So did Tesla basically scam everyone who pre-ordered the Tesla Roadster?
Posted by whatsapprocky@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 284 comments
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Secksualinnuendo@reddit
My manager reserved one when it was announced. I think it was $50k down? In any case, he has been driving a audi E tron RS for a few years. He says he can't imagine wanting anything quicker. I believe his reserve is still active.
Kranthiuf91@reddit
Yes, I thought so too.
p3dal@reddit
I honestly forgot about the roadster entirely until you brought it up. Musk is back at his usual formula of using product announcements to drive the stock price. Delivering low volume sports cars does not help the stock price.
IShouldBeInCharge@reddit
Right. Like Porsche would sell the same number of SUVs without the sports cars. Right? Right? Or ...
p3dal@reddit
That's not even remotely what I'm saying. But to address your comparison, Tesla is not in the same situation as Porsche at all. Yes, the Porsche brand is entirely based around their performance car heritage, and they need to maintain that brand image. Tesla's brand isn't, their brand is based around being an innovator. Tesla's stock price has been dramatically inflated by hyperbolic promises of future growth and previously untapped revenue streams. With the Model Y now as the best selling car in the world, it should be obvious they're not trying to be Porsche, who focuses on low volume, high margin sales. Tesla has to deliver on their growth projections, which require entering new markets, delivering on FSD promises, and continuing to scale production in line with demand in spite of tariffs on their suppliers. The roadster isn't the essence of the Tesla brand which will help them sell their high volume passenger cars, because after 16 years on the market, everyone knows you get a lot of performance out of an electric motor. They don't need a halo car to show what they are capable of, they've already proven it with their existing performance models.
That being said, I hope they do bring it to market soon.
IShouldBeInCharge@reddit
It's always fun when people explain why I don't exist. Thanks!
p3dal@reddit
What on earth are you talking about?
IShouldBeInCharge@reddit
Tesla's popularity is slipping. What you said is true for their base. To expand their reach they need to bring new people in and to many of those people (like me) the halo car matters. I have zero interest in any of the models aside from roadster.
p3dal@reddit
My point about the roadster is that because it will never be a high volume seller, it will not be a meaningful uplift to their stock price, and it is not central to their strategy. After the flop of the cybertruck, the investors are going to be a lot less enthusiastic about Musk's other hare-brained ideas, and that's likely a big reason whey they're trying to force him out.
Meanwhile you can already get 911/Corvette level performance out of the Model 3 Performance in an economy car package, for significantly less money. They're literally in the same SCCA class for autoX.
I want the roadster too, but as you said yourself, it's not going to inspire you to go buy a Model Y.
IShouldBeInCharge@reddit
I have zero interest in the models now because there is no halo. The halo concept has worked on me in the past ... switched me from BMW to Lexus. Lexus had the same moving speedo from the LFA. Before the F Sport trim I had never considered them. Maybe silly but it works.
p3dal@reddit
Those are two very different statements.
Anyhow, I guess that's just you then. The Model S Plaid fills the Halo role pretty well already, and it's actually attainable and built to demand. I would say the current formula has already worked, with the world's best selling car and all.
IShouldBeInCharge@reddit
Right ... so we're back to "your opinion is unique in the world." Which I don't think is true.
p3dal@reddit
Well, we all know you should be in charge. Which I don't think is true.
IShouldBeInCharge@reddit
This is not relevant ... I assume you've realized that your take is trash so you moved the posts ... very boring.
XxRoyalxTigerxX@reddit
You know what’s hilarious?
Tesla dropped like 8% after the reveal, people realizing this stuff is just vaporware that won’t ever hit the streets
ChamberofSarcasm@reddit
The demo wasn't that impressive. Having "autonomous" car drive a pre-determined, closed street, is not ground-breaking when Waymo and Cruise are doing real R&D miles out on public roads. People have finally caught on to Musk and they'd rather pay upon delivery than trust he will.
Heylookitscaps2@reddit
Waymo is creepy af by the way. My office is across the street from them and it still freaks me out when I look over at a driverless car
tomatoblade@reddit
Creepy?
Pallets_Of_Cash@reddit
There was the news story of people being kept up all night by Waymo cars going to their depot and then just driving around beeping at each other to get out of the way and never parking lol.
tomatoblade@reddit
We'll that's creepy
Heylookitscaps2@reddit
Na more like gridlock when they glitch
Heylookitscaps2@reddit
Yeah they do all the traffic merging stuff right at our intersection. They got locked up once and completely shut down the road for multiple hours once
ChamberofSarcasm@reddit
I find Elon's tweet at T Swift saying "Ok, I'll give you a baby" much more creepy.
Heylookitscaps2@reddit
Yeah because perverts are far more unusual than a car with nobody in it doing 60 😂
__-__-_-__@reddit
cruise is suspended
ChamberofSarcasm@reddit
Good point.
nucleartime@reddit
Tesla still hasn't figured out full self driving for the Vegas loop. The pre-determined closesd street with no cross traffic, lane changes, or pedestrians.
sdhu@reddit
So, like a trolley car, or train? It always goes back to mass transportation
samwisetg@reddit
America will do anything to avoid having good accessible public transport.
Silent_nutsack@reddit
I don’t understand this, I’ve travelled to quite a few countries in the EU and using train or bus systems was cheap and easy and safe. But back here I would never step foot on a bus unless I was looking for a fight or a $5 BJ from a crack whore
woot0@reddit
Tesla Model Train
sdhu@reddit
S3XTY?
Snuhmeh@reddit
Stocks always drop after announcements. It’s profit-taking and smart investing.
FrostyFire@reddit
Tesla historically drops 10% after events.
twinbee@reddit
Exactly what they said about the Cybertruck and most other Tesla vehicles.
andrew2018022@reddit
I don’t doubt it’ll hit the street one day, just absolutely not 2026. Maybe 2030.
HalfFrozenSpeedos@reddit
3036 maybe
WanganTunedKeiCar@reddit
That value drop is the most satisfying news of my day
xelIent@reddit
And cancelling it definitely doesn’t bring up the stock price. So people with pre-orders will likely sit in limbo for many more years.
3Mtibor@reddit
There’s a word for announcing a product that you never planned on launching, and are collecting money against, all to boost your stock price.…
Jedi_Gill@reddit
Vaporware
dcux@reddit
Fraud.
tomatoblade@reddit
Bingo!
HalfFrozenSpeedos@reddit
pump and dump
Alabamahiss@reddit
I like Elon; he's bright, a true entrepreneur, loves the USA, and I believe he's conscious of the plight of the American citizen. He is an inventor. As far as electric cars go, he has the best. It was not meant to change the transportation of the world. We do not have an electric grid ready, and we have the ability and means to be energy-free. If you had the money, what dream car would you pick? He is not a cheat. He's a businessman.
ScipioAfricanvs@reddit
They probably realized the market for a roadster is much smaller than a sedan, crossover, or truck (or robotaxi lmao) and aren’t really devoting resources to its development. It also doesn’t help that Elon changes his mind on a whim then dedicates tons of resources to that project. It’s clear he doesn’t care about the roadster, so Tesla resources are directed elsewhere.
CromulentPoint@reddit
The roadster is and always was a halo car. It was never about high production numbers. It’s reasonable to assume they already knew the market limitations or didn’t care. Dragging it out this long is worth criticizing.
gbeezy007@reddit
Been so long I feel like it went from Halo car to might be worth actually making a 2 door performance EV. Maybe not 250k though.
Tesla felt ahead of other automakers in EV in general now they all have caught up maybe Tesla should move into other areas no one's done well yet like the roadster to still feel ahead.
But I agree it's wild how little the public doesn't drag em down for the false promises
PRSArchon@reddit
The MG EV roadster is getting really good reviews, will start custumer deliveries start of 2025.
ab84eva@reddit
Call it by it's name- MG Cyberster
thebuttonmonkey@reddit
I’m really interested in this thing, but the name baffles me. A legacy-referencing ‘MG-E’ was right there.
Aero06@reddit
Remembering how many failed EV companies arose just blatantly copying Tesla's nomenclature: Nikola, Edison Motors, Faraday Future, I really didn't think "Cyberster" would keep all the way to production, but I guess one nameplate managed to slip through the cracks.
thebuttonmonkey@reddit
Feels like a concept car name, right?
PRSArchon@reddit
Most people on Reddit will have no idea what a cyberster is though, it wont even be sold in the US.
ab84eva@reddit
Nah, I think the name is apt enough to convey that it's a Chinese ripoff of the Tesla Roadster. I can't speak of the quality but that name has low quality knockoff undertones written all over it
PRSArchon@reddit
I haven't driven it yet but got to spend some time around and in the car at an event. I was surprised how good the interior looks and feels. The name is more of a nod towards the Boxster, (boxer-roadster) and the cyberster being an EV roadster. The Cyberster also beat the boxster in timing and pricing.
CakeCookiesPizza@reddit
China has a some very nice 2-door EVs that are super cheap.
Yes, I know China gets hate because insert reason, but their EVs are far more aesthetic than ours.
INACCURATE_RESPONSE@reddit
Insert reasons
gestures at sanctions placed on Russia after Ukraine invasion meaning that Microsoft or any other modern operating system couldn’t be used
If something escalates with china, I don’t want to no be able to use my car.
OperationIntrudeN313@reddit
I'm not any kind of expert on international law but I think enforcing sanctions on modern open-source OSes would be nigh impossible. Trying to charge/fine/jail everyone who made a commit to Mint would be insane.
gbeezy007@reddit
True I don't hate on them but I also can't buy them in the USA so I don't follow the market much
hi_im_bored13@reddit
Especially when they had people dropping 50k (or 250k!) on a pre-order. Folks just gave tesla millions in interest free loans. They straight up just stole money
The cybertruck delay & price changes were bad but big difference between a 100$ refundable deposit and six figures
But the folks that are willing to give up a quarter mil to tesla for a car that doesn’t exist probably aren’t hurting for cash and are quite far up teslas arse anyways, I don’t think they’d care much.
lowstrife@reddit
They are pretty pissy now, and even more so when they find out just how hard it is to get your money back. While possible, it takes more than a smile.
Porencephaly@reddit
Anyone who put a deposit down at the time was a moron, plain and simple. Elon/Tesla’s performance claims were obviously a coke-addled fantasy that EV tech 7 years ago couldn’t remotey achieve.
Multifaceted-Simp@reddit
Didn't the plaid come out around that time and absolutely crush the standards then?
hi_im_bored13@reddit
It did, and they had a working prototype of the roadster at the event that i tried and it absolutely could hit 60 in near or under 2s.
At the time, apart from the range, the specs they advertised looked pretty doable. Who knows why it’s taking so long
Oh_ffs_seriously@reddit
Did those specs include "cold-gas thrusters" or whatever this nonsense was called?
hi_im_bored13@reddit
No, that was part of his tweeting later on, that’s when everything went downhill
Porencephaly@reddit
Acceleration was not really the problematic claim. It was absurd range and weight.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
I mentioned the range wasn’t really doable, did they ever quote a weight requirement?
Porencephaly@reddit
I don't know if it was on the record but I remember hearing a weight figure mentioned back then that was significantly lighter than other EV drivetrains. They also made on-the-record nonsense claims about top speed.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
Both the nivera & aspark did 250mph with similar aero & 2020 era tech, the plaid can go 200mph, it doesn’t feel like that bold a claim. Their EVs in general aren’t too heavy.
The range was pretty egregious but the rest seemed pretty believable, especially considering the demo they were giving. Tesla was also pretty good at delivering promises back when it was announced.
In retrospect it seems like an awful idea but at that time the pre-order didn’t look that bad, you can take a look at posts on this sub from back then at sentiment was pretty positive.
Porencephaly@reddit
It’s the combo of putting all these features in one car that makes it absurd, I need you guys to understand that. You can’t say “well the Nevera can do 250 and the McMurtry Speirling is lightweight and the Plaid does 0-60 under 2s therefore Tesla wasn’t too outrageous with their claims.”
hi_im_bored13@reddit
And in retrospect that’s absolutely the case, but in 2017 where you had tesla delivering on expectations for their performance models the years before, a very compelling demo, and with everyone expecting breakthroughs in the years to follow, the preorder didn’t seem that crazy
That was the tipping point where tesla stopped delivering on promises
dnyank1@reddit
maybe that's when your eyes opened but... nah they've been full of shit and half-delivering from the start
hi_im_bored13@reddit
Hardware-wise they were delivering with the model s/x and associated performance models, he only started to spout FSD-nonsense on cross country travel & egregious range to be possible in 2018/2019
dnyank1@reddit
They've wiped their old blog, but, no. I distinctly remember back in 2012, 2014 there were plenty of fantastical claims from their camp.
And remember the whole Solar boondoggle? That was all concurring - 2016 was when Solarcity finally got absorbed under Tesla but... nothing Elon promised over there came true either.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
Yes, as I said it's something they promised would be possible in two years from '16, i.e. 2018, they started to fail on promises egregiously around that time. 2017 was just before they fell off the deep end.
As seen in the reddit link for the announcement, even here sentiment was pretty positive. My only point is with the demo they showed putting down a deposit on that car wasn't that crazy at the time.
Porencephaly@reddit
Plaid didn’t even come close to their claims.
EternalMage321@reddit
You mean to say that you don't think it will have cold fusion rockets? INCONCEIVABLE.
Oh_ffs_seriously@reddit
Cold-gas thrusters, IIRC, which is a fancy name for a can of compressed air.
lowstrife@reddit
Context matters, it was announced in 2017. The underperformance and extraordinary claims were only just starting to be realized and the company was in a much different place.
What was wrong with EV tech 7 years ago? I don't think there is a technical limitation at all to what they wanted to do, other than maybe the stupid thruster idea.
Porencephaly@reddit
How did I manage without even owning an EV?
You think in 2017 there was any EV drivetrain, much less a Model S, with 620 miles of range that could do 0-60 in 1.9sec and a top speed of 250mph? lololol that doesn't even exist in 2024.
lowstrife@reddit
It was supposed to come out in 2017. It was supposed to be 2020.
250mph will never be a normal production car, that I agree with that's horseshit. Most of the supercars are limited in the 200-220ish range for normal tires and such.
1.9 seconds ( rounded down, with rollout, with lowering etc etc) was done by the Model S, while at the limit of physics, totally plausible for the Roadster.
As for the 620 miles of range... Model S gets 400 miles. Would they able to get another +50% ontop of that just from a vehicle with a much smaller frontal area and lighter weight, given the same battery? No, but I certainly could see it into the 500's.
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LoudBoulder@reddit
They gave a lot of roadsters away as well on referrals etc. I know a guy with 2 free roadster vouchers
hi_im_bored13@reddit
I have a free voucher as well, I highly highly doubt they will ever fulfill that, assuming the car ever arrives in the first place.
Shame because I was looking forward to it and would have bought one for full price had it released. I really really like the original roadster.
WingerRules@reddit
Tesla purchase agreement says you give up class action rights and ability to sue them in regular court. Probably how they've avoided a bunch of shit.
Rage_Your_Dream@reddit
You see your honor, he signed a contract to agree to being my slave!
BurningToasterEST@reddit
Things like this only work in the US. In the EU contracts like these are void because the are against the law. US law is fucked.
ireadittoook@reddit
Things like what? What contract would be void and what does that have to do with anything? How does that help some moron who paid for a car that doesn’t exist?
Gwolf4@reddit
Guys, repeat after me "No contract can make me give up my rights"
Over_engineered81@reddit
I’m not a lawyer, but that sounds like it would be very difficult to actually enforce. Contracts aren’t really enforceable if the terms are illegal.
Racer013@reddit
This is very standard contract language these days, unfortunately. Arbitration is absolutely upheld by the court system, and you can definitely sign away your right to pursue a class action. It's extremely anti-consumer, but it's being used in everything from purchase agreements and EULAs, all the way to employment contracts.
WiseCookie69@reddit
Wasn't there just recently a case where someone's wife died from an allergic reaction at a Disney restaurant and he couldn't sue them, because his underage daughter signed away his rights when she signed up for a trial of Disney+ years ago?
Racer013@reddit
Yes, but there are a few extra things there worth noting. First is that it was the husband who signed up for Disney+, not a daughter. Not that it matters, because in the case of wrongful death suits the suit is being represented by the living party on behalf of the deceased, it's not the living party who is presenting the case. Second is that after all the backlash that resulted from the press getting wind of the situation Disney decided to drop the request for the case to be dismissed. Third is a minor thing, but still relevant, and honestly is where the whole thing becomes very convoluted, but it wasn't that he couldn't file a suit, it's that he couldn't file a suit in a public court, and the nature of the request for dismissal was on the grounds that the husband had signed up for Disney+ which had an arbitration clause in the TOS, which required that any legal action taken against Disney would need to be done in a private court. Where it gets murky is the way the defendants were connected to Disney, because the restaurant itself was not owned by Disney, but it was in a Disney park, and the online menu the couple had used to gather information about the restaurant beforehand was operated on a Disney website. Legal Eagle on YouTube did a pretty good job providing an overview of the whole thing, which I suggest you check out, and he goes over that whole part in much more detail.
techno156@reddit
That one is a bit more complicated. Here's a video that might explain things better.
He sued Disney under the argument that the information on their website did not properly indicate that the restaurant's menu had allergens (the restaurant is on Disney property, but is separate).
Disney argued that the lawsuit didn't apply to them because the information was on their website, and therefore should go through arbitration, since the Disney+ agreement requires arbitration for website disputes.
Though the thing is moot in the end, since Disney waived arbitration after the whole thing blew up into a PR scandal.
tomatoblade@reddit
Well shit
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killshelter@reddit
Yeah anti litigation clauses I think can be easily defeated and if you have a quarter million to drop on vaporware, you probably already have a good lawyer.
QLDZDR@reddit
What type of currency is that...
Pilx@reddit
Thing is with a lower ($100) preorder they can acquire many more deposits which Musk can then run to the banks with and use as leverage for low interest loans with much less accountability to the consumer
ProAmCanAm@reddit
Some of those people can calculate “opportunity cost” and are doing the math on how much that $50k (or $250k) would be today if it’d been invested.
I’d be livid, and have some sympathy for these folks—Elon wasn’t an obvious piece of shit back then
Ghost17088@reddit
Yeah, but spending $50k on a car that didn’t exist was still monumentally stupid back then.
Ajk337@reddit
Was available for pre-order in November 2017
$50k in total global index fund would be $82k $50k in US index fund would be $108k $50k in tech index fund (probably what anybody who pre-ordered that fast would have been in) would be $182k
ProAmCanAm@reddit
Some of would’ve been in shit like ARKK…so at least they’re ok
Ajk337@reddit
Even with ARKK, the $50k would be $67k today :-(
ProAmCanAm@reddit
Cathy just needs a few more weeks to remedy that
Dumb_Nuts@reddit
Now do $50k in TSLA lol
AdCareless9063@reddit
Yeah, not sure how that was the top comment. Porsche for example is an SUV company, it's the vast majority of what they produce. High end sports cars are always sold in low numbers.
The roadster was announced in 2017, pre-Model 3. 620 mile range, 1.9 to 60, 250 mph. They probably delayed it because all of that was unachievable and they have no shame in making false promises.
allUsernamesAreTKen@reddit
Also took most of the resources and laid them off to give himself a 65 payday
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fnkdrspok@reddit
He doesn’t care about his consumers. Why people purchase his products is beyond me.
AllShallParrish@reddit
Wild that the Cybertruck can be announced, take years to actually come out, and flop, before the new roadster. Elon opened his mouth way too much for that vehicle and it will NEVER hit the claims he’s made for it - like nearly everything else he talks about
FrostyFire@reddit
The CT became the best selling EV truck months ago and they’ve sold at least 27,000 of them for $112k average, define flop?
Think_Perspective382@reddit
its a hunk of junk that solely exists for rich people to try and look "cool" but they end up being the village idiot lmao.
FrostyFire@reddit
Ok. So you’re telling me people bought them and still think it’s a flop?
Think_Perspective382@reddit
bro lacks critical thinking. Its a horrible vehicle that was solely bought due to hype and the uniqueness of it by weird tech bros and local douchebags. Plenty of terrible cars have high sales numbers.
FrostyFire@reddit
At $112k average? Do tell.
Think_Perspective382@reddit
yea its a dumb car for dumb rich people. Not a difficult concept to grasp. Still a shit truck.
FrostyFire@reddit
Still waiting for you to show us terrible cars in that price range with that many sales.
Think_Perspective382@reddit
The Delorean sold for similar and while its a classic today due to Back to the Future, the car is overall pretty bad. Again, sales ≠ good vehicle. Can you actually acknowledge the faults of the CT or you gonna keep glazing?
FrostyFire@reddit
The CT has many faults, but Reddit also told me it’ll never make production, then after that happened it’ll never sell, then they recalled 3k of them and said it was a flop and they’ll never sell anymore of them, then they recalled 11k of them and said the same thing, then they “recalled” 27k over the air and said the same thing.
Think_Perspective382@reddit
redditors say dumb shit all the time but im not the one saying those things dude. I just said its a piece of shit which it is.
FrostyFire@reddit
The guy you agreed with also claimed it was a flop.
Dyep1@reddit
Its always the people with no preorder that complain the hardest 😂
Plazmatron44@reddit
A fool and his money....
cardizemdealer@reddit
Stop giving Elon musk money.
TempleSquare@reddit
Signed out of Twitter in 2022. Haven't bought a Tesla (can't anyways). Chose T-Mobile home Internet (cellular) over Starlink.
I'm doing my part.
twinbee@reddit
Starlink is lightyears ahead of the competition for rural and even semi-rural locations.
cardizemdealer@reddit
I can say thinking x is okay if you like Nazis.
twinbee@reddit
No, most decent people like his views. Reddit is an echochamber, but the average population isn't like that.
cardizemdealer@reddit
There's nothing decent about his views. He's a sad, pathetic asshole that only appeals to those like him.
twinbee@reddit
On the contrary, most of his views are to be admired. He's a visionary who looks further than most people.
cardizemdealer@reddit
His own children won't talk to him. Only a loser would look to him to be admired.
twinbee@reddit
One won't. Not sure about the others.
Asentry_@reddit
Convenient for you to only believe elon and anyone who supports him and disregard anything against him. It's pretty sad seeing you be so blindly supportive of him. When he crashes down what will you do
Datdarnpupper@reddit
Its insane. Mf has dedicated hours of his day over the last few years to obsessively glazing musk.
You often only see this kind of obsessive behaviour in cults
Asentry_@reddit
He's seriously delusional
probsdriving@reddit
Everyone point and laugh at the guy who actually calls it X.
twinbee@reddit
So most of the media/news sites too?
probsdriving@reddit
Quick question: you think it's a healthy, productive thing to post about Elon Musk on a daily basis for years?
If you had to explain your reddit history to say, an important leadership figure, do you think they'd consider you a well rounded, well adjusted person?
Curious!
twinbee@reddit
What you say almost sounds reasonable until you realize there are THOUSANDS times more people on this whole site who do nothing but waste time post hate against him and his companies. In comparison, I'm a tiny little flicker of light in that vast darkness.
probsdriving@reddit
Not answering the question.
Do you think your relationship with Elon musk and his companies is a healthy one? Do you think there are more productive things you could be doing with your time?
If you had to show your reddit history to someone you respect, do you think they’d find this cause noble as well?
twinbee@reddit
I care about the future and stuff like freedom of speech a lot, and I think supporting Elon and his ventures will help towards that future. I also happen to be naturally interested in all this future stuff, so reading that content is fun for me anyway, and posting about it is just a little bit more effort on top so that others can enjoy it too.
Look at my pinned posts. I like to try and help people. The tire comparison is insane in its scope and it helped a lot of people at the time choose tires for their Model 3. I'm in the middle of doing an update to that. It will help me as well, as I need new tires.
Yes to be honest, I do, or at the least, they wouldn't be bothered one way or another.
probsdriving@reddit
I strongly believe you can be helpful on Reddit without making posts, comments, and arguments about one topic nearly every single day for years.
If any therapist or psychologist looked through your profile I guarantee it would raise eyebrows. You clearly have an unhealthy obsession with Elon Musk.
Best of luck.
twinbee@reddit
The fight for free speech and against extinctionism is just that important. Sorry you can't see that.
If you met me in real life, you'd never know, so you can quit the judgemental psychoanalysis crap.
probsdriving@reddit
Do you think posting on, let me honest here, mostly echo chambers like r/elonmusk accomplish this fight for free speech?
twinbee@reddit
Most people on elonmusk are anti-Elon, so yes it's kind of an echo chamber, but in the opposite direction to what you're thinking of.
Datdarnpupper@reddit
Lmao with how you desperately silence people on that sub you'll be the only motherfucker that posts there soon enough.
twinbee@reddit
Never censored or banned anyone personally. Not my style.
Datdarnpupper@reddit
Lol suure. Just a lot of people you seem to disagree with mysteriously get their comments removed after you replied.
r/elonmusk is a hellhole of censorship, which for fuckers that worship the "free speech absolutist" is hilariously fucking fitting.
twinbee@reddit
Since I became a mod I removed about 3 comments only because they were site wide breaking. Really not bothered if you don't believe me.
Datdarnpupper@reddit
Wasting your time. Motherfucker is like the arch elon cultist on reddit, spends 99% of his time glazing the apartheid nepo baby, or silencing criticism on r/elonmusk
Burntarchitect@reddit
I really wish I could upvote this more than once.
ver1kk@reddit
How is it a scam? Can't you get the money back at any time?
activedusk@reddit
Like a mass market fuel cell car?
And that makes you mad because it's a lucrative new market? Both autonomous cars and bipedal robots stand to open new markets, just as energy storage did previously and is now booming. One or both could fail due to lack of progress in the basic technology, but it doesn't mean companies won't invest in research and development for the ultimate goal of commercializing such products. When Waymo or Boston Dynamics and others do it, it's forward thinking, when Tesla does it all the haters can't stop foaming at the mouth.
Oberst_Reziik@reddit
The Numbers Elon presented 7 years ago were and remain impossible, tesla will go bankrupt before the Roadster 2 comes out
Gold_Pangolin_Dragon@reddit
Title should just be "So did Tesla basically scam everyone ~~who pre-ordered the Telsa Roadster~~?"
RiftHunter4@reddit
When haven't they? Elon just takes money and does whatever he wants.
snot3353@reddit
I’d argue the model S/X/3/Y have been solid products. I’m not sure how you argue they are a scam.
Some of the recent stuff though is ridiculous. Also the fact he’s been promising FSD for like 8 years and they still clearly aren’t close.
RiftHunter4@reddit
Tesla is just piss poor when it comes to delivering. They announced the Cybertruck and then got beat by Ford, Rivian, and GM to the punch before releasing it as a very mid EV.
The roadster they once showed off is now so old that it's no longer relevant. The Semi was announced in 2017 and just barely went into production in 2022 with volume. Production not starting until 2026, nearly a decade after the vehicle was announced. And FSD is simply vaporware.
It's just a scam to put down a deposit for a Tesla IMO. You pay some money now and several years later you'll get an OK EV with shitty panel gaps, poor materials, and rushed engineering.
activedusk@reddit
https://www.theverge.com/2024/9/18/24247985/tesla-cybertruck-july-2024-sales-deliveries-match-all-ev-trucks
It mattered for a few seconds.
m4d_jad@reddit
I have first hard knowledge to say that they are indeed still currently working on it in unmarked buildings in Southern California
DeLoreanAirlines@reddit
I’m still waiting on my copy of StarCraft: Ghost
HHcougar@reddit
I realized a few years ago that a FPS StarCraft game already exists.
It's called Halo
rex8499@reddit
Hmmmm the flood aren't a very good stand in for Zerg, but I can see some of the similarities.
HHcougar@reddit
A monstrous galactic threat expands, consuming and assimilating the biomass of civilizations in their way, led by a collective consciousness.
The parallels are very, very strong. If Halo ended up being an RTS, as originally planned, it would probably be seen as a StarCraft clone.
hundredjono@reddit
I'm one of the few Starcraft nerds in this sub. Starcraft is Blizzard's answer to Warhammer 40k since they originally wanted to create a game for that franchise but didn't.
Starcraft is far closer to Warhammer 40k than to Halo.
forzagoodofdapeople@reddit
I'll play it once I've finished with Titan.
Ihathreturd@reddit
How many heads will that go over?
hollywood2311@reddit
Yes, but they should have known better with Musk’s track record of over promising and under delivering…and being years late in doing so.
Productpusher@reddit
I would bet they are not putting that much resources to robots and taxis as people think . 100% both still side projects close to a decade away
TheBigAndy@reddit
I think it all hinges on unsupervised FSD, which they clearly are dumping resources into.
Skensis@reddit
Yeah, a lot of Tesla market value is on assuming they will crack self driving cars and the car you bought five years ago can taxi around at night and make you money.
xstreamReddit@reddit
Yet Waymo is valued way less while doing it better
twinbee@reddit
They're restricted to only certain areas.
xstreamReddit@reddit
Sure but those areas are cities. If it works there it's easily scalable.
HalfFrozenSpeedos@reddit
has anyone thought this through?
They do know what people DO in cabs? puke, piss themselves (and worse), have sex, do drugs and more...
You REALLY want to go out to your shiny new car in the morning to find the interior heavily soil, drug paraphernalia strewn around, various bits stripped off (or the whole car awol and already stripped down) ?
The concept doesn't even stand up to cursory pondering...
samwisetg@reddit
And that’s what people do with a stranger driving the car. Imagine the shit they’d do if they were alone instead.
HalfFrozenSpeedos@reddit
As someone told me - don't ever buy a used cab or cop car or if you do....dump the interior as frankly what people do especially on the backseats....means you REALLY wouldn't want to sit there....
hi_im_bored13@reddit
I’d assume that’s the minority of rides, not the majority. Otherwise uber drivers wouldn’t exist.
HalfFrozenSpeedos@reddit
Well for what they are admitting to so far. Just wait until someone finds a way to mess with it....
samwisetg@reddit
And yet a judge just ruled that no reasonable investor would believe Musk’s statements about FSD.
Occhrome@reddit
that was always silly but now this guy coming out with a whole different product when the old one was supposed to do what this one is doing. now this is hilarious.
Corsair4@reddit
So many resources they are only half a decade or more behind their own timelines, and with significantly less progress than other companies in the field.
But this time the timeline is correct! Pinky swear, and write a 5 figure check.
3pinephrin3@reddit
I think they are ahead of everyone for a vision only system. However it’s dubious whether such a system will ever be reliable enough to work
Corsair4@reddit
Being first in a field of 1 is not terribly impressive, especially when the criteria for that field are limitations that Tesla has placed on themselves.
Literally nothing stopping them from using a variety of sensors like more accomplished companies are doing.
igiverealygoodadvice@reddit
Field of 1? Tons of other manufacturers use vision based systems that run things like Mobileye software - Cadillac, Subaru etc
avoidhugeships@reddit
Are they? They can not even get emergency braking to work right. They seem far behind just about everyone.
mini4x@reddit
Something people paid good money for already even though it really doesn't exist...
nucleartime@reddit
Then what are they putting resources into? We haven't seen shit about the Model 2. They still don't have a proper 3 row car either.
HandyMan131@reddit
Yep. Last time the “robots” were people in suits. This time they were obviously remote controlled. I’d say they are a decade behind Boston dynamics.
And the robo taxi really isn’t anything but their existing FSD (which we all know isn’t ahead of the competition)in a concept car skin with weird painted tires.
mustangfan12@reddit
It's probably not going to happen for a long time, battery technology isn't good enough yet for a roadster
longgamma@reddit
Anyone who wants a fast EV already can buy the Taycan or the Rimac on the higher end. Lucid sapphire is among the fastest EVs you can buy. Why would anyone wait for the Tesla roadster ? Tesla performance cars don’t handle well and are just great for drag racing.
gbeezy007@reddit
Id imagine a ground up engineered 2 door sports car for that price would be much more then for drag racing like current Teslas.
I'm somewhat defending the idea But I'm also at this point a Tesla hater a bit. Just wild how many lies and false promises they have done at this point.
Id love to see something like the ionic N and a 2 door EV
tetsmon@reddit
On that front, I'm cautiously excited for the Dodge Charger EV. though it's a 2-in-1 with the sedan, the R-wing is a clever design and the fake external noise is a fun idea. I'm just worried about the chrysler reliability and driving experience, as I recall hatingthe Jeep SUV I drove as a rental.
skyshock21@reddit
The Porsche Cayman and Boxster EVs are going to be released next year. I can’t wait.
Shirvo@reddit
Or the roadster that already exists, the MG Cyberster. $70k 500hp. The catch is that you can't get it in the USA, but it sells in UK and Europe.
IsamuAlvaDyson@reddit
I've been saying this for years
Tesla is reliant on people preordering future vehicles to fund Tesla current vehicles
FrostyFire@reddit
Wait until you learn how the stock market works. Companies IPO to raise money to grow their business, since the beginning of time.
nucleartime@reddit
There's a huge difference between the highly regulated process of taking investor money and collecting consumer preorders for vaporware. See: kickstarter.
FrostyFire@reddit
Tell me you have no clue about Securities disclosure without telling me.
HalfFrozenSpeedos@reddit
so a pyramid scheme then?
BisquickNinja@reddit
Calm down. It only took them 10 years to make the Cyber truck real ... /s
If the same timeline is there, it's probably going to take him another decade to produce it. Even if it is a parts bin special.
moonRekt@reddit
Doesn’t it only cost like $100 to “order”? Seems most of the people who pay these deposits to get the first rare off Teslas could care less how long it takes
whatsapprocky@reddit (OP)
It’s a $50k deposit. Definitely enough money to make one consider getting a completely different, new car entirely
moonRekt@reddit
Crazy I know someone who preordered one but they wont be missing the money. That’s crazy though, I wouldn’t. You know a lot of those preorders are people happily waiting to turn a profit
Random_Introvert_42@reddit
Wait people preordered a *ROADSTER* after being shown a coupé?
LCHMD@reddit
That’s all they do all the time.
bubonis@reddit
What’s really going on is, you chose to believe something that Elon Musk said despite all the evidence.
TheCanadianShield99@reddit
Welcome to the land of Musk. No questions please.
Sobsis@reddit
They will have to get the roadster right in order to secure any kind of real legacy in automotive history. I imagine they're taking their time to get it correct
Jedi_I_am_not@reddit
“so did Tesla basically scam everyone “ . Let stop right there, answer yes.
Greedy_Confection491@reddit
Didn't the preorder have some kind of date of delivering? People just gave money to Elon under the promise of recovering the car someday?
jasnstu@reddit
The Roadster announcement was what made me cancel my preorder on a Model 3. It was clear then that Leon had no idea what he was doing with Tesla, and he hasn’t delivered on any promises since.
bwoah_gimmethedrink@reddit
It's typical Tesla, lots of loud announcements to improve the value of the company, but many of those ideas won't end up being what was promised. What's good is this won't last forever. More and more people will stop reacting react the way Musk wants them to and will wait until the product has actually hit the market (and is good).
ireadittoook@reddit
I feel scammed just knowing there are people dumb enough to pay for a car that is not even in production. But then again, people have actually paid money for the cyber truck, so I guess you can’t put anything past humans…Americans specifically.
xjosh666@reddit
Tesla is in the hype business.
Booplympics@reddit
I was trying to explain to my friend how Tesla is crazy overvalued the other day. Public perception is so skewed. "Its not a car company. Its a tech company!" And yet they are no further along than any other car company in full self driving. /facepalm.
MachKeinDramaLlama@reddit
They are significantly behind, because they went down the route of doing it only with cameras, which so far seems like it won’t work.
Blacklistedb@reddit
Tech company with car margins lol
Spidaaman@reddit
crevettexbenite@reddit
What hurts more is the fact in came to ligth 7 YEARS AGO.
humdizzle@reddit
its to get money. its a 50k deposit to reserve one. a ton of people literally just gave him an interest free loan. and then they can go to a bank like 'hey we have all these deposits, i need loan money to build these'.
Fluxoteen@reddit
Richest men in the world shouldn't be allowed to take loans
MrEs@reddit
Don't need the last 5 words of that sentence bro
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
Making a halo exotic car isn’t that easy, Mercedes has taken near 6 years to make their AMG One in production.
I don’t surprise Tesla been same case, and I expect that they would take more years.
TrippyVision@reddit
Mercedes AMG ONE is leagues more complicated than the Tesla Roadster. It made an F1 engine road compliant, advanced active aero, nicer/intricate interior and exterior. Also, both cars were unveiled in the same year (2017). Not to mention, EV’s are supposedly easier to develop because it has less moving parts.
No-Definition1474@reddit
Oh BS. It's not much harder to make one car over another. The design goals are different per different vehicle but the process is the same. It isn't some kind of magic to design and build a small production performance car. The formula was written long long long ago.
mini4x@reddit
all they need to do is take the Model S, an make a Tesla-esque BMW 6 series looking body for it and, bam $200k roadster ..
l0ur3nz0@reddit
Where is FSD? OPTIMUS? SEMI? 35K M3? 39K CYBERTRUCK? ROBOTAXI? ROADSTER? BATTERY CHANGING? The answer is, always, next year.
JurboVolvo@reddit
Again 😂 when will people learn
SparklingPseudonym@reddit
Y.E.S.
truthdoctor@reddit
The roadster is hiding backstage along with the $40k CT, the Model 2, solar roofs and the fully autonomous driving software that was due in 2017.
xdr01@reddit
yes, the roadster was an intrest free loan of Musk.
Looking at stock price, think investors finally seeing it all as BS.
Occhrome@reddit
nah, price is still way too high.
sir_lotad@reddit
Everyone who placed a preorder basically gave them an interest free loan
Occhrome@reddit
musk has been bullshitting people with every one of his projects for years and years. i just cant understand how people cant see through his bullshit.
surprised that he delivered the cyber truck but it is nothing what they claimed it would be. no exoskeleton, off road ability or range that was promised.
Makaloff95@reddit
Tesla have pretty much always been a scam and empty promises, not to mention its way overpriced for the quality you get.
nolongerbanned99@reddit
Not only them…scamming all customers. Pos car, shittily made, and low feature count.
sicilian504@reddit
"We're about a year away from it being released" - Elon probably.
no_f-s_given@reddit
Yeah it's a scam imo like so many other things from Enron Musk
cars_bot@reddit
There are now 5 new threads about 'Tesla' in the past 24 hours:
https://reddit.com/r/cars/comments/1g18ni5/the_tesla_robotaxi_is_finally_here_yours_for_30k/
https://reddit.com/r/cars/comments/1g132r4/motortrend_tesla_robovan_everything_we_know_about/
https://reddit.com/r/cars/comments/1g11ox0/tesla_robotaxi_is_a_driverless_car_that_will_cost/
https://reddit.com/r/cars/comments/1g11ki8/tesla_cybercab_is_a_robotaxi_youll_be_able_to_buy/
(In addition to this one.)
Has this new topic already been covered recently?
p3dal@reddit
Well yeah, the product announcement was what, yesterday? People are talking about it, but r/cars hates Tesla so all those threads are at 0 upvotes.
sonrisa_medusa@reddit
I don't think the CyberCab really fits the purpose of this subreddit. This isn't the r/publictransportation or r/rideshare. You can't drive the thing. You can't buy it. You can't own it as your personal vehicle. I'd almost say it's not a car.
p3dal@reddit
That's fair, but I think it looks sweet. Not quite as cool as the Hyundai N Vision 74, but I love all of these 80's inspired concept cars coming out.
yudha98@reddit
Chinese-built MG already previewed, built, revealed and sold Cyberster before second generation Tesla Roadster was even built 🤣🤣🤣
Twin_Turbo@reddit
unfortunately looks like /r/cars is going down the political shitter, sad
xxPHILdaAGONYxx@reddit
There's got to be a few out there. I see one parked in the work garage every so often
Senior_Ad282@reddit
Haha no you don’t. Maybe the original.
xxPHILdaAGONYxx@reddit
Sorry I didn't know there was more than 1 I guess lol. It's a tesla and says roadster on the back
Senior_Ad282@reddit
Yeah that’s maybe the OG lotus Elise with a battery pack version.
mini4x@reddit
the electrified lotus one.
BeingRightAmbassador@reddit
I just really think it's funny that I would trust literally a random brand new company's pre-order over Tesla.
Like I genuinely don't believe ANY official Tesla stats, numbers, or figures, it's all just bullshit from top to bottom.
LaneMeyersLostSki@reddit
Anyone who buys a Tesla now or has for about the last two years deserves exactly what they get. They've sipped the dumb MAGAt Kool-Aid and have decided that cult is more important than quality. Let them all go broke.
mini4x@reddit
Same as they scammed the preorders of every car they released so far.. All you people are doing is giving musk a decade long interest free loan.
LoPanDidNothingWrong@reddit
Yes
MGPS@reddit
Don’t worry it’s going to have jet blasters and everything. My girlfriend is testing a prototype but she goes to a different school.
HourTemperature3@reddit
In Canada
Buckus93@reddit
You wouldn't know her.
LebronBackinCLE@reddit
I think they’re overwhelmed by the number of referral reward roadsters they owe folks!
TSLAog@reddit
Sold the plans to Lucid for more ketamine
Trades46@reddit
If one has to list out all the promises Tesla broke, it would be enough to write about on the length of an academic paper.
A_Coin_Toss_Friendo@reddit
The entire company is a scam. Yes.
munhuu7@reddit
They are racing against chinese on who'll be the first to create perfect driverless taxi it's next big thing to increase the value of tesla. Which could turn him first trillionare. I think he's in rush because he is getting old and his mars mission is fading.
theathene@reddit
Ummm, probably yes
pele4096@reddit
HODL!
Apes Strong together!
SyntheticOne@reddit
MG did it first AND it's not a bad car. Splendid looks wise.
rhfnoshr@reddit
I think tesla hq should get the belgrade treatment. At night of course so no one gets hurt
AE74Fj73@reddit
I would imagine with performance numbers their current models offer there's no point in choosing a roadster over the sedan
EICONTRACT@reddit
I think they’ll release it but call it something else so they don’t have to honor the free ones
Final_Winter7524@reddit
Tesla scammed everyone who has bought anything from them, period.
Mysterious-Lick@reddit
Yes
Agriez9@reddit
It's not happening
didimao0072000@reddit
Musk scammed everyone that bought FSD and Model 3s with the expectations that they were going to be money earning robo-taxis. When Elon Musk claimed that Tesla vehicles would be capable of functioning as robo-taxis, allowing owners to earn money while they slept, it created enormous excitement. Many rushed to purchase FSD or Model 3 vehicles based on the assumption that they were investing in cutting-edge technology that would soon be fully autonomous. We all know the robo-taxi capabilities were BS and the entire event seemed more like a distraction from the real issue: thousands of Tesla customers had paid significant sums—often in the thousands of dollars—for FSD but have yet to receive the full functionality they were promised. To make matters worse, many of these buyers no longer own their Teslas. Some may have sold their vehicles, while others have lost them in accidents.
nameyname12345@reddit
No no of course not that would be illegal. What they did was charge for the feeling of owning one. Sure maybe they also promised you that you WOULD get one too but look at my new truck and can and robomen!
xlb250@reddit
You can get a refund
lowstrife@reddit
It was originally called the 2020 Roadster.
MrEwThatsGross@reddit
Tesla got a 0 interest loan on a concept they sold to customers that hasnt been delivered or developed. This isnt a scam just like a pyramid scheme isnt a scam. You can argue semantics all you want but this is a gray area of shadiness and misleading product promises.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
Especially when they had people dropping 50k (or 250k!) on a pre-order. Folks just gave tesla millions in interest free loans.
The cybertruck delay & price changes were bad but big difference between a 100$ refundable deposit and six figures on a car that doesn’t exist
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