What do the ensigns who worked their tails off to attain their exp and rank think of S1 Wesley?
Posted by raythecrow@reddit | TNG | View on Reddit | 43 comments
First time poster so apologies if this is a dead horse.
I'm sure the ensigns have heard or seen Wesley's gifts but would that change the feelings of the officers who did the work?
I'd be pissed if I were a new ensign, assigned to my dream job piloting the Enterprise after the grueling SFA, only to lose fight hours to a literal child.
LordCouchCat@reddit
From a narrative, out of universe point of view, Wesley was clearly a mistake.
In hierarchies, there are in real life usually plenty of people who have overtaken the better qualified. People don't complain in public. In the 24th century perhaps they're so evolved they rise above it, though in general it seems that status is very important to them - money obviously is no longer a way to get more respect but rank apparently is.
When I was young I positively disliked the young-person-to-identify-with thing. In the same way I used to dislike the teenagers who were chosen to go to youth events where they claimed to speak on behalf of the rest of us. Not that I knew any, of course.
Malacro@reddit
I think in season 1 they were still operating on Gene’s whole weird thing about humans having progressed beyond their baser feelings and no longer feeling jealousy or grief, so it’s hard to say. Throwing that nonsense out, they’d probably be very annoyed.
HedleyLamarr1874@reddit
Life is like that in any field, especially in the military. If someone is close to someone with power, they will get special treatment and someone might get screwed over it.
Remember the TNG saying: It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.
This falls into that category.
jackfaire@reddit
I just watched Strange New Worlds and through much of season 1 we see Cadet Uhura doing the jobs that Ensigns do. To my mind that's basically what Wesley was doing is getting his cadet hours.
ozzy_og_kush@reddit
He was only given the opportunity because the Traveler told Picard he was special and had an unusually good understanding of how the ship works.
raythecrow@reddit (OP)
That's great and all but if a superior android (flow with me here) joined the crew and outpaced Data in every way, what would become of Data?
My point is less about the skill of Wesley but the shunting of a supremely qualified pilot off to somewhere that can certainly be considered a demotion.
Think about it like this: you graduated top of the academy as a pilot. Impressed enough to get assigned to the Enterprise. Probably the greatest news you've ever recieved. You know the current Chief Engineer and Chief Tactical officers both were promoted from con positions. You see your angle. Youre thinking to yourself "Its all coming together".
Next thing you know some entity convinces your captain that some kid is a space genius and now your career trajectory is tanked.
Gotta hurt.
YT-Deliveries@reddit
You’re missing the fact that there are things such as duty rotations and there’s multiple shifts on the ship.
LOUDCO-HD@reddit
They all love and admire him because there is no unhealthy competition or jealousy in the 24th century, that was abolished when they no longer needed a monetary system. Everyone exists only for self improvement and the betterment of mankind.
Roddenberry’s perfect world.
raythecrow@reddit (OP)
Would love to see GR's flow chart for how eliminating the monetary system would lead to humans being civil to one another.
YT-Deliveries@reddit
All of civilization basically collapsed after world war 3. With the Vulcans helping out after first contact, a new template was created and once post-scarcity became a reality actual monetary systems ceased to have any real world utility
Clarctos67@reddit
I'd suggest doing some reading before being quite so dismissive of effects which have been seen throughout human history.
Drakeytown@reddit
I feel like that kind of thinking would just be considered petty in Starfleet. Yes, I worked hard to get here, because I'm a human and that's how our learning and development works. If we meet another species that can learn everything I learned in that time just by looking at the console for a second, it would be absurd for me to hold that against them. I don't know if Wesley Crusher is an alien hybrid or a mutant or what, but he clearly has abilities i do not. We all contribute as best we can with the abilities we have.
raythecrow@reddit (OP)
Yea that part of Star Trek lore never sat right with me. I can understand us changing the way we govern ourselves but humans are still human.
To think humans dropped the ability to have the more problematic emotions and feelings but kept and enhanced the emotions and feelings that motivate us to be the best version of ourselves? Nahhhh. Part and Parcel.
There is nothing about Federation life that would prevent me from feeling all the nasty feelings. War, displacement, death, longing etc. all still exist.
YT-Deliveries@reddit
That was sort of Roddenberry’s vision for Star Trek. The idea that we as a species “grow up and out” of things like hubris and bigotry and reactionary thinking. It’s one of the reasons I am not a fan of DS9, because it deconstructs all that for no reason other than the fact that Berman never really got Roddenberry’s vision.
Drakeytown@reddit
Sure, everyone has had all the feelings forever, and always will, but what we do with them certainly changes over time. There are times and places where everyone accepted that anger or disagreement meant somebody had to die, or lots of people had to die. I am lucky enough not to live in such a time or place, or not be directly exposed to it anyway. I'm not better than the duelists and death dealers, I just live in a time and place where that kind of life is as unthinkable to me as mine is to them. So does the displaced ensign file a petition to have Wesley removed from his position, the bridge, or the ship? No, he talks to the ship's counselor about his feelings, and if he remains unhappy with his station in life, he sees what he can do to change it
WhoMe28332@reddit
They probably think his mom is sleeping with the Captain.
868triniguy@reddit
I imagine they’d be pissed. In reality I doubt Picard would have ever done that. Out of character. Could cost him his command. And yeah I know people would say he’s the captain, it’s his ship, he can do that if he wants. Well…no I’m sure he can’t. Imagine the captain of your commercial flight saying I’m captain I can do that. Oh wait…that did already happen. Kid put in the pilots seat. Aeroflot flight 593. You know what happened? The plane crashed. You think captain of a nuclear submarine or aircraft carrier could do that crap? So why would a galaxy class starship with over 1000 souls on board be piloted by a underaged, unqualified kid who never even went to the academy to have any formal training?
tk1178@reddit
Wasnt there an episode in s2 that directly dealt with this, where Wes was put in command of an away team of experienced Science ensigns? Didn't they have a problem with him at first because of his age and because he hasn't even been to the Academy?
Malnurtured_Snay@reddit
There's a B plot where Wesley is placed in command of a group of seasoned officers running a planetary survey. Two different officers give him advice on how to handle a particular aspect of the survey and Wesley has to decide whose advice to take. He eventually makes the decision, and when he does, the officers are all: okay, cool, right away! They don't give him grief or anything. Any pressure Wesley feels is just his own insecurities about how he, as a very junior acting ensign, is supposed to issue orders to older, more experienced officers.
imascarylion2018@reddit
If I remember correctly it’s not as cut and dry as that and was more about Wesley’s ability to command than it is the other being uncomfortable and undermining him.
They have the experience and are doing what they think is best, but Wesley doesn’t have the experience in pushing them to reach the goal he wants so they’re all just kind of doing their own thing. Once Wesley becomes assertive and begins giving them actual orders, they’re like “yeah, sure thing” and do it without hesitation.
BigMrTea@reddit
They all knew it was for his benefit to learn about command. As I recall, they went out of their way to be nice to him.
EffectiveSalamander@reddit
It sounds like a mistake was made communicating with the rest of the team. Should have explained to them "Look, I know he's not an officer, but sometimes you're going to have civilians in charge of the mission. You're in charge of the team, Wesley is in charge of the mission." It would have help deal with confusion and resentment. It would have been more realistic if Wesley was not in charge of the mission, but was instead given a task on a mission. You'd have to make sure that the team leader gave him an actual task, not just makework.
raythecrow@reddit (OP)
He was put in charge of a science team in the ship comprised of older officers. He worried about his supervisory role.
Wesley ends up doubting himself when on one of the officers counters Wesleys decision.
Everyone eventually fell in line though. Would have been nice to see that play out in a different way. Maybe the officers being rightfully hesitant to trust the leadership of a (albeit genius) but still a child enrolled in Star Fleet Academy.
WhatWouldTNGPicardDo@reddit
Pen pal. It’s the source on my user name: riker says it to Wes.
owlpellet@reddit
Nepo baby. I assume there was someone on the back of the bridge running Real Ops while he was sitting up front.
raythecrow@reddit (OP)
Def a nepo baby. Chief Medical officer's kid and the captain's dead best friend's kid just so happens to be soooo smart and talented that he can pilot the ship from day 1 but not so smart that he can just skip SFA all together? Make it make sense
GonzoI@reddit
While the writing behind Wesley was very Scrappy Doo, His character arc really does make sense if you think about it.
Reading the user manual isn't genius level. Any ensign can pilot a starship in the conditions he was allowed to pilot in as a kid. As can anyone without Starfleet training who takes over a Starfleet ship in the half dozen episodes where that happened. Even the Pakleds could use some of the Starfleet tech they stole.
But even with the genius he was supposed to be, scoring barely behind another genius was only getting him early admission into SFA. There's no skip option for geniuses. It was combination college stand-in and commissioned officer training stand-in. I don't know of any case where someone got to be a commissioned officer just because they were a genius in Star Trek canon. If they're in Starfleet and didn't go to academy, they're a non-commissioned officer (NCO) like Miles O'Brien (they called him "Chief" as an abbreviation of "Chief Petty Officer"). There was a separate "Technical Services Academy" that NCOs could attend, but it doesn't seem to have been required.
His transition from boy genius to background character is kind of typical. A lot of us were seen as having a ton of potential as kids but end up in middle management or as patent office clerks who never got around to rewriting physics like that one guy.
raythecrow@reddit (OP)
It seemed to me that even though the instructor says the other guy won due to other factors than Wesley helping him, the scene heavily implies Wesley could have come out on top if he wasn't so helpful to others and doubtful of himself.
Idk about that. Wes is a tech genius but his arc after entering SFA doesnt add up to much. We're told he had this awakening as he was approaching graduation but we don't see any hint of that doubt until it happens.
GonzoI@reddit
That's what lines up the most with reality.
As I mentioned:
I say this as one of those kid "geniuses". I do have a rewarding, technical career, but I'm not the author, millionaire, household name you expect to be at the result of a "genius" kid growing up. And this is the common experience for the vast majority of us. We might understand special relativity, perform well beyond our age academically and be able to write our own software as children, but that's not that impressive when we become adults and nothing more came of it.
The "kid genius" trope is a fantasy that the kid showing early capability is going to magically grow from the capability proportionally to how other kids grow from their capabilities, and it just doesn't work like that.
And probably by accident (he was inherently terrible writing every time he showed up) he happened to be that as well - every time he did something smart as a kid the non-genius adults knew exactly what he'd done and were just impressed he did it at that age.
The only thing truly special with him was the science-magic stuff with the Traveler. Which, yeah, was terrible writing that was forgotten and then hastily picked back up in the last season and forgot again in Nemesis, then shoved it back in again in Picard. That was almost entirely separate from his "kid genius" trope. Particularly with how it ignored his earlier moral dilemma at SFA that was the closest to good writing he got.
i-like-legos2@reddit
He would be getting harassed with comments about how he only got the promotion because his mom was sleeping with the Captain.
raythecrow@reddit (OP)
It would have been so satisfying if the junior officers treated him like the nepo baby he is.
sidv81@reddit
Traveler wesley from the future showed up and threatened them from hazing his younger self. The junior officers then reported that wesley from the future was threatening them, but no one believed them
normymac@reddit
They were then forced to watch Minority Report by HR.
JugOfVoodoo@reddit
For me it would depend on whether the whole "acting ensign" thing was created just for Wesley or if it was a fleet-wide program that any teenager could apply for. Since Starfleet had started taking families and civilians on their ships it makes sense that they'd create a training program for young people who show the interest and aptitude to become officers.
Billy1121@reddit
It evolved during ds9 into the "child soldier" program
raythecrow@reddit (OP)
If that program did exist I imagine it would not involve those young people piloting the ship unassisted. Wesley was given alot of leash almost immediately.
Hell even after he took over the ship and no one had the technical skill to stop him, he was still allowed unimpeded access to the bridge. Wacky reasoning.
theantnest@reddit
I was a Wesley crusher in my career.
At one point I was 19 years old and in charge of a team that included 35-40 year olds that had been wanting my job for years.
Those people were hostile to me. I had to learn very quickly how to manage them. It was not easy at all.
raythecrow@reddit (OP)
If you were on the Enterprise all you wouldve needed was a little pluck because no one in the future acts on or allows negative emotions to interfere with their very important careers.
Inside_Jelly_3107@reddit
I've always wondered this. Also, what about the fact that there are actual children and families on board... I'm sure they wouldn't have expected the captain to let a kid drive?! ÀND a family friends kid?
raythecrow@reddit (OP)
I agree. I'd have liked to see Wesley grinding for some respect down in engineering before he piloted but engineering wasnt a main focus in S1.
erlkonigk@reddit
No, he's a perfect golden boy writers pet, everyone loves him.
FoxWyrd@reddit
When he's given a command in S2 and they don't immediately fall in line, I fully imagine that after Wesley told Riker, Riker had some closed door conversations with them. I say this because they immediately followed the order when Wesley pushed the issue afterwards.
There's no doubt in my mind that every member of Starfleet aboard the Enterprise, besides the Bridge Crew and Geordi, avoided Wesley whenever possible.
There's literally no way to interact with him without your every interaction being scrutinized under a microscope by the senior officers on board. Its like when you get assigned to work with the VP's kid. Sure, you do a good job, the VP might be grateful, but probably not. However, if you mess up, hell hath no fury.
raythecrow@reddit (OP)
I'd have a hard time connecting to him for sure. The kid is never wrong about science stuff, almost omniscient. And he took muh job.
Bravo to Dr. Crusher for having the cradle of human evolution betwixt her thighs, respectfully.