How would Picard view the Dune universe realistically?
Posted by No-Reputation8063@reddit | TNG | View on Reddit | 52 comments
Posted by No-Reputation8063@reddit | TNG | View on Reddit | 52 comments
bearsheperd@reddit
I think the most important question is are phasers and laser weapons equivalent to lasguns in dune?
Because if they are then they’ll cause a massive explosion if they hit a dune shield.
gwhh@reddit
My fave Patrick Stewart story from Dune is that he genuinely had no idea who Sting was. On learning he was a musician, he asked if he was a solo artist. Sting replied he was in The Police which Patrick thought meant he played in a police band.
Glad_Concern_143@reddit
He did an interview with John Hodgman where he admitted he still had his wig from “I, Claudius”, and used it for both “Dune” and “TNG” auditions, and it’s in his closet to this day.
elgrandefrijole@reddit
Please tell me you remember where you read or heard this so I can immediately watch.
grunkage@reddit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb_LO7gJo-4
Historyp91@reddit
The better revelation is that he ate tacos once a week with Max Von Sadow
elgrandefrijole@reddit
Thank you! Amazing
grunkage@reddit
I hadn't actually seen it either
socialcommentary2000@reddit
You know, I never realized it, but that scene of the borg cutting the ship, it's actually lifting out multiple decks in a single go. It's easy to forget the sheer scale of the Enterprise D when you're used to watching it fight in space or in the establishing shots.
Max_Danage@reddit
This is one of my fav special effects in the whole series. It is always great when an event happens that combines human scale and the models. Now if they could just be consistent about the size of things.
bassman314@reddit
In Voyager, they actually put little silhouettes in the windows of the model, as the craft is smaller, so the windows were more than simple pin-pricks.
Max_Danage@reddit
That’s a nice touch. I remember reading the the model for the E had windows that looked in on rooms with doll house furniture.
criscodisco6618@reddit
My dad was a huge Trek fan, as was my mom's brother, so every Saturday night he'd come over and my dad and uncle would watch TNG together, with me on the floor watching along.
I still remember the crazy shout of "HOLY SHIT LOOK AT THAT" my uncle made when it started lifting decks out of the Enterprise, and I still shout it in his memory when I watch the episode.
Present_Character241@reddit
Bro my dyslexia really effected my first read of this, and I thought it said:
Had me realling for a second.
AJSLS6@reddit
This shot is one of iirc 2 canon depictions of toilets in star trek, the other being the brig in ST5.
psionfyre@reddit
I think this might work better on DS9 tbh. The prophets/Sisko/Paul. Kai Winn/Reverend Mother, Bajoran/Cardassian Fremen/Harkonnen. Jem Hadar/Sardaukar?
amitym@reddit
It might work better but then you wouldn't have Patrick Stewart on both ends.
MaddyMagpies@reddit
It's basically the Spore Drive but a million times more brutal and depressing.
What Picard would likely do is to share the warp drive technology and help terraform Arrakis in a few hours.
CedgeDC@reddit
There's literally an episode where there's a planet addicted to a drug and he doesn't really push for that. Prime directive and all.
I think this would be a messy situation.
MaddyMagpies@reddit
And we know what happened afterwards in Lower Decks.
psionfyre@reddit
Also now that I think further, remember Picard's statement to Lily in First Contact? "We work to better ourselves, and the rest of humanity". Mentats, Bene Gesserit, mental and physical disciplines & schools, had developed in the wake of a machine war millennia prior. Human complacency led to oppression, then revolt. The abolishment of thinking machines, (though I think some level of simple computers were still used?) led to a new era for humanity. It could be argued that the Dune humans (even despite the ulterior motivations of the Great Houses) still succeeded magnificently in this regard of bettering themselves.
ClarkMann52@reddit
Picard would be dead or totally irrelevant in under 2 seconds
Booksaregrand@reddit
Nah, he's got pretty strong plot armor.
ClarkMann52@reddit
Q uses the people turned into salt to transpose Qs self everywhere but the dude erases everything by forcing Q to forget everything and the entire reality is erased in under 2 seconds and dude forgets everything and none of it ever happened
ClarkMann52@reddit
I personally expand the observer function which ends all the observed existence but that’s not a plot that is
ClarkMann52@reddit
It would be all about Q fighting over the Worm and the guy who thought that species out of existence and put Troi in a bad state
ClarkMann52@reddit
The worm is Omni present and so is the guy. Humans will all be dead in under 2 seconds along with all other life as Q grabs everything and fails
villagust2@reddit
After a day or two of observation, Picard would Prime Directive the hell out of there.
loki_odinsotherson@reddit
Cut them off from their spice supplies, leave a beacon that warns of giant worms under the sand,
GonzoI@reddit
Like other technologically lesser, and socially frustrating societies with a large empire. The Talarians are a good example from TNG.
The real power of the Dune universe is an initially limited ability to see the future of "humanity". The manipulation of space and time we see in Brian Herbert's continuation of the Dune universe seems to be outside the view of that power, so odds are Picard is outside of it too. And while the meme is funny, their technology is not the same and wouldn't stand up to Starfleet. We don't know how a phaser or photon torpedo would interact with the shields of Dune (which in Brian Herbert's telling was a ship based tech too) but it's compared to "atomics" which we know TOS Enterprise had only a little trouble with and Enterprise D had no trouble with. Their other weapons were kinetic and lasers, both of which we know aren't a threat to Enterprise D from on-screen dialog.
The only tech that might give any advantage is space folding, which is a tech the Federation is aware of but hasn't mastered. We see that used by terrorists to kidnap Crusher in "The High Ground", but while they figure out a way to track it, it isn't clear if they could figure out a way to block it. But using Heighliners to spacefold-ram Starfleet ships is a losing proposition if it came to that.
garth54@reddit
The real question is how the Enterprise would fare against the obliterators.
Also, any federation planet would probably have a bad time if someone were to drop in a few worms or sand trout.
But let's not dismiss stuff like Voice, or the patience of the people to wait very long period of times to achieve their goal.
That said, the second the Federation realize they can nuke Dune vessels with lasers, if they fight each other Dune would be in serious trouble.
GonzoI@reddit
Obliterators and other Thinking Machine Empire tech is more in line with threats the Federation takes seriously, yes. It's not too far out of their reach, though. The Genesis Device had a similar output, the Planet Killer and Red Matter (as much as I hate that one) were more powerful, and technically a capital ship of any Federation or peer is supposed to be capable of the same level of destruction (according to Kirk and Picard at different points), though we never actually see that happen even in situations where it makes sense for an alien to do it. The real problem with the Thinking Machine Empire is the sheer scale of it. We're not given exact details, but the intentionally mysterious phrasing and some of the implications are very similar to the thinking machines we see jump to the defense of the Soong type androids in Picard. And, to be honest, if I were going to make a crossover point, that would be it.
Worms don't transfer between planets easily. They tried that in Dune and it only succeeded after Leto II manipulated things, and even then it was limited. It's also fairly easy to manage the sandworm territorial expansion with water management, something the Federation has the technology for (see the DS9 episode "Let He Who is Without Sin" for an example.)
Picard individually is almost certain to fall prey to the Voice since he likes to go and talk to everyone like a diplomat, but we've seen more effective non-technological weapons in Star Trek so that's more mixed. I could see it probably carrying through the shields of the brig, so capturing a Voice user would probably lead to a compromised ship or two, which might help with your second point of their patience. Capture a ship, then go dark for a while until you've reverse engineered it and improved on it, capture another ship to see what you've missed while going dark, etc. This is sort of a longer scale version of what the Romulan Empire did, and the Romulans had far fewer resources than the Dune powers. That said, they would need a charismatic leader pushing for that, so it really just depends on who is in charge of the raiding party. If it's someone in the Atreides line with futuresight abilities, they probably won't see Starfleet's future but they would see their own future quietly building off the technology. The main downside to this that I see is Starfleet tech heavily relies on technology they might see as "thinking machine" tech and thus reject.
It also depends a lot on why they would fight. The first engagement is most likely going to be whatever human empire is in charge of the Dune side at the time deciding to expand into Starfleet's territory and they would just flat lose. But after losing, the question is if they would prepare for a long-term hostility or negotiate. By the tie of the Honored Matres invasion, things had gotten a lot more diverse and futuresight was less useful, but there is room for actions to arise who won't negotiate and will go off and plan like you suggested. And at that point they were largely unaware that the machines were still a looming threat, so they might see Starfleet as the new great threat and do what the Romulans did.
HellyOHaint@reddit
Have they ever gone that far into the future?
Theborgiseverywhere@reddit
It sure about Picard, but Tasha could have impressed the Fremen just as much as Duncan Idaho
honeybadger1984@reddit
So I believe Picard would fare poorly.
Dune is a dystopian galaxy where might makes right. Any peace accord comes from mutually assured destruction and multiple sides having an uneasy alliance. Most are distrusting.
Picard works when diplomacy is on the table and reasonable men will yield. That won’t work on the Emperor or Baron Harkonnen or the Bene Gesserit.
Sisko would thrive better here. Practical and willing to get dirty, especially with Garak helping. The only issue is Garak will defect and help the Emperor or the Baron when it suits his purposes.
spazzyattack@reddit
No battle pug? It didn’t happen.
DarthHK-47@reddit
Picard would wonder why nobody seems to be concerned about the thinking machines. They have to be out there somewhere.....
Also, keeping data away from them seems to be a good idea.
talllankywhiteboy@reddit
If the interaction was a TNG episode, Data would be a member of the away team sent to investigate the Duniverse humans, and it would be a disaster. Basically the entire human civilization in the Dune universe would go berserk upon learning of Data's existence. Dune society has a deep rooted fear and loathing of any form of artificial life, and Data is the pinnacle of that. Add in the holodeck and main computer system, and the Enterprise would accidentally get a holy war declared on them.
Drmadanthonywayne@reddit
Imagine what the people of Dune would think of Data
LeadGem354@reddit
Reeeeeeeee intensifies with murderous intent. "Do not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind".
HistorianTight2958@reddit
Dune tech-tech wouldn't get far at all with a head to head battle since they have outlawed all high-end computers. They are behind even wirhin our real world in that respect, never mind universes with replicator machine that can create (and recycle) nearly anything, A.I. computers to navigate and android officers. Their biotech is far beyond Star Trek, though, as Star Trek outlawed high-end genetic engineering. I can certainly see a conflict brewing. But my money is on the Star Trek universe winning one way or the other, as Picard would view them as very alien and backward civilization. But respect them for their beliefs as it certainly mirrors the Federation with regards to that genetics engineering ban.
verylittlegravitaas@reddit
They're carving us up like a roast.
Historyp91@reddit
"Wow look at all these weirdos fighting over drugs becauase their shitty FTL system needs junkies to pilot it"
Rangertough666@reddit
This comment is so underrated it's criminal.
Moseley85jr@reddit
Picard would be disgusted by the Dune universe as much as they would be disgusted by him. He who flys through space amongst thinking machines would look down upon the greedy power hungry feudalist.
franktheguy@reddit
Mood's a thing for cattle or making love or playing the baliset. Of course I desire jamaharon!
sonorousjab@reddit
Pretty sure he would be horrified by the "feudalism in space" nature of the Dune universe.
The no computers, and especially no AI thing would be super confusing for him too, at least until someone explained that: Oh yeah, the leaders of this universe have been using sandworm "byproducts" to see the future, and they're super concerned because they foresee the robots that previously tried to kill everyone will come back to finish the job.
Then he calls for the arch to GTFO of this bizarre holo-novel.
Own_Chemistry_3724@reddit
I'm lost lol
Jean-LucBacardi@reddit
He'd wonder how they survive without computers. Then he'd see his worst nightmare come to life, a baby that can fucking talk and fight.
Estarfigam@reddit
He would probably think Gurney wa a handsome devil.
Groundbreaking-Pea92@reddit
wevre seen what a shiity birtual boy video game can do to a starfleet crew, a little spice would cripple starfleet . Picard would order a full volley of torpedoes and phasers until nothing was left
ClarkMann52@reddit
I’d more interested in Q and what they are doing with the people the continuum turn into salt and deposit with giant worms that eat it and render their digestive systems into Valhalla