Just how good is the Canadian Healthcare system

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TurboFiero@reddit

No! dont.

Canadian health care is a joke. I have an artery that has a hole in it, they know thanks to a bubble echo. but will NOT look for which artery is the issue

Instead they want to treat it. I have now had a DVT, PE (x2),2 strokes, 8+ mini strokes. nobody will help me

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As long as you have the means to buy your way out of the national system when the going gets tough, you will be fine. I had a friend who was a nurse at a hospital in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. She said that every winter the hospital fills up with wealthy Canadians having heart surgeries. I guess it’s like Americans going to Mexico for dental care.

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Batgod629@reddit (OP)

That's an interesting anecdote

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MadstopSnow@reddit

It's awesome if you are not sick and don't need medical care. If you have some fairly complicated problem expect delays and rationing.

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KeyMyBike@reddit

Expect boomers who lie through their fucking teeth about their conditions and pain to jump the line in front of you.

You have to ham up your symptoms like you're fucking dying or they just let you rot in the waiting room all fucking day.

Deport all boomers after seizing their weath.

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Dangerous-Star3438@reddit

So true. I was a post op surgical nurse about an hour south of the Canadian border. We often had Canadians who would come down for their surgeries here in America. They were very satisfied with the care here. I find the criticism of American health care interesting. I think our healthcare is overall very good but some people don’t get coverage with their work so they have to purchase it, which is very expensive.

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rlyrobert@reddit

Actually, our healthcare sucks and is consistently ranked globally as having some of the worst health outcomes while still having the highest costs. That's not an opinion, it's consistently shown in studies.

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CodyGT3@reddit

The healthcare itself is not bad, polls are biased because it’s not universal healthcare. Every poll you look at, factors in cost. They don’t look at the actual quality of it for the U.S. They won’t tell you that the U.S. is number 1 in the science and technology category either. They won’t tell you that Canadians are coming to the U.S. in record numbers to have surgery’s and they won’t tell you that Canada has a historic low of family doctors.

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NecessaryAd4587@reddit

Great the healthcare system must work perfectly….. for the wealthy.

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Public-Bonus437@reddit

I am a double transplant recipient and fought cancer twice. Canadian healthcare is crap. Stay in europe. Our goverment uses universal health care to quantify our high taxes. Canada is turning communist with long wait times for any social system.

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Ok-Isopod-9146@reddit

In my experience, it hasn’t been great. I was born and raised in BC before moving to the US after finishing school.

One thing I think gets misunderstood (especially in the US) is the idea that Canada has “free” healthcare. It’s not "free". It’s funded through taxes. And taxes are much higher than the US, relative to your income. In BC, for example, you’re paying income tax plus around 12% sales tax on most purchases, which adds up quickly compared to many US states. For many middle to higher income earners, total income taxes (federal and provincial combined) can fall somewhere in the 25–40% range, with even higher marginal rates at the top end.

Where I personally struggled most was access to care. I had a family doctor growing up, but it could take weeks, and often over a month, just to get an appointment. When that doctor retired, I was placed on a waitlist for a new one, and I never ended up getting one for YEARS before I moved. I had to rely on walk-in clinics, which often meant lining up early around the block in the morning just to be seen, and then waiting hours (if not all day) in triage depending on hour urgent it was.

Wait times for specialist care can also be very long. I was referred to a dermatologist and never ended up being seen, even after 4 years. That’s not everyone’s experience, but long waitlists, especially for non-urgent issues are a known issue.

To be fair, the system does prioritize urgent and emergency care, and people aren’t being left untreated in life-threatening situations. But if your issue isn’t considered urgent, it can take a long time to get care.

Another limitation is that private options are restricted for many core medical services, so you can’t always just choose to pay for faster access the way you sometimes can in other countries. That lack of flexibility was frustrating for me.

For my situation, it made more sense to move to the US after finishing school. Even though I now pay for health insurance, either privately or through an employer, I’ve found that I can access care much more quickly. Being able to get appointments in a reasonable timeframe gives me peace of mind. While a monthly premium might seem expensive upfront, it can feel more predictable compared to high taxes combined with long wait times.

Of course, that comes with trade-offs too. The US system can be expensive and depends heavily on having good insurance. But for me personally, the faster and more predictable access to care has been worth it.

At the same time, I do recognize that Canada’s system provides universal coverage and a safety net, especially for serious or unexpected health issues. I’m grateful that I’m generally healthy, but based on my experience, the delays in access were a major downside and one of the reasons that I moved.

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monsieurlee@reddit

In Canada you need a Family Doctor that sees for for the regular bullshit, or refer you to specialists. They are like Primary Care Physicians in the US.

There is a massive, massive shortage of Family Doctors in Canada right now. People have been on waitlist for years to find one.

Existing one are retiring, and new med school grads are all going into specialties because they are paid more and work less.

I'm Canadian in the US and I'm having 2nd and 3rd thoughts about going back. I'm paying out of my ass in the US for healthcare. My bill is \~$600, \~$700 a month between insurance and all the fees, but at least I can get appointments.

Quality of Canadian healthcare is excellent, but you have to wait a long time for shit unless it is life-threatening emergency. If a Moose bit off your arm you won't have to wait 12 hours for an ER.

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Responsible_Cry_4549@reddit

Quality of health care on canada is the most garbage

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john510runner@reddit

"My bill is \~$600, \~$700 a month between insurance and all the fees..."

Wow, that's a lot. How much is taken out per paycheck? For the insurance without the fees that is.

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FrankieBoy984@reddit

If he's paying $600 ot $700 a month obviously he does not have health insurance through work lol

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john510runner@reddit

In the past I’ve worked at places where I paid $120 per paycheck for coverage just for myself. This was over 10 years ago but family coverage was close to $500.

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FrankieBoy984@reddit

That's terrible.

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Lovely_Bug9833@reddit

My husband and I are on cobra right now for a family of 4 we pay $2800 a month for PPO insurance with aetna. I’m thinking of going back to part-time public school teaching just to get the medical benefits back which was basically free.

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john510runner@reddit

I agree. 10 years later… I have a better health plan with lower copays and it’s only $15 per paycheck (rounding up to the nearest dollar).

Last month I wanted to see a doctor in the next day or two before I went on vacation. Got a routine check up, labs and an X-ray I wasn’t expecting. Was in and out of there in an hour and my copays were $60.

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john510runner@reddit

$500 per paycheck for the entire family that is.

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DifferentWindow1436@reddit

I mean...it's not that much. I paid about that for universal healthcare in Japan under the national system. You just usually don't see what you are paying because it is coming out of your paycheck or taxes in some countries, but when it is separated out in a bill (I got made redundant and had to get insurance by law) it is more noticeable.

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Superb_Bend_3887@reddit

Exactly, most people do not realize how much taxes they pay until they become self employed. Most people don’t know that on top of your salary, employers pay around 32% for your vacation, sick, healthcare etc. Agree that the US has a shitty healthcare especially for the very sick and the very healthy, cost shifting is a major issue but we have to recognize that in most cities, everyone comes to the US to get treatment. More importantly, healthcare workers also have to to go home and have a life and enjoy their hard earned dollars. Do we have to fix- 100% agree, how? Not sure but we have to try.

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monsieurlee@reddit

I don't have it through work so this is all paid by me

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john510runner@reddit

Makes me wonder what my company pays for health insurance. Rounding up to the nearest dollar… I’m paying $15 per paycheck.

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texas_asic@reddit

If you're paying $15 per paycheck, then you're probably paying less than 5%. Take a look at your W2, box 12, code DD. That's how much the insurance really costs in total (medical, including your contribution, but doesn't include vision/dental)

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john510runner@reddit

Wow! You're right.

Just had a look. That box says $8811.12.

I already felt like a valued employee. Now I really really feel like one haha

Little more details about our plan... can get see doctors and specialist without seeing a regular doctor first. Not long waits for anything. Reasonable copays and $1500 max out of pocket for employee only and $3000 max if anyone else in the family is covered.

Use to think it was $3000 out of pocket but that's if rest of the family is involved.

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texas_asic@reddit

Yep, when I left my mega tech employer which had an amazing plan, the cobra cost was $32k/yr. That's like buying a new car every year! Instead, we went on ACA and our family of 4 paid $17k/yr for insurance premiums, unsubsidized. But that bronze plan has a massive deductible so insurance is only useful if something bad happens.

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fuhrmanator@reddit

Yes it's so expensive but you can get care quickly. The Canadians I know who prefer the USA fast food health care have the cash to spare. If you're rich enough, everything is free, so the USA system is better for them.

I have a friend from high school who had a heart attack in Florida and his university professor Cadillac health plan wouldn't pay for cardio rehab, which was several thousands of dollars. That's a huge difference from the Canadian system.

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Est1909@reddit

Is that for single? Up here in the north east for a family of 4 I'm paying over $1200 per month.

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Fiona-eva@reddit

Waiting for family doctor 3 years and counting now, in Montreal. I am going to move out if the country before I get one.

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SnooSuggestions7326@reddit

Bullshit another American on here pretending to be Canadian lol

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Fiona-eva@reddit

Yes, I spent years to build up my profile as an immigrant to Canada just to bamboozle you! You got me!

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Gaius_2959@reddit

That person is just a troll - ignore them.

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TurboFiero@reddit

"Quality of Canadian healthcare is excellent"

Wrong. Its shit. I have an artery with a hole that has caused a DVT, PE (x3), 2 strokes, 8+ mini strokes, etc

They will not look for which artery is the issue. the gov limits them to checking the heart and coronary. I am being left to die.

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cy_berd@reddit

Canadian Healthcare is great until you need it.
Prepare for wait times similar to 3rd world countries and learn to self advocate

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irmoraccomoo@reddit

Except its better in a 3rd world country like mine. Poors are taken care by an efficient free/subsidized health care plans. And riches pay out of their pocket backed by commercial health-care insurers.

I heard you gotta be on the waiting line even if you're filthy rich. Is that true?

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cy_berd@reddit

You can donate to the hospital and you will not make a line in your dear life Never seen a CEO of bank waiting 10 hours in ER

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irmoraccomoo@reddit

Well not everyone is a CEO

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irmoraccomoo@reddit

Not all are CEOs

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Yakima42@reddit

Thank you for this brutal honesty, it's needed on here. People hype the s*** outta Canada on this sub. But be prepared for bad faith downvoting though.

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Subject_Ad_9680@reddit

People hype the s*** outta Canada on this sub.

I found it to be pretty opposite actually. It's probably one of the most heavily criticized / complained about country after the US or UK.

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Kaizenshimasu@reddit

As you can probably notice, complaining and whining (especially weather, current state of affairs, etc.) is our national pastime, after hockey.

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TeacupUmbrella@reddit

Yeah, I have no idea what this person is talking about. I've rarely seen Canada hyped on this sub. If anything I think it ranges from "accurate" to "maybe a bit unfairly negative".

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GreenFireAddict@reddit

Be very careful buying into the stereotype of Canatopia.

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cy_berd@reddit

I am prepared for it... :-(

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Yakima42@reddit

The unwritten rule on here is: If you haven't lived in "X" country, you have no right to say bad things about it, unless that country is the US.

You'll literally have people saying the most inaccurate things about Canada, The UK, etc. and hyping the s*** out of it and getting upvoted simply b/c they lived there.

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TeacupUmbrella@reddit

You need to self-advocate everywhere, though.

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ads5531@reddit

Or even worse. I lived in mexico and morocco, and i can tell you that you can see all the doctors you need the same day. And if you have connections and know people, you can even get all your tests back the same day with the full diagnosis. It is not free but it is very cheap for residents and citizens.

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cy_berd@reddit

And they will treat you like a human not like a number

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ads5531@reddit

Absolutely! With a great smile and they take their time. Here you feel like you are in a fast food cashier once you get to see a Dr. 5 minutes top see you goodbye and then next

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Inevitable_Youth8476@reddit

I have recently been married and my wife is an asthma patient I'm planning to bring her to canada with me. But I'm concerned about the healthcare system here because i have heard that you need to wait for weeks to get an appointment and an asthma attack is something which needs immediate care. So if anyone knows anything about this pls do shed some light, i wud truly appreciate that !

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yckawtsrif@reddit

I love Canada. I love the landscapes, overall cleanliness (even East Van is still cleaner than most parts of LA or SF), overall safety (even Toronto is safer than almost any US city), and the people. I've seriously explored moving there. For personal reasons, not political (though I'm certainly not a Trumper or Fox News viewer by any means).

However, the news of wealthier Canadians coming down here to the states for speciality healthcare is not Fox News hyperbole. Just spend some time in Michigan, Florida or Arizona.

As flawed and exorbitantly, disgustingly expensive as healthcare and insurance are in the US, the inefficiency of the Canadian system and the lack of a parallel, fully-private system do the Canadian people no favors. It's also not hyperbole that wait times for crucial, but somehow "non-essential," medical services can be literal months or even years - for something that would often be addressed in a few weeks here in the US. Some Canadians do have access to insurance that will cover some medical expenses in the US, as I understand...but then that still negates the point of using their own home-grown medical system.

Therefore, if I were to ever move to Canada, I'd make damn sure to stay at or below an ideal weight, and to eat and live as healthily as I can. Because it's right for me, but also because I don't want to make a whole bunch of visits to a healthcare system that offers me no viable alternatives.

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A313-Isoke@reddit

I love how everyone thinks the US doesn't have wait times when appointments and authorizations can take months.

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Gaius_2959@reddit

We don't have wait times that are excessive at all. Super fast appointments for us and our family and friends. Maybe if you are medically indigent it is different, but those of us with insurance are getting some great medical care without significant wait times. Primary care often same day, specialists 2 or 3 days up to a month in the worst case, lab work walk in same day, xrays walk in same day, and other radiology within a few days or a week.

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A313-Isoke@reddit

I'm in the Bay Area and it seems like a crisis. My Mom has Stanford doctors and they keep leaving telling her the pay is too low.

I have UHC - like full network can go anywhere - (but Kaiser, obvs, public hospitals and the VA) and no one is accepting new patients it seems like even if the website says they are. Since January, I haven't met my PCP once because of her limited availability. I see PAs generally. It's been like this for awhile. It's my coworkers', clients', and family's experience, too. It's bad.

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Gaius_2959@reddit

That is amazing - you'd think Bay Area salaries would be very high.

Our friends in Palo Alto seem to have an easy time getting in, but the Bay Area is a large, diverse place.

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A313-Isoke@reddit

A lot of the providers have gone to the South Bay because of all the tech companies leaving the rest of the Bay Area scrounging for scraps. Kaiser is swallowing up practices probably too.

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LaDiDa84@reddit

Wow, that is nuts. I guess that as a result of the tech companies, the cost of living is so high that it is even pricing out the doctors. If they can get paid similarly, or even a little less, but stretch their buck MUCH further elsewhere - it doesn't surprise me that they'd move. Ugh - that's rough.

I live in Atlanta, and honestly have never really had difficulties or long wait times getting appointments. The only wait time that is long is if you go to the ER for something that is not a high emergency (as compared to whomever else is there and triaged before you). I usually try to avoid the ER if possible, and just go see my PCP or an urgent care if it's something they can treat.

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yckawtsrif@reddit

Oh, appointments and authorizations can take months in the US - months too long. Certainly depends on the area of the country, generally.

Still doesn't take away from the fact that appointments and authorizations in Canada can take even longer. Certainly depends on the area of that country as well.

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A313-Isoke@reddit

Yeah, I'm just trying to point out those are essentially wait times in the US.

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yckawtsrif@reddit

Fair enough

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pjdance@reddit

I have never felt unsafe in any place I've been to in the US. I live next door to SF. I do not understand this fear people are on about with the US. I think when people watch to much media news their perspective gets all wonky.

And I say this as a flaming queer who has been told I'd get jumped going to certain areas for how I was dressed "too gay". LOL!

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65Eddie@reddit

Private parallel health systems drive up the overall cost per person. Canada doesn’t need a parallel system, we need system accountability. most issues with the system in Canada are due to provincial run systems, 13, costing us billions for no benefit. Prov’s ignore system research and continually change system direction after each election.

Canada’s system is not designed around the number of health professionals we have. The system is designed around having to have a family doctor. Japan doesn’t utilize family doctors, wait times for a specialist is about 4 weeks. Japan has more services insured and a longer life expectancy..

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TeacupUmbrella@reddit

Imo, the lack of a private system is a feature, not a bug :P I'm in Aus right now which has both, and I don't really like it. Sure, if you have the money, you can see someone in a reasonable amount of time. A lot of people don't, though. I know people with private insurance that had to drain their savings to get things like cancer surgery in a timely fashion. I've spend thousands of dollars bouncing between specialists who don't give a crap about my problems, much to the confusion of my GP, who cost me $40 per appointment. A parallel private system comes with its own issues, and nobody should think that those issues shouldn't be taken seriously... especially since everyone is so fixated on getting in private care, that they seem to forget that it won't actually solve the issues in the public system and will likely just pour on new problems :P And based on personal experience, it seems a lot of the issues in the system back home (Alberta) come down to how things are run. Like, I've been to the ER in both places, and the experience in Sydney is way better than it is in AB... but it's because their process for handling patients is noticeably different.

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Sinestroke07@reddit

i have been unable to get an ENT. All of them have a wait list for 2 years + and they tend to reject referrals.
I also have ischaemic heart disease and the wait times are looooooong man! I went to the ER two times in the last week and although they found abnormalities in my ECG, they made me wait twelve hours and sent me home with nothing.

You will see God before you see your specialist :)

My impression is that we have the local talent and good education system but there needs to have more funding. Nurses here are amazing and true heroes. Doctors are hit or miss.

I do appreciate the general coverage. When it works, you just pay for parking and go home. When it doesn't, its long wait times. Sometimes its worth it to go to germany, thailand or the states for a quick diagnosis and let the canadian system take care of you if you can wait.

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Crazyworld1987@reddit

Canada does not have free Healthcare you need insurance just like the US. I have strep throat, currently in between jobs and here's your prescription... oh you don't have insurance ??? Insurance??? So what's the difference between this and the USA? So if I can afford my antibiotics I can just let the infection spread and potentially die. How in the F%$& are antibiotics not covered. CANADA DOES NOT HAVE FREE HEALTHCARE

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theobstacleisthewayy@reddit

Agreed

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theobstacleisthewayy@reddit

Its shit

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dmagill4@reddit

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/woman-right-leg-amputated-post-surgery-infection-1.7411886

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Frequent-Pen-8944@reddit

Everyone’s situation is different but I just wanted to add, I served 6 years active duty in the US military. I have VA healthcare for life which is free and service is very good!

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77hr0waway@reddit

I mean.... ok so I had a serious emergency heart surgery. It saved my life. It was laproscopic so I barely even have a scar. I stayed in the hospital for a week and the place looked like an upscale resort. The only price I paid was for the parking. If you break a bone, need a surgery yes, it's good. But it depends where you live. This happened for me in a major city. I went to a smaller city ER with chest pains and waited for twelve hours. Lucky I wasn't dead. So...

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Ok_Badger9122@reddit

Yeah I've actually had the same experience in hospitals in the united states i get vitals checked then wait for 7 hours 😂

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Peptodismull@reddit

The lie detector has detected, this is a lie.

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the21yearold@reddit

Hey, thanks for sharing your experience! Would be you be comfortable in sharing the name of the city?

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verci-@reddit

Terribke, the worst in the world

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sahannonis@reddit

It's a big shit. I wonder how people survive when they get sick. Even 3rd world countries have better healthcare than this shit.

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Mr_Murder@reddit

Nothing to do with whether Trump wins or not, but I may end up moving to Canada for the healthcare. I cannot survive in the US with severe acute asthma.

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Plus_Variation_2075@reddit

Canada offers universal coverage, so no worries about being uninsured, and healthcare costs are much lower than in the U.S. However, wait times for non-urgent care can be longer, but everyone has access without the financial barriers you’d face in the U.S.

Overall, Canada provides quality care, but it’s about what you prioritize: lower costs and universal access vs. potentially faster specialist care in the U.S.

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No_Cheesecake_8298@reddit

One time I got cut 1 inch deep one inch long by knife bleeding like a cup a minute without pressure on it I called 911 and they sent cops for no reason then the cops brought me to the hospital where I waited until 2am while bleeding to get stitches and was able to leave 4ish

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Lanky_Yogurt_3301@reddit

Canadian healthcare system is a nightmare!!! Assignment of family doctors, months or years of wait to get an appointment of a specialist. Emergency is only for peron who are waiting to be buried in to the grave. For the rest emergency could take a good 12 hour wait before the doctor examines you even though you have a critical medical condition. Tylenol is a medicine for all health diseases. Unsure why healthcare is not seen any improvements after hefty taxes on the residents and citizens!!

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LessCommunication700@reddit

Canada has the best qualified doctors in the world especially surgeons. But now there’s definitely a shortage of budget in hospitals and clinics. There’s even a lack of blankets and pillows after surgery.

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Marrymechrispratt@reddit

It’s great if you’re young and healthy. If you have a chronic illness that requires specialist, you’ll likely wait months to see them. Years for a PCP. In terms of quality, America’s healthcare is better, although not everyone has affordable access because of lacking insurance (either by choice or they have a shitty job). The benefit Canada has is that everyone has access by law, even though it’s sub-par care. Personally, I pay less for my healthcare in the US under my private healthcare than I did living in Canada, and the quality of care in America is expeditious and excellent.

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A313-Isoke@reddit

Where do you live? In fact, where do all these folks live who get timely care?

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Gaius_2959@reddit

We live in Reno NV and there are a ton of facilities and doctors around here. Within a half a mile there are 3 large ERs, 2 major hospital/medical facilities, and maybe 4 or 5 Urgent care, including a couple that specialize in orthopedics.

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A313-Isoke@reddit

Oh, is that considered the DMV or the DC METRO area because I could definitely see that being an exception.

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Marrymechrispratt@reddit

Major U.S. city.

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A313-Isoke@reddit

I'm in the Bay Area and don't so I dunno. Most of my personal network out here has to wait considerably, too.

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formerlyfed@reddit

How much was your private HC in Canada?

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PensionFinder@reddit

As an expat the problem i've ran into is actually securing the healthcard to get free healthcare. You have to qualify & there are visa restrictions. For my visa the process is much more drawn out and you have to pay upfront for any healthcare until you can secure a healthcard.

The out of pocket costs in Canada are much higher than what i've experienced in the US just for basic care. It costs $150 to go to urgent care in US whereas it costs $472 for a resident to visit urgent care in my province (and $1100 for a tourist). I landed an unfortunate trip to urgent care and the total visit has set me back \~$700. Luckily it's covered by my private healthcare but I still have to pay out of pocket and claim back.

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Gaius_2959@reddit

Hmmm. Our urgent care visits are free with our insurance.

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Bewaretheicespiders@reddit

It varies strongly from province to province since its a provincial responsibility. But its in a general state of collapse for the last decade. My baby needed to see a pediatric specialist, and the waiting time was 3 years. For a baby problem. We had to fly him to latin america to be able to see a doctor.

If you are close to dying you will get pretty good treatment. Life-treatening emergencies, cancer, this sort of things. But just to get preventive care or if you need a procedure for a non life-threatening issue, you can and will spend years on waiting lists.

In terms of care provided per dollar spent by society, Canada has the second worst system in any developped country (worst being the USA, but the USA has higher GDP per capita so they can better deal with the inefficiency). If you have good insurances you will have better healthcare access in the USA, if you dont then Canada is probably better.

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Gaius_2959@reddit

It amazes me how many people say the USA system is so bad. We have state of the art medical care and facilities - it depends on what demographic you mean.

If you have good insurance or have a combination of good insurance supplementing Medicare, you can get great, highly skilled, compassionate healthcare. If you are uninsured and poor, then the system can be very bad in that case.

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Subject_Ad_9680@reddit

It varies strongly from province to province since its a provincial responsibility.

Which province has the best healthcare system in your opinion?

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Yakima42@reddit

Trick question, they all suck lol. Problem too is that many Canadians want Scandinavian benefits w/ American taxes, and that just doesn't work.

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Bewaretheicespiders@reddit

Scandinavian society works like it works because of a scandinavian culture, a very homegeneous society, and in the case of Denmark, huge oil reserves per capita. Its some something you can copy-paste anywhere.

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Yakima42@reddit

To some extent that's true. However, you also see much more robust social safety nets in the likes of Belgium which is not as homogenous. Conversely, you also have Hungary which is pretty homogenous but poor government policy has resulted in a horribly underfunded public healthcare system.

So, I think it has more to do with government policy than any unique culture, per se. Switzerland is also not homogeneous and they have a more robust healthcare system than Canada.

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BeetrootPoop@reddit

Canadian healthcare is fine, great even in my experience. I'm in BC. My wife gave birth last year, we had weekly midwife care throughout pregnancy. When she went into labour, our midwife came to our condo then when the time was right, we drove to the hospital together where we were in a private room within 5 minutes. We then had a dedicated team of 3 (one midwife, two nurses) who never left our side through the whole labour. Everything free. My wife injured then injured her knee skiing - MRI within two days of the accident, free. Daughter was sick last week - GP appointment and antibiotics prescribed within a couple of hours of calling doctor at a total cost of $5.

It's true that it seems to vary regionally. A lot of the complaints I hear are from back east, but my experience in BC has been very positive. You do have to self advocate at times. E.g. there's been times our family doctor has been busy, so if it's serious you go to a walk in clinic and wait and so on. But I'll take that over the crazy US medical bills to be honest.

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Gaius_2959@reddit

We are lucky and have employer-sponsored healthcare and pay basically nothing, except one of us pays a yearly deductible of $500. After that, no limit on the amount they will cover. No lifetime ceiling, that is to say.

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CodyGT3@reddit

Same experience in the U.S. just higher quality. I’m Native American, my tribe has a state of the art hospital that can do literally anything you could imagine. Anything. My brother’s wife was having their child, already has a suite with snacks and room service set up before they even got there. Any woman I marry, and any child I have will have free healthcare here in the U.S. I’ve been shot, Medi flighted in a hospital (my brother has also) multiple surgery’s, Invisalign. CT scans, X-Rays, EKG, ECG and so much more (they have department on location for pretty much anything you can imagine to do with the human anatomy). Never have paid anything, ever. Not a single dollar. I’d be as good as dead if I went to a place like Canada with the healthcare system they have.

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yoooooooo45@reddit

Canada is one of the worst countries for healthcare you are delusional

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adrade@reddit

I think this depends on where you live. I‘ve been hearing about people in Alberta (especially) and BC having real problems accessing healthcare but where I am in downtown Toronto, in Ontario, I’ve never had any problems at all and have received absolutely stellar healthcare over the 5 or so years I’ve lived here, like blow US healthcare out of the water stellar. I do have a primary care physician who I love, I have never had any trouble seeing specialists immediately so any complaining here I honestly really don’t fully understand. There is a shortage of primary care doctors, though, so I do know not everyone has one. I happen to love the healthcare system here.

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CodyGT3@reddit

Yeah. You’re a healthy person. It’s similar in the U.S. and insurance covers literally everything for those visits, you maybe may 20 bucks for it all. The problem in Canada is if you’re genuinely sick, have cancer or are terminally ill. I’d be curious to see the amount of Canadians that have died from the long wait times for serious surgery’s and radiation therapy, chemo. Someone on this post actually commented about their experience with Canadian healthcare for someone with cancer, they waited 1 year and 2 months for an appointment, that was their experience. That’s mainly why Canadians are coming to the U.S. in historically high numbers for healthcare. Wait times are so long, you either go to the U.S. or Mexico or hope you live long enough for the appointment that will probably make another appointment for another Appointment. It’s sad.

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Alternative_Belt_389@reddit

If you are coming from the US any part pf Canada is going to be better. I'm American and am SO grateful for this system. However the wait times are seriously long and frustrating but I've never been denied care and the doctors I've seen are excellent. I don't even think about going to the doctor because it's free. Ontario is really struggling right now but compared to the US I can't complain

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CodyGT3@reddit

Certain people in the U.S. have free healthcare, I’m one of them. Canada’s healthcare wait times are seriously so long that if you’re not a healthy person, fly somewhere else land get treatment. Canada’s does the ABSOLUTE BARE MINIMUM that they have to. Really sad honestly. Seeing multiple people convulsing in the emergency room waiting area was definitely eye opening, having those people wait hours on end has to be breaking some law but I guess not in Canada. Genuinely fortunate to have the healthcare I have.

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EndItAll77@reddit

They are letting me die without even being able to see anyone because no one is taking new patients, it’s quite literally the worst

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LeadOwn9361@reddit

Ontario here. I had a stroke & was left waiting 7.5 hrs in a wheelchair in emerg to be sent away claiming “it was just a headache” have yet to receive any treatment or see a neurologist (2-5 year waitlist)- this was in 2022. Took them 11.5 and 13 months to get me the MRI I needed during the stroke. Finally had an intake with cardiologist today, it was 7 minutes - said he didn’t even look at my referral package and won’t see me in person for another 5 months. It is absolutely atrocious here. I’ve paid over 6k out of pocket in medical expenses thus far, and have upwards of 70k in surgeries treatments & shit I can’t even afford to go. It’s not all free. (Which you won’t learn until you actually need healthcare here for something serious.) No one has family doctors anymore. Half of them quit, died or were fired for not taking the experiment. You will not find accurate medical info due to censorship. They’re so overworked no one gets the proper care time or attention they need. And EVERYONE here is now sick and dying. The system here is so broken beyond repair. Hospital waiting rooms are insane, people on floors and hallways practically sitting on top of one another, witnessed a guy having a heart attack in the waiting room last I was there (nurse yelled at him to just keep waiting while he was profusely sweating in a wheelchair) I would not recommend Canadian healthcare to anyone.

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Far-Background-565@reddit

I'm an American who moved to Canada (Montreal, from NYC). My experience is that healthcare in Canada on a day to day basis is significantly worse, arguably horrible. Having said that, there are some parts that are better:

If you have a major accident and need emergency care, your care will be wonderful.
If you're having a baby, your care will be wonderful

But if you need any kind of care that doesn't demand a front of the line pass, you are basically fucked. I found this post because I'm looking for options for what to do about a respiratory infection I've had for 6+ weeks. I'm pretty sure I have walking pneumonia and need antibiotics. But there's no one I can see about it:

The wait to get a family doctor is now like 6+ years
If you don't have one, all you can do is call around to local clinics and hope they have open spots. They never do. There's even a private service that was set up in order to help people find appointments, but now that everyone uses it, it no longer works either.
There used to be walk-in clinics, but there's so much demand for care now that they've all stopped taking walk-ins. The policy at my local clinic is a dystopian joke: to get an appointment, you have to call them at exactly 11am on Monday, and if you're lucky enough to be one of the first 10 people to get through, they'll give you an appointment. Everyone else has to just... wait till the following week and hope nothing horrible happens in that time.

All this ends up meaning that the only real way to get care is to go to the hospital and wait 12+ hours in a waiting room full of other sick people, taking a day off work, etc. It is maddening.

The system up here worked when the population demographics were a pyramid. Now there's too many boomers using services and not enough of a tax base to pay for it. It's falling apart. People are dying. Not to mention preventative care isn't even a thing anymore because no providers have the time for it.

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wesmackmusic@reddit

For acute things Canada is quite good. For anything chronic the healthcare system is honestly a total nightmare. The delays and gaps in coverage are extreme.

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Beneficial-Rest-5797@reddit

Hands down it's the worst

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recurrence@reddit

where you're going matters a lot. The healthcare system is a "provincial" responsibility and each province handles it differently. BC and Ontario historically had the best health care systems and Quebec historically has had the worst (by a large margin). That said, COVID really devastated Canadian healthcare in a number of ways.

In particular, there's been a change in philosophy for many physicians and they simply aren't putting the hours in that they used to anymore. Canada currently has more doctors than ever in its history but has historically high delays for many health care needs.

Overall, I'd currently rate the system 3/10. It is doing what is required but not an ounce more and that won't be changing for many years to come as the boomer population moves through the end of its life. I suspect planning now is on the "post boomer" era and setting the system up for that reality while surviving the current one.

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tastefunny@reddit

It sucks compared to Thailand I walked right in with no appointment at Bangkok Hospital in Phuket the nurses actually care and are some of the best healthcare workers in the world. The quality of service is unparalleled I've been to hospitals and showing different countries and I would have to say the worst is the Philippines the second worst is the United States and I think Canada probably sucks cuz it uses the better Affairs model like what I use in the states. Now I'm laying here inpatient and they've already ran some tests and some more tests tomorrow and it's all less than $1,000. I really love Thailand for so many reasons healthcare is just one. They're really good with my cancer and treating me like an adult instead of a child or a criminal. The Veterans Affairs office teaches the staff that treat patients like criminals

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Subject_Ad_9680@reddit

I remember seeing a healthcare ranking and it ranked some of the wealthier East Asian countries like S. Korea, Taiwan and Singapore in top 7ish. Wouldn't surprise me if Thailand also ranks quite high. I have heard from expats on this sub who were living in Thailand or Taiwan that they had amazing healthcare, so it seems to align with that perspective.

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Brief-Relationship-9@reddit

Thailand is not a wealthy country. They’re dozens of times poorer than the Average American. Their GDP Per Capita is similar to Mexico or Russia. So they are extremely poor compared to developed countries

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tastefunny@reddit

I had a hemorrhoidectomy done in South Korea it was a real pain in the ass. Koreans are really rough at least the doctors and dentist that I've met.

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Superb_Bend_3887@reddit

Sorry about your cancer, hope you are doing well. That seems high if you are earning Baht - Definetely less that the US if you have cancer. Isn't this an equivalent if you are earning a lot in the US and comparable 1k (because the rich could afford better healthcare) would be cheap here in the US? I completely agree the US has a problem but in my opinion, although Universal Healthcare seems to be a great idea which I am in favor, I am not sure how to implement this with our current healthcare system. The healthcare system will need a complete overhaul and serving the underserved and rural communities will get worst.

A question to all foreign MD's here, how do you rate the education here for MD's (medical centers) compared to your home country?

Seriously expanding ACA (Obamacare) and making it more efficient and integrating with Medicare might be the best option and increase premiums to high earners which do not need it anyway but they should not be able to take advantage of lower premiums.

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H2ORunningShort@reddit

The biggest problem with the Affordable Care Act was

People where forced to sign up for it.

Insurances did not have to be part of it.

The few insurances that did, had higher deductibles and not much to offer.

The other problem is between the insurance companies and the hospitals. EX: If something has a range between $800-$1200, the hospital will charge $1400 so they can get the max ($1200) even if they could have done it for $800-$900. Those who have good insurance do not feel it but those who have "ok" or no insurance get hurt by this practice.

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Superb_Bend_3887@reddit

I disagree since I know first hand (without getting into details) how ACA helped people with serious disease like having to sell their home, forced divorce or other means to be able to afford their care.

"Cost Shifting" is a big issue that's why the ranges vary, depending on the community you serve.

People who do not get regular care or cannot afford or just do not have insurance are forced to use the ER as their PCP, which then would shift the cost to business and inviduals premium payments or lessen the coverage or because of your disease, you become uninsurable. They always have to measure risk with those who cannoy pay but still have to provide care.

Healthcare should not be part of caplitalism unfortunately it is. I do not advocate the millions insurance companies are making or predatory cost of healthcare costs but unless that system changes, the alternative is bleak. One idea (ACA) does not fix this problem, it takes a lot of changes, behavioural changes in everyone and hopefully a generation change will make it work.

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H2ORunningShort@reddit

There will always be people who benefit from it and others who it hurts more.

Ask why we cannot have the same government health care as a Senator and you will see why it will never change.

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Superb_Bend_3887@reddit

The reason is because we are not socialist and everything in the US is for PROFIT, so in that sense, your are correct, this will never change. You have the right to choose to have or not have insurance. The burden is in the rest of the US.

It does not mean we should not try to help the ones that may need help. In the past, people who had cancer, once diagnosed, the patient is considered uninsurable. Once their nsurance coverage runs out or reaches the maximum, you would just have to wait to die in the US. Now, you can still get insurance. The cost is now shifted to deductibles, copays and less coverage to the healthy.

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H2ORunningShort@reddit

Still why cannot we have the same government insurance as a Senator?

Let's look at it differently. How much money does England give out to other nations (In percentage) How much does England put towards its Health care (In percentage).

Now what does the United States do in those two areas? If we would stop sending BILLIONS of dollars to other nations, we could afford to care for our own better.

It has Nothing to do with being a Socialist or a Capitalist. It DOES have to do with how our government wastefully using our taxes and how we never question it. And I do not get two F***ks if they have a (D) (I) or (R) in front of their name, as they ALL waste our money.

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pjdance@reddit

Look it is two wings on the same bird. And that bird is a vulture, no offense to vultures.

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tastefunny@reddit

My mistake I have an American pension but I literally don't have enough good things to say about the nurses and healthcare of this wonderful country. Unfortunately they did some tests today and they found to have water around my heart and I also have dengue fever which means the platelets can disintegrate and I can die but most people it doesn't bother him if you have pre-existing conditions it can get nasty.

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65Eddie@reddit

There have been studies that show the more doctors in Canada have been paid they reduce their hours to maintain the same take home pay.

nationalizing Healthcare & introducing system accountability is the best thing we can do to fix things. BC’s system was poorly run prior to the pandemic, AB’s was better.

There is an active Our Commons petition e-4273 to influence change. Even if nationalizing doesn’t happen the more people that learn about the issues the better.
https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-4273

information site comparing countries with national designed systems, Japan & S Korea offer more services for less overall cost / person:

https://nationalizehealthcare.ca/how-canadas-healthcare-systems-rank-internationally/

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TeacupUmbrella@reddit

I guess the thing is, though, that it seems these trends are happening all over the world (or at least, the Western world). Same thing is happening in Australia, and I've heard similar things about the US and the UK... not saying it's great, just that it doesn't seem to be unique to Canada.

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Subject_Ad_9680@reddit

It's weird because the Canadian healthcare system isn't the best (long wait times), but the life expectancy is on par with western Europe, despite Canada having similar lifestyle and diet as the US.

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fuhrmanator@reddit

It's somewhat anecdotal, but one explanation is preventative care is free in Canada to all, but in the USA you need a good health care plan.

A colonoscopy can remove a tiny polyp that 5+ years later could be stage 3+ cancer.

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TeacupUmbrella@reddit

Absolutely. People like to complain about people visiting their family doctors over "nothing", but there are times when "nothing" turns out to be a big deal indeed (or a potentially big deal). Preventative care is super important.

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pjdance@reddit

But prevention would lower profits for the insurance companies. Soooo

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AggravatingMoment115@reddit

Seconded, want to understand as well.

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muwurder@reddit

life expectancy averages are potentially less in the US because of the higher amounts of violent deaths here maybe? look how much worse the US ranks on this list than european countries and canada. here’s a different list for comparison’s sake. gun violence is much higher in the united states for one, but i think accidental violent deaths are higher here too, like traffic accident related deaths.

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Subject_Ad_9680@reddit

Why in the world is Belgium so damn high in death rates? Wtf? I thought Belgium was super safe.

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muwurder@reddit

no idea! a couple different countries struck me as odd like that

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AggravatingMoment115@reddit

Interesting, thanks !

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bigjack78@reddit

People take care of themselves better.

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dryiceboy@reddit

It isn’t. Canada has historically been really good at putting itself in a pedestal and running the propaganda machine because it’s desperate for immigrants. Notice how you just “heard of it”? It does work though. But no way is it as good as people outside the country think it is. And with the low birth rates and aging population, it doesn’t take a genius to figure out it’s not going to get better.

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pjdance@reddit

Let us all remember that taxes are taxes NOT payment for healthcare. And those taxes pay for more than just healthcare. Healthcare service is free nobody is paying for that they are paying taxes.

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greeneyedaquarian@reddit

If you look, you can find doctors accepting new patients. My doctor's office alone has 3 new doctors. It's not as bad as people say, it's easier to just abuse the emergency departments for non emergent things. That's the entire reason for the long waits. The guy with the stubbed toe (not kidding) gets a bed in ER. Taking one away from a bleeding patient. Facts

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captain--trips@reddit

Depends where you live. Where I live most people don't have a family doctor because there are not enough of them. And the emergency room at the local hospital in town is shut down for days at a time numerous times a month because of the same problem. So if you have an emergency on one of those days, I need to drive 45 minutes to an hour to another hospital. And it posted on face book when the the emergency room is closed to let people know. Also a huge shortage of ambulance drivers too. At least that is my experience in a rural area.

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PussyWax@reddit

Good ole Atlantic canada (NB?)

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safadancer@reddit

Could also be PEI, where the waitlist for cataract surgery is now TWO YEARS.

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greeneyedaquarian@reddit

My grandpa lived on the east coast and he came to Alberta to have his cataract surgery, because of the long wait times there.

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65Eddie@reddit

That’s out of control. Countries with nationally designed health systems that also utilize non-profit care facilities rank at the top globally for less overall cost.

here is some info:
https://nationalizehealthcare.ca/how-canadas-healthcare-systems-rank-internationally/

There is an active Our Commons Petition e-4273 to nationalize the health system & introduce system accountability that the Prov’s are missing:

https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-4273

If you support the idea sign and share to influence change. 13 insurance systems, medical licensing, health information / records systems all cost billions, but there is no benefit to health professionals or patients. Health executives in administration benefit and reduce what services we can afford

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captain--trips@reddit

Close, NS

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rvttobvm@reddit

It sounds a lot like rural NL.

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Fred_Is_Dead_Again@reddit

Years ago, in my state (Murica), there were 75 counties with no OBGYNs. Havin' a baby in the rural southeast? Better move, or plan on driving a long way.

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Subject_Ad_9680@reddit

What's worse is that more are moving out because of abortion laws. If an obgyn can't give the care they think the patient needs (even in literal life/death situation) because they think they might get prosecuted for manslaughter, that's an impossible choice to put a doctor through.

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Fred_Is_Dead_Again@reddit

We broke the law and used a lay midwife. Lay midwifery is legal for licensed lay midwives, but the state quit licensing them decades ago.

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muwurder@reddit

i was born in the rural southeast because my obgyn dad was incentivized in some way to move to an underserved area there. i remember him telling me the infant mortality rate was staggering there until they were able to start a full prenatal care program.

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Stock_Net_8995@reddit

I think it depends. For emergency cases it’s great. If you have an injury or tear that you can live with the Canadian healthcare system sucks. The wait times are awful almost inhumane making people live with pain for that long. From what I’ve heard there is also a shortage of family doctors I’ve had the same one since I was young so I do not know if this is the case.

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katakare@reddit

Old post but it’s because our moronic government will NOT FUND IMG POSTS.

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dryiceboy@reddit

It isn’t. Canada has historically been really good at putting itself in a pedestal and running the propaganda machine because it’s desperate for immigrants. Notice how you just “heard of it”? It does work though. But no way is it as good as people outside the country think it is. And with the low birth rates and aging population, it doesn’t take a genius to figure out it’s not going to get better.

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Distinct-Page-7072@reddit

Yea, well Trudeau and Gavin whatever in California are just the same. And the Leftist liberals are the ones who propagated this crap. I always tell people, In ANY situation, you need to be Wary of those who MONOPOLIZE!

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joekerr37@reddit

you should be concerned (although the US sytem is concerning also).

It's very hard to get a GP right now. We have plenty of older folks who lost their doctors and can't get their scripts renewed. Some of them have to go to the ER just to get a doctor to talk to who can renew their scripts. I mean, medications are pretty serious when you're over 70.

If you have a GP, the system is pretty good. If you don't... you are in trouble. And sometimes, even if you do have a GP, it still sucks. I have a family member who is a GP and it takes 2 weeks to get an appointment with him unless you are seriously (ie. emergency) injured.

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unorthodox-tantrum@reddit

Canadian healthcare varies by province and city.

Canada in general is suffering from a doctor and nurse shortage following COVID.

Wait times are high right now. Especially throughout Ontario and in Montréal. But I’ve heard of sick kids waiting for hours for treatment in the emergency room in Alberta.

The government just approved 200 billion dollars of additional health care spending over the next 10 years, so that should help. But honestly, I also think what’s happening is lots of Canadians are getting older and need more care. There are fewer young working age Canadians to underwrite the system at a time when demand for health services is rising, so care standards are declining.

That being said, as a permanent resident or citizen, you don’t have to worry about medical bankruptcy or losing your health care because you lost your job. There are no health premiums or coinsurance to worry about either. No dickering with insurance companies waiting for them to approve treatments. I used to live in the US and I’m glad I don’t have to deal with that anymore.

One thing US health care does have going for it though is quick access to specialist care. At least in the larger cities and as long as you have good insurance. But that’s the gotcha with America, isn’t it? It’s great as long as you can afford it.

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65Eddie@reddit

Canada’s health system should be nationalized. BC has the highest system administration cost for a populated province. BC has 5 health regions duplicating all executive roles for no benefit To health professional, tax payer, or patients.

Before the pandemic BC’s health system was worse run compared to Alberta. BC only just introduced time modifiers for multiple issue chronic patients. Alberta has annual physicals but BC gate keeps them for elderly or people with chronic conditions. Even people with chronic conditions still have to push for a physical & can be denied by their doctor In BC. Some doctors will give the option to pay for a physical If they don’t qualify you = private pay. For profit care in Canada should be banned, it’s single payer healthcare…

There is an active our commons petition e-4273 to nationalize HC, introduce system accountability; influence change:
https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-4273

information on this website to support the need to change canadas health system to one:

https://nationalizehealthcare.ca/nationalize-healthcare-in-canada-blog/

Japan has a nationally designed system with regional delivery, S Korea is fully nationalized healthcare, both out rank Canada for a lower overall cost per person.

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unorthodox-tantrum@reddit

I’m all for it.

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EyesOfAzula@reddit

I think the best option is a public health care system with private options.

When you have time to wait and want to save money, you can use the public system, and if there’s some thing you want to be seen for urgently by a specialist, you have a private option if you don’t wanna wait for the public option and have the money for the private option. Having options is good.

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cy_berd@reddit

Our society refuses for some reason to go this route .. Canada will be a better society if we could have options

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Yakima42@reddit

Yes, it's mainly b/c the doomsayers keep perpetuating the "any private healthcare will turn us into the US!!!" when in reality, there are plenty of Western European nations that have adopted a hybrid model w/ both private and public healthcare and achieve universal coverage.

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Subject_Ad_9680@reddit

Yes, it's mainly b/c the doomsayers keep perpetuating the "any private healthcare will turn us into the US!!!

God, I hate it when people say that shit. Really shows their ignorance. It's less about private vs public and much more about the system in its entirety, along with cost controls (e.g. drug prices) to plug in holes.

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65Eddie@reddit

Private “options” drive up the overall cost per person for healthcare, some information is in this blog post referring to stats from reputable sources:

https://nationalizehealthcare.ca/how-canadas-healthcare-systems-rank-internationally/

countries with national designed systems and non-profit out rank countries like ours with 13 duplicate systems and for profit care.

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Subject_Ad_9680@reddit

Nice, thanks for that link! I love wonky health econ stuff like this lol

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65Eddie@reddit

You might like the blog post on that site for Records Systems.. Canada Health Infoway costing billions & not performing. Prov Gov’s are not wanting them to perform so Prov’s can retain control of records systems. Corporations influencing Infoway so they can profit, And Infoway still thinks it is the solution to the new Federal Initiatives for health data sharing.. Infoway recently commented on this.

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TeacupUmbrella@reddit

Nah, I disagree. It seems that the biggest issues revolve around staff shortages - parallel private options drain people from the public system. Another one is inefficient management and processes - private care won't help that. Private care means adding in more middlemen through insurance companies, which means more money spent, and often more restrictions on who you can see or what you can do. The main private-related option that seems okay to me is provinces contracting work out to private companies (like, I know Alberta does this with lab testing). That might be okay because it's still all under the same system. I mean the system has issues, I just think jumping straight to saying it's cos there's no private care is a mistake...

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juschillin101@reddit

I mean, it fucking sucks, but it’s better than having no healthcare.

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65Eddie@reddit

Prov run healthcare cost billions and lacks system accountability.

consider signing the active Our Commons Petition e-4273 to nationalize healthcare & introduce system accountability measures:

https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-4273

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skyrimskyrim@reddit

Depends on the province you are moving to, heavily. My experience with the Quebec system has been poor, to be honest. I was once told my insurance did not cover ER visits (it did) and I had to pay upfront immediately. Took a long time to get my money back.

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65Eddie@reddit

We are paying for 13 independent and different run health systems in Canada, this is wasting billions and siloing health advocates that are trying to improve the health system.

There is an active Our Commons Petition e-4273, it proposes nationalizing & introducing system accountability measures.

Prov’s are not required to act on system research and there are reports we paid for going back to 1990 all Prov’s ignored.

https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-4273

consider signing to help influence change. Prov’s have resisted national licensing & initiatives to improve interoperability of health records. 13 systems cost us billions, this is why we wish for MRI’s. We could re-focus a lot of money to services and hands on care.

Information supporting the petition:
https://nationalizehealthcare.ca/nationalize-healthcare-in-canada-blog/

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ads5531@reddit

Its a myth to be honest. Yes if you ever happen to be in a terrible life saving situation, you wont pay a penny for anything but seriously who wants to fantasize about that. The rest especially after covid, there is no way you can see a doctor unless you wait forever in the ER, walk-in clinics only do appointments now and its impossibleto book one, and if you need a specialist, it could take forever. Now i believe just like me,most people want to do check ups and take care of themselves before its too late. Good luck doing that if you dont pay a private clinic and fees.

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Subject_Ad_9680@reddit

if you dont pay a private clinic and fees.

I don't this aspect is unique to Canada though. I hear people in UK and Australia often have private insurance to cover things they can't get done through the public one.

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hudibrastic@reddit

It is not, any place with socialized public health care struggles the same way

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smorkoid@reddit

Not sure if you count Japan as socialized (we still pay insurance, but to the government, but costs for insurance are income based and cost of care is highly regulated). Access to care is still quite good.

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ExpatInAmsterdam2020@reddit

Doesnt it work like that almost in every socialised country? You pay health insurance to the government based on salary?

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smorkoid@reddit

I think most countries just have it directly included in their taxes.

One thing different in Japan is the medical care is not 100% free at point of care, you do have to pay. It's just much cheaper. Like, a few weeks hospital stay might be a couple of hundred dollars at most.

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65Eddie@reddit

I would say Japan’s health system is social medicine. It’s the policies that manage the fees (not negotiated by insurance companies for each care facility) and safety nets. Clinics are non-profit. Insurance is backed by Gov if they run into financial trouble.
S Korea I would classify as public as well, it has a capped co-pay, but national care Fees.

Japan has 10 times as many MRI’s per million people & 5 times as many hospital beds / 1000 people vs Canada. The kicker is Japan’s system cost less per person overall.

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TeacupUmbrella@reddit

And places with private care, too.

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Yakima42@reddit

Yes, single-payer systems seem to hit this "critical mass" phase across the board. The solution is to increase spending, but surprisingly all these countries also seem to have gone through a phase of austerity which has done the opposite.

The Bismarckian Model seems to be the most adaptable to changing economic conditions. I'm personally a fan of how they do things in Belgium or The Netherlands. Granted, they are smaller countries, but I think it can be scaled up.

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Subject_Ad_9680@reddit

The Bismarckian Model seems to be the most adaptable to changing economic conditions

I agree and it's a bit ironic because Obamacare has some core elements of the Bismarck model found in northern Europe, like requiring people to take out insurance (often private). Yet, some progressives in the US will insist on having single-payer system and abolishing private insurance. It's a short-sighted policy proposal imo.

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65Eddie@reddit

Japan uses the Bismarck model with private insurance for working people and national system for those not working as employee. Japan nationally set the FFS care prices and Japan utilizes non-profit care facilities.

S Korea has a national system with a co-pay like Bismarck, the core insurance is national & public. National FFS care prices & non-for profit care by law.

These two countries health systems cost less per person overall vs Canada & they offer more services faster.

Non-profit & nationally set FFS care costs seem to be important factors. I don’t think private insurance makes as much difference to the quality or ranking of a health system.

Canada ranks poorly due to most outpatient care facilities being for profit, massive duplication Of administration costs to have 13 independent systems and no system accountability measures.. Single payer health system and we force doctors to run a business that pays ever increasing rent. If we bought real estate for a percentage of clinics we would save money Even if they are still for profit.

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ExpatInAmsterdam2020@reddit

What do you like about the dutch system? Its plagued by all the same issues as all universal healthcare. You can't get a GP, GP is inclined not to refer you to a specialist. And seing the specialist takes forever. Currently I'm still waiting for a few months so the hospital can give me a DATE for an INTAKE appointment (let alone treatment) for an issue that MULTIPLE DUTCH surgeons have told me I need to have surgery... (and no it's not a transplant or anything that needs an organ so I need to wait. It's just a routine surgery).

To make things worse insurance is mandatory and there's no 'private healthcare' like Germany where you can choose.

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Yakima42@reddit

To make things worse insurance is mandatory and there's no 'private healthcare' like Germany where you can choose.

This is an interesting point. As I understood, in The Netherlands you do pay for private insurance, with most of them covering basically the same thing, and with a deductible of around 500-600 Euros.

So in that sense, all healthcare is private healthcare...but it's just heavily regulated by the government to keep costs under control. Germany has a statutory system which is used by around 95% of the population there, and private insurance would disqualify you from the public system. So I don't know if there's more flexibility and choice.

I'm sorry to hear about your personal experience w/ the Dutch System. It does seem like a common problem that GP's in The Netherlands gate keep too much. That being said, NL's healthcare system does regularly score very highly on national and international rankings on not only outcomes but also wait times as well. It has one of the shortest wait times in all of Mainland Europe, only being beaten out by Belgium.

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ExpatInAmsterdam2020@reddit

Insurances are theoretically private but they are all the same and they cover the same thing and they can't give much dividends to shareholders. The government pays them and you also pay them and there is the deductible of 385-885 euro. But they use the same hospitals, bully them into lowering costs (which comes with lower quality) or otherwise they have to close. So what I mean to say is that you cant get 'private better care' because you will go to the same hospitals with the same waiting lists which consider you as a statistic: lets cheapen out on treatment if it makes financial sense, disregarding patient suffering. You can't get better care than the cheapest one they can get away with.

In Germany my understanding is that you can choose between public and private. There is no such thing in NL.

That being said, NL's healthcare system does regularly score very highly on national and international rankings on not only outcomes but also wait times as well. It has one of the shortest wait times in all of Mainland Europe, only being beaten out by Belgium.

I don't know what exactly their parameters are. The statistics you see measure efficency of keeping people alive from what I understand. Not how good their health is.

Ive seen a bunch of 'low wait times statistics about NL' but my experiences are at least 5 times higher. Also in theory everyone has access to healthcare (and the same one for all which is considered a plus because equality), but in practice not so much. Most expats I know go back to their own countries for healthcare. Its cheaper and quicker.

Not sure about what they also consider successful outcome in those statistics because my experiences(plural) on routine stuff has been failures(obvious to me from day one) but marked as successful by them.

From the same statistics ive read that the total life expectancy is high but the healthy life years is low. This is almost never taken into account.

Not to mention how overworked everyone is. Every doctor rushes you to leave and is annoyed when I ask questions. Maybe the doctor in my 3rd world country doesn't have the expensive tools to help me but I can see them in 1-2 days(walk in GP+specilist visit) instead of 1-2 years.

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Yakima42@reddit

Wow that's really terrible, I had no idea things were stretched so thin in The Netherlands. Sorry to hear that. Do you know how Belgium compares?

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TeacupUmbrella@reddit

Yep, I moved from Canada to Aus and this is the case. Seems most Aussies think insurance is a scam at worst and a necessarily evil at best. I know a lot of people who preferred to take what they'd pay for insurance and save it in case they need something, since most insurance plans often don't pay what you actually need when you need it. It's what's stopped me from getting it, myself. Why pay, say $1200 in dental cover when the annual payout cap is $1500, and one crown and 2 checkups cost like $1900 minimum? It's not the best way to spend your money.

Also, the issues with access to GPs, long wait times etc is an issue in a ton of places right now. Gotta be real about that - it's not accurate to say this is such a problem in Canada without also acknowledging it's a big problem in virtually every other Western country right now, too.

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toss22221@reddit

Its a myth to be honest

Same with medical debt in the USA bankrupting everyone. While the numbers look "high" they in reality are not as only 1% have medical debt over $10K.

Source: https://www.lendingtree.com/personal/medical-debt-statistics/#:~:text=How%20much%20Americans%20owe%20in,saddled%20with%20huge%20medical%20bills.

Yes, $5,000 bankrupts lots of people that are poor. But people that have decent jobs/pay/assets aren't losing everything, they buy ACA or similar insurance and protect themselves with MOOP that prevent bankruptcy. So if you got a bill for $250,000, you MOOP caps it to ~$9K, which is why so few (1%) have debt over $10K, doesn't matter that you were billed for hundreds of thousands.

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rorank@reddit

people with disabilities, those in worse health, and poor or near-poor adults are more likely to owe significant medical debt. We also find that Black Americans, and people living in the South or in Medicaid non-expansion states were more likely to have significant medical debt.

From the source of your source, that Kaiser family census review ( https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/the-burden-of-medical-debt-in-the-united-states/#Share%20of%20adults%20who%20have%20more%20than%20$250%20in%20medical%20debt,%20by%20demographic,%202019 )

How very American of you to think a problem is a myth if it only applies to the poor lol

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toss22221@reddit

How very American of you to think a problem is a myth if it only applies to the poor lol

Americans don't have debtors prison and debt doesn't get "inherited" like other countries.

Medical debt doesn't affect your credit score (from what I have read).

If I owe you $1M in medical care and only make poor wages (where I couldn't afford insurance) then I would simply go to court and bankrupt the debt, paying nothing.

Finally, 41 states did the Medicaid expansion (and WI has Badgercare that is the same as the expansion even though we haven't taken the expansion). So in 42 states even the poor can get health insurance for FREE if they just apply. Avoiding all costs $0/mo, $0/visit, etc. No asset checks.

The 8 states also have the federal medicaid, you just can't have more than $2K in assets. So again $0/mo, $0/visit and all you have to do is sign up.

That leaves 8 states with what is called the donut gap, where people are too wealthy to get Medicaid ($2K in total assets limit) but too poor to get the ACA plans.

Sorry, but that means mostly MYTH.

poor or near-poor adults are more likely to owe significant medical debt

So? They don't ever have to pay it. I'll take the deal. They only have to pay either 10% of total income, but can't be more than 100% of disposable income. So if you make 5% above the FPL (think ~$15K/yr for a single person), you would pay $750/yr MAX! As your income that is considered disposable is only that above the FPL.

They get to walk into any emergency room, get treatment and then just never pay. Nothing every happens. Any judgement is just debt that sits there forever. Part of why they all owe it.

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A313-Isoke@reddit

Wow, your lack of empathy and compassion is stunning. And, you have some of your facts wrong.

First, medical debt does go on your credit report. There are certain places where they've stopped that practice but that is pretty recent (during COVID).

Second, we do have debtors prisons. People are stuck in jail because they can't pay bonds or other fees. Check out this list of cases related to debt landing people in jail: https://www.aclu.org/issues/racial-justice/race-and-criminal-justice/race-and-criminal-justice-debtors-prisons

Now, if you had said medical debt doesn't land you in jail, sure, but that's ignoring how poverty works and the whole financial picture of any given household in or near poverty. Lastly, I'll add (because I work in govt social services in the US) many people prefer jail because there's free medical and dental care. Which is a sorry state of affairs and something all Americans should all be deeply ashamed of.

Third, there are property and asset requirements in Medicaid. There's two main kinds of Medicaid, one is for non disabled or elderly and that's based on tax filing status and FPLs. And the one (We call it classic or NON MAGI in the biz) that DOES look at assets and property is for the elderly and disabled! The estate recovery policy is particularly egregious: https://www.medicaid.gov/medicaid/eligibility/estate-recovery/index.html

Fourth, the ACA plans are very expensive with a lot of out of pocket expenses especially around coinsurance which you didn't mention. There are a lot of gaps in coverage for the ACA because the GOP took away cost sharing (which in CA we still fund) and are only left with APTC. The ACA plans have very narrow networks as well. Remember, over half of Americans can't put their hands on $1000 in an emergency. https://www.healthinsurance.org/obamacare/the-acas-cost-sharing-subsidies/

All in all, your lack of compassion is really very shocking.

Please talk to someone who doesn't look like you, doesn't have the same life experience and resources and privilege, doesn't make as much money, doesn't own a home, etc. to learn how people are really living. I wish elected officials could take the calls my coworkers and myself take to truly understand how people are scratching together a living. The US is a poor country with a Gucci belt on.

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toss22221@reddit

WOW lets spread more myths that I already said were a myth.

There are certain places where they've stopped that practice

So first I said it doesn't hit your credit score and even you admit many states won't allow it to be on your report.

Second, we do have debtors prisons

That isn't debtors prison. That is a criminal court. If you are going to claim debtors prison you need to find real examples of someone sent to jail over a civil contract debt. Or better yet since the discussion is directly related to medical debt, someone sent to prison over medical debt (PS - You won't find it).

Third, there are property and asset requirements in Medicaid

Mostly FALSE. In 42 states there are zero asset limits as they took the ACA medicaid expansion program. Which I already said there were only 8 states.

Fourth, the ACA plans are very expensive with a lot of out of pocket expenses especially around coinsurance which you didn't mention.

FALSE. I had an income of ~$16K in 2021, bought an ACA plan that cost me $0/mo (govt paid $468/mo) and my Ded was $100 and MOOP for the year was $1,500. So less than 10% of my income.

All in all, your lack of compassion is really very shocking.

Your lack of fact is shocking. Did you read my income (above) for 2021 was $16K.

Please talk to someone who doesn't look like you, doesn't have the same life experience and resources and privilege,

I do.

doesn't make as much money,

Well that is easy, did you read where I only made $16K in 2021.

doesn't own a home, etc.

I rent, I don't own a home.

You should talk to some people that have used the system and see that it does work in many places.

your lack of empathy and compassion is stunning

Why should I have empathy and compassion for someone in my state (and 41 other states) that is just to lazy to call the help line and get FREE/Subsidized healthcare?

Why should I empathize about the 8 states that voters didn't make their representative join the medicaid expansion in the 13+ years it has been an option from the Federal government?

Honestly, I was scared to death about healthcare for 2021 and the costs due to all the false MYTHS. I found all the hype was 100% false for my state, it was so easy to get help and cheap healthcare via either BadgerCARE or ACA.

If people like you would STOP spreading lies and start talking to actual people that have used the programs out there, it would help advertise how you get on them instead of using fear to keep people off them. Your the one with no empathy, tell a much of lies to keep a false narrative going.

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fuhrmanator@reddit

Many people avoid getting health care to prevent illnesses, because they can't afford it. It happened to several relatives with cancer.

Many people don't have an ethic of saying "so what" if they can't afford the bills. It goes against their personal financial responsibility. I paid off a 7k$ debt when I was 19 out of pride (took 3 years). Today I am wise enough to see the injustice, but many people don't see it. It shouldn't exist. It exists because a whole group of private individuals make a lot of profit off a system catering to wealthy.

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mikepictor@reddit

It's quite good. The deficiencies that people perceive is because everyone gets to take part. When poor people still get to have healthcare, yes, it might just make your wait a bit longer. You don't get to just wave a credit card around for faster access.

There is a ease of stress in knowing that the operation your doctor says you need will cost you nothing beyond possibly parking fees.

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tdreleven@reddit

I live in a smaller area in southern Ontario (150 000 pop) and my friend's son had emergency appendectomy last week. There was a wait. He went in that day AM, had the surgery at 2 am. It was a Friday and busier. His parents taxes paid for the surgery. They pay nothing out of pocket. So yeah, the wait was not wonderful. But, they don't have to scramble to pay the bill. I think if you have insurance in the US that's great, but if you don't, not good at all.

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ExpatInAmsterdam2020@reddit

Emergency =fast. Non emergency? Good luck!

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Sprinklesandpie@reddit

If you aren’t severely sick with something like cancer or need some type of major surgery then generally healthcare is decent. If you need to see a lot of specialists or need surgery, be prepared to wait 9-12 months. The one thing I like about the US after moving here from Canada is generally how fast I can be seen for almost anything. Ophthalmology was within a week compared to 10 month wait in Canada on the west coast. PCPs are practically impossible to get in Canada, barely any doctors are taking new patients which suck.

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Subject_Ad_9680@reddit

PCPs are practically impossible to get in Canada, barely any doctors are taking new patients which suck.

Are they prioritizing doctors and nurses in the new immigration plan? They better!

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Sprinklesandpie@reddit

It’s really a budget thing since healthcare in Canada is government paid versus in the US we have a lot of private practices that allow them to hire more doctors. So definitely they need to up the budget for healthcare!

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ExpatInAmsterdam2020@reddit

Highly unlikely IMO. You can't put a quarter of the population in Healthcare jobs(paid by taxpayers) and expect the economy to flourish.

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svn380@reddit

The system here is based on triage. Understand that and you'll understand many of the contradictory opinions people have about it.

If it can kill you soon, you go to the head of the line. Treatment is typically great and you never see a bill (okay, you pay drugstores and parking, but no doctors, hospitals.)

If you have a chronic condition that sucks but is pretty stable, the wait times are looooong. Hip replacement? Cataracts? Skin rash? Lol.....get in line. They're preoccupied with heart attacks, liver cancer and drug overdoses.

Everyone has stories....

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Puslinch-Komet@reddit

Expat Canadian here living in the UK from Ontario. I never had an issue and had both OHIP and Private in the go. When I needed to get something done, Private got me to the front fast, I had a few accidents over the years and OHIP took care of me just fine.

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Subject_Ad_9680@reddit

I hear the NHS is quite bad as well. Do you find it better or worse than Ontario's healthcare?

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Puslinch-Komet@reddit

My interaction with the NHS has been very good, my local GP is always available and I also have private cover here. To be able to compare you need to have equal items to compare. My interactions have been very good with both for what I required. My daughter has T1 diabetes and the care on both side has been stellar.

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Exciting-Musician925@reddit

Really depends on your current and future needs - Canadian healthcare is excellent in urgent need (think car accidents, heart attacks etc) at a reasonable societal cost. It’s pretty crap for chronic diseases (diabetes, depression, adhd etc).

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Imaginary_Row8386@reddit

Canada's health system is one of the best in the world so I don't think you should worry about that.

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Batgod629@reddit (OP)

That's what I thought but others don't see it that way

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Imaginary_Row8386@reddit

You should trust your own thoughts and don't care what other people think

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Imaginary_Row8386@reddit

yess

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RodneyisGodneyp2x555@reddit

I'm an American and I lived in Canada for five years. I loved the healthcare system and found it to be much better than the US. I lived in a smallish city in Ontario. It's true that an actual MD as a family doctor might be hard to find but I prefer nurse practitioners anyway and that's who I saw for my primary care. They would get me in for same day appointments if I needed them. I never had to wait more than a day or two.

I had to see a specialist and ended up needing a minor surgery. The wait time for the specialist and the surgery was less than my wait time for specialists in the US. The care I received was really good and I found that I went in for medical care more often because I didn't have to think about the cost.

It all depends on where you live and there are going to be shortages in some areas and with some specialists but I think that is just to be expected. You can't force doctors to live in a certain town or city. I would take the Canadian system over the US in a heartbeat.

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TeacupUmbrella@reddit

Well, it depends a lot on what part of the country you're in - it's run provincially, and urban/rural living can impact access too. Also, just like most other countries these days, the whole system is getting run down due to mismanagement and the pandemic hangover.

That said, I've heard that Canada is better for average people, and the US is better for those with a really good job. But imo, having lived in Canada and in Australia (which has a mixed system), the public system is a lot easier to navigate and less stressful to use. But YMMV.

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trx212@reddit

Healthcare in canada is abysmal. We just have a good pr team.

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redfoxy87@reddit

It depends. If you are healthy, not chronically I’ll, you will be fine in Canada. I lived in both Canada (Vancouver BC) and the US (Seattle) after curing cancer in my home county in Europe. In Canada, I had to wait for 1 year and 2 months to get a follow up appointment about my situation, and do additional biopsy, if necessary. For someone with cancer, it’s unacceptably long wait time, because cancer within 1 year can progress to a different stage. Canadian health care doesn’t really care about that. In the US, I got the same appointment (ultrasound + biopsy) in one week after I requested the appointment. 2 days later I got my biopsy results. In my case, time worth more than money, so US health care works a lot better for me.

In addition, I went have experience being in ER in Canada and the US. Wait time in ER in the US is around 1 hour. In Canada, it can be 8+ hours. One time in Canadian ER I was waiting for my turn and saw a man arrived in his pajamas to ER. He has kidney stone coming out of him, so he didn’t have time to change to regular clothes, just jumped in his car and went to ER. In Canadian ER they made him wait for more than 1 hour. He was laying on the floor with pain. I was trying to cheer him up but pain was too strong.

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Polakian1985@reddit

Shit.

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NorthernBlackBear@reddit

Well each province administers their health authorities. So this is as much a whole Canadian question as it is a provincial/territorial one. I have used 3 different medical systems including the Canadian. While it is not perfect, you will get good care when you need it. I haven't yet had an issue in 40+ years. My father had cancer, he got the care he needed promptly and efficiently. Even got home care so he could get bathed/changed. All this cost me nothing extra besides our taxes. I also got him into a excellent hospice which was like being in a hotel. Everything was covered except for a small daily charge of 20 dollars or so. 20 dollars for a private room, therapy for both him and myself, a pull out bed for me to spend nights with him when I could and all the other resources. It was amazing.

While our system needs sometimes changes, I rather what we have than some US family and friends who are scared to go to the doc for the fear of costs.

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Flat-Ad-3231@reddit

Summed up overall.... terrible

Our healthcare system is on life support and needs medical care

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lem0ngirl15@reddit

It’s not. I’m here for almost 4 years and I’m a long way away from having a family doctor. It’s impossible to get an appointment. Wait times are insane

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Fiona-eva@reddit

I am in the same situation. It costs less but unless you’re dying you can’t really see a doctor, so what’s the point

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lem0ngirl15@reddit

Yup. Canada is vastly overrated as a country. At least if the us you have choice and can at least call a doctor. And real estate isn’t so out of reach to purchase and salaries are much higher. It probably ends up evening out in the end in the us probably with the much higher salaries and lower taxes tbh

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Batgod629@reddit (OP)

Lots of good responses. What Provinces would be the best in regards to healthcare. it seems like BC is better than say Ontario but Canada has more than those two

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xinit@reddit

The Canadian system (depending on province) is WAY better than US citizens are told it is, especially when it's about how good it is at getting people to a doctor.

It is not, however, nearly as good at helping people as it should be, and the disparity between provinces is astounding.

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Icy-Factor-407@reddit

I lived there a couple of years, and it was affordable but not good.

A significant portion of migration to Canada is people who would prefer to migrate to America but can't get in. Always keep that in mind as an American thinking of moving to Canada, because whatever you are searching for can probably be found in a different US state.

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asvender@reddit

Most of Canadian advantages compared to other countries are just pure propaganda. The best country to live in some rankings, the best country with high life expectancy, the healthcare, the education and etc are mentioned just to attract new immigrants and fleece them of their money and chew and then spit them out. In specific, their health care system is one the least efficient ones, but ironically they brag and take pride in the most.

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Yakima42@reddit

It's not in a good place right now. Yes, I'll get flamed b/c I'm a US Citizen and have mainly visited Canada as opposed to living for years, but I have family up there as well as many close friends whom I know up there as well (I'm in a border town).

The Canadian healthcare system is done on a province-by-province basis w/ the National government injecting funds where needed. Unfortunately the likes of Ontario has seen devastating underfunding and understaffing and wait times as such have really ballooned. Many will insist that it was Covid-19 which did this, but tbh, it's been going on even before hand.

To give you an (anecdotal) example. I was having trouble with my GI system. I was able to set up an appointment with my Primary Care Physician w/i 2 days and go to see her. I needed an Ultrasound, and scheduled one w/i 2-3 days. They were willing to give me an earlier slot but I was busy.

Granted, I do have decent insurance, but my (very blue) state has more robust protections for the poor and middle-income earners, and also a high concentration of doctors, even in the more suburban areas. So on the whole we're somewhat lucky.

My uncle in Ontario, on the other hand, was stuck waiting for nearly 3 months to see a doctor for severe respiratory problems (i.e. he literally couldn't breathe when lying down). The initial ER visit itself took over 10 hours. His friend's daughter who was in elementary school had a 102 degree fever when they went to the urgent care and they were waiting for nearly 8 hours to be seen. Nearly all of my friends up there, even those living front-and-center in Toronto complain about the horrible wait times.

It's better than the US if you're uninsured and/or have a poor plan. However, compared to many Mainland European healthcare systems it's very poorly run.

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eddythebamba@reddit

in my personal experience with it, I'd say it is not good or even terrible for emergencies that are not life threatening or for you to get access to a specialist.

there are no family doctors and the system is designed to have family doctors being the first level of triage.

check ups exams and scans can also take months to be booked, which can be a serious problem.

after you get access to a specialist it works much better. especially if you have a serious condition. it is fast and hospitals and health care is good quality, without luxury.

it took me 9 months to get to a neurologist specialist and have MRI scans done to check a growing tumor in my spine I already knew existed a few years ago, before moving to Canada.

But after seeing the neurologist I had surgery done in 2 months. For free, including medication.

For comparison, I com from Brazil, and had private health there, but it was extremely expensive. Rarely had to go to the public health service there aside from things like vaccines or some types of emergencies .

My husband (also brazilian) never could afford private health in Brazil and only used public health.

I would say Canadian public health is worse than Brazilian public health for some things, while better in others.

Of course it's way worse than private health in Brazil, but its not absurdly expensive, its free .

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x3medude@reddit

Rural areas, your mileage will vary. But full service hospitals in cities will work on an urgency scale. It's entirely based on how routine to how urgent your care is.

If you're talking basic healthcare, you can go to walk-in clinics and such.

Everything that doesn't require an MD can usually be done privately