ULPT REQUESTS Purposely getting fired for unemployment/ having a good reason to sue your employer
Posted by KloudKoala@reddit | UnethicalLifeProTips | View on Reddit | 94 comments
I recently found out that my current employer wants to get rid of me by making me quit. I was curious if anyone had any good ideas to flip it on them in a way that can either give me a good enough reason to sue them and get a check or at the absolute least get them to fire me and collect unemployment. To preface this, I have worked in this place for a year now and completely turned this store around. While it may not have been exactly the way the district managers wanted, we got the same results. So help a guy out please!
czaremanuel@reddit
You’re not gonna have a reason to sue them. That’s not something that just falls out of the sky and it’s not something you can just walk up to a lawyer and say “money pwease!” Employment discrimination is a big thing for lawyers because it takes SO MUCH WORK (I.e. $$$) to prove. If you think you’re gonna get a wrongful termination suit, newsflash unless you have an employment contract they can fire your ass for anything.
That said, the easiest way to do this is to just suck at your job. No misconduct, no stealing, no insubordination, nothing involving health or safety. Just keep forgetting things, keep coming 10-15 mins late to meetings, keep “misunderstanding” your tasks to the point they need to get someone to correct your work. But you should look up your state’s definition of misconduct to be sure.
Basically, make having you around not be a liability, but be an expensive waste of their time and manpower.
RoleLong7458@reddit
At-will is misleading. It's for any NON-PROTECTED reason. If my job fires me for performance then okay, not protected but if they, say, fire me for being gay? I'd have a settlement so fast their heads would spin.
kevinh456@reddit
“I don’t like you”
czaremanuel@reddit
Believe it or not this is a 100% legal reason to fire an at-will employee but for some reason redditors have a hard time wrapping their heads around that
how_small_a_thought@reddit
because its intentionally vague for the express purpose of being able to do the thing that discrimination laws are meant to prevent. what if the reason why "i dont like you" is because youre gay and i dont like gay people? yes that is literally discrimination but hey, im not firing you because youre gay, its because i dont like you.
its not that we dont understand why the law is how it is, its that we think it shouldnt be that way.
czaremanuel@reddit
You say "intentionally vague" like you've uncovered some horrible hidden truth about the legal system by being the first person to think someone can get fired for discriminatory reasons.
The entire foundation of the US legal system is you need evidence to back a claim. You claim you're fired for sexual orientation when your boss does not? Prove it. If proving a claim you're making is so unreasonable to you, you don't want law and order, you just want to do whatever you want.
In other words, imagine you're an employer and every time you let an employee go, they claim it's protected discrimination when it sincerely isn't, and they sue you. Wouldn't your first instinctual question be "wait, where's the proof of that?" And that's exactly why it's "iNtEntIoNalLy VaGuE." And if you're thinking "well no one would EVER lie about discriminatory firing" I'll refer you to OP's fucking post.
how_small_a_thought@reddit
no i dont.
ohhh right, my bad. no crime can be committed at all anyway because its illegal to do crime.
there is no such thing as nuance. the point of my original comment was to imply that literally everyone who has ever been fired has been fired for discriminatory reasons. thank you for reminding me that i need to spell out every possible interpretation of everything i say for redditors.
czaremanuel@reddit
You're arguing with yourself. Discriminatory firing is literally legal as long as it's not against a PROTECTED class.
What the fuck are you even trying to say? Go run in circles on someone else's comment
how_small_a_thought@reddit
i should have anticipated every possible interpretation of my words and included an explanation for each of them in which i confirm that i am speaking generally and that in reality, my response would be far more nuanced.
czaremanuel@reddit
....or you can be correct instead, whatever works.
czaremanuel@reddit
How is using the actual term to describe the employee’s employment status misleading lmao do you hear yourself?
My comment specifically mentions employment discrimination (which is once again a bitch to prove; good luck proving you’re fired because you’re gay when the company said “you’re not a good culture fit” and anything that happened to you is hearsay). But you’re still nitpicking..? Have fun I guess
brookish@reddit
If you get fired for cause, you may not collect unemployment.
czaremanuel@reddit
Wow, you know unemployment laws in all 50 states? How impressive 😀
Completely BS because this varies by state and their own definitions. “For cause” isn’t a thing in my state; there’s misconduct (generally breaking the law at work) and that’s it.
That alone makes what you said a complete supposition unsupported by fact.
WatercressFine2338@reddit
Not sure why you’re getting so much hate/downvotes. I’m a lawyer and everything you’ve shared thus far is factually accurate.
Beginning-Fly8774@reddit
Can we get some more backstory here? Why do they want to make you quit? How do they plan to do this?
KloudKoala@reddit (OP)
So we had another supervisor that got fired for comping off too much food while she was here (over double me and the other manager combined). While we were giving out free shift meals and all of us knew that we shouldn’t be, she was doing it more than we had known. When I found out that, I let her know what was up and tried to help her cover our asses to save everyone’s job. She ended up getting fired and throwing everyone under the bus and telling the district manager that we had been doing all kinds of stuff and simply trying to take us down with her. The district manager has been speaking with another manager here about getting rid of me because of stuff she said, but they have no proof of anything being a fireable offense.
Pretty_Fisherman_314@reddit
Are you a female? I would disclose your pregancy and go on FMLA leave. Makes it really hard to fire you at all and they have to hire temps as your position must remain availible to you
fishtacos8765@reddit
And! When they lay you off after a month of being back, you can sue them for retaliation. (Why yes, I did successfully win that suit, how did you know?)
RichardBottom@reddit
When you win a suit like that, do you just earn your job back with back pay? Or is it a bigger payout?
fishtacos8765@reddit
There wasn't an offer of a job back, nor a legal requirement of that. No back pay, just a settlement.
-Shia-LaButtStuff-@reddit
How much does something like that pay?
fishtacos8765@reddit
The lawyer initially told me $300k.ended up being $30k, most of which went to the lawyer. Whomp whomp.
Pretty_Fisherman_314@reddit
To be fair only 33.33% should have gone to the lawyer.
fishtacos8765@reddit
Damn where were you when I needed you? I want to say 30% went to taxes and then the rest to the lawyer/firm.
Pretty_Fisherman_314@reddit
Yeah so basically you’re screwed gotta pay taxes always. But lawyers common rates are 33.33% unless paid hourly (most don’t do hourly any longer for these cases) and if you don’t win they don’t get paid. Standard is that anything more and I would be concerned about what exactly i get out of them representing me.
Pretty_Fisherman_314@reddit
Yup lmao 🤣 it’s the best unethical life tip
KloudKoala@reddit (OP)
Unfortunately no
fishtacos8765@reddit
Me neither. I had a legitimate reason to be out of work to care for my mom. But know that you can't fake FMLA, healthcare folks have to fill out a form on your behalf.
ferretkona@reddit
Open a claim with unemployment for reduced income if they reduce your hours.
tonyh505@reddit
Start talking openly about forming a Union. You’ll get fired and have a lawsuit
KloudKoala@reddit (OP)
See I thought about that, does that actually work?
tonyh505@reddit
It’s my retirement plan. Once I turn 65, I’ll start forming a Union. They’ll find a way to fire me. I collect unemployment (also maybe social security) get the labor board involved, file a lawsuit, get reinstated, collect back pay, damages etc. maybe we get unionized in the process. Retire. Who knows if it’ll work. What do I care, I’ll be retired.
Nathan-Stubblefield@reddit
If they fire you for cause, you might not get unemployment. Absenteeism, committing crimes, violating rules, fighting, theft, lying, embezzlement, drunkenness, taking drugs, disclosing trade secrets.
thepipesarecall@reddit
Well, you’re super unlikely to have a reason to sue them unless they fire you for being part of a protected class.
constructionhelpme@reddit
That's easy just be anything other than a straight white male. And if you're white just sacrifice your dignity and act gay.
it's almost scary how easy you can game the system and get free money simply by being anything other than a straight white man
It's almost like this is intentionally set up to attack straight white people
thepipesarecall@reddit
Average Florida brain opinion.
constructionhelpme@reddit
Point out anything I said that's untrue. It is true and it is ridiculous
how_small_a_thought@reddit
ill play. so, since you made the claim, the onus is on you to prove it. i will be genuine and take you seriously. first;
please provide your evidence for the idea that being nonstraight and/or nonwhite makes you more likely to get a job.
please provide your evidence for the way in which a nonwhite nonstraight person can game the system and get free money (also please explain why you arent currently pretending to be gay for literally free money).
once we've got the data nice and secured, we can continue.
fishtacos8765@reddit
This. And after speaking to employment lawyers over the years, I finally resigned myself to the fact that companies don't give a shit about you and will thus do crappy things. Doesn't make it illegal though.
Stick with being fired and get unemployment.
SassafrassPudding@reddit
if you get fired there's a 6-week wait to get unemployment. you have to file immediately, unless you want a longer delay
Gsogso123@reddit
That depends on the state
javertthechungus@reddit
Yeah. I think I was telling someone, they can still fire you for discriminatory reasons, they just can’t say it was for that.
MarathonRabbit69@reddit
OP needs to become pregnant ASAP.
RoleLong7458@reddit
OP should just say he/she is bisexual. Last I checked sexual orientation is protected.
Secret-Tackle8040@reddit
Convert to a religion and be very public about practicing your new faith. Also be candid about your mental health struggles and addiction issues.
KloudKoala@reddit (OP)
I like the way you’re thinking, but can’t do drug related, looked into labor/unemployment laws
lucicis@reddit
Alcoholism is protected, I think
JupiterSkyFalls@reddit
Yep cuz it's legal
how_small_a_thought@reddit
well damn how do we ever expect to solve it if we let it stay legal
DoubleBreastedBerb@reddit
Not as much as you’d think. Plus he’d have to proactively go to the company’s EAP and request assistance first and on his own accord. I’m no HR person, just a sap who dealt with this stuff as the safety guy so I may not be 100% on this but this is how it shook out many times in the places I worked.
KloudKoala@reddit (OP)
Really? I’ll need to look into that
MarathonRabbit69@reddit
Well, loudly becoming muslim and praying 5 x a day is totally protected, so instead of focusing on “can’t” focus on “can”.
poopsinshoe@reddit
Pastafarianism. Show up to work wearing a colander on your head. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster#:~:text=The%20Flying%20Spaghetti%20Monster%20(FSM,schools%20in%20the%20United%20States.
dizkopat@reddit
Pray 5 times a day, demand a prayer room, with wash basin, pray loudly, Islam could be a good choice
kellsdeep@reddit
Just start a rumor about yourself that sounds like sexual harassment. They will jump on that and fire you ASAP. That shit never holds up in unemployment court, and they will have zero evidence. Source: an employer tried to get rid of me by making up a scenario that I sexually harassed a subordinate. I was awarded full benefits of unemployment.
RachelTyrel@reddit
Creating a hostile work environment or otherwise trying to get you to quit is "constructive discharge," which gives rise to all the same causes of action that a wrongful termination does.
It will help if you find out HOW they were planning on getting you to resign your employment. I am sure there will be at least one unlawful method that they were planning on using.
ExpertCell468@reddit
Getting fired (for cause) disqualifies you for unemployment. Getting let go because your position was eliminated does.
Technical_Penalty_46@reddit
Hi
nobodyforpres@reddit
tell them your boss grabbed your crotch
gxbcab@reddit
Use a burner phone and make a group chat with your less classy coworkers. Get them to talk inappropriately about you (preferably in a racial or sexual manner) let HR know you’re being harassed and when they inevitably fire you, you can claim it was in retaliation.
stevemajor@reddit
If you get medically recognized as an alcoholic, and start treatment, and tell your boss, then you could sue for medical discrimination if he fires you.
Gsogso123@reddit
You are missing some steps. It’s not like you can say I am an alcoholic and they can never fire you for any reason.
Gsogso123@reddit
Start discussing the new union you are starting up
ostinater@reddit
Come out as gay or trans. If they fire you soon after it's an easy lawsuit. Email your boss and copy anybody else important that you are proudly coming out of the closet and you would like to help the company with any community outreach that they would like to do with the lgbtq community.
No_Mycologist8083@reddit
Do you really not know the word "clothes"?
TLeeLucky@reddit
Yea, wear close.
waterborn234@reddit
What country? America?
I have suggestions if you're Canadian, but I don't know if this stuff works in America
KloudKoala@reddit (OP)
I am American, but let’s hear it
waterborn234@reddit
There's legal stuff you can do to get paid time off work. You'll have to do research on this, labor laws will be different in every state/province.
In canada, you can claim things like "i've got poor mental health" and you get get two weeks paid time off out of it.
wanderlustcunt@reddit
I'm in canada and have poor mental health, how do I get two weeks off?
AliensFuckedMyCat@reddit
Find a puddle to slip on our something to trip down some stairs on.
Broccoli__Robert2001@reddit
Look... I meant to post this a little while ago but I was busy then. And I guess I can only help with ensuring you qualify as "fired" in the first place, just to get the ball rolling. But anyway is this supposed to be ethical or unethical? Because maybe this is unethical but I have an idea, and it can definitely work as long as it's done right. Especially if there's only maybe a couple of specific people in charge of answering the phones, something like secretaries, prior to transferring calls to your boss. How big is your place of employment? And specifically how many people are actually answering the phones? If there's only a couple of people always with direct access to answering the phone lines then you're set. No matter what really happens, if you're fired, or even if you did technically quit, when you file for unemployment, obviously you need to say you were fired. Because your boss will say that you actually left and quit on your own accord, at least that's what mine always did, so that you don't qualify for benefits, and then he won't pay extra for unemployment. Many employers say that every employee quit, no matter the truth, just because they want to avoid unemployment fees and they know the state office of employment will automatically side with their version of the truth. Here is the possibly tricky part. You'll need to convince the people with phone access, maybe with your amazing, wonderful, beautiful, and smooth personality, or otherwise if you don't have that maybe just with a hundred bucks, to always say the boss is gone or unavailable every time the office of employment calls, especially for the review. It's like a trial for you, and will be like not showing up to the trial for them. You need to make sure that you always reply to them and that you do answer when they call for you. That way when the unemployment office needs to compare both sides to decide the case, they'll assume your boss doesn't care enough to answer and they automatically side with you. As long as there's always a gatekeeper answering the phone, and you control the gate keeper, then you're golden. Though this may seem unethical to some, I feel that in certain situations it is actually the most highly ethical. Especially if the employer automatically fights to pay unemployment and always insists that every employee they fired, supposedly quit. Good luck with it all.
By the way it also helps if the secretary people have access to the mail, because they can possibly obfuscate things like letters from the employment office stating dates or anything related to your case.
sage2134@reddit
You can report them for tax fraud and give some information and your suspicions, you have to fill a form but generally if you put in a good faith report or if they are paying people under the table. you are now a protected class while a investigation is underway and even if they fire you and the irs declines or finds nothing you can claim they fired you for retaliation and have a lawsuit that somtimes even state or federal attorney's might file on your behalf. But most likely, have a case
Take notes of possible fraud with dates and time stamps in writing even if its imagative and hearsay about things talk to accounting see if they seem iffy or just ask around or don't but see if the company are paying someone they should be or a part of unreported income depending on what your job is you might have access to some smaybe decent records to show some iffy money going around the company.
Anyway that's what id do.
ParoxysmAttack@reddit
Report them to the IRS for tax fraud. Even if you have zero proof. All companies are hiding something.
Responsible_Taste837@reddit
Slip and fall get workman's comp
bionicallyironic@reddit
I recently had a need to contact employment lawyers to see if I had a potential suit. If you want to get a lawyer to take you on contingency, the action your employer takes against you has to be egregious. Your best bet is if you can get record of some kind of retaliation. Documentation is your new best friend.
KloudKoala@reddit (OP)
This is probably more of a question for a lawyer, but what classifies as retaliation?
Glutenfreesadness@reddit
Example - claiming unsafe work environment/practices to OSHA and your bosses knowing it was you and they fire you or try to make your work life shitty to get you to quit. Plus I believe if it was someone like this you'd be protected as a whistleblower. Something like that
bionicallyironic@reddit
Usually it’s something like, “I pointed out that my boss did XYZ wrong and then I was switched to the night shift even though I have seniority and don’t have transportation at that time.” In certain situations, you could be terminated in retaliation (like the commenter who mentioned being fired after returning from maternity leave). It can look like a lot of things. This is why you need to document everything. If you do approach a lawyer, make sure that your supporting documents all paint a clear picture that backs up your claims. If you can make it all thread together, even better. For example: let’s say you told your boss you have a disability that requires an accommodation and your boss refuses that accommodation. Let’s say you then go to your boss’ boss to complain about the refusal of the accommodation, and a week later you’re fired. That’s a straight line from requesting a reasonable accommodation for a disability to being fired. I’m grossly simplifying things, but that’s the meat of my argument.
Honestly, be prepared to be disappointed. I thought I had a solid complaint (and had two people who have worked in HR for other companies that backed me up), but there wasn’t a single lawyer who would take me on contingency, and I didn’t have the money for a retainer. So I’m back at work after having taken FMLA and keeping my boss on her toes. I’m looking for another job, but I’ve constantly got my head on a swivel in case my boss does anything that could be considered retaliation.
InternationalSalt222@reddit
Pooping on your desk.
toadjones79@reddit
Insist on religious exceptions under the ADA law. It is illegal to deny someone the time off to go to church or do scheduled prayers in almost every job. Transportation is one of the few that can get away with it, but there are still ways of using it (if you aren't moving you should get the time off). 99% of employers refuse to follow this law. They will argue that if they allow you to do it, everyone will want the same time off. Congress specifically addressed that in the 70s and said that was not a legal reason to deny accommodations for religious exemptions.
So join a religion, insist on Sunday afternoons off, and lots of prayer time. Document everything, and do all the communicating via email. If they try to talk to you in person to dissuade you, tell them you want to record it for professional reasons. Tell them you will need that in writing. And when they don't give you written responses, email them repeatedly politely requesting them again and again, including how long they ignored you.
Another one of these is breast feeding women. They are entitled to a room that is not a break room, bathroom, or storage room, that has a lockable door, and the time to use it for pumping milk. They almost never get them even though it is illegal to deny those things. Even if they have to build a new section of a building. Not very well enforced in the courts though.
Get FMLA and use the hell out of it. But count the days so you don't drop your employment under the limit to disqualify you for anything the next year.
Become a raging sycophant. The kind that everyone wants to punch in the face. So bad that it is sickeningly obvious you are doing it just to drive them nuts. Never bring up personal details, like don't say "your so strong/pretty" or anything about their family or where they live.
Have fun.
pasta_always@reddit
You’re not going to be able to collect unemployment if they fire you for a legitimate reason…..
fishtacos8765@reddit
Maybe. But also, 7 of the 8 states I've worked in allow camp staff to file for unemployment at the end of the summer despite it being an obviously seasonal job. But, to your point, this agency never fought unemployment claims and if they would have, probably would have won (seasonal staff and others).
pasta_always@reddit
I work in HR and all it takes is a brief explanation for the reason behind an employee’s termination and an unemployment claim is denied. I live in an at-will employment state
_Dolamite_@reddit
Well, that is a broad statement. Did you turn around as into a steaming pile of shit?
Hard to believe they would want to fire someone that is an amazing performer and makes them a ton of money.
JL9berg18@reddit
What country / state are you in? Labor law is pretty variable from state to state
Miserable_Lock8930@reddit
This is hilarious. It makes sense that the company wants you to quit. You are obviously the type of person who is looking for a lawsuit/gravy train. Maybe just lift your sights up a bit and go get a better job. Leave them in your dust and be better.
KloudKoala@reddit (OP)
I know it may seem like it, but I’m actually not, I really liked this job, but from everything I can see they are getting rid of us solely because they don’t like how we got what they wanted accomplished accomplished
Miserable_Lock8930@reddit
This is your character no one else.
Miserable_Lock8930@reddit
You wrote the post… it doesn’t SEEM like it. You literally are asking how you can sue instead of taking the opportunity to just better yourself. If you spend time and energy researching how to get over on someone, you are wasting your resources. Put that research time to better use.
Jim-Jones@reddit
Talking of cleaning up a store:
https://notalwaysright.com/the-epic-of-the-impossible-store/172885/
Won't help you but ...
True-Act128@reddit
Turn them into osha and make sure they know you did it.
Spirit117@reddit
If you have OSHA or similar in your country
-create unsafe working condition -report to OHSA
congratulations, now you are a whisteblower and you claim retaliation if they fire you.
Negative_Whole_6855@reddit
Here's a genius idea! Post a thread on the internet how you're trying to do this so anyone who might investigate it finds this and denies your claim