What is something that's considered "haram" in the Balkans?

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Usual-Leg-4921@reddit

Shoes inside the house. Estagfirullah brazër veri haram habibi.

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Mestintrela@reddit

The only ones who demand people to take off their shoes inside in Greece, are OCD clean freaks who ppl make fun of behind their backs.

Just FYI..definitely not haram.

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I'm honestly surprised by the Bulgarians also mentioning the shoes. Obviously, I can't talk about all of Bulgaria but in the big cities around the people I've come in contact with, nobody makes their guests take off their shoes. Ever.

There's even a saying about it that I swear I hear every single time I've offered to take off my shoes, which is about not living in a village (well, it's quite a bit more colourful than that 😆).

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skgdreamer@reddit

Must be Athenian, definitely harm in north Greece. You tell them to keep them on, but they remove them anyway out of good manners.

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Mestintrela@reddit

No, I am not Athenian. I have lived in Thessaly, North Aegean, the Peloponnese and Crete and only one time I have been asked to remove shoes. By a self admitted clean freak.

It is definitely NOT haram in Greece as a country. In fact I recommend not to do it, otherwise people will think you are crazy.

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MegasKeratas@reddit

Making your guests take off their shoes is weird af bro.

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Usual-Leg-4921@reddit

If my house is a shoeless house. You’re taking your shoes off or you’re not coming in. We offer papuçe also. Do you have stinky feet bro?

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KrystalleniaD@reddit

Sorry, I'm not walking on your floor without my shoes, I don't want my socks or my feet to get dirty. And are you seriously suggesting to wear this papuçe you have, that who knows how many other people have worn before me? And you think this is healthier than just cleaning the damn floor after I leave? I'm definitely not coming in your house

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silverbell215@reddit

Walking inside homes with shoes on is just plain unhygienic. I never knew Greeks kept their shoes on in the house. Especially on carpets and rugs.

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KrystalleniaD@reddit

Ok give me your papuçe then that you have given to many other people or let me walk on your dirty floor barefoot. Totally hygienic

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silverbell215@reddit

How many homes have you been to that have dirty floors? I have yet to visit such, the only issue i have had going barefoot is cold feet (if not offered papuce).

In your own home do you wear shoes too or is this only in others homes?

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Mestintrela@reddit

Yes, We walk with shoes inside our homes too, many times especially when you havent changed clothes to pyjamas yet.

In the summer, we wear flip flops because of the heat though.

Especially if you have guests it is rude to be wearing slippers. Very rude. Unless you are a grandma in which case noone cares.

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silverbell215@reddit

But then is your own home dirty for you to be wearing shoes indoors? Your home becomes even more dirty when you wear your shoes indoors.

How is this comfortable?

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Mestintrela@reddit

I vacuum the floor every 3-4 days? Since my shoes are clean they dont bring in dirt anyway.

I dont know about Bosnia but the average Greek doesnt walk a lot nowadays. And definitely doesnt walk in non paved roads.

If you go hiking in the mountains then ofc you leave your shoes in the balcony or smth.

When ppl change to their indoor attire like pyjamas, lounge clothes etc they wear slippers or flip flops for comfort. If they only stay in the house for a few hours like come back home for lunch, or before they change clothes they wear their shoes in.

Also it is considered beyond weird to ask a guest to wear your house's slippers. I have been asked only once in my 30+ years of life.

Really there is zero need to wear slippers inside here except for extra comfort.

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silverbell215@reddit

Greeks do the same thing as the English (having lived there) when it comes to this I guess, they also tend to wear shoes indoors.

What I was more concerned with is the dirt particles that you would be carrying in from outside. Although not visible to the eye, you will be bringing in everything you walked upon on the pavement and such.

In Bosnia taking your shoes off is for both hygiene and comfort, like you said it’s for extreme comfort and that’s how people generally want to feel in homes.

This is interesting though, I always thought Greeks took their shoes off like other Balkan countries. These are one of the few cultural differences we have

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Mestintrela@reddit

In general, there are very few times that our shoes have mud.

IF they are, we leave them outside but this happens very few times a year unless someone is a farmer or smth.

Therefore in general we take our shoes inside.

There is no reason for debate on this.

Greeks we dont take out our shoes. And that is a fact.

Now if some areas near the borders who are influenced by Slavs and Albanians do that is definitely an exception to the rule than the norm.

On another note, MOST greek houses dont have these nice tapestry rugs like you see in turkish soap operas.

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MegasKeratas@reddit

We offer papuçe also.

Papuce = shoes in greek so I'm already wearing my papuce.

Do you have stinky feet bro?

Ahaha lmao no I don't. Are you too lazy to wash your floors? It's not like guests come every day.

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Usual-Leg-4921@reddit

We call sandals papuçe and we’re not here to debate what word we use to call certain objects. We have sandals we wear inside, especially during the winter when it’s obviously colder. If someone took a shit on the hood of your car and said “bro don’t worry, wtf are you too lazy to clean your car? Birds shit on it too.” I don’t think would justify dude shitting on hood of your car hood. I’ve been to many Balkan houses and they’re all super clean and all of them require you to take your shoes off.

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MegasKeratas@reddit

I’ve been to many Balkan houses and they’re all super clean and all of them require you to take your shoes off.

In Greece someone asked you to take off your shoes?

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Usual-Leg-4921@reddit

I said many not all my man.

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MegasKeratas@reddit

I know, I can read. You didn't specify which ones so I asked specifically.

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Usual-Leg-4921@reddit

No you didn’t. You asked specifically for Greece and how surprised you’d be.

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SuperMarioMiner@reddit

I think this depends where in the Balkans you are.
In Croatia mainland (Slavonia) where there is a lot of mud everyone takes their shoes off.
On the seacoast where it's all stone almost nobody does.

So I'd say mud is the main factor.

ps.
u/MegasKeratas

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Zandroe_@reddit

Most people will ask you to take off your shoes while visiting their home, in Dalmacija at least, it's different if you're just going to hang out on the terrace or something.

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SuperMarioMiner@reddit

I guess there is a difference between Dalmacija and Kvarner. (not sure about Istria)
Practically nobody will ask you in Kvarner.

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Outrageous-Bad5759@reddit

It is a haram to mistreat cats.

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mertvoetelo@reddit

gebzede mahvettiler cocuklari...

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Outrageous-Bad5759@reddit

Yes, they killed the dogs without mercy :( Also, your Turkish is quite good for a Bulgarian.

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mertvoetelo@reddit

because im ethnically turkish lmao, im from bulgaria though, livin' in istanbul💀

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Outrageous-Bad5759@reddit

Interesting combination.

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mertvoetelo@reddit

nah, we have a lot of Turkish in bulgaria. we actually almost have our own cities, shumen, turgovishte, razgrad, kudzhali, haskovo etc. its impossible to not see an ethnic turkish in those places. we came to bulgaria circa 1400-1500, and in 1984-1989 Zhivkov regime forced us to come to turkey, we stayed till 1992 but it only got harder so came to turkey.

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theDivic@reddit

Putting ice or water into rakija

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pdonchev@reddit

Nah, ice is very common. It may be a thing for some, but it's far from universal in the Balkans. There is a reason why they serve an ice cubes mini bucket with rakia.

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theDivic@reddit

Must be local then, I never saw anybody here serve ice with rakija unless you ask for it, and you’d get some weird looks from the waiter.

It’s served at room temperature or the whole bottle is chilled in the fridge or freezer.

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mertvoetelo@reddit

well we drink %42-%45 in my area, so it never gets foggy. sometimes when the rakiq is more than %50 you have to do it or you would die, my fathers friend has eye tension from it and im partly blind so im not forcing limits lol

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pdonchev@reddit

I have never ever seen rakia become foggy from ice, it must be a water quality issue (where that magnesium comes from?). I want it cold and if it's room temp, ice goes in 100%.

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mertvoetelo@reddit

yeah, like my family does it so do i, was like "huh? ice? u kiddin?"

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AnalysisQuiet8807@reddit

Dude what?

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pdonchev@reddit

Restaurants serve a cup of ice when you order any hard liquor, including rakia. A do out ice in rakia, especially homemade 50-60% spirit. Normal 40% I may drink without ice if rakia is cold itself, but otherwise I would put a cube in.

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Gladius_Bosnae_Sum@reddit

Attempted to do this at a wedding once when I was 16. 3 people came to stop me

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Drevstarn@reddit

I’m going to hell twice then

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Neat-External-9916@reddit

why is that bad?

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Competitive-Read1543@reddit

I'll kill them myself

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theDivic@reddit

I still have PTSD from the last time I saw some tourists doing that

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harvestt77@reddit

Blasphemy!

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thatgirleliana@reddit

Saying you don't eat bread.

My relatives and my husband's relatives always look at me like I'm insane when I say this.

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mertvoetelo@reddit

same

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Enough-Restaurant223@reddit

Not smoking

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RandomRavenboi@reddit

That's a sin that I'll gladly commit then. I already have shit eyes. I don't need shit lungs too.

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Enough-Restaurant223@reddit

Smoking will make your eyes even worse

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Gladius_Bosnae_Sum@reddit

Not pushing back when offered food or holiday money.

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Suitable-Decision-26@reddit

Allowing somebody to pay something without performing a little ritual where you try to give back the money while he/she refuses to take them.

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maximhar@reddit

Revolut ruined this tradition

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chetirski@reddit

It's true and I hate it

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DoruqTV@reddit

Refusing food when you are a guest

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Low-Assistance9231@reddit

Killing a honey bee

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fe4rlessness@reddit

My dad always rants about how the world wouldn't exist if there wasn't bees whenever someone kills one haha

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amerikani@reddit

Its funny, this is big in Albanian culture. We actually have two words for death, one for animals and the other is used for Humans and Bees only.

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Inner-Signature5730@reddit

this is common across quite a few indo-european languages

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Human-Ad3407@reddit

I wouldn't say common

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gtbot2007@reddit

It is common for there to be a word for “killing humans or bees”?

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tarn_198@reddit

I've never in my life heard someone say "Don't do that, it's haram".But pork for stupid reasons. 50% of our food is not even halal

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ChadNEET@reddit

I'll always be amazed how pork is universally the most frowned upon things among "bad Muslims", not just in the Balkans, but sometimes the Caucasus, and definitely the North Africans ones and those living in the West... "Drinking alcohol? No problem. Sleeping with women outside of marriage? Of course bro. Doing combat sports and hitting people in the face? Hell yeah! W.. what, eating porks?! What do you think I am, a kafir?!" lmao... that's hilarious.

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janyybek@reddit

It’s not that amazing once you really think about it. It’s a very obvious cultural sign that is super easy to comply with. What’s the alternative to alcohol at a happy hour or social gathering? You get water or juice or soda and you get judged and you’re not gonna get messed up. And every other alternative is technically haram as well.

Same with premarital sex. There isn’t an alternative. To participate in a western culture requires certain levels of haram activity. But eating pork, you can always avoid it cuz there are so many alternatives. But it’s a very visible sign that you can use to show you’re Muslim.

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ChadNEET@reddit

Why would you want to show you're "Muslim" if you do stuff that are punished in Islam, like drinking alcohol and have pre-marital sex (both aren't compulsory in the West)? I don't get it. Either you're Muslim or not... it's kinda hypocrite to insist loudly that you don't want to eat pork because it's part of your religion if at the same time you don't care about the rest. No amount of not eating pork will save them when God will roast them for getting wasted every day lol. I even knew a Muslim guy that followed the "no pork rule" but refused to fast during ramadan because... he lifted weights and didn't want to lose his gain (he also was a roid head). Likewise, not fasting and doing so consciously when you're able to do it is a serious sin. So why is pork that important..? It will forever remain a mystery.

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janyybek@reddit

Cuz you’re projecting your ideas of Islam on other people. You’re looking from the perspective of adhering to the faith. I’m talking about social reputation.

People want to belong to something. Some kind of identity. Not eating pork allows lazy Muslims to call themselves Muslims. They just say they’re bad Muslims. Do you really not understand how being part of a religion that your family grew up with that is highly intertwined with your nationality or ethnicity isn’t important?

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ChadNEET@reddit

I kinda don't, to be fair... my father is from an Abkhazian Muslim family, but they abandoned Islam since my grandparents and no one follow any tradition ingrained from Islam (and Abkhazians are mostly Christian or Pagan, anyways).

But I get your point yes, I just find it extremely weird. I don't drink alcohol at all either, but it's not a religious thing.

I'm yet to see "Muslims" who don't drink alcohol and eat pork hahahaha...

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janyybek@reddit

Ah ok gotcha yeah that would be a bit different. The case for Bosnians for example, they differentiate themselves from Serbs and Croatians through Islam. They converted long ago and so being Bosnian is intertwined with being Muslim.

Therefore if you want to be Bosnian you need to be at least nominally Muslim due to the politics. However most Bosnians are not serious Muslims and have a culture of drinking and partying like their non Muslim neighbors so to reconcile that, they do the bare minimum to be Muslim while shirking all other duties.

Because you can still participate in modern western culture while abstaining from pork. But you can’t abstain from alcohol and dating so people ignore those rules. That’s why you see Muslims who can avoid pork but can’t avoid alcohol.

I’ve seen Muslims from across the spectrum mixing matching rules.

As an Abkhazian, you’re not required to be a Muslim so you just think it’s silly to try to hold onto Islam using the easiest rule but to a lot of people, identity is again very important.

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DenAbqCitizen@reddit

I've never been a drinker and am from the West. I easily participate in Western culture. People have sworn they've been drinking with me. It's typically not noticeable that I didn't drink. Drinking is only an unavoidable part of Western culture if you're boring or otherwise lacking in personality.

You also def don't need to have sex to culturally/socially fit in. People's friends don't abandon them when they're single and not dating or in marriage with a dead bedroom. Usually you grow closer to friends during long periods of not dating. Dating isn't a requirement for having friends or fitting in with coworkers.

These are excuses. Muslim men do haram things in the West because they consider it an inconsequential temporary play life. I've known them to eat pork too. People who don't eat pork have just had it ingrained in them since childhood that it's disgusting, whereas sex and alcohol provide undeniable pleasure no matter what your parents taught you.

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janyybek@reddit

I’ve never been a drinker and am from the West.

You’re from Bulgaria it seems.

I easily participate in Western culture. People have sworn they’ve been drinking with me. It’s typically not noticeable that I didn’t drink. Drinking is only an unavoidable part of Western culture if you’re boring or otherwise lacking in personality.

Posts on Reddit all day, says other people are boring . And what makes you so exciting my dear boy?

You also def don’t need to have sex to culturally/socially fit in. People’s friends don’t abandon them when they’re single and not dating or in marriage with a dead bedroom. Usually you grow closer to friends during long periods of not dating. Dating isn’t a requirement for having friends or fitting in with coworkers.

…I’m gonna ask this nicely just to make sure I don’t start wasting my time. Have you been on a date before?

These are excuses. Muslim men do haram things in the West because they consider it an inconsequential temporary play life.

Every action in this dunya has a consequence so any Muslim who says it doesn’t, is not really a Muslim.

I’ve known them to eat pork too. People who don’t eat pork have just had it ingrained in them since childhood that it’s disgusting

My parents grew up eating pork and feeding me pork. I don’t eat it. It’s a conscious choice.

Listen not everyone can live the amazing life that you can. Either you’re really not special and that means I don’t need to listen to anything you’re saying. Or you admit you’re a bit out there and I’m talking about generalities like in the United States.

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DenAbqCitizen@reddit

I'm American.

Literally no idea what you mean by "all day". I'm out all day. My spouse woke me in the middle of the night and I couldn't fall back asleep so was on reddit. People's live/travel all over the world in different time zones.

I wouldn't presume to tell anyone their religion is anything other than what they say it is, but alright on the rest. Many young Muslim men behave as if the haram things they do when young don't count, and so do their families.

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janyybek@reddit

But that isn’t unique to Islam, most religious people find ways to say their sins don’t count. Muslims just have it harder because our religion stresses accountability more than other mainstream faiths. Christians for example are amazing at this. They even have a whole denomination dedicated to that (born again).

My point about asking you about being on date was whether you didn’t know anything about modern dating or you simply misunderstood what I was referring to by engaging in premarital sex.

In modern dating, it’s pretty much par of the course. What percentage of people wait til marriage for sex? Even among Christians in the US it’s like less than 20%. And those are super serious religious Christians.

So when you’re a Muslim and you don’t have a huge Muslim network in the United States, there just isn’t a way to date islamically. So young Muslims have pre marital sex or face being locked out of dating outside of having your mom find you a woman from back to marry (usually a cousin which is gross).

All I’m saying is Muslims cling to the pork rule because it’s an easy thing to avoid compared to something more ingrained in modern western culture that doesn’t have alternatives.

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DenAbqCitizen@reddit

Thank you for the longer explanation. The point you made in your last paragraph is understood.

I agree this sort of mental gymnastics isn't unique to Islam.

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ChadNEET@reddit

Oh yeah fair point about Bosniaks... I commented on this not long ago when someone was asking which is his identity because of place of birth, language and religion being complicated... and I agree totally, if it wasn't for Islam/Catholicism/Orthodoxy, there wouldn't be a huge division between Bosniaks/Croats/Serbs.

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zollizolli@reddit

Islam forgives everything except eating pork hahaha

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Archaeopteryx11@reddit

Pork is delicious.

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Fragrant-Loan-1580@reddit

It really is.

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Archaeopteryx11@reddit

Have you had pork sarmale in the Romanian style?

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Fragrant-Loan-1580@reddit

No, tbh I didn’t even know there was a version of sarma with pork but now i’m drooling at the thought of it.

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Archaeopteryx11@reddit

Yeah, it can be made with either cabbage leaves or grape leaves.

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tarn_198@reddit

Yes it is

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Archaeopteryx11@reddit

You should have some Romanian pork sarmale!

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GreatshotCNC@reddit

Attempting to pay the bill when someone wants to treat you.

I've actually seen this end badly with the two people fighting.

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Goated549@reddit

Thats just canon event, if you dont do that its gypsy behaviour

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SuperMarioMiner@reddit

Not offering food to guests = HARAM

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Fragrant-Loan-1580@reddit

The other side of that coin as well. When you’re a guest and you decline any food and drink offered to you.

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Goated549@reddit

Cant relate, i thought you were not supposed to accept it since its gypsy behaviour to accept food

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DefiantAbalone1@reddit

Is there really no polite way to decline without offending them?

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SuperMarioMiner@reddit

hmmm....
not really, no...
not without at least tasting it

like so:
you take a small bite...
and then praise the host how well prepared it is...
and then apologize and say you can't have any more than that one bite.

after that...
they will still offer it to you a few more times (just in case you change your mind)
but you should be scot-free. ;)

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Xanriati@reddit

That’s a bad trait of Balkan culture, honestly. Fragile ego.

People that cannot take “no thank you” for an answer, whom repeatedly invade your personal autonomy/choice under the guise of “kindness” (actually, pushiness).

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circlecircling@reddit

Honestly that prevented me from going to a lot of social outings like birthdays and weddings, even just someone's home if I know that that will be the case, I'm an adult now and I mostly ended a lot of relationships with people over that fact

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Radiant-Safe-1377@reddit

my uncle just keeps pouring more food and rakia independently of what i say

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Fragrant-Loan-1580@reddit

They don’t take no for an answer that’s for sure

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metaglot@reddit

Offering vs refusing - TO THE DEATH!

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PublicPalpitation618@reddit

And rakiya/coffee (depending on time of day)

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GSA_Gladiator@reddit

this

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GreatshotCNC@reddit

One of the best aspects of the local culture

Westoids will never understand

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AncientLab2339@reddit

Wearing shoes in the house

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Usual-Leg-4921@reddit

I’m surprised your comment didn’t get attacked by the Greeks like mine did. Apparently not a very popular take amongst them.

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AncientLab2339@reddit

Yeah, what’s with that. They’re just dragging dirt and stuff from outside into someone’s house.

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KbLbTb@reddit

YES!! F*CKING HARAM ALL THE WAY!

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the42the@reddit

Swimming directly after eating / Greece

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Relevant_Mobile6989@reddit

Eating da poo poo, or dogs, or cats.

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Mucklord1453@reddit

Bringing an Albanian home to meet mother.

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whoizdatboy@reddit

Placing bread upside down on the table. >:(

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star_relevant@reddit

Same in Serbia, my grandpa used to sternly "fix" the bread every time I would leave it upside down lol

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harvestt77@reddit

My grandpa would say that, too. I think in Romania they have the same - it is Christ's face that you put down ...

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42not34@reddit

Exactly! And when you're done with the meal, you can't throw the breadcrumbs away. You have to get them to the birds, that's why some 20 years ago there were still enough peasants moved by force to the city who after a meal would shake the breadcrumbs from the tablecloth at the kitchen window, leaning outside.

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