthusiasts, or do they intend regular users to be able to install desktop apps/games like regular apps and not even realise they're using a VM?
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
From the article, it looks like they're trying to expand Android's useability to a full desktop/laptop OS.
Separate_Paper_1412@reddit
Is the year of the Linux desktop finally coming? I would buy one of those huge Samsung Android tablets or a tri fold phone in a heartbeat if I could use them as fully blown PCs, which is something Android 16 will allow.
andDevW@reddit
If Android ran on x86 PCs it'd be able to functionally replace Windows for most users by virtue of all of the apps that Android already has - apps are typically available for both platforms with a cloud backend keeping things synced. Android's larger user base than Windows means that Nvidia/AMD would have to provide support and with support for PC video games it could easily put Windows out of the gaming business.
Android already has the bigger chunk of the user pie globally and if they rolled out a free desktop OS that came with Google Play it would make leaving Windows doable for a decent chunk of people stuck on Windows.
rebbsitor@reddit
I hope this goes better than trying to turn Windows into a tablet/phone OS. Window 8/8.1 and that era of touch first apps was horrible.
great_whitehope@reddit
Yeah everyone trying to make the all in one OS has failed miserably so far
LukeLC@reddit
It's not inevitable, though. Samsung DeX is surprisingly usable as a desktop Android interface. The biggest thing it's missing is just desktop apps. This would only solve the problem so much (given you'd be reliant on translation layers for most things) but it's an interesting step in the right direction.
RadBrad87@reddit
Not for long...consumer computers are moving more and more to ARM. Aside from the PC gaming niche, x86 just makes less and less sense in a laptop or even consumer grade desktop. And who even buys a desktop for a non-gaming and non-business use case?
LukeLC@reddit
Well, I'm pretty sure translation layers will be with us a long time during the transition, but yep, this is a case where I think early adopters with community tools today will prove the market for official support tomorrow.
Just imagine if Android got full-fat versions of the Adobe suite and Microsoft 365. That alone would make it a viable desktop platform for a huge userbase overnight.
AnEagleisnotme@reddit
Translation layers are probably going to be there practically forever, like 32 bit libraries currently are. There's always that random program that was never updated
aphantombeing@reddit
Why does x86 make less sense in laptop? Is arm pc really that efficient? How is it's current effeciejcy compared to x86? I read some articles that it is failing to live upto it's hype.
blackcain@reddit
flathub / snapstore have your apps. I suspect they'll team up with Ubuntu for this.
Adventurous-Test-246@reddit
Bro, what would you need translation layers for? (pretty much just windows games but that is the case with linux anyway)
Linux on arm support is great and has been for years. Linux on ARM severs are and have been popular for a good while. Also plenty of chromebooks are already arm based and those are a popular choice for entry level laptops.
My younger brother doesnt use any x86_64 devices and the only one i use is my work machine. My brother is an android and ChromeOS on ARM native. The current set of HS/MS kids are increasingly using ARM and linux based systems as thier only form of computing. Thus when they need to do anything not directly supported in ChromeOS the best answer is to use the linux aspect of ChromeOS since they often dont have access to any windows capable hardware. These kids are growing up either using all google stuff or googles stuff and a some linux/FOSS stuff. My brother and many of his peers only play games that can run on their often school issued hardware. If it doesnt support android, chromeOS or linux they either cant play it or they play it on a console assuming they have one.
I am not exactly happy an entire generation is growing up this deep in the google ecosystem but its not like I can stop it.
For these kids, getting proper linux support on their phones would just mean their phones and laptops have more SW in common. The SW compatibility just becomes bidirectional since their phones SW suit already runs on their laptop thanks to the chromebook's support for android apps. To a person who has never used windows or x86_64 this makes perfect sense and is a logical next step. Translation layers are completely foreign concepts to these people.
ARM is only an issue when using windows cause windows sucks and is a closed source system running closed source SW thus greatly reducing the speed at which native arm build become available.
Adventurous-Test-246@reddit
really only windows failed, apple and linux did a fine job.
theksepyro@reddit
Gnome is pretty good with libadwiata imo
Adventurous-Test-246@reddit
Well they are already pretty close since chrome os is a thing and i bet this feature going into mainstream android is connected to the alleged push too rebase chrome os as an android distro that can run linux apps and not a linux based distro that can run android apps.
Effectively they are just trying to simplify what already is by using Android as the base for more things instead of splitting the linux kernel into more branches, one for android and one for chrome os. Similar to how plenty of smart watches used a non android branch of linux before the days of wearOS. I was concerned about chrome os moving to an android base but if they really do add these features like the post suggests then maybe it will be slightly less of an issue.
Odd_Cauliflower_8004@reddit
I disagree.expecially windows 8 before 8.1 it was awesome if developers had leant into it. It was lighter, faster and battery aware. The UI restrictions still make more sense than any mobile os today- all buttons on the lower part anyone? All it needed was more developers care but they did not manage to attract it. I loved the shit out of my Ativ s
blackbasset@reddit
Or turning desktop Linux in a touchscreen only environment, looking at you gnome and Ubuntu from some years ago
cooncheese_@reddit
Provided the hardware support is there and we get near native with gpu acceleration this could actually work.
Not reinventing the wheel, no half baked Android productivity interfaces or Windows - just make it run a tried and true OS/desktop environment.
Over the years I've bought my share of portable devices, and they all still require me to carry a regular laptop (if I need to work) . Frankly a waste of money lol.
I got close with an Android tablet/laptop and a terminal server but there were still way too many annoyances.
Now days I carry a Chinese n100 laptop that's absolutely tiny as my just in case device, but I really should be able to get away with a tablet lol.
Secrxt@reddit
Windows OS still hasn't recovered from Windows 8.
strings___@reddit
It works more like WSL2. Which IMHO works pretty well depending on your use case.
Shadowborn_paladin@reddit
Considering Linux on desktop has been a thing for ages and is rapidly growing and android is based on Linux I'm cautiously optimistic that this could go well.
teddybrr@reddit
W8 and W10 are fine on a tablet.
W11 turned swiping from left edge (WIN+TAB combo) into ads.
Also the full screen onscreen keyboard with a full button layout (ctrl, alt, esc, ...) can no longer be moved.
I have no future with Microsoft and only keep a VM to look up stuff to help people.
VelvetElvis@reddit
Windows surface convertible laptops are sweet but way overpriced.
_buraq@reddit
Classic Shell was the solution back then, as Open-Shell is now
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
That was destined to fail. Didn't they just force Windows OS to run on limited hardware?
DoubleDecaff@reddit
How contrasting. Now they're trying to force it not to run on acceptable hardware.
T8ert0t@reddit
Whatever happened to that Fuschia thing?
oxid111@reddit
They used in production in Google home nest or whatever it was called
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
Never heard of it but if it's from Google, it'll be unsurprisingly abandoned.
Swizzel-Stixx@reddit
From linux it came and to linux it shall return
Johnny-Dogshit@reddit
I guess they really gave up on Fuchsia hey
PhukUspez@reddit
I hope this does well, it could massively benefit the Ubuntu Touch devs, as well as Purism, Pinephone, and any other projects.
Known-Exam-9820@reddit
Isn’t that what a Chromebook essentially is?
notonyanellymate@reddit
Yes, The 2 are getting closer and closer to becoming one OS. Optimise your Android apps
Known-Exam-9820@reddit
Ah, i thought they were more alike than they are. Carry on!
A_for_Anonymous@reddit
Or rather: they never took Android seriously and even gimped its filesystem beyond any remote usability with the 1 file a second scoped storage API crap, marketed it with gimmicks, engineered it to run appity apps for every stupid shit, made gacha games the killer app, and over the last 9 major versions or so the differences could be summarised in a couple of bullet points like this bar or that theme, plus a hefty increase in resource usage to obsolete phones (which they're of course incentivised to do since they charge per new phone only).
So now they want people to be able to do something useful with them, and they have to resort to making things built for other operating systems run on Android thanks to the shared kernel.
Jumper775-2@reddit
Makes sense since they gave up on fuschia
RaggaDruida@reddit
It kind of makes sense if they're willing to fully fuse with chromeos, it wouldn't make sense to maintain 2 OSs when inter-compatibility could be advantageous.
lavilao@reddit
Google said that chromeos was going to be using more of the android stack and they removed lacros so the rumours say that they will merge them
omniuni@reddit
Long overdue. I actually quite liked Android 4.4 on netbooks, before they removed a lot of tablet functionality in 5.0.
jess-sch@reddit
ChromeOS will be moved onto an Android base in the future, and they gotta achieve feature parity on Android before that can happen. That's what this is about.
AnEagleisnotme@reddit
Well of course they killed adblock so now having extensions is fine
jess-sch@reddit
Keep saying "they killed adblock" all you want. I switched from uBO to uBO Lite (the manifest v3 version) a while ago and have yet to see a single ad that wasn't already there before.
TeutonJon78@reddit
Would seem more likely they would want to move to Fuchsia and drop the Linux part altogether to control more of the stack.
jess-sch@reddit
Would seem if you've been sleeping for a year or two. Most of the former fuchsia team has been reassigned a while ago and I haven't heard any news about management changing their mind on that.
TeutonJon78@reddit
I mean, they just had a release in June -- https://fuchsia.dev/whats-new/release-notes/f20
And pretty consistent releases in 2024 and 2023. Someone is still working on it.
gnarlysnowleopard@reddit
that's actually great news
VelvetElvis@reddit
I'm guessing large, institutional users like healthcare and education where thousands of devices are remotely managed.
Sinaaaa@reddit
In all likelihood as a regular user the insane battery consumption would probably deter me.
paperbenni@reddit
I would love for Google to abandon all the virtualization crap and get their shit together. ChromeOS is native Linux but has a VM for running normal Linux applications, another VM for Android applications and the only "native" applications are web apps. They call them containers, but it's virtualization and low end Chromebooks are sold with software installed that logically cannot run on them because of the huge memory overhead. If they were to port Android to mainline Linux like they said they would years ago and allow for native flatpak then they could just replace all their messes with a single OS that somewhat approaches Apple in terms of efficiency. iPads outperformed android/chromeOS tablets even when their processors were waaay slower, the competition can't afford software with crappy performance and throwing more hardware at the problem.
Richard_Masterson@reddit
Android, Chrome OS and GNU are three different operating systems. Even if they use the Linux kernel to run, they need some sort of chroot (or in the case of Android, virtualization) to run the other OS' programs.
This is the issue that arises with calling GNU/Linux simply "Linux." People get all confused and think different, incompatible operating systems are the same thing because they use the same kernel.
paperbenni@reddit
That's my point. They use the same kernel. I would be happy with containers, but right now they might as well be using temple OS and Darwin because they completely virtualize everything.
artemiddle@reddit
Why do you have to use a VM when you already have a nice running Linux kernel? Why not just spin up an LXC container? Or is it not actually virtualizing any hardware?
Richard_Masterson@reddit
Because they don't want the GNU/Linux apps to modify or even interact with the Android OS so they need to keep it contained into it's own little box.
Mister_Magister@reddit
why does linux need linux vm?
JakeWisconsin@reddit
Because androud is too different from desktop Linux and so the user doesn't brick their phones.
Mister_Magister@reddit
i mean i know, i've been doing quite a lot android dev (no not apps, android), but i'm simply poking fun at android and people saying "android is linux"
notonyanellymate@reddit
Android runs on Linux, doesn’t it?
Kevin_Kofler@reddit
But Android is not GNU/Linux. See now why the distinction matters? :-)
notonyanellymate@reddit
I understand it’s not got the GNU philosophy, FLOSS values etc, I do feel where you’re coming from. But we gotta concede that Android and ChromeOS for that matter both run on the Linux kernel. And it’s interesting that Linux is used on almost twice as many computer devices than Windows.
Kevin_Kofler@reddit
Yes, it runs on the kernel Linux. But it is not, nor does it run on top of, the operating system widely called "Linux", which is actually GNU/Linux. It just happens to use (a fork of) the same kernel. The userspace is completely different.
notonyanellymate@reddit
Correct it doesn’t run on GNU/Linux. It runs on the Linux kernel. But I think you would find it enlightening to read https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU/Linux_naming_controversy
MatchingTurret@reddit
Still doesn't explain the VM... A container should be sufficient.
ct_the_man_doll@reddit
Android block access to certain syscalls, running Linux in a VM allows you get access to those syscalls. Plus, this allows you to run a custom kernel and not have to rely on the kernel installed on the phone.
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
Access to device resources probably.
blackcain@reddit
What's the purpose? I'm trying to figure that out. Unless they want to run proton on linux and then have access to games?
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
Lots! It depends primarily on the user. I dabble in programming, and this could finally make tablets viable for mobile web dev.
I can finally go to cafes to hang out and work without having to find seats near power outlets! Plus, I won't have to tether since Android tablets can be used as phones too!
FortyDubz@reddit
Andddd Android just keeps getting better!
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
Here's hoping high range 8-inch tablets that can be used as a phone (unlike iPads!) make a comeback soon! Those are my jam!
Altruistic-Teach-177@reddit
Steam and pc games on android! Finally, a reason to buy an expensive smartphone with 12+gb of ram
gustav_joaquin_rs@reddit
it will be in vm xd
IronRocketCpp@reddit
peak tech
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
You get a steamdeck and you get a steamdeck and you get a stramdeck! Everyone gets a steamdeck!
Danny_el_619@reddit
So my phone will become actually useful? Good
rayjaymor85@reddit
I just SSH into my homeserver. Cheaper than a whacked out tablet and probably uses way less battery too....
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
Not everyone can expose their home ports so easily...
_buraq@reddit
Tailscale. You're welcome
cloudTank@reddit
And suddenly a wild "No internet connection" appears.
lsdood@reddit
Satellite internet where I live. Trying to stream a game to my phone from my desktop is a no go indeed
Zireael07@reddit
*possibly* in Android 16.
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
I dream a dream...
RephRayne@reddit
Do androids dream of electric sheep?
DrWDGaster_@reddit
Do robots dream of eternal sleep?
SploingusDuoingus@reddit
Is that an Ultrakill reference I see⁉️
DrWDGaster_@reddit
MinosPrime@localsanctum: sudo apt thy update is NOW!
SploingusDuoingus@reddit
And then the Flesh Prison package is broken :(
Sleepy_Chipmunk@reddit
The other night I dreamt of sleeping til 10 PM.
RR321@reddit
Last night, I had the strangest dream
I sailed away to China
In a little rowboat to find ya
And you said you had to get your laundry clean
Didn't want no one to hold you, what does that mean?
doubled112@reddit
I’m not a bot, but I sure do.
Monsieur2968@reddit
Like mareep?
Yes, I know what it's from.
gapplef@reddit
Do androids dream of electron app?
wurnthebitch@reddit
If they dream they would also have nightmares
githman@reddit
I've always wondered what electric sheep might think of androids. Probably nothing pretty.
SweetBearCub@reddit
Virtually, it seems.
Entire_Border5254@reddit
But now that dream is gone from me
RomanOnARiver@reddit
In times gone by
ActiveCommittee8202@reddit
I bet OEMs will nerf it just like they nerfed DSU loader.
No_Page8256@reddit
If it really happens then I will surely shift to it but for now I am good with ios
Reygle@reddit
Don't get TOO hyped. As someone who's had Termux for years, a terminal on a touch screen is good for an occasional SSH to reboot something or to ping a devices, and honestly nothing else.
Without a physical keyboard, a terminal is slightly more useful than a swift kick in the teeth.
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
If you time your tablet purchase right, they come with keyboard folio.
Reygle@reddit
My brain classifies such a thing as "laptop". That's on me.
cloudTank@reddit
Just learn vim if you commute via train or use a bluetooth keyboard if you sit in a cafe.
chaosgirl93@reddit
Kinda cool, but mostly I'm thinking about everyone's mums who struggle to navigate a phone who are gonna open terminal by mistake and freak out, if it's intended to be easy to find and the various device manufacturers don't remove or hide it.
maplenerd22@reddit
The article said it needs to be enabled under developer options. Someone's mum isn't going know how to get to developer options in the first place.
chaosgirl93@reddit
Oh, good.
bastardoperator@reddit
Will the terminal have gpu acceleration?
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
Why?
bastardoperator@reddit
Most terminals have GPU acceleration these days, check out alacritty.
planetafro@reddit
I'm sure this comes from the Linux features on Chromebooks and let me tell you, it's amazing. If you dig, you can get an 8gb/intel dev box for around 200$US. Expanding this out to phones is a big win IMHO.
TimeFourChanges@reddit
I picked up a chromebook ThinkPad with a Ryzen 5 and 8 GB ram recently (used, grade A) - but to install linux on it, specifically. I put CachyOS on it (Arch-based), and I can't believe what an incredible machine I now have for a mere $200. (But for me, it's for light gaming).
planetafro@reddit
The weirdest thing for me regarding the Linux market for these is the processor choice. A lot of people would really think that a Chromebook is a Chromebook but that is far from true using Linux. The experience for the non-Intel CPU ones just isn't good. A lot of common tools and package managers just aren't built up for non-intel. Maybe one day. Perhaps android dev is better, but that isn't my scene. :)
Additionally, the "Play Store" experience they are trying to mainline isn't good with the processor variation as well. Some apps run swimmingly and others run like hot garbage. I suspect it's got to do with the virtualization layer and the proc selection as well.
rokejulianlockhart@reddit
"Non-Intel"? Did you just forget that AMD makes x86 CPUs? I imagine you mean non-x86-64, like ARM64?
planetafro@reddit
Sure.
drspod@reddit
I don't know anything about Chromebooks; when you say "non-Intel" does that specifically mean ARM or are there other CPU architectures in use for these devices?
planetafro@reddit
I'm pretty sure they are all ARM derivatives. The cheaper ones usually have stuff like mediaTek and the like.
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
I used an Asus Chromebook with 8gb of ram for dev before. It works but the screen is too small. Attaching it to a monitor defeats the purpose of a portable dev device.
tamdelay@reddit
I like this a lot!
But I am wondering googles plans…
Is ChromeOS becoming Android or is Android becoming a desktop OS as well replacing ChromeOS? And what about Fuchsia? And Linux apps as well? Where do they fit in, in long term?
It’s a bit confusing but I’m looking forward to a phone that can be a desktop as well
SecretAgentZeroNine@reddit
If Google can make a nicer Pixel tablet (less IKEA looking, more industrial design looking) that has a keyboard dock, I might give a large screen Android tablet a go. Though, I prefer 8" tablets + a decent laptop.
cidra_@reddit
A great way to diminish the relevance of projects like Halium and Postmarketos
gecike@reddit
I am willing to trade those for a preinstalled terminal app.
Kevin_Kofler@reddit
But those both give you a preinstalled terminal app right now.
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
I don't quite get what Halium is, but I think Postmarketos will still be relevant since their goal is to keep devices that are no longer getting software updates running and relevant.
harbourwall@reddit
It's an adaptation layer for running vanilla Linux on top of an Android kernel and drivers. It uses libhybris to translate between glibc and bionic syscalls, and runs Android drivers and their daemons in a container with bridges to common GNU/Linux APIs.
Halium (or the similar HADK of SailfishOS) paired with one of the many mature mobile Linux distributions available (.e.g. SailfishOS, UBports, LuneOS, Maemo Leste) gives you full root access to your device, so you actually own and control the thing that you've bought. You'd be surprised how often that comes in handy when an OS or app vendor has messed up yet has denied you enough access to backup/restore/fix it, and how frustrating it is to not have it on the major mobile OSes when you're used to having such control.
So this move by Google seems like another cynical attempt to bait and contain potential supporters of competitors by partially satisfying their needs while keeping full control, just like their 'look but don't touch' AOSP policy partially placates people who might want an open-source mobile OS while completely frustrating the collaborative community ecosystem that would usually be part of such a thing and making distros that do work that way more niche than they should be.
TheReverend403@reddit
I didn't realise Google were under any obligation to maintain the relevance of third-party projects.
harbourwall@reddit
It helps avoid accusations of anti-competitive, monopolistic behaviour.
cidra_@reddit
Please refrain from using strawman arguments, as that's not what I meant
barkbumps@reddit
Looks like it would be some kind of VM. How would root work?
kalzEOS@reddit
Tweenk@reddit
It's for security and reliability. Because Linux app support lives in a VM, you can run any root commands you want and it won't break the basic web browser functionality.
kalzEOS@reddit
So, they locked a Linux distro and let people run another Linux distro inside of it in a VM?
YamiYukiSenpai@reddit
Am I the only one who thought of the character Android 16 when first reading the title?
DjAbblas@reddit
🍎 🕳️
Forward_Front_1379@reddit
Pretty sure Samsung will lock this feature to their flagship models, like how Samsung DeX has been. Your mid range A series phone actually able to run a Samsung DeX environment but that's a software locked, enabled if you install a custom ROM.
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
But DeX is Samsung software. They can lock it however they want.
This feature is core Android so it should be available for most Android devices barring really low power ones.
h_adl_ss@reddit
At least until recently phones have been skimping on the USB controller and the basic ones don't even support DP alt mode. So for those there is no way to ever get this.
Flatworm-Ornery@reddit
Not every devices will have the option, only the ones with the Android Virtualization Framework.
jess-sch@reddit
"It's a part of android" hasn't been a consideration for Samsung since, like, ever. Android has had proper multiuser for years now and I still don't see Samsung supporting it on their phones.
Forward_Front_1379@reddit
One UI Core is a variant of One UI Samsung puts into the low end phones like A04, it doesn't have screen recording feature even though screen recording is a core feature from AOSP. They simply disable it and no one asks why. So why they can not do that with Linux VM support?
timrosu@reddit
Is this core variant similar to google's android go?
Forward_Front_1379@reddit
I don't know as I don't own one myself, my phone ships with normal OneUI. But OneUI Vote is a cropped one.
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
It makes sense for lower end devices, I guess.
OdeDaVinci@reddit
Google Pixels!
AdRich6905@reddit
giggles in MadHatter
BlueeWaater@reddit
This would be great, more flexibility and older devices might work fine as servers
snyone@reddit
Now if only it was native and without all the Google bullshit..
MatchingTurret@reddit
I'm confused. The Chrome OS documentation says
Why does the article say "Linux VM"?
H9419@reddit
Because this is Android and probably building on top of pKVM which would be great if made more available. Even on pixel 6/7 it is really locked down right now with no Linux VM in sight
cloudTank@reddit
I really hope this will enable hybrid approaches like half native app, half vm in the future. Like imagine a termux 2.0 with full docker support (no custom android kernel for cgroups etc. but a parallel kernel for a small vm, that is optimized for running only docker) thanks to pkvm.
H9419@reddit
Android server with kubernetes is not a dream then
amrdoe@reddit
So will we be able to see things like Docker and Visual Studio Code on Android?
cloudTank@reddit
I was running docker containers in termux in an emulated vm (sure, slow as hell, but i loved the process of tinkering) already a few years ago. If this comes with Android 16, it will be wild!
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
I hope so, le sigh...
DemonKingSwarnn@reddit
those gnome apps will look good on mobile, i think i know what's the first apps i will install
osmac@reddit
Can't remember the last time I was excited for a new android release! But damn, I can't wait!
nixcamic@reddit
Dex will finally be useful.
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
Hopefully this is separate from DeX.
nixcamic@reddit
Hopefully you can use it in Dex though. It would be nice to be able to have a Linux VM running full screen on my monitor but he able to alt tab into messages or WhatsApp.
Prudent_Move_3420@reddit
Does that mean you can finally install VSCode on Android?
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
Very likely! Though I don't see the reason why. Vim is all you need.
Prudent_Move_3420@reddit
I love Vim inside of an IDE (but VSCode’s implementation sucks and I think IntelliJ isnt available on ARM so lets hope for zed
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
I'm sorry but that's just wrong. :(
Prudent_Move_3420@reddit
I tried setting up Neovim once but I ended up requiring so many plugins that manging dependencies was very annoying
drspod@reddit
If you use a package manager such as Lazy.nvim then you don't need to do any dependency management.
IronRocketCpp@reddit
Another LazyVim user?
BananaUniverse@reddit
Honestly I don't see why I'll go to all the trouble of setting up neovim into a full IDE when I could just use an actual IDE. Not to mention waaayy too many features that need keyboard shortcuts, leading to an unintuitive mess of random shortcuts.
I still use neovim as my daily driver, but only in a very barebones state, along with other cli tools to stay keyboard centric. If it gets too difficult to manage, I'll just fire up a full-fat IDE rather than configuring neovim more.
studentblues@reddit
VScode works in Termux.
i_donno@reddit
This would have no Wayland or X Windows
IronRocketCpp@reddit
Please god, don't let this be a dream.
LuceusXylian@reddit
Developing an App in Android for Android would be interesting to see. But the low processing power of a tablet would make compile time high.
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
I would've liked to counter with the new ARM processors that are giving the Mac chips a run for their money, but apparently, they still have a few kinks to figure out.
omniuni@reddit
Linux is in a much better position for that. The vast majority of FOSS software is already able to run on ARM directly.
HotDribblingDewDew@reddit
This is not true in my experience. Had real struggles in asahi because my usual apps were not available.
omniuni@reddit
You were using the Fedora Asahi remix?
aksdb@reddit
Hey, no kink-shaming.
james_pic@reddit
Note though that a typical tablet today is more powerful than a typical PC was when Android was first launched.
snil4@reddit
And then all advancement stopped because no one understood why they would need more power in their phone except for better photo processing, but let's hope linux will bring a good change.
SweetNothingsAbound@reddit
Direct Linux support will make it even easier to reuse old android phones for random projects in place of Pis etc too tbh
RedSquirrelFtw@reddit
That would definitely be cool. I hate how phones are basically these black boxes that become useless after a while due to lack of updates. But this might actually change if you can actually run regular Linux applications on it.
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
Don't say that! Now the smartphone makers will block this!
SweetNothingsAbound@reddit
Haha I doubt they care as long as they end up obsolete/outdated as "phones"
RedSquirrelFtw@reddit
What would be cool is if there was a way to run a phone in a VM, on your phone. So run a custom rom as main OS to maintain privacy and be disconnected from all the google stuff, but have a VM that is running an android phone with the regular google android in a virtual environment. It would not have access to sensitive info such as your contacts or sensors, but allow you to run apps that are not available as an APK, so you can still use mainstream apps that are often required for every day things, but in a confined environment so the google stuff can't access any of the sensitive stuff.
I currently run a custom rom but I feel there is going to be a point where I won't hvae a choice but to run a regular google or apple rom, since so many every day things like modern cars are starting to require apps now and you need play or istore to access them.
Rubix202@reddit
I real this thinking of DBZ
RoomyRoots@reddit
Honestly running that in a Pixel Tablet with Graphene will probably the first time I would find Tablets useful for more than trivial reading and media consumption.
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
I've been trying to make Android tablets a workable web dev machine for years. Termux and node got me close but it's just not robust enough.
bwfiq@reddit
Try running a vscode server and access it from a browser. Works pretty well!
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
I prefer something running locally for connectivity reasons.
bwfiq@reddit
Makes sense. Does it need to be Android? I actually really enjoy my surface go 2 for coffee shop work
crafter2k@reddit
have you tried using a chroot based distro before
BakGikHung@reddit
Chromebook and remote VPS is very usable, if you use web based code server.
jess-sch@reddit
The problem is that many countries only get the 4G RAM versions of Chromebooks, which have been basically unusable since ArcVM became a thing.
notonyanellymate@reddit
I have 4gb Chromebooks and they all run fine
jess-sch@reddit
With Android enabled and in use? My Duet idles at 90% memory utilization. The heavy swapping is extremely noticeable. Before the ArcVM switch, I could easily multitask on that thing. Now it's one thing at a time or it slows to a crawl.
RoomyRoots@reddit
Chromebooks have that stupid keyboard and are often to low specs for their prices.
Honestly an 10" ARM tablet with a detachable keyboard and a decent OS would be a killer. A Galaxy Tablet starts at an octacore 8GB with 128Gb of storage We really got downgraded once the Netbook market died.
BakGikHung@reddit
For remote development, specs don't really matter. In fact you want low power for better battery life. You can your development on a remote 32core machine with 256gb ram. Client side code does need to run on the chromebook but the biggest advantage is chrome developer tools. I used a 2 in 1 detachable chromebook with my split ergo keyboard so I don't care about the built-in keyboard.
RoomyRoots@reddit
That's the question, the news are about VMs and terminal, a VM for remote development is overkill specially if as you can chroot with third party solutions today.
People that want VMs to run in Android mostly want it to use native Linux tools and UIs. I would kill to have a Dex like experiemce with KDE but the only way to have something close to it is with postmarketOS which is not very compatible with modern devices.
Beautiful_Crab6670@reddit
...aaaaaaand suddenly all of those raspberry pi alternatives became relevant by (pretty much any kind of user).
I'd (still) prefer to use "the real thing" tho.
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
This is more for mobility and people who can only afford one good device.
LinearArray@reddit
This is great news, I'm curious to see how it actually gets implemented.
surafel911@reddit
This and Valves efforts to get Steam and Proton working on ARM strike me as related.
It's possible that Valve and Google might be working together to get steam and proton ( where they're making arm builds for Linux) working on Chrome OS / Android.
Don't know if this means that valve is working on arm hardware
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
Or parallel evolution. I'd rather google be separate from steam. Them joining forces? That can only end badly for us.
timschwartz@reddit
So can I run Windows apps with wine and qemu?
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
Someone's bound to try it.
Krobix897@reddit
I'm soooo happy that LG decided to abandon the phone market and is no longer releasing new updates for their phones 😥
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
LG's been of the phone market for years, right? Shouldn't you have moved on by now? 😉
xCoolMateo@reddit
If this goes through, then those big tablets from samsung would actually rival the ipad Pro and the laptop market as well.
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
I've used both and I find Samsung's tablets better than iPads. Primarily because of Termux and file handling.
midgaze@reddit
My next phone will be the one that I can plug into a display and use a keyboard/mouse with it most effectively. If it has a Linux system on it that would be amazing. WSL works great, I hope they aim for something like that.
I run on solar power, so a fully-functional low-power machine would be great for those little stretches when I don't have a lot of power coming in.
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
You can already do this with devices with DeX
TechnologyNerd617@reddit
Google: Wait no-
H9419@reddit
You could do that in termux for a while now, albeit slower
img_driff@reddit
the day where you get a tablet for work is coming!
H9419@reddit
Year of Linux desktop?
DuendeInexistente@reddit
I feel like brands, especially samsung are going to disable that altogether.
CaptainObvious110@reddit
This is great news
ElMachoGrande@reddit
That would take the tablet from being just a "gadget" to being a real computer (and I don't mean that in the "Turing-complete" way).
I just hope it'll not end up like the PS3 Linux support, which was a major selling point until Sony realized that it allowed people to make their own games, and removed it...
nightblackdragon@reddit
They didn't removed it because it allowed people to make their own games but to prevent jailbreaking and privacy. They removed it not long after exploit was created that allowed for bypassing hypervisor.
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
The anti iPad M4!
seven-circles@reddit
Maybe some day stuff like this will convince me to switch to Android. This is not enough, mind you, but it is a step in the right direction.
gnimsh@reddit
I haven't been able to ssh to work machines for years on personal devices so I've removed the terminal app for good.
Ssm only for aws, vpn for everything else, and my device needs to have passed a checklist review to install the Cisco anyconnect client (without breaking the rules).
SexBobomb@reddit
just as long as they get rid of that loop talking about killing Son Goku
use_your_imagination@reddit
It should be the other way around. A full native linux with an optional Java Android VM.
Matterhorn56@reddit
Termux already gets you halfway there right now.
FrumpleOrz@reddit
But will it kill Goku?
SadClaps@reddit
I just subscribed to /r/SparkingZero and was very confused by the title of this post
peeeels@reddit
Yay more fuel for me to ditch iPhone for good
shumandoodah@reddit
I know there is a big Android vs. iOS debate that I mostly don’t care about. BUT. . . VMs on my phone?! Yes, please!
VirtualWord2524@reddit
Hopefully it comes to fruition. Plug phone into monitor and use Darktable to edit RAW photos. Use a gamepad and FEX/Box64 to play Steam games. If it's good to start seeing laptops ship Android, full personal computer in the VM and have Android media apps that go 4k HDR rather than whatever limitations companies put on their website users
MyExclusiveUsername@reddit
But I have terminal and Ubuntu in VM, installed on my phone on Android 13
TjWolf8@reddit
What's different is this will have GPU acceleration
jt32470@reddit
mksudo remove --android
Holzkohlen@reddit
Makes sense I guess. Today's phones should be more than capable enough to double as a desktop PC for a lot of users.
Ohno230@reddit
That's why I plan my next phone to be a Samsung, then slap DeX On it and use a portable monitor. (With touch, idk if Samsung allows gestures on 3rd launchers)
To me that's a Desktop experience already, and it can browse and game, without the need of a mini pc (I just had enough of Xiaomi)
But what OP shared, maaan.. What News does this year holds for us still? :o Android phones r capable of doing more than what they can atm.
the_icon_of_sin_94@reddit
I hope this happens
Shadowborn_paladin@reddit
I wonder what desert they'll call it...
Aperture_Kubi@reddit
This will be an interesting boon to ARM development I think.
Key-Lie-364@reddit
On downstream kernels heavily modified by the likes of Qualcomm who half the time don't even use the drivers they upstream themselves
Anonuser9472@reddit
How long before you can install Linux apps on android. Install steam and start playing old games.
TLH11@reddit
Linux VM with Proton?
RectangularLynx@reddit
Life could be a dream...
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
Shboom shboom!
RectangularLynx@reddit
I hope other terminal emulators like Termux could work with it too :)
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
It would be kind of redundant for Termux to work when you can have a full Linux OS.
RectangularLynx@reddit
I mean, Termux is a very solid app, with some nice system integration like a command for copying/pasting from the clipboard. Really doubt the official app will be nearly as good
taptumabi@reddit
btw I have Arch installed in my pocket
Hyperpop_Girl@reddit
🥳
obiwanjacobi@reddit
I really don’t understand the use case. Break out the laptop or sit at the desk when you need to?
IHaveAPotatoUpMyAss@reddit
yea sure and santa will come and give you a free phone too
notonyanellymate@reddit
Get ready, there’s a lot more to this: Optimise your Android apps: https://chromeos.dev/en/android
Consider that Android has 46% of the global OS marketshare and Microsoft windows has 26%
21_Golden_Guns@reddit
Thought we were talking about DBZ for a second…
TheJackiMonster@reddit
Imagine Linux running a Linux VM... even with GPU acceleration.
Bestmasters@reddit
TF you mean Android 16? Android 15 isn't even fully released yet???
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
This is planned.
mr_kangaroo@reddit
Won't happen.
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
I hope you're wrong.
OurLordAndSaviorVim@reddit
I don’t think those huge Samsung tablets will ever make sense. They’re just too damn underpowered.
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
They're pretty good, I've used a couple models.
byakoron@reddit
Soon flatpak install in android
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
Yeeesh, what's next? Snap?
illathon@reddit
To be honest I don't even care. I would rather just have android apps running on Linux. Including on Nvidia GPUs.
Waydroid is great, but if you have an Nvidia GPU you are screwed. Anbox could do it, but Waydroid can't, but anbox basically stopped development. Doesn't make sense to me, but hopefully Waydroid gets better support.
bicebird@reddit
Anyone know if this requires specific hardware? My understanding is Pixels have kvm acceleration but I'm thinking of picking up a Fairphone 5 which likely doesn't.
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
We'll have to wait for the official release before making such decisions.
Ti47_867@reddit
Grandma is going to be so excited!
LeSaunier@reddit
It tooks me some time to realize that it wasn't a headline from r/dragonball
08-24-2022@reddit
I've been trying to hold onto my Galaxy A52 for as long as possible because of the headphone jack but looks like I'll have to either flash a custom ROM or buy a new phone.
netsurf012@reddit
I'm looking for this since Android 1.x. It is quite good now with termux but without hard keyboard, it is not convenient to use on a touch device even with tablet.
newusr1234@reddit
Actual source that this article is citing
NaukarNirala@reddit
holy based????
ibntofajjal@reddit
it's a dream :)
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
That's where it starts.
-illusoryMechanist@reddit
Samsung had this as a native implementation back in the day. Linux on Dex. Was always sad I never got the chance to use it because it was an idea with immense potential, happy to see it making a comeback finally
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
Never knew there was Linux on Dex.
lazazael@reddit
termux x11
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
Termux has limits. Like VMs.
Appropriate_Sale_626@reddit
I mean that's great and all, but imagine how bricked people's phones will be. I'm using termux on my phone and there's very little risk of anything bad happening as it's isolated
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
The article says it follows the Chromebook Linux feature. That probably means it's a VM.
Appropriate_Sale_626@reddit
Fair yeah that would be fine, or not grant root access hah
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
Yeah, VM will probably not have root access.
ModernUS3R@reddit
Or phones with dex.
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
Not really. DeX is just a UI thing. I'm more interested in the expanded features that this will bring.
ModernUS3R@reddit
Tablets already have large screens, but some phones that support external monitors will have the option to benefit from something like this as an alternative when trying to run VMs. Dex will make the experience comfortable.
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
You can run a pihole off your phone, imagine that.
Nizzuta@reddit
Can't way to run Android with Waydroid on Linux on Android
acewing905@reddit
If this actually happens, it'll be great. Getting GPU acceleration working is a special kind of pain right now, and even that not very well
But with wording like "potentially land with Android 16" and "It is not clear at the moment whether this feature will make its way to OEM-specific ROMs, but at least Pixel devices can be expected to offer support", I'm not very optimistic about this
Hot_Paint3851@reddit
wet dreams
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
Let's keep it clean, buddy.
Dull_Woodpecker6766@reddit
That'll be awesome if that could actually get rid of DEX
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
I actually like using DEX when I'm using the tablet in landscape and with the keyboard.
Dull_Woodpecker6766@reddit
Yeah me 2 works ok but Samsung does something to the keyboard and the mouse that I do not like.
Sometimes dex gets in the way of itself.
It almost works perfect but they (Samsung needing to be like apple all the time) do stuff "their way" but not the right way.
What I want:
Android plus a fully customizable full desktop environment on my tablet
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
Yeah, I get you. I hate that you have to press 'fn' to get 'esc'.
lazazael@reddit
release date?
AWorldOfPhonies@reddit (OP)
"soon"
HalanoSiblee@reddit
Terminal should be exist by default since android 1
The only immutable part is system libs and kernel
And user able to remove whatever app he likes
But android is a linux distro doesn't share the same openness & freedom as GNU/Linux distributions