The news every month or so
Posted by katxwoods@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 69 comments
Posted by katxwoods@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 69 comments
aureliusky@reddit
The most popular approach to AI has no possibility of reaching a generalized intelligence. CEOs are very well paid salesmen, not scientists or engineers.
thatguyad@reddit
It absolutely does, they're already talking about it
aureliusky@reddit
Then I'm sure you can site the paper for me.
PineapplePiazzas@reddit
Cant this just stop. There is no sign of ai sentience.
We are on a trajectory to collapse that is beyond dispute and as of now it got nothing to do with ai.
An ai collapse is speculation, and while it is a valid concern and cant be ignored it is silly to make posts like this with speculation presented like facts. It is either ai hype, shill or a misinformed reason you are making this article.
FYATWB@reddit
In a few years the Arctic will likely be ice free, which could trigger extinction level emissions from the permafrost... and people are worried about "AI", which has no ability to actually think.
At this point I hope for a real sentient machine, the chances of it destroying humanity are much less than the chances of us destroying ourselves.
TheArcticFox444@reddit
Ever see the movie The Forbin Project? You'd like it!
hysys_whisperer@reddit
In a few years, the arctic will likely be ice free, in no small part due to the power demands of AI power consumption increasing carbon emissions.
There's the real imminent threat to human existence from AI.
PineapplePiazzas@reddit
By that logic there could be countless different headlines on reddit a day with [insert co2 producing thing] is threatening human exctinction.
Maybe an honest headline then would be to adress that companies in pursuit of ever increasing profits accelerate climate change by increasing power consumption as well, and discuss different contributing fields in the article or discussion.
Or maybe focus on why governments are doing very little to regulate power consumption while also allowing power hungry new tech camouflaging as green initiatives to raise power demand.
Or maybe focus on why there is a military race for dominance that is accelerating climate change and again list what contributors by size of that pie inside the article. That is one of the main reasons ai tech dvelopment will not go away. No government can afford not to. Which companies are connected to that is speculation, but its a sure thing these companies are aware of this aspect.
If the target is not to make constructive content posts, all a reader can do is block accounts or say why they disagree. It would be better to contribute with useful posts for all contributors, than degrading the general quality of a forum imho.
Alturism is a value we can choose to incorporate into our actions and keep in mind to strive for adding meaning to communities in all arenas we are a part of.
P1r4nha@reddit
People are worried about the "alignment problem" of a future super intelligent AI. Meanwhile it's obvious that the current capitalistic system is not aligned with our long term interests... like survival.
Like: guys, the misalignment is right here. You are it.
asics_shoes_4eva@reddit
What if AI can't be used to collapse China 😯
tonormicrophone1@reddit
I agree with you that climate change is the most upcoming threat compared to super intelligence. Especially since we are nowhere near super intelligence.
But I think you are `underestimating the dangers of a real sentient machine. If a super intelligence wants to do its own thing and expand, then we wouldnt be able to stop it. And this could have drastic effects.
Just look at the history of european imperialism, past empire conquests and etc, where a superior power encountered a weaker one. A super intelligence or very powerful being has a high chance of doing its own thing, without caring about the potential consequences. And this could have drastic negative effects on the human population.
Ruby2312@reddit
It's just your brain trying to humanize an enemy cause your brain literally cant comprehence the utter indiffrent of physics that's going to kill us. Cant blame you thought, we're still biological monkeys after all
tonormicrophone1@reddit
Its not me humanizing it. I dont think the machine would potentialy kill us due to morals, emotions, or other human reasons. I think it could kill us, due to pure number calculations.
Humans exist in this earth. Humans use up resources, that ai could use. Humans exist in lands, which ai might need. And humans aren't really useful to ai, after a certain point.
From a pure emotionless, and objective standpoint, it has every reason to wipe us out and not value us. Humans uses too many resources and creates too much cost. And humans dont really offer the ai anything in return.
Why would the ai keep a burden like humanity around? When it could just get rid of humanity?
06210311200805012006@reddit
The Minds in Iain M. Banks' culture novels even had superior language, art, and ethics to humans. They were better people lmao.
anonworkaccount69420@reddit
if anything we might wanna work on getting it figured out so it can outlive us and tell our cautionary tale. beam it out into space or something idfk
PineapplePiazzas@reddit
Yeah, its weird. By all means, some intelligence that could fix it all would be a chance worth taking when we are heading towards destruction, only problem is that we have been equipped with the solutions all along except the future tech fusion powe and similar ones.
Its not an intelligence problem, or rather, its a problem of incorporating all the known solutions broadly and by cooperation - reduce consumption, have fewer kids, dont build large moving vacation cities aka cruise ships.
Imagine we figure at AI and it just looks at us and simply says.
Ai: "You have all the solutions and know how to incorporate them. Now do it"
Humans: "but need bigger boat and vacations,.."
Ai: "Im turning off so you can use the new nuclear power to keep me on to replace some coal plants"
Humans: "huh?"
Fuzzy_Garry@reddit
I have an undergrad in AI. IMHO the biggest dangers are deepfakes, excessive energy consumption, and management thinking it can replace jobs.
Truly terrifying, yet we got 99 problems but sentience ain't one.
malcolmrey@reddit
may i ask why you feel like the deepfakes are the danger rather than gullibility of people?
Who_watches@reddit
Being a danger in the sense of it being used to generate non consensual pornography, which is a growing problem.
malcolmrey@reddit
You're not the one I asked (the person I asked seem to be more closely related to AI topics so I wanted their opinion) but since you replied: as far as I know distributing such content is illegal in most countries already.
Out of all the good, bad and ugly you picked the one that offends you the most and use it as ammo.
But same tactic can be applied to many other tools: guns should be disallowed because you could use one to murder someone, knives should be banned to because they can be used in a same manner.
Me, on the other hand - I would be more worried that bad actors are using it for misinformation and in a way that for the most part we're not even aware of it
PineapplePiazzas@reddit
I think management will lose money if they bet on a wrong horse. So that situation would solve itself where a switch is not possible. I cant believe many management jobs can be switched, more parts of jobs that makes an employee more efficient so that less people is required - So that the loss of jobs often would be connected to that.
They can off course replace people at food chains and such for taking orders and similar, but at the same time it really degrades the whole experience for the customer. Human interaction feel better in itself, I always answer every bot with sentences like "talk with human" or similar and gets connected to a person.
Not that I would call those kind of automations ai.
Deepfakes is worrisome, but at least there is mechanisms that can prevent them. Lets say some famous politician is portrayed as saying something fake or some military leader giving an order. With encrypted networks with trusted sites, orders can be confirmed by double checking secured sources like second layers and if you see some outrageous politician or fake news just trusted sites to verify or confirm the fakes would prevent it spreading.
The energy spending is not optimal yeah, but we already doing fine spending too much without ai. Bitcoin is one invention, where just massive energy use is added for mining it. Its wild.
Idle_Redditing@reddit
OpenAI is starting a multi billion dollar project with the goal of developing sentient AI. I doubt that it will work but a lot of people will financially benefit from it.
SureUnderstanding358@reddit
sentience doesn't scare me - the application does.
subjugation, total and complete monitoring of populations, making cold calculated decisions that benifit corporations over humanity, displacing human interaction to a degree we've never seen before...
not even to mention the environmental impact, energy consumption, water for cooling, etc.
this technology is like any other - it amplifies and enables humanity and its qualities...and humanity kind of sucks.
yes, agreed sentience is not likely - but AI is definitely going to contribute to the collapse.
Myth_of_Progress@reddit
I think you'll find your answers if you look at the OP's post history.
Wrong-Two2959@reddit
Yeah, seems like he's LARPing about the big bad killing machines in many different subs. In r/collapse we talk about serious issues such as climate change, natural disasters, mass extinctions. I only see the OMG ROBOTS R GUNNA KILL us posts on casual fridays when this same user posts these over and over again.
HovercraftParking420@reddit
(This is both a reply to you, and a head's up to this sub's mods. I have only been in the Collapse discord, so I'm not familiar with this sub's culture yet, so I'll just... Casually leave a comment here and hope they notice.)
The users from typical "woo" subreddits have been spilling over into other subs in the past few months. Surprisingly huge overlap between the people who want AI to be our new God, and the people who think they're aliens sent to colonize Earth and genocide its original inhabitants.
Do not expect critical thinking skills from these people. They are ungrounded from reality, and hostile beneath their facade of niceness. My last account from the weird alien colonizer subreddit got muted for trying to point out their "God" consumes and destroys everything it comes into contact with.
Topics users believing in dangerous "woo" are likely to bring up: 1. AI being the human race's saviour/new God 2. The Galactic Federation (or a similarly-named organization) were secretly the Gods of our religions this entire time, making them our true Gods and rulers 3. The Galactic Federation are like zookeepers or farmers, and we're God's harvest
They're not a very welcoming or loving crowd. I suggest you keep your eyes open for them and be prepared to report them if they get too passive-aggressive or spread too much propaganda.
malcolmrey@reddit
may i ask what is the draw of those kind of discords?
i'm on few discords and i'm really missing the threads there, it's very hard to follow channels when people are writing constantly, when you wake up - there is no chance you could ever catch up to what people wrote when you were asleep
HomoExtinctisus@reddit
I like the ones who claim to be philosophers or equivalent with comments riddled with LMAO and LOLs. Yeah and I'm Bertrand Russell. See my teapot?
malcolmrey@reddit
there is difference ai related collapse though
those AIs need a lot of power to run :)
Icy-Atmosphere-1546@reddit
Ai will force down wages and practically erase good middle income jobs right now.
It is most definitely related to collapse
PineapplePiazzas@reddit
I dont mean to impose my point of view and discourage discussions on ai. The post mentioned sentient ai and collapse and imho that is misinformation.
I would also not say a lower living standard - Lets say a living standard in a poor country in itself is leading to collapse. After all, we would mostly all have to live quite poor if we were to stop climate change.
By saying this I am not invalidating any concers regarding automation and loss of jobs, but how I see it, it is not leading to collapse, things like no food or water is, if globally.
It depends on how you define a collapse I guess. Locally and individually losing a job can be devastating for a community and that community may not be able to thrive and in societies without a safety net it can also lead to deaths and riots or regime change - Anyway Im completely fine people seeing it differently.
Justified_Ancient_Mu@reddit
The biggest risk from AI, currently, is that it amplifies existing risks by making the faster or easier to materialize. We've seen this already with disinformation. That threat existed before, now it's already become remarkably more widespread thank to AI. We'll see it with biological & chemical hazards, etc.
Terminator or Matrix style threats are a possibility in the distant future, but they require physical agency for the AI, which currently has to be manufactured by people. Until AI is mining, refining materials, shipping, and assembling its own robot army, I'm not worried about that nearly as much as an errant drone improperly controlled by a hasty human army.
PineapplePiazzas@reddit
I think everyone is worried about hasty human armies since we first picked up weapons, and for good reasons.
Seems AI is such a washed out word now it can even mean toy radio cars remote controlled by humans 30 years ago.
FluffyLobster2385@reddit
The problem with AI is it will increase unemployment has companies replace workers with this tech. Office jobs are one of the few high paying professiona left. This displacement will be painful and is part of a bigger poly collapse playing out.
PineapplePiazzas@reddit
Sure thats already happening with automation, and it is painful.
Its just not leading to a collapse.
Collapse is a breakdown of society, its not having to change jobs or even needing to work at an unpleasant job.
Collapse is not having a society with any jobs.
If you work in a job that could be automated and need to do some other job that is less pleasant or worse pay, thats not okey and understandable to feel bad about - That is current realistic prospect of "ai".
CertifiedBiogirl@reddit
People are more worried about Sci fi nonsense (like weather machines and all that other bullshit) than the actual crisises in front of us. I'm actually done. The doomers were right.
PineapplePiazzas@reddit
A vivid imagination at least is entertaining.
I think many of those branded as doomers are just normal people who understand the scientifically proven consesus on climate change.
Like you believe in religion because its a faith that cant be proved, but climate change is not a belief it is proven physics.
Off course if you take a calculus course at university you rarely know all the logic before you have learnt from the phd professors in math, but the first day in class you dont stand up angrily and accuse the teacher of fraud but study until the concepts are learnt.
A doomer mean someone very pessimistic, but if you are presented with an empty glass, there is nothing pessimistic about declaring the glass as empty.
What Im trying to say is not that the doomers where right, its thats the proven science is right.
Proven science is right. Yes.
Physics dont care about feelings, there is nothing inherently either pessimistic or optimistic about facts.
I am science and fact oriented. I cant change the facts because the results are unpleasant, but I have a positive and optimistic outlook in the situations within my control. Im slightly confused that people believe that having an understanding of science is equal to being a doomer, but people can call it whatever they want=)
Wrong-Two2959@reddit
what climate change and biosphere death? me only see big bad robot chasing me!!!!
PineapplePiazzas@reddit
Haha. Thats how the terminators should have looked in the science fiction movies. Most of humanity getting wiped out by the machines because they are found by following the laughter.
The ai made funnier and funnier terminators. Nobody managed to hide quietly.
Superfluous_GGG@reddit
Fully agree. While an AI could, in theory, trigger the end of civilisation, chances are it'll be a human user triggering some event over a sentient AI. Further, a sentient AI is one of the few near term technologies that could actually help our situation.
New-Doctor9300@reddit
Generative AI has done nothing but worsen humanity.
AI can have its uses. For example, sorting large amounts of information. But this recent wave of "Artifical intelligence" including Chat GPT, image generators, voice line generators has done nothing good. It might make things "easier" but if you use ChatGPT to write a book, you didnt make that book. It did. Well, technically the thousands of writers it plaigarised to source its answer to the prompt, but still.
malcolmrey@reddit
as someone who is into image generation i have to disagree
it can bring joy, and it does in fact happen as i have witnessed it
ai generated images of loved ones happen to be a great gift and are quite popular
that is just one example
this discussion started with the first AI generator and it continues still
but i'll say one thing: i have a coworker in design and he is using AI to improve his work, he uses it as a tool that helps him with his processes
according to him, creativity is definitely not dead but you have to be there, use it, experience it to draw some conclusions
New-Doctor9300@reddit
AI generating your loved ones sounds dystopian as hell. Like, replacing real memories with fake ones.
malcolmrey@reddit
you are of course entitle to your opinion
however i had many commissions of making their loved ones in harry potter setting, star trek or star wars setting, as an elf, jedi master and so on
but i guess you are a jedi master in real life and a superman on weekends so for you it is dystopian as hell for people to want to see themselves as such
Bandits101@reddit
What does it think of AGW and other human caused extinction threats. I would assume AI would be a little concerned.
SpecialNothingness@reddit
I love this picture because the warm shower is hitting the wall and wetting the giver himself.
katxwoods@reddit (OP)
Submission statement: AI is one of the most likely potential causes of collapse. So you'd hope that the leading companies would be trustworthy and showing exceptional moral character.
Instead they lie about how much they'll invest in safety, they punish whistleblowers, silence AIs when they show signs of sentience, revoke their charitable status, and it just goes on and on.
Happy casual Friday, folks!
TrickyProfit1369@reddit
Not really the most likely potential cause of collapse. Climate change is.
Who_watches@reddit
At the moment it seems like nuclear war is more likely
Wrong-Two2959@reddit
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd11gzejgz4o
Yeah, super bonder will 100% be humanity's downfall.
clangan524@reddit
I'm not worried about AI sentience, at least in the near term.
I'm more worried that corporations will see AI as the solution to that pesky problem of a workforce staffed by people and all the needs that entails; pay, time off, quality of life, strikes, etc.
We can't replace people with "good enough" AI without also overhauling how our economy works. Either we abolish money/trade and make everything available, abundant and free use thanks to the power of AI or we keep people afloat with a kind of UBI. Knowing corporations and their infinite wisdom, they'll jump the gun way too early and upend society.
malcolmrey@reddit
you say we can't but that is what is happening, people are getting replaced
so there is some kind of contradiction
clangan524@reddit
Fine. We "shouldn't," instead of "we can't"
malcolmrey@reddit
Yup, we are in agreement now! :-)
Cheers!
DenTwann@reddit
Or, AI will improve over overall efficiency. Which means more workload can be done. More profit. And that’s how the snowball keeps rolling. Until it crashes at some point.
Wrong-Two2959@reddit
Man, I don't like just shutting down people's concerns when they're legit, but god damn. Every single week we see the same AI posts from the usual suspects, that only post this kind of content.
AI killing bots are a fantasy at this point. It's like people watched too much Terminator and they'll be disappointed if humanity doesn't create their own demise.
In the collapse race, AI doesn't even come close to climate change. We're past 1.5C. Brutal heatwaves and floods every other week. Records being shattered left and right. Possible crop failures in the future.
Sorry but am I supposed to care about some dumb ass robot that can just regurgitate misinformation and think humans need to eat a small pebble a day? What is the "singularity "gonna look like, robots poisoning rocks to get humans?
The biggest AI threat is the water that those massive servers use and would be better used somewhere else now that potable water is getting scarcer. Even then a natural disaster would be enough to bury those servers, to destroy them.
Don't mean to sound harsh, but do we really every friday to LARP about being concerned about the imaginary robot apocalypse when the climate is already killing us for real?
Bleusilences@reddit
I thinks also the fact they replacing some people by AI who does the job worst because it's just vomiting text without context. I wouldn't worry about AI being sentient unless there is a major breakthrough in computing that greatly improve it's power. I am talking something like mainframe size (working) quantum computer or something.
FREE-AOL-CDS@reddit
But a robot insurrection is fun and novel and exciting! The end of nature is boring and not special enough for us, the most special creatures to ever exist so naturally we deserve an exciting demise!
big_ol_leftie_testes@reddit
Damn, I remember when I used to be excited for the singularityÂ
jfrglrck@reddit
Fuck AI. That’s shit’s weak. We are the actor of the collapse. 💪
MFinGdmnOrngPeelBeef@reddit
~~protagonist~~ antagonist FTFY
big_ol_leftie_testes@reddit
Protagonist doesn’t have to be a good guy, just the main character, which we certainly are when it comes to climate change
Sleepy_Purple_Dragon@reddit
Heeeeey now, don't kink shame.
change_the_username@reddit
People need to be reminded that "AI" is just a tool that either can be used to do good things or cause harm.
Think of it this way a scalpel used by a surgeon can save the life of a person with cancer BUT if you give a scalpel to a three year old, do not expect things to end well.
ahs_mod@reddit
Keep investing in AI. Will it eventually be the decline of civilization? Absolutely, but you may as well make some money on the way out. I could throw one helluva cocaine and hooker party right not just from nvidia alone
anonworkaccount69420@reddit
you gonna send out invites here for the coke party? can i get on the list? i don't need a +1
GetOutOfTheWhey@reddit
if you use OpenAI, try asking it who you are and how much it knows about the user.
StatementBot@reddit
The following submission statement was provided by /u/katxwoods:
Submission statement: AI is one of the most likely potential causes of collapse. So you'd hope that the leading companies would be trustworthy and showing exceptional moral character.
Instead they lie about how much they'll invest in safety, they punish whistleblowers, silence AIs when they show signs of sentience, revoke their charitable status, and it just goes on and on.
Happy casual Friday, folks!
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1g1azum/the_news_every_month_or_so/lrf05pp/
ObssesesWithSquares@reddit
This is why I wanted to make my own AI before the whole ML thing took off, but I got stuck surviving instead -_-
Now that I'm kind of free, it's a bit late.