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myheadfelloff@reddit

My grandma told me Kroger didn’t have good gasoline

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Explosive-Space-Mod@reddit

Kroger isn't a top tier gas station because they don't make it themselves they source it from other companies.

They typically get their gas from Shell (top tier company) but not all the time so it can vary depending on their annual gas contracts.

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Mountainman1980@reddit

True. Kroger fuel can be Top Tier depending on where they happen to source their fuel at the time, but it's not guaranteed to be Top Tier, hence it's not advertised as such.

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47-30-23N_122-0-22W@reddit

Their gas discounts are really good if you shop there otherwise Kroger gas stations are inconvenient enough as is.

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myheadfelloff@reddit

Just learning from all this that my grandma was kinda correct, as it's not Top Tier gas... Kroger gas stations are convenient to me and the discounts are good. Debatable if it's worth it though

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GetawayDriving@reddit

For me it’s 3 reasons:

Top tier. Legit or not, I’ll choose it.
Payment app. I use the apps that activate the pumps to avoid credit card skimmers. The apps also have loyalty points for money back.
Some brands will reliably have 93 or 94 octane. My sports car demands it.

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2 is a great point. Never thought about that. Wish Costco would do that.

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scarletohairy@reddit

My understanding is that Costco gas attendants check the pumps for skimmers every morning.

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I cant wait

to completely

Twenty something years ago, when I was in vocational school for automotive, a teacher told me "for some things automotive, brands don't matter, when it comes to gasoline additive packages, it does." Then proceeded to explain how Techron and V-power had pretty good chemical engineering behind them, and work pretty well to keep your valves and injectors clean. Whereas generic gas doesn't have this. He cited some engine teardowns, to prove his point. Said generic gas ok some of the time, but not all of the time. He was a smart guy. He wrote some of California's Emissions laws, which are propagated throughout the nation.

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MrProvy@reddit

https://www.toptiergas.com/consumer-faqs/

Any if the top tier gas brand must pass specific standards for detergents in all grades of gasoline; the brand gas stations are randomly tested in order to maintain that status. The detergent blend is added at the stations, not at the depot, and it's my understanding that the brands are strict with the stations at maintaining the additives.

Top Tier was initiated by General motors, Toyota, and BMW in the late 90s due to excessive carbon built up in combustion Chambers and intakes that led to valve and piston failures under manufacturer warranty. These manufacturers, after determining that the epa's minimum detergent requirement was nowhere near enough to prevent the excess carbon buildup that led to these failures, concluded that was a minimum that would prevent the carbon build up. If you look at the history of top tier, for at least a decade there were only two or three gasoline retailers that met the requirements, one of which was shell gasoline.

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wratx@reddit

I recently switched to only top tier gas stations….had to make some changes to my routine but car is running great

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thebraxton@reddit

I'm using the cheap gasoline and my car is also running great

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ClickKlockTickTock@reddit

I inherited a car that only ran the cheapest fuel at 180k and the pistons had so much buildup that it was misfiring

Years of top tier fuel has eliminated that.

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Busy_Account_7974@reddit

My SO would fill up at the cheapest station on the way home from work. I noticed that her mileage is like the low teens when it should be 20+. I started filling it at the Top Tier station across the street from the cheapie and after a few tanks, the mileage started to creep up.

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I just sold some of my corn 2 days ago for $3.86 The high near here was 35 miles away at $4.10

50 years ago 1974, the average price was $3.20 That year, the high was $3.95

So my dad, who has been farming all of those 50 years, basically got a $0.66 raise per bushel raise, definitely not double even in 50 years!

Politicians like it because it fits a small niche of green energy and is good for the economy! Farmers are a small group in the grand scheme, and typically, most politicians don't give two shits about us! That's why you don't see many rallies in rural America!

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suspiciousumbrella@reddit

The part you aren't mentioning is that the cost of producing that corn today is much lower than it was 50 years ago due to better technology and economies of scale. Giving a massive handout to farmers to grow corn for fuel instead of investing in better longer term future energy sources isn't helping the economy, just propping up. Not to mention that corn could actually feed people instead of cars.

Ethanol is bad for engines, period. The life expectancy of small engines has dropped dramatically since ethanol was put into the gas supply. And it's not particularly good for normal cars either.

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technoferal@reddit

There is a lot more they aren't mentioning:
https://www.macrotrends.net/2532/corn-prices-historical-chart-data

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dodexahedron@reddit

Yeah. All of this and the world economy is a different beast than 50 years ago which adds competitive price pressure on top of competitive pressure inside our borders due to all those technological improvements.

I'd wager that doubling is potentially even low-balling the effect from the artificially created demand, since it waaaayyyyyy outpaces consumption of corn for food purposes.

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danielcc07@reddit

Non ethanol has the same rack price as ethanol. It's about the corn...

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Dud3whereismyclit@reddit

Actually, to produce the same amount of power, you can raise the compression ratio higher. The alcohol burns cooler, which reduces no2. It's the reason many people with high performance and forced induction run e85. There is more oxygen in alcohol than gasoline. So you need to add more fuel so it doesn't burn lean.

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your_anecdotes@reddit

it doesn't burn "cleaner" this is a lie perpetrated by governments around the world..

Because more energy is required to produce it. See laws of thermodynamics....

it's called Green washing....

Ethanol creates MASS pollution to refine... not to mention methane gas from rotting plant matter after it ends up in landfills..

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No_Resolution_9252@reddit

It is indisputable fact that ethanol combusts to fewer emissions than gasoline does.

How it gets there is not related to how clean it burns on its own. The energy to produce it comes primarily from the sun. The merits of its efficiency has nothing to do with it

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your_anecdotes@reddit

See laws of thermodynamics..

the amount of methane gas created by the waste product is enormous

so the only choices is burning the waste product or methane gas in a landfill

lets not forget the fertilizers, pesticides herbicides,water wastage etc..

each step requires fossil fuels those tractors and airplanes don't run on Hopium

why is that being ignored?

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No_Resolution_9252@reddit

Good job demonstrating you only understand what you are talking about as well as the parent of a high school teacher reading the cover of their text book.

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noeyedpete@reddit

Why would a teacher’s parent be reading the cover of their textbook, and who would care what they think? 🤔

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your_anecdotes@reddit

You have to grow corn to get ethanol it doesn't magically appear. buddy are you delusional or something?

Years of top tier fuel has eliminated that.

Probably….there’s probably a study out there about teeth brushing but I haven’t read that….i still brush my teeth though

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thebraxton@reddit

You brush your teeth because your parents told you to, it became a habit, and you haven't questioned the effectiveness.

thebraxton@reddit

I feel bad now, I'm sorry how blunt that was, I just think anecdotal evidence is a huge blight on society

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wratx@reddit

Lol it’s all good….im just over hearing crying with my expensive gas

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DEVOmay97@reddit

I go to Costco. Top tier gas at a lower price than even the shittiest gas station. I also dump a can of seafoam in the tank every time I do an oil change to help eliminate carbon buildup before it gets bad.

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thebraxton@reddit

The oil change is smart in a DI, especially if it's older than 5 to 8 years. Poor piston ring design leads to carbon building up in the holes they cut to allow the scraped oil to flow faster.

Hi

Why would the intake have carbon in it? PCV?

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Slotter-that-Kid@reddit

In my area Costco is Arco gas

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userhwon@reddit

Didn't they merge like 20 years ago?

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PieTight2775@reddit

If only I had the patience for the 20 minute wait

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alb_taw@reddit

I go with my wife - we enjoy the chance to talk during the car ride. When we get there, we divide and conquer with one getting gas and the other getting the groceries. Obviously that won't work for everyone, but it does for us.

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narwhal_breeder@reddit

I was too, but I got over it - I do also have a 4matic wagon - but the GR does pretty great all things considered.

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MrProvy@reddit

I suspect you haven't used Top tier Gasolines

Overlap is the camshaft timing between the intake and exhaust valves. The overlap lets some exhaust out into the intake manifold.

A poorly designed EGR, PCV, or cam overlap will absolutely fill the I take woth crud.

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MrProvy@reddit

I agree, and the added detergents in the mix help keep that crud from sticking

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nibbles200@reddit

The build up on the valve stems never came from the fuel in the first place. Older port injection would spray gas into the intake runners which would clean any oil off on the valve stem. This oil comes down from the valve train above. Now things are done to minimize this as much as possible with valve stem seals but it’s not perfect.

So now the oil weeps down and cokes on the base of the stem as the combustion cycle heats the valve. Also fun is that the fuel in port injection would cool the intake valve so it wouldn’t coke the oil and would just get washed off.

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Emotional-Ladder7457@reddit

It's added when loading at the loading rack not at the station.i have 7 years of fuel delivery in CA so I definitely know. If the additive is off it must be fixed before leaving the loading facility. If a load of fuel is delivered to a different brand by mistake the stations whole fuel tank must be emptied because the additives must match the brand. It is interesting to know that Chevron holds most of the additive patents.

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blinkenjim@reddit

Thanks. I feel a bit better knowing it’s not added at the station. I could see some small-time owner saving money by skimping or eliminating the additive. Probably less chance of that if it’s added by the distributor, yes?

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texaschair@reddit

All true. If the additive blend ratio isn't right, the rack will "alarm out" immediately, and you better pray the terminal employees can fix it quickly. If not, you're pumping it all back, and either trying again or going to a different rack. I had to do this a couple of times when I was a driver. Good thing I got paid by the hour.

some of the really cheap places mix theirs with some water

How would this even work?

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dwkfym@reddit

gas engines tolerate a suprising amount of water in the fuel-- even good fresh gas has some water in it from condensation, atmospheric condensation, etc. Leave a full, sealed jar of gas for a month or two and watch it separate itself from water.

Here is an example:
https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/minnesota-commerce-dept-investigating-after-drivers-find-water-mixed-in-with-fuel-pump-gasoline/

Gas stations also 'water down' their fuel by adding more ethanol than stated at the pump. Like I said in my previous comment.

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Coro-NO-Ra@reddit

OK but you also said they "mix theirs with some water."

That's quite a bit different than excess condensation/moisture in a tank. How did you think pouring water into gasoline, a petroleum product, would actually work in practice?

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dwkfym@reddit

Yes, I'm saying the shady places either add or let their gas get condensed up.

Fuel with a lot of water in it will look cloudy. Fuel with a few more % points will just look like fuel. It won't be like what you're envisioning - like pouring oil on top of water until its a LOT of water.

With modern fuel injected vehicles you won't see immediate affect aside from reduced fuel economy. The big issue is when its already at the cusp of being really bad, then condensation adds even more water, when it starts really damaging things in a car.

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texaschair@reddit

Ethanol absorbs water. Ethanol is stored separately at the terminals, and blended in at the loading rack. I've never seen an ethanol blend more than 10%, unless it was supposed to be E85.

Shit, I must not be. Here I am always draining watery gas out of my non-running engines like a noob.
Ffs…

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thecoat9@reddit

Shit, I must not be. Here I am always draining watery gas out of my non-running engines like a noob.

Try changing your fuel filters once in a while :P. (just yanking your chain).

IDK how they do it at the stations, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was automated underground somehow. When you say a kid, when are we talking; Top tier want implemented till the late 90's/early 2000's.

I can attest to the effectiveness, as my 2006 Chevy's (owned since new) had just about no carbon build up anywhere in the top end.

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WachaganoovaMan@reddit

I hauled fuel for a small oil company in CO for a few years and all of our trailers had additive tanks for top tier. It could be injected whenever you wanted. I think most guys would probably add it after loading so it would mix better on the drive. I was local delivery driving a tank wagon and every once in a while had to cover for one of our large trucks. My truck didn't have an additive tank so I had to do it the old fashioned way: dump it out of a jug into the hole before dropping the fuel.

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SamuraiJono@reddit

It's added at the fuel racks automatically.

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Big_Bill23@reddit

This is the answer.

"carbon deposits" is caused by oil being burned not by the fuel it self...

it's hard to blame the fuel when the blame was directly on GM toyota and BMW for poor craftsmanship

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ridethe907@reddit

The additive package is not added at the station. It's injected into the fuel as it's loaded in the truck at the loading rack. The loading rack has multiple tanks with the different brands of additive with their own lines and as the fuel is loaded the additive system reads a flow meter and pulses the correct amount of additive over the duration of the load.

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TankDestroyerSarg@reddit

I've worked at name brand gas stations, and that detergent adding is BS in my experience. The fuel arrives on the truck mixed and ready to go. We did absolutely nothing to it. The only fuel quality issue that we really had to have any worry about was water in the tanks from rain and snow.

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MrProvy@reddit

Please refer to this post...

https://www.reddit.com/r/askcarguys/s/aFH4XMHa1V

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Sunshine635@reddit

Costco gas is Top Tier btw

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Greedy-Assistance663@reddit

My '95 pickup that's lived its life in a very rural area 6 miles from the ocean has only ever had access to whatever gasoline was cheapest to ship to the island and has never had a fuel issue aside from a metal section of fuel line wearing thin enough to cause a leak.

I suppose gasoline is a case where most people only have their lived anecdotal experiences to go off of.

However, I will never put ethanol gas in any of my small engines and I will die on that hill

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texaschair@reddit

My bike, lawn mower, boat, and anything 2-stroke that I own doesn't get ethanol. Ethanol is mandated in this state, but I can get clear gas down the street at a small oil company. And I live on a border with another state, so I can cross the river and get clear gas there if needed. A 5 gallon jug of clear gas is more than enough for my yard equipment for a year. My boat, with it's 60 gallon tank, is another story.

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mmikke@reddit

Easy enough to seperate out ethanol yourself too, but you'll need to add an octane booster if using 87

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OnePalpitation4197@reddit

I think you're correct with most of this. An old truck I had only had the cheapest gas put in it and it so ran like a top at 250k miles. No misfire and no injector replacements.

The ethanol in small engines is a little bit different. As long as it doesn't prohibit the use of 10% ethanol then it's fine to be used. The thing you don't want to do with ethanol is store it too long. It absorbs water and that's what makes things go bad in any engine, not just small engines. Small engines are just more susceptible to it.

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dubiousN@reddit

Just a reminder that you should only be using Premium/93 if your car calls for it.

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runfayfun@reddit

Exactly, some engines can use all grades and variably adapt but generally it doesn't do anything unless your car is designed to use it

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Outside-Fly-6442@reddit

Cheap gas and just throw some injector cleaner in there and it'll be fine

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sukyn00b@reddit

This is true.

Worked as a chemical engineer in Oil and Gas.

Shell was known for having the best additives (we just called them detergents). I worked for two different competitors (both oil majors).

One small thing of common knowledge: if you always ran junky fuel for the life of your vehicle, switching to a high quality fuel may: 1. be too late, 2. Risky in that it may cause "chunks" of build up to break off and cause blockages.

That being said, I am not brand loyal and just fill up wherever it's cheap... But I've always driven "proven" long term engined vehicles (Chevy 5.3L, and Honda's). I think you'll run into other issues long before you have a problem because of the detergents in the gasoline. My one vehicle has over 200k miles.

If I owned a lambo, I'd probably only purchase shell (I can afford to.. lol) and the engine is significantly more sensitive.

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dubiousN@reddit

How is ExxonMobil?

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trexwalters@reddit

Fuck your dad if he was the one who wrote the emissions laws that don’t allow enthusiast car people to build their cars. State with the most car enthusiasts in the country and now no one can do simple shit like a tune. Should’ve made emissions laws that target the large corporations and rich individuals that fly 800 times a year in private jets, you know the ones who actually pollute. Not the common car guys who cause a tiny tiny tiny fraction of emissions pollution.

If your dad didn’t write those parts of the laws, then good on him and I hope he has a great day.

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right415@reddit

Wow you have some anger ! Just a teacher at a school I went to decades ago. I exclusively tinkered with pre smog cars when I lived in California. Also I had a smog license, which allowed me certain abilities, if you know what I mean. Same teacher taught classes necessary to get smog license...

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Dam you must of went the Harvard of vocational schools. My car gets way better MPG running v power I'm not shocked its just better gas.

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Could easily continue to run 87 octane and put fuel system cleaner every 5000 miles or so through the tank- Chevron Techron or similar. Would likely come out ahead cost wise.

Yes, “smog” is just a California term for emission testing.

loloilspill@reddit

What year was this? An engine wouldnt run with that much water and with today's ethanol, it would phase separate and you'd be running an ethanol water mixture.

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Blog_Pope@reddit

It was 40+ years ago (like 38+ I heard the story from a guy that worked there and saw them sample the underground tanks), and I suspected today's alcohol blends make that less of an issue. My understanding is the tanks got unusually low and siphoned a LOT of water into this poor guys car, which fucked up the works enough he sued and won.

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No-Comfortable9480@reddit

What are ways a normal consumer can tell if the station have well maintained gas pumps?

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ArchdukeOfNorge@reddit

The water intrusion is a big concern for me, because I have a diesel and I live in a climate where I have to turn the car over in -20°F in the winter. Aside from the water issue, for winter diesel driving, using the same additives is important too. My dad sells diesel for Love’s and when I got this car he told me to make sure not to use different diesels because the winter additives from different diesel brands could mix poorly and increase the chances of gelled fuel.

Because people are weird. Any big name gas station is adequate, as long as the pumps are maintained properly it really doesnt make a difference, places that add detergents and whatnot are a little better than the “basic” fuels, but that shit doesn’t really do all that much unless you run that specific places fuel for the entire life of the car.

Though cheap no name gas stations are MAJOR no go, they do far less if any maintenance, which can causr you to get water in your fuel. This happens all the time, unfortunately the savings are not worth it at all. Theres actually 3 gas stations near the farm i work at that got in trouble for exactly this in the last 2 months.

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Chester_Warfield@reddit

my father in law was a pilot for the big giant fuel tanker ships for 40 years and carried all kinds of fuel all over the U.S.

He told me that all the gas companies trucks sit in the same line for fuel and get the exact same stuff. The difference is some have a little jug they pour in to the tanker trucks with the fuel and some don't.

He couldn't speak on what is in that little jug or what it does, but that's the deal as far as I know.

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wolfman86@reddit

I avoid Morrisons here cause it’s meant to be shit fuel, I think all supermarkets are, and you can tell by how your car runs if you switch to something like Shell or Texaco. I was under the impression all fuel had to be a certain stand, but hey ho.

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ShopMajesticPanchos@reddit

To me this is a self-fulfilling prophecy, if you can afford this you basically can afford homeless people to lick your butt clean, so I don't really think it's a problem.

Am I the only one who views it this way? I can't remember the last time I had enough effort value left, to >>decide which gas station to go to.

Maybe I'm just completely out of the loop, but I cannot fathom this.

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hagemeyp@reddit

I always buy top tier gas. https://www.toptiergas.com/

It is legit.

Also higher octane levels only benefit engines that need or can make use of them. Detergents and additives benefit everyone.

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xabrol@reddit

Yep, my 07 highlander has 210,000, starts on the first crank.

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Sqooky@reddit

Question: I've poked around at the site for a little bit and it generally seems like there's a list of "good vendors" that meet their qualifications on their Top Tier Detergent Gasoline document, But is there a specific ranking system as to how vendor a compares to b with specific? I'd expect an organization like this to provide details within a few clicks on their site.

Surely some brands prevent (let's say) Carbon build-up better than others due to (let's say) a more concentrated anti-carbon deposit additive?

Totally possible I've missed it - I had a couple drinks tonight.

I've also seen some people say Costco gas is some of the cheapest and "best". I guess im looking for the criteria that defines defacto "to buy" over "best" and "better". if that makes sense.

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LITTELHAWK@reddit

It isn't set up that way. To be listed, you just have to prove your fuel meets the minimum requirement.

More marketing than actual science.

Market share.

If you engineer a car to run on 91+ octane, your buyer will pay about 1 20% premium for fuel, which would keep the budget concious away.

Yeah, just for an another example. The EA888 Gen IV in my car makes it's rated crank HP to the wheels on 87. A software tune on a bone stock car can make over 320 wheel hp on 93 and almost 350 lb/ft. Somehow APR has managed to offer a tune that makes really good power while also keeping the car running 87.

Vancity Audi has tested his mk8 GTI on 93 octane on a stock engine tune and made no more power.

Octane is determined by fuel type: regular, plus, premium. You should use the octane level recommended by your car manufacturer.

I see so many people mixing these two very different criteria up.

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Odd_Activity_8380@reddit

Octane is the rating in which how fast and completely the fuel burns in a given cycle.

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sukyn00b@reddit

Yes. Thank you, I knew the definition of octane. I am a chemical engineer in the O&G industry.

My point was for the others responding to your post affirming your original post by saying that this is why they buy premium gas. I am trying to help people understand that "premium" is has nothing to do with the quality of the gas, that it is an indicator of octane. And that octane and quality are not synonymous.

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Odd_Activity_8380@reddit

Ah ok sorry. Yeah they are getting quality and octane mixed up

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tatang2015@reddit

I use chevron from a specific location. I did actual controlled experiments with my 2004 Honda Accord when it was 5 years old. It began getting absurd engine vibrations.

At that time I was only going to a chevron near my house. I switched to Chevron located near the expensive houses. The crazy vibrations stopped after two fill ups.

I’m not a snobby Porsche driver (snobby VW driver) but I always use chevron in my vehicles (and corresponding octane level recommend by the manufacturer)

Raptor_197@reddit

They also are never cheaper than gas anywhere else either.

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found the top tier fuels sales guy

I buy the cheapest shit possible. I've driven multiple cars over 250k miles.

04limited@reddit

It really only take life off the top end. So you likely won’t notice anything if you sell the car before 100k, 150k, maybe even 200k.

I ran sams club gas for years before they closed in my city. Now I run Costco & BJs gas. Car runs fine for me so I’ll stick with it. Unfortunately for me there’s no good brand gas stations around me. Just generic sonocos, speedway etc. no special additives. There is a mobil 1 in town but it’s at a weird 3 way intersection so going there is a hassle.

I’m late but I used to travel for casino gas because it was so cheap. But I swear it depleted significantly faster, like 20% faster

Also back in the day either performance cars or older cars needed higher octane gas to perform and not "ping". I had an older car that would ping on acceleration and "diesel" when shut off with low octane fuel. But modern regular cars can use the regular lowest octane and run normally (they are designed for it).

I have lots of seat time test driving and on-dyno testing. I'm very sensitive to any type of engine acoustic around years of being trained for different types of detonation, ping, knock, etc.

Twigler@reddit

Costco makes a killing on memberships

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topkrikrakin@reddit

I provided the Fleet Farm example specifically to negate the membership aspect of funding

Fleet Farm will give you an extra 5 or 3 cents off per gallon when you make a purchase in the store and scan the receipt at the pump. But any geek off the street can get the gas for 30 cents cheaper than anywhere else in town

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Twigler@reddit

I have never heard of them before, maybe we don't have them here. Are they top tier?

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topkrikrakin@reddit

No, they do not deliver top tier fuel

They are a farm and tractor supply store with hunting, food, and seasonal items

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stackin_papers@reddit

Some gas brands are hit by skimmers more often than others.

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chrissy__chris@reddit

For diesel I will always use Shell if it’s not overpriced. Where I live, Shell is typically $0.50-$1.00 more expensive than the other local stations, but in other towns they can actually have competitive prices. My TDI will get 800 miles in an 18-gallon tank with Shell diesel, but not even 650 miles with any other station’s diesel.

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traumahawk88@reddit

Same reason they go for a certain brand of anything over other brands; they want to.

I've more got certain brands of gas I avoid; any time I've needed dry gas ... It's been because of Mobil. I recently discovered my intermittent emissions code on my car is because I filled up at a local chain gas station (something pointed out by my brother and his wife who have the same issue with both their vehicles whenever they fill at the same station

What’s much more important than brand is to use the proper octane rating; I see so many people whose engines are designed for regular pumping super into their tanks…

Another factor that’s probably also more important than brand is how full (and how old) the station’s tank is: when it’s low, you might be getting some of the crud that’s sitting in the bottom. Also, if I see that the truck is filling their tanks, I go to another station or wait until the next day because the crud in the tank is probably getting stirred around.

If you want the benefit of top tier gas, go ahead and splurge, but you can probably save some money by using it every second tankful instead of all the time.

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Gunk_Olgidar@reddit

With loyalty programs, you can often get top tier gas at a similar price, to only one or two cents more per gallon.

2017CurtyKing@reddit

I try to go to quick trip exclusively because they have a fuel guaranty that will cover you if you get bad fuel from them.

Unless if there is a Casey’s near by. Their pizza is good

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Fragrant_Actuary_596@reddit

Because some gas brands are known for being shady. Mixing water into the gas.

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There is a difference in Top Tier fuels. There is also a difference in the additive packages used. Chevron used Techron and Shell uses a Nitrogen based additive.

Also, some brands recommend a specific brand of fuel. For example, BMW recommends Shell.

The base fuel is all the same and comes from the exact same place. It’s all in the additives.

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Sad_Faithlessness_99@reddit

All gas us pretty much tbe same they all come from same depots and refineries and storage tanks. So if you're in a small town or city not near an area with multiple refineries then all your gasoline regardless of station brand is coming from same refinery or depot, just the additives are different, some depots have separate tanks for Top Tier. The only other thing is the gas station ensure they have clean storage tanks.

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Sparky_Zell@reddit

Aside from the additives in certain brands. The big brands will hold the gas stations to their standards.

People suck. And some people suck more than others. And some of those end up owning gas stations and will do whatever they can to make extra money. Sometimes it is using old or bad fuel. Sometimes it is messing with the pumps.

I actually got the day off of work, paid, one day because one of the gas stations we were constantly using to fill up about 10 company trucks at least 1-2 times a week were tampering with their pumps.

I know for a fact that I had a 16.3 gallon tank in my truck. Well one day I had to take mine to the job site, and I had to fill up. I'm not paying too much attention, but when I saw the total it seemed too high. I got charged for 18 gallons and change.

I went inside to say something that is pump was messed up. And the owner cussed me out. Said I was trying to scam him, etc. I said I had gas in the tank, and I only have a 16 gallon tank. How the fuck did I pump over 18. He still got an attitude. So I told him I was calling the cops and he starting panicking.

So I called the department of agriculture weights and measured. And they had me stay put with my receipt. And I ended up meeting first with a state trooper because they were closer. Than an an FBI agent showed up and handled the investigation. While I was there. And within an hour the owner was in handcuffs and the doors were chained shut and taped off.

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SnooChickens7845@reddit

I only run shell v power in my bikes. They’re carbureted. Apparently there’s less ethanol than other company’s super.

If nothing else it makes me feel good

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Heykurat@reddit

There isn't any meaningful difference between major brands like Chevron, 76, Valero, etc. They do contain detergents that help keep interior parts of the engine clean.

Some people claim to notice that gasoline from places like Rotten Robbie and the rando independent stations is lesser quality that contains more impurities and lacks detergents. I have no idea if that is true.

Octane rating does matter. You should use the kind your car is made for. That's going to either be premium (91 or 92) or the basic one (87). There aren't really any cars made to use 89 so the extra cost is pointless.

Putting higher octane fuel in a modern car that isn't designed for it is a waste of money and will confer no benefits.

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inorite234@reddit

This.

I still haven't seen any real longterm studies done that show a marked difference.

Note, even your owners manual says to use injector cleaner every other fillup so if there are detergents or such, they may do nothing that the injector cleaner is already doing.

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Heykurat@reddit

Or it may just be that you should use injector cleaner if you aren't using gas with detergents in it. I've never heard of fuel injector cleaner being considered a routine aspect of car maintenance.

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With an asterisk and a 3 which indicates only if top tier fuel is not available.

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inorite234@reddit

Genuine curiosity.

Killarogue@reddit

Chevron is the 8th largest oil company in the world, comparable to Shell, and if your username is actually representative of where you live, you've absolutely seen their stations.

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47-30-23N_122-0-22W@reddit

My username is a specific location, but nowhere near where I live.

UnauthorizedUser505@reddit

Because the quality of gas at places like BP or smaller stations is garbage. There are additives that keep the system clean. Those additives cost money. I can sell gas without them cheaper, or add them and the price goes up a little but you are selling a quality product. If you don't care about longevity with your engine then don't worry about it.

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steveoa3d@reddit

Just had this conversation today while collecting samples at a gas station today.

The base product of all the brands is the same, comes up the pipelines from the refineries to the local terminals then gets distributed to the stations. Then the Shell or BP or Top Tier or Citgo additives get added at the terminal to make the product for the brand.

Petroleum products inspectors like myself make sure the base product meets the ASTM distillation standards, the sulfur content, the RVP and Octane. The additives are in such small quantities we can’t even tell if they are in the samples when we run them at the lab.

In my state all the fuel gets a basic detergent additive, if it’s “Top Tier” it gets 2x the additive. Are the name brands additives better ? Hard to say, would have to run only one brand gasoline for a long time and compare to another engine that just had the basic additive.

My car is direct injection so I run premium but I don’t care about the brand or the brands additives.

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bigblackglock17@reddit

It doesn’t really matter. We have certain fuel quality laws in place. This isn’t Mexico or something where gasoline is hit or miss.

I feed my car the cheapest gas I can find and just passed 205k miles the other week. Although I did buy it at 163k.

20 years ago, this might of been true. These days, I highly doubt it.

209john@reddit

I use top tier in my motorcycle but in my low power Focus that I had i always used the cheapest. In fact, during the time I owned that car, I worked for a dismantler, I would use any gas that I would get from them bc I didn’t think it would make a difference in a low power car like that. It ran for 235,000 miles with no problem. To me, it depends on the engine; high power needs top tier, lower power engines do not.

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teakesdad@reddit

My father used to deliver gas/ diesel/chemicals/CHOCOLATE!!/ etc in a tanker( different tanks!) He said all the gas comes from one of a few refineries. V-power? Ok add this to the tank. Techron? Same deal add to tank and then fill with fuel. It’ll mix during filling and on the way there.

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nonotburton@reddit

So, I expect amongst most of the gas stations it doesn't really matter, because they pretty much all get their stuff from the same set of distributors.

However, the third rate, trashy, unkempt stores is what I stay away from, largely because the handful of times I've gotten fuel with water in it, it came from ill maintained fuel stations. It happens at all fuel stations, but the well maintained places check fuel and water content in their tanks every night. I presume they do something if the water content is too high.

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countsachot@reddit

Around 20 years ago BP would stall my camaro 100%, of the time.

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ReebX1@reddit

Same reason people recommend sticking to good quality motor oils with detergent additives. You don't want build up in your engine. Things tend to last longer that way.

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WhiskeyDabber67@reddit

While there can be a difference in fuel prices, I haven’t seen 60-70 cents per gallon discrepancies at the stations around me. There’s a difference between my neighborhood and 20-30 minutes north in more rural areas, but that’s normally like 30-40 cents a gallon for diesel at most.

That being said, I’m very particular where I get fuel. I’ve purchased bad diesel before ( lots of water in it ) and got stuck paying for a tow and shop bill to drain the fuel tank and system etc. I typically fuel up at the same gas station franchises (Kwik-trip or Casey’s) and won’t buy fuel from smaller gas stations if I have the option.

The tanker trucks (8-9,000 gallons in US) have multiple compartments. Additives are blended according to purchaser for each compartment at the terminal.

Without compartments it would take 4 seperate trips just for the three grades of gas and diesel.

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ferio252@reddit

This supports what I originally found, that gas in your area, no matter what brand, comes from the same distribution hub.

The only difference is each brand gets a different additive package.

You will save money at the pump by filling up at non top tier stations, but it will cost you in other ways.

thecoat9@reddit

Refined gasoline is effectively only differentiated by octane rating. It becomes branded gasoline when the tanker trucks are loaded at the nearest rack. What makes branded gasoline branded is the additives that are added to the tanker fuel. These additives are the proprietary mixture that you are paying extra for, and they do have a function essentially they help lubricate and clean the internal parts of your cars motor. How well they work between different brands is certainly debatable, but you do to at least some extent get what you pay for. Basically higher priced fuel brands because of these additives are better for your cars motor, you'll have better lubrication and thus less stress on the internals and less carbon build up over the life time of the vehicle. IE your motor should last longer and you should get more miles out of the car before catastrophic engine failure.

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Ancient-Bowl462@reddit

Wow, these comments. Buy a Honda or Toyota and put the cheap stuff in and never have a problem. Even my Denali, a GMC of all things, went to 400k without issues when I sold it. I did do Amsoil every 20k miles though.

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I'd say as long as your chosen station is using Top Tier™ gas, then you're likely a lot better off than those that don't. The main benefit you're looking for is cleaner burning...if you can reduce carbon build up in your engine, it can extend its life and even better your fuel economy.

iMakeBoomBoom@reddit

Where are you located that the brand name gas costs 60-70 cents more than generic? I have never seen generic vary by more than 10 cents, if that much.

I don’t want to sound like I’m calling you out on a fake number, but yeah, I am.

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HeThatHawed@reddit

6 years in the oil and gas field. All the gas comes in the same(given that it’s the same mixture type, ethanol heavy gas would be mixed at the tank level and then pipped to the truck rack) but at the truck rack where the trucks load fuel they can have different recipes for your fuel depending on the company/station. The only gasoline fuel that is different are at BP stations, they use (1) more additive than everyone else. But all of it comes from the same pipeline/storage tank.

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thissucksnuts@reddit

Cheaper gas is cheaper now, sure, but it won't be so cheap when you or your engine realizes you've been running 70% gasoline and 30% water through it.

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BuckManscape@reddit

Generic gas is garbage. No additives and probably more water in tank due to less maintenance.

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soggysocks6123@reddit

In my city I simply avoid certain brands. Just Because they’ve made mistakes like putting diesel in the regular fuel supply. I avoid those kinds of places for the rest of my time living here.

Sure maybe I’ll pay 3 cents more a gallon elsewhere but if I was worried about that, little of difference, I wouldn’t be driving a 6 cylinder vehicle.

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Chronixx780@reddit

Its common sense the higher the price usually means better quality product

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GTIguy2@reddit

Well not always

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michaelpaoli@reddit

A quart of water from the gas pump would be one helluva reason I'm relatively picky, and some brands and entire chains I won't touch. Also knew someone who got a bunch of sawdust in their gasoline from one off-brand station.

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DIRTBOY12@reddit

Gasoline is produced by a few refineries. Gas station t6ruck get it there or at the port, where there fuel trucks are. The brands additives are added from there to get the BRAND or Top Tier names. Chevron and Shell have the best additives, followed by Marathon/Valero and Mobil.

Gas at the refineries does get refined into tow grades. Top Tier and Regular.

All gas in the US is quality, period. All have additives now that are good.

It is also more the station you et gas at and are their tanks maintained.

I was told this information from, top professional mechanics, Gas refinery personal and someone who owned a station.

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pir8salt@reddit

In my area the Chevron gas is bad, like bad bad. Has water in it from time to time, the seals to insure its not tampered with are always broken, and even at the best times makes my car run poorly.

covidcode69@reddit

I get 10 cents off every gallon

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My_friends_are_toys@reddit

My dad who was a self taught mechanic told me that different companies have different additives. And that larger companies typically have better research. He also said that companies like Chevron, Shell, etc use better storage for gasoline at the pump and that water and other contaminates get into gas.

Of course this was back in the 80s and that some of the lower tier brands could be better.

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mythrowawayuhccount@reddit

I use parkers gas starions a regional brand.

They have a garuntee if their gas causes any engine issue, theyll fix or replace.

https://parkerskitchen.com/fuel-concerns/

You can call and ask quesrions and theyll tell you what refineries they use, what additives and how much, and email you testing data.

Pretty transparent.

https://parkerskitchen.com/parkers-hires-oil-and-gas-supply-chain-veteran-ricky-a-john-as-vice-president-of-fuel/

In Detroit, when they did epa testing they used to bring in tankers of chevron because at the time chevron didn't have franchises in the region.

In the MD/Virginia area for a long time mechanics shops, especially for performance vehicles and motorcycles would have signs up saying "if you use sheetz gas we won't service your vehicle"

Brand absolutely matters, mostly its about how clean it is, keeping from having nasty build up in your engine. That's why the E85 has never took off and dwindled fast. Engines running it got trashed too quick.

Now, alot of those no name shops actually buy the same gas, but are cheaper because they don't pay franchise fees, and don't have to set pricing based on corporate rates.

Once upon a time, might still be true, but BP stations didn't necessarily use BP gas, wasn't a requirement on franchisees. But ARCO stations all use BP fuel. Gotta do the homework if it matters to you.

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dezertryder@reddit

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JellyfishQuiet7944@reddit

Married into an O&G family and they're all the same. The specific grades are different but each brand has their own additives and formulas.

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jpnc97@reddit

Seems like they dont know much about their own industry

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Perth_R34@reddit

I do it for the best cashback deal

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ak80048@reddit

Chevron Techron is better than even most shells and Exxon , its ten times better than something like Valero

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amotion578@reddit

Similar--

I discovered quasi-hidden cetane ratings for diesel by brand

Found out Chevron is the highest cetane I can get in regular #2 diesel anywhere near me for hundreds of thousands of miles. Conveniently, between 3 fuel stations, one is a Chevron

I think racetrac was highest cetane diesel #2?

At least I've never seen a cetane rating at any fuel station ever.

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boostsensei@reddit

Had to switch to Shell V-Power as the QuikTrip gas (both 91 here in AZ) would cause engine stutter while accelerating on my civic si (factory turbo). After switching, issues were gone.

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user92111@reddit

I've wondered if it's the same line of thought for diesel fuel. But sifting through adds and influencers has been a bear. And I have seen a 0.000mpg increase from using additives like hot shots secret, power service, and archoil. Saw a 1mpg difference with lucas.

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v1ton0repdm@reddit

All gasoline is the same. It is made in local refineries or piped to local distribution from the gulf coast. Brand A does not run its own pipes and brand b does not run different pipes - it’s all mixed together, sent to a terminal, and distributed in trucks to stations. What is the closest refinery to your community? That’s where all your gasoline comes from. The one and only one difference is which additive packs that they mix in at the gas station.

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Acceptable_Ad_667@reddit

Top tier gas is better for your car. Better gas will actually prolong the life of your engine as well. Fuels with different additives will actually change the chemistry of your motor oil.

Get a newer subaru and put costco gas in it for while and tell me if it is worth the savings when the random misfire starts.

Most of the time branded gas stations have decent gas with normal detergents. The offbrands or cheaper brands have less additives and cause buildup on the valves, spark plugs and intake which will cause missfires, detonation, etc.

ProfessionalScale747@reddit

The “top tier” gas has additive the not only reduce top end build up but wear. Especially near. The rings where oil gets diluted the most. If you look at a oil that has been running top tier for the duration of the oil will actually test alot better than “cheap” gas. If you put a cleaner/lubricant addictive in “cheap” gas you will get almost the same effect though.

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froebull@reddit

Where the heck are you seeing an extra 60 to 70 cents per gallon difference between a local gas station vs one of the big brands?

newflorida24@reddit

2012 VW GTI here. 184,000 miles using only Shell V power nitro 93. Car runs beautifully and has never had any fuel related issues. Just have always lived and worked near convenient shell stations and stuck to it as was recommended by a vw mechanic friend. Only one time had to fill up at a speedway station. Could be great gasoline or could be just luck 🤷‍♂️👍

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Electrical-Addendum3@reddit

Anywhere but Irving the fkn crooks

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SadDescription458@reddit

I will never buy shell or bp

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real_boiled_cabbage2@reddit

Here is how it works. There is typically only 1 gas refinery. From where all the gas stations by fuel. when the fuel truck gets a job to deliver a load of fuel, they'ltafill the tank at that refinery. Depending on who ordered the fuel, they'll add that companies additive.
So no matter where you go, you get the same base fuel. It's not cleaner or dirtier or more powerful.

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Captain_Aizen@reddit

I've been researching this for years on and off now and just going by all the testimony and all the studies that I found, my general consensus is that there's a 50/50 chance that all fuel is the same and you're just kidding yourself if you think there's a difference, and 50% chance that it actually does do something and that cheap gas will eventually Gunk up your engine. I don't think anybody truly knows for sure, but when you consider the risk I'd say it's just worth it to gamble on the side of caution and get top tier gas. The extra 50 cents per gallon does sting the wallet, especially if you drive a lot or drive professionally, but the cost of an engine replacement is far more disastrous.

Where you need to start paying attention is if you’re running premium fuel, are driving a performance vehicle, turbos, and biggest factor are direct injection engines. Some manufacturers have combated carbon deposits by using both port and direct injection to flush the deposits.

arco is not good gas

chevron. she'll and mobile

You need to become better informed. Your opinion is uninformed.

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Max_Downforce@reddit

Now if you're talking about the difference between regular and premium well then there is certainly a difference there.

If your engine is engineered to use regular, there is no gain in using higher octane fuel.

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Just_Schedule_8189@reddit

Top tier fuels have additives that are proven to keep engines cleaner. Not all top tier brands are expensive.

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Admiral_peck@reddit

In my area only a few chains have 93 octane premium where most stations only have 91 octane, so those of us with modified vehicles will only fill up at mummy's for instance for gasoline since they're the only 93 in town, while if you want E85 you need tp go to a sunoco station.

jckipps@reddit

He's in the extreme minority.

Practically all gas station loyalty among American drivers is based on what snacks are inside the store; not what comes out of the pump.

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m_80@reddit

60-70 cents/gallon is a pretty wide spread if you are comparing gas stations in a local area for the same octane, where I am in the midwest the spread is usually about 30 cents/gal from the cheapest to the most expensive. The main difference is the stations charging the most are usually selling Top Tier gas, which is a specification that relates to the quality of the gas and the additives, which IMO is worth a little more if you have a more modern engine with direct injection, and/or you care more about your car and want a little more assurance on the quality. The cheaper stations usually just buy gas from whichever refiner is offering the best deal at the time they order, its all about the price not the quality.

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WufBro@reddit

"An analysis by AAA reveals that gas with detergent additives can keep an engine running smoothly"

https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/fuel-economy-efficiency/top-tier-gasoline-worth-the-extra-price-a7682471234/