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MonumentalArchaic@reddit

What are you talking about? You can own guns in the Netherlands for hunting. Get a hunting license and hunt once a year and then you can own a rifle.

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Traditional-Leopard7@reddit

A modern crossbow is incredibly intimidating when pointed. Even unloaded. Also incredibly lethal when loaded. Unfortunately takes longer to reload of course.

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Adol214@reddit

Second crossbow over bow.

Bow is a superior weapon for many reason. Mostly because faster.

But for defending a home: cross bow.

Easy to shoot even if you don't know about it. Your can keep it ready to fire without effort, so you can keep someone under supervison for a long time, let's say during a discussion.

And cross bow have higher penetration force on short range.

Agree about the speed factor, but few archer are able to shoot fast with a minimal accuracy. I would argue that if someone charged your from 10m distance, you will shoot only once regardless of the weapon. And that touching a moving target after 10m is tricky even for a skilled shooter.

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The_Burnt_Bee_Smith@reddit

I mean, you only get one shot. If you're too weak to draw back quick enough, you better not miss

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Adol214@reddit

Fast shooting with a bow is a skill which is rarely practiced. At least not in my area, as people shoot for sport, not hunting.

The technic is different. You typically hold your arrow in your bow hand. With practice you can shoot every few seconds. Also you don't have to fully draw the bow if you are in close quarters.

Once again, bow is better, but require skills not everyone have the time or dedication to get.

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The_Burnt_Bee_Smith@reddit

I was talking about crossbows, takes longer to reload than a bow

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Adol214@reddit

Sorry. I read too fast. Indeed crossbow is slower.

Regardless, I don't know if I could shoot twice on a charging aggressor from 10m using a bow.

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The_Burnt_Bee_Smith@reddit

Shoot once and grab the axe!

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TIL you can cut a rope with an arrow if you have the right arrow head.

Yeah bro haven’t you ever played Zelda?

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zultan_chivay@reddit

Good post. I use both vertical and cross bows. The vert bow has a much longer learning curve.

The cobra adder is a 5 to 7 round repeating crossbow that is plenty fast to reload and it's easy to learn. Good for close quarters and can quickly be reloaded with a clip. I put a NV monocle on mine. I wouldn't exactly want to fight a rifleman with it, but you could do worse. Especially at night

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This is why it's important to put level up skill points into crossbows...

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RealTeaToe@reddit

I've been doing that. It's tough as a 110-115LB dude drawing my 160LB crossbow.

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mmmmpisghetti@reddit

I know nothing about crossbows outside of D&D, but that sounds like a Big Damn Crossbow.

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KitsuneKas@reddit

Crossbows can easily go into the multiple hundreds of pounds of draw weights, especially medieval crossbows that were much less efficient. Some historical windlass crossbows could exceed 1000 lbs of draw force. And I'm not talking about mounted siege weapons/ballistae either. They didn't actually produce that much projectile energy because the stiffness of the metal limbs wouldn't allow for an efficient release, but you get the point.

Modern compound hunting crossbows generally fall within the 350-550 lb range. An 160lb bow is geared toward faster, easier loading for primarily target use, potentially self defense, but crossbows are generally not designed or marketed for that purpose these days.

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mmmmpisghetti@reddit

TIL some cool things about crossbows! Thanks!

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RealTeaToe@reddit

It's not even a big damn crossbow! It's quite average size for a below-average size person. It probably looks like a big ass crossbow when I hold it though 🤣 until you realize it's just a short ass dude holding it.

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phantumjosh@reddit

A bow is very quick to reload, very accurate (there’s a reason we have 3D competitions).

I would be more scared breaking into a house with someone pointing a bow at me than a gun. (The bow users are more likely to be accurate)

Hitting moving targets isn’t as hard as you think it is, and after firing you have a long range club, or you drop your bow and finish them off with a knife/bat/sword.

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Adol214@reddit

Agree.

It is just more difficult than a cross bow.

If you know how to use a bow. Take the bow.

If you have to hand over something to your untrained SO, pick the crossbow.

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phantumjosh@reddit

Exactly

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Eryeahmaybeok@reddit

Arrows don't need to be shot to be a short range weapon jabbing motion

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Adol214@reddit

Google "ham knifes"

It is basically a one edge short sword. blade around 30cm/12" long.

I pick that over a carbon arrows any day.

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agent_flounder@reddit

😳 I had no idea. Lol one of the ones listed is made to look like a Japanese sword. Hmm.

I was just imagining being questioned by police:

“Sir, you’re saying that you don’t keep the ham knife as a weapon?”

“Yes, I was going to use it to carve my ham tonight, there’s one I. The trunk!”

“Yeah, we found the ham. It’s 6 months expired and rancid.”

“🤷‍♂️”

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Terrato37@reddit

Can I shoot the ham knife out of my crossbow?

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Adol214@reddit

Worth trying....

You seem knowledgeable, so remember the lastest beginner which show up at your range....

In my experience, it take hours before they consistently hit the 10m target.

But I am fairly confident anyone with 15-30min training at the crossbow could hit a target.

I dont have much experience training novice with good crossbow, so I may be wrong here.

Anyhow, my main point was than shooting a crossbow is simpler for people without training or weak.

While I agree the number you gave are close to typical value, theses are not hard limit. Nor am I sur how they are relevant to the conversation.

I made a crossbow once. You can make it as weak as you want. It is not difficult to find tradicional bow pulling 40lbs. It was not uncommon for historical bow to be over 120lbs. Some historical crossbow go over 800lbs.

About the strength of bow vs crossbow, it is often misunderstood. Pull strength is not all that matter. Projectile weight is important. As well as other factors.

Here are two very good video if you want to educate yourself on the topic.

Bow vs crossbow theory https://youtu.be/dO_8ZQ37D4Y?feature=shared

Ted workshop 160lbs bow vs 860lbs crossbow practical test https://youtu.be/1w8yHeF4KRk?feature=shared

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Fit_Acanthisitta_475@reddit

That’s problem Nowdays, people got offended for now reason. Theory and practices make huge difference. The average crossbow is hard to hold and shoot than a rifle, and much hard harder to shot accurately.

Average people can’t even draw the 40lb bow, that why people need start with 20lb. But both as lethal with good arrows head.

Nowdays Nobody can draw those 120lb bows.

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IGnuGnat@reddit

lol

there is a bolt called the "gobbler guillotine" it's basically a set of small razor sharpened spinning helicopter blades

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lil__squeaky@reddit

you have to be able to cock the crossbow, a weak person can’t do that.

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Adol214@reddit

Correct. But they can shoot it.

For arming the cross bow, some mechanisms exist. But they are super slow.

Which is why historically, cross bow where mostly used for defending fortified position, ambush, and against armored soldiers.

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lil__squeaky@reddit

you know a pretty good setup would be a crossbow with a crank cocker, my dad has one so he can still take advantage of bow season. the thing is super easy to crank a child could do it.

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Peace_Hopeful@reddit

You can also make a crossbow out of a 2x4 with just a crappy ofla knife and hack saw. The better the tools and materials the better the bow naturally

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Adol214@reddit

https://youtu.be/wWiZpenRGx8?feature=shared

threewhitelights@reddit

A physically weak person isn't prepped for anything. I'd argue that's a bigger concern than what weapon to use.

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Adol214@reddit

Let me elaborate.

Many people cannot get fit to the point of pulling a heavy bow or lifting a lot of weight. Kids, elderly, people with health issue, arthritis, etc.

Compensate for these limitations IS prepping.

Also, you won't be at the top of your game during crises.

Picking a weapon anyone in your household can use easly is relevant.

Sames goes for fire arm by the way. If only you can fire your shotgun because of it weight or recoil, that is an issue.

Also, you need to be trained to handle a weapon. Cross bow training is faster and easier than bow. You could train a new joiner quickly. (Ofc your household should be trained in advance).

One example I like is the manual operation of air filter for bunker. It is quite easy and require little strength. A 7yr old can do it. (At least the model I had access to)

This is important, you cannot be the only one which can use some pieces of equipment.

But of course, being in good health is an important part of prepping. Just understand this has limits.

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JASHIKO_@reddit

They are usually banned with firearms so rarely an option as a substitute.

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Remarkable-Opening69@reddit

WHEN SHTF laws go out the window. Grab the AR.

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JASHIKO_@reddit

Pretty much impossible in most parts of the world.
Laws or no laws.

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ee-5e-ae-fb-f6-3c@reddit

People with access to a machine shop can manufacture most parts. Even barrels are doable. Back when the Internet was still fun, some guy famously made an AK receiver out of an old shovel. Others have melted aluminum cans, and manufactured AR-15 lower receivers for funsies.

Basically, with access to tools, materials, and some knowledge, you can make your own guns. Do it enough, and you can refine your designs to be reliable.

Whether or not it's worth it to build up the tool set, skills, and materials is another matter, but it's not out of reach in most countries.

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JASHIKO_@reddit

You've still got to get bullets which are just as regulated as guns in most places. Though it's probably a bit easier to convince someone to sell you a few on the side as bullets aren't linked yo your name just sale restricted.

But I do agree with your logic especially the tool set but its quite a bit of a commitment.

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ee-5e-ae-fb-f6-3c@reddit

There are certainly other barriers, and it's not like here where I can just get a case of ammunition shipped to my doorstep. I haven't looked into manufacturing brass casings, but precise dimensions are pretty important. Existing casings can be reloaded. Primers would probably be the most difficult things to manufacture, though you can reload existing primers. Smokeless powder can be manufactured, though I wouldn't want to do it, as I enjoy having all my fingers. Bullets themselves can be cast relatively easily. Doing all of that, and producing ammunition in any meaningful quantity sounds tedious. I can't see myself every having the patience for it.

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jammin_jalapeno27@reddit

You can get a semi auto rifle. The FGC9 MK2 was created just for you. You just need a 3D printer and VPN. You can also create ammo by reloading it yourself. The weapon was created by a guy in Germany and a decentralized team specially for countries with tight gun regulations, and it’s designed to be impossible to regulate. People have even made it in Japan. It’ll take a few days to make the weapon and cost maybe $500 USD. You’ll have to research how to get the right parts and ammo components.

ee-5e-ae-fb-f6-3c@reddit

There is no real reason for anyone to own a crossbow

My fondest memories are of my grandfather carving the Christmas ham with his beloved crossbow. A sacred family tradition.

I find that hard to believe, too.

Didn't you see the wire?

Powder actuated. 27 calibre, full auto, no kickback, nail throwing mayhem.

https://youtu.be/JDpvkwBBu6U?si=e5IbVuh_ci9ZTsaO

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Fun-Brilliant2909@reddit

I agree. Go lightweight. I carry a few nails and a regular hammer with me. I can nail (pun intended) the light switch from across the room. Once, I took down some flies that were bothering me. I'm not saying it's for everyone, but a little practice and anyone can scare away an intruder with a simple nail and hammer.

Lol. 🤣 😂 😹

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tiranamisu@reddit

Gas powered nail gun ;)

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Upnorthwest12@reddit

Battery nail gun

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YesAndAlsoThat@reddit

Perhaps run it off an hpa paintball tank with a pressure regulator? No idea how much air is used with each shot though

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I'm in Canada and you can get firearms with difficulty. It's also expensive to practice shooting, which is 100% skill based.

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A drywallers hammer is functionally the same as a dull hatchet; just sharpen. Roofing hammer works too, but needs more sharpening. Both are entirely legal (every DIY handy man *should* own one anyway) Just make sure you train to use it. (both ways) A weapon without training is more dangerous to the weilder than the opponent.

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this_guy_here_says@reddit

At that point, just buy a hatchet...

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Alternative-Tear5796@reddit

what about to carry in public? as a felon it's already illegal to own all weapons, for a non violent offense and most being victimless drug 'crimes'. I hate the government, & the prohibition smfh. But this is good advice. especially when you can say it's a tool.

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Adol214@reddit

In my area, tools could be considered weapon.

Left to the officer stopping you to decide.

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ChIck3n115@reddit

A nice pointed sharpshooter shovel is pretty awesome if you've got the room, basically a wide spear. Especially if ranged weapons are rare and most attackers will be using knives/small weapons, a foot of sharp steel on a pole really gives you the advantage.

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Adol214@reddit

Did you knew shovel throwing was a thing? It stick pretty deep in wood....

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Cry-Technical@reddit

Firefighter axe is my favourite.

This will probably get lost because the post is a few days old, but if you're still reading responses you should consider two things:

Stopping power: how fast will using the weapon put an immediate stop to a threat

Range: can you defend yourself at a range where the attacker cannot successfully attack, or is much less likely to be dangerous.

I don't know how your government views online interactions, but give the apparent willingness to jail people for online activity that is being demonstrated in Europe right now, I'd be careful posting shit like this online.

Here's a firearm alternative that I came across.

https://youtube.com/shorts/RG9a1ARXZhM?si=XM2fhFrQD9Y-coxS

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tooserioustoosilly@reddit

Kind of pointless to ask this question without also giving us a list of illegal weapons?

Now of course I looked it up and you can own a firearm in the Netherlands it's just more difficult and only allowed for specific purposes.

So maybe do your research and get one legally?

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BoerZoektVeuve@reddit (OP)

Hoi,

In The Netherlands you can have a airgun/pistol with unlimited power/caliber!

For home defense a PCP airpistol with quick swappable mag would be ideal.

A few that are populair

Hatsan Velox \~ $425

Viper Evanix \~ $1400

Huben GK1 version 3 \~ $1600

PCP is best because they can hold pressure for days so you have it ready when needed!

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Fit_Acanthisitta_475@reddit

Some those airgun can easy take down a small deer. However you don’t want keep pressure in the tank all time

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DingleberryBlaster69@reddit

Most manufacturers recommend keeping some air in the tank these days. Keeps seals tight and by keeping the system pressurized, you’re keeping moisture out.

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It_is_Fries_No_Patat@reddit

The point is that you need to for self defense and I will gladly buy some O-rings a year and swap them.

There is a reason for this. Fuck your government, get a gun anyways.

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BoerZoektVeuve@reddit (OP)

lostscause@reddit

range is king with weapons,

Bows/arrows, 9MM+caliber Air guns(over 450FPS) slingshots

https://www.krale.shop/en/sport-shooting/guns/air-rifles/

Spear, swords etc .

For the Netherlands, air rifle. No license needed nor active membership. You can practice in your garden all you want.

They literarily hunt with air rifles (PCPs) on boars and the like in South Africa, so it is powerful. And they have full auto PCPs, long and compact models, hand guns,… so self defence is perfectly possible with them.

There are several good Dutch forums on air rifles, check them out. Enough hunters and preppers there.

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Spongiebrain@reddit

Dogs mate. A properly trained dog. Not just a dog that sits on command. A fuckin dog that salivates at the thought of biting some cnts arm like he's a rag doll, brings him to the ground so you can stomp his head.

A dog that doesn't eat from strangers or from anything that isn't their bowl, so they don't eat bait.

A weapon can be used against you, not a trained dog.

Easy to make your sling just be a bracelet to get practice in whenever. It's not even a deviant act, just a fun past time, if you like.

https://gogun.de/en/

This company specialises in non-firearm weapons that are legal in most of Europe. In particular they make a lever-action crossbow with a magazine that can hold 7 bolts

https://gogun.de/en/1000790

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Loud_Cockroach_3344@reddit

Cig lighter and many aerosol sprays make a nice flamethrower.

Practice axe throwing. Stick to under 10 meter. Probably best for around 5 meters. Practice a fast draw and throw. Best part of a hatchet is it has enough mass to hurt no matter how the strike lands.

Usagi_Shinobi@reddit

Whatever you can actually train with on a regular basis. Having a weapon that you are not fully proficient with is basically the same as handing a weapon to your opponent. A baton you've trained with is infinitely superior to a bow you've never used.

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SharpLion1988@reddit

An illegal gun.

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eastmick32@reddit

So I know absolutely nothing about Dutch “weapons” laws and honestly just don’t feel like doing any research on the subject. That said Cold Steel makes a few different spearheads that can be installed relatively easily on something as simple as a broom stick. Poll arms were a standard weapon for most armies across the world for millennia. I would also recommend joining a historical reenactment group to get some kind of training in how to use poll arms. Again, Iv don’t zero research into the laws or availability of these items I just know they exist. Good luck

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BarbarianPhilosopher@reddit

I'm also in a place where firearms are not an option.

Archery is a legitimate sport, and it is possible here to get equipment for yourself. Crossbows are harder to get but you can track them down through the right channels. Hunting slingshots can also be procured through similar sources, shoot steel ball bearings.

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smokinLobstah@reddit

2 cans of Wasp and Hornet spray. They shoot a stream up to 20ft...and if it gets in an attacker's nose, eyes, or mouth, they're done attacking.

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overcomethestorm@reddit

Underrated comment here

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davidthechong@reddit

America here. When I was married my wife had hornet spray in her nightstand. We kept out bedroom on the second floor of an extremely defensible stairway. I used a solid core door on our bedroom with locks that were rated for 1500#/pressure.

If I was home the issue was more of how we’d clean up the mess afterwards :)

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JonnySteffen@reddit

Crossbows are great single shot weapons. Have a spear for backup.

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Edhin_OShea@reddit

Slingshot wirh plenty of spare bands, steel balls etc. You can get them on Amazon. I learned it is wayyyyy harder to pull, while holding both the shot and the thong, and arm placement correctly and that didn't even include how incredibly weak I clearly am. My younger self would never believe me today.

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thunderscreech22@reddit

I would second a lot of replies here saying air guns, bows, or any garden implement that’s roughly comparable to a spear.

Depends on you. Ranged weapons? Get a crossbow. Otherwise my favorite weapon is a 14-15th c style war hammer. My blacksmith made a bunch for the seals team that went into the caves looking for Bin Laden (he’s a super cool dude) because they’re mostly silent, never jam or run out of ammo, and they were designed to peel knights out of their armor like tin cans so they are still VERY effective against helmets and body armor.

However you have to learn how to use one and not a lot of people will. Still my favorite weapon.

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MissDebbie420@reddit

I vote crossbow.

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Antique_Way685@reddit

Frankly guns work best as deterrents so you don't need real ones, especially if real ones are scarce in your area. You just need something that looks like a gun from enough distance (paint a semi-realistic water gun or BB gun if possible and confront people from an upstairs window or the roof or something).

I am happy to do the training - we have even done two courses at said club and I did some shooting in the country I grew up in as well. I know how to shoot... What I would like now is to be able to peacefully and responsibly practice shooting as hobby, on my own terms, on my own property...

I don't want to be forced to socialise as part of this... and I am not looking for shooting to be a source of friendship or a support system. I can get that much closer to home and from other activities. I certainly don't need that sort of thing from a gun club that the law would force me to join that is a total pain in the arse to get to, not to mention expensive...

We have existing friends and contacts who would be happy to help us improve and there is even a gun shop in our nearest town that sells second hand guns of all types. But for some reason, even if we are licensed to have a gun, we are not allowed to use it or practice the hobby unless we drive two hours or so up to the nearest club (or, for some reason, if we want to 'practice' by shooting at living things for sport, which I don't trust myself to do without more practice).

I can't go to the club realistically because I have livestock to care for and dairy animals that need milking twice a day and we can't take long days away from the farm to do that sort of thing. Just not practical at all.

Laws like that make it unrealistic, if not actually impossible, for people like us who have a sensible interest in the hobby, and just want to quietly and introvertedly enjoy things on our own terms, without being forced to socialise and pay for the privilege.

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ee-5e-ae-fb-f6-3c@reddit

have zero interest in doing it competitively

I shoot competitive action pistol. It's really at your own pace. If you want to wear athletic shoes, run fast, hose the targets down, and focus on shaving microseconds off your time, you can do that. If you want instead to focus on wearing what you would anyway, going slow, and pitting yourself against yourself, you can do that too. The general structure of IPSC, USPSA, IDPA, and other similar sports is that you shoot a set of stages at a match, and at the end, your overall time is calculated. The person with the lowest time places first, and so on. Generally at tier 1 matches, there no award ceremony or anything like that. You go home with the satisfaction of having spent the day shooting. You wouldn't generally be competing directly against other people in a tiered elimination system. Very few shooting sports are structured that way.

Another thing that competition provides is perspective. You get to see how other people solve a stage, how they shoot more efficiently, and so you get to pick up things from them which you can incorporate in your own training. For example, if you watch someone who has really good footwork, you'll start to understand how you should be pushing off when leaving a position, the position of your feet when landing in a position, when to take shorter steps, when to slow down, etc. Perhaps something that seems more applicable to shooting is how to transition from target to target, when to break your grip, and when to reload. All of this happens at your own pace.

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Seruati@reddit

I can see your point, but I think what you're interested in is really different to what I'm interested in, and that's okay. The only issue is that what I like is just illegal in the country I live in...

All I want to do is sit up in my woodland on a nice day, by myself or with my partner, with a picnic maybe, and shoot some tin cans off a log and try and hit some paper targets. Literally just shoot the shit. It's relaxing.

Archery is legal most places, however you need spending with it.

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throwaway910453@reddit

Air guns are pretty good for very small game like rabbits, squirrel and would be handy.

They make larger caliber ones that can kill things like deer, probably would work on two legged ones as well.

3D printer gies mmmrrrrrrrt

Look up the FGC9, or Luty.

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CandidStrength873@reddit

Luchtbuksen zijn legaal en kruisbogen ook aanraders: huben gk1 en steambow ar6 stinger 2

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800ChevyS10@reddit

Pellet gun

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CulturePristine8440@reddit

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sotoshark@reddit

You need something with range. Bow and arrow since you can't get a gun. As for close range get a machete and pry bar. Both are tools so get dual functions out of them. Good luck in the zombie apocalypse.

If you want it for home defense get the longest melee weapon you can reasonably wield in your house.. do you have an open layout, lots of hallways, etc.

Personal defense would be a knife, if that's legal. If knives are illegal get the most legal stabby pokey thing you can legally carry.

If you're a criminal you already know what to get.

For your own safety, avoid conflict if possible. When you can't avoid conflict, use the minimum force needed to end the conflict. Or legally you might become the bad guy, depends on where you live.

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phil1001@reddit

Bow and a catapult with ball bearings.

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thebaine@reddit

Become a hunter or target shooter according to your laws as long as you dont have a reported mental illness or substance abuse issue or a felony. You would be crazy not too try the legal avenues.

I have 1000’ of steel electric fence wire (hot wire) and a transformer connected ready to shock the fuck out of anyone who gets too close to my house. It takes only minutes to run and connect the wire itself.

Concentrated oils of the Carolina Reaper Pepper, dish soap, water and a super soaker or pump spray tank. Wanna get fancy? Assuming you have water pressure, use a lawn sprinkler, inject it into the lines. They’ll wish you had just shot them… (I’m a gardener and grew them myself)

You’d be shocked how much damage lawn equipment can do. Weedwacker without the guard, for example.

A rudimentary spring (as opposed to limb) crossbow is also not difficult to craft from large springs.

“Hunting slingshot” with those round metal balls are pretty lethal with good aim.

Paintball guns can fire more than paintballs. You could craft your own bolts, freeze paintballs, or large ball bearings like those used for slingshots.

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No-Stable182@reddit

Warrior post society and many others on YouTube discuss this. First, you should be the weapon, everything else is a tool. Second regarding home and property. Zones radiating from the most important with layers of security. The exterior is a hard barrier, with anti personal properties (ie buckthorn bushes with a ditch and hard fence). A large/ imposing gate/entrance (phycological factor that defines an area being separate from the rest. Distance and clear sight from fence to home. (No where to hide) Orderly and organized, plus signs of defensive positions and holds. These alone should deter 99.9% of threats. If it feels well planned and executed most people will avoid it.

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painefultruth76@reddit

Bows require considerable training, crossbows maintenance, machetes are bloody but require a degree of skill in a combat situation. Keeping edge on to target.

Low training, high damage ratio, it's hard to beat a bat.

Always keep a glove and ball with you, your lawyer will thank you later.

Driving spikes through one seems like an idea, but that's a good way to get it stuck... and the damage is internal, not external... so, the barbed wire wrapp is an intimidation factor, which shouldn't be discounted entirely...

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DearElevator4522@reddit

Machete - (exc)use? Clearing brush when camping.

Slingshot - (exc)use? Scaring off the neighbors dog when it tries to shit in my yard.

Bear mace - (exc) use? Bears(idk if you have bears but i assume everywhere has bears)

Sharp tin shears - (exc) use? Cutting metal for a project or some sort of diy assembly. _- alongside the tin shears have the (usually one) tool to remove the center screw so now you have a pair of twin blades.

Lighter and a flammable aerosol can - (exc)use? Lighter for your smokes/campfire, axe body spray cuz I stink big dawg.

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ShinigamiOverlord@reddit

Very close range, a hammer like 🔨 not ⚒️. Since the first type has a sharp edge one way. Inflicts more damage and makes you look crazy enough.

If lethal, crossbow is a decent choice. If you don't live alone then you can have 2 crossbows, one for you one for someone else to reload while you shoot. Bow needs a lot more work to handle proficiently.

Non lethal projectile, maybe?, is a modern slingshot with metal balls. They can do a lot of damage.

A lethal option hand held close range is an axe 🪓 or a hatchet. Something with a longer handle, but not too long. Good that you can handle with one hand and two hands.

Otherwise look into maximum legal knife size you can carry. Get that.

You can 3D print guns, but only one shots. Those were considered the "safer" option among the choices. I'd advise not to do so since there have been cases of gun blowing up if made incorrectly. Or so I've read.

You can make an IED, don't do that.

I recommend once again, slingshot with metal bearings.

You could probably carry a duty knife/builders knife/wood crafting knife by size.

Whatever you are gonna buy, buy it from a reputable source and make a deep dive into any possible problems they have.

Another great saying - "If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns."

I'm not telling you to get a gun, but don't think that just because they are illegal that people don't have them.

A bow/crossbow is good for distance. An axe or baseball bat is good for nearby. A big Rambo knife is great for too close encounters.

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TheGhostofNowhere@reddit

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No-Professional-1884@reddit

I think the idea that preppers will need to fend off roving groups of bandits is an Americanized myth.

Case in point: look at the southeastern part of the US. They were just devastated by two once-in-a-century hurricanes a week apart. Whole blocks of home and businesses are just gone.

If that isn’t SHTF, nothing is.

Yet every story coming out of there is of communities coming together and everyone helping out.

If SHTF comes to you, that is what you will see. Unless you’re the selfish prick.

Get weapons to hunt with. They can double as self defense tools if needed, but understand they probably won’t.

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actualsysadmin@reddit

There’s a big difference between a temporary displacement and a permanent one

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No-Professional-1884@reddit

Are you suggesting that an entire building simply being gone isn’t permanent? Sure you can rebuild, but you can do that in any scenario you want to come up with. So is nothing permanent?

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actualsysadmin@reddit

A building being gone or a city being gone is a localized disaster. Not a wide spread one (country wide).

The national guard generally upholds peace in these scenarios and establishes a curfew

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No-Professional-1884@reddit

What is the difference to the person who just lost everything? Respectfully I feel like this is splitting hairs.

Also, the National Guard was not in many (any that I know of) of these communities and they all worked together fine.

There will always be bad actors. But what major disaster in the past 50 years has taken place and we also had a widespread security issue?

I can’t think of one.

IMO this myth of Mad Max roving bands after any SHTF issue is only perpetuated by people that benefit from people believing it. The gun sellers and tactical trainers and others.

If you see what everyday people do during these situations then you see that it’s all just smoke and mirrors.

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actualsysadmin@reddit

I’ve been in hurricane areas, just had my dwelling hit with a tornado and lost everything myself.

Firearms are the ONLY thing that matters when it comes to freedom. The war for independence wasn’t won with food, water, nor survival supplies. It was one with firearms.

If you’re here to dissuade people from owning firearms, then you’re doing a huge disservice.

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leonme21@reddit

B. Haver taken a first aid course not mandated by their work.

80%, 90%? And that’s probably the case for many other sensible preps like actual food growing skills, or just many simple pieces knowledge that most don’t possess without the internet. Many american preppers are just gun nuts that need an excuse.

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AdCultural2889@reddit

Of course being prepared for the worst case scenario is multi-faceted. Anyone who suggests otherwise is either a moron or planning to initiate violence.

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Affectionate_Win_506@reddit

How about a baseball bat or some type of metal plumbing or electrical pipe section?

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DaLurker87@reddit

I've always considered a paintball gun with marbles a fairly safe and efficient bet

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gaurddog@reddit

You need force multipliers.

Weapons that allow one person to take on someone larger and stronger, or multiple people.

The terrifying scenario is never "Me against you" it's "Me against you and five of your friends."

Pepper Spray is by far and above the best Non-Firearm tool in this regard. It's one of the only tools that allows a single individual to deter or escape a crowd. It can disable an attacker at 10' distance and doesn't require a lot of training to use.

If you can't get a hold of it due to local laws and regulations, Wasp and Hornet spray will do in a pinch.

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MetaPlayer01@reddit

I got a machete. And other tools as others have mentioned. But you could get a bow or crossbow (if not illegal in your country)

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Buick1-7@reddit

AR15 and refuse to give it up.

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BoxOfUsefulParts@reddit

In the UK we never, ever carry a weapon or item for self-defence. Police will use weasel words to try to get people to admit to that crime and carrying anything that looks like a gun, or weapon of any kind can result in unwanted attention from armed police. Having said that they won't usually come in all guns blazing but you will be lying face down in the mud whilst they shout at you.

We can however have tools and sporting equipment. And sensible reasons for owning these items.

I joined an archery club and have two bows and a large selection of interesting arrow heads.

My ex-wife and I used to play baseball together. I still have a selection of bats. I also have photos of us playing together, mitts and balls.

I have a very nice air-rifle and loads of pellets. I bought an air-pistol so I could give a rat a second shot, just to be kind. I bought a second air-pistol that turned out to be an American one that may fire at a much higher velocity than a UK legal one. Of course i will surrender it if I ever find the information I need on that. I find that these can be carried discretly in fishing tackle bags.

I was into gardening and have several machetes and knives

I also have protective clothing against bullets but mostly against thrown objects and close-contact bladed weapons. I have two sets of everything a UK police officer would be equipped with for a riot, including a full-length riot shield from the Netherlands. These are not illegal to own but most of my protective clothing would be worn under loose clothing to hide it in public. The best defence is don't be where the trouble is happening and don't draw unwanted attention to yourself or your property.

Things would be extremely bad if I was leaving home with this equipment but some items could be used for lesser troubles. I do have other items beyond what is mentioned here.

I am a political activist and do get practice with defensive items. The local police know where I live and I am on hate lists on social media.

The approaches and entrances to my home are defended and secure. Six police officers with a metal ram failed to get into my home. They would have got in eventually but lesser equipped baddies would do no better.

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Stigles@reddit

r/iamverybadass

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Panthean@reddit

One of the cooler UK compliant guns I've seen was a semiauto .22 magnum AR. In the video I saw the guy had it set up nice with a decent optic, sling and light.

I gather it's a huge hassle to get the proper license and everything, but I'd definitely work towards that if I lived there.

I'm not super familiar with the laws there so idk if it could be acquired in all areas.

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MEXIC075@reddit

It can

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Crossbow, sword, knives.

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Uhh_wheresthetruck@reddit

Shotgun shells and mouse traps make good perimeter devices.

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HMSSurprise28@reddit

Hatchet, Machete.

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Kela-el@reddit

Running shoes.

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TriggerTough@reddit

Crossbow!

If you can get more than one use them with others to stalk the prey if needed.

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TerminallyBlitzed@reddit

FGC-9

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Ordinary_Awareness71@reddit

Firearms. Seriously. Your adversary will have them (because criminals NEVER obey the law) and you don't bring a knife to a gun fight. Even in countries where they are not plentiful or illegal (like England) the bad guys will always be able to get one and a basic one shot gun made out of some pieces from the local hardware store is what was used to assassinate the Japanese PM during covid.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

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Cavemanjoe47@reddit

A 24-oz straight claw framing hammer. Not a fun sight to see from the other side.

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Fixerupper100@reddit

I would say this: do what is right and moral and needed to defend your family. Your responsibility to them supersedes any law in your country.

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VegaStyles@reddit

Compound bow and crossbow. Bowgun. Machete and hatchet are probably the most versatile. A midget prybar.

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Beelzeburb@reddit

In rural areas of the US trailer homes are common. They are long rectangular homes shipped on flatbeds.

As such I argue that short spears are the best non projectile home defense tool. In narrow spaces you can be far more effective thrusting than swinging a bat.

Are you in the UK or something?

There are still plenty of options such as directly under firearms would be high pressure air guns, then compound/crossbow/bows under that then you dip into slingshots and slings (if you have the skill for that)

Then after you run out of ranged weapons that's where you get into simple melee weapons. The most historically common weapon would be a spear/pike but they are generally only used outdoors.

Sword would be cool but there are far too many poor quality wall hangers available today and takes far more training to use effectively than most people realize.

After than you got axes, machetes and large fixed blades. Axes are intimidating but harder to hit a moving target with so I'll always recommend the most blade length like a machete.

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AdministrationOk1083@reddit

Nothing is so illegal it cannot be purchased

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Low_Beautiful_5970@reddit

Grab a couple old hockey sticks and cut them down to 3’ish. Grip tape for control. Now, get some circular saw blades. The bigger the teeth, the better. Bolt and washer through the big whole, smaller bolt through the secondary hole. Feel free to file and further sharpen.

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88clandestiny88@reddit

Haha funny joke what a jokester. Everyone knows pellet guns are too wimpy for anything. Haha. For real man...Shhh. hey man you trying to get those banned too? Ixnay on the airgungs eh. I have a huban gk-1 pistol and a hand pump. 5000psi only takes 60 pumps it's semi auto revolver with 17 rounds but I get 40 shots of . 25 cal slugs at 80 ft lbs of with full pressure. No license, no shell casings, suppressors are legal and make it so quiet that the sound of the slug hitting the targer 30+ years away is far louder than the escaping gasses and the thing is accurate at 30-50 yards. With the carbine kit and a proper scope it's accurate at much greater distance.

Silly little bb gun it's a toy never going to work for when shtf. But the those big bore on the other hand .. 50 .. 72 cal! You can also get a fully auto . 35 with a suppressor mailed to your door but for how much longer? Who knows but what I do know is that they are NOT FIRE ARMS and those regulations do not apply whatsoever to these so let's keep it that way

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seafaringbastard@reddit

Deleted

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Wise-Boot-968@reddit

conversation

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Nemo_Shadows@reddit

Bows and Arrows (35 to 45 lbs.), great for hunting and self-defense as long as you see them coming and in that case knives or long knives for close in hand-to-hand combat if need be.

The best thing to do if not in a direct conflict is to simply fade into the background unless they are really a clear and present danger, injuries that can be treated properly are just as deadly, and a slow death from them is very painful.

Do they allow you to have an air gun there? Crossbow is very effective in a lot of situations even in areas where guns are permitted.

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357-Magnum-CCW@reddit

Daneaxe. Much better for combat than any woodcutter ax.

There's a reason Vikings built them much lighter with narrower blades: they can be swung swiftly like a stick almost

Try that with a woodcutter ax and you're exhausted and slow after 3 swings.

Scasne@reddit

Something short range say sword/sand then bow/arrow and a lathe as well as well as other maintenance/manufacturing equipment.

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agent_flounder@reddit

I think being farther away from your opponent is better than being closer.

If ranged weapons like slingshot, bow, poisoned darts (/s) are out...

And I admit I am talking out my ass....

Spears and pole arms were popular with armies for a long time.

Easy to make. You can even sharpen a long stick.

For a better point, find a fixed blade knife, kitchen knife, or make one with some good steel (e.g., leaf spring from car, woodworking chisel) or even crappy mild steel.

Then affix it to the end of a suitable pole with, idk, epoxy and wrapped with Paracord or using hose clamps?

The pole could be a mop, broom, garden tool handle, window washing pole, whatever.

A trench shovel is already narrow and can be sharpened.

Even better a dandelion weeding tool. Tip is small and pointy already. Five or ten minutes with an angle grinder to sharpen et voila, you got an insta-spear.

Any clublike thing. Baseball bat or equivalent. Your spear or any long pole can be a staff. (Of course everything I learned about quarterstaffs I learned from Daffy Duck...)

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verge365@reddit

I keep a few baseball bats around the house now because I’ve always been a woman who knows how to swing a bat.

I also know how the chop vegetables really well.

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Bogaigh@reddit

Even shotguns are banned? No one can duck hunt?

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Shit_On_Your_Parade@reddit

Check this out, apparently air guns are now becoming a viable self-defense option in certain circumstances.

https://youtu.be/LY8_L-QMw74?feature=shared

https://youtu.be/9ZNJZwTqzvA?feature=shared

These you can also build yourself. Which is something I'm working on. In fact, I'm trying to figure out a trigger mechanism right now as we speak. (It's kinda working). Ironically, building an air gun is harder than building an actual gun.

Next up: repeating crossbow:

https://youtu.be/jKDQfYBglEI?feature=shared

https://youtu.be/khtjkzfqMY8?feature=shared

https://youtu.be/IyVBJo3POGQ?feature=shared

https://youtu.be/CSwDvoGZElk?feature=shared

https://youtu.be/QWFtFKFZfzY?feature=shared

Yeah; there's a whole lot of options out there and there's no bloody way I could include even a fraction of them so I strongly recommend you do you own little deep-dive into this topic. The long story short on repeating crossbows is that many can be home made, especially with a 3d printer. Many can use both rubber or actual crossbow limbs. Plenty are quick firing. And if you've got sharp broad-heads, it takes very little power to do some damage.

If you want to move away from things that go pew:

https://youtube.com/shorts/uCZKhsDnAmo?feature=shared

You can become a member of a gun club (recommended if you own firearms), go shooting regularly (recommended when you own a firearm), learn about the weapon and the legislation (also recommended) and then you can own a gun legally at home.

Or you can become a hunter officially. Do some research or contact your polics, just never say you want the gun for self defence just sport shooting.

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Gsogso123@reddit

In the US you could put up some semi inconspicuous stickers mentioning your membership in the NRA (national rifle association) near your front door or something. Won’t stop every threat but it can’t hurt. Do you have an equivalent over there?

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gustavotherecliner@reddit

Go full medieval. A good crossbow, a spear, an axe, a sword (preferably a shorter one-handed one), a nice long dagger...

If a PCP airgun is legal then problem solved as long as you don't mind spending about $2000+ for the rifle and everything needed to maintain and run it.

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freddbare@reddit

Firearms, of course.

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digitaljoystick86@reddit

Bro come to America for a week or so buy black powder guns online have em mailed no is required then ship em back to your country u wound be a fucking hero

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digitaljoystick86@reddit

Reddit pulled my comment about shipping guns lol fucking liberal nazi camp over here

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Vegetaman916@reddit

In general, you will need something for hunting as well. Depending on skills, I would suggest a compound bow or crossbow. That at least gives you some self-defense capabilities.

And remember that, in a societal collapse scenario, what is legal and illegal will quickly become irrelevant. A crossbow, while limited, can be used for the step up to the next level, once those less law abiding individuals start coming out to play.

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Archery? Shepards sling?

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Complex_Material_702@reddit

There are some pretty lethal pellet guns around these days

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ThisIsSomebodyElse@reddit

Tactical Tomahawk.

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an_achronist@reddit

I made a monkey fist with a 50mm wooden core on the end of a 9" braid with a woven handle. Light as a feather, leathers a femur

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GonzoHead@reddit

We Americans overvalue firearms as preps. I would go with an air rifle in .22 if you can do that with spare valves, o rings, seals etc for the air rifle. A slingshot is a nice cheap prep too.

You want ranged weapons if possible

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salchichasconpapas@reddit

Americans don't overvalue firearms

A lot of people probably undervalue training and fitnes as well as other important tools, provisions and skills ... but firearms are incredibly valuable

I see a lot of well armed people that are going to die from diabetes and heart disease, but not because they overvalued firearms

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muxxy3102@reddit

Great point on undervaluing training. That’s the one thing I’d add to this discussion, great to have something, but if you don’t train it and train in a stressful way with the fitness to do so ( do 30 second of jumping jacks, etc before you take a shot or fire a bow) it’s easy to be a liability.

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jammin_jalapeno27@reddit

You can get a semi auto rifle. The FGC9 MK2 was created just for you. You just need a 3D printer and VPN. You can also create ammo by reloading it yourself (a same team designed the process for ammo). The weapon was created by a guy in Germany and a decentralized team specially for countries with tight gun regulations, and it’s designed to be impossible to regulate. People have even made it in Japan. It’ll take a few days to make the weapon and cost maybe $500 USD. You’ll have to research how to get the right parts and ammo components.

Basically, if you’re smart about sourcing, use a VPN, and shut up about it, it’s impossible for the government or anyone to know you have the weapon.

I’m in 3 clubs, 1 federation, I compete in 4 categories. Pistols aside I hunt, compete in clays and reload my own rounds. It’s a wonderful world where you can constantly improve a skill. Well worthwhile in Europe, the sooner the better as the laws get tighter constantly but most of the time they’ll grandfather stuff in.

Frogskin79@reddit

There's a German guy on YT who created a semi auto crossbow. Thing is sweet. He's shown and shot it from beginning stages to now that it's sold commercial. JoergSprave is his channel name I believe. It might only be available in Europe but worth a look. From what I saw it was definitely something to consider.

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capt-bob@reddit

A co worker was outraged a local cop shot someone coming towards him with a sharpened stick once. I said a lot of people have been killed with those over the years... She's says oh I must have missed that( sarcastically), who? I said like Greeks, Romans... And got a laugh, but seriously, a big Sharp edge blade on a stick gives you reach before they get to you and is proven over millennia. Cold steel makes a zulu spear I think that would be useful indoors I think, for jabbing and slashing two handed. If you get the crossbow, it would be a good backup. If you have nothing else, what about a big sharp chef knife maybe taped onto a piece of mop handle?

Maybe an axe or garden tool with a long sharp blade to have reach and not be as easy to take away from you.

Do you have sports that use a bat like cricket or baseball?.

You could try and find some martial arts classes for armed and/or unarmed arts, but remember basically you are the weapon, the tools are just an extension. You must be prepared to fight or they'll just take it away from you.

Gardening Hand-Scythe

DIY Monkey Paw

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Sleddoggamer@reddit

You'll just need to know your local laws and what their intended to encompass. As far as I know, self-defense of all kinds is illegal in the Netherlands, and if something isn't specifically banned, it might still be a felony to use in defense

What you need is usually the equalvielent of anything that might be used against you when the people are generally peaceful. You need more if people generally aren't and less the more peaceful people are, but at the same time, the more peaceful people are, the more likely something lesser will be more trouble until it's been bad for awhile

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BoerZoektVeuve@reddit (OP)

It’s probably because English isn’t my native language, but I tried to understand the last sentence a couple times but I don’t understand what you’re saying 😅

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The_TesserekT@reddit

I think what he is trying to say is that if you get a baseball bat to bash someone's head in, you also have to keep a ball and glove next to it. So you can say in court you just happen to have one because you like baseball.

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Sleddoggamer@reddit

It probably doesn't matter to you with how the Netherlands veiw self-defense, but self-defense is all about proportionate response

bbrosen@reddit

I'm keeping my firearms

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mementosmoritn@reddit

A firearm that can't be tracked back to you.

Flexible weapons, like chains, ropes, scarfs.

Short-range weapons, like: brass knuckles, sticks, rocks, knives/machetes/swords/daggers, bats/canes/pipes, flails, ink pens, magazines, tire thumpers, stun guns, pepper spray (bear spray is a weaker formula), cats eyes self-defense, monkey fist, duct spun into rope/string.

Remote and passive weapons: sensors, drones, lights, cameras, traps (deadfall, windsor, figure-4, covered pit), and remote explosives (firecrackers, pressure bottles).

Deterrents, like dogs, mules, emus, breeding bull/sire/stud.

Early warning, like dogs, mules, sheep, goats.

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leisurechef@reddit

Crossbow is definitely a good choice but they don’t like being stowed in the “cocked” position as it damages the limbs.

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TheSensiblePrepper@reddit

Bow and knives. I have a long bow that I can take down a deer with one good shot. Easy to move with and easy to reload as long as you have arrows. In a World without firearms, the Bow will be the weapon to be worried about.

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BoerZoektVeuve@reddit (OP)

Thanks for your advice! A long bow, or pretty much any bow other than a crossbow, take quite some practice to master though, right? Is it something you practice with regularly to keep your skill on a decent enough level?

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TheSensiblePrepper@reddit

A long bow, or pretty much any bow other than a crossbow, take quite some practice to master though, right?

Yes and no. Hear me out.

The hardest part was building up the strength and muscle memory for the weight of the bow. Unlike a compound bow or crossbow, YOU are holding all that weight in your hand. So you need to build that. Thankfully, in the modern world that we live in, you can easily get a Bow Resistance Trainer. I picked that link so you could easily see what I am talking about since I bought mine from the US based Amazon site.

Once you have the strength and muscle memory, you obviously need to practice aim and accuracy. I originally started by practicing for 20-30 minutes a day with a little longer on the weekends. I started getting pretty good after a few weeks. Then I started with some basic drills and running and shooting. Good alright with that.

Hehe. I have a large guard dog but with the amount he eats… 😂. It’s like a kg of duck a day.

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Are ball bearing loaded firearms also illegal? Like muskets. Also look into air rifles.

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Adol214@reddit

Consider having the material to make a weapon instead.

A good bloom stick, a sharp kitchen knife and some duck tape can make a nice spike.

Test the process and weapon durability, then unbuild it.

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Monkeylord000@reddit

Armoured fists (plate spiked gauntlet) along with full plate armour (mixed with modern spec ops plate carrier n gear) and a big 2 handed axe 🪓 also spray paint for the eyes 👀 with this theme : https://youtu.be/Qz7EhV4t4Es?si=PNs_1TYX3pvJZpHT

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TheLostExpedition@reddit

1.) Wrist rockets

2.) Sling shots

3.) Crossbow

4.) Bow

5.) Throwing knives

6.) Explosives

7.) Bear Traps

8.) Swords/machetes

9.) Cast iron pan. (Just watch Disney's Tangled)

10.) Rocks

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TheLostExpedition@reddit

1.) Wrist rockets

2.) Sling shots

3.) Crossbow

4.) Bow

5.) Throwing knives

6.) Explosives

7.) Bear Traps

8.) Swords/machetes

9.) Cast iron pan. (Just watch Disney's Tangled)

Bow n arrow, crossbow. Spear, long reaching sword, a slingshot. Anything that let's you get in hits while staying out of the enemies reach.

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Brangusler@reddit

orange julius

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Feeling-Buffalo2914@reddit

A quick look at the Dutch laws, and what a mess.

Honestly I would have to dig up a good cane/walking stick. Maybe go over to Ireland and get a decent blackthorn cane. Cause of my bad knee.

Then start studying Bartitsu. For the “historical purposes”.

On top of that, I would want a decent folding knife with a locking blade. That covers the day to day.

Are there any historical reenactment groups near you? These would give you a valid reason to have a mace, a flail, a falchion, all sorts of medieval weapons.

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m855-556@reddit

A gun lol

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depressed_pen@reddit

Pepper spray and a hunting knife