What's with the myth that linux is hard to use? My experience after 6 months with barely any experience.
Posted by spelmo3@reddit | linux | View on Reddit | 237 comments
Just wanted to get people's views on this. And also share my own experiences. I see alot of people who ask the question should I switch or moan that when they did switch that they had a terrible time even getting to install Linux. And blame linux pretty much every time.
So im basically a linux newb. Ive had prior yet very limited use with linux mint but that's about it.
6-7 months ago I had enough with w11, ads in the start menu, co pilot ai And general privacy concerns since win 10. Just had enough!
I reformatted and went with ubuntu, had some issues with installing due to BIOS settings i changed to force win 11 to install. But I had it installed within a morning. I had 2 minor hitches with drivers. Realtek audio and nvidia drivers. Both fixed up with a quick Google search and spending more than 5 minutes just learning basic terminal commands and how they work.
Forgot the add I also had partition issues because i used ntfs and not ext4 oops.
Within 3 days I had my system set up. And my ui to a more similar Windows like experience.(dash to dock) Since then my experience has been flawless. Theres a few minor quirks and frustrations with Linux but nothing that infuriates me the same on windows.
It's been 6 months now. I've even upgraded my cpu and gpu 2 months ago. It was the easiest upgrade experience I've ever had. (I love mesa and amd) the only main issue I have. Which isn't a linux problem rather a market problem is native support with applications. Even still there's FOSS and paid alternatives that do support linux.
And even at that push there's wine. Which I still can't my head around how it works.
Even my gaming experience. Has been nearly on par with Windows. Legit every game I have works. Issues only arise from kernel level anti cheat or the likes of devs who haven't enabled EAC and Battle eye support for mp titles. Again. This isn't a linux issue. Rather a support issue.
Day to day use its simpler and faster to use. Its just took a little set up time and basically simply learning how linux does stuff differently.
I'm still learning a ton. I found I actually prefer using the terminal where at the beginning it was a little scary. Currently trying to learn the file structure where linux saves program files etc. Getting to grips with wine some more. But even for an average user. With a little Google search or just asking the linux community in general you'll always get help. Ive had better support from linux users than I ever have with windows official channels.
Still I've barely any issues from updates (when i want to install), Better performance. Better stability, better security and privacy. 0 bloat or slow down over time. Maintenance isnt required as much.
I've been a win user since 98, barely looked at linux. Now I wish a jumped ship years ago.
What was your first experiences like? Why do you think people assume linux is some fiddly pain in the arse system only tech heads can use? Is it the sheer amount of distros. People scared to do things different to windows?
thisiszeev@reddit
Been using Linux as my daily driver since 2006. I settled in the Debian ecosystem. So naturally I have a firstrun.sh script now.
A few weeks ago I bought a replacement laptop as my existing one said no. So I timed everything. Windows took 1 min 11 seconds to boot to login screen.
Debian install with running my first run script took 2 and a half hours. Total time to have everything completely setup as per my previous laptop.
Boot time to login screen ... 14 seconds.
Go figure
While I was waiting to procure a replacement laptop I borrowed my sister's windows 10 laptop. I was allowed install a few apps as long as they could easily be removed when I return it.
Took me more than a day just to do that step on her laptop. And I only install the bare essentials for work.
Why would people want to be that unproductive?
DerpyNirvash@reddit
What basic apps took a day to install?
thisiszeev@reddit
I have a lot of Open Source apps that I use for work and personal. I only use Open Source. Nothing else.
My work apps, when installed, stole 70+GB of her harddrive.
I do a lot of WebDev and AI work, including working with graphics, audio and video files. Since I am self employed I have had to become a jack of all.
marrsd@reddit
People have very different experiences with Linux based on their hardware, their choice of distro, how they use their computers, how their brains work, and I'm sure other things.
My first experience with Linux was as hard as I could have made it. After a decent amount of research, I settled for Debian Woody, which just the wrong choice for a newbie. Ultimately, it took me 2 false starts and a year to install a distro that I had any real success with.
I think the culture of FOSS software is very alien to a lot of people coming from a proprietary OS and makes it hard to get to grips with the system. There's no single answer to how to do anything. You can choose from at least 3 different options for just about any part of the system, from the system bootstrapper all the way up to the desktop environment. And then you have all the distros to pick from. That's pretty overwhelming for someone just looking for a Windows replacement.
daddyd@reddit
no os is hard to use if you know what you are doing. some os's make it easier to know what you are doing for being better designed and/or being more open. in that regard i never had any issues with linux/unix since i started using it in the mid-90s.
now, a nice, well supported desktop linux distro these days is nothing compared to what it was back in those days and usable by anybody. but the prejudices live on, while already being outdated for a long time.
Attair@reddit
I fisrt installed Linux on my Thinkpad Yoga (L360) and had immediate Problems from the beginning. Especially with the built in pen of the thinkpad. Getting the correct drivers took a whole day. This was my very first and furstrating experience with Linux. Other Errors kept coming up with incompatibilities with software, that should run on linux normally. I was very much a new with linux and getting MANY errors I could'nt fix or didn't know how to is very annoying.
You might say "skill issue" but that is the whole point of this post. Is linux hard and Yes it is for me, even to this day, there are some really weird and obscure bugs, very rare edge case's, that require you to have a very deep understanding of the OS.
Also Documentation is sometimes non existent, or only available for other Distro's so copying commands usually won't work. In the case of existing Documentation it is great until it is not. Have an issue that is not covered by documentation? Tough Luck buddy!
Yeah Linux is hard, when you are unlucky. I had almost no issues with some Distro's while others drove me insane.
gatornatortater@reddit
Yea... running linux on anything heavily proprietary like laptops, particularly ones like Yogas, is a real pain. Many of those hardware manufacturers actively work against their equipment running with linux. So it only really happens because of stubborn programmers backwards engineering those things in order to make that stuff work. Which often takes a couple years or more after release.
Is it Linux's fault that some hardware manufacturers are like this? Or does it reflect well on linux that the culture has so many willing to make hardware work on linux even though the people that made that hardware are actively working to make it not work on linux?
If you compare it to windows... then yea we get a lot more hardware support than we use to, but still not nearly enough. But compare that to OSX, and when hardware isn't supported for that system they're just out of luck unless someone figures out a way to port over a solution that someone made on linux.
Attair@reddit
Yeah I know that it is not Linux's fault and the community is despite the proprietary drivers still reverse engineering them. My point was that some of the workarounds for these things can be really frustrating. I still enjoy Linux over Windoze but it wasn't as smooth sailing as some have suggested IRL and on the internet.
gatornatortater@reddit
I agree. It is frustrating and I do hold a lot of grief directed towards to these anti-linux companies.
With that said, there is plenty of hardware that works flawlessly and it isn't uncommon for people to be using only that kind of hardware and not having any issues at all with their hardware. With that said, congrats on getting a yoga to work. I had heard that they weren't linux friendly at all.
Tech-Kid-@reddit
People are scared of CLI
Xemptuous@reddit
I was in the same boat: used windows from childhood, found linux a few years back, and wished I did it way sooner. It's definitely "different" and harder for the average PC users, but is actually easier and simpler than Windows if you get into it.
It's not a myth btw; most people don't have the aptitude to use a terminal. Trust me, i've taught many people who still need to keep notepad open to copy paste commands cus they can't memorize it all, no matter how long they use it.
INITMalcanis@reddit
Like you, I was completely surprised how easy it was to switch. I jumped ship back in 2018. I had put aside a holiday weekend so I'd have 3 days to sort out issues, with the basic goal of "get web browsing and media player and EVE Online sorted out" by the Monday evening.
In the event, I was up and running and playing a Steam game on Ubuntu 18.04 in somewhat under an hour. Like yourself I had to look up how to install the Nvidia driver PPA to get the newer driver version, then that was pretty much it, Everything was sorted out by 10:30AM Saturday. Realising how package managers worked was like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIklz5_o3QQ
I parted ways with Ubuntu last year and installed Garuda. That was even more seamless (switching to an AMD video card might have helped here).
Modern user-focused linux distros are easier to install and get working with than Windows IMO.
praetor29@reddit
Capsuleer spotted in the wild! o7
INITMalcanis@reddit
My patience with CCP ran out in 2022 but yeah, that's still a 16 year run :)
praetor29@reddit
That's a lot of years!! Almost since the very beginning
What's your best "I was there" moment?
INITMalcanis@reddit
Oh definitely the first time Pandoralica's "Snatchfleet" concept came together, near the start of INIT's 2016 Syndicate campaign. That heralded 6 months of absolute hilarity and chaos.
praetor29@reddit
Looked it up - sounds hella fun! Thanks for sharing :P
Informal_Bunch_2737@reddit
I love how fast it is to install a new copy of linux and get it running.
I timed it once on my system, 2 minutes to create a live USB, or around 10 to install it properly. Add another 20 minutes for the initial boot up and another 20 minutes for all the updates and you're good to go.
Dpacom01@reddit
In my experience lifetime, I went thur tons of OS and systems. There are times I forgot some worked(unix first then windows second)or get some cmd commands mixed up( like cp/m and linux) But once you use it again it be easier My only headache is the os instalation, and it problems
BestRetroGames@reddit
Most of it is people choosing a distro not suitable for their skill level / needs. Thing inevitably fall apart and they blame 'Linux'. Even those that choose Ubuntu, it is a rough ride as Gnome is very different from what they are used to in Windows. I had that experience in 2014. Last summer I chose Kubuntu and it is amazing, easy, everything plug&play.
Oflameo@reddit
KDE is not very different from what they are used to on Windows, though. I prefer KDE over Gnome.
Sharpman85@reddit
What distro would you suggest for daily use with 10-year-old hardware? Intel wifi, nvidia gpu and a core 2 duo.
BestRetroGames@reddit
I'd go with Kubuntu anyway. I hear KDE Plasma 6 is very easy on the HW. I am actually running Kubuntu and Plasma 6 on a low spec Acer Aspire 5 - Celeron N5100 with UHD630 and it is extremely fast & snappy.
spelmo3@reddit (OP)
Rather just the stark difference of gnome rather than its difficulty. Even still I moved the dock to the bottom. Over time I tried extensions. Quickly had a windows like experience within an hour or two. No terminal or hard work required. Kubuntu uses kde plasma as its DE am.i right? I've never used KDE, I may see of I can install it as a second de to play with
520throwaway@reddit
There is the difficulty part too. A common thread I've seen is picking Kali Linux for their first ever distro. Kali is essentially a cybersecurity toolkit and it's tools are mostly command line based. You can imagine how much fun beginners had with that.
CosmicDevGuy@reddit
Fools. All of them... Backtrack 5 was where my college mates and I started😎
520throwaway@reddit
Oh man thosep were the days. I remember struggling with just getting the fucking thing set up quite often xD
syklemil@reddit
That is kinda wild, really. Is Kali even meant to be used as a daily driver OS?
It's kind of in line with people picking one of the harder programming languages as their first, or deciding to register for a marathon rather than doing C25K. I'm sure it works for some people, and all these things have value, but for a lot of people they're just setting themselves up for failure and then blaming the tool.
520throwaway@reddit
Good question. No it is not. It is a special purpose distro that, like other special purpose distros, you technically can work it as a daily driver, you will bump your head against some bullshit.
sparky8251@reddit
No. In fact, they expressly say not to because to make all those malware dev, reverse engineering, and pentesting tools work well and easily, they turn off a ton of security related stuff.
Banana_Joe85@reddit
That like jumping into a Fighter Jet after playing around with flight sims.
I will never understand people that do this and expect to succeed without investing much time and energy.
I am a Windows convert, and I did pick Mint because it is the distro that was designed for people like me (Cinnamon is similar to Windows UI, virtually no command line need, comes with all stuff you would want to start).
520throwaway@reddit
Its the Dunning Kruger scale at work, mixed with the glamour of being a hacker.
People forget that it's considered a skilled profession for a reason.
EARTHB-24@reddit
I find Ubuntu more convenient thank Kali. Maybe, because I’ve been using it since over a decade.
520throwaway@reddit
That's also because Ubuntu is more convenient than Kali. Ubuntu is built with convenience for the average Joe as the main watchword. Kali is built for cybersecurity professionals, who often prefer building their own convenience via scripting.
EARTHB-24@reddit
😂😂😂 I’m the average Joe.
BestRetroGames@reddit
but... if Mr.Robot can do it, surely anyone can do it :D... apparently not
TeutonJon78@reddit
If you want a UI similar to standard windows, KDE is what you want. Gnome went more the MacOS direction.
BestRetroGames@reddit
As far as I remember Gnome is also pretty limited in customizations 'out of the box'.
Kubuntu uses KDE plasma 6 (as of few days ago). That is the best windows experience that windows every was , is or will be. Extremely easy to transition for somebody who has been using Windows their entire life (which was my case). It even has the 'start menu'. It reminds me a lot of the Windows 7 golden days. No bloat, simply functional.
Banana_Joe85@reddit
Cinnamon (Mint default DE) is similarly cater towards people that used Windows before.
AFAIK KDE is somewhat more demanding in terms of resources, but I was thinking about using it before settling for the the Mint default experience and as I liked it, I did stick with it.
OrseChestnut@reddit
I'm not sure about memory but KDE is very light on the CPU these days - on par with XFCE which is impressive.
I actually moved away from Mint because after an update it started spinning my fans up regularly and KDE didn't. Now don't get me wrong, that may well have been something that was fixed years ago now, or something very specific to my hardware, but KDE's reputation for being heavy is unfounded these days. I think it may have been justified at some point in the past.
NeverComments@reddit
Back in the day I remember KDE’s reputation being related to its GPU requirements. In terms of pushing the envelope on graphics and animation KDE was closer aligned with Gnome than XFCE or MATE, and if you didn’t have a decent GPU then KDE/Gnome were nonstarters.
But yeah, nowadays even low end devices have a GPU with enough horsepower to make it moot.
Banana_Joe85@reddit
Good to know, thank you.
I might give it a try then, if I ever need to reinstall.
spelmo3@reddit (OP)
Yeah it is limited compared to what I heard about KDE. At the time I just wanted something that worked. Il screenshot my DE. It's kinda like a win 11 layout with a few tweaks. But I'm happy with it. I feel like kubuntu will be my next distro of choice. Now I've tried vanilla ubuntu with gnome.
jr735@reddit
u/BestRetroGames is correct. You chose a suitable distribution to start with. While things like Debian are getting better when it comes to install, hardware support can still be a challenge, and something like Ubuntu or Mint is a good starting point.
Sometimes, too, people don't have the patience or wherewithal to either troubleshoot their issues or attempt another distribution. Sometimes, a distribution simply won't readily work for someone, and one needs to move on.
Some simply don't want to learn, or have the wrong attitude. I'm pretty hard on Linus Sebastian and his experience in his Linux Daily Driver series. Ignoring some things that are more or less newbie mistakes, what I cannot ignore is his complaint that he doesn't like how there are several ways to do most things in Linux, that he only wants one way to do things. Sorry, Mr. Sebastian, you don't understand software freedom, and no Linux developer or the coreutils designer gives two flips that it bothers you.
Patriark@reddit
My advice is to try a default Gnome experience for a while. Yes, it is a different logic to Windows, more akin to MacOS, but imho it is more thought out and intuitive user experience, after you unlearn the bad habits from Windows.
Right now I get frustrated when I encounter Windows UX, even if I have more than a decade of use with it as daily driver.
Tovervlag@reddit
I honestly use Windows and Gnome exactly the same. I hit the windows flag and I type the application I want and hit enter.
Fluffy-Bus4822@reddit
Also, it was a lot harder 15 years ago. Linux distros of today are night and day compared to 15 years ago.
I remember having to install flash manually so I can watch YouTube videos. And it wasn't easy. Now you can watch YouTube videos even before your OS is installed, with the live boot device. You can watch YouTube videos while installing your OS.
Almost no games worked, and most of the ones that did required a lot of tinkering to get working. Now most games work. I don't even check compatibility anymore before buying. I just assume it will work. Only ones that don't are some FPS games with specific anticheat.
You could forget about using bluetooth headphones. Now any bluetooth headphones are plug and play.
bsbsjajbsjcbsbbss@reddit
Absolutely agree, as someone who likes to imagine themselves as an experienced linux user I daily drive Ubuntu mate. I used to use arch, not anymore.
DragonOfTartarus@reddit
Are you suggesting that beginners shouldn't be trying to install gentoo?
BestRetroGames@reddit
If it suits their use case, sure, if they just want to chill and watch movies.. maybe not :D
Banana_Joe85@reddit
I hate Gnome with a passion.
As someone who did grow up with Windows, I never got used to it. My company uses Ubuntu and the first thing I did was install Cinnamon on it.
Works like a charm and makes it similar to use like my private Mint installation.
BestRetroGames@reddit
I hate Apple , iOS and MacOS with a passion. So whenever someone says 'Hey, Gnome is very good, it is Apple like'. I am like 'Just get your sh**t and go, now' :D
Banana_Joe85@reddit
The last time I had to work with a Mac was during school and the time when their mouse only had one button and was round.
I think this was during the PowerPC Age and pre-flatscreens and stuff.
I hated it and have since avoided Macs like the plague (also, as someone who did PC stuff to game on them, Mac is and was the wrong ecosystem for me).
I know about the studies that say that the Mac UX is more intuitive, but I guess in my case that train has long left the station.
BestRetroGames@reddit
That was my first job, stuck on the transparent CRT apple with a mouse that had a single button. I've never felt more depressed in my life as I did at that job. That Mac (forever crashing) had a big part of that. Everything was 10x harder to accomplish than on my Windows at home at the time. Of course I left as soon as I could.
InstantCoder@reddit
It also depends on which hardware you're using. A lot of issues also arise with using incompatible hardware, which is either too old or too new for the kernel.
And beginners don't even know that drivers are all installed by default with the kernel and they don't know what to do when a hardware is not installed properly. And most distros, don't give any feedback when this is the case. I only found this very basic and essential feature on Linux Mint (maybe also on Ubuntu). This hardware overview app is probably one of the most essential feature that needs to be provided with every distro. On Windows this is by default available, you can see all your hardware and with which drivers they are installed.
RaptorPudding11@reddit
I don't know what kind of black magic Kubuntu uses but I've had a really good run of good luck with drivers with that distro. I bought a new AX210 Triband Wifi card, installed it my laptop and Windows 11 needed drivers downloaded to get it to work. I switched over to Kubuntu in grub and bam the card was working and there was no issue with wifi drivers at all. I have to give it to their team, they are amazing.
Add to that, the "Windows-like" interface and I've just stuck with their distros. I just wish Discover was a little better, it can be quite difficult to search for programs using that app manager.
BestRetroGames@reddit
I don't like talking about it as Kubuntu doesn't deserve it but I did struggle with the WiFi driver when I installed it for the first time in 23.04. That was my only bad experience with it. I had to manually uninstall the generic wifi driver for my card to start working. This was a relatively new laptop, but still about a year old and already covered in the Linux kernel that it had. It took me few hours to figure it out and fix it but other than that it has been smooth sailing.
I think it comes down to good na proper testing by the Kubuntu team and playing it somewhat safe. They didn't put Plasma 6 until few days ago.
omniuni@reddit
You're also done at least one thing different: you actually took a few minutes to do some research and try solutions before declaring things unsurpassable problems.
spelmo3@reddit (OP)
This is what infuriates me. Because its not like windows suffers with hitches and flaws just the same.
omniuni@reddit
People often forget that 1) computers come with Windows pre-installed, so most people never have to do the setup, and 2) the only reason Windows' problems seem "less bad" is because they've grown up with them and therefore already know how to go about fixing them.
ScreenwritingJourney@reddit
And the lack of software is a massive issue that means Windows and macOS will remain as popular as they are for the foreseeable future. Most people do not have the time, patience and energy to switch software. And the software available on Linux is often a worse version, not necessarily due to Linux but rather a lack of development incentives.
Discord cannot do reliable screen sharing with audio on Linux. That alone makes it unusable for me as I often need to share my screen and audio with friends. I looked for solutions and decided they were far too much effort.
I run Windows on PC, mac on laptop, Linux in a VM on PC for a couple pieces of software (ie Immich) and I’m happy for now.
PrussianPrince1@reddit
For the Discord screen sharing issues on Linux, have you looked into Vesktop? It's an alternative client that has worked well for me.
Technically it's against Discord's TOS to use a non-official client, but I imagine it's unlikely for them to ban users who do.
Separate_Paper_1412@reddit
No. People time and time again want discord to work on Linux the same way it does on windows. That's something that can only be fixed by discord themselves, when they update their electron version.
PrussianPrince1@reddit
I mean, it looks like the official app, it just functions better.
It's also very convenient to install because there's a flatpak for it, so it should work on basically anything with flatpak support.
The only issues here, from what I can tell, are the fact that it's technically not the official client, and most people don't know about it (a discoverability issue).
ScreenwritingJourney@reddit
Isn’t Vesktop just a Firefox wrapper? Does it support screen sharing and audio on GNOME Wayland?
PrussianPrince1@reddit
I used Vesktop on Plasma Wayland, and screen sharing with audio worked fine. I don't see why it wouldn't on GNOME Wayland.
It does a lot of things I believe, it's not just a wrapper.
ScreenwritingJourney@reddit
GNOME and Plasma’s Wayland implementations aren’t 1:1
PrussianPrince1@reddit
Sure, but most likely it should work. Things that work on one tend to work on the other. Give it a go and see if it works for you, there is no other way to be sure.
ScreenwritingJourney@reddit
Giving it a go would mean reinstalling Linux, which I don’t have time for right this second. I’ll remember for the future though. Right now, like I said to someone else, Windows does the job of “gaming and running Sheepit” fine, and that’s all it has to do.
PrussianPrince1@reddit
Fair, I also currently don't have Linux installed, only Windows. Will eventually reinstall Linux though, probably Fedora with GNOME this time.
ScreenwritingJourney@reddit
That’s a decent choice. I might go the Mint route if I reinstall Linux. Apt/dpkg is my preferred package manager but Debian proper is a pain to install and Ubuntu’s insistence on Snap is a pain. Or maybe Pop once they’re done with COSMIC and have time to update to a new version of LTS. They’re behind. By a lot.
Sleepy_Chipmunk@reddit
My Discord is fine with screen sharing, but it bugs out if my computer goes on suspend when it’s open. It’ll freeze up and I have to close and reopen it.
omniuni@reddit
I haven't had screen sharing issues with Discord in years. I'd actually say I have less issues on Linux than Windows.
BrianEK1@reddit
For screen sharing on Discord, I use Vesktop (Custom client with its own automatic installer, then it just behaves like regular discord, although custom keybinds don't work) and before that I used the web version to stream content.
ScreenwritingJourney@reddit
Someone else mentioned Vesktop too. So I’ll ask the same questions:
Isn’t that just a Chromium/Firefox wrapper?
Does audio actually work in the share, in GNOME Wayland?
BrianEK1@reddit
I'm not sure about the first, it behaves closer to the desktop client rather than the web client aside from keybinds in my experience though.
And as for the second, yeah I also use gnome on Wayland and it works perfectly fine.
ScreenwritingJourney@reddit
So the audio works, as in other people can hear the content you’re streaming? Because that was the issue I had.
BrianEK1@reddit
Yea 👍
ScreenwritingJourney@reddit
Huh.
Well, maybe the next time Windows pisses me off badly enough I’ll give it a shot.
Cannot stress enough that my current setup works perfectly fine.
OptionalHippo@reddit
First: I don't think windows users pretend that windows has no flaws. But most windows users know them and know how to handle them. On Linux, you have different issues. And people hate change. You could say the same about people switching from linux to windows.
Secondly: Fixing issues on windows can usually be done with the GUI. Fixing issues on Linux often requires the terminal. I think working with the terminal for non-IT people is not so easy, even if they just have to copy paste stuff. Then there is a lib missing. Now you need to work with the package manager. You need to know about sudo in some cases.
I would also argue, that getting help on linux issues online as a non-english speaker is more difficult than getting help on windows issues.
Separate_Paper_1412@reddit
The terminal is scary when you aren't used to it. Rm -rf / is a short command.
Banana_Joe85@reddit
This is something that I had to actually learn:
You do not perceive something that you know the solution for as a problem anymore.
I was doing a lot of tech support for friend and family and was surprised by some of the problems they encountered, as I automatically avoided them in the first place or defaulted to workarounds and solutions that they did not know and thus could not use, until I did show them.
This can be very basic stuff or very complex and this is where experience comes into play, as well as something I like to call 'public knowledge'.
Stuff that everyone more or less knows because they did hear about it, as it was mentioned rather frequently or did reach mainstream media at some point.
shinra528@reddit
And it’s ok for people to not want to do that.
Informal_Bunch_2737@reddit
Thats one of the things I love about linux. How easy it is to diagnose issues.
Anything not working? Just run it in terminal and see what its complaining about. Google that exact dependency and install it. Problem solved. Much better than windows method of not telling you the problem and only giving a generic error code.
Lithmariel@reddit
Because many years ago it was a pile of command lines to get anything to work. That stuck around.
De_Clan_C@reddit
My first experinece was on a chromebook I had bought for school. I liked the experience over all because I wasn't scared to mess with things, and because it was basically a debian 9 vm I could download whatever program from whatever tutorial and when I messed up the system I could delete it all and restart. But I still had the base system that worked reliably for when I needed to get schoolwork done.
Around the same time I wanted to try a real linux distro, so I isntalled ubuntu on a crappy all-in-one that could barely run windows. This worked fine, and I learned how to use gimp and audacity and things, but I didn't really tinker with things. I liked ubuntu for a while, until I updated to a newer version and it did this weird partial upgrade (???) and the system broke.
When I was coming into college I bought an old optiplex 9010 with windows, and I just used that for a little while, and it worked well, so I didn't want to change. This all changed a few years later when I heard about the windows 10 EOL. I knew in that moment that I needed to get off windows. I tested out a few different distros on my laptop so I could still use my PC for school while I was figuring out what I wanted to use. I first tried Arch with kde, because I had heard good things. It was a good, however, I decided against it when I couldn't find a driver for my home printer, and I knew if I wanted to use it for school, I would need to be able to print.
I then looked into fedora. I'm still not sure what made me want to try it, but I'm glad I did because fedora with gnome has been the best experience I've ever had. I've had minimal issues, and when bugs do arise the maintainers are quick at getting things updated, and they are patched out withing a few days. It was the first time I purely enjoyed using my PC. A lot of people hate on gnome, but I've loved the workflow and how it just gets out of my way. I've had to use windows more recently, and I've found myself forgetting what I was doing trying to look for an app icon or miss clicking. I've loved gnome because it's conducive to focused app switching. I just hold super and scroll until I see the screen I need, no more second guessing what icon to click on, just getting stuff done.
Rekkeni@reddit
I've been using Linux on my Steam Deck for almost a year and on my desktop for over six months. Occasionally, if I'm not willing to make compromises and want to do more than just browse the web and play casual games, I find it quite challenging.
On Gnome, I can't use my media key, and to this day, I haven't found a solution. Similarly, the "\^" key doesn't work in Guild Wars 2, and I've yet to find a fix for that either.
In OBS on Bazzite, I can't record with AV1 because it causes extreme stuttering, and on Nobara, recording with AV1 results in screen tearing and skipped frames.
On KDE, I can't use the Picture in Picture feature in my browser while gaming because, even when I set the window to be always on top, it doesn't stay on top when I play games.
The list goes on; every day, there's something that doesn't work, and it's difficult to find solutions that apply to my distro. The documentation often assumes prior knowledge, not explaining how to perform tasks like editing a specific config file whose location is not named because it's assumed you know where it is. Sometimes, there's simply no solution, and I have to accept that some things just aren't possible.
It would be easy if all I wanted to do was browse the web and play casual games, but because I want more from my PC, it's much harder for me than Windows, and not just because Linux is different. Android is also different from iOS, and Windows is different from Mac.
Most of the time, Windows keeps things simple and intuitive, which is why I can switch to macOS without problems, just as I could switch from Android to iOS.
That's why the Steam Deck is so great; Valve has put a lot of effort into streamlining the entire Steam Deck experience to make everything more user-friendly.
Constant-Might521@reddit
On Windows you can fix most problems by clicking around and reinstalling some stuff, on Linux you quickly reach a point where you have to resort to command line.
That's the big difference and it doesn't feel like Linux has made much advances here over the last 25 years, since there still isn't a single Linux GUI to do this stuff. Every DE and distro does their own thing and it never covers everything.
redrooster1525@reddit
Don't underestimate your willingness to spend time to learn. It is what helped you throughout the transition. However that powerful will came after you had been thoroughly fed up with windows in a way you weren't back in those win98 days. Which is why you didn't give Linux a try sooner.
PickleTortureEnjoyer@reddit
Bruh… It took you 3 days to get Ubuntu set up?
First of all — were you deploying an entire fleet??? It should not be taking you 3 days to get Ubuntu set up.
Secondly — it took you 3 days, and yet you wonder why your average Windows user finds Linux difficult to use? My dude. Take off your penguin shaped glasses because the answer is right in front of you.
spelmo3@reddit (OP)
Haha, I should of actually been more precise. So probably spent about 2-3 hours a night. Over 3 days. Night one I just backed up files wiped the drives reinstalled. Basically got it up and running day 2 was driver issues and installing software I use. Day 3 was futher tweaks and researching how to do stuff.
Work and kids dude. I don't get too much time to sit and tinker how'd I'd like.
PickleTortureEnjoyer@reddit
That sounds more reasonable!
And I guess it makes more sense given that you were also tweaking the desktop a bit more than your average user.
Still, though — even half that is wayyy more time than your average Windows user would care to devote to simply making their machine useable.
spelmo3@reddit (OP)
Yeah true. Tbh I went into with very limited use of linux. Never used the terminal in my life. Other than in chrome os. Didn't know how linux filesystems work. First time ever using gnome. There was alot of what does this do. Snaps, what are these. Learning that snaps arent very good for some applications such as steam. Trial and error. It was more google searching and researching rather than it being "hard"
TweeBierAUB@reddit
Most people just buy a windows laptop and never reinstall or change anything too low level. You had to debug bios problems and Google your way around two driver issues. The average pc user just isn't used to doing that, and a lot of them wouldn't have been able to solve it.
I have used Linux almost exclusively for ~15 years, but it's undeniable that it requires a little more fiddling and computer knowledge. I wouldnt say it's 'hard' to use, but it's definitely a lot less beginner friendly. Most people just want a machine that works, browse a little and read some emails. They dont want to have to understand the implications of the nouveau open-source drivers or the proprietary Nvidia blobs, x11 or Wayland, what compositor would work best with their setup, etc. They dont give a damn they just want to watch their YouTube videos.
Also you have to keep in mind linux has come a long way. 10 years ago it was way worse. I remember installing ubuntu, but my ethernet was working because of driver issues. So I had to download the drivers on a second pc and transfer them via USB first. Or running an apt get upgrade and not having a display because the Nvidia drivers fucked something up. Back then game support was also nonexistant. You could maybe run some 5-10 year old games with wine, but dont expect the multiplayer or sound to work out of the box or at all tbh. Endless list of issues, and back then online help was more sparse or convoluted as well. Gaming support on linux is really great now, still has some limitations but its getting to a point where you can realistically just skip that one game that doesny work properly vs only playing that one game that does work. A lot of the 'it's hard stigma stems from a different time.
AdRich6905@reddit
im like a year in, run mine from live usbs and have multiple for different lab setups, i love linux, its the best thing to ever happen to the expansion of this field.
Leerv474@reddit
You just don't know the average pc user who doesn't care about any configuration. The average user doesn't even know how to install windows to begin with. Let alone trying to solve drivers problem on linux.
AvgGuy100@reddit
Any of that right there puts the typical user off. You’re not the typical user
Separate_Paper_1412@reddit
Something else that puts the typical user off, is having to install their own OS. They would much rather buy a Chromebook or a Mac than install Linux on their existing computer.
Wonderbird-5367@reddit
Linux is much better and run on old pcs. but today's game developers aiming to develop their games for Windows users.
remic_0726@reddit
Linux is easy to use if you don't ask it to do anything special, and just click the installer buttons. But if you want more advanced use, that's where the difficulty appears, and frankly, during my long life as a computer scientist, the hassles have been numerous. But windows isn't much better in some aspects, only mac os is really easy to use.
Aggravating-World164@reddit
You made the arguements as to why Linux will remain barely 3% of OS's in use. The glitches, driver issues, incompatiability will keep 95% of users away and on Windows. Windows is plug and play for all it's annoyances, it still doss better than Linux. Asking Linux people for their opinion is like asking do you like to breathe because we have to breathe whether you like it or not.
PersimmonHot9732@reddit
I just don't get it. Linux Mint
sharkscott@reddit
Linux is not hard to use, maybe it used to be but not anymore. I have only ever used the command line because I wanted too, not because I had too. Linux has run smooth as silk on every computer I have ever owned.
Specialist_Leg_4474@reddit
It goes back 20+ years, when it was "sort of" true...
thatsanoob@reddit
II think the biggest point was the initial approach: you jumped to a new OS knowing it won't be perfect and that you'll require time both to learn new things and to relearn some others.
People complaining about linux usability are often one between:
1 - the software they need is not available on linux and alternatives won't do in their case
2 - expect a seamless transition between the desktop OS they've been using their whole life and the OS that has historically been kinda bad as a desktop
gatornatortater@reddit
I think many of the people we are referring to here would have struggled just as much if they had switched to OSX.
Perhaps they would have blamed themselves for that, though... since everyone says OSX is easy... but since many call linux "hard", these people find it easier to blame linux rather than their own noob ignorance.
Zoo-Recover-7446@reddit
Linux is fucking impossible to use, the way I do it :D
groundhogcow@reddit
Windows was revolutionary because instead of learning how to do things they gave everyone pretty pictures they could click on.
Linux was still working in a smaller space had been using the command line for far longer. As more people entered the computer world they could understand prity pictures and didn't know command line options.
Linux then made prity pictures. Now it's all pretty pictures.
gatornatortater@reddit
That was Apple OS that revolutionized that concept. Windows just copied it.
genxxgen@reddit
/Within 3 days I had my system set up./
Fair enough, but with Windows, i can get a new system setup in like 3 hours.
gatornatortater@reddit
Would be able to do it that quickly if you had never used or installed Windows before and didn't know anything about it?
stormdelta@reddit
Yeah - I'm usually the person who sets up Windows for people these days and the majority of the time is just waiting for Windows Update and software to install (I use winget to simplify installation). Even the tweaks I do to Win11 to make it less sucky are minimal effort - just make sure to install with local account, install ExplorerPatcher and a specific safe debloat script I keep handy.
z-el__@reddit
Hard to use if you don’t like to read
WhoIsSidi@reddit
Because in the past couple of years, it became significantly easier to use thanks to Steam giving us Proton for gaming and distros starting to finally realize what desktop users want.
But like you said, it took you three days to setup your PC. Most people don't care enough about their PC to have to research shit like creating a bootable USB, turning off Secure Boot in UEFI, finding out which hardware and software doesn't work, trying to pick one out of hundreds of distros, etc. You had a goal of switching over to Linux because of Windows 11 issues; most people don't have Windows 11 issues and don't care enough to switch over. Of course people are going to think it's difficult if they already had their perfect setup and find out they have to change their workflow.
They just want to get their work done or plug-and-play a video game. No matter how easy the installation process is for Linux, there is always a transition cost associated with moving over that most people don't care to make if, at the end of the day, the result is exactly the same: a computer the works.
gatornatortater@reddit
I think there are plenty of people who do have windows 11 issues. However most of them subconsciously consider the idea of having to learn something new to be a much bigger issue.
I'm referring to the kind of people we see who "tried" to switch but failed after a couple hours and complain about how "hard" linux is. Nobody would expect windows to be that easy to learn from the beginning. Yet, linux is blamed for not being a lot easier than windows... or at least... not identical. Clearly that isn't the real reason for not switching.
CanadianBuddha@reddit
I've noticed that a lot of casual personal computer users don't really understand how to use their current OS whether that is Windows or Mac. So, of course, those users have a hard time switching to ANY other OS because small changes in how something looks or is placed is very confusing to them even if that thing essentially works very similarly to the equivalent thing in their current OS.
Whereas power users who understand how to use their OS and apps, I think have an easier time switching to a different OS, because they know the equivalent functions are probably their and will find them and will be less confused by differences in appearance or placement.
So, for the casual users, if they are willing to switch to a different OS, I suggest a dramatically simpler OS like Chrome OS, Android, or iPadOS rather than a Linux distribution.
perkited@reddit
I remember reading an article a few years ago where college professors were noticing that STEM students didn't even understand the concept of a computer folder. I think the mobile revolution has certainly helped with a lot of accessibility issues, but hiding all the underlying complexity had also caused a lack of some core understanding (that was just part of using a computer in the past).
gatornatortater@reddit
And I wouldn't consider the concept of a "folder" as "underlying complexity".
I think this raises the bigger issue of what happened to intro to computers education. Comments like your own and conversations when friends in IT seem to suggest that it doesn't really exist any more.
Recipe-Jaded@reddit
because it's different than what most people are used to. I think it's easier after using it for so long
gatornatortater@reddit
And they are often subconsciously comparing their comfort level with a new to them linux to the comfort level of a windows or OSX that they have been using for years and have slowly been learning ever since... instead of comparing it to what their ability was with windows when first starting.
It is inherently unrealistic. But it is common. And most people do not seem to be aware that they are doing that.
Poverty_welder@reddit
It is hard to use. Just because you can do it. Doesn't mean anyone else could do it as easily as you find it.
gatornatortater@reddit
It is hard to learn any new OS, but once you've gotten use to it, it isn't typically hard to use.
Sometimes people who are new to linux are comparing their ability with it at that specific time rather than comparing their skills to what they were when they first started out on windows or whatever they are coming from.
we_come_at_night@reddit
~Why do you think people assume linux is some fiddly pain in the arse system only tech heads can use? Is it the sheer amount of distros. People scared to do things different to windows?
tbh, I'd say it's a remnant of old times. What we experienced linux users tend to forget is that nowadays we do not need to do everything by manually editing config files in a terminal and whatnot, installing and setting things up is way easier than windows :)
gatornatortater@reddit
yep. Here's a story to illustrate your point. On another post yesterday, a fellow linux user in an effort to give easy directions to a new user on how to run an appimage listed off the chmod command.
I followed up with an explanation of how to do it with "right click, properties, permissions, allow execution box" in the file manager and he didn't even know you could do that. And that functionality has been around for a few years now.
Not faulting him. Why bother learning the "easy" way when you've been using the "hard" way for so long that it is just as easy for you?
sinfaen@reddit
It's when things break, or aren't compatible.
Upgraded to Linux mint 22, and VLC broke on playing back some dvds with pipewire. I'm getting low level errors about audio sampling rates being too low, but nothing I'm searching is giving me something reasonable to work with. All of this info is what I'm getting from the terminal.
Celluloid is also breaking for me with errors that, based on reading these github issues, should be fixed with my version. No clue there. Possibly related to kde connect.
I'm happy to deal with this, but my wife absolutely does not care for this.
gatornatortater@reddit
When you have problems like that with windows, typically you just reinstall the OS. .... Still a good solution.
Even more.. since ubuntu version upgrades can often be dicey. Particularly when there are big changes in backends... like pulse to pipewire. Just works better with a fresh install.
rust_rebel@reddit
i dunno, most peoppe dont bat an eye when they switch on their smart tv.
its all about the packaging / distrobution really.
Unfairstone@reddit
5 years ago people couldn't get AI to guide them through even the craziest of installations
is_this_temporary@reddit
Remember that the average user experience for Windows is buying a laptop, turning it on, and going through initial account creation and some MS BS.
That's not a statement about what is "better" or "easier", it's a statement intended to put things in perspective.
Druidavenger@reddit
Linux is trying hard to become more "average user friendly" which includes me btw. Though I don't believe it to be a huge success to brag about right now, it's leaps and bounds ahead of even a short time ago. And friendly enough if you have a basic understanding of Linux and computers. And many of the wheels I've run in to even 6 months ago are fixed.
I personally think it's biggest continued successes are in revitalizing computers that are not state of the art. It's a great way to start. Read up on your chosen distro and your computer and have fun with it.
mglyptostroboides@reddit
Because there's a vocal subset of the Linux community for whom the fact that they use Linux is the most interesting thing about them. These guys really want you to know that they use Linux and they want you to know just how difficult it supposedly is to use. In my experience, the myth that Linux is hard is kept alive mostly by them.
stormdelta@reddit
I seem to have the exact opposite experience.
I see threads like this full of people insisting that Linux is trivial for even laypeople to use now, and every single time pretty much any distro I try will guaranteed end up requiring quite a bit of my Linux knowledge to get setup and working correctly.
I think there's a survivor bias at play here - the people who found Linux relatively easy to setup are the ones who stick around the most.
There's also a lot of underestimating how tech savvy someone actually is, OP is a prime example here. Spending three days to setup a new system is well beyond what the typical layperson is going to put up with, and it's hard to blame them.
I do sometimes run into people who exaggerate the difficulty of getting Linux setup, sure, but it's mostly Arch users, and a lot of that difficulty is self-inflicted because Arch is a mess.
Inside-Comedian-364@reddit
Imo people should stop recommending arch for gamers trying to move to Linux. Want something solid and rolling just go with fedora. Want something solid just roll with Ubuntu LTS.
But even fedora is iffy for newcomers
stormdelta@reddit
Honestly Arch needs to be recommended way less in general without a mountain of caveats. Package stability is abysmal even for a rolling release distro, and the Arch wiki is rarely updated consistently to reflect changes in how things work making it unreliable.
And then when you inevitably run into problems, the community's default response is to blame the user.
leonderbaertige_II@reddit
Eh, send them directly to gentoo, those worthy will survive. /s
kdlt@reddit
And you've already lost 98% of Windows users.
I always love these threads because it's always a searching game of which outlandish thing will be normal this time, when you want to speak to people that ask you if you left click or right click for the 11 billionth time.
stormdelta@reddit
No kidding. It bugs me so much that sometimes I install distros and document every issue I run into just to prove the point.
AvgGuy100@reddit
Yep
stormdelta@reddit
It's not a myth that it's much harder to setup and keep running than Windows; just because you didn't run into more significant issues doesn't mean they don't happen, and even just what you ran into is beyond the average layperson to fix.
Don't mistake you being lucky with all your hardware largely working out of the box or with simple tweaks means that that's always the case, in fact it often isn't especially with newer hardware.
Even with distros that should handle things well, they don't always. E.g. I was testing Fedora 40 earlier this year, and here's the issues I ran into with the video drivers alone:
Proprietary driver did not show in GUI store after enabling. Attempting to install through CLI would be confusing to most that haven't used fedora before as there's dozens of packages with that keyword, including multiple that look related to drivers.
Installing even the correct driver package does NOT blacklist the opensource nouveau driver. There is no hint of this anywhere. Nor does it run
dracutto regenerate the initrd.The default config doesn't set critical nvidia module options required for the driver to work properly in Wayland
Most of these would've been nightmares to google if you aren't very experienced in Linux, because you wouldn't even know that most of those were things, let alone things you might need to change or how to change them, and some would've given you outdated answers (dracut is a relatively new replacement for mkinitcpio).
This was not an isolated incident, most distros require even more than this to get working on newer hardware unless you're lucky. And that's not getting into other aspects where there might not even be a good solution.
Next_Information_933@reddit
Try Linux 10 years ago…lmao completely different ball game.
jaykayenn@reddit
The comparison is usually made between years of experience with one, and 3 minutes with the other.
N0Name117@reddit
Mind you, this goes both ways with some of the complaints I see about Windows on this sub that could be fixed within about 5 minutes of your first Google Search.
Scout339v2@reddit
Ding ding ding
BigHeadTonyT@reddit
Years...or decades. Since they were a child. You put them in front of DOS, they would struggle even more I bet. But some of us were raised on that. It's a bit like knowing how to ride a bicycle and thinking you can ride a motorcycle with same expertise or ease within 30 minutes. Not a fair expectation. And a lot of people aren't that great on a bicycle either.
jaykayenn@reddit
Nice analogy.
CosmicEmotion@reddit
Most of these people want a Windows without the fluff. They want a constant 0 learning non-curve. They don't want a new OS, they want what they were using without the annoyances.
And of course Linux is definitely not Windows. So they give up and think that it's Linux's fault that it's just different.
Things have improved a lot in the past few years since Proton came out in 2018 so you see a lot more people actually staying with Linux. Fear not, for we will rule the world! :)
Scout339v2@reddit
Its quite fascinating really, almost everything else in tech is Unix based except windows. Mac, linux, android, iOS, most online servers, printers, and so many more run the Unix subsystem. Windows is damn near the only thing left that isnt Unix based.
I feel like for a bunch of low-level compatibility that Windows days are numbered because of it.
Just something that bounces around my brain from time to time, thats all.
Beautiful_Crab6670@reddit
Exactly this. Nobody is willing to learn new things, but to find things equal that is already known.
In other words, back duck syndrome.
spelmo3@reddit (OP)
Basically that's all I wanted. But with any os, Theres quirks and differences. I didn't wanna learn I just wanted a usable machine. Coming to any different os is going to require some basic research. And some basic learning. Most of what I've learned is, either googling how to do x. Or asking other linux users how to do y.
Banana_Joe85@reddit
Linux Mint might be what you are looking for.
Designed to just work. Not the flashiest Linux out there, but pragmatic and designed to work with as little hassle as possible. I had only good experiences with it when introducing others to it.
It even comes in different flavors, but the default desktop environment basically looks like a classic Windows start menu and you need no command line experience to work with it.
Banana_Joe85@reddit
There are distributions that are designed for people who want to switch from Windows like Mint.
I had family members getting annoyed by Windows 11 and Microsofts nagging and annoyances that decided to switch over to Linux and I recommended Mint for them and they are very happy with it.
They even said that it reminds them of the good old Windows 7 days before the enshitification started.
They were already familiar with Firefox, Thunderbird and Libre Office because I had introduced those to them years ago, so they could just keep using the programs they used before. They even found out that their old printer worked better with Linux now, as it was acting up with Windows 10 and 11.
bigrealaccount@reddit
Because it's not a myth. I've used multiple linux distros, ubuntu, fedora, mint, endeavour and then finally i've made my own arch setup (btw).
Linux is way harder and more convulted to use. You are not going to get anywhere without reading a lengthy arch wiki page at some point. This simply almost never happens in Windows. I can't remember the last time installing a driver on Windows gave me any issues. Linux? Good luck having a tech illiterate person setup GPU drivers, bluetooth and sound drivers while having it be as easy and convenient as windows.
Linux and windows have their own uses, and that's fine. But let's not pretend like Linux is as convenient as windows lmao.
Legituser_0101@reddit
My first experience was 2009-10 I believe with Ubuntu and it was cool but went back to Windows due to the inexperienced computer knowledge. Years later when I had a better understanding of computers and operating systems I tried Linux again in 2016 and been using it ever since.
FullKawaiiBatard@reddit
Most people are already scared of Windows because they are not interested in anything IT related. They are forced to use computers to do work or personal tasks they despise.
You do not understand this because you've always been into IT and want to know more about it. This is is a specific mindset which often leads us to be more interested in any subject or domain, wanting to understand how something works. We are passionate about it. People who aren't into IT often will only care about their personal work or hobbies, but mostly anything non-IT related because that's just "work" stuff to them; or they'll leave it to you, the professional. They will not go into stuff like we do, and it's fine. We're all different with our skills, and that's how we get to build infrastructures for them to use, or help them when they don't know what a navigator is, despite them playing games on Facebook.
yukeake@reddit
"Hard" means different things, but usually when it comes to a different OS, it really means "I don't want to learn something new".
There's definitely a stigma that "typing a command is hard", but "navigating 4 levels of menus, three different tabs, then scrolling through a list of checkboxes and buttons is easy". In reality, it can be faster and easier to use a CLI than a GUI in some circumstances. It requires a bit of knowledge about what to type, though, and folks can be annoyingly stubborn about learning new things.
Then there's the "difficulty" of navigating an interface that isn't what you're used to. For a lot of folks, if it doesn't look exactly like Windows, it's "hard". Again, people can be stubborn when it comes to learning.
Things aren't in the same places. They're organized differently. There's usually a logic to them, though it may not be the one you're used to. Problem is, many folks don't learn concepts - they learn rote tasks. Choose this. Click here. When those landmarks aren't there, they're completely lost.
That's not a good feeling, and neither is knowing that you don't know. So rather than acknowledging that, accepting it, and seeking the answer, they instead complain that it's "hard". What they really mean is "It's not what I'm used to, and I'm not interested in learning how it works". Usually followed by "I JUST want to do $thing!"
The reality of the situation is that even if the new OS were to put a big, colorful button right in front of them that says "Do $thing", they'd still complain.
They don't want to learn. They don't want to figure something out. They want everything exactly as they expect it to be, and to function exactly as they expect it to. This is why they don't read error messages. The message may tell them exactly what they need to do, but they don't read it because it's outside the process they know.
They learned Windows because it was put in front of them and they were told they needed to use it. They weren't given a choice. But now that they bit their tongue and learned the bare minimum required to do $thing - "Click here. Choose that." - they close themselves off to learning anything else.
So the bottom line is they need to want it. Enough to overcome that inertia that's telling them to be stubborn and complain and not put in the effort to learn. That's different things to different people. We all have our reasons, but they aren't us.
Longjumping_Soft4214@reddit
I love Linux, the distributions, and the open source community, but the font rendering on KDE or GNOME is so bad to my sensitive eyes!
dvisorxtra@reddit
Simply put: Most people don't like to read, also self-centered.
ansgardemon@reddit
A couple reasons.
First: Linux used to be way more complicated than it is today. Windows wasn't that much different, but people really didn't feel like learning a new hard thing just because. Nowadays things are way more streamlined, but the desire for that started way back when, specially with apple computers.
Second: Research. We are used to searching things on our our, but that's not the case for the average Joe. The Average Joe can't install a printer on Windows, let alone finding out by themselves how to use the terminal, which by itself is something that pushes new users away.
Third: they're used to Windows, so if things don't work like Windows, they don't know what to do and they won't research it. I'm sure many of us have downloaded a Tar.Gz file for the first time in our lives and thought "what the hell do i do with this thing?" Now imagine the average Joe.
Fourth: People use applications, not operating systems. A operating system is meant to be out of the way. Linux to this day requires quite a few setting ups, while Windows is mostly streamlined.
AnnieBruce@reddit
Its a lot easier than ita reputation suggests, but there are still issues here and there.
At least we dont have to compile our kernel amd hand edit X config files unless youre actually doing something odd.
Stabbara@reddit
I use bazzitte and life is incredibly easy
Danny_el_619@reddit
It is not a myth. Some distros are really not hard but in general linux requires a bit more effort sometimes and that's a barrier for people that just want to use the computer rather than learn just a bit more.
In this 2 paragraphs you just summarize why people see linux as hard.
In my experience, you've done more than the average user is willing to learn and spend time on. That's a huge barrier that makes linux hard in the eyes of most users.
_AIR200@reddit
I installed Mint XFCE in one of my stereotypical non-tech-savvy friend's Laptop this year after he botched his windows 7 installation. Just added themes, extensions, and icon packs, setup steam etc etc etc and told him to use the software manager to install apps. And voila, he now thinks that he is using a exotic version of windows.
DFS_0019287@reddit
Linux is very, very easy to use. My late Mom used it, and she was as non-technical as they come. Same with my brother-in-law.
The key is that I set it up for them and configured it. That's the hardest part. Once it's installed and up and running, I don't think it's any harder than Windows for the average non-technical user.
(I installed Debian 12 with XFCE for them.)
I do have a nit to pick, though. Modern GUI apps (Windows, Mac OS and Linux) are not designed for older people in mind who might not have the best vision or eye/hand coordination. My Mom would often bork her Thunderbird setup because she'd accidentally hide a toolbar or rearrange things.
IMO, all GUI apps should have a setting called "DON'T FUCK WITH THIS" that prevents any changes to toolbars, menus, etc. unless the setting is turned off again, and turning it off should be hidden under some menus. That way, I could set things up the way people like, and then stop them from accidentally changing the setup.
mamigove@reddit
Basicamente tu experiencia es la normal cuando se pasa a Linux, buscar cosas en google, aprender como funciona cada cosa, probar varias distribuciones, es la forma de desenvolverse hasta aprender, casi cualquiera puede hacerlo, solo ahora donde la hegemonía de Windows le lleva a hacer cosas muy evidentes de perdida de privacidad, de obligar a usuarios a tener que sufrir la publicidad en su propio ordenador, abandonando a miles de usuarios dejando desactualizados miles de ordenadores a la caza de troyanos, virus y ransomware porque la gente no puede comprar ordenadores mas potentes y sigue usando WinXP, Win7 y ahora Win10, obligarlos a alimentar a su inteligencia artificial, etc, cosas que evidencian que es solo un negocio, los usuario son sus ratones de laboratorio, es cuando la gente llega un punto a hartarse de seguir siendo prisionero de un entorno hostil y se atreve a pasarse a Linux, no es simple hacerse a Linux lleva un tiempo de aprendizaje y esfuerzo, pero creo que vale la pena, y claro que la gente experta en tecnología lo usa, son pocos los que no y generalmente es porque su empresa lo obliga a trabajar en Windows o porque la herramienta que le da de comer esta en Windows.
ChocolateDonut36@reddit
linux is not hard to use (depending on what distro you're using), Linux is different, and for people who install their programs with an installer downloaded from softonic and probably installing McAfee in the process, installing programs trough an app store seems really hard. and maybe those "Linux users changing their wallpaper" memes helps people to think Linux is hard to use. also, every pre assembled computer comes with windows (except a few ones with Ubuntu or mint), and most people doesn't know how or don't want to install another OS.
zackzuse@reddit
I DONT LIKE CHANGE
uptimefordays@reddit
Most people don’t understand operating system concepts—so the change in UI is a major hurdle. But conceptually you have file systems, users, permissions, processes, and so on it’s all the same as any other OS.
crazedizzled@reddit
Because it used to be. Things didn't used to just work out of the box, and took a considerable amount of fucking with. Especially on like laptops, trying to get track pads and wifi working was a huge pain.
sarlol00@reddit
Eh, I don't know, for sure linux (and windows too) got easier in the last few years but windows had the same issues with track pads and wifi.
crazedizzled@reddit
Huh? No they didn't. They came bundled with OEM drivers.
mira_sjifr@reddit
i also didnt have any experience with linux, and after using popOS for a week i switched to arch. Maybe im just lucky, but i have been completly fine with it and almost everything i want is easy to find on google. Compared to windows, its all MUCH easier for me, i can just type some commands in and it works instead of just clicking trough endless menus
Hot_Paint3851@reddit
i mean ubuntu is easy tho
Interesting-Ad1803@reddit
I don't find Linux difficult to use at all. It's due, however, to some people who want the whole point-and-click UI experience for everything like you get with Windows and MacOS.
Since I started using Unix systems long ago, before UIs were even a thing, I find Linux to be simple and easy and very much like Unix.
shinra528@reddit
You answer your own question in your own post. It took you 3 days to get your system up and running. People like you or I might find that a fun challenge to overcome but most people would classify taking 3 days of troubleshooting to get a computer up and running “hard”.
Flashy_Mongoose_8772@reddit
For a month or 2, my mom on her personal computer has been using Linux Mint because I honestly don't know how she managed to so awfully fail the process of making her own Windows account. Like, if she was just going to use the same password anyway, she should've just had me create her Windows account. Yes, that's the kind of person who's working at R&D for corporate.
vulvelion@reddit
Windows and Linux do not really compete on the same field, so its fully dependent on particular use-case.
Xijit@reddit
Two problems with Linux are (A) poor documentation combined with 3rd party programs, with equally poor documentation (I.E. I never heard of a flat pack before getting my Steam Deck & I still don't know what they are, despite following guides to 3rd party launchers working), and (B) notoriously hostile community members being abstractly belligerent to people trying to adapt to Linux, even in supposed Linux support groups you will see/experience self righteous community moderators (both office & self appointed) shout down and belittle users who are trying to understand basic operations that are foreign to Windows natives.
Informal_Bunch_2737@reddit
My only problem with linux is the support groups. They are universally both useless, and infuriating. I've straight up blocked AskUbuntu because fuck all of them. I've NEVER seen a question answered succinctly or even quickly/easily. Just the same BS regurgitated by people that barely know what they're doing.
met365784@reddit
It is a little harder to use compared to windows, and my list is based on windows users transitioning to Linux. People are use to downloading an installer, clicking a bunch of times, and the program just works, no worries about the extra programs installed with it, the spyware, or permissions, because, well it can access everything. Now there is a bigger push to use the store and use apps. Linux, you have appimages, flatpak, snaps, repositories. Typically the extra repositories, are not installed by default, this requires extra steps that some people have trouble doing. Flatpaks, appimages can be difficult for some to set permissions on, or if it doesn’t create a shortcut in the start menu they get lost trying to run it.
Next is permissions, and this is where there are the most problems. By default, windows allows everything, to do what ever it wants. Linux you have control over read write execute given to owner, group, all. People coming from a windows background, often have issues with the whole permissions thing. Especially when mounting a drive as root, and then accessing it as their user. Often times instead of fixing the issue, they will just jump aboard the set permissions to 777 and continue on, instead of configuring it properly. The command line is more difficult on Linux than it is on windows, but that comes down to the capabilities of each one. Windows, since it is so underpowered, and windows doesn’t really want you to use it, you can basically watch a single video and learn everything about the windows command line. Linux on the other hand, it has so much more to offer, as such, requires you to dedicate some time to truly understand it. Now obviously working from the terminal isn’t a requirement, but with all the power it offers, why wouldn’t you?
The way directory’s are laid out and used, is not necessarily apparent to new users, and requires a little research to actually learn. This is in stark contrast to windows who basically just wants to through everything in program files.
Linux also can be considered harder to use, in the fact it will allow you to break your system. Add an extra hard drive to fstab, without the nofail option, well your system isn’t going to boot if the drive fails. There are multiple things you can do to break your system, but it is easy to recover from. I actually encourage people to use their systems, and not to be afraid to break it.
Beyond that as long as the user is willing to educate themselves a bit, Linux offers a better user experience, more flexibility, a better set of tools, better printer experience, heck, just having a tree dir instead of drive letters should be a driving force behind making the switch.
SandySnob@reddit
as a considerable newbie to linux ( 6-7 months of experience tops) the thing which I hate is the setup time to make it look like how you want to look and then installation of your favourite apps after you are setup then it's a breeze but I remember it took me around 4 days to fully setup my mint and around 7-8 days on and off to finally setup my fedora (jumping between KDE and xfce).But yup I wish there was MS Office and other stuff for linux then I would switch my new laptop also to fedora or something similar maybe OpenSUSE or Debian
Informal_Bunch_2737@reddit
Exact reason I used the remaster function in my MX Linux. Makes a live USB of your running system. If you ever have any issues, just boot from that USB and you have a running copy to install/fix from.
spelmo3@reddit (OP)
There's libre office. For a more msoffice experience there's only office, then you can also go the pwa route with Google docs and office 365. I find I use only office when I'm required to work with ms documents. And it's very modern office like. I tend to just use Google docs for Any non work personal documents
cocainagrif@reddit
it sounds like Linux chose you, bro.
rayjaymor85@reddit
I think it depends on your use cases.
I do a lot of programming and web development, so Linux is not only quite capable, if anything it's vastly superior than Windows. Docker "just works" and before I was across Docker, setting up LAMP environments was way easier than under Windows.
Now, on the other hand, if you're a doctor that needs to use specific practice management software... Linux becomes a wee bit more problematic.
The other issue frankly is that most casual users don't actually have any real gripes with Windows.
It does the job they need it to do, and they already know how to use it. Even with a relatively fast learning curve these days, there is very little incentive for non-technical people to even bother with Linux.
Granted this may change with Windows 10 EOL coming along if people don't want to replace their older hardware though.
zoechi@reddit
Try to get WiFi to work when there is no driver for your computer included in the distribution and then tell again about your beginner experience. I think Linux is at least a million times better than Windows, and often it's even much easier, but it's also super easy to run into something super difficult without any prior warning.
chrono_ark@reddit
Been using only Linux for probably ~2.5 years now as a gamer
A very non trivial number of times working stuff has just broken, or not worked to begin with when it should have and required fixing to get it to work
Ignoring this aspect of it is just dumb and would make people get blindsided by it and subsequently hate Linux
Seshpenguin@reddit
People have made some good points here, like poor/confusing distro choice, expecting no effort, etc.
One thing that worth mentioning though is how much work people have put into getting Linux where it is today. A lot of the Linux hard myth is rooted in historical reality, things used to be a lot worse in terms of stability and usability. The past 5 or so years have had a lot of big shifts in the desktop linux tech stack.
goodbyclunky@reddit
This is very true and worthwhile to remind ourselves of. I switched some 10 years ago and still wish I had switched earlier 😂 But back then it was only Ubuntu who made that possible for me as a Windows user and total Linux newb. That's what I don't like to shit on Ubuntu even though I have moved on since for reasons. People who shit on Ubuntu for their poor choices are not wrong, but they forget that Ubuntu helped many of us to be in the position to now make choices for ourselves leading us away from it.
If you think about the progress in user-friendliness achieved in the last 10 years and project that into the future, man, in 10 years Linux is going to blow every other OS straight out of the water. For me and many it does already now, but in 10 years it will do so for many more people.
EARTHB-24@reddit
You just need to understand FHS. Things will get easier beyond that, automatically.
soulless_ape@reddit
Setup was more involved in the 90s. Nowadays, it is just as easy to use out of the box as Mac OS. Windows is more involved after a fresh install.
PeksyTiger@reddit
Because it used to be a pain in the ass (for example to install gpu drivers) not that long ago, and there a still things that don't work 100% ootb. It's a reputation built over years, you don't clear it in a year of being ok-ish.
Sethjustseth@reddit
It's because I remember using Red hat and such in the late 90s. That early impression largely stuck with Linux for many. There was always a lot of tinkering and forced terminal use which the general population wouldn't be able to do. It's so much better today, but I find myself having to use terminal way more on my Raspberry OS than command prompt on my Windows machine.
mWo12@reddit
Compared to what? I literally don't know how to use windows. Its simply to difficult for me, e.g why would I need to go to any website to download a software? Why can't I change a desktop environment to something descent?
toxiclck@reddit
How are you gonna say linux is easy and in the first phrase, you had issues that the average bloke does not want to deal with?
The whole discussion as always been about mass adoption, give it to a karen, a grandpa or a 10 year old and they'll figure it out and manage to do whatever they want with minimal hiccups.
That just doesn't happen with linux and we're far from that point, we might even never get there. I don't care how easy it was for you, that's not the point.
spelmo3@reddit (OP)
That was a self inflicted issue. I had to enable tpm2 and tweak secure boot and other features when I upgraded to win 11 previously.. I forgot about it when I decided to install ubuntu. Other than that it was 2 minor driver issues. Which took all but 10 -15 mins each to fix. If you skip the step of me fucking about to upgrade to 11. I most likely wouldn't have had an issue.
I'm sure windows has driver issues crop up time to time on a custom machine... I've experienced numerous over the years.
The discussion isn't about mass adoption. That's a topic in its self. I'm just talking about the perception both online and people I speak to that all think linux is hard to use day to day. Generally as an OS. It's different, and takes a little bit of adaption and some trsearching. But it's pretty simple to use.
I'm just sharing my experience as a typical end user (even though im abit more tech savvy) Not looking at the bigger picture of the global linux market share.
Banana_Joe85@reddit
First, there is no 'Linux'.
At least not like there is Windows.
Different distributions are vastly different in how they approach the user experience. I use Linux Mint and in my Family I have had people switch over to it with zero issues after getting annoyed with Microsoft.
Then again, even Mint comes in different flavors, but the default desktop environment 'Cinnamon' is very similar to how Windows worked up until Win10, so people switching over will feel instantly at home.
You can also use it without ever touching the command line, so very beginner friendly.
Choosing the right distribution is the absolute key to your experience. And while Distros like Mint are sometimes belittled by some, they are fully capable and as potent as any other Distro, just with an easier entry bar and a more casual friendly experience and pragmatic choices for the user, compared to other distributions.
Sneezing7992@reddit
As someone that has used Linux off and on since the early 2000's, it hasn't always been so easy.
Plus in my opinion, Linux can still be a challenge to work with depending on which distro you choose or what you try to do with of. Some configuration still requires cryptic Terminal commands and config editing. Hell, just choosing a distro can be daunting for someone just jumping in.
nevermille@reddit
I think linux is easier to use today thanks to Gnome Software/KDE Discover. The only things I think are difficult for newbies are: * Gnome Desktop, I think KDE should be more visible for new users, especially those who come from windows * Distro installers, a simple mode as simple as Windows' should help new users. I find the one on Fedora confusing when you don't know how Linux works
Wild_Penguin82@reddit
Well, I think your text itself kind of answewrs the question why there is a myth. For some people, Linux genuinely is more difficult, but for some people, it's the other way around. A lot of the time it's a mix of misconceptions and unmet expectations, which all get people to blame Linux. Let me explain;
Some people are computer-illiterate. Genuinely, if you are not willing to read and can not use a search engine, then better stick to Windows or OS X. If you are a gamer to the heart, I would even go further and kindly ask to stick to gaming consoles. Sorry, this sounds harsh (and probably is), but this is the reality. Choose a device and OS which suites you and your usage patterns or adapt. For the more computer-illiterate people, Linux can actually be "easier" in a sense; it doesn't step on your toes and is easier (faster, less work) to maintain as a PC (yet alone for anything server-oriented!).
Expecting things to work similarly or identically as in Windows. Some things will always be different (if they weren't, there's no point having another OS to begin with).
Things do not support Linux. I.e. proprietary software target mainly Windows (sometimes OS X), games and especially anti-cheat does not work in Linux. Some hardware manufacturers do not support Linux and do not write drivers. In the eyes of the user, it's "Linux problem" while - in principle at least - it's the other way around. But this was already in your OP (at least "in between the lines"). I'm not sayying the users are necessarily wrong here, though, but really they should be pointing the finger at the software houses and manufacturers, as if someone can fix the situation, it's them.
Heterogeneity. In Windows (and OS X) there is single platform, single desktop environment, and single (or few) library versions floating around. Things like GTK applications breaking in weird ways when used in QT desktops (or vice versa), file associations, poor integration into the desktop will be there as long as there are no single point of standardization, which I don't see happening soon. But this also brings up more versatiliy and choice for the users, and it is also the price they pay.
Less polished UIs in general.
I should add about ease of usability, that for someone who can not maintain (a Windows) computer for themself, it is much easier for another person to maintain a Linux desktop. But also, Windows (and OS X) UI start to become more and more polluted by corporate decisions such as ramming (non-functional) search and ads on the user in recent iterations. They are also polluted by unneeded upgrade popups etc; so perhaps a little (or less?) counter-intuitively, a Linux desktop might be easier to use for the elderly (bad eyesight, diminishing cognitive functions, memory etc.) and other similar user segments.
Also, a bit counter-intuitively, a command line might be easier to learn for a child than a GUI. It does always the same thing, while a GUI is always changing and depends heavbily on the context.
sCeege@reddit
The best explanation I've seen for this is that Linux is great for people that are not very good with computers, or very good with computers, but it sucks at the people in the middle. For your workload, which seems pretty simplistic, it doesn't matter if the OS is Windows or not. ChromeOS probably works just as well.
Yeah, except that some of the most popular multi-player games requires kernel level anti-cheat... idk if you've noticed but there's actually other people in the world that aren't you. For them, this is a Linux issue, they're not here to split hairs on who's issue it is, they're here to blow off steam after they get home from work, they don't care to know why EAC or Vanguard won't support Linux, but they do know if they just stick to Windows, they won't have to think about it.
Is Linux hard? Probably not, but going against the flow is always going to have friction. Not everyone wants to use their computer as a form of learning, they just want to do the actual thing they logged in for, and since most of the worlds software is written for computers people buy pre assembled, it's going to be for Windows or MacOS.
hugthispanda@reddit
Collectively the market has spent trillions of dollars on software solutions requiring absolutely zero knowledge of the terminal. Most paying users don't want to learn how to use the terminal and are willing to pay not to do so. Not a single command. That's why big tech companies can afford their high salaries.
ScepticMatt@reddit
For the average user, it should be possible to easily adjust any major setting without ever opening the command line. I don't think that's currently the case. To be fair, Windows 11 fails with this too by splitting different settings accross different UIs and/or hiding it in the policy or registry editor.
deavidsedice@reddit
You made me remember when I installed Linux for the first time. Around 2005 - don't remember exactly. I didn't had internet just yet, or just got it, can't recall. Had a CD of Debian Woody 3.0; and proceeded with the text installer. When everything was done the computer rebooted, and started Debian... and I got dropped into the console. No graphic UI at all. Why? No idea, didn't know what to do.
Then I got a LiveCD of Knoppix, one of the first to do Live CDs I think. And booted it, it worked... from there I learned how to install it on disk.
Knoppix was then my system for a long while. I got internet and I learned iptables, made the computer into a router/switch that shared the internet connection with the other computer.
Later I got a CD of Debian Sarge 3.1; don't remember if I downloaded that myself, probably I did. I tried to install that one and thankfully dropped me into a Gnome desktop this time. I think my GPU was a weird one, so maybe that's why Woody didn't like it, or maybe it's because X11 at the time needed manual tweaking.
Since then I've been running Debian. And of course none of the windows applications or games were running there. Wine existed, but it only ran some apps to some extent. I remember we got an old Photoshop running under Wine.
For years, all I played were the FOSS games included in Debian. Until quite recently. Now my steam library has over 200 games LOL.
PsneakyPseudonym@reddit
Something's changed in the last couple of years, I realised only a couple of weeks ago that this is the first year I've not used Windows or Mac OS on a personal machine and haven't needed to. My own personal year of the Linux Desktop I guess.
BoltLayman@reddit
BEcause some users don't have enough critical thinking and assessment skills to figure out which OS they need.
Or just not that tech inspired people who really need Windows to make their way through the digital age/era.
Never lose the thought that someone may just bake donuts for 100s of people on the street thus making money for living. So forget about linux, when you have your live small business,
spelmo3@reddit (OP)
I don't work in IT at all, albeit I'm somewhat tech savvy. I do work as a self employed landscape gardener. So I do get where your coming from
Also happy cake day!!
opsfactoryau@reddit
I’m just editing a video on this very topic.
It’s quite easy to get into to. I would argue it’s harder to use than Windows in some regards, but for the most part a lot is taken care of for the end user.
Creepy_Tax_3759@reddit
I moved to two months ago to popos with cosmic DE, had a lot of issues with screen freezing and after some time I can only use the app I am currently using. I thought it was a problem with cosmic being on alpha, so I switched to Ubuntu and I get the same problem, I tried different solutions I found online but still the same problem. Yesterday I tried elementaryos and again the same problem. It seems there's some issue with the Nvidia GPU that's on my laptop. So because of this I will have to go back to shitty windows. I am probably gonna buy another laptop that doesn't have Nvidia GPU and install a Linux distro on it.
KernelTale@reddit
I have "old" Nvidia GPU and it worked out of the box on my Linux Mint X11 but I've managed to somehow completely break Wayland on a day old installation of Debian.
spelmo3@reddit (OP)
For awhile from what I researched wayland has issues with nvidia. Not sure what the latest news on i is as I went the amd route. But X11 runs fine
spelmo3@reddit (OP)
I also had the same issue. I think I went back to driver version 535. I'm with amd now. Tbh no issues at all.
Creepy_Tax_3759@reddit
I installed the latest drivers, 550. Can you check if the 535 driver is the one that works for you ?
spelmo3@reddit (OP)
Yeh it was 535. It was an older 1050ti and the newer drivers caused a good few issues. I know some people have issues with wayland and nvidia in general. I think I was on version 545 or 555/550 when I did my fresh install. I had to uninstall and reinstall the drivers from nvidias repo rather than the ubuntu repo if I remember. I had the option in the nvid x server settings to then select 535.
zorael@reddit
Yes. Nvidia can be made to work but it's an uphill experience, especially so if you use Wayland.
pizza_lover53@reddit
Hey bud, I'm sure you already know--Linux is just the kernel. The ease of 'Linux' comes from the distribution you've chosen to run. I will tell ya, 'Linux' without GRUB, x11/wayland, pipewire/pulseaudio, systemd, utilities provided by the free software foundation, desktop environments, package managers, etc. is a bit trickier to use! Not too long ago, all of this was kind of a pain in the ass
momoajay@reddit
its not that its hard, its that it is slightly different to windows in terms of workflow and needs time to get used to it.
Also almost everyone is trained on windows/macos from early on where as linux is something people learn much later. that is how it has been for me anyways.
mark-haus@reddit
I think you’re coming into this with the right mindset but most people are not going to. It seems to me you expected to have to adapt. Meanwhile most people think that Linux should copy the workflows they got used to in windows land which frankly suck and exist because they have to have strict controls over how you interact with the kernel
_-Kr4t0s-_@reddit
Most of that Myth came from the 90s when it was actually true. Early Linux had a pretty high learning curve and most people back then had zero experience with technology.
ElMachoGrande@reddit
Linux allows you to do complicated stuff, and some people don't understand that it is optional. If you just want a simple "web, mail, office, media, games" device, things just work.
xoriatis71@reddit
Most people don’t really have the patience to understand documentation, so Linux seems insurmountable to them. I recently installed Arch while only having used Fedora before, which is pretty much a zero-configuration distro to get things working, meaning I didn’t really know a lot about how Linux functions under the hood before proceeding with the Arch installation. Goes to show that Googling stuff and carefully reading documentation goes a long way.
robberviet@reddit
You are a capable users, who can do your own research and solve problems. Most users cannot do that.
erwan@reddit
People trying Linux for the first time are often Windows power users. Linux is different, so their Windows knowledge isn't that useful and it feels hard.
On the other hand, casual users don't even think about using Linux. But if they get a Linux instead of Windows (for example installed by a relative) it's not harder than Windows for them.
Kungs0@reddit
If the task involves web surfing, then any OS with a graphical user interface should not pose any difficulties. Some people don’t even know which os is installed on their computer. When I was in school, even the teachers’ computers were running user-friendly Debian-based distributions, so I don’t think anyone is fundamentally afraid to use a system that mentions the Linux kernel in its name.
There are very few real reasons to use a Linux-based OS on a home computer. Typically, it is installed on web servers and is necessary for those studying or working in the digital field.
Then there are people who install Debian, add MS Edge to it, and then claim that their data is now more secure 😁
spelmo3@reddit (OP)
😂 the installs linux but with edge/chrome comment tickles me.
Oerthling@reddit
My first experience was RH Halloween on a big stack of CDs.
At that time I was just dabbling.
First actual use (ignoring some Informix server Unix) was early Ubuntu 18 (?) years ago.
At that time it was semi -simple. Getting wifi working could still get difficult and anything more exotic hardware-wise was a major challenge. Getting games to run involved hours of detective work on wine-hq and googling comments on various other sites.
Nowadays, you're absolutely right, desktop Linux (using an well supported GUI distro) being hard to use is a myth.
At least for most regular users. Users mostly exist in browsers anyway. And to that kind of user the OS is just a driver layer for the browser and an icon to start it. Which is pretty much the same on all platforms (click browser icon, browser starts).
A bit of email program here and a bit of simple office use there and that's mostly it. And that's all dead easy on something like Ubuntu or Mint.
Even gaming became dead easy if you're on Steam anyway. Sure you can't play every game that comes out - the works-out-of-the-box selection is vast. And most games that don't work on first click are "fixed" by copying a startup line from protondb - where you can check beforehand whether a game works well or not.
It's the hardcore competitive gamers who worry about every FPS and any random new game with anti -cheat who still run into real problems.
And it's power users that either need Photoshop or advanced functions from MS Office (and where the online office.com isn't good enough) that can't readily switch to Linux with little worries.
Most of the time it's click and start - like everywhere else and you don't ever have to open a terminal.
People will post "sudo apt install whatever", but that's just simpler to type than to guide people through the UI of Software center of their particular distro and version.
And when we get to people needing help with obscure hardware or other unusual circumstances - let's not forget that the same kind of questions exist for all platforms.
But when such a question appears on a Windows forum it's business as usual, if it's posted on a Linux forum it's fix-this-right-now or I'm back to Windows - which is perceived as the default fallback, even though it's not working perfectly all the time either (plus gets anti-user features in purpose and not just because q volunteer didn't yet work on it).
520throwaway@reddit
The Linux of today is a far, far cry from the Linux of 10, 20, even 5 years ago. 20 years ago, the push for an actual focus on user experience was just about starting with the initial releases of Ubuntu.
DeifniteProfessional@reddit
Linux based operating systems have gained a lot of traction in the personal computer space over the past few years, and as such, the amount of work going into development of software, drivers, UI, compatibility layers like Proton and WINE has gone up. Not just from open source contributions, but also closed source software products that are continuously being compiled for various Linux distros. If Microsoft continues to cause headaches for people who are on the fence about switching from Windows, Linux will only continue to gain market share and increase stability
Reckless_Waifu@reddit
It's quite easy for anyone willing to learn a bit and do some basic troubleshooting... Which is the main problem.
No-Purple6360@reddit
Debian Stable from Day 1 (2023) with MATE. I always prefer a lightweight DE over Gnome or KDE plasma.
but_you_did_die@reddit
I haven't used MS Windows for over 10 years now. I think I would be lost as a mouse working with windows 11 now ..
extremepayne@reddit
It used to be legitimately harder. Both driver support and the desktop environment have come a long way in past decades. I think part of it is people not updating their conception of desktop linux’s noob-friendliness as things improved
OkNewspaper6271@reddit
The scary black box
OkNewspaper6271@reddit
Most people see Linux as just this monolithic mess where to do anything you need the terminal
nightblackdragon@reddit
Linux is not hard to use, Linux is hard to use productively in some cases. If your hardware is well supported and software you need works on Linux - everything is alright, if your hardware support is not very good and/or software you need doesn't work on Linux - it won't provide good experience.
Mughi1138@reddit
Well... as someone who had to install Windows 95 fresh on many machines I found Red Hat (not RHEL) 3 easier to install new, and even had better support for hardware like CD-ROMs than Windows did. So if someone bought a machine with the OS pre-installed at the factory *maybe* it was easier, but since '96 Linux has been a viable option.
Valve has really helped on the gaming front, with their version of WINE really benefiting people all over.
I remember a while back (maybe 10 years now), our middle son found that on our AMD based "for school" computer ended up running all his compatible games *better* under Linux than it did under windows and became a Linux convert.
Before that at work we'd do lunch-time "network load testing" with things like Q3A and I found that although my Linux system (like the 3rd of our dev team that used Linux on identical hardware as the Windows guys) would start with a slightly lower frame-rate than the Window guys, as soon as the action started and the rocket launchers started going crazy the Windows people would see huge performance drops while the Linux boxes kept steady and out performed.
The main point: Microsoft was a huge company illegally leveraging its monopoly to sow fear, uncertainty, and doubt (FUD) about Linux.
Then... you can enter the entire world of Open Source, and things get REALLY interesting.
earthman34@reddit
Hard to use? No. Hard to use productively? Depends.
zylad@reddit
I installed Linux for the first time in ‘98 and win98 was the last windows I ever used on my desktop. Back in the day when Google wasn’t around and Linux installer required from user much more than niw it was hard (setting up your X server to render any graphics wasn’t exactly a breeze too). I work with Linux professionally too. Now it is much easier. Where I think it is still hard is when things go sideways sometimes better system comprehension helps a lot.