The oldest depiction of Archimedes shows him wearing a Dacian Cap and Dacian Clothing
Posted by xperio28@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 94 comments
pdonchev@reddit
Just for reference, the percentage of pseudoscience and pseudohistory enthusiasts in Bulgaria is just the same as in any other nation. Just ringing that in. We do not all believe that Phyrgians were Thracians.
Celestial_Presence@reddit
Yeah I agree, I believe that historiography in Bulgaria has progressed a lot and that it's one of the best in the Balkans currently.
Bubbly_Ad427@reddit
Thanks for the recognition.
CypriotGreek@reddit
I hope this doesn’t mean what I think it means
albardha@reddit
It does: Albanians will be in the comments. /s
But unlike say, Pythagoras, Archimedes’ history is better known and he was certainly ethnic Greek. It is possible this statue has been misattributed to Archimedes, it happens a lot, but even if it is a correct attribution, there are many explanations to his attire that don’t imply Dacian origin.
Maybe he thought Dacian clothing had drip and preferred to be remembered wearing that.
Maybe the sculptor was trying to represent him in a Dacian attire as propaganda for Roman citizens to make them see the newly invaded Dacians as just another kind of Romans (the sculpture belongs to Trajan era)
Maybe they were trying to be make a point, that intelligence transcends cultures, even those who look barbarian can produce great philosophers.
Maybe it was a mistake.
Honestly, Jesus has been portrayed without a beard in early Christian art because there was a lot of conflation with Jesus and Apollo or Dionysus, then they started adding beard because beards are associated with philosophers. Depictions are not trying to be accurate, they are trying to be symbolic.
xperio28@reddit (OP)
Several early philosophers have connection to the Thracian Orphic Mysteries as the Pythagorean Mysteries were derived and parallel to them.
From: Pythagoras - His Life, Teachings, and Influence by Christoph Riedweg
Theology of numbers is being developed in Dorian language: Pythagoras, it is said, had received this speech as the Thracian Orpheus' teaching from the priest of the mysteries Aglaophamus on the occasion of his initiation in Leibethra:
"This ‹discourse> is what I Pythagoras, son of Mnemarchus, learned on initiation in the Thracian Libethra, from Aglaophamus the ini-tiator, who communicated to me that Orpheus, son of Calliope, taught by his mother on Mt. Pangaeon, said: "The eternal being of number is a most provident principle of the whole heaven, earth, and of the intermediate nature; moreover it is a source of permanence for divine [men] and gods and daemons."
(lambl. VPyth. 146 = Pythag. Hier. log. dor. fr. 1, p. 164 Thesleff; transl. Dillon and Hershbell)
In lamblichus VPyth. 151, Orpheus is mentioned as the model for Pythagoras' way of speaking, spiritual attitude, and of worshiping the gods.
^(Riedweg, Christoph (2005) [2002].) ^(Pythagoras: His Life, Teachings, and Influence)^(. Ithaca, New York: Cornell University Press.) ^(ISBN) ^(978-0-8014-7452-1)^(.)
KrystalleniaD@reddit
Bulgarians claim Thracians? And if so, why? What's the connection?
Bubbly_Ad427@reddit
Only cuz we have predominantly thracian blood... or thus says some DNA tests.
xperio28@reddit (OP)
Ehm.. partial ancestry (we're mixed). Because 55% of bulgarian autosomal DNA is of paleo-balkan origin predating slavs and bulgars (altho that's true for every country in the Balkans in its own right) and because when the bulgarians founded their country on the Danube, the Byzantine Greeks/Eastern Romans predominantly called them Mysi/Moesi which is the name of an old Thracian tribe that Strabo and Herodotus mentioned to have split in ancient times, where a big portion of it migrated to Turkey with other thracian tribes, and another wave of them migrated with Alexander the Great as cavalry in his army. And much later the medieval Byzantine priest Demetrios Chomatenos explained further why they called the bulgarians mysi. He says that Ohrid of Bulgaria indeed descends from these Mysi/Moesi and that after many generations this horsemen tribe returned to Europe, crossing the Danube from the North and conquering the Byzantine lands of Pannonia, Dalmatia, Dardania, Illyria, Thrace, Macedonia and Thessaly (starting from Moesia and potentially reuniting with remnants of romanized/hellenized Moesi who never left). The rest is cultural continuity but it's not as striking as genetics and historical accounts.
I quoted Herodotus and Strabo about the Mysi in another comment. The document by Demeter Chomatenos is here but the wayback machine is currently down, here's a screenshot of it. It's on Ancient Greek so you might be able to read it.
Celestial_Presence@reddit
Please take a look at the sources in the article you cited and tell me where it says "55% Paleo-Balkan"... It's non-existent, completely made up and it will be removed, sooner or later, due to it being unsupported.
The rest of your comment has Afrocentrist-like arguments, so I won't comment on it.
xperio28@reddit (OP)
You really haven't looked at a map have you. This is paternal lineages mind you. Orange is Levantine African but don't be confused, their migration to Europe occurred around 10 000 BC. It's the most common paternal lineage in almost all Balkan countries. Autosomal DNA varies even less than paternal lineages across the Balkans.
Celestial_Presence@reddit
1) This has nothing to do with my original comment. Absolutely nothing.
2) Y-DNA doesn't determine aDNA. Stop obsessing over it! Bulgarians have circa 15% "Thracian"(-related) aDNA, as I showed above. You still haven't produced an argument against this btw.
3) I can tell that this map is bs, because Crete's haplos are all messed up (see below; image taken from a legit academic study).
xperio28@reddit (OP)
You really don't get how genetic distance works do you? This view is relative to the closest sample to the target shifting the whole graph according to that sample's genetic distance. You can't compare medieval samples with the same measuring bar that you do iron age samples because the medieval sample has had 2000 more years to accumulate changes.
Celestial_Presence@reddit
Sure then. I cba arguing against this so let's just take a look at actual genetic studies.
Oops, 55% Slavic-like ancestry! This is also the study which you cited above (through the Wiki), stating that 55% of your ancestry is "Thracian" (lol).
Now, let's move onto another study, shall we? This one is by Bulgarian researchers:
And here's another one:
Forget the quotes about distances, since you dislike them. Your "Thracian" aDNA (however much there is) is indirect and that Bulgarian Paleo-Balkan ancestry is not Thracian-specific. Please stop LARPing. I know you probably won't but it doesn't hurt to try. Think of it like quitting smoking, ay?
xperio28@reddit (OP)
The first chart is not sourced, the selection of donors is ambiguous and the reference data sample is only a single individual. Every other proper genetic study shows Bulgarians and Romanians almost exactly the same, this one purports Romanians are Turkic slavs.
xperio28@reddit (OP)
This is the source for Crete: https://www.nature.com/articles/5201769.pdf
Celestial_Presence@reddit
I don't think this is meant to be used like this lol. They didn't even use samples from Western Crete. The numbers also seem a bit off. For example, the map shows Crete at 9.5% G, but the source has it at 6.4% (Fig. 2, avg mine).
xperio28@reddit (OP)
It's not the only source for Crete, there's more sources from general studies and papers dedicated to the regional averages for all parts of Greece. Everything has been combined and averaged out, I'm not the person who compiled the data, I made the map.
Celestial_Presence@reddit
Sure it is. Sorry, I'm not into amateurish work.
https://i.redd.it/xd8sqx6dasud1.gif
Celestial_Presence@reddit
The sources for this map:
xperio28@reddit (OP)
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/origins_haplogroups_europe.shtml#Sources
KrystalleniaD@reddit
First, the paleo Balkan ancestry could be anything, not just Thracian. Not only Bulgarians have some Thracian ancestry but Northern Greeks, Macedonians or Turks could as easily have too. That's not a strong connection
Secondly, the Byzantines called everyone by an ancient tribe's name. They called Serbians Triballi iirc. That's not an argument
So it's as I expected. Not that much of a connection
xperio28@reddit (OP)
Not really, comparisons have been made between DNA from Thracian remains from Tombs and modern Bulgarians, the genetic distance goes as low as 0,005 which is only 0,5% distance. I'm not sure if you understand genetics, this doesn't make the modern sample 99,95% like the Thracian one, this just says that the parts that are shared don't vary at all, confirming descent. On the other side, the most common Thracian paternal lineage is a local variant of E-V13 which is visibly carried by about 55% of Bulgarians today.
Can you point me towards your sources? Do you believe that Herodotus, Strabo, Chomatenos and every instance of the Byzantines calling the Bulgarians Mysi were all wrong?
Another clue is that when Bulgaria was founded it stopped using the Greek city, mountain and rive names used by the Byzantines and reverted to using the Thracian names instead of making new Slavic or Bulgar names.
Celestial_Presence@reddit
Fam... 0.5% distance isn't low, you understand that right? And it's more 0.78%, not 0.5%. Additionally, distance is NOT ancestry. You barely have 15% East Balkan (Thracian-related) aDNA. Not 55% as you claimed above.
xperio28@reddit (OP)
You're seem too triggered. Do you happen to be from Northern Greece and going through identity crisis?
Celestial_Presence@reddit
No, I am an islander. But even if I was northern Greek there would be no point to go through an "identity crisis".
I'm "triggered" because of people spreading pseudohistory, all around. I'd leave you alone if you just said "we are partly descended of Thracians", which is true, but you said 55% which is just false. I know you have your POVs and don't care about being correct, but you should at least try to not lie.
And except that, you tried to claim Archimedes, a Greek from South Italy, as Thracian (and by extension "Bulgarian"). That's what "triggered" me.
xperio28@reddit (OP)
You say...
That's what I always said. The rest I base on numerous research papers. If the sources on the Bulgarians wikipedia article are not enough for you there are 8 more papers linked on the Thracians wikipedia article (it has two sections for genetics).
In Global25, Ancient PCA for Bulgaria predominantly represents Mesolithic Europeans from before the Thracian ethnogenesis, it hasn't been updated for years now for Bulgaria and Romania. The dedicated scientific papers are the best for targeting Thracian remains specifically and drawing comparisons. Besides that, distance inevitably increases with each half a millennia and the bar only gets lower the larger the chronological distance between the samples.
You also plainly ignore Herodotus and Strabo's accounts of the Phrygians and all subsequent ancient authors of the same opinion.
Celestial_Presence@reddit
This is one of the worst G25s I've ever seen. WOW. Truly asinine, I'm done here.
xperio28@reddit (OP)
Relax... You have access to the G25 data, you can check and see that this is what comes out.
You're gonna say Romanians are latinized Greeks now or what?
KrystalleniaD@reddit
My friend, you're somewhat confused I believe. What Herodotus and Strabo have to do with Bulgarians?
And what does Bulgarians using the Thracian names for cities have to do with anything? How's that an argument? You mock Macedonians about them claiming ancestry from ancient Macedonia (which could be totally true genetically as well) but you're doing the same.
As for genetics, I don't know. I found this wiki link but I can't say I understand anything. Anyway, I think talking about genetics is not allowed in this sub
Trying to connect with an ancient civilization that doesn't have any obvious connection to you just because they lived in some parts of your country and parts of other countries too is a little pathetic in my honest opinion. Take Minoans for example. We know they lived in Crete but we know thet they were most probably not Greek. And anyway, I find Bulgars a lot more fascinating than Thracians to be honest
arhisekta@reddit
that's nice, this way we Serbs can finally claim Vinča to be ancient Serbia (5000 BCE)
xperio28@reddit (OP)
The Mysi are originally from Europe tho, but you're kind of right since they are more affiliated with the Mediterranean Farmers that arrived later from Levant. On the other hand Vinca is part of the Paleo-Balkan culture group that also includes Karanovo, Lower Yamnaya, Varna, Hamagnia and Gumelnita. All have those weird alien figures, the same clay style and notably swastikas. As far as I know the entire thing began quite close to Vinca at the Iron Gates, the modern day location is centered on the border between Serbia and Romania and extends into North-West Bulgaria where it overlaps with Karanovo.
Celestial_Presence@reddit
It's common Balkanoid pseudohistory and insecurity about one's origins. I've seen some Greeks claiming Thracians too, I wouldn't think much of it. I just debunk their arguments and move on.
HumanMan00@reddit
What do you think it means?
CypriotGreek@reddit
That Archimedes wasnt "Greek" but dacian or dare I say Albanian/illyrian as someone here mentioned already.
AlienGeneticHybrid@reddit
I went through all comments and didn't see a single Albanian claiming he's Illyrian, so what are you going on about?
damjan193@reddit
Wait, what does Dacia have to do with Albania? Wasn't Dacia where Romania is or something like that?
CypriotGreek@reddit
That’s what I’m saying, though.
damjan193@reddit
I never knew Albanians claim Dacians tbh.
CypriotGreek@reddit
This is the internet, everything is possible, i mean i've seen albanians go as far as to claim that the mesopotamian was ancient albanian and that the mesopotamians where albanian
HumanMan00@reddit
It’s a 1500s drawing of a man who lives 200 - 300 years BC.
It’s an almost 2000 years distance.
Not exactly a smoking gun in terms of ethnicity change.
CypriotGreek@reddit
I am balkan enough to not understand any of those words you used in your last sentence.
Greekmon07@reddit
Phrygian cap?
xperio28@reddit (OP)
Yes
WanaxAndreas@reddit
The Phrygians weren't Dacians even though the caps they wore were similar with the Thracians and Dacians so I'm not sure what do you gain by calling it Dacian.They originated in today's Albania but migrated to Anatolia and their language was the closest non-greek language to Greek
xperio28@reddit (OP)
I'm not sure where you're getting that from. In another comment I quote Strabo and Herodotus identifying the Phrygians as the Thracian Tribe Brygians who renamed themselves following their migration to Anatolia. Aside from that Dacian are academically seen as a regional subgroup of the Thracians residing North of the Danube and speaking a dialect of the composite Thracian language. I'm don't know of any connections to Albania or the Illyrians, Albanians are quite adamant that the Illyrian are a separate group with more connections to the Epirus than the Thracians and Dacians. I have nothing to gain from this, what's presented is visibly Dacian clothing and the Dacian design of the Phrygian cap that comes in various shapes and sizes.
Celestial_Presence@reddit
The Phrygians were definitely NOT Thracians. Stop basing your opinions on ancient sources that you cannot interpret correctly. The Brygi in the Balkans have barely anything to do with the Phrygians of Anatolia and, even then, the Brygi were a separate non-Thracian tribe, despite inhabiting Thrace (they also inhabited Illyria and Epirus).
The Phrygians were mostly Anatolians (85%) with a little bit of Balkan (15%). The closest population to them are Anatolian/Island Greeks, followed by Armenians. Their language was related to Greek, forming the branch known as Graeco-Phrygian.
Bubbly_Ad427@reddit
Don't get too worked up with my compatriots. They caught the virus from our western cousins in trying to steal everyones ancient history. Some of them claim Jesus was bulgarian.
xperio28@reddit (OP)
Guess Herodotus and Strabo didn't know what they were talking about then. Besides the Bithyni living next to the Phrygians are confirmed to be the Thracian tribe Thyni that migrated to Anatolia, and they themselves are also equated as relatives of the Phrygians for obvious reasons.
Celestial_Presence@reddit
Yep, although the had good intentions, they've made mistakes. I prefer reading modern scholarship. But the MAIN issue is that we're not in their heads, so we don't know what exactly they mean when they utter a controversial sentence and they can easily be misinterpreted, willfully or not.
They weren't "relatives" of the Phrygians, they just bordered them. The "Thraco-Phrygian" bs is currently discarded in scholarship. Georgiev himself said that Phrygian and Thracian is as close as Greek and Albanian, so plz don't start with this, lol.
Sabazios was an Anatolian God worshipped by the Lydians and the Lycians besides the Phrygians; the Thracians might've adopted him. This is the modern consensus. Calling a God with a regional epithet means nil here.
I don't trust Herodotus blindly mate. I trust modern historical, linguistic and archaeological researchers. Some times, Herodotus gets it right, sometimes he doesn't. It's that simple.
DardanianGOD@reddit
Aka Albanian. We still wear the same cap today
Russiantigershark@reddit
Holy shit, Romanian
arhisekta@reddit
he was clearly Albaniahn
Celestial_Presence@reddit
No, he's trying to prove that he was Thracian and as such Bulgarian heritage. It's cope, but I'm used to reading such things.
arhisekta@reddit
I'm fine with it. This way I can say that we Serbs are actually Vinčans, and were the most advanced civilization in the Bronze Age. Which ancient civ do you choose?
Celestial_Presence@reddit
https://i.redd.it/xk5rnb6hurud1.gif
I choose Scythians!
Celestial_Presence@reddit
Next up on Balkanoid psueudohistory: "Attis was Thracian saar he wore a Thracian cap trust me". Do you NOT realize how pathetic this makes you look?
And you trying to somehow prove (with evidence out of your ass) that Archimedes was... Thracian is just weird. You claimed in another comment that "no other notable philosopher came from that city [Syracuse]"... Why limit it to philosophers, when Archimedes himself wasn't a philosopher? Anyways, there were Greek tragedians, poets and historians who came from Syracuse. So I have no idea what you were trying to imply in the first place.
Liquid_Chrome8909@reddit
Thats not "the oldest depiction of Archimedes" its just a more modern drawing on what the autor thought he might look like, the other photos are of supposed Dacians
xperio28@reddit (OP)
It's copied from a Bronze Medal he found in the roman ruins of Sicily. That's what the text below the image says.
Liquid_Chrome8909@reddit
Can you provide the link of the original, or what exactly you are referring to? Pls
xperio28@reddit (OP)
The first image of the post, under it it's written in Old French. I translated it verbatim in another comment on this post which ended up on the bottom. Even without that, if you look at the image you can make out the words Sicily, bronze and medal.
Liquid_Chrome8909@reddit
Man, i am asking for evidence, is there any "bronze medal" material finding that is contemporary to Archimedes? If yes where can i see it
xperio28@reddit (OP)
The medal contemporary of Archimedes or from a later Roman Period when his home city was incorporated in the Empire. The artifact has not survived or it's stashed somewhere. This image is a manual copy made by the historian who had access to it in 1584.
OsarmaBeanLatin@reddit
Daniel Roxin has joined the chat
Leontopod1um@reddit
Who's he?
OsarmaBeanLatin@reddit
A "historian" obsessed with Dacians who spreads conspiracy theories about them.
xperio28@reddit (OP)
Did he popularize the Alien Dacian Sphinx Myth
Leontopod1um@reddit
That's only bad if they are wrong. I'll have to check him out.
ve_rushing@reddit
Wow, was he also a sans-culotte?
SirPizzaTheThird@reddit
Imagine if the Balkans actually did new shit instead of claiming random dead dudes.
Ok-Pen5248@reddit
People do that a lot in poorer regions of the world, and everyone has a thing going on.
The Lebanese wuz Phoenicians, and the Kurds wuz Gutians, Medes, Sumerians, Carduchi, Parthians, Scythians, and whatever else the fuck they'd like to claim due to a lack of extensive knowledge on their ancient history.
This is what they get for not using that cool alphabet that they had before the Perso-Arabic script to write shit down on paper.
Qoat18@reddit
Are Lebanese people like pretty much genetically contiguous thought most of history? There’s influxes of Greek and Arab but largely the population has stayed the same, genetically at least. Obviously the cultures are radically different now
Ok-Pen5248@reddit
In terms of mediocre genetic calculators, they are largely of native Canaanite and Levantine descent, but they lost their language long ago, so claiming to be anything more than just being Lebanese or an Arab, is simply stupid
Then there's the Kurds... They'll do just about anything for an ancient history to be completely honest with you, even if linguistics and genetics say no.
xperio28@reddit (OP)
If they claim that they are them it's wrong, I think Lebanese claim descent only. It's an interesting topic since language is not universally placed above genetics in determining ethnicity and in the middle ages faith was above both of these. Do you think Greeks assimilated in Turkey are Turks and Greeks assimilated in Greece are Greeks?
Ok-Pen5248@reddit
Religion and other aspects are certainly a big part of it too.
Jews were only really kept together after their many expulsions due to religion, and any Jew that left back in those days probably wasn't really seen as Jewish in contrast to now. Back then, Judaism was the largest decider on whether you were Jewish or not, even if you were of Israelite descent, or a convert.
The Lebanese no longer worship any variation of Baal or any other Canaanite god, the revived identity only sprang back up in the modern era and probably wasn't known to the average lower class Northern Levantine farmer back in the 16th century who likely thought of himself as an Arab or a name given to Syriac speakers in the region, they don't celebrate any important holidays they could have had, and in general, they've only preserved the clothing and dabke, but that's it.
xperio28@reddit (OP)
It depends on the point of view, but in both cases it's people who were forced or incentivized to convert and made to abandon their language and culture. It's not just Lebanon but also Egypt, Morocco, Syria etc.
Ok-Pen5248@reddit
I get your point, but to me, it's plenty of aspects.
Greek have atleast kept the language and other cultural aspects from the ancients to take along with them, but the Lebanese have basically lost it all besides from clothes and Dabke.
The best they can get to Phoenician is from the loanwords in their Levantine dialect of Arabic.
xperio28@reddit (OP)
Yes the difference is apparent I just wanted to hear your point of view.
Qoat18@reddit
I mean that’s a hard question though I don’t think it’s necessarily stupid, like French people claim kinship with franks despite having basically nothing in common in terms of language or culture and having negligible genetic relationship
Ok-Pen5248@reddit
That's fair, but Lebanese people just seem to think of the Phoenicians as a one-up to get good and to rival the gulf countries and their thriving economies to feel a bit better about the state of Lebanon (although it's not all of them), as you'll occasionally get Iraqis and Levantines going on about how the Arabian peninsula supposedly had no civilisation to feel better about themselves.
The French seem to see the Franks as a large part in the building of French civilisation, and where the nation is today, as well as the Gauls as their ferocious genetic ancestors, and the Romans being the ones who spread their language and culture in order to make the nation what it is today.
Maleficent_Hyena_32@reddit
May the naked axe wielding Zalmoxis have mercy on your soul for this post
Qoat18@reddit
That’s a Phrygian cap
VirnaDrakou@reddit
God dammit robmanians! 😔😔😔
/S BC SOME OF U R DUMB
Ricckkuu@reddit
Of course, because Romania during pre history owned the entire world, however, Romania is kind and gave land to other countrie because kind.
Back then smart people Romanian because vecauze transition still hapen to other countrie.
DavidGaming1237@reddit
The thinker
ridesharegai@reddit
Everyday is a battle
xperio28@reddit (OP)
This is the oldest depiction of Archimedes from the 1584 work of the french historian and ethnographer André Thevet. It predates all subsequent statues and paintings of Archimedes. Officially there are no surviving depictions of Archimedes from ancient times. However in his work "Vrais pourtraits et vies des hommes illustres" (1584), André Thevet provides hundreds of illustration portraits of notable people from history, most of which were based on old artifacts and statues he encountered.
Under the illustration of Archimedes wearing the Dacian Cap it says the following: Archetypal and brilliant depiction on a large bronze medal found in Sicily, in the foundations of cities founded by Roman Caesars. /Translated from Old French
For context Archimedes was born, lived and killed in his home city Syracuse in Sicily. Based on the description, this image is a copy of an ancient depiction of Archimedes from there.
Vrais pourtraits et vies des hommes illustres (1584), page 46
The later depictions of Archimedes
IonutRO@reddit
Or they just copied a medal sepicting someone else entirely.
xperio28@reddit (OP)
There was no notable Geometrist from that city and period. Besides, on his hat it's written in Greek: Archimedes the Geometrist.
He was 100% a greek speaker, what's peculiar is his heritage and whether he spoke other languages.
Targoniann@reddit
The cap fits him so well, idk why it reminds me of the thracians' helmets that had that curve of the top of it
VastUnderstanding326@reddit
or Scythian of Phrigyan soo
xperio28@reddit (OP)
They're all part of the same ethnic group. Since Archimedes' attire looks most like the regional Dacian variant I presume he has a connection to them specifically.
Strabo 7.3.2: "Now the Greeks used to suppose that the Getae were Thracians; and the Getae lived on either side the Ister, as did also the Mysi, these also being Thracians and identical with the people who are now called Moesi; from these Mysi sprang also the Mysi who now live between the Lydians and the Phrygians and Trojans. And the Phrygians themselves are Brigians, a Thracian tribe, as are also the Mygdonians, the Bebricians, the Medobithynians, the Bithynians, and the Thynians, and, I think, also the Mariandynians."
Herodotus 6.45 and 7.73: "Thus fared the fleet; and meanwhile Mardonios and the land-army while encamping in Macedonia were attacked in the night by the Brygian Thracians, and many of them were slain by the Brygians and Mardonios himself was wounded."; "Now the Phrygians, as the Macedonians say, used to be called Brigians during the time that they were natives of Europe and dwelt with the Macedonians; but after they had changed into Asia, with their country they changed also their name and were called Phrygians. The Armenians were armed just like the Phrygians, being settlers from the Phrygians."
Strabon 7.3.2: "Again, the appended phrase is testimony to this very view, because the poet (Homer) connected with the Mysi the "Hippemolgi" and "Galactophagi" and "Abii," who are indeed the wagon-dwelling Scythians and Sarmatians. For at the present time these tribes, as well as the Bastarnian tribes, are mingled with the Thracians (more indeed with those outside the Ister, but also with those inside). And mingled with them are also the Celtic tribes — the Boii, the Scordisci, and the Taurisci. However, the Scordisci are by some called "Scordistae"; and the Taurisci are called also "Ligurisci" and "Tauristae."
albardha@reddit
To clarify how this is a Dacian clothing, look at the pants.
Pants were basically considered barbaric in Greek and later Roman culture. Rome got over it though by the third century because pretty much all their emperors were Illyrican at that time (with a ‘c’ to not mean in ethnic, but geographic sense), and whether they liked it or not, Illyricans wore pants.
Also, toga is actually obnoxiously heavy to wear, those barbarian were much smarter to wear comfortable clothes. Here’s what they’re supposed to look
ElectricalWorry590@reddit
Confirmed: Smurf