Needs to be said
Posted by Aggravating-Reason77@reddit | preppers | View on Reddit | 258 comments
I’ve been in and around these “Prepper”groups since I learned how to navigate the internet and I feel as though the issue of firearm ownership for self defense is skipped over far too quickly or easily dismissed.
Typically I can keep my thoughts to myself on issues relating to self defense and an individuals personal belief that a firearm is not readily necessary in a situation other than the Apocalypse itself. Earlier today (10-12-24) I witnessed a thread with many comments proclaiming their opinion that a firearm & firearm training shouldn’t be on a preppers mind at all; though I don’t understand how this can be justified (as long as they are legal in your area).
The fact is no matter how many supplies you have they’re immaterial if you cannot defend them and yourself. In our current political climate firearms are a touchy subject perhaps even rightly so, but with proper training they can quite literally be the difference of life or death. I understand the stigma of “money doesn’t grow on trees and could be used elsewhere”. My question to you is how can you ignore a reliable lifeline for $300 or less? The truth is a reliable and effective handgun made by Ruger for example (ruger max 9) is around $220, I personally know people who use this and have sent hundreds of rounds down range without failure.
Naturally you shouldn’t believe a handgun or and firearm is the only definitive answer to the question of “how can I be best prepared”, every situation is different and you should plan accordingly. It’s correct to point out that many things such as food, water, and shelter are equally or probably more important, but what good will any of that do if you can’t protect yourself and it?
Finally, I would like to clarify that I am NOT some gun nut or a political advocate for either (or any) side rather a conscientious observer hoping to hear from other perspectives.
jpeetz1@reddit
I seriously doubt you can make many situations better with a pistol. A hunting rifle does double duty and should be considered instead.
Aggravating-Reason77@reddit (OP)
A hunting rifle is not concealable on your body, you can’t compare the uses of a hunting rifle to a handgun as they both serve different purposes
jpeetz1@reddit
I understand, and I still think my point is valid.you’re just likely to get yourself in trouble with a pistol
Aggravating-Reason77@reddit (OP)
Can you elaborate?
DarkFriend1987@reddit
I didn’t know this even needed to be said. Pretty obvious to me. It’s a tool.
CharmingFeature8@reddit
You mean watching and learning home alone tactics is not an option?
ashmegrace@reddit
Me and my old roommate had a stalker. The cops literally told us to put buckets of Legos on the window sills so if he came in through the windows it would fall and make noise. They told us to put a bunch of matchbox cars on the floor under the windows so he would fall
I'm definitely glad I'm not depending on my kids toy box for personal protection anymore.
R1chard_Nix0n@reddit
After the tv and 3 of the 4 roommates laptops got stolen (and a bunch of other stuff that I don't remember) got stolen in 3 break ins some guys I went to highschool with and I nailed a bunch of shit we found together and put it under the windows.
One night they came back from the bar to police cars, an engine, an ambulance and some concerned neighbors because there was a bunch of screaming coming from their apartment.
Turns out people really don't like stepping onto 4" nails sticking up from old pallets and other random scrap wood.
We found out the guy breaking in managed to catch nails in both feet, shins, one knee, and one forearm.
GlocksnFeet@reddit
The Diddy method is the preferred method now. Nothing scares people off like a good freak off
Heck_Spawn@reddit
Just keep one of these on your front porch...
https://www.amazon.com/Passion-Lubes-Natural-Water-Based-Lubricant/dp/B005MR3IVO
HowToRedditEven@reddit
Anyone else go to the link and get lost reading the reviews!?
GlocksnFeet@reddit
I’m…i’m shocked this is a real thing
AffectionateWash8997@reddit
That much baby oil will scare anyone.
reddog323@reddit
Right, but where do you store it??? I don’t have the room to prep properly covering that kind of overhead. How much do I need?
AffectionateWash8997@reddit
I'd advise you utilize your second swimming pool.
Five-Point-5-0@reddit
"Hey Alexa, ask the intruders if they've had enough or are they thirsty for more?"
Independent-Lead-155@reddit
Underrated comment
finallygotmeone@reddit
Hey Alexa, who is a filthy animal?
Lulukassu@reddit
Hey Alexa, keep the change
mactheprint@reddit
And my bow...
Castle_of_Jade@reddit
Kevin Mccallister was a small genius/attempted murderer. Still good planning and efficient use of what he had on hand. Good technical skills. Maybe a bit too excited about causing others life changing injuries. But I got to give it to him he did a good enough job to get another movie out of it.
keally1123@reddit
Whoa whoa whoa...nobody said that. Those home defense techniques are widely used around the world to this day.
One_hung_hiigh@reddit
So guns aren't violent?! D'oh
TyranaSoreWristWreck@reddit
About as violent as your toaster. People are violent, though. Inanimate objects have trouble being violent without the aid of a human.
Jondiesel78@reddit
Your toaster is violent. Try to drown it.
TyranaSoreWristWreck@reddit
Great. Now it's ruined.
Jondiesel78@reddit
You forgot to plug it in first
TyranaSoreWristWreck@reddit
Is there still time?
One_hung_hiigh@reddit
My point exactly. Sarcasm was missed.
TyranaSoreWristWreck@reddit
My fault. I thought it might be sarcasm after I already posted.
PawJobAddict@reddit
I wasn’t aware that there were preppers who thought owning a gun was unnecessary lol. I figured that if you’re gonna be prepared for one worst case scenario, you’d be prepared for a million others. A gun is a reliable lifeline to have even outside of the end of the world.
chiquimonkey@reddit
I’m from Canada, and am planning on starting to prep soon.
I came to the same conclusion as you have-when shit hits the fan, food insecurity will absolutely cause people to scavenge (or worse) for food, and if you are sitting on a big stockpile, you had better be prepared to defend it.
Aggravating-Reason77@reddit (OP)
See I’m an American & I can’t speak to your gun laws specifically
I know they’ve been getting exponentially stricter there about firearms, not to say you should or shouldn’t be an exception to the rule - just something to keep in mind if the time comes.
chiquimonkey@reddit
You can own guns in Canada, but they’re heavily restricted.
Part of the prep will be figuring out what is legal here & how to work within those perimeters.
prepperdave321@reddit
Canadian here too, I've been thinking of getting my license too. I know a thing or two about the laws because I have a lot of friends and family members that hunt. There's no denying they're restrictive and there's a few weird rules, but I think many Americans think they're more restrictive than they are. Basically any action other than a fully automatic action is allowed, but you can only have 5-round magazines (with a few specific exceptions). There's two main classes, non-restricted and restricted. Non-restricted are your typical long guns like shotguns, centre-fire rifles, and rimfire rifles. Restricted are rifles with barrels shorter than a certain length and handguns. Notably, you cannot hunt with a restricted firearm. To get a license, you have to pass a criminal background check, answer some questions about your mental health, and provide character references. Certainly more restrictive than the states, but probably looser than many other westernized countries including the UK, Australia, and most of Europe.
Saxit@reddit
You can own handguns in most of Europe. Canada banned new sales of handguns very recently so unless you already have one you're out of luck, no?
You can also own an AR-15 in most of Europe (mostly for shooting sports, but for hunting in some countries).
It's somewhat faster to get the requirements in Canada though, but that also varies a lot in Europe depending on the country.
I'm in Sweden. I can insert any capacity magazines in my AR-15 or in my handguns (though while hunting with a semi-auto I can only use 5+1, but at the range there is no such limit; hunting laws vs firearms laws).
Germany for example is more restrictive when it comes to magazine capacity, it's 20 for handguns, 10 for semi-automatic rifles.
You can hunt with an AR-15 in both Germany and Sweden.
Aggravating-Reason77@reddit (OP)
I’m sure you’d know better than me regarding legalities when it comes to firearms in your area, regardless thank you for the perspective from our northern more preppers!
Traditional_Neat_387@reddit
I understand that point, but also keep in mind the biggest tip to being a good prepper is not letting a ton of people know it. Ie hide your supplies so people you bring over don’t notice them, some good places include your personal bedroom, closets, basements, attics, ect. Also with the laws lately in Canada (not trying to joke) but I would work on trying to get speedy with a bolt action because dang the laws are getting crazy there
RabicanShiver@reddit
Lever action is infinitely better than bolt action of they're legal for you.
capt-bob@reddit
Or pump action
Saloncinx@reddit
Food, water, multivitamins, medication, flashlight, ways to stay warm cause you're in Canada. Plenty of ways to start small but those are the main ones you're going to want to work on to stay self sufficient for a while if SHTF
psychocabbage@reddit
I always said in an upside down world, if you have a sandwich but no gun and I have a gun but no sandwich at the very least we both have half a sandwich.
pigglewaddle@reddit
Guns are good yes, however, a LIGHT on your gun makes it great! Know what’s on the business end of whatever needs shooting.
Aggravating-Reason77@reddit (OP)
Depending on the circumstances a light could be good or bad, for CQB a strobe would be efficient. If you’re out in the woods, all you’ll be doing is giving away your position.
TheSensiblePrepper@reddit
You make valid points.
As someone who owns many firearms and has been issued several licenses by the Federal Government for many related things, I feel the issues are the firearms themselves but the people.
An example is the person that gets a firearm to have it "just in case" but never uses it. I am going to have to call out my Mother-in-law on this one. She wanted an AR-15 for home protection before she "couldn't get one anymore." I will ignore the fact that an AR-15 in a Suburban setting is a terrible idea for someone that is completely untrained. She has taken it to the range once. I asked to see it and she didn't even know how to clear it properly to confirm it was safe. I asked her several questions about it and she got upset because she kept having to say "No" that she didn't know how to do something with HER firearm.
I took her to my land with the family for a "range day". I purposely put in a fake round to practice how to clear a jam. She had no idea what to do and started yelling about how it "broke already".
This is not someone I want to own a firearm.
To anyone who is going to purchase a Firearm, find what would work for you and purchase it after trying a few different options at a range that rents them. Then take however much you spent on that firearm and double it. That is the minimum you should spend on training before you rely on the firearm for your protection.
One thing I will say about the Firearm's Community is that they are always happy to "talk shop". If you have a concern or question, ask the professionals at the store or range. That is what they are there for.
BrickUnable8601@reddit
I’m assuming you’re in the USA, although I could be wrong. I think this details an issue with your firearms licensing system if there are people able to buy a gun who are incompetent with it.
The Canadian licensing system is flawed too but at least it teaches you how to operate your firearms and goes through all available gun actions in Canada. (At least the course I did)
TheSensiblePrepper@reddit
Yes, I am in the US. In most of the US, you can purchase a firearm without ever even holding one before. In places with "constitutional carry" you can conceal a pistol on your person without any training or requirements if you're 21+. That's the only requirement.
BrickUnable8601@reddit
That just seems wild to me you can do that so easily. Ide be all for carrying if I could but that just doesn’t seem like the best way to do it
monty845@reddit
I mean, as home defense guns go, an AR-15 is still a good choice for a person with minimal training. Maybe a PCC would be slightly better. People put way too much emphasis on over penetration, when most common options are going to have relatively similar over penetration issues.
Assuming someone who is competent to do so sets it up with a red dot, hitting things at typical home defense ranges is really not hard. Far less skill needed than shooting a pistol at the same range.
Look, training is very valuable. I'm not going to argue its not. 1 time at the range is really not great. But someone who is a quick learner and spends the time before and after that range trip to become knowledgeable could still have a basic proficiency in a couple hours at the range. (Again, red dot, rifle, short range)
But it sounds like she did not put the effort in to get to the bare minimum of learning safe operation of the gun.
redrae707@reddit
A shotgun is a better choice for someone in her situation. And less likely to go through the walls and kill your sleeping kid while you fire wildly because you have no expertise LOL. A good shotgun ratchet is a nice deterrent in your average home invasion situation too
Snoop-Dragon@reddit
Buckshot is more likely to go through walls than 556, and it will kick like a fucking mule which is not ideal for most people’s mother in laws. 556 has a tendency to nearly disintegrate when it hits something hard, even 9mm FMJ is more likely to over-penetrate
redrae707@reddit
Buckshot would negate the whole point of a shotgun for someone with less than ideal aim so that's a weird take. Get some birdshot it gets the job done.
If the kick is too hard for her get a 20 gauge, although I promise you most women are fully capable of shooting a 12
Snoop-Dragon@reddit
No it wouldn’t lol. Why would you use the least lethal ammo available for a shotgun? Nobody who knows anything about guns would recommend a shotgun with birdshot for home defense. And buckshot can overpenetrate a person too, just like 9mm FMJ can. 556 is the least likely of the 3 to do that. There aren’t as many shotguns available in 20 gauge, and while yes most can handle a 12 most would probably rather not. My mom wouldn’t even try a 12. Why choose something with more recoil, less than 1/3 the capacity of an AR, and less maneuverability if you’re going with a long gun and not use the most lethal ammo available for it? The biggest redeeming quality of a shotgun is buckshot almost always being a one shot stop, birdshot to center mass may not be and is borderline cruel and unusual.
SapperLeader@reddit
Who said buckshot? Rocksalt!
reddit-suks1@reddit
Found the fudd…typical lore 😂
TheSensiblePrepper@reddit
Unfortunately, she is the AVERAGE new firearm owner. That is what needs to be changed. The Firearms aren't the issue. The people using them are the issue.
hidude398@reddit
I’ve taken several new shooters and new gun owners shooting, I don’t think that this is the case whatsoever.
TheSensiblePrepper@reddit
Glad to hear you're having good experiences.
ashmegrace@reddit
Yes!!! Look I'm probably in the minority in this sub as I am a pretty liberal person... who owns a firearm. The average person who thinks that they will remain calm, cool, and collected during a time that they have to use a firearm for self defense is kidding themselves.
That's why having the RIGHT firearm for you is important. It's why training is important. It's why range time is important. Muscle memory only works if you continually practice and reinforce your training.
TheSensiblePrepper@reddit
You would be very surprised. I am more Libertarian than anything. You do you, I will do me, and as long as we aren't hurting anyone or anything, we can all just keep moving along.
shutterblink1@reddit
I had to laugh because I could be your mother in law. My son bought an AR 15 3 days before he died. I have 1000 rounds of ammo and absolutely no idea how to do anything with the gun. It's never been shot. My dad taught me to shoot a .22 when I was 5 and I know how to shoot a 9mm. You really brought up some excellent points and I now know I must learn how to use a rather large arsenal in my home. My husband is old and ill and I'll be the sole protector of our home. I'm also old, but not afraid to shoot if necessary. I need to make sure of the laws in my state.
TheSensiblePrepper@reddit
Absolutely do that. Do not be afraid to ask for a little help. Find yourself a range and tell them you are looking for a very basic class on it. Even if they don't have one coming up, they will let you know when they do. Even still, if you brought the firearm to the range and said you really need to be shown how to use it but have no one to do so, I guarantee someone will be happy to do that. It is all about safety and the goal is to get you enjoying it while being safe.
ArmadilloSudden1039@reddit
Our private club has a public lady's day every spring. Usually, about 50 women show up. Sadly, most won't join the club because of the old dudes that run the club, but the ones that are there for the lady's day are generally pretty good.
But, they do basic firearm safety, and get everyone to shoot something, even if it is just a daisy, before they leave.
TheSensiblePrepper@reddit
That's a great way of doing it.
Aggravating-Reason77@reddit (OP)
Thank you for the example & I’ve definitely witnessed similar situations where you have an individual who thinks that ownership of a defense weapon is the complete conclusion without any semblance of training.
I believe people need a careful mix of supplies and expertise to correctly evaluate and act accordingly, owning the firearm along with ammo isn’t half the battle, closer to 10%.
TheSensiblePrepper@reddit
If I am talking to a New Prepper, I am encouraging them to gather around a month's worth of Food, Water, medication and the ability to be comfortable without electricity for that month
After you have all that, THEN we can talk about Firearms.
capt-bob@reddit
Unless home invasions could be a "Tuesday event", some people here have never had a crime in their areas and it shows lol. My coworkers son had a group armed with bats pound in their door in the middle of the night claiming to be the police. Yup they got a 9mm real quick, then used it to stop car thieves soon after. The ultimate would be to get out of that area when you can afford it, but a handgun is a lot cheaper to start with while you save up to move. I've read of wealthier people that probably thought crimes never actually happen being murdered for valuables in natural and other disasters as well as normal times. I can't see why it would stop with lack of emergency services?
enolaholmes23@reddit
Yeah, guns aren't only for the apocalypse. People get attacked in regular life. Especially for women, when most attackers are gonna be bigger and stronger than you, it helps to have a way to level the playing field.
NonArtiste5409@reddit
Only if you actually have it on you at the time of the attack and can pull it and use it. Those last two items are the undoing of almost everyone who thinks a firearm is their safety. Because the reality is, with most attacks, you don't have the luxury of being able to pull a weapon. All you have is what's on your body and in your mind, and you'd better know how to handle that first or the weapon you think will be your safety will be used against you. I understand the prepper mindset here, but it cannot be underscored enough that understanding your own self and training yourself and others should be job one.
iCantliveOnCrumbsOfD@reddit
I just went through 2 hurricanes, Helene and Milton. We have just shy of 1mil people in Pinellas County with 3 long bridges east that are regularly fked in the am work commute to tampa. The skyway bridge is our route south and is often closed for "High winds" because it's so damn tall (look up videos if you haven't heard of it) and north we have us19 or 275 interstate which is also regularly blocked during heavy traffic times because of idiots.
Milton came through on Wednesday nigh. The power grid was mostly knocked out and it was a ghost town everywhere in the county on Thursday.
It's been 3 days and people are losing their minds over fuel. They're syphoning gas tanks and robbing people. It's not wide spread but.... it's been 3 days
Traditional_Neat_387@reddit
Yup I agree, (as much as I hate them) I think people should meet the fema guidelines for emergency supplies (2 weeks plus radio list they use to have) then we can start branching into what scenarios are most likely, once those are met then we can get into the more unlikely stuff.
Aggravating-Reason77@reddit (OP)
I definitely respect your opinion on the matter, though I firmly believe it’s more complicated than that, I feel as though training with a firearm over an extensive period of time is MUCH better than say training 2-3 weeks before SHTF.
That being said I may be biased as I live in rural Appalachia where a high percentage of people own and regularly use firearms for various purposes.
TheSensiblePrepper@reddit
I completely agree. Which is why it should be encouraged now and not later. If you're interested, start now but it isn't just a quick thing for most people.
I live in a State where 31% of the population over 21 has a Concealed Carry Permit and 49% of the population own at least one firearm. You're not alone.
enolaholmes23@reddit
I think that applies to every prep, too. If you stock food supplies you should practice cooking. If you stock medical supplies you should do first aid training. Same with guns, they need training too.
Rick-burp-Sanchez@reddit
This is my Mother-in-Law, there are many like it, but this one is mine.
Icy-Ad-7767@reddit
Not everyone should own fire arms, we all know the reasons, the most dangerous person with a gun is someone untrained and scared. They are tools made to kill things that is all they are meant to do. If you have a gun in hand you are considered a lethal threat, while I do not currently own any I will deal with a such a threat in an appropriate manner
ee-5e-ae-fb-f6-3c@reddit
You've got solid points. If you're going to rely on any piece of gear, you need to train with it. Firearms are no different, but ideally you'll train to the point where gun handling is automatic for you, so you can focus on the environment and tasks around you, while you're working your gun. It also applies to making safe gun handling automatic, so when you're tired, your body does the right things anyway.
You know your mom better than any of us, but it sounds like instead of setting the expectation that this was a learning experience, you sprung this on her without her knowledge. Most people just feel frustrated and tricked when someone does this.
If she's not going to learn how to use it, maybe it shouldn't be part of her contingency plan.
CSLoser96@reddit
In summation, everyone wants to talk about firearm ownership in the context of it being a constitutional or god-given right, and talk far less about it in the context of being a responsibility. It's American entitlement, and it's why the gun community has a bad wrap.
If you want to own a firearm, accept all the facets of responsibility that come with it. That is, knowledge of self defense law, basic training of how to handle it around people and how to manipulate it's functions, basic education of ethics, etc.
Owning a firearm is like owning a car. You are responsible for where it goes, how it is maintained, and who it affects.
do_IT_withme@reddit
All freedoms come with equal responsibility. Too many nowadays don't want responsibility or know what it even is.
TheSensiblePrepper@reddit
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
I completely agree.
redrae707@reddit
Yep, had a recent conversation with someone about what they would do in a self defense situation and they said they would hopefully have time to grab their gun I said, the gun that you literally don't even know how to load and have never shot? There's no shortage in my area of places to get training, and it's just flat out irresponsible and dangerous to own a gun without knowing what you're doing . It's also worse than useless in a self defense situation
black_cat_X2@reddit
I guess this is another great example that there are a lot of really stupid people out there. It is the most obvious thing in the world to me that I need to know how to actually use my firearm. Like, know it intimately and practice regularly. I don't see how anyone wouldn't feel the same way. What does she think she's going to do with it? Throw it at someone?
TheSensiblePrepper@reddit
She doesn't think. I am going to leave it at that out of respect. :-)
JennaSais@reddit
Reminds me of this exchange.
JennaSais@reddit
All of this. And I'll add "anyone who thinks of a gun as the first line of defense" to the list of people that probably shouldn't own them. If it's reached the point of pulling out a weapon, so many other things have failed, be it OpSec, community, security, other forms of deterrence, etc. Some people really think they're going to be out there shooting up anything that moves.
I suspect the overlap on the Venn diagram between that sort and the untrained is pretty wide, too.
Disaster_Plan@reddit
Just because somebody works at a gun store doesn't necessarily mean they know guns. Many gun stores don't pay well and hire people with basic firearms knowledge and minimal experience. I have expertise in one type of firearm and I once heard a gun store employee give bad advice to a clueless customer. I had to walk away.
TheBearded54@reddit
In my opinion, your mother-in-law not knowing these things is on you. Not really “your fault” but more your responsibility to fix that situation. You know better, you know how to fix these things, teach her. Not everybody is intuitive with firearms and need to be taught.
My best friend prior to dying was similar. I just kept taking him out and he got pretty good before the flu got him.
I take a look at part prepping as those that’ll be around me, he’d be there with me, so it was my responsibility to ensure he’d be safe, effective and deadly should SHTF.
TheSensiblePrepper@reddit
I can lead a horse to watch but I can't make it drink.
I am sorry for the loss of your friend.
TheBearded54@reddit
Oh you’re right, you can’t make them but I just make it clear “you won’t be around me with that until I’m confident you won’t kill me or yourself.”
I appreciate it. It happened Jan. 2023, but still sucks.
EmploymentSquare2253@reddit
I believe the opposite is the issue, everyone I know has plenty of guns and ammo. The issue is they are severely lacking on food supply.
Specialist-Impact345@reddit
Firearms are crucial to everyday living; more so during catastrophes (short or long term). We get glimpses of the societal downfall during recent events. Shirt of 24 hours in aftermath of Helene, costal Southern Georgia, a friend was trying to make it home - 268 miles. He stopped at the only working gas station (gene’ powered) he found on his route. He went inside, cash-only, line was long - female at the counter with gallon-jugs of water. She asked if she could pay for gas now… clerk said, is you car in line, female said no, but she was gonna dump the water and fill up the gallons jugs with gas. Upon hearing this, the rest of the patrons threaten to physically harm her if she did this (poured out the water) and per the description, no one was kidding. Immediately, my buddy grabbed his son and left.
In less than 24 hours, the world devolved… 48-72 hours, I bet the patrons wouldve actually harmed her (instead of verbalizing) - though doubtful, there would be any water left (besides the point) - non-like people will turn on one another quickly. My whole point is, in a total *-down” society, I believe, in less than 72 hours, people outside your community-neighborhood, will turn violent against one another.
Firearms are crucial and must be carried everyday.
IndividualistAW@reddit
This is Reddit bruh. If you don’t support full gun confiscation you’re a “gun nut”
That said, you are 100% spot on
Mountain-Status569@reddit
Nothing exists in a vacuum. You can just as easily say “your firearms are useless if you’re dead because you didn’t store enough water” or whatever else.
Most people in this sub seem to favor a balanced approach, so conversation that harps on one topic or one thing being “most important”, whether it’s weapons of something else, is less likely to get the feedback you’re looking for.
Slow_motion_riot@reddit
Another good option for home defense would be a mossberg maverick. Still about $250 today. Phenomenal home defense firearm, easy to become proficient, also good for hunting, and cheap/affective ammo.
SooSpoooky@reddit
I think its sort of a swing thing.
Sometimes u see nothing but shtf gun stuff.
Others times its never mentioned and then it swings back the other way.
The ones that almost never bring up guns in any way, already know they r needed, have purchased them, know how to use them, and then they think "of course you need them, y ask IF u need them"
That and some people get so invested in them that all their money goes that way and nothing else is ever bought.
Not asked for but my opinion is to buy a pump 12g, get birdshot, buckshot, and slugs. Then learn how to use it and how those 3 different rounds handle. Then go back to the other parts that your probably trying to work out.
AlfonzMephesto@reddit
Nah keep that mindset, less targets to worry about
Oodalay@reddit
There are a lot of peppers that are felons or from the UK and have sour grapes about firearm ownership. Its as important as learning situational awareness and filtering water.
ixlzlxi@reddit
I think it mostly depends on how much of your imagination of what a true SHTF situation comes from zombie movies. But also, it's about priorities. I don't have anything prepped that I won't have any use for if shit DOESNT hit the fan
minosi1@reddit
What is completely missed by most is that in any (semi-)lawless situation, anyone unarmed is seen as a "free-for-all" target by the low lifes. Be it for robbery (usual first step), rape&beating for fun (second step) and enslavement (final step, shall one survive).
In any SHTF situation, a respectable weapon is a deterrent/respect-acquisition tool first and foremost. For that it must also be obvious one can actually use it but that is about it.
Si vis pacem para bellum.
ixlzlxi@reddit
See, you're someone who I bet has watched a lot of zombie movies.
I think the problems we're going to face are much more likely to be a long slow degredation of food and material resources, rather than a complete fall into anarchy. Where you do see large amounts of robbery and etc, it is not going to be lone actors, it's going to be large gangs. Me with one gun has no hope of fighting off or intimidating a gang. I prep community and connection with my neighbors, not guns...so that we can form a booby trapped commune and fuckin wreck the gangs home alone style
thefedfox64@reddit
For starters, I agree that in certain countries firearms are a tool for prepping. I just want to get that out of the way
What I do want to say is, that I believe that in this sub, we should be separating maybe with like a tag - Doomsday or Tuesday mentality. There is a lot of talk about SHTF and the TEOTWAWKI , which is fine. But when you boil down the nitty gritty of actual prepping. Emergencies, and what people actually use. Firearms are not in people's top 10's, maybe in the top 20's. Just take a look at the Hurricane Helene/Milton subs and threads. Not many people are saying they are so glad they had their firearm. I'm not even reading a lot of looting going on in these areas/situations. This is what I think needs to be said - is it great to have? Yes. But is it in a real-world applicable sense of prepping, needed before, water, generators, gas, solar, crank radios, food, and cooking applications? No, and I'd be hard-pressed to find subs where a disaster like this occurred, and preppers were using, and brandishing their firearms.
Let me say this too - without promoting illegal activities or violence, most hotels, DO NOT allow you to bring in a firearm. I'm not saying everyone, and I'm not saying they strictly tell you about it as part of check-in. But MOST hotels have it when you sign for the room and pay, a list of prohibited items, and firearms are one of them. The two I do know allow them, they must be unloaded at all times. So even if you have a firearm, and you evacuate, you could be breaking the law by bringing your firearm into a hotel.
Finally - Preppers are not in the US. I think this often fails for a lot of people to comprehend. Many countries around the world simply DO NOT allow firearms legally, or in some cases they do but they are heavily regulated (Like for hunting purposes only). So creating a stance strictly for certain countries, and perhaps when we say "If your country/area allows" is a bit ridiculous. The idea that is "needs to be said" is more along the lines of a want - "Wants to be said" rather than a need. Because people prep in other countries without guns just fine.
I really wish that that we would discuss more real-world situations, rather than fantasy, and wanton "OMG what if the dead rose up" or "What if an asteroid hit in 55 minutes". Are people looking at what preppers did in these recent hurricanes and what lessons were learned and what equipment was useful? Maybe, but are we going to discuss going back to guns, and the need to defend yourself? I prep for Tuesday, and every Tuesday of my life so far, I've never needed to use a gun. When two tornados destroyed my home I didn't need a gun. When we had a bad winter storm that knocked out power for almost a week, I didn't need a gun. When riots were happening in my state, and some guy drove across state lines to defend some property, I didn't need a gun. I pray I never need to use it, I pray my family never needs to use it, I pray no one every needs to use it. I have it, but when I talk about prep, I'm not mentioning how having a firearm gives me peace of mind. Because never did, and it was never useful. What gave me and my family peace of mind - was money in the bank, cash in our wallets, Walmart open at 1:00 am, being able to have a generator, a solar power station - backup battery on our sump pump. Food in our fridge, freezer and deep freeze, water stored. A firearm has never given me peace of mind in any emergency, nor as it been one of the things I brought when disaster hit or glad I had it with me when I'm leaving my destroyed home.
Snoop-Dragon@reddit
Well said, however I would counter that “prepping for Tuesday” includes being prepared for someone to break into your house on a Tuesday. We prepare for disasters that we pray never happen, and many of them are unlikely to happen, but they could happen at any time. I think to be a well rounded prepper you should be prepared for the “disaster” of needing to defend yourself too, and I think this is what OP is getting at. But I also think as some others have said it’s our obligation to train for that scenario too, as having a tool but no idea how to use it won’t help you in an emergency. This is also why I believe fitness is a “prep,” and would say it often gets overlooked or dismissed in the same way that firearms do in this sub, at least that I’ve seen. Prepping to me means a lot more than having a comfortable stash of supplies. It includes being as healthy as possible, fit as reasonably possible, and capable of defending myself as reasonably possible.
thefedfox64@reddit
Thanks for the reply. I want to ask - because I think it gives an idea of self-defense vs. intentional protection of property. Do you believe self-defense is an immediate protection of self, or do you believe in castle laws?
Personally, I believe in immediate self-defense. I know we talk doomsday, but on a random Tuesday - I never believe the death penalty is justified for a raccoon going through your trash cans. I'm a firm believer that the line between stealing a loaf of bread to survive and stealing cause you want too, is too thin for most people to confidently allow those justifications. Is the hungry mother of 2 stealing a loaf of bread (posing no danger) from a shop deserving death? Is the guy stealing paint cans from a garage deserving of death? Looking for trouble is what I believe. Protecting your family, 100%. The idea that thieves should be killed for stealing is too medieval for my taste, and I recon if the alternative was people on a jury given that power, a lot of people wouldn't allow the state to kill someone for stealing, but somehow are ok with a business owner shooting a kid for stealing a pack of beer.
minosi1@reddit
In a real life it does not matter what one believes. It does matter is what the burglar gang believes.
No oportunistic thief, even of the lowest esteem, will choose a place where there is a risk of bullets flying when there are better options are around. Which in a "prep for Tue" there are guaranteed to be. That is why you often see people on their porches with shotguns in such situations, or cleaning up with visible carry.
Yes, it is making yourself an easier target. But that holds only if you were a target already.
In all other cases it raises the risk cost for any attacker calculus. So unless you are sitting this way in front of a $M mansion, no opportunistic theif/gang will bother you. Not worth it for them. Simple as that.
In a real SHTF, a gun can be a liability. But one can *choose* if to expose its carry or not. Without at least a handgun, you are "the meat". Basically. Think of being in a middle ages peasant position to the land owners.
thefedfox64@reddit
I think the ideology behind "SHTF" and the mentality of it, is more of a hinderence. That's not what I'm here to discuss, in every disaster I've been in, my gun has never been useful, and its never given me peace of mind to have. People here have commented about Helene and Milton, just by virtue of owning a gun didn't help them at all. I think that's something that is remiss when discussing prepping.
Myself, when someone says "But I can't move out of X dangerous location" its the same vein as "You need a gun" - its not on people's top 10 lists. And even if it is, for whatever reason - is it something you've used? Ever? Most likely not, in fact most likely most people wouldn't. How can something be Top 10 if you never use, never need it, and have a whole litany of other items you use more frequently and are glad you stockpiled. Its part of the mentality surrounding the idea of firearms. "But you may need it, better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it" - which can be true for like..... 99% of all prepping. Better to have a lifestraw, or water filtration, better to have solar, wind, propane the list is exhaustive. And I think always bringing it back to SHTF or TEOTWAWKI is a bit misleading in its use and necessity. That's really my point - there is a whole lotta end of the world talk. Going back to 2010 - its been 14 years and the world has ended yet. More realistic prep, more realistic stances - especially in relation to the world.
As for peasants in middle ages, I wouldn't be worried about that at all. I'd be worried that your job is tied to your health insurance, you livelihood is on the whim of some investors/stock holders or if someone is in a bad mood (at will employment). Maybe FMLA disappears and your spouse needs assistance, or a parent. If you want to discuss middle ages and the use of weapons - just know like today - Money is the most important thing. It creates a divide and danger way higher than not having a firearm.
Snoop-Dragon@reddit
I do believe in castle laws in that if someone is breaking into your house you should be able to shoot first and ask questions later, because you don’t know their intent. I certainly don’t believe someone deserves to be killed for stealing, unless they threaten someone’s life to do it, in which case I believe the victim is justified in using deadly force to defend themselves from someone threatening their life. Shooting someone who’s unarmed and stealing something out of your garage will likely get you a murder charge in any state. I believe you can legally threaten them to try to get them to stop, you could probably legally beat their ass if you were capable and felt so inclined, but killing someone when you can see that they’re only there to steal something won’t go over well in court even with castle doctrine. Along with being trained and responsible with your firearms comes being responsible in your decisions of when to use it.
thefedfox64@reddit
Gotcha, thanks for sharing.
JimmyFree@reddit
"most hotels, DO NOT allow you to bring in a firearm."
That's policy, not law. They can trespass you if you are violating their policy, but you are not breaking the law by having a firearm on property. You are breaking policy, and subject to expulsion and thats it. (at least in the US).
thefedfox64@reddit
You are breaking the law, and can be arrested for it. I suggest you review your state statues and laws. For example my state - Wis. Stat. § 941.237(2) - Carrying a handgun where alcohol is served or indicated handguns are not allowed on the property. Its a class A misdemeanor. Illinois, Michigan and Minnesota also have laws stating that willfully bringing a handgun into a establishment where alcohol is served (hotel bars) or establishments where guns are not allowed on premise is a misdemeanor and in fact against the law.
JimmyFree@reddit
The statute you linked applies to bars places where alcohol is served, not posted no handguns. This is common across all of the states.
thefedfox64@reddit
Most hotels have bars - and you do have to respect signage - its in one of the additional statues
JimmyFree@reddit
Again, this is not what you linked, and it applies to the areas where alcohol is served, not the whole premise. But I don't really care, I'm in WA state and I know where or where I cannot take my firearm.
ArmadilloSudden1039@reddit
As soon as you sign that one night lease, that is your domicile, and they can't prohibit you. I can't quote the case, but it was against section 8 housing, and hotels kinda got kicked in with it.
thefedfox64@reddit
I quoted from my state legislative that a lot of people were arrested for bringing guns into hotels in Kenosha during the riots. It's against the law in my state and several surrounding states. I appreciate your reply, but without like, something more than that, it's a bit difficult to trust. Does your state have laws that restrict guns in hotels? I'd be hard pressed to believe judges confused temporary living areas (especially in a disaster situation, like a church or school) with renting a home for months or years. In our state, you can keep them in your vehicle in their parking lot, but just not inside the building.
AnyKitchen5129@reddit
I live in an area devastated by Helene. I’ve used and half exhausted most of my preps in the last couple weeks. My sidearm and rifle have been of absolutely zero use so far. 🤷♂️
Aggravating-Reason77@reddit (OP)
You make a lot of good points, hell I even agree with most; however I would like to state while I do live in a country that allows me to own firearms this was more a thinking piece on actual and technical use.
I’d have to scavenge for the link but for example, when hurricane Milton rolled through Florida many people were stuck without gas and in another subreddit I heard a story of how a mother was forced out of her car by two men so they could siphon her gas.
There’s plenty more I could give examples for, but I don’t feel as this is the time or the place for it. A firearm is a useful tool for various situations, if you find yourself needing but not having said tool things can become exponentially worse.
Though I am biased on this issue as I am both an American AND a firearm owner, like you I pray neither I nor my family has to use their firearm. The ownership of aforementioned tool is a general preparation for self/familial defense.
JimmyFree@reddit
Being stuck without gas for a few days is a first world problem. It's not an emergency. FL has plenty of gas, they just need to wait for the roads to clear. I really doubt someone was carjacked to take gas, this isn't mad max. Car jacked to take the car, maybe. But car jacked to take the gas is silly.
thefedfox64@reddit
Thanks for the response. And totally agree, better to have than not. My post is more about - when your 89 years old, and you look back. The stuff that your grateful for, I hope it is not owning a gun or using it. I hope its all the times you helped, survived, lived and thrived, spent time with your family and loved ones.
Personally, I think we promote it WAY too much. Even in a prepping sense, its just promoted way to much compared to its actual use. To me, its like recommending people have flares. Firearms are a tool for killing - prepping to kill someone else just feels wrong in my mind. It was designed from the ground up, to kill people, going back to the first ones, it was a tool for war to kill enemy soldiers. I honestly think a hammer is most useful in 90% of real life prepping situations than a gun. I'd be hard pressed to fine people who have lived through natural and man-made disasters who got use out of a gun over other things.
Aggravating-Reason77@reddit (OP)
You’re absolutely not wrong, firearms are the great equalizer used to take and save lives. In no way would I advocate a firearm over say a month of food, yet when the time may arise it could be too late, it’s better to have and not need. Imagine it as type of insurance.
The truth is in many situations hell probably MOST you would be able to make due without one but as someone else pointed out earlier, atleast in the US you’ll find yourself at a steep disadvantage if you’re the odd man out.
Aggravating-Reason77@reddit (OP)
But thank you for your response! Definitely helped to hear from another perspective.
colonelflounders@reddit
As someone who just went through Helene this comment of yours is very spot on. A few days in, one of our neighbors loaded up a grill on their truck and their thawing meat to feed some people who hadn't eaten since the storm hit. Those hungry people weren't beating down our doors, and someone was more than happy to take care of them. I've only heard of one case of looting and that was at a gas station.
I have guns, I believe people should be able to defend themselves and others, but I really wished I filled the bath tub with water so we could flush toilets more frequently. Bullets are nice, but water to drink and soup to eat are nicer. And sharing these things with those who need them when you can is even better.
bhuffmansr@reddit
I may be mistaken, I am a boomer. But I think more and more the younger folks just do not conceive of the predatorial beasts that will be out there during that time. And if you have no concept of them, you have no concept of how to deal with them.
hockeymammal@reddit
Along the same lines, I can’t quantify the times I’ve seen preppers out of shape. Thats your most basic preparedness
Aggravating-Reason77@reddit (OP)
A little off topic, but a while back I was talking to this heavier set fellow on a Facebook prepper page talking about how he was supposed to bug out with 80 pounds on his back.
Guy was 45 years old 5 foot 8 at about 320 pounds, tried to explain this very issue with him but he didn’t get it. I guess some people just won’t believe it until it’s too late
KiltedRambler@reddit
When I was 40 I packed out on the road with around 100 pounds of gear (lots of comfort items).
It was easy. Why? I pulled a cart with everything in it behind me, but clothes, electronics, important paperwork and a few small miscellaneous items. I dragged that cart over mountains and everything (Appalachian Trail). It was crazy, but crazy fun too. In hindsight.
Lived on the road for 2 years. In style. Solar panel, phone, tablet, movies, music.
That was more than a decade ago. I'm housed now, have a good job, but I still have that cart at the ready.
My point? You don't have to put everything on your back.
hockeymammal@reddit
I’m upper 20’s, can run a 40 minute 5 mile and deadlift 400lbs, and would probably struggle really hard with an 80lb pack lmao
I see this in medicine, my career. People just don’t understand what physical fitness is, and how harmful obesity is to the human body
Aggravating-Reason77@reddit (OP)
I think it’s just overestimating ones ability, just like how some would expect to pick up the brand new gun they bought and go out in the woods like Rambo overnight.
I’m mid 20s at 200 pounds, my gym regiment is mostly powerlifting with a strong cardio regiment, sadly I think we’re in the minority. I don’t think many people actually care about personal fitness when it comes to prep which is a huge shame.
Fr33speechisdeAd@reddit
I agree. There are 2 groups of people who are a threat to you and your family. 1. Preppers who don't bother storing food, medicine and supplies. They just train guns and tactics with a goal of robbing you and your family. 2. Unprepared, willfully oblivious average people who refuse to take responsibility for their own well being.
Both are dangerous and nothing short of firearms will stop either one. The average person will become violent and desperate when they and their family start going hungry, and will justify any behavior in their own mind. Predatory preppers give us all a bad name, and unfortunately, the msm usually interview those guys first. Luckily there are more of us than them, and they usually only have a few people in their group. Community is key to defeating predatory groups, but it has to be a community of people trained well with their own weapons. That's my 2 cents FWIW.
LucasHellaaShreddy@reddit
I think non gun owners correlate guns with violence which in prepping may be true however theres more uses to weaponry than just killing ppl. Hunting, as well as just having rounds to break open for fire ect is a necessity for everyone to know. Wildly enough my grandfather grew up in 1930s Wyoming. He said in school it was part of the curriculum to learn to shoot rifles, clean them, as well as learn to hunt. Everyone knew how to provide for their families by the age of 16 some even younger. I wish they brought that back. My grandma said they used to have mandatory sewing, cooking, and cleaning classes for any young women as well. I think everyone should learn the absolute basics in school. I wish they still did that.
FindingPerfect9592@reddit
If you don’t know how to properly use a firearm, you may as well have a bat. Can’t clear a jam, you’re dead, don’t know about the safety, you’re dead, don’t know how to chamber a round (I keep one always in the chamber), you are dead. Not having a gun, You could very well be dead. Buy one, learn how to properly and safely use it and carry it. Get a ccp, go to the range, get some training and pray you never have to use it. Having one shouldn’t be a question.
yogapastor@reddit
A friend tried to give me a gun recently. I shared I was concerned bc of the stats of women being killed with their own guns. They clarified that it’s often because women hesitate to fire, and are then overpowered.
Having a gun is not a good defense. Firing a gun is good defense. So even if you know how to clean & care for a gun, and got an A+ in gun safety, if you’re not willing to discharge it, do not own it.
I turned my friend down, bc I knew I wouldn’t be willing. I do have a good bat though. And a scary dog.
woppawoppawoppa@reddit
Frankly, my 2 dogs have kept more people off my property than a gun has.
FindingPerfect9592@reddit
I’m willing. But it’s better to know what you would or wouldn’t do. Dogs are always a good choice. Swing away!!
Aggravating-Reason77@reddit (OP)
Perfectly put.
FindingPerfect9592@reddit
Thank you
Maxgallow@reddit
THIS. Yes. Reiterate PROPER TRAINING. Not a fan of someone who doesn't have trigger discipline, situational awareness, or target acquisition skills running around with a firearm. That said, everyone who can, should have a firearm that they have trained with and can responsibly maintain.
Heck_Spawn@reddit
It comes down to the old saying in prepping.
Better to have it and not need it than needing it and not having it.
agm115@reddit
As an alternative explanation for why these discussions might not appear here, just check out any gun-related subreddits where this question will generate more opinions regarding WHICH gun for SHTF/self-defense you should or shouldn’t have than you knew existed.
Essentially, that discussion will quickly devolve into finer details which other forums will probably be better equipped/suited to handle.
OnTheEdgeOfFreedom@reddit
I started to answer this, and then remembered that the last two times I posted stats on gun ownership and incidents, it was taken down as political. So I won't bother. If you want a discussion on legitimate pros and cons, I'll allow one post on it in my own sub (can't like to it, sorry, that gets taken down.), which has an audience with more nuanced views. Please limit .the post to something like "pros and cons of gun ownership" as that gives it a neutral footing.
BalzMartigan@reddit
Learn to use melee weapons. A firearm is only good if you have ammunition.
mac_duke@reddit
Preppers say this because they have a gun and don’t want others to have guns so they can take their stuff easily when SHTF.
Flat_Boysenberry1669@reddit
The issue with the prepper community is there's a lot of people in it who can't really prep because of their nations laws and that scares them so they pretend like being able to own a gun being able to bug out being able to store massive amounts of preps isn't necessary lol..
I had a debate in one of the subs with a European who claimed he didn't need a gun because most Europeans don't own guns and they won't be around in a shtf situation.
When I explained Europe has lots of guns they're just not accessible to him now and will mostly be in the hands of people who stole them from the police/military he claimed both would still exist in a shtf and keep them protected lol.
Round_Friendship_958@reddit
Well Reddit is full of people who aren’t reallly 2nd amendment supporters. Not this site but most of Reddit. ( I said not this site but most of Reddit) is liberal and don’t really approve of the gun owning lifestyle.
YourHighness1087@reddit
For me, a firearm, is a tool. A means for defense, offense and a tool that helps me acquire some of the other things I am in need of. Simple.
AgitatedSoup3348@reddit
Completely agree. Weapons are a necessity.
KlienIngHome2897@reddit
I would always have AR-15 chamber in 223/556 as a must have for shit hits the fan. Side arm 9mm, 22 long rifle, shotgun, tactical knife. It’s ridiculous to not have a firearm as your first choice if shit hits the fan or in a pepper situation. A lawless timeframe can bring the unfortunate consequences of violence to you and the people around you.
atcclears@reddit
I concur with the OP.
On the use of deadly force, the lawyer William Kirk in the greater Seattle area is producing good, free content on YouTube. From one of his videos:
Washington Gun Law President, William Kirk, discusses the three things you must subconsciously know whenever considering using force to defend yourself or others. These three words will help you analyze and make lawful decisions when the collective sh&* is hitting the fan. Arm yourself with knowledge in just 2 minutes today.
The force we use in a self-defense scenario has to be:
Most of William Kirk’s clients get in trouble because they exceed the proportional use of force.
shaunavon@reddit
I got into reloading my own ammo and reloading got me into prepping. If I could do reloading for myself, what else could I prepare to do for myself… the list kept growing
FloorHairy5733@reddit
In the event of a disaster or something similar, there will only be two classes of people. The haves and the haves not. And if you are foolish enough to think that many of the have nots wouldn't do anything to acquire some of your prep.......well then you deserve the outcome of that. You can only own what you can defend.
Mysfunction@reddit
I just a conversation about this with my partner.
I don’t own a gun or have my gun license, but I do have some experience with rifles and shotguns. I’m not at the point that I feel the need to get a gun as there is a lot of other stuff that takes higher priority in terms of time and money investments, however, knowing that I already have the basic skills to use one means that it won’t be a big deal when I decide to get one.
My partner has mentioned wanting to get his gun license and learn how to use a gun, not too seriously, just a general interest for the reasons you mention, but he has minimal outdoors skills (I’m not confident he could get a solid fire going even with matches), and I feel like focusing on learning how to use a gun before learning basic survival skills is putting the cart before the horse.
I’m pretty outdoorsy and can rig up a pretty good 3.5 season base camp. I’d like to learn how to set up a vented wood stove inside a tent, but for now I’m focusing on increasing my edible and medical plant knowledge. I’ve suggested that my partner take some time to learn some knots and knife sharpening skills, neither of which I am great with. The development of those wouldn’t be a huge investment if time or money and they would be valuable to add to our combined skill set (plus he could teach me the skills after he has mastered them).
I told him that, while I obviously have no authority to give or withhold permission to get a gun license and gun, I would be much more supportive of the idea if he took the time and initiative to learn some more basic and commonly useful skills first.
Basically I’m of the opinion that gun and the skills to use it are valuable tools in a prepper’s kit, but there are a whole lot of things that should come first.
My partner did agree that it made sense and I’m hoping he follows through. We’re both pretty nerdy academics, so It will probably be pretty funny to see him sitting on the couch sharpening knives instead of reading a book.
Aggravating-Reason77@reddit (OP)
That’s a great argument to bring to light, I doubt you’re looking for advice on the issue but I’d like to share a few words to throw around between the two of you.
It doesn’t seem as if your partner has the same natural love for the outdoors as you do, much less your skill set. It sounds like he wants a gun to A) either have a gun just cause or B) to maybe feel more masculine with a modern weapon? I’m no expert definitely not a doctor, though I would argue if you have no aspirations to become proficient with a weapon you are actually more of a liability.
I can’t speak to the nature of where to start in a prepper mindset, though firearm communities actually have a pretty direct link to preppers. Some may find it better to start with the outdoors skills tracking/basic bushcraft maybe foraging and learning about local plants. It’s all completely up to yall on how or when you would like to go about this, thankfully there’s so much information on firearms on the internet to find a caliber you think would best suit your situation.
Remember guns are a great resource for anyone, not just those who have a prepper mindset. That being said proper handling & general training knowledge is an absolute must regardless of the reason for buying one.
Mysfunction@reddit
Your perspective might be helpful for someone else, but you’ve definitely read a lot into my comment that isn’t there, and your conclusion on why he would possibly want a gun displays some immaturity about gun ownership.
He wants a gun specifically for what most would consider prepping purpose, and he grew up in downtown Toronto and was focused on academics and obtaining his PhD until he met me - his lack of outdoor skills is related to a lack of opportunity and need. He is very politically minded and spends a lot of time learning about the history of global politics and revolutionary movements. His focus with regard to prepping for SHTF is in building strong community.
And, to be honest, I think your emphasis on guns being a great resource for anyone is misguided and demonstrates the problem with the American pro gun mentality. Not everyone needs a gun and guns are rarely resources. In terms of prepping, I agree with you that they are an important part of a full prep plan, but they are definitely not even close to being as valuable a resource than basic survival, medical, or technical skills.
ahiddenpolo@reddit
I feel like prepping sometimes is often reduced ti ONLY firearms training. Obviously like knowing how to prepare food, or decontaminate water it’s an important aspect of prepping. But I see way more “mah guns” than I see the rejection of firearms basics.
Fit_Acanthisitta_475@reddit
I always tell people do whatever you wants. One day when you really need firearms, it’s going to be too late. In reality if you never shoot a firearms, I don’t expect you pick up one and hit anything. It’s like anything you need practice.
PaleInvestment3507@reddit
I would rather have a gun and not need it, than need a gun and not have it. In the same way owning a guitar doesn’t make you a musician, owning a gun doesn’t mean you are capable of defending yourself with it. Merely owning a gun is not enough. You must train and handle your firearm until you are a proficient shooter.
oldgar9@reddit
No matter how many guns you have or how good a fighter eventually you will meet those with more guns and stronger. As soon as it's known you have something others don't some of them will have no compunction about how they get it for themselves .
Farmstrong12358@reddit
Firearms are absolutely necessary for defense. For hunting, I would suggest crossbows because they are silent. You’ve been in the woods and hear a gunshot ring out a few miles away. In a SHTF scenario, you don’t want to alert your presence to everyone within a few miles of you. They could follow the sound of your shot, kill you and take your deer, or watch you and follow you back to camp where they kill your whole family.
taxicabkanefessions9@reddit
Suppressors are great for this purpose. They may still hear the sound but will have no idea where it came from.
wstdtmflms@reddit
I don't think anybody's dismissive of them. I just think that in the community, there are a lot of people who talk about nothing but guns as though they are the magic bullet to every problem, confrontation or situation one might encounter in a post-apocalyptic world. (Excuse the pun; none intended). Here's the truth about firearms: the best firearm is the one to which you have easy access and a supply of ammunition. Past that, there's not much more to be said because in a SHTW scenario, you take what you can find. The AR/AK debate doesn't make a difference. The .40/9mm debate doesn't make a difference. Get a sidearm, a rifle and a shotgun you're comfortable using and move on to other things.
It's hard to carry 10,000 rounds of assorted ammo in your bug out bag. It's hard to pull a trigger when you're dead from dysentery because you didn't know how to clean and sterilize water. It's hard to aim when you are weak from starvation because you didn't know how to garden and preserve your food.
This is not to minimize the need for security awareness. But a lot of folks think prepping is only about guns and ammo, when it's really about skills, tools, and your ability and confidence to use them.
Orbital_Vagabond@reddit
Prepping doesn't start with gun ownership, nor does it end with gun ownership, but firearms and training absolutely have a place in many if not most prep plans.
efnord@reddit
Here's my personal cost-benefit analysis:
No training can entirely prevent misuse or theft: ten percent of cops who get shot and killed are shot with their own guns. https://hub.jhu.edu/magazine/2013/fall/guns-kill-cops-statistics/ Other weapons can still be effective in many/most situations vs. a handgun, while having reduced risks in case of misuse/theft.
Gun ought to be on your person or stored safely, so you've got to deal with carting it around all the time, obeying the laws about where you should or shouldn't carry it. And that's not counting range time and costs.
Aggravating-Reason77@reddit (OP)
Absolutely! Don’t get me a wrong, I’m a strong proponent for firearm carry.
I’m a concealed carrying civilian myself, just it’s hard to stress just how important correct storage and handling is - along with range time.
efnord@reddit
It's always nice to hear that attitude! Some gun owners seem downright giddy when their firearms of choice lack manual external safeties.
ee-5e-ae-fb-f6-3c@reddit
I don't know about giddy, but I prefer my handguns don't have external safeties. Whether you rely on external safeties or not changes how you train. The Four Rules plus a good set of holsters with retention are all you need. Rifles and shotguns are different, since they're unholstered when out of hand.
efnord@reddit
A gun with a manual external safety is going to pose a lower risk of negligent discharge. I hear your argument that you don't desire to train thoroughly enough to check that safety in a crisis, but honestly this feels like a pretty cavalier attitude to me. Odds are you'll never use the gun for self-defense, but negligent discharge is a risk every time it's handled.
ee-5e-ae-fb-f6-3c@reddit
Training without an external safety would be the same. Establish a master grip, draw from the holster, and your trigger finger remains indexed on the frame until your sights are on the target (or you're shooting from retention). An external safety doesn't help here. It does add an extra step. The only time an external safety is useful is when a gun is out of hand, and unholstered. There are very few times your gun should ever be out of hand, and unholstered, and those circumstances should be controlled.
The FBI issues the Glock 23 as a sidearm. Do you think it points to the FBI's inability or unwillingness to train their agents? What about the numerous other agencies which also issue Glocks, or other sidearms without a manual safety? What do you think about SA/DA revolvers?
There are different and valid training philosophies. If you believe that a manual safety makes you safer, you should evaluate if that stems from a deficiency in your philosophy or training methods which creates higher risk scenarios that you have to mitigate with a safety.
I'll be more direct, there are a lot of people who carry far more weight than you who train with guns without manual safeties. I'm inclined to value their opinions over yours.
It doesn't really matter if you choose guns with or without safeties. What matters is how you train with them, and whether you choose to rely on features instead of building the correct muscle memory.
efnord@reddit
That's a whole lot of argument from authority. It still feels like a dangerous fad.
Answering your questions in order:
FBI doesn't shoot that much: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/shootings-federal-agencies-fbi-dea-atf-us-marshals-5-years-rcna126357
In general this is a policy that prioritizes recruitment and retention over public safety? Attitudes like yours are popular among gun enthusiasts, who are more likely to choose jobs with service weapons.
Archaic.
ee-5e-ae-fb-f6-3c@reddit
I'm sorry, but your personal discomfort isn't a good argument against the validity of training with or without safeties. I'll write the FBI, and let them know /u/efnord thinks their sidearm choices and training methods are foolhardy and dangerous. 🫡
efnord@reddit
Your personal comfort isn't a good argument for that practice. And you haven't refuted my underlying contention: "A gun with a manual external safety is going to pose a lower risk of negligent discharge." If you've got a good argument against that statement, I'd genuinely like to hear it.
Aggravating-Reason77@reddit (OP)
I agree, an external safety is the right move, when you’re out in the shit with a handgun anything can happen.
LeavingSoonBye209@reddit
"ten percent of cops who get shot and killed are shot with their own guns."
I would assume that speaks more toward the fact that pizza delivery guys get held at gunpoint more often than police, and police very often have to get down and wrestle people on the ground which give those same people ample opportunity to pull any number of things off the policeman's belt, than it does the idea that owning a gun makes it meaningfully more likely for another otherwise-unarmed person to use your gun against you.
efnord@reddit
Why would you assume that? If you don't have a gun, there's a 0% chance someone will shoot you with your non-existent gun. And that 10% figure is for people with backup who are paid to train with their guns; I don't see any reason to assume that number would go down for a lone amateur.
LeavingSoonBye209@reddit
"If you don't have a gun, there's a 0% chance someone will shoot you with your non-existent gun"
Well by default if I don't have a gun, nobody can take my gun away, so technically there would objectively be less risk of that, sure, but in practice people aren't taking your privately owned gun and killing you with it. It's a tremendously rare thing, and I would think would normally mean they intended to kill you regardless of having taken your gun.
"that 10% figure is for people with backup who are paid to train with their guns; I don't see any reason to assume that number would go down for a lone amateur."
That 10% figure is for people who semi-regularly wrestle desperate people down to the ground, people who are in fight-or-flight mode and probably have a lot of reason why they don't want to be apprehended. I don't plan on wrestling a home invader down to the ground, and if for some reason I did, my pistol isn't going to be on my person, accessible to the home invader while I did it. If we're trying to quantify 'groups who are most likely to get their gun taken and then used against them', policemen are waaaaaaay up that list, surely.
Considering that I would say there's no reason to assume the number wouldn't go down.
efnord@reddit
I guess I figure this situation differently than you. Start to point your gun at someone, they're now in fight-or-flight too. If they're less than 20 feet away and they quite rationally decide their odds are better if they tackle you... you better not miss.
LeavingSoonBye209@reddit
I don't know if I quite understand. You're saying that if I'm pointing my gun at someone who is less than 20 feet away, they're going to tackle me before my finger can twitch to pull the trigger, take my gun away, and then kill me with it? That's a ... reasonable expectation for that situation? As to your mention of their decision to attempt bull charging a guy with a gun instead of just running away being quite rationale, I'm not sure that's quite correct.
efnord@reddit
I mean if you get the drop on them and you point the gun before they can react, sure? But that's not a situation you're guaranteed to be in.
If you run away from someone with a gun, it's pretty easy for them to shoot you. In a Castle Doctrine state or a SHTF situation, I'd expect that.
monty845@reddit
I think the percentages here don't tell the full story. There are 700k cops in the US, 147 were killed in 2023, but only 44 of those were shooting deaths. If we assume the 10 percent figure is accurate, that means 4-5 of those deaths were with their own gun.
The death rate for auto accidents is 12.8 per 100k people per year. Vs less than 1 cop getting shot with their own gun per 100k cops per year.
efnord@reddit
That 10% figure is 10 years old, so it reflects police training and practices at that point in time. Roughly 3 out of 4 cops never fire their guns in the line of duty, so I'm not surprised their absolute numbers for annual gun deaths are low. https://www.reddit.com/r/police/comments/12v0u1f/27_of_us_police_officers_have_fired_their_weapon/
LazyandRich@reddit
I’m a total gun nut and ammo shortages are what got me into prepping in the first place. I love everything gun, and couldn’t imagine not wanting to have one regardless on your stance on them when the topic of preparedness comes up.
Lijaad@reddit
Even as somebody who is highly critical of our country's current interpretation of the second amendment, I couldn't agree with this more. Well said
Outlawemcee@reddit
I don't see what you are saying. Every prepping site or channel I've watched all preach gun ownership. There are even tons of "gun preppers" out there who's only preps are literally guns. If anything firearm ownership is over-represented in the prepping community in the US. I've seen people who will go out and buy an ar for 1500 and have no food preps. I've seen more actual preparedness from those who don't even own a gun, they make up for it in every other prep. Alot of people think they are safe in shtf simply by owning a gun, and they couldn't be more wrong.
Aggravating-Reason77@reddit (OP)
You’re absolutely correct, as I stated ownership of a firearm is just one of the many tools in a preppers belt. Though its importance shouldn’t be understated.
Firearms are very easily integrated in our society because of the versatility and wide range of applications, though as I’ve mentioned I believe knowledge and training on your weapon of choice is just as - if not more important than the weapon itself.
Yojimbo115@reddit
Water filtration, food supply, means to protect both.
In that order, for my tastes. Can't shoot shit if you're to weak from dehydration to pull the trigger.
catalyst686@reddit
It’s not even questionable, you need a way to defend yourself in this day and age, wether you’re “against” guns or not. If you’re prepared just as well as your neighbor who has a gun and you don’t, your neighbor is more prepared.
reddit-suks1@reddit
All those plebs against it are so delusional!
Anti govt to rely on them for help, which is why they prep. Yet are so anti 2A when it comes to relying on their own self defense in any situation. Clowns
JimmyFree@reddit
If you dont have a way to protect your base of operations, which can take many forms, then the prep you are doing is for those that can take it. Simple as that.
Ready-Bass-1116@reddit
Food, water, warmth, basic survival is all determined on how much ammo you have...no matter your geography, availability, or level of preparedness...your amount of ammo will always be your length of time in survival...whether you need to hunt, defend, or steal, it's how much ammo...
inquisitivexplorer8@reddit
I’m both a gun nut and a 2a political proponent. You don’t need to qualify that dude!
QuantumAttic@reddit
Oooof you guys are typing a lot of words. Firearms are discussed here all the time.
iwannaddr2afi@reddit
And this particular group may be the one where it's least fervently discussed. It's still discussed plenty lol if you don't like who got the last word on Reddit though, wait a minute. Universal advice tbh
ChuckTheWebster@reddit
I mean… when I think of prepping, I think of guns, antibiotics (and other medications), shelf stable food, and clean water.
I’m new around here though. I figure if I become a prepper, I should prep for the apocalypse, although… ironically, I’m likely dead if that happens now that I need special medications to keep cancer from returning (and also have a thyroid condition).
Aggravating-Reason77@reddit (OP)
I think what redsox here means is that there are potentially useful remedy’s for serious health conditions that could be more readily available if SHTF.
ee-5e-ae-fb-f6-3c@reddit
I think redsox got sucked into the same bullshit that got my mom a late diagnosis, and has killed countless others. If natural meds cured cancer, we'd have a lot more people beating cancer, but we don't because it's fucking bullshit.
redsox3061@reddit
Research natural meds for cancer. There are many cures.
ItsJustCoop@reddit
For what my opinion is worth, any prepper that's serious about this owns and knows how to use a black powder musket. If SHTF, you would know how to source your own sulfur, saltpeter, and high quality charcoal and make your own powder. Black powder and lead ingots can be stored easily, and in large quantities, if you want to plan ahead. Lead is easily salvaged in a collapse scenario, or you can buy and store the bullet moulds in a drawer now for when you need it in the future. If you're not already hunting during musket season, you should learn how to now.
KrinkyDink2@reddit
Do you anticipate burning through 10,000 rounds of conventional ammo, used conservatively in your lifetime? Or even your children’s lifetime?
Conventional ammo can be stored just as easily and outperforms muzzle loaders in every way. You can also reload conventional ammo.
Aggravating-Reason77@reddit (OP)
Guy I work with he’s a welder, everyone calls him black powder, found out him and his father have a massive smithing shop in their basement. I hit the jackpot as far as that goes, he’s in my inter circle for all things prep.
YYCADM21@reddit
I agree with what you're saying for the most part. Part of the problem is the level of dependance and (often) overconfidence in their personal ability with a firearm. There are FAR too many who are convinced that a gun will solve most or all of their problems. When that plan doesn't work out (and it NEVER works out), there is no plan B.
I live in a country where guns are controlled much more than in the USA. They are still available certainly, but the mindset is different, with a lower dependency on them as "the only solution".
We still have our share, and they are just as convinced that "Prepping" is making sure you have enough guns, and bullets.
Spare-Sentence-3537@reddit
Even though this is a prepper section of Reddit, you’re still on Reddit. Blasphemy laws against their ideology are still in place and come through here by virtue of just being part of the territory. Admitting that firearm accessibility is essential is too against the approved thought of this overall place, so you’ll have pushback here concerning that subject.
Just have to realize the filter that you’re getting every piece of information through. There’s still useful information to be gleaned from here. Many of the prepping items aren’t so politically tied up, but denial of firearm ownership is just part of the religion here.
Fheredin@reddit
Your problem here is that Reddit (along with most social media in general) has a strong left tilt, so certain conversations can't really be had with zero risk to the community. This is kind of one of them.
In my opinion your most important prep here is firearm training. That training usually needs to start before you ever purchase a gun, because you should already have good trigger discipline and pay attention to backstops and proper storage protocols before you buy a gun.
And that training includes the legal firearm purchase process.
A fully kitted out Armalite which is not backed by owner skill and knowledge is at best an expensive paperweight. More likely it is a hazard. I am not saying that you must spend 100 hours at the range. I have spent maybe 10 hours at a gun range in the past 10 years and I am absolutely confident I can crush an FBI qualification. But you should dry fire train handling the gun (note that some firearms want a snap cap in the chamber to dry fire) and you should actively learn about firearms and firearm safety.
If you are not willing to do that, then you are actually better off not getting a gun. No, I don't think a gun in a safe is going to somehow kill you, but I do think that guns represent a significant money investment and if it becomes a paperweight, you could have bought something else which would have been a more usable prep for you.
But all else being equal, you are better off owning a firearm and having the skills to handle it than without one, the other, or both. So if I can talk you into getting training and a gun, I probably will. If I had to pick only one, I would actually go for the skill--"on site procurement" is a thing because there are plenty of people who may loan or sell you a gun in a disaster.
But that isn't a sure thing and there are limits to the skills you can acquire without ownership. Owning and knowing is best.
KrinkyDink2@reddit
“An expensive gun is useless if you aren’t well trained” is a massive understatement exaggeration. I don’t disagree with you training, practice and familiarity makes a big difference but plenty of uneducated untrained criminals who’ve shot less than 100rds in their life kill plenty of people.
Optics lights and such don’t fully make up for a lack of training but to say that the performance would be identical between an untrained person with a mosin and an untrained person with a zeroed AR with a light and optic is just false.
Again. Training is important, and I’d rather have someone with lots of practice and a mediocre gun on my team than a total novice, but no matter how skilled of a driver you are you can’t go off-roading with a Prius. Unless you have so little training you don’t know how to take the safety off and load a mag, the gun can absolutely make a significant difference even among those with little training.
Away-Map-8428@reddit
defend against civil forfeiture? sure
kkinnison@reddit
if you feel the need to have a firearm as part of your preps, that is your decision. Go ahead.
haumea_rising@reddit
In my area a prisoner broke out of prison and a manhunt lasted for 2 weeks. Our town was scared out of their minds. My husband and I have several guns (less than 5), an alarm system, motion lights, and had extra spotlights hooked up to light up our yard. Most of our neighbors don’t have any of these things, and kept asking my husband to come check their back yards because the police took too long. I kept my handgun on my at all times during that 2 weeks and I’m glad I had it. Never know when a dangerous prisoner is going to be meandering through your back yard.
haumea_rising@reddit
100%. If you don’t have a firearm to protect your food and supplies, someone else with a firearm will take your food and supplies. Obviously a firearm is not a guarantee, as one man with a gun will be outmatched by a group with guns, and then you lose your food and supplies. But you absolutely will not keep them without a weapon.
I got my concealed carry permit when mobs started surrounding cars and roaming through neighborhoods in 2020. So it’s not just for the ultimate SHTF scenario. Defend yourself.
snailbrarian@reddit
I recently purchased my first long gun (AR-15) after being interested in preparedness for years. I have a rifle because handguns are harder to get in my state, and it took me this long because my first priorities were emergency fund + pantry.
In addition, and some people have already said this upthread, but I was not mentally prepared for becoming a gun owner yet. I take the responsibility of owning a firearm very seriously, and through research realized that it was kind of an expensive hobby.
One pushback on your post is that while the startup fee may be under $300 for the hardware itself, ammo, training, and magazines all cost money. A safe costs money. An IFAK or safety courses (can) cost money. An optic or light or scope or whatever costs money. The hardware is just the start of it, and you have to shoot regularly to be more useful with a gun than with a random stick you find.
Now that I have a solid pantry, emergency fund, camping supplies, etc. I can finally focus on firearms. But it came dead last in my priority list.
Aggravating-Reason77@reddit (OP)
You’re definitely not wrong, becoming an expert at your specific weapon and ammo can set you apart.
I’m probably in the wrong forum for this but in a grid down situation I wouldn’t recommend running much else other than iron sights and a flash light, if you have the money to pump into resources and training a decent set of nods and infrared laser but that’s not for the typical prepper, more for the firearm enthusiasts.
Definitely made some good points, thanks for your response!
snailbrarian@reddit
True! Fully also aware that as my current gun is a rifle not everything may be applicable to a handgun. But even without trying to be competitive, isn't shooting regularly necessary to become familiar with it?
Take the MIL story. Precautionary tale?
Aggravating-Reason77@reddit (OP)
Well yeah, absolutely! As a firearm owner there’s rules within the community.
You’re not much good without proper training, without proper training you basically have an expensive noise maker, if you’re serious about being completely proficient with your firearm there’s a few basics you should know (outside of obvious cleaning and common sense gun safety) you should know and trust your ammunition.
For example the typical Ar15 chambered in 5.56 isn’t necessarily limited to 5.56, it can also shoot .223 however the opposite is not true (made for .223 should not shoot 5.56 - unless it’s a .223 wylde) 5.56 has a higher pressure so it is regarded as less safe to be shot out of a rifle specifically calling for .223.
Now that we understand the context of standardized ammunition we need to contemplate around the barrel of your rifle. Barrel length is directly related to accuracy and effective distance of your caliber. 5.56 is a highly versatile round so you’ll find all different barrel lengths for your specific need. 5.56 NATO with a 16” barrel at a muzzle velocity of about 2800 ft/sec is consistent at 400-500 yards.
We could also get into the specific powder/ grams and thread pitch IE; 1:7. That’s not really need to know information but it can be useful.
Adept-University-445@reddit
Preach it my dude! Stay strapped or get clapped!
Big-Preference-2331@reddit
I live in a semi-rural area where our most significant threat is feral dogs. You will get attacked if you’re walking through an area that is their territory. If a pack gets on my homestead, they will kill my livestock. I am always carrying. I think in a SHTF scenario, people's pets will become feral, just like the dogs in my area. I do think you need to have different firearms for different situations.
Greenmantle22@reddit
It’s a very fine line, and to be honest, a lot of prepper spaces feel overrun with (or at least dominated by a few very loud) 2A activists who tend to make guns their entire personality and worldview.
Self-defense is a critical part of adult life, especially in a crisis. And a wise prepper does indeed prepare for defense. But that doesn’t mean they must own a gun or several guns. And it certainly doesn’t mean they need to advertise their gun ownership or fixate on guns as a political issue.
It’s like weed in America: For every one person who’s ambivalent about it, there seems to be ten who make it their entire personality online. Compared to that level of obsession, of course the rest of us look like squares.
Aggravating-Reason77@reddit (OP)
I don’t disagree with you, the loudest (and often most belligerent assholes) are the ones who get to make the splash when the argument for firearms comes up.
I guess judging by how the threads in this forum have been leaning for the past few years I didn’t think there was many responsible firearm owners left in this forum. I’ve never been so happy about being wrong!
Greenmantle22@reddit
Responsible Americans are like the Gorgonites from “Small Soldiers.” They are hiding.
WonkyOne@reddit
It’s so disingenuous to me to see people posting on prepping forums about getting a gun, learning how to use it…meanwhile children and adults are surviving (or not) mass shootings. School shootings. Straight up massacres.
You can say whatever you want about regulation and restriction. In a SHTF scenario that won’t mean anything, are you willing to kill someone to protect your can of beans? Sure, day one, you’ll have more. But is that you?
There has to be a better way than people buying bullet proof backpacks for their kids and killing survivors over whatever stockpile you have in an end of the world apocalypse.
Aggravating-Reason77@reddit (OP)
You’re the type I was more hoping to hear from with this post, thank you for your input.
Though I don’t necessarily agree with what your personal views are when it comes to firearms I think you make a pretty solid point. I believe if you’re going to be an owner and advocate for firearms you need to be completely responsible for them.
The truth is firearms are a tool like many others when in the wrong hands cause a problems, I’m not here advocating for an Oprah situation (you get a gun, you get a gun, EVERYBODY GETS A GUN).
WonkyOne@reddit
I have to admit, we have access to hunting rifles, etc, that are locked up, with the ammo separate. We keep none of it in our home because we have young children, but it’s close enough if needed.
That admitted, I stand by what I said 100%.
I appreciate the discussion, while feeling very strongly about the topic. Many that have it probably wouldn’t be able to use it if it was needed. Too many have access that don’t grasp the responsibility, and at least half the rest think they’re entering a mad max movie.
gw2eha876fhjgrd7mkl@reddit
this is reddit
reddit is predominantly anti-gun
RonJohnJr@reddit
There's a difference between being anti-gun and being anti-"anti-zombie nut who thinks that a room full and guns and ammo are *required* to defend against the *hordes* of marauders who'll march out of the cities and into the country to attack your compound".
The mods have done a good job scaring them away from this sub, but 4-5 years ago, they were 80% of posters and commenters.
gw2eha876fhjgrd7mkl@reddit
like i said, this is reddit
reddit is primarily anti-gun
Aggravating-Reason77@reddit (OP)
Agreed, but this group should be one of the vast exceptions.
bucky_catwell@reddit
This is a really great post; reminds me of the 'before times' Reddit, thank you OP
Aggravating-Reason77@reddit (OP)
Yeah well I’m sure it’ll be taken down before too long. In any case, Thanks for the input!
offgridgecko@reddit
countless stories of economic collapses and war-torn countries and on the issue of firearms it appears to me, that a pistol is a nice safety net to keep on you as the scenario unfolds.
Still need firewood (in places where it's cold) or other means of warmth. Still need water. And humans tend to depend on each other even if they break into cliques or groups or whatever. No need to escalate or make yourself a target by showing people what you got, but that person that manages to back you into a corner... yeah, I'd want something with me.
el_kowshka_es_diablo@reddit
I would just like to say (and I know I’ll get plenty of hate for it) a hi point can be purchased for around $100. I bought a hi point 45 several years ago just out of curiosity. I’m a gun guy. I like shooting. I like customizing guns. I also have a lot of training and experience with firearms thanks to my background in two uniforms. I own and have owned several guns from mossberg to Wilson combat and a lot in between. I can afford more than a hi point but I always defend them because I’ve easily put a few thousand rounds through my HP and it’s never malfunctioned even once. It’s eaten everything I’ve fed it. They’re USA made and have lifetime warranties. Even if you’re poor, you can still have a firearm. If you’re broke, get a HP and fuck the haters.
Aggravating-Reason77@reddit (OP)
My best friend bought a hi point the “Yeet Cannon” last summer for a pack of smokes and a half tank of gas. I guess worst case scenario you have a nice brick to throw at trespassers. All jokes aside, you’re right it comes down to finding out what works for you and the situation you expect to find yourself in, thanks for the insight!
MPH2025@reddit
I would guess most people intentionally avoid talking about guns on the Internet, because talking about guns on the Internet attracts unwanted attention. Maybe it’s just an unspoken assumption that everyone knows it’s an essential part of prepping.
incomplete727@reddit
I prep for Tuesday.
Today was a Tuesday. Someone tried to break in. It turns out it was someone with a mental health issue and they're getting help. But when I called 911, the dispatcher said she was sending it as a burglary in process. And yet, it still took an hour before the police were able to be here.
We fortunately didn't have to use or even threaten to use our guns today, but there's always next Tuesday. This isn't even EOTWAWKI prepping, just common sense, anything can happen prepping.
Aggravating-Reason77@reddit (OP)
Another great example, thanks for your perspective.
Loud_Cockroach_3344@reddit
Use of a firearm as a defensive tool should be a part of every person’s/prepper’s toolkit. Not to wave around, not to brag with nor threaten/terrorize others, but as a defensive tool to protect one’s self, family, supplies - absolutely.
Get reliable sidearms/firearms, seek solid training in accordance with local laws, and keep training to maintain proficiency.
flying_wrenches@reddit
Following some of those “you are your own militia” (don’t shoot me yet fbi) groups are decent to harvest info and only info from that.
I don’t care about the whole “diy neighborhood watch” crap they push, but “here are the 5 things that break most likely on your rifle” or “here’s how to properly ruck” is useful information..
I also do airsoft so some of their stuff on proper plate carrier setups is useful as well..
But be careful of the narratives they often push and the worrying ideologies.
TheAncientMadness@reddit
thought all this was pretty obvious tbh
EffinBob@reddit
I own lots of firearms, but I've told many people on this forum that they should not be a first priority. The fact is you'll generally need water, food, and shelter first, so those should take priority over defense. And for those who can't or don't want to own a firearm for whatever reason, I carefully explain that while having one is never a bad idea, chances are they'll never need on for defense, and in the extremely unlikely event that they ever do, they're even less likely to have to pull the trigger, so not having one around during the vast majority of emergency scenarios is not the automatic death sentence a few others might want them to believe.
Aggravating-Reason77@reddit (OP)
Absolutely, you’re 100% correct. That being said where preparedness is concerned it matters on WHAT you’re preparing for. I think many people in this thread misunderstood my intent when I spoke about ownership and use of firearms.
For example 1) if you’re preparing for a hurricane? Food/clean water/shelter (evacuate).
2) if you’re preparing for civil unrest? Everything above plus a means to keep your loved ones safe.
I think a lot of this forum are interested in 3-5 days surrounding a natural disaster without so much as contemplating the possibility of crisis that cannot be contained by conventional means. I am not prepping for the end of days, I’m not a bible thumper angling for the biblical apocalypse. I’m much more concerned with what I can see happening out in the world right now.
marilynjayna@reddit
I've noticed a lot of preppers are preparing for "milder" situations, like county-wide power outages of unknown length in the middle of winter. Still potentially lethal, but not like a grid-down scenario.
Even very dire non-SHTF scenarios will probably not necessitate a firearm. Now, grid down or true SHTF are a different matter.
The chance of it actually happening is very, very small - but worth considering.
Aggravating-Reason77@reddit (OP)
Yes and No, while I agree that many “Tuesday” prep scenarios are usually a mild “stock up on milk and bread” type of thing especially for the vast majority of the people there’s always a concern of rioting
When mass people group up as civil unrest heightens bad shit happens, doesn’t need to be a disaster or a grid down scenario, the only thing keeping peace is about 3 square meals and a warm bed.
marilynjayna@reddit
I suppose, but if it's not a SHTF scenario and you have to use a gun in self defense, I think we've all seen there's a good chance your life will get ruined anyways. I guess it's still better to have the option? Gonna leave that to my husband. :)
Traditional_Neat_387@reddit
Honestly idk what groups your in but most of the groups I’ve seen are very much “own a gun” kinda groups, but on the opposite side of the spectrum I’ve seen people that put more stock in guns than anything else, realistically unless you’ve served in a combat zone and have been in a fire fight or are a police officer that’s been in a full blow 1 on 1 shootout (or you have for any other reason) a lot of that training your instantly going to forget when rounds start flying because your adrenaline and body’s “will to survive” is gonna kick in. not saying to not own a gun and not to get training just don’t be cocky thinking your gonna be “Rambo” best way to survive a gun fight is not be in one at all. Also people don’t understand what all it takes to treat a gunshot wound, if your trapped in a area with no way to get to a trauma center even getting hit in the arm if it needs a tourniquet odds are even if you got one your screwed if you can’t get help ASAP there’s a reason they time stamp those things it’s to see if there’s even a chance of saving and recovering the limb, doctors like to see 2 hours or less but major damage starts setting in 4-6 hours at 8-12hrs even the bone starts is rapidly dying. Which a gun fight you never know who your going against (skill wise) is it really worth loosing a limb or life in a already emergency situation? By all means again have the training but if you have 10k self defense only rounds unless your supplying a team of people odds are statistically you won’t get to use it all. Hunting rounds by all means stock up but if it’s a long term shtf just remember people with special forces training are likely as probably if not more than you at making it far into a SHTF scenario and if you cross one of them your toast if you start a fight. TLDR:by all means have a gun but be aware there’s always people better trained and equipped than you so keep it to a reasonable amount, hunting rounds by all means have as much as you want. But know your not Johnny Rambo no matter how much you think you know
Aggravating-Reason77@reddit (OP)
You brought up a very important point that I wanted to speak towards myself but somehow forgot.
If you’re going to own a gun you damn well better know atleast the basics on how to patch a hole created by one.
Traditional_Neat_387@reddit
Most of this “tactical medicine” people learn is only meant to get to hospital, it’s just delaying you dying and not even treating it, within 24 hours if tourniquet is needed your limb is 100% dead and sepsis will start setting in unless it gets cut off ASAP, sucking chest wounds you can forget surviving that as without ventilators and surgical intervention your odds are single digits and that’s without infection.
Traditional_Neat_387@reddit
That’s the thing tho a lot of those procedures you wouldn’t be able to do. Even then with modern medicine depending what a bullet damages it may take years to regain proper use of that arm to the point you can even hold and drink from a cup, there’s a former police officer on TikTok who’s been recovering for a few years now from a round hitting him in the arm. Honestly if you want to see more accurate survival rates look at civil war surgery’s and there survival rates assuming you can pull it off (really doubtful though)
up2late@reddit
I have guns, a concealed carry permit, and plenty of ammo. For me it's just a fun hobby. I've been shooting since I was 7 years old. It's nice that it goes well with prepping but that's not why I shoot almost every month. I enjoy the skill of marksmanship. I hunt but don't really enjoy hunting, it's just to fill the freezer. I do enjoy hitting a paper target exactly where I wanted to. I'm military trained so I have safety and maintenance down. I enjoy throwing darts also. To me firing a rifle is much like throwing darts from 300 meters away. Darts are just much easier on my shoulder than my Infield .303.
OGTomatoCultivator@reddit
I’ve seen plenty of jackasses in this sub alone talk about how raiding other people is part of their survival plan. Yes, you need to be armed.
DigitalHuk@reddit
Prepping in general is about anticipation of future threats and contexts as best we can and preparing for them. For those in the US, there are more guns than people. In any major catastrophe, threat, or challenging context we can be relatively sure others will be armed. The question is do you want to navigate those scenarios unarmed?
I do not think major crisis automatically turns armed people into roving bands of marauders. We have disaster after disaster showing that humans pull together and help one another. (Read Sol it's book a Paradise Built in Hell). But I still don't want to be navigating any sustained crisis or day to day life here being unarmed when dealing with armed people I don't know.
This is especially true for me as a person aof color. The racial violence that followed Katrina is something that I believe will follow major challenges.
So yes, buying a gun and ammunition and training with it will not provide electricity, food, potable water, shelter, communication, etc. to help us in any whatever challenge we are preparing for. But it doesn't help one prepare for the increased risk of violence that is an additional layer to other challenges.
Aggravating-Reason77@reddit (OP)
Perfectly said, I think we can all agree that you don’t want to be the odd man out on this issues if SHTF
AdvisorLong9424@reddit
I've been prepping for 30 years, I've been a gun owner much longer. Every gun I own serves a purpose. I have self protection handguns, hunting handguns, close range rifles, long range rifles, small rifles, large rifles, shot guns of differing calibers, even multiple muzzleloaders. Not a single AR in the bunch yet.Guns are useful tools for self preservation, that includes safety against people and critters as well as putting food on the table. You can make hunting traps with them, you can even make bad people think there are more than one or two people if they are thinking they want to attempt taking your stuff. You do need proper training in safely handling and proper training in their use. IMO they are essential for a prepper, but only after you are properly prepped.
Lost_Poem7495@reddit
School shootings and other crap will not matter once shtf. Any political views on guns will vanish. Guns are to kill for protection or for sustenance. Once the great reset occurs, you better have one.
BigBlueWookiee@reddit
Two things....
First - duh
Second, firearms, training, reloading etc. Is much better covered in other subs.
AdministrationOk1083@reddit
I got into prepping through gun ownership. I've got enough guns to keep all my neighbours supplied so we can community watch. I've also got enough handy talkies for the same reason
MadRhetorik@reddit
I am a firm believer in self protection. You are your own rescuer. I’m very wary of people. I’m even more wary of law enforcement. Being able to provide security for yourself and family is very important. Being able to potentially hunt is important. Firearms are not the end all be all of prepping. It’s a facet of it. That being said they are hella enjoyable.
NavyShooter_NS@reddit
So, the question underlying the use of firearms in a 'bad times' circumstance relates directly to the Rule of Law.
Do you expect the Rule of Law to be enforced?
Has the Rule of Law been temporarily suspended?
Will it return? Could you expect to be prosecuted?
In my experience in dealing with disasters and such where 'prepping' was useful, the need for a firearm was absent. This is based on several hurricanes, flooding, etc. Guns were not resorted to, and the rule of law was never lost.
Neighbours helped neighbours (except for that guy...he can GFHS) and we cut trees, setup pumps, ran generators, etc.
Using any tool that you are not familiar with is potentially dangerous. Observe dummies with chainsaws in a post-hurricane cleanup trying to lop up a tree.
A firearm should be considered just another tool in the toolbox. And honestly, one of nearly last resort in most circumstances.
But not one that should be ignored. You might find that you need it, but it will not likely be the first tool that you need to pull out of the toolbox. If it is the first tool you grab, then I personally think you're doing it wrong.
If you have one in your toolbox, then learn how to use it, sight it in, practice with it often enough to be comfortable with it, and accurate when you shoot it. This is not saying you need to take up IPSC or PPC shooting or some other 'tacticool' style. The likelihood of you needing to "John Wick" your way into or out of something is small.
You may need to hunt. Hopefully not things on 2 legs. If you are, then you had best be concerned about the likely return to a Rule of Law circumstance.
I could type more, but I won't...except to state that anyone who's complete 'survival' preparation is based solely on their gun collection is, in my mind, someone who doesn't really understand what they need to survive.
Aggravating-Reason77@reddit (OP)
I genuinely couldn’t have stated it better myself (I know because I tried and failed) I completely agree with you and I appreciate the feedback.
NorthernPrepz@reddit
Im a firearm owner. And the reason is they are incredibly useful tools. My primary reason for owning them is hunting, but i have a 12ga for HD also.
I will say, i generally don’t agree that it’s often overlooked here. I think that’s perceived because a lot of ppl who come on here, with no food, no supplies, no plan, no scenarios and frankly to intention to look at it, just “which ar and plate carrier to buy for shtf”.
The reality is that most ppl who have food and supplies prepped will also be armed, so raiding will be a life limiting proposition quick for lone wolves. And in most scenarios you won’t have zombie hordes coming for you, nor will you be able to murder ppl for their food and generators. It doesn’t mean you won’t need home defense. But it’s not like Florida has devolved into a war of all against all post hurricane, where you need 10k rounds for your AR before you need some water,food,fuel,power, chainsaws, tarps, tools, etc.
So yes, i agree with you, a gun is a critical prep. But too often ppl consider it before they consider stuff they are MORE likely to use.
Aggravating-Reason77@reddit (OP)
I absolutely agree, your firearm(s) supplement your supplies, a gun is a tool one of many useful things you should have with you, I think you stated it better than I could’ve with your closing argument about prioritizing your supplies! Thanks
yeehawmija@reddit
Preppers without guns will essentially become loot pinatas when the time comes.
Shooter306@reddit
Common sense isn't common anymore.
Aggravating-Reason77@reddit (OP)
I’d like to hear your elaborated thoughts on this issue, if you have the time?
YardFudge@reddit
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