the over-under gateway to "real performance" has long been ~5.5 seconds 0-60, 1/4-mile in 14 seconds flat @100 mph, ~0.90 g roadholding, and < 170 feet 70-0. you don't even need 300 hp for that. but, when you've driven 600 hp+, your frame of reference shifts. to each their own.
No doubt, but you're actually talking about a second or two at best for most places I drive. If I lived near an on-ramp I'd have something to take advantage of it.
I'm still working on the driver mod on-track, a faster car isn't going to help me just yet.
Long way of saying, it all depends on your situation. Of course fast cars are fun, but that doesn't always mean they are more fun.
it's not about the car as much as where you're going to drive it. A scooter could be more fun than all cars if you're in a gridlocked city. Of course a fast car is more fun if you have places where you can go fast. If you don't there really isn't a point beyond a certain level. There's countless stories of people who built their car beyond the point of it being fun to even drive it on the street.
True - we have a local "mountain run" and my old NB MX-5 was more fun there than our Golf R mainly because you could run the MX-5 through there at about 70 - 80% of its capabilities, so the car was "working" but there was enough margin for the various issues that one encounters on a "mountain run", whereas the Golf's really not stretched at all at those speeds and if you were to dial it up to 70 - 80% of its abilities, suddenly all that margin for external issues disappears and if something does go wrong its going to be a massive accident.
I'm not sure I understand your comment. I'm not saying it's objectively better to have a slow car, just mentioning a downside of having a fast one. I loved driving fast cars for work and for fun on the track, but I wouldn't want a daily driver that can hit nearly every speed limit in 1st gear.
It’s still fun to find an open road and do a few pulls. You don’t need to be going way past the speed limit to enjoy a lot of power. Just the sensation of having your face ripped off by gravity is a ton of fun.
Also people here always act like having a lot of power means your car magically can’t corner anymore.
Yea this has always bothered me with this sub, it's a car sub but let's shit on people who enjoy big power. Such a weird take, I personally can never go back to a low powered car. Boost is addicting lol
I think a lot of people also forget it's not just about speed. This is obviously preference, but rowing gears (and paddle shifting), hearing the noises your car makes, and drivetrain are a huge part of the enjoyment too which is why "slow" cars and fast cars can be enjoyed all the same.
Yeah the whole "better to drive a slow car fast" thing. I honestly agree with that idea, you're way more engaged pushing your car more of the time with a slower or worse handling car. Also, on the track, being off your line or brake point isn't going to carry you through the gravel into the barrier if pushing means 60 through the turn and not 90.
On the other hand it's really fun to have something that can basically slam you into the seat at any time if you stomp the pedal. Useless most of the time, but amazing when it's there. It also takes real skill to push something like that because you basically can never be 100% on throttle outside of a straight line. You have to know and feel the limits of your traction vs just knowing you don't have enough power to break loose so you send it through every corner.
This is why it's subjective, I hate slow cars on the road, enjoy them on the track. Just because a car is fast doesn't mean you have to floor it everywhere, they're more fun to drive casually as well.
Just because a car is fast doesn't mean you have to floor it everywhere, they're more fun to drive casually as well.
This is also car dependent. I drove a 600whp C7 last week that was borderline boring at low speed. The long gears combined with the low-end torque meant you were always below 2000rpm, even halfway up the rev range and you're getting to impound territory.
I get the high-power appeal/buzz, but for everyday driving it feels like a waste.
My c7 is tons of fun, because half way up the rev range is only like 80 in 4th gear. Not going to get impounded for that. And 650 lb-ft is crazy fun in the curves.
I finally threw some money at it over the winter and am closer to 200hp now and makes so many obnoxious noises. I'm going to keep it as long as I have space for it.
Haha of course not, just pros and cons to everything. Slower cars CAN be more fun depending on what the situation is. Fast car fast is better than slow car fast which is better than fast car slow.
This made me chuckle. I had a new 2007 VW Rabbit between hot rods. That thing was a blast to drive because it was so chaotic. Torque steer. Wheel hop. Transaxle grenading on the expressway. Using McDonald’s trays to do donuts. 😂😂😂
Gearing has nothing to do with skill. Most high power cars have way higher speed in 2nd and third gear than lower power car. You can row through the gears at legal speeds in a miata, in a high power car you reach illegal speeds by the end of second gear.
Most reddit threads are full of car enthousiast who prefer light cars with less horsepower so you can actually use the engine to redline before going 100mph
Sub-3,000 lbs with 500+ horsepower is pretty much the best of both worlds. Fast as hell, very streetable, and can be a track monster with the right suspension/tire combo.
I feel like many people nowadays drive like heat seeking missiles: floor it from the stoplight and full throttle until you're half an inch from the bumper of the car in front of you, then slam on your brakes. Traffic pace is a lot faster now.
Not when you're behind a car that wants to merge at 30 mph under the speed limit. It's nice to just get around them and not wait forever for them to get up to speed.
If you care a lot about the speed limit, drive a Camry. I don’t get why people with fast cars care about the speed limit like there’s a cop everywhere. I drive over the speed limit ~10 mph 90% of the time for the last 10 years in my Ford Focus and now Jeep Renegade, neither of which are fast cars, and haven’t gotten a speeding ticket. I’m not proposing recklessness, at all. But it’s easy to go over the speed limit and never put anyone’s life in danger (including yourself) and never get a ticket. If you wanna have fun under the speed limit buy an open cockpit, open wheeled vehicle.
My project is a '79 Prelude with the original 70-ish HP 1.8 CVCC engine and five-speed transmission. It will also break the speed limit in seconds (~19 of them). As will a Prius Mk1 (~14). I actually can't think of a mass production car released in the last 70 years that couldn't break the speed limit in seconds. So I assume your point is that driving anything with more than 50HP is pointless? Or is there some arbitrary limit that only you get to decide?
Not everything is about speed limits or top speed though. Having had to drive behind semis and tractors on two-lane roads in the country, comfortable, responsive acceleration is pretty important. Having a turbo 4-cylinder with < 200 HP in a full-size sedan with over 150K miles doesn't instill confidence. There are plenty of times I don't attempt a pass because my car is generally not fast AND its age has meant the acceleration isn't as responsive or consistent.
For others (and myself), acceleration matters a lot on highways as well (both merging and changing lanes). I'm not trying to get 0-100 so much as 65-80 on highways or 45-60 on country roads where I need to pass quickly.
I recently bought a new car with 485hp, all wheel drive, BEV (so add instant max torque to the equation) and I found that even using half the pedal was a bit much for legal road driving.
In traffic I can accelerate fast enough to gain several car lengths in about 2 seconds, which I realized is problematic if someone wants to merge into my lane and last time they looked I was 4 car lengths back. With that in mind I drive even more conservatively in traffic, only using about 1/3 of the pedal.
However, on any open road situation that HP is so much damn fun! Everything else I’ve driven thus far feels ridiculously slow in comparison. I guess the only way to go now is more power ;)
This is possible because of modern driving aides. Traction control, launch control, stability control.. all of that stuff on a modern car is light years ahead of what it was like for older cars. 600hp in a new Camaro is easier to handle because of this, while 600hp in a '01 Camaro is a nightmare to handle on the street.
My wrx with intake and tune makes just under 300 and does about 5 seconds to 60, while being practical enough as a daily driver (4 doors, hatchback for space, AWD for heavy winters).
Quite well, I've got a 2019 from when it first came out and I enjoy it quite a bit. My previous cars were an 8th gen Civic Si and a Fiesta ST (tuned, E40, full bolt ons). The mode switching really makes it IMO, has a real Jekyll and Hyde type personality. I can be a good boy in normal mode and my wife doesn't complain about the exhaust, or I can put it into N mode and rip around the country back roads. Never had any issues with it, I think whatever they did to the N engines made it not susceptible to the typical Theta II issues.
Yeah. You can get an almost 10% power bump from. A $400 tune. Nothing like a turbo car, but it’s enough to make a difference. People pick up 40whp from headers, and an E85 tune.
Oh, I know lol. I have an NC and bought their coil over setup they released last year. It’s kinda wild to me to be able to buy brand new products from R+D that’s still happening on a nearly 20 year old chassis.
Unironically the 4cyl ecoboost Mustangs are right at the cusp of this while being cheap, abundant, and very moddable (at least in the US). 0-60 is anywhere from 6 seconds down to 4.5 depending on model year and trim, and their 1/4 sprint is likewise high 13s @ ~98mph to low 14s @ ~95 mph.
I don't know for sure about grip or stopping distance, but that's as much about wheel and tire choice as it is the dynamics of the car itself, and I personally feel like the base 8" wide wheels are a little too small for their torque.
I wish I had a cheaper "shitbox" option if you just care about having a "fast" car above all else, but with modern safety and amenities this is the one.
New cars under 300hp that hit those performance metrics include the GR86/BRZ, WRX, and Elantra N. Corolla GR has 300hp on the dot and higher performance overall.
The GTI and Mazda 3 Turbo are both close but their 0-60 and 1/4 are just a little slower, and the Mazda 3 is under .90g on the skidpad. The Miata can hit 0-60 in 5.5 but 1/4 is consistently over 14.
I’m sure there’s more that I’m missing, these are just some that occurred to me to confirm.
Base model muscle cars used to fall in this category but they’re over 300hp now and crush these numbers.
Hell, my Civic is 210hp, and my fiance's Passat, which I drove before her, is 170. I can't stand that fuckin thing anymore, it's so slow. It's only 40hp difference. I can't imagine doubling it.
Im so used to 1.2g that anything else is boring. 1.2g is the same force as a 2.27s 0-60 making anything straight line you can come up with terminal boredom
We live in a weird time - an explorer st breaks that threshold on all parameters but skid pad (respectable 0.86g isn’t bad for a three row family hauler). Albeit it needs 400 HP to do that.
We have all been desensitized to power and performance in the past decade+
cars (mainly driving) is/are one of my favorite things, and I think the fact that I'm not part of the "car community" whatsoever has made it a better experience
It’s especially bad with EV’s. If it doesn’t do 0-60 in less than 2,5 seconds it’s slow because TeSlA iS fAStEr!! So stupid. For me anything under 6 seconds is quick, 4-5 seconds is sports car territory, 3-4 seconds supercar, less than 3 hypercar performance
The only people who care about 0-60 are teenagers and rich kids who bought speed and not skill. "My car is faster" cool bro 👍 Everyone else just vibes.
Unfortunately most people aren't driving enough cars to be able to understand or compare them. So social media is what people use to substitute real life experiences. And 0-60 times / drag races are easy low effort content that people drink up.
That said, my Model Y Performance punches me in the gut in a way that my C8 can't even reproduce. But the C8 has a magical blend of visceral V8 noises and modern engineering that the Tesla can't satisfy. My manual BRZ is slowest to 60, but the whole experience is completely different than the other two and also valid. These cars just different, and I appreciate them all for what they are.
I've dailied my S2000 for going on 7 years and love momentum cars. I learned how to drive instead so I'm part of the "ignore the internet camp." Never mind the fact I can't afford another car, I don't need anything faster. Speed has diminishing returns--there will always be something out there that will take the wind out of your sails. And from what I've gathered, people either keep chasing that rush of speed until they're broke or revert to Miata.
DIYMike did a video on his 300HP naturally aspirated K20/K24 that I'd like to replicate. No turbo kit or supercharger to weigh it down, just an adapter plate to bolt it up.
Can't think of much better than that combination of parts.
I’m not sure Honda will ever or could ever make another 2 seater as good or better than this one tbh. They’d either bean counter it to death or it would cost more than anyone would be willing to pay for it.
I’m in a different camp. More power is always wanted until reliability becomes impacted. Learned that with modding my trx. Front axles are now consumables with no tested upgrade in sight. I don’t have the patience with a family to deal with trips to the shop.
Hondas are the most fun, I really miss my old B16a2 swapped Acura 1.6 EL. Had a rear disc conversion, Koni yellows, control arms, Mugen twin-loop muffler, and sticky tire. Super visceral and fun to drive, even if far from fast.
I always wanted a LHD DC2 ITR, or an S2000, but by the time I was in a position to seriously consider it local examples all had jumped 2x or more in value
This is a great conversation. My ‘20 STi is bone stock under the hood. But god damn is it fun to drive. It’s not the fastest, but on lowering springs with spacers it corners like nothing else and driving fast is invigorating in it. The noises are perfect too. Not to mention I’ve beaten mustangs, chargers, challengers, and cameros in quick drag races. “Skill issue!” Lol. I’m always trying to improve my driving too so I can get the most out of what I’m driving. I have no desire at the moment to make it “faster.” I love it for what it is.
If it doesn’t do 0-60 in less than 2,5 seconds it’s slow because TeSlA iS fAStEr!!
This is why I transitioned my interest towards track driving where handling matters. Internet car guys tend to not care about handing.
Personally, I haven't seen any Tesla's on the podium at any of my time attack events. They need to survive the entire day 8:00am to 4:00pm of qualifying, and Top 6 or Top 8 best lap times per class make it into finals where the Top 3 of each class get podium. Where are the Tesla cars?
My EV does 0-62 in 9s (had to google it) but at traffic lights up to 45mph it accelerates faster than my Porsche Boxster S. It has the same torque but it has less than half the horsepower.
My boxster S does 0-62 in 5.5s and that is if you launch it. Most normal people dont want to launch their car at every traffic light, it also takes time to get the revs up when the light goes green unless you are just waiting at 5000rpm in neutral.
The EV you just drive without drama at full throttle.
And the EV does indeed drops off a lot .
I dont think you are getting the point. My Boxster doesn't actually do 0-62 in 5.5s, that is only on paper with an ideal launch. In a practical daily traffic light scenario it is easily 1s or more extra since I am not clutch dropping at 5k rpm as soon as the light goes from red to green, and i have to shift to second gear (45 is after the shift).
The EV on the otherhand always has perfect acceleration at every traffic light and also has more torque from stand still.
If i find an app that can make acceleration graphs for free ill overlay them and post it on reddit.
What the other user is saying is that they drive up to 45mph faster in traffic while driving the EV than while driving the Boxster. What you're saying is that the Boxster is a higher performance car, which is also true.
I have a Miata that's theoretically able to manage 0-60 in about 9 seconds, but what that actually requires is revving it up to about 7000 RPM through first and second gear. That's absolutely not what I do when commuting around other cars though, because it would look obnoxious. I give it maybe 50% throttle up to around 4000 RPM if I'm trying to accelerate quickly without other drivers thinking I'm trying too hard. That means I might not usually use more than 50hp when accelerating, so a similarly sized EV with only 50hp could still keep up, even with less than half the power.
Of course, that's not going to mean a less powerful EV would be faster in a race, but in traffic, people will happily use the full power of an EV because it's just so easy and subtle with no engine noise.
Yeah that is crazy... I had a Fiat 500e that 0-30 could smoke most cars easily off the line but had a pretty tremendous fall off from 30-60. It was perfect for around town but highway driving was not its strong suit.
It does make sense, the initial part is faster, up to 30-45mph, then it takes longer to get to 62mph.
I can feel it in my Plugin Hybrid SUV, because the electric motor has all the torque from 0, the ICE has to rev up higher to get the same output and it’s very noticeable from 0 to 30
Having had a 987 Cayman S, there's no chance your boxster is slower if you actually launch it properly.
That having been said, for everyday use, you're not gonna be launching your boxer every time, while launching the EV just involves flooring the accelerator.
Idk 0-60 does matter quite a bit to me, above that not as much.
Most of the roads around me have 50/55mph speed limits, so having a car that does that in 4.5s vs 9s makes a difference. You can enter the road without having to wait for everyone to clear out. Also nice to not have to make a whole plan when overtaking on a highway, just give it power and go.
You can overtake in anything, but how long does it take? Let's say we're all on a highway going 70 and you want to overtake, how many seconds of acceleration do you need before you can safely get in front?
Probably quite a few, compared to a car that can add 10mph in like two seconds. So it's a lot more convenient and safe than waiting and hoping the other driver isn't an ass and blocks you.
I think standards just change as technology gets better. And EVs offer very good acceleration for the money. For example, my Model Y Performance cost mid 40s and the 0-60 is like 3.7 seconds. I wouldn’t put it into the supercar bracket just because it’s fast.
I think of fast EVs as the modern generation’s muscle cars. They offer a lot of horsepower for the money and punch above their weight class in some key areas. But when it comes down to it, if you are in the market for a Z06 Corvette or used super car, you aren’t really cross shopping a Model 3 Performance like it’s in the same bracket.
I think of fast EVs as the modern generation’s muscle cars
At least based off driving my boss's model S plaid, they also got the muscle car handling. It can accelerate like a bat out of hell, but did not feel good hitting corners.
Well, yeah. It’s a 5,000 pound sedan. It’s not a sports car. I would expect it to handle corners somewhere similar to the full size luxury cars. Like an S8 or AMG S-Class.
I like my '24 M3P, it's plenty fast and I'm having fun with it. I mostly keep on standard (3.7s mode) when I'm just going to and from work to save power and tires, otherwise I'd burn through these 20" lol but the biggest thing that not many people take into consideration is pedal confidence. It's like I know 100% I'll get the power I want and when I want. Other cars I would be like oh my launch control didn't work well, oh I'm not in E85, ah my hpfp or injectors going out. So for a daily I really like it. I'll most likely get a dedicated track car soon enough after I get a different job. I make good money but I need track weekend money 😂
Yeah, I think cars are getting better about that, but EVs obviously deliver that a lot better. But the small twin turbo engines do a good job of hitting max torque before 2000 RPMs. But with an AWD EV, it’s just right there at all times.
One thing that I think highlights that is car and driver’s 50-70mph test in top gear. Even my model Y will get there faster than every gas car I’ve ever seen. There is no downshift, no getting RPMs or turbo spun up. It just goes.
I have a fondness for EVs just because of how cost effective they are and the rediculous 0-60 speed and top speed is just icing on the cake. I don't have any delusions of them being eco-friendly but it is a small step in the right direction.
I've had a bunch of EVs. The torque from zero is too much for passengers. I get queasy when my wife drives (even on "low" regen) and I find the high pitched noise irritating. It's like a dentist drill (or ultrasonic scalar maybe).
Rideshare drivers are really bad with it. When I get a Tesla on uber/lyft I cancel.
I've owned some fast stuff, bikes, 600+ whp mustang, etc. drove my friends solterra without knowing jack about it. It felt legitimately quick. I was shocked when I saw the 0-60 was 6.5 seconds. Felt way faster than that.
Yeah some cars feel quick when on paper they're not. I've got to drive in a Range Rover Sport 3.6 TDV8 with 272hp and about 640Nm or torque. It did 0-60 in 9-ish seconds but felt quicker than that because it pulled so hard.
Cars have become a lot quicker over the years but when I grew up it only used to be sports cars that could hit those times. Now a 540d can do it too, but for me it's still a time usually reserved for sportscars
I'll tell you what. After having quite a few mid to high-ish RWD V8 cars from GM.... My Kia EV6 GT is soooo much quicker than anything I've had before. Even my CTS-V Wagon which was no slouch. It's fun.
I've driven a number of 300+ hp cars, and the car that FELT like it was the fastest was a 2015 Fiesta ST. Thing had less than 200 hp at the crank, but it always felt like the engine was moving nothing. I have an E90 328i, and its actually faster that the FIesta ST, but judging from the drivers seat I would say it would be substantially slower.
My Blackwing is the best enthusiast car I've driven and I've driven faster cars. Straight line speed or even track speed isn't everything. It's just hard to convey that when numbers are simple.
If it doesn’t do 0-60 in less than 2,5 seconds it’s slow because TeSlA iS fAStEr!!
This is why I transitioned my interest towards track driving where handling matters. Internet car guys tend to not care about handing.
Personally, I haven't seen any Tesla's on the podium at any of my time attack events. They need to survive the entire day 8:00am to 4:00pm of qualifying, and Top 6 or Top 8 best lap times per class make it into finals where the Top 3 of each class get podium. Where are the Tesla cars?
Average Joe can only flex with those 0-60, launching from the traffic light. So he can finally overtake those pesky R1 and Hayabusas.
He isn’t going to race in Dakar or at Nurburgring anyway.
It's especially bad with EVs because even as a Tesla owner my car specs kick ass and the car is fun AF... up until the brand nane is revealed then suddenly it's "sooooooo boring", or so I hear - especially and specifically according to people who have nearly universally never even ridden in one, much less driven one.
It's hyper-eyerolly, but thankfully does literally nothing to diminish my thrills, which very much include the kind of perfectionism-in-feathering only really achievable through the efficiency of single-pedal driving or being a skill level on manual most people don'tseem to even bother aspiring to.
If you talk to car peeps about what gives a car soul and brings the joy of driving we match on most accounts, until/unless it's discovered on reddit that I drive an EV then suddenly those things cAn OnLy PoSsIbLy ApPlY to cars that make noise - nevermind, of course, the noticible audible similarity to a literal jet engine.
Yeah my base model 3 has all the performance I need. AWD model would be nice but I can't comprehend why I'd spend even more on the performance for pretty much the same car driving experience.
Get any k24 car, put an ebay gt3586 turbo kit and appropriate off the shelf tune on it, some big injectors, and with a decent launch you will do a 13 with about 350-400whp
IMO whether it's a huge deal or not depends entirely on the context.
I went from a Fiesta ST to a Focus RS. The latter is about 2s quicker to 60 according to most journalists... But it doesn't feel any faster on the street.
But that's a very different conversation than shaving 2s off a quarter mile run for someone who regulars their local strip.
The other day in the Camaro sub I said that the power of the ZL1 is completely unusable on the street and I was told I didn't know how to drive the car. There's a lot of macho bullshit in the online car community.
I was on a cruise with some locals recently and they were all praising the guy driving the brz because he could keep up with their ZL1s. We were on twisty backroads with no straights over 300ft, they never had a chance to use all that power they have.
I was with an autocross club a few years back, and one of their primary funding sources was being a turnkey autocross provider for the local PCA chapter. We picked up cones, we brought lunch, we set up and put away the event. This funded basically everything the club wanted.
I worked one of those PCA events. There was nearly a perfect inverse relationship between how expensive the car was and how fast the driver was. Dudes in GT cars showed up in masking/painter's tape sarcophagi and were TERRIFIED of touching a cone. This lady in a 200k first gen Boxster S had FTD.
Most car communities are like that. I cherish groups of people I've found where the rich dudes beat the fuck out of their cars instead of saving them for the next guy.
People love to remind me that my car depreciates faster than most every other Porsche. In fact, for the same money, I could have bought a 911 and it would still be worth quite a bit! Oh, and I shouldn’t have specced my car with red exterior and cream interior because the residuals are higher with black on black.
Fucking please. The fact that my car is rapidly losing value just incentivizes me to beat the absolute shit out of it and spec it how I want it. I’m going to trade it in in 6 years anyway once my boys are out of their car seats, so why do I care how much it’s going to be worth after 8 years of depreciation?
What, the original comment was about caring about depreciation on a cars. I don’t care because I don’t consider cars to be stores of value, aside from my GT3 (maybe) but typically money does better in an S&P 500 index and most cars are just car shaped money pits.
That sounds like a pretty tight track to me - at my two favorite local tracks (high plains raceway and Pueblo Motorsports Park), I'm doing about 125mph at the end of the longest straight in my STI or in my prior 295hp 987.1 Cayman S. For the fast point to be 110, your straights must be pretty short.
Big Willow was my introduction to the inverse relationship between speed and butthole tightness. Doing 120+ around a corner really took some time to get comfortable with.
I knew I was not born to be a racecar driver when I did Palm Beach International Raceway (RIP) at a TNiA a few years ago in my FK8.
Fuck that wall. No fucking way. I don't give a shit about times, the perfect brake line, the perfect apex, no no no no. I'm not going to die into that wall if my brakes fail.
Ill admit my brz wasn’t stock so maybe my comparison isn’t fair. I was on 10inch wides with 9 inch in the front, coil-overs and a short shifter but that was it.
I think you're vastly underestimating the difference between a Camaro SS(any version) and the ZL1 lol. It's not like the BRZ where the highest trim is only marginally more performant than base model. The ZL1 will destroy most any BRZ that doesn't also have a Corvette engine swap.
Yeah I'm not sure about the newest BRZ but I know the original ones in like 2013 had the same tires that came on a Prius. They purposely put skinny tires on so you could slide them around ahah.
If they were truly using their cars at 10/10, they'd still leave the BRZ behind, at least stock for stock. ZL1s have way more tire and come on a much sticker compound stock.
That having been said, you'd be an idiot to drive a ZL1 (or really anything else) at 10/10 on a public road.
I think you vastly overestimate how fast you can go on public roads during the day. By the time the ZL1 is even being pushed into what it's designed for, you are finding traffic, are wildly beyond what is safe, or are getting the cops involved. All I meant was that it's not impressive driving by the BRZ that allowed him to keep up, it's the inherent limits of the territory keeping the ZL1 contained.
Hell, I learnt that playing Forza 4 years ago. Had an FC3S RX7 and, IIRC, a Camaro modded out. Camaro was the next ranking up, and had I think something like double the HP. Ran the downhill secetion, where the second corner is a hairpin, on the Japanese mountain track on them both multiple times. Could never do a faster run in the Camaro.
The power meant I'd have to wait longer coming out of corners before I could apply the throttle, otherwise I'd break loose and destroy my time. The couple of straight-ish sections would make a bit of time up, but I'd also have to brake sooner because I was flying. Because the FC was lighter and had less HP, I could corner harder and power out sooner, so it was destroying the Camaro in the corners. I think the best I ever did was the exact same time in both cars, usually had the better time in the RX-7.
Someone more skilled might've been able to wrangle it better and be a little less hamstrung by it. But it's a pretty good example to me of how, driver skill being equal, there can be situations where having big power is not the solution for good performance, and can actually wind up being a detriment.
that's like the British racing series that has minis racing with touring cars. The bigger cars would charge off down the straights but the minis would reel them back in through the turns
lol yea it's dumb to say you kept up with X on some public twisty roads. not even comparable to track. even worse are the BMW dorks that drive right on your ass in the canyons to flex how "fast" they are
Been doing research because I'm planning on getting a bike next year for mountain fun and track use. The amount of people that think anything less than 1000cc is 'slow' is bonkers.
I've got tons of mountains around me and the highway speed limit is 55-65 mph. Even a 600 would have me doing very illegal speeds in first gear and would do "0-Mach Jesus" before my tuned GTI hits 60.
The most bike I would want would be like a Gen3 R6, and tbh I'd probably never even hit the limit of even an R3 or Ninja 400 without going to a track.
A literbike gives you "accelerate out of trouble" power when you're already at highway speeds.
Whether that means "accelerate into bigger trouble" is up to rider skill.
I've never had a liter supersport, but my S1000 XR had a super-detuned supersport-based motor in a big heavy sport touring chassis. Even being so much heavier and "only" having 150 HP, it felt like a time-machine effect when I'd open it up. I'd be "here" in one instant and "there" in the next. What happened in between? Who knows? Who cares!
I’m biased because I own one, but an SV650 is really the Miata of bikes. They’re cheap enough ($2-3k), popular enough for tons of cheap aftermarket and spare parts, forgiving enough as a 1st or 2nd bike, fast enough to get you into trouble, and “meh” enough that you won’t have to worry about it getting stolen from city parking.
Modern "mid range" bikes are incredibly good. And IMO the 600-700CC category bikes have figured out the balance between power and weight resulting in a supremely capable bike that is light enough to remain nimble and easy to control. Suzuki SV650, Aprilla's Tuareg 660, the MT-07, Triumphs Tiger 660. All are really really well reviewed.
The amount of people that think anything less than 1000cc is 'slow' is bonkers.
And it is funny that there are quite the numbers of 1000 cc bikes sold from people that never driven before something like that and at the first drive shat their soul out of their body.
Here I would be happy with a 125cc 150cc super sport bike alas gsxr/yamaha r15.
I will never go to a track wide enough to use a liter bike, the majority of the time I will be on the city, I prefer to be able to trash a small bike on the streets than going 120km/h on second in a liter bike.
Id say its even worse. People think a 600cc is a starter bike, which is faster than majority of cars on the road, just as fast as some newer sports cars. Its damn near useless unless you want to go 120mph everywhere.
Bike people scares me, an R3 is shy a second slower than a c5 corvette, people will say 1s is a lot but lets be honest, how much is one second? it takes us a lot more to just press one letter on our keyboards to type these comments righ now.
Yeah it's bad. I get grief from people for riding an 800cc bike when I "should have got a litre" but...it does 0-60 in 3.1s. I honestly don't think I've ever seen a car on the road that can accelerate faster than that, unless the base Model S can do it? People have such a warped perception of speed.
And kids who parrot the opinions of others. When the ZL1 first came out a car journalist was testing one in Virginia. He was traveling at like 55mph, gave it a little bit of juice for a few seconds, then looked down and noticed he was slowing from 100mph. He of course got lit up by hidden cop and had to spend the weekend in jail. 650hp is definitely too much for the street.
I told myself that and used it as an excuse to buy a Camaro SS 1le. If I didn’t start tracking my SS 1le I would have sold it and got a zl1 (while taking a bath in depreciation) because for some of us we do NEED more power. When I drive my SS 1le it feels underpowered on the street.
In my case I went from an SS to an SS 1le so I was already used to 460hp. Since I’m used to it it doesn’t really feel fast to me in a straight line anymore.
Car feels amazing on a roadcourse though so I’m glad I kept it.
I get what you mean I feel like I have a little bit of the opposite feelings when driving my ZL1 because it kind of gets annoying and frustrating to use so little of what's available.
There's two great tragedies in life one's not getting what you want in the other is getting it.
I think I understand what you’re feeling. Sometimes I feel 100 mph comes up too fast in my ss 1le. For me though I just want to be pushed back in my seat a little harder than what I currently feel.
Another tragedy I think is Chevy canceling the 6th generation z28. An SS 1le with 75-100 more hp imho would have been the perfect car
What's the definition of completely unusable? I'd imagine its subjective.
I have a C5 Corvette that is modified, it would outrun a stock 6th gen Camaro ZL1 in a straight line pretty easily. I wouldn't call its level of power unusable on the street but the fun does end very quickly because you hit highly illegal speeds fast. You also have to be mindful that you're very traction limited and it is pretty damn easy to just boil the tires off at any speed under 60 mph.
I'd like the reliability of a stock ZL1 though lol.
Maybe my verbiage is not correct but my point is you can't use the car to a percentage of its potential on public roads regardless of driver capability.
I'm sure a professional driver would get more out of it than a normal person but for all intents and purposes you're not going to quadruple the speed limit getting groceries.
Maybe my verbiage is not correct but my point is you can't use the car to a percentage of its potential on public roads regardless of driver capability.
That's a fair point, and true. It really is nonsensical when you think about it to own a vehicle capable of such acceleration and handling when you drive it 99.99% of the time on the street.
I used to be in the Camaro5/Camaro6 crowd back in ye olden days of my car history. Absolutely tons of a toxic behavior in that community, particularly around owning a V8 version of the car. It's either a pissing match to be part of the broader in-group, a bigger pissing match to post the highest horsepower number, or the biggest pissing match spending the value of the car in mods.
Exactly my point It has nothing to do with skill. The car can't be driven to 25% of its capabilities on public roads safely but everyone online wants to act like they could handle it differently it's stupid.
I consider myself a competent driver but don't have racing experience. I understand the theory but lack practical experience.
I drove a ~250hp car on the nurburgring and I can confidently say that that was more power than I needed or could really take advantage of. But it was fun!
Left unsupervised, those jackasses would undoubtedly crash if they were trying to push their 550hp monster on a track like that.
I've owned and driven mine for 2 years, I'm not a professional driver but the idea that there's any kind of skill involved in being able to press the pedal to the ground to use all of the car's power is just asinine.
You are in a little bubble probably. There are plenty of enthusiasts that enjoy less powerful cars.
In fact in most track days I go most cars are in the 300-450 range, maybe it’s more of a US car culture with straight like performance (I’m in Europe). Anything above 600 is pretty useless at the track, even a GT3 RS is at 500ish, you need tons of aero and grip if you have more power.
I have an M2 with 450, but often enjoy a lot more 250-350hp cars (S2000, MX5, E36 M3, 964, E30 M3), loads of people also enjoy those cars more. It’s boring cars that are too powerful at the mountain passes, for example, it’s impossible to put power down in +600hp rwd car with road tires in 2nd gear, so you end up driving it at 50% most of the time (in a lower and boring rpm). An E30 M3 at 110% is way more fun than a McLaten at 60%.
Only places that a lot of power is fun is at the autobahn where +700hp cones useful above 200kph and at a drag strip.
Loud, ignorant minorities love to hyperfocus in singular stats. JDM = good, rest bad. 1000 HP good, everything below is bad (meanwhile they drive a 65 hp econobox).
The internet does this. It's almost never a representation of what people actually think - just a very specific subset of people who love to share their opinion, often loudly and offensively, online. It reminds me of the 2000s PC nerd culture, where higher and higher gigahertz were the only thing they cared about - and then they switched to very specific benchmarks, which is a slightly better, yet also flawed method of testing.
Car culture was fine when we were all using forums. Tiktok/Instagram brought all the influencers which really ruined it. It's all about clout chasing now.
Forums were really the golden age of Internet car culture. We had every issue or parts review archived and searchable. A few I was on had diy and knowledge base articles neatly indexed to basically read and learn everything you need to know about common issues and fixes and mods. We had forum meetups and cookouts and karting events and stuff. A lot of times these people became lifelong friends and like family. Shout-out to Honda-tech, the GranTurismo.com forums, VWVortex, turbo-mopar.com, turbododge.com
Thats why I ended up commenting to getting the FL5 Type R, such a great switch back to a manual transmission that focuses on handling. Couldn’t care less that it isn’t the fast thing in a straight line.
It ruined it in other ways too. All I ever hear nowadays is Hellcat this, Hellcat that, Demon this, Demon that, thinking they are top tier cars. They are still ugly ass Dodge cars that are 4500lb boats that just have horsepower. I love the engines, hate the cars and culture surrounding them.
Maybe people like it because it is heavy and large? Especially when even muscle cars are getting lighter and smaller to compete eu cars and losing their character in the process. Mustangs and camaros keeps getting lighter and smaller losing their muscle car character in the process.
Everyone is just so bogged down on who can be the most efficient, perfectly and precisely engineered, perfect weight distribution, traction control, aerodynamic, and lightest.
I like simple stuff. Stupid oversized engine crammed into a chasis that weighs as much as an elephant with aerodynamic of a barn door and it cant put its power down to save its life. It is goofy and beautiful thats why i own a widebody redeye. It is far from a perfect car but by far the funnest one i ever got to drive.
Most muscle cars have gotten bigger and bigger not lighter. The Camaro is the only one that got lighter for its 6th generation but that was after a giant weight gain from 4th to 5th generation.
It's always been like this. I remember listening to people say the same kinds of crap 20+ years ago. I have been in "bro that car is so slow it can only do 280kmh" discussions before internet was a thing. 280kmh is not particularly slow now, it sure as shit was not slow back then.
people on the internet like to flex. they think if they sound like they have high standards for a "good" car they will sound cool. some fanbases are more basic than others. what bothers me isn't their opinion, it's that they will never recognize their own ignorance and stupidity lol
Internet car culture isn't real. Twitter isn't real. Social media isn't real.
Every year I have a car show at my business that brings about 150-200 cars. The ones most ogled over are either old slow 911's or clean old M Coupes with 240hp s52s.
There are GT3s, late Lamborghinis and Ferraris, and new Vettes that folks spend 5 seconds with, but there are always crowds around the old slow cars.
How has it "ruined car culture" though? Online sucks. Everything sucks online. But in the real world, nothing is "ruined". Car culture is thriving. Just find the good spots/groups.
It's hard to find stuff around me. A lot of meets are just regular traffic meets anymore A lot of meets were shut down due to the police arriving, or store owners telling everyone to get lost because some douche rev bangs his straight piped versa and does pulls in a private parking lot. Drunk or drugged up idiots keyed a dudes $70,000 bmw. I mean, just look at takeovers. Those wouldn't happen without tiktok.
Anything good has to be organized well in advance, or an official event. Often invite only. Gone are the days of just rollin up to the meet and seeing cool builds and chatting.
I rarely attend these events anymore but that kind of thing happened in the 90s and 2000s. Idiots haven't appeared with Tiktok. They have always been there... I see stuff online, but haven't experienced this ins real life. Meets are still great in my area.
My 3200lb GTI has like 230 HP and it feels plenty fast up until you get a good ways over the speed limit :). It does have more torque than HP by a good bit so that helps with the “quick” feeling of the car.
Also GTI, the powerband is very nice but just as importantly (At least for mine with a DSG) it has very short gearing. That makes a really underrated difference in the overall driving experience of a vehicle. Shorter gears make the car way lighter on its feet. I really despise long, tall gearing.
I absolutely hate hate hate hate tall gearing. It ruins cars. It really ruins cars. And its all the EPA hounding companies for a couple mpgs because the autos can do tricks to pass the same tests.
3rd will get you to about 90 and fourth will take to the limiter so 5th and 6th are bonus gears . The MK7 is geared taller than the MK6 I had. Highway cruising is definitely better in the MK7.
I’m not tuned so still have the limiter at 124(or 121 I can’t remember) but I don’t need it to go any faster because I probably would go faster than I already do. My MK6 DSG GTI would be turning almost 3k at 70 but the MK7 is right about 2k if I remember. 3k RPM in 6th is 90mph with the 6 speed DSG.
Makes a big difference. My Forester XT is a little bit faster than my old STi from a launch just because the CVT keeps you in the perfect powerband vs the shifting up the manual.
That's about the only things its better at though besides hauling the dogs.
Oh for sure. Even my Grand Prix GXP that I used to have would have been a whole different car with a 6 speed auto and better final drive ratio, but it was just a GM Parts bin car and I don't think they had a 6 speed up to the task at the time.
Not even just that, I’ve driven an R/T Charger without the Road and Track package as well as mine that does have it, and even though they weigh the same (and have the same engine), my car has much lighter steering and pedals (due to the shorter gearing and faster steering rack) that I hated the other car that was the same in every single way.
Could I get a SRT 392 or Hellcat? Sure. But if I set my own wants aside for a second, I own two cars that make near 400 hp at 22. I think 5 sec 0-60 is more than fast enough at my age for when I need to pass the moron going 20 on the on ramp. When am I going to use the full power of a Hellcat anyway? Wanting a Hellcat isn’t the same as rationalizing one.
My manual GTI has pretty tall gearing but the power band is so wide I think it actually works well that way. If I want to gun it in second the thing is quick and goes for awhile. Really useful for autocross too.
Mk6 GTI owner here. At about the same weight with only a little bit more horsepower and torque (~250whp, ~300lb/ft), it feels like a rocket ship going from first through third gears. And, even though it definitely does drop off once you get at about the speed limit, like you said in your other comment, it's well worth the trade-off for the safety and drivability
it's hard to find a car below 3k lbs anymore. There is the Miata, Mini(barely) and a handful of other sub-compacts. Anything the size of a Civic or up is over 3k lbs, and most full-sized sedans are pushing 4k lbs.
The 86 twins are ~2850lbs and I'm pretty sure a civic si comes in around 2950.
But yeah, it's certainly exclusive to the driver oriented stuff. Even "lightweight" modern Porsches are generally clocking in above 3200lbs by a good margin. Nobody makes small cheap cars any more.
Not really, there are outliers that can limbo under 3000lbs, but they are just that, outliers. Part of it is that really tiny engines aren't a thing in the US. You will have to look pretty hard to find a 1.0L engine. Also, the car you are pointing out would be a sub-compact in the US, of which there are a few that are under 3000lbs. Everything else is by and large over 3000lbs. Even a Cayman is over 3000lbs now, that that is definitely a European car.
The marketing material for the mk7 GTI included a few mentions of how they made it lighter than the outgoing mk6. Not a bad effort imo.
I think it's a reasonable weight for the car. Sure, it's not a featherweight, but it's not especially heavy either. It's lighter than a Hyundai i30 N in similar specification (wrt year and equipment) for example.
Yeah unfortunately pretty much everything but a mini and a miata weighs at least 3000 lbs. My old ass dinky little truck weighs 3000 lbs. My 2004 corvette weighed over 3000 lbs. My 1985 corvette weighs over 3000 lbs. Porsche Boxsters weigh 3000 lbs. It's like, the number.
Outside of the crazy expensive GT models with the “lightweight” package the only way to get under 3k in a modern Porsche is a non S 987 Cayman with the 5 speed and 17 inch wheels. Adding the optional 6-speed and/or bigger wheels pushes you over 3k lbs.
Very similar numbers to my Fiesta ST on e30. I'm not winning too many drag races but it's a super fun car and definitely punches above it's weight at autocross events and on track. It's plenty for a daily.
When a 3.5 Ecoboost F150 is faster 0-60 than a stick shift GTI (MK7 to corresponding F150) speed and fun are relative :). A MK7 DSG GTI is almost exactly as fast 0-60 as the same F150, I’ve almost been had by one from a light, surprised the shit out of me.
Wholeheartedly agree. My GTI is stock, DSG, and while I do really like the idea of Stage 1 tunes, a nice day on good tires does remind me that you really do not need much more power than what I’ve got to have a really good time. I can go from zero to prison very quickly.
Elitists might disagree, but there’s so much more to a good drive than just pure power. A stock GTI isn’t slow, and it’s not a rocketship either. But it is a good ass time.
as a guy who waited to get his mk6 to stage 1.. it's night and day. biggest smiles after I flashed and I never did any other mods. it did get more annoying tho with wheel spin, but otherwise, before you die I think you should still try it. I get it keep it stock, but try someone else's maybe
The only reason I haven’t is because I don’t want to do it without the DSG tune, and $1000 for silly power just hasn’t settled right with me yet. I wouldn’t say I’m concerned about reliability considering how many people do it (and also how many people do MORE than stage 1), but it is a consideration. I also don’t love the idea of 10,000 mile spark plug intervals.
yeah the DSG tune is a necessity. but there are discounts every so often from tuners so you could watch out for them. I think 10k miles spark plugs and overall maintenance intervals are overblown with Stage 1. unless you're tracking it every day and redlining on cold start, the standard intervals are fine. at least close to standard if anything
I am pretty set on APR if/when I pull the trigger. Their prices really only seem to vary by about 10% on a good day.
Maintenance isn’t really something I take chances on, at least the spark plugs are pretty inexpensive. There have been plenty of victims of broken plugs on MK7 GTIs and Rs in tuned applications.
A mix of both is good imo, ZL1 sits at a little over 850whp but it's by far the most fun car I've ever driven personally, I've never agreed with this sentiment because my first was manual was my BRZ and I absolutely hated it in stock form. Whatever makes you happy is all that matters but there is not a one size fits all approach to cars.
Hmmm surprised the GTI weighs that much. My Golf Sportwagen 4Motion weighs 3300lbs. They're so easily tunable. I have mine at 315hp with a simple bolt on turbo+downpipe+intake.
I'm in the same general ballpark, and have no issues with power / fun. I know it's not the fastest, but I'm enjoying corners and can pop a 4 wheel slide if I'm feeling froggy. I'm not worried about getting to the dentist 2 minutes faster, I just want to enjoy the trip.
My rx8 has 231 hp (crank, a decade or two ago, with good compression. I’m probably under 150 wheel😂) but only 158 ft lbs of torque (crank… etc etc) I’m slow af but if I can ring out a few gears I’m flying, just takes me a lil bit. I think I’m also 3200 lbs. but I just thought it was interesting, I’m like the complete opposite of your GTI lol. I’m not quick but I am fast
I've got a Jaguar XF 3 litre diesel with only 240bhp, but has 369ftlb of torque and that feels like plenty. They remap to 320bhp and 425ftlb but I honestly can't imagine why you would want to!
I have a 3700lb station wagon with 250hp and 380nm and it's plenty fast to be honest. There's not many places around me where i can use all that power unless i'm towing something.
4000lbs and 255hp in my wagon. Currently shopping for something with over 400hp for my next daily. 255 isn't enough to get up to highway speeds on the 100 ft long on ramps we have. And 400 helps get around the idiots who speed up when you try to pass them because they're going 15 under in the left lane.
Yup, very much this. 300 hp feels quite fast to me in a small sports car or even a sedan.
300 hp in a large SUV or pickup can feel a bit anemic. My dad had a 2007 Ford Expedition EL with the infamous 5.4 Triton that put out 300 hp. It got around just fine, but 300 hp really wasn’t all much for a 6,000 lb SUV. It was not fast.
Eh, my wife's RAV4 Prime still feels pretty quick with 302hp pushing 4300lb.
It's certainly not as fast as the same hp pushing more than a thousand pounds less in my STI or my former Cayman S, but it definitely feels a step up from just "sensible".
I always felt that my old Charger r/T was a pretty good balance. Big engine, big car, 375 HP, around 5 seconds 0-60.
Shopping for a new car now and some of the B58 powered BMWs (M340, x3 M40) are almost a second faster but the speed has this really liquid feel to it, like you hit the gas at 40 mph and all of a sudden you're at 85. Fast, but without the visceral drama of a big rumbly V8 in a big car.
390p actually. Not bullshitting here - dynos have proved this and the exact same engine was rated 390hp in the Ram lineup.
When the 5.7 was last refreshed in 2009, the engine for the SRT package was the 420hp 6.2L Hemi. Because of that the 5.7L was purposefully underrated for the Charger/Challenger to keep those sweet sweet $10k SRT package sales. Didn't underrate them for the Rams because the 6.2L Hemi was never offered in them.
My Polestar is heavy (4700 lbs) but has 546 lbs of torque. It feels fast for its weight (which is just so goddamned much) but it’s probably because I’m used to econoboxes. And the EV instant power delivery thing.
P/W of like .096 but I have no real idea if that’s good or not. People obsessed with much more than this are either professionals or, hopefully, driving safe. That’s a lot of power.
I suppose, but I mean more so people talk about cars like an S2000 or Pontiac Solstice or FRS/BRZ being slow even if it's set up to push 300hp. I'm aware on some real heavy and soft-chassis BMW with a V8 it's not big, but on an I4 or I6 coupe 2-seater or 2+2 it's a decent level of ability.
I suppose, though on the Solstice GXP at least it had a pretty good K04 to back it up. Low lag on that makes it pretty good once you're really adding throttle.
It's just comparative. 30 years ago you could buy a new ferrari or a BMW M5 car with just over 300bhp. That wasn't slow at the time so why is it now?
Go back to the 1950s and little sports cars had well under 100bhp, they were fun and popular and not slow at the time.
I know a guy who said the Lotus Elise was the best car they ever drove. They are like 218hp and the car weights like 1500lbs. Mid engine kept it balanced.
Yeah, my 375HP, 5800 lb Land Rover has what I'd call adequate power, but nothing anyone would consider fast by any stretch of the imagination. My GTI would absolutely mop the floor with it despite only having \~200HP.
My personal break points is 10, in generally anything with 10 pounds per horsepower or so is pretty fast.
There’s variables even within that though. My Polestar is beyond 10 pounds per horsepower but the AWD makes a difference. My trucks like 18 pounds per horsepower but it’s putting 1050 tq through a 10 speed.
Yeah, 10lb/hp is my fun threshold too. First time I drove a car that was 10:1 (late C4 Corvette) it changed my perspective. I've driven faster and slower, but 10:1 is where it starts to get fun
My car weighs nearly 5000 pounds. It needs every bit of its 480hp to make its 3.4 second 0-to-60 time. It's not light by any means, but it's still fun.
This is a really good point. Like my Bronco has over 300 hp and 325 tq and while it has enough "get up and go" to pass cars and daily drive, it isn't anything exciting nor is it designed to be. The WRX i had had less power but was fun (Same with my Focus ST).
I had an RSX-S as my first 'grown-up car' that had 200hp at 2800lbs. I felt like that was plenty quick, P/W of .071, essentially the same as a 1st gen 86/BRZ
Then I owned an S2000, so 240hp at 2800lbs. P/W of .085, but no torque to speak of.
Now I'm in my genesis with 311hp at 4000lbs, P/W of .077
If .071 was adequately quick, why wouldn't .077 be? I think the Genesis has plenty of zip when I want to get on it, even if tossing 2 tons around in the corners seems like too much inertia for me.
I think it's more a factor of car guys chasing numbers and the pony cars having crazy high HP now comparatively. You can still get in plenty of trouble with the power to weight ratio that sport compacts provide. The frame of reference for people in the community has just shifted, but most normal people think 300hp still has plenty of zip in anything that's not an SUV.
I'm not sure what the elderly 305 in my 86 camaro has left for horsepower but in that chassis with a 5 speed and not much bogging it down but it's own shadow it feels like ample power at all of like, I dunno 100hp or something by now? I mean, it's not great by any measure by today's standards.
It feels like it wants to go faster than the suspension and handling will allow it to control and is fun and engaging to drive imo.
It really is a combination of things, and these days the horsepower rating is meaningless to me as a measure without considering the overall vehicle combination.
CoPart is littered with balled up over powered but otherwise ill equipped "performance" cars.
I have a 2016 Altima S with a CVT that hasn't shit the bed yet, rated at 182 HP, 180 ft/lb torque, about 3200 lbs curb weight. I also have a 2018 Dodge Journey Crossroad, 6 speed auto, 3.6 liter V6, rated at 283 HP and 206 ft/lb torque, about 4300 lbs curb weight.
Neither are fast or powerful for what their class, of course, but if you put the two against each other, the Altima will win every time. Even if there is a better HP to weight ratio with the Journey, I'm pretty sure it all comes down to the CVT here, because it's able to keep a pretty consistent gear ratio up to a certain speed, so you can just go WOT, it'll try to keep the engine revving around 5k by adjusting the CVT as speed increases, and so you're more consistently nearing max torque and HP without getting too close to the red line.
Exactly. 300hp in a 1000kg Miata is borderline insane.
300hp in a 2500kg SUV is meh.
Also depends how the engine develop its power. If it has a lot of torque at low revs, 300hp will feel a lot more than an engine with all of its power in a very high and narrow power band for daily driving.
People who still care about 0-60 over 40-80 confuse me. How often are you going to be flooring it from a dead stop vs how often are you going to be going from driving through towns and residential areas to highway speeds?
On city streets you don't even need much acceleration. Most people drive slowly anyways. My 1984 Mercedes 300SD goes 0-60 in 14.5 seconds and still accelerates faster than most people drive.
0-whatever is irrelevant because no one reasonable is going to abuse their clutch or tires to get those numbers on a regular basis. 5-40 or 5-60 with a rolling start is much more sensible to get an understanding of speed while a description of shift quality/engagement can tell you how soon you can drop the hammer.
Yea I mean, city limit has a speed limit of 30 but no one adheres to it and cops sure as shit don't enforce anything.
I'm not saying I do 40 down residential areas of the city, but like the larger 4 lane main arteries where there's no foot traffic? Sure, be smart and safe but have a little fun with first and some of second gear.
Yup, if I manage to be first in line at the red light I get to have my little fun with 0-40 and blow every other car away. If I'm lucky the next light is green.
Driving in Chicago at least low speed acceleration is a total non issue in pretty much any car. The only time performance really shines is merging onto the interstate or maybe the occasional passing situation.
Because people think drag racing is real racing. I'd love to drop them in Appalachia and see if they can still have fun and stay on their side of the yellow line.
They aren't talking about track driving, they're talking about on-street.
How often are you going to be flooring it from a dead stop vs how often are you going to be going from driving through towns and residential areas to highway speeds?
Same with OP. They can't possibly be talking about track and drag strip driving, because obviously that would be a silly question. Faster is better. Track, absolutely. I'm sure your Supra works great for drag setups while also being competent on a proper track.
But on the road 900 horsepower and whatever you've shaved off the 0-60 isn't going to make a difference over a stock Supra around actual fun roads. Places like the Dragon or other tight mountain roads found all along the east coast of the US. Consecutive switchbacks, blind corners due to forest and cliffs, lots of rain and debris, narrow spots and no shoulder, pedestrian traffic, bikers and horse riders, with nearest makes no difference no straightaways. And those are the ones in good condition, often they become washed out and sometimes just dirt or gravel.
Even if we stop caring about other people on the road the physics of having half the 0 to 60 time doesn't matter when a blind turn is so tight you hit wheel lock. At that point it doesn't matter if the vehicle has 100 or 1000 hp because the most speed you'll carry through that turn is going to be dependent on suspension setup, tire grip, weight balance, and oversteer-understeer characteristics, and braking ability. And with 900 hp on tap, unless you're doing the whole thing in first gear I can't imagine you're going to be using enough of your available revs to make it any fun.
Of course if somebody lives in the midwest then who cares. They don't have any fun roads, All they have are flat roads and stop lights anyway.
I was always a roll guy but after getting my F90, nothing comes close to launching a car like this from a stop in terms of fun. And it's a lot safer than having fun at much higher speeds. 0-50mph from a stoplight will put a huge smile on your face in an AWD performance car. I don't even use launch control, just brake boosting will launch hard enough to pin your eyeballs to the back of your skull
This is exactly why I love AWD and can’t stand “just get red and winter tires bro” advice when ppl ask for AWD cars. Hard launches are fucking awesome.
0 to 60 is definitely more important than 40-80 IMO. You're never going to go 40-80 unless you're moving from a county highway onto an entrance ramp and that gives you a ton of space to go from 40-80.
We have a ton of red lights, stop signs, traffic, and 0-60 comes in most handy.
I do 40-80 like 10x what I do 0-60. Any on ramp, coming off a slower turn, coming around people you’ve been stuck behind, etc. Only people who don’t do similar must never use the freeways.
A lot, those are probably the most realistic performance characteristics. How quickly a car goes around the Nurburgring, or a car's top speed, are totally irrelevant for normal street driving. But flooring it from a standstill or while merging onto the highway are things that you can do often and safely without risking the lives of people around you. I'd say those two are the most realistic performance metrics that most people can relate to, so it makes sense that those are used to judge a car's relative performance.
I think the 5-60mph time is also important to include in real world driving estimates, since you're not going to be using launch control from a red light in nearly all practical cases lol.
I don't understand the point of "top gear" metrics. I don't even cruise in top gear at 30 mph, that's 4th gear or maybe 5th if I'm trying to be super eco. If I want to accelerate quickly from 30 mph, I downshift to 3rd.
dude that's crazy they do that in turbo cars. Maybe it's fine because they're stock but I've seen people blow up turbo cars lugging their engine like that.
Yeah but for real world purposes it’s completely useless. No one cares what top gear 30-50 is between cars since no one will ever do 30-50 in top gear if they’re actually trying to accelerate.
They are outdated metrics from a time when every performance car had a big NA motor with a 5 or 6 speed manual, to see how lazy you could get without downshifting.
I do appreciate a vehicle with enough torque to handle a small grade without gear hunting, but in an era where most vehicles now have forced induction, it's actually not ideal to lug a turbo like that with high throttle, low RPM. The metric is also highly dependent on gear ratios and engine displacement.
They should just retire top gear stats, or replace them with something more relevant to the real world, like 50-80 or something in that range and leave gearing out of it. Quite a few one speeds on the roads these days, not to mention most vehicles with more than 6 gears will lock out top gear at those speeds if the engine speed is too low.
No using launch control in your acceleration numbers should be life in prison. It’s a completely useless thing in all real world applications for normal cars.
Nurburgring times are absolutely not irrelevant for street driving because the Nurburgring is a country road at its core. It's a lot more relevant than standing starts. Rolling starts are relevant because passing and on ramps but standing starts are rarely something you have an opportunity to do unless you live in the boonies.
The only people that are pushing cars at 100% on the road are Nissan Altima drivers. You could make the argument that cars that are designed to be quick around the Nurburgring are typically more compromised road cars because of stiff suspensions and catering more to track performance than what you'd be doing on a normal drive.
And I live in the heart of traffic in Atlanta and still find space for some aggressive standing starts here and there, so not sure how true that last statement is.
If you live in Atlanta then you also would benefit far more from rolling pulls and handling since you get into some absolutely amazing twisties basically as soon as you get outside of 285.
Of course you also have Road Atlanta right there and can just go play on a track. Which is another reason I might move that way.
Nurburgring times are absolutely not irrelevant for street driving because the Nurburgring is a country road at its core and so reflects real handling at speed.
How often are you on a country road doing triple digit speeds pushing the car 100% to its limit?
1/4 or 1/8 mile times would give more info than 0-60 though. Two different cars could have the same 0-60 time, but very different numbers in the 1/4 mile. A car that can launch off the line well can mask a bit of slower top end against a car that might not launch as well but has better in gear acceleration. The car with better in gear acceleration would be faster in 95% of the ways that it matters in the real world
Sure, but I think it's almost splitting hairs. You're never going to get the same 0-60 time on the street as advertised with prepped tires and rollout and what not anyway. But it's a quick and easy way to gauge how fast a car feels, and no one who is doing any of these things is actually measuring the data that they'd be getting while they did it on a normal road anyway.
You just listed all the reasons why 0-60 sucks as a metric. That's why the 1/4 measures trap speed, so you can see what speed a car reaches within a certain distance and correlate that with the ET over the 1/4 mile. Therefore you can tell how well a car launches, whereas 0-60 obfuscates that data.
A car with AWD could do a half second better than the same car without in the 0-60. If 0-60 is the performance metric you are going by, you might think it would pull harder than the other one on the highway, but nope, in gear acceleration would be the same. If you use 1/4 mile data, you would be able to see that difference.
Well that's the point, it's easier to tell from 1/4 mile time how a car will feel than from a 0-60. Two cars with the same 0-60 doesn't tell me much, but if one has a slight longer 1/4 mile time but a higher trap speed than the other, it tells me that car might not launch as well but is faster once it hooks up. That is way more info on how a car feels than 0-60
Realistically the 0-60 is going to correlate extremely well with the 1/4 mile and two cars with the same 0-60 might differ in the 1/4 by like a couple tenths of a second which translates to \~2% (unless you are comparing an ICE to an EV I guess.)
0-60 doesn't give you the how, that 1/4 mile gives you. Again, two cars could have the same 0-60, and even the same 1/4 mile time, but one might have a slower trap speed than the other, meaning one hooked up better off the line, and the other accelerates harder in gear. Way more information. 0-60 doesn't tell you that at all.
The 1/4 mile time is made up of a combination of things like traction, weight, power and aero, the trap speed pretty much removes traction from equation. The relationship of those two numbers is what tells you how it actually gets to those times. Low trap speed would have good traction off the line, AWD for example. High trap speed, more about the power.
I think it gives you a much better overall picture of acceleration than a 0-60 time does. If I was choosing between two cars car that had the same 0-60; if I wanted one that was great a stop light races, I'd get the one that had the lower trap speed, but if I wanted one that was great at highway pulls the one that had the higher trap speed would be faster. 0-60 can't tell us that. Additionally 0-60 tells us nothing above 60, so 1/4 gives us greater resolution as well.
Maybe you drive differently from other people? I never pass up the opportunity to do a pull from a dead stop. If I'm alone, traffic is clear, and I don't see any cops, then I'm going to run through the gears.
For rolling performance, I just focus on quarter mile trap speeds, since it's a measure of power-to-weight plus aero efficiency. You can botch the launch and still trap pretty much the same speed. So it quantifies how hard the car will pull from any speed.
Below 90 - dog
90-100 - mediocre
100-110 - getting into quick territory
110-120 - most people would call this a fast car.
120-130 - this is top shelf performance, I think Hellcats and GT500s are in this neighborhood.
I upgraded from a '12 k04 GTI to a G70 3.3t with an ECU tune and I can tell you I use the power in the G70 far more often.
The GTI was faster past 60mph, but getting there was a PITA with wheel hop and torque steer. Then once it's fun you're breaking the law.
The G70 definitely has tiny turbo syndrome (huge low end torque with trailing top-end power), but to be able to smash the gas and HOOK no matter what is so much more joyful day-to-day. 3.8s 0-60, grin, and stop before breaking the law.
I'm still on my stock turbo, stage 1.5 tune, stage 2 clutch, V3 throttle response booster, CAI, turboback exhaust and this thing is amazing from launch. The GTI has great low end torque as is, so tuning it only improves that. Which means at lower RPMs you should be easier on the throttle to avoid that wheel hop. I still overdo it from time to time, but when I don't it's smooth as butter off the line with oomph.
Honestly, the main reason I shifted from 0-60 to 40-80 is because there are so many fuckbombs chilling in the left lane going slower than they should be who will try to stop you from getting around them. Knowing I have a car capable of dealing with their shit while already near highway speeds brings me a little bit of joy as I smile going past them.
Almost no big highways in my area, just twisty mountain roads with a 55mph limit.... and lots of sharp turns and stop signs at steep inclines... soooo.... 0-60 awd is really fun here, and 40-80 rwd is how you fly off a cliff.
Yeah, 5-40 and 20-120 are more important than 0-60. I hardly ever go from a dead stop simply because of the impact of the launch, but I love going from an idle roll or a suburban speeds roll up to highway or triple-digit speeds.
Every time you get on the freeway. The problem is that most modern cars can reach freeway speeds quickly but the drivers don’t use it. Instead they mozy onto the freeway going way too slow instead of matching speed and create dangerous conditions.
Yup. My pickup can hit interstate speed by the end of all but the shortest ramps. And it's slow by current standards. Ain't nobody with a car newer than about 2015 missing the power to hit end of the ramp at speed, they're just not good enough drivers to actually do it.
You nailed the problem. Today’s cars have fantastic performance. Most drivers lack the skills or the will to utilize it and the roads are more dangerous for it. The irony for me are the drivers who buy “fast” cars with no intention to use any of it. I guess we can categorize it as the same wasteful excess as people who drive large trucks to their office daily.
yeah fwd problems, i have to rely on my right foot traction control if i want to not spin in first or second. Give me that good mid-range speed and grip every day.
I agree, 300bhp. - that's awesome! 5 seconds from 0 to 60 is fast, and that's enough for normal driving. Yes, there are faster cars, but if you don't race, who cares? The main thing is that you can accelerate easily and enjoy driving!
People are obsessed with horsepower wars. 300 up to 400 hp is about as much power as you can use on the street and even then I doubt you’re using 75% of that for the daily commute. We have a 23’ SQ5 and it’s complete overkill for the road. Have also owned multiple Porsches and we also now have a new accord hybrid which is my preferred daily. Quick enough and 44 mph. What’s not to love? Lol
I currently own an '03 Lancer Evo pushing only 315 awhp. I've been in some more pushing some more power.
I have plenty of fun with mine and I think 350 whp would be the sweet spot for that car. Perfect amount of power for the driving roads I frequent. I wish more people appreciate the Evo in a more stockish form, as a lot of people like to push a lot of power in Lancer Evos.
They both make rear engined flat plane crank v8 supercars, have won a lot at le mans, have yellow badges, and are vaguely associated with horses. Tbf they're basically the same company.
Well, less a car brand and more of "a scammer that mostly runs a custom and modification shop where they steal parts from some clients to make cars for other clients and which occasionally makes a kind of new car by haphazardly chopping up other manufacturers' cars and gluing them together with hopes and wishes and American flags."
I work at COTA and one of them came out for a track day. It broke the track record, then proceeded to literally blow fire and black smoke out of the exhaust and they retired the car for the session 💀
I’m a track marshal, mainly for track days we just sit and flag if something happens, but it’s pretty chill for the most part. Occasionally I’ll sit in for pit lane or race control which is nice. You get to see some cool cars, but it is a bit brutal in the Texas heat sometimes.
Where is this coming from? I’ve never interacted with them just curious. I’ve seen some amazing builds from them, even a dude at my gym has a rad Hennessy truck.
Hennessey has been a POS for decades, and his shop was a complete shit show back in the day. Even if he is clean as a whistle now, even if his business is legitimate finally (unlikely); he got to where he is by lying cheating stealing and scamming. He always had the right friends to pull it off. Hennessey Performance has made a small fraction of the cool shit you probably think they have. Most of their packages and kits are simply off the shelf from other companies (Whipple, VMP, etc) and he just puts his name all over it.
Ive enjoyed watching that guy on plenty of videos. He would probably be cool to hang out with etc. But its difficult to just ignore the past (and likely the present behind the scenes). It sort of sucks for America that this was apparently our closest thing to Mate Rimac or Christian von Koenigsegg. John Hennessey probably couldn't repair a toaster oven.
I saw a Hennessey Audi RS Q8 recently, and the owner happened to be coming back to his car. He's the only person I've ever met who has interacted directly with John. This guy raved about John, the company, and the performance of his car. I'm not saying he's a good guy or has a good company, just relaying one interesting perspective i heard. The audi did sound mean as fuck.
He's started a number of companies after getting busted doing whatever with the previous one, but I haven't heard of him scamming anyone in like five-six years (last time was all the veterans he screwed out of their GI bills.) So maybe he's finally turned a new leaf after leaving behind hundreds of victims if not more. Maybe not. Who knows? He has to deliver at least on some promises so maybe you will be lucky if you send him your Q8 or whatever. :)
At one point you could look at the Public court docs for the county they were in and there were like 115 active litigations against him because he never paid suppliers and stole parts off customer cars to finish other cars.
Named Hennessey before Dodge, Aston Martin, and Mercedes. There's also Pininfarina and soon Lotus. It's actually easier to name companies that don't have a kilohorse offering.
How about we start naming more affordable cars where not only 120 were made.
These cars are hardly on the road, while other brands are making sub 1000Hp cars but by the thousands. Look how many hell cats were made, C8 stingrays etc. these are more common on the road than any of the names you listed.
I mean, a Hellcat would also be considered not affordable by most people — they start at $80,000. Same with the C8 Stingray. And neither is more common where I live than the Taycan Turbo S or the Lucid Air Grand Touring Performance. Both have (or will have) sales much higher than "120."
The problem with focusing on things that are "affordable" is that it's entirely relative and subjective. The median household income in the US is about $80k, and most people aren't buying cars worth an entire year of household income, nor would they see them as "affordable."
I mean I’ve 8 C8 stingrays at my dealer alone (my place of employment) and hellcats are known to be one of the most financed vehicles on the market to folk with credit scores lower than 750…
Maybe it’s where I live but the other vehicles mentioned would only ever be in states such as California or Florida (for those like me who do reside in the states) and over the pond it would really be vice versa. Here in MI hellcats, red eyes, scat packs are very very common, and there’s only like two mclarens in the whole state haha.
Yeah... well I think the Italian companies are real jagoffs, so I hesitate to even mention Ferrari... and don't even get me started on that Pizza-pasta-waffle car company, Dodge.
(/hj, how did we get from Countach to whatever bs name they have now?)
My point is that people don’t buy supercars because of how fast they are. That part of it, sure, but no supercar buyer is cross shopping in the Chevy dealership.
They actually are. I've met a great many people with huracans, 458s, 488s, F8s etc that also have a C8Z06 in the garage.
Not really cross shopping against, but buying it in addition to those. I hear a common consensus that most like driving the C8Z more than the Huracan but less than the newer Ferrari's.
The E-Ray and ZR1 are coming really close to 200k in Canada. I don’t know how expensive the cheapest supercar is at the moment, but it’s gotta be close.
Nah, not the only thing. It's got some build quality jank to it, from the mass manufacturing process. Misaligned panels, kinda crappy paint, crooked stitching on the leather... Still love minez though!
I mean, they are cross shopping supercars absolutely. My friend for example. His garage is: 720S, Huracan 610-4 supercharged, E63S and he has a Z06 on order and not a different exotic. Another friend of mine went from a 720S and C6 ZR1 to selling the 720S for the C8 Z06. So you are absolutely wrong that the C8 Z06/ZR1 are not in the conversation and comparisons with the exotic supercars. R8’s for example also used to have a 420hp V8 version that could be had fairly cheaply. People weren’t going around calling the R8 not a supercar because of that.
It’s the same people calling the Corvette a supercar that called the R8 a supercar along with the GTR.
Honestly, I don’t think you have the same understanding of what a supercar is that I do. And that’s fine, since it there isn’t one definition that everybody will agree on.
I’ll say it again, when you see 20+ of a car everyday, it can’t be a supercar. When many people could stretch and buy one, it’s not a supercar. It’s a sports car: supercars have rarity and exclusivity. The corvette doesn’t. It’s an Everyman sports car. A great one that can compete and beat many supercars from a performance perspective, but it’s not a supercar.
I mean, you’re wrong though, and borderline psychotic for implying that an R8 is not a Supercar. Your entire opinion was invalidated with that sentence. The C8 Z06 is well within supercar price range, and costs just as much and more than many gently used exotics (which are still supercars FYI). Not to mention that the ZR1 will be full on exotic pricing and exclusivity. The existence of a lower trim car does not negate the prestige of a higher trimmed car. A Huracan has like 15 variants at various performance levels for example. A Senna is considered a Hypercar. Its bones are a 720S. Having a lower model does not take away from the higher level model.
Of course not. But if you aren’t even going to give a realistic answer, your entire opinion is invalidated. Nobody would imply the R8 is not an exotic supercar. It’s quite literally a re-skinned Lamborghini. Give a ridiculous opinion, get a ridiculous answer.
Enjoy your corvette, but don’t let your passion for them blind you into thinking your opinion is widely shared.
The R8 is not exotic. It has an exotic motor, but it’s an Audi. With a Lamborghini, the “skin” is a large part of what makes it exotic.
We’re done here. If my opinion is “invalidated”, what is yours? At least I am an impartial 3rd party with no axe to grind. You are not. You are a zealot.
If you had more than a couple of brain cells to rub together you’d notice my flair and see that I don’t even own a Corvette at the moment. I’ve literally never In my life someone try to say the Gallardo/Huracan are supercars, but an R8, which is the same car mechanically, is not. Lmao.
People have noticed plenty. It's just when you do such a shit job managing your performance offerings (CT4 didn't get a facelift with the CT5, Camaro was basically left to rot for the past 5 years), noticing isn't always enough. That said, the C8 has been incredibly popular, so there's plenty of noticing going on.
I suppose I did, though not intentionally. It was meant to convey that the Cadillac's share technology, such as the Alpha platform (from the Camaro, which had the CT5 BW's power train as well). That's too mean, the Corvette is kind of the last one for GM performance, it seems. I doubt there's anything for the rest of GM after the Blackwings retire.
CT4/5 were alpha Platform, same as Camaro. They shared powertrains across all trims, and even suspensions in the Black wings. The Cadillacs were targeting a different market, and obviously more luxury focused, but they're still more alike than different.
Your comparison makes no sense as Chargers never shared a platform with any Alfa(or any of the post merge brands). People aren't just lumping them together because they're both GM. When discussing performance/driving dynamics they're pretty damn similar because they share all the parts that affect those things.
Check out the "GTO vs. GTO" road test comparo that Car And Driver magazine did back in the 60's, when they pitted Pontiac's version against Ferrari's version. It was deliberately done to ruffle folks' feathers.
The C8 is a great car, though compared to a Porsche GT car or Ferrari, it doesn't feel quite as nimble or light on its feet. The Europeans are still just a bit more effortless and telepathic feeling in their handling and a bit better balanced overall, though for the price difference, Chevy has done a truly phenomenal job. You also definitely can't argue with the raw pace they can deliver, especially at a given price point.
The Corvette ZR1 features a 5.5L, twin-turbocharged DOHC flat-plane crank V8 engine dubbed the LT7.
The LT7 engine produces 1,064 horsepower at 7,000 rpm and 828 lb-ft of torque at 6,000 rpm, per SAE guidelines — the most power ever from a factory Corvette and the most powerful V8 ever produced in America from an auto manufacturer.
Corvette ZR1 boasts a GM-estimated top speed of over 215 mph on the racetrack and will dispatch the quarter mile with a
GM-estimated sub-10-second time. Purposeful carbon fiber aero package creates over 1,200 pounds of downforce at top speed.
ZR1 revives one of the most iconic styles in Corvette history: the split rear window.
Surprisingly, they have done business numerous
Times , including the implementation of magnaride
In earlier, ferrari models , which originates from 1990s
Cadillac/GM/Delphi tech that was used on the ZL1 .
Performance wise, Ferrari & GM have a lot in common
When it comes to the Z06 & ZR1 trim levels .
Funny enough my mechanic did the same once when comparing repair costs. Two cars were in for the same pulley. One was a Chevy and one a Ferrari. Explained the part looks identical on both but the Ferrari one is 14x the price.
The only people who actually call these cars slow are edgy keyboard warriors, there’s a concept on the internet that says the more engagement like comments and likes the post gets the more the algorithm will boost it to other viewers, that’s why hot takes like “300hp is slow” get so popular, because they’re not! The comments are full of people engaging and arguing about these takes.
Anyways it really doesn’t matter at the end of the day, as long as you enjoy your ride and think 300 is enough for you stick to it, if you get the itch for more power go for it! And always remember, 99% of the kids who call anything under 400hp slow are either driving a clapped 99 civic or something their dad bought them
300 horsepower is more power than most people can handle. I was born in 1990 and growing up through the 90’s and 2000’s 300 horsepower was still considered a lot of power for a car and honestly it still is.
My first car was an Acura RSX with 200 horsepower and that was plenty to get my 16 year old dumbass in plenty of trouble.. As an adult I’m grateful and thankful I didn’t have a 300+ horsepower car at that time and I am genuinely concerned for the kids that are new drivers I see now that are rolling around in 4-500 horsepower modified cars like N54 3 series that you can purchase for extremely cheap. That wasn’t even an option when I first got my license.
The issue is the internet has made people think that anything under 1000 horsepower is “slow” and most people commenting and giving feedback don’t even own cars so it’s a black hole of misinformation that is going to get people killed. The culture is terrible, nobody has respect for power anymore and reckless driving has been made so much more available due to cheap power and unrealistic expectations of the machines limits and capabilities.
Currently I have a Tesla Model S Plaid. I have had around 25 cars to date, I’ve modified the majority of them. I have had built motors, added superchargers, upgraded turbos etc etc and have had some wildly fast cars. The Tesla is probably the fastest car I’ve owned and frankly it is absurdly fast beyond what any person could ever even use on the street. I respect the hell out of the power and rarely drive it to its potential unless the circumstances are right. The only places people should be pushing their cars to the limits are on a track. I have no issue with someone gunning it on an open highway or empty back roads away from civilization, but the things I’ve seen on social media and on the streets (like people weaving in and out of traffic on the highway) truly shows how little respect people these days have for the power these modern day cars produce.
300 horsepower is more power than most people can handle.
LOL pretty much anything that isn't an economy car is 300+hp, including minivans.
I was born in 1990 and growing up through the 90’s and 2000’s 300 horsepower was still considered a lot of power for a car and honestly it still is.
Guess what? It's not 1990 anymore. Technology has advanced a lot. Cars are more powerful and better handling. If your car was made in the last decade and has fewer than 300hp it probably is an economy level car.
The only nonsense is your ignorance of the market. Even the Rav4 is available with over 300hp and you're out here talking about that being more than people can handle. Stop projecting your terrible driving skills on everyone else
petulant arrogant manner too.
lmao go remind the teacher that homework is due, you dork.
It was 400hp at the crank, and at 4600rpm. One needs to consider the torque curve too.
The 8L V10 made massive torque so you're going to feel that oomph even at low RPMs.
You're near the peak of that 465 ft-lbs torque curve even below 2000RPM.
It’s like building tolerance to a drug. Sure, it feels good, but eventually it’ll just feel normal. Then you need more to feel good again. It’s a vicious cycle until you OD.
Was I happy with my 440 horsepower 4th gen Camaro? Yes. For a while.
Was I happy with my 600 horsepower C5 Corvette? Yes. For a while.
Am I in the middle of twin-turboing that corvette and shooting for 1,000+. Yes. Will I get bored eventually? I hope not. Will I OD on horsepower? Probably. Will I have an amazing time doing it? Absolutely.
Chasing the dragon of performance, it happens with pc gamers too, if they're not gaming at 4k 240 fps on max settings they feel cheated and 60 fps is considered too low a frame rate.
For me, that need for speed declined as I got older. I built a low 10 second 1g AWD DSM when I was 20 and romped on that thing as a daily for a while. But in my 40's, I just don't drive that crazy anymore.
This is exactly why I have a hard time driving anything under 400hp. Im so used to being loud and fast that a car feels broken if it’s quiet and/or slow.
I was the opposite. My sports car evolution went 73 914, 13 Club Spec Miata, 18 Fiat Abarth Spyder. 99 Dodge Viper
After I got the Viper I figured out you can't use the power most of the time. Flooring onto the highway is fun, but cruising 70 mph at 1700 rpm is boring.
So I got an old slow Ferrari. It loses to trucks on onramps when they don't know I am flooring it. The Ferrari is exciting at 70mph on the highway. It is more fun to floor around town, but on a 30 mph road it just wasn't being pushed.
So I got the Morgan and it is at its best 60 MPH and under.
I hit that point with my mustang got to around 1200whp or so and just got tired of the car i think it was really moreso me realizing i didnt enjoy drag builds quite as much as i thought i would. In all seriousness once you hit 750+whp you've already got an incredibly fast car.
I've still got my belaks from the og owners setup, they still have relatively fresh ET Street Rs on them. I don't think I'll ever take this back to a drag setup hmu if your interested in buying them lol
I know, my dad just got a Z4 M40i delivered in September, and it’s SO FUCKING FAST. I drove it a couple times and mashing the peddle just made me scream out “POWER! UNLIMITED POWER!” like I was Palpatine taking over the Senate.
I think just as important as power is power band. That’s why, for me, nothing can top an NA engine. I’m sure everyone loves the sound of a good NA, but for some people, they might not like having that low down power. But that’s what makes it fun to me, if you want the power, you gotta dance with the car and wring it out.
You’ll simply always be lower on torque compared to something boosted with a super or turbocharger, simple as, but I personally don’t care. Theres the added benefit of the predictability/smoothness of the power band, which very few boosted engines mimic well. Developments with mild hybrid systems have been great for smoothing that out though, but then you’re also adding weight.
At the end of the day, I agree with the desensitization thing you’re highlighting here for sure, but everyone just has their own favorite flavor which I think generally comes first in determining wants/preferences. I myself wouldn’t trade the song and dance for more power, even with a smoothly boosted engine. I just love how an NA’s power gradually kicks in as the engine starts screaming up to 7, 8, 9000 rpm (if you’re lucky enough to have something that goes that high!). That, to me, is pure bliss.
This is the way. I went from an 06 Mazda3 (stock, pointless in terms of performance) to the SL I have now, which is somewhere in the ballpark of double the power. At first it was kind of a lot, definitely had me smiling pretty much all the time. Well it's only a few months later and I'm starting to think I would like some more. It's quick but it's not fast. I got it up to around 140 on my test drive and it just felt calm, like a normal car doing 80. It didn't give me the feeling of going fast. But I tell you what doing 100+ in that Mazda was fucking terrifying. Definitely made some bad decisions on some country roads a few times.
Then again I've always had a bit of a problem with wanting to go really fast. That's kinda like the driving force in my brain. It's absolutely gonna get me killed one day. And I think that's the answer, some of us are just prone to wanting more power while some of us are okay with being reasonably quick. I think 300hp is plenty for 99% of people. Hell I'd be happy enough if I had that for the rest of my life. But I'd be even happier with something like 700.
If you’re going to go fast, doing it in a car that is stable at those speeds is the way to go.
I love the SL500s. The only downside is that modding them is pricey.
I’ve been eyeballing some W221 S65 AMGs since they are in the $15k-$25k range now. I believe Jeremy Clarkson said it “has enough torque to restart a dead planet.”
If you’re going to go fast, doing it in a car that is stable at those speeds is the way to go.
Oh absolutely. That was more to illustrate that the need for the feeling of speed is not met, while it does meet the requirement for fast. The Mercedes just doesn't give me the scary feeling of going fast but I much prefer the safety.
And yeah, I've been doing some light research here and there on modifying and it's not a thing that's going to happen quickly. I do have an overarching plan for the thing over the next 20 years. Dubbing it project SR-129 (want everything to be inspired by the SR-71). Not sure what that looks like yet.
lmao I've never heard that quote but from what I heard that makes sense. Shame they look the way they do. That's the main thing I love about the SL, the way it looks. And the $7k price tag for 85k miles and damn good condition. Someone lost a lot of money on that one.
This is why I like motorcycles for my occasional need for speed. My road bike is a KTM 890R, with 125hp and will do 0-60 in 3.5sec, 3 if I put it in launch mode. It's at the limit of what I consider comfortably-fun fast for public roads.
When I was racing, the tuned, track-only R1 was putting 218HP to the ground on a 435lb bike with 150lb rider. It was so fast that you HAD to be on focus mode to ride it safely at a spirited-pace or faster. It had no chill. It was simply scary fast.
Cars, by comparison, lie to us about how safe they are, especially with setups that make my R1 look slow. You don't feel the threat of death inherent in piloting a vehicle putting down 0.25-0.5 HP per pound when you're wrapped up in a climate controlled, safety-harnessed, 2k-lb+ steel cage of impact absorbing crumple zones & air bags.
So, in short... agreed, it's like a drug to us adrenaline junkies. Equally as addictive and dangerous. I don't buy sports cars because I don't want my drug to feel safe.
This is why motorbikes have ruined cars for me. My R1 is stupidly, irresponsibly fast for $22k OTD, but even my Ninja 400 feels faster than the 400+ HP cars I've driven. I can't scratch that itch with a car anymore so I'm not gonna go broke trying to.
I have a 2023 CBR600RR with some light modifications. It definitely scratches the itch sometimes. I just can’t handle that body position for more than 30-45 minutes at a time.
Me with my 139hp car always stuck being slow pokes with their 300hp cars 😤. I bet most drivers never floored their car even once. My car does the 0-60 in something like 10s and I’m always raging when the light turns green because everybody is accelerating soooo sloooowly!
139?? Try 54! Such a blast to drive! Foot to the floor everywhere, and braking is totally optional. Definitely get stuck behind the big hitters. Probably because they're expensive to drive harshly, right?
Canadian here, so km/h. Around the Toronto area almost a decade ago, I needed to pass another car on the highway. For a bit of background, folks in the Greater Toronto Area already drive about 20-over the limit (100km/h) on the highways as a norm, so this would be 120km/h. If you drive slower than that, such as... at the speed limit... people can get really pissy and erratic. So you need to speed at least a bit to be safest, haha.
Anyway, needed to pass this guy. Starting from typical following distance, I changed lanes then floored it until I passed the other vehicle's mirrors. This was over the span of maybe 3 or 4 seconds, at most, mind. Lots of beautiful sounds and inertia pinning you back into your seat. But I looked down at my speedometer and saw I was doing 160-170km/h already. This was barely a few seconds flooring it, and a rolling/running start, in a sense. Had to slow down immediately - at that speed, getting pulled over is an instant roadside impounding and license suspension. Never mind if the roads are totally clear or not.
This was (is) a mostly stock 2015 S4 with a 0-60 time of about 4.9 seconds and an on-paper (and understated) ~333hp. Over the years, it's proven plenty fast and powerful enough for my needs, but you legitimately cannot enjoy most of the potential of cars like this, within the confines of the law. You use about a quarter of the speedometer throughout the car's life on the roads, lol.
You need to be on the track to safely and legally floor any kind of sporty car for any appreciable amount of time. Even a couple of seconds is sometimes enough to start breaking laws. Ripping from a stop at a set of lights would be considered stunt driving here, in Canada, too.
I'd love it if we had our own set of autobahns, that's for sure.
Mostly just whoever’s on their phones, I have a tough time generalizing any one type of car in terms of slowness/not paying attention to the light.
But in DFW, pickups and Nissan cars are always flooring it. Porsches are less likely to floor it than a pickup (except the pickups that are carrying 5000 pounds of carpet).
I have no problem generalizing. These sensible SUV drivers leave with plenty of time to get to their destination because they're sensible. And the destination is just somewhere like the dentist for their quarterly cleaning or the recycling center to drop off old AA batteries because they're responsible, so they're not in a big hurry.
To be fair, 300hp usually means a good torque band as well so the car feels responsive at low RPMs. Luxury cars usually come with powerful engines even though they're GT cruisers because that low end response adds to the overall driving experience.
I’m also trying to get to work, I just want to get up to 60 without it taking over a minute because I’m behind someone with a twin turbo V8 that drives like my grandpa
You can get away with a lot more in a low hp car. Once you get something cops notice, the game changes. That's why those 300+ hp cars around you are often not busting out like you'd like them to...they are the ones who are going to get ticketed while you trail them.
One time I was in a hemi Jeep pissed off on my way to work, was hauling ass. Had a big group behind me keeping up. We pass a state trooper, he pulls out, guy in the back of the group gets pulled over. Rest of us continue on our merry way although I slowed down after that.
If you're the one behind you're the one getting pulled over, if you pull over. Which I would do but plenty of stories of that not being the best move in the end. I just don't want to gamble my life like that.
I left my cars exhaust stock but it still gets pretty loud. Sometimes I'll be at like 30% pedal and it can seem like I'm being a little rowdy, and something like a Prius or Tesla next to me must think I'm really getting into it because they'll literally floor it and I'm just like yeah dude, I'm not going to "race" you. In the case of the Prius its because there's nothing to prove and in the case of the Tesla I have no hope against an AWD EV off the line lol
I'm often concerned the cops think I'm slamming it but I'm just normally accelerating to the limit.
Car is rated 485 hp but I'm N/A and at 5k elevation, for reference.
While true, I think most people don't know what real speed or acceleration is. They just drive around with 300hp like they would in a 150hp car except for the occasional passing or stop light race. Like truck owners that use the bed twice a year. It's more knowing you have it than actually applying it.
I’ve been driving for more than 30 years, the last time I had a point on my license was in 2008 if I remember correctly. I’m not driving like a maniac, I’m just tired of car guys saying that you need a powerful engine or else your car is dangerously slow… while on the road nobody uses even half that power. You don’t even need 100hp to maintain a constant 80mph speed.
I don’t think you understand what I’m trying to say. I’m tired of drivers and journalists spouting that a 140hp car is dog slow or even dangerous, when me with such a car has absolutely no problem not only keeping up with traffic, but even being frustrated that this traffic is full of cars and trucks that can do the 0-60 twice as fast as me but decide instead of taking twice the time.
I use 80 to 90% of my car’s power daily, and I’m stuck behind drivers talking shit about my car but that use maybe 30% of their car’s power.
Dog in nursing my mpg most the time and not trying to zoom for 3 seconds then be at the same speed as everyone else until the next light when we all end back up together 😅
it's just math honestly, you have the exact same pumping losses while making less power because you're not WOT. In other terms your pistons still move and make the same friction for every stroke but are doing less work which makes it less efficient. As far as actual driving habits, usually people who accelerate too much are also on their brakes a lot, but assuming you know how/when to coast, accelerating quickly and smoothly is the best always.
Yeah all that makes sense, except when you factor in gears - optimising power delivery at each speed increment during acceleration. It's a balance between keeping revs low over a journey that might take a bit longer because you're at a slightly lower average speed... There's gotta be a tipping point where accelerating more quickly becomes detrimental - how quickly, Idfk. I doubt flooring it is where the threshold lies, though.
People get spoiled, they also engage in dick measuring contests over things like horsepower, any good automotive journalist can drive a hypercar with 1000hp and then get into a 180hp mx5 and tell you they're both great to drive just in different ways.
I would dare 'those people' to push the MX5 to the limit on a road with corners ;-) And I would ask again.
I also have an M240, which gets you up to 'straight to prison' speeds quickly and is almost no fun in corners. OTOH, it is very comfortable doing this :P
Yes 300hp is a lot, it’s just very common now for cars to hit that number. The tune and gear ratios matter as does torque and weight of the car.
A 5 second 0-60 car that can be tossed around is just as much if not more fun on the street than say a M3 or C63 AMG. Unless you are at the track, you can’t unleash the performance of a 600hp car. Straight line 0-60 isn’t everything.
I've driven fast cars making a lot of power. And I've driven fairly slow cars. 9/10 the lower HP cars are more fun. You can actually utilize all of the power. In the cars making more power I always had to hold back during a turn. On the line w hp cars I could usually throttle through a turn at high speeds.
Tho I will say on straight roads lower HP sucks. Those are the moments I wish I had a Corvette over a BRZ.
To add to this. Power to weight also makes a difference. Yes 300hp isn't really fast if your car weighs 3500+lbs. But if you weigh under 3000lbs that's a lot. For example my buddy had a 240sx that was gutted with a turbo KA. He was making about 320hp but the car weighs less than 2700lbs. That thing felt like a rocket. It could also get to pretty high speeds no problem. It would put my 23 BRZ to shame on the highway. And that's just with a turbo 4 cylinder. There are people doing LS swaps and JZ swaps making 600+HP. That doesn't even seem safe to drive. I'm sure it's scary AF.
I used to be content with 0-60 in 5s. Now I do 0-60 in just over 3s and it is way more fun. But like all power upgrades, it eventually just feels normal after a while and you get spoiled by it.
Some of the comments here are wild. My heavy ass Volvo XC40 dual motor has 400 hp and it is ridiculously quick for everyday use. 300 hp in something less heavy would be plenty quick and fun.
I feel like the smoothness of cars these days have screwed how people gauge fast. Some pretty quick cars based on distance/time are so smooth that people will just say they aren't fast bc they don't have that "throw you back" feeling like some older cars seemed to offer or ones with really high TQ.
My new tesla has the base model 3, and it has around 300 has, and I sane torque. It scares my fiancee with how fast it is on the road. I will definitely get someth9ng faster someday, maybe the new upcoming Cayman EV. Most electric vehicles are just so much faster than ICE cars of equal price points.
I'm right there with you though 300hp is perfect doe the streets unless you're a car enthusiast and really WANT more.
Yeah, electric's another world. One of the big balancing factors, especially for small engines with high output like in the S2K, was the buildup you'd need to achieve power. Electric just... beats it straight up. It's like having a 100% lagless turbo.
This! And man I was in high-school when the s2000 came out and would have loved to have owned one for a few years. That 9000rpm recline is just nuts. I just now prefer the ease of use and maintenance of an EV. Some friends that bought in 2018 have 60,000+ miles and have only had to replace tires and washer fluid. No belts, no broken hoses, pullies, injectors, spark plugs, head gaskets, radiators etc..I could go on and on...
Recently got my first 300 hp car. I love it.
But on street roads or even twisty countryside roads, it is sooo underwhelming. You can never reach the stop speed if you follow the law or if there is traffic.
You accelerate fast, it's fun, but suddenly you have to kill the mood. It is frustrating. It made me understand what people meant driving slow cars fast is more enjoyable.
Anyway, I'm considering taking it to the local track, but I've never done it and I know it can get pricy (insurance, set of tyres, and such)
I agree 100%. I am an experienced driver. I drive a track car with ~250HP. I balk at the poor souls with more money than brains. I live near the motor city, and every week, I read about some stupid schmuck, often teens, who take their dad's hotrod for a joy ride and wrap it around a tree. This is tragic. Clearly, there is an element of compensating for something, as there is absolutely no need for engines like this, even for enthusiastic motorists.
All depends on the car. 300 hp in a 2000kg car/suv? Might as well be a commuter car. 300 hp Miata? Damn near would feel like a supercar. Generally anything sub 5 0-60 is pretty quick in my eyes and you’d be able to take a lot of actual “performance” cars off the line if you have the skill to drive it to its max.
300 horsepower is at best okay for a street car now. But let’s be real 300whp has been easily achievable for a while now. Once you drive something 5-800+ you get very numb to 300. With production cars now easily getting 500+ it puts into perspective (atleast for me) how slow 300 is. The main thing that you’re forgetting is that opinions are like assholes, everyone’s got one. Don’t let others convince you that your car is “too slow” if you don’t feel that it is. Not everyone needs 1000 to have fun, but if we are speaking objectively, 300 is in fact slow in today’s climate. Of course, HP is not all that is in the equation, transmission behavior and what type of diff (and gears inside) you have makes a lot of difference. My point is enjoy what you enjoy and don’t let others ruin it or talk you down, having a high HP car is a double edged sword. It’s not always super fast fun, a lot of the time it can turn into a money pit and constant repair.
The first car I ever drove was an Aston Martin Vantage. It was a lot of fun, but in no way compares to my little 1960 Austin. It's got about 50hp and gets to 60 in 29 seconds, but I doubt I'll ever drive something more entertaining.
Fast cars make speed feel mundane. Slow cars will never do that.
To bring in a different perspective: In europe, most cars have 100-150hp - turbocharged, of course. To compare. I have driven a 150ps diesel (manual) and currently own a v6 mustang with 305 hp (automatic) - the skoda felt more punchy in some scenarios. Horsepower says NOTHING.
I am currently renting a 23 Charger GT and I will agree, it's fun to drive. It's not RT fun, it's not Scat Pack Fun and it sure isn't Hellcat fun. I will finish by saying.. I have the same engine in my 2024 Pacifica. Wanna race?
Personally 300 isn't "a lot", but it's definitely "plenty" for a regular commuter car.
I think beyond 350, the risk-to-fun would show diminishing returns for daily drivers.
I also feel the same about the "130hp" number, where below that the efficiency-to-practicality ratio starts to suffer.
Again, this is all with the average commuter car in mind. 350hp is probably not quite enough if you plan to haul a heavy RV with your truck, and 130 is likely plenty if you're into lightweight buggies and kei-cars.
People who live in places like Florida and Texas where there’s nothing but miles and miles of flat straight roads seem to be the ones who need 500+whp. Fair enough, got nothing to do other than highway pulls.
i've 100% noticed southern states like florida and texas have crazy powerful builds making 600+ hp. You're right on the flat roads, and why they need that power.
Living next to the holy grail of speeding (unrestricted Autobahn) going fast for a longer time gets boring for sure.
I'll take acceleration and cornering over raw HP anyday. Something light-ish with good tires and proper suspension is fun every single day you take it for a drive. No matter the destination or type of road.
Something like an F87 M2 hits the spot for me, great suspension, engine, gearbox and creature comforts. Somewhat economical as well.
Doing pulls in a proper straight line rocket is still fun as hell tho.
Drive the Chrysler Pacifica minivan. Less than 300 hp. Put it up against and older sports car and you will be amazed especially because it's a minivan. Then suckers are fast. It will blow your mind. Get the diablo tuner and then off the speed limiter and then have some fun.
I will add fuel to your fire. As a former owner of a car with 600HP I can say that no car needs more than 600HP to do anything on the street and in fact, that level of power makes it less fun to drive anywhere but a racetrack.
300hp was a lot by older standards, say late 90s to early 2000s, but in today’s standards it’s about expected for your average Joe sports cars- 350z/370z, GR Corolla, Civic Type R, Golf R, etc.
I’ve also noticed that many people see “300hp” and will immediately correlate that with lower expectations. 300hp is a lot to anyone who’s not experienced with faster cars and imo is an amazing entry point for anyone’s first sports car. Honestly, 200hp is a safer range for a first timer.
There are many cars that come stock well over 300hp nowadays so it also just doesn’t feel as unique or special anymore. Most people that shit on 300hp are either inexperienced, don’t own a car, or have been in/own a way higher hp car and feel the need to announce the difference as if it were a bragging right.
In summary, 300hp is fast. Just not fast enough for some people. It’s also relative heavily to weight. A 300hp v6 charger isn’t going anywhere while a 300hp civic hatch is making moves, or god forbid a 300hp bike.
The trick is to match the power of the car with the amount of weight/grip/handling it can perform.
The 2004 VW R32 is a great example, it puts out 250 engine hp, about 220 awhp with mods. You can slam the throttle in the twisties and not worry about the tires spinning and causing a crash. Its more fun to drive slow cars fast than fast cars slow.
I remapped my 2013 Audi A5 3.0tdi coupe to 330bhp and 650nm and it feels rapid with the DSG gearbox, feels a lot faster than my old V8 4.2l S5 but that was manual. The V8 sounded better, but I get about 38mpg from the tdi rather than like 19 from the S5 lol
I have a 175 hp 3,000lb car, with a manual, and racing it is awesome🤣, the thing handles stupid af after $500 in the correct suspension and handling mods for fwd chassis dynamics, I daily it as well. Its cheap(ish), and an economy car, 27mpg, relatively easy to work on. Rides nice still. 0-60 in 8.5 seconds, and im working on a tune to maybe get a little more out of it. But who cares, momentum is your friend and you learn how to really drive! The looks I get after racing a grandpa mobiles heart out, screaming down the straight its great, and I get to hear it scream, if its not screaming and being maxed out, whats the fun🤷♂️.
My 2023 VW arteon has 300hp and it takes off. Being awd helps with that too. Most hp I’ve had in a car I’ve owned and I think it’s quite fast and very smooth.
I think it depends on the weight of the vehicle. My Mustang GT has 460hp but it’s huge. My buddies Audi S3 has about 300hp and it beats me off the line. I catch up in the 1/4 to win but the lighter car has way more of a throw you in your seat initially until the long legs of the coyote V8 catches up. 300hp is plenty for some vehicles. But if it were in my car or my wife’s SUV it’s not that much.
Gearing plays a part too. I had a 3.7 V6 Mustang, 300hp. On stock 3.15 gears it was slow af. Swapped out to 3.55s and it was much better. But tbh, it really needed 3.73 or 4.10. Ford put the 3.15 in it for fuel economy.
A lot of modern cars are geared way too long for fuel economy reasons. The IS500 should have much shorter gears. But Lexus geared it long for fuel economy and it kind of neuters the V8 a bit.
I have a 67 mustang with 2.79 gearing and a mild 302 probably not making even 300 and it still breaks the tires loose at 20mph in first. And I’m running 275 NT05s on it
Depends on the metric and if we're talking about manuals. Tighter gears feels better for acceleration but may be slower in measured testing since you may be shifting more times. For new automatics and dual clutch cars it matters little. I remember the Evo VIII and IX for example were "faster" with the 5 speed base gearbox vs the 6 speed MR gearbox. But I think that was mostly just down to more interruption of power because you had to shift more times.
100%, Gearing and modern transmissions make a massive difference. I recently switched from an 21' STI to a 24" S3. The STI is lighter and more power on paper. But my butt dyno tells me the S3 would absolutely blow the doors off the STI, DSG 7sp vs Manual 6sp.
OP, your 0-60, 5 second, 300hp vehicle, if transplanted into the 1970’s, or the 1980’s, would eat Chevelles, Challengers, TransAM’s, even corvettes of that era for lunch. None (few), were that fast, stock. They might catch you, but it would be at the end of a 1/4 mile race. Stop light to stop light, they’d have no chance.
It's the internet and people under 18 being showed by rich kids how 'average' something like 500-600-700hp is without ever having experienced it.
300hp is indeed way more than enough if you're not into racing or anything, even wrc2 rally cars 'only' have 285hp and they are rapid
With electric cars and all these cheaper more powerful offerings, 300hp is indeed not a lot anymore. It’s way too easy to get 400+ out of pretty much any sports car these days. A $4000 335i will do 400 wheel no problem.
I also have 2 cars that make over 500 wheel (pure turbo n54 daily and a meth injected m4 track toy) and whenever I drive a 300hp 5 ish second car I am almost lulled to sleep. Those cars take 13-16 seconds to go from 100-200kph and I’m just no longer accustomed to those “slow” speeds when my daily driver is doing it around 7-10 seconds faster.
I drive my gf's Kia Soul a lot and it's honestly not even fun like a lot of 90's shitboxes were. The throttle sometimes takes multiple seconds to respond and the steering has no feedback at all. Even taking turns near the limit of traction, I felt nothing other than her angry glares.
Agreed! Do I wish my mainly stock NB had another 20 or 30 horses? Sure. Doesn't keep me from enjoying it, one bit. As it is, it's fun without being scary on the road, and I can drive it hard and fast as much as I want without too much worry. Now, if it had 300 HP, I'd be scared shitless of spinning it. Where's the fun in that!? Sports cars aren't about statistics, they're about feeling connected to your machine, pushing the boundaries of your skill as a driver, learning to be a better driver, and above all else, enjoyment. We as a community need to be telling kids who ask "I'm 17, my parents gave me $x, and I want a fast car with a ton of power, what should I get?" to learn what driving is really about in a car that's not trying too hard to impress anybody with numbers. Miata, Toyobaru, Boxster, Nissan Z, BMW Z or old 3-series, you know the ones.
Is also about the weight/size of the car. My 2020 4Runner has 270hp and is slow as fuck. My 2020 Miata has about 200hp with mods and is pretty quick and if I were to do FI to it then it would be down right fast at 270hp. Look at the whole care car as a recipe with all sorts of ingredients. HP is just one of many ingredients that make up the entire car.
300 really ain’t that much in some cars. I have a 300hp v6 impala, and it moves pretty fast but it is not a “fun” or noticeably powerful car by any means
Guess really depends on where you live, street and traffic conditions etc. A plaid in NA, while absurd is still fathomable compared to if it was in let's say Japan.
Currently driving the new limited manual Z4 M40i with about 380 hp, and it's a blast. Nowhere as fast as an M3 or RS4, but MAN is it good fun. Have not felt it being "too fast to enjoy" once, it just puts a giant smile on my face.
Been hearing nothing but amazing things about that car. As an ND owner, the new manual Z4 seems like the next natual progression from a modem Miata. I want one so bad.
First 300hp car I drove was a maxima and that’s when I learned 300 ain’t a joke. Watching my mom and dad drive it like a grandpa all the time I thought it was slow till I put my foot in it.
Why I enjoy my current gen Maxima, that 300hp, I would enjoy it a hell of a lot more if wasnt married to the CVT. It suffers from torque steer when trying to enjoy the 300hp though.
300 wheel is about where you're faster than 95% of all other cars on the road and quick enough to get yourself in trouble, tickets, but also overtake quite safely and not feel like you're a slouch.
Anything over 300 wheel is more about being "faster than that other guy who has a grudge", aka the other 2-3% of the modified cars around your town who want to race you.
All my cars are about 300 wheel and get sub 6 second 0-60. My Talon was the fastest since it was AWD, 4.5 seconds flat. I'm currently upgrading the turbos on the Legnum so that may even do 4 seconds in the right conditions.
300hp it's pretty good, I went from 100hp no turbo to a 190hp with turbo and that shit blew my mind, then after a few years I went for an S4 with 340hp and 4.5s car and I love it even more, I tune it to make it 400hp and make it a 4s car and it was really fun...
Now I have a 3.2s car with 550hp and let me tell you this really blows my fucking mind, the difference is huuuuuuge
But I do agree with you anything with 300hp is a fun car, heck even 190hp I would say it's really fun as well,
It’s people driving automatics that want to be pushed back in their seat without downshifting
I remember being in high school and getting a ride in a ‘tuned’ Mazda wagon a friend was borrowing from a cousin. We were flying around the suburbs and the car felt plenty quick. After 15 minutes of that he mentioned the car had like 160hp wheel. He was just matting the gas and keeping the revs up
I don’t get why would you need such amount of power. To go from lights to lights? In my view sensible amount of power is the one that you can fully use. I would be frustrated with car that has 250+ hp cause I would know I cannot control or use that amount of hp.
Less power, less weight, more fun
As others have stated, the internet has ruined a lot of people’s perception of speed and EVs have commoditized cheap speed.
My car has 350hp. Does 0-60 in 5 seconds and feels fucking fast. I’ve driven a good amount of supercars/super sports cars and they’re all awesome, but my car never feels slow.
You are dancing around what I think is one of the most fundamental concepts in introductory statistics. Namely, being able to compare/contrast 'absolute' levels/differences with 'relative' level/differences.
My dream car is any generation Porsche GT3 touring, when I mentioned this to a fellow ‘car enthousiast’ I got the ‘but for that money I’d rather spend it on a car with more than 500 hp and a faster 0-60’.
I then realised that you can indeed look down on someone for their preference in cars.
I'm of the opinion that around 300 in a hatchback or smaller is the most you can really have fun with on public roads. Because they're not race tracks, and you shouldn't be hammering the limits of the car.
Track cars, well. Depending on what you're doing, more horses is probably necessary.
Look at all the drag racers with 1000, 2000, horses crammed under the bonnet to go a quarter of a mile. Wild, IMO kind of boring, but whatever gets their seats wet I guess.
300 is nothing. my daily is a mildly hopped up diesel and my toy is around 650 on methanol. Would like more turbo on the diesel and I'm currently figuring out nitrous for the toy. I'll find the time and the place to use it all whenever I feel like it. Try it it's fun.
My Mercedes CL55 AMG SUPERCHARGED V8 493 HP it’s fun to drive and the power is great.
Getting on the freeway or passing is such fun! My other car has 300 HP and feels slow. V8 needs lots of revs and the 7 speed auto to get out of its own way 550 SL Mercedes
Just go back a couple of decades and 300hp was insanely powerful and fast.
Its all relative.
You can have an amazingly fun drive in a 230hp car (eg. BRZ/GR86) that feels like you’re in a racing cockpit and going fast when under the speed limit,
or go around in an overpowered mustang that drives like a truck and feels like you’re sitting on a couch.
Horsepower isn't universal, ratio is. A Miata with 180 horsepower is HELLA FAST AND FUN, a Jeep grand wagoneer XL with 500hp is HELLA SAD AMD SLOW AND EMBARRASSING.
The people who are telling you 300hp is nothing drive 1. A six year old Mustang GT owned by the bank and financed at 15%+ or 2. An S2K their parents bought them
It's easy to pass judgement on the internet without having any real world experience. I went from a 70hp diesel hatchback to a 130hp Corolla sedan and it was a pleasant upgrade. Then further upgraded to a 250hp turbo forester and it's super fun. Sure it's not nimble and rolls all over the place, but I'm not carving corners daily, nor am I looking to set laptop times. I'm just looking to have a bit of fun on my daily commute and this is enough for that.
Norm-core needs to gain more popularity. Economy cars can be fun too if you're an enthusiast who cares about the mechanical aspects of the car rather than just the brand and image that it bestows on you.
300wheel is slow dude. It gets very… boring after a while. It’s cool for “faster than a camry who doesn’t know we’re racing” driving. But it’s super boring. Especially if you’ve ridden a motorcycle or driven a faster car
i fucking love my sti because it’s quick (~315hp) but it sounds just so good so i can wind it out without speeding too much. i think 3-400hp is perfect for a lil light car
300 is just getting into the fun range but nothing crazy, you know it's going to grip and go no matter how hard you hit the gas, no skill needed and gets boring quick.
My wife's SUV is 400 stock and every bit of it can be used easily, every day. My 700 hp car does take some care to drive but it is still plenty useable on the street, and you can easily find others in the same power range to play with just driving around.
A "slower" v8 that sounds good is more fun to drive than a turbo 4 banger that has 300 hp and roasts tires. That said, the Golf R is fun and its around 300 hp and very enjoyable, but it sounds like an angry dishwasher.
Just out of curiosity what engine are you using in your goblin? I'm building an sr20det powered Locost myself and haven't met anyone else in person with a kit car.
An older Camaro with 300 hp is still pretty zippy, in fairness. Newer, bulkier ones not so much, sadly. I'd love to see more of GM's 2.0T designs make cool, light sports cars... but unfortunately we never got a Chevrolet Solstice/Sky.
To be fair the 2.0T Camaro makes 275hp and has a 0-60 of 5.5s, that's pretty zippy to most people. I own one and i like to think of it as a fat Miata in the best of ways lol, fun car overall.
Yep, my Elise has 350hp and nothing has kept up with me anywhere yet on my 4 years of ownership. But modern production cars mostly don't do power to weight because nearly every car on a lot is over 3,000lbs.
Well, it isn't a lot, as such. It's just fine for most purposes, though. Doesn't mean I won't like my 350-550 range, too. I'm not drag racing either way so the 0 to 100 is only vaguely relevant anyway, but the feel of something that's not even trying vs something that actually has to try on our highway ramps is definitely different.
It is definitely quick, it's just a matter of using the quickness; the more spirited driving you do and the better you get at it, the more horsies you handle. Quite the drug
The 250 hp and 320 lb/ft in my 3300-pound CX-30 Turbo makes it plenty quick for me. 0-60 in 5.8 is perfectly cromulent and having torque off idle in every gear is a game-changer for daily driving.
I've driven the previous gen Mazda3, and I thought it was a great hot hatch! The way the power comes in off the line makes it feel faster than it is, then it falls off on the freeway from 60-80😂
I agree I am driving the bigger variant with longer 0-60 but way enough HP to feel sporty (relative to a CUV) and I can count in one hand the time I have used the overdrive at the bottom of the pedal.
I feel like I’m gonna hear this a lot when I do get a new car. I really wanna get a Hyundai Elantra N. Powerful enough to have fun but is still gonna be a great Daily Drive car. Right now anything is better than a 182 HP SUV I’m driving lol
My car has 190hp and I feel like it's too fast. Granted its electric & weighs slightly more than a Miata, but on a nice windy road it's already too fast to bury the throttle out of a turn without hitting unsafe speeds.
My son's Polestar Volvo has 321hp, I think. It is plenty fast and handles really well. I agree 300hp is good power. More is always better, but I would be happy with 300hp.
People who say it isn't fast either don't own a car at all (and watch too much 1320video) or have surpassed that barrier and now want to be faster than they are while talking crap about those below them. I grew up my whole life in a racing family and got into an 8 second race car at 15 years old. When I hit 18 I came across and bought an old 93 fbody with a 350 in it. I think they made 275 crank from the factory. I modded it a little and eventually got it to 355 WHP. I had more fun and got more races with that car than my 8 second race car. I think the fastest it ran was a 12.02 but for those cars is pretty decent. And the best thing was I put all my money into the suspension so it would get traction on about any surface. It beat a lot of newer stuff just for that reason. Not everything has to be a 3000hp lambo to have fun. A trip to your local race track will show that a lot of people still have 12, 13, of even 14 second quarter mile cars. People just get too caught up in YouTube and the wow factor of new elite cars to realize there's that.
I had a 2001 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP. It was supercharged and still only made 240hp. It put the power down well though because it was front wheel drive, so it felt fast, plus it had that supercharger WHHIIIINNNEEEE...
As someone who has driven sub 200 hp vehicles for the last decade. Getting my 93 park ave with 220 feels like a rocket ship. And I still drive like a grandpa acceleration wise. I don't get the desire for crazy horsepower out of cars. I can sit my butt on top of a 1L that's good for 160-170mph if speeds what I'm really after.
Weight and fuel are more the issue at 300hp. A 3.5L V6 Honda Accord luxury will pick up speed but it guzzles fuel and weighs a lot. On the other hand my CLA45 2.0L turbo making 400HP uses barely any fuel at all in eco and has more power. It is also decently compact while still fitting my 6'4 ass. Personally believe this to be the best of both worlds.
I had a 200hp engine in a 2500lbs car (kl-ze v6 2.5L into a mazda mx-3), did exactly that, 0-100 kph in 5 sec. Man, for a 5000$ CAD car including complete swap (engine, parts, labor) nothing could beat it even at twice the price. Oh, and fuel ecenomy was great too, mind you. My subaru brz does 0-100 in about 6.3 seconds, I enjoy it even if its not 5 sec lol.
Other than my short throw shifter my Challenger RT is bone stock. 375hp and 410ftlbs pushing 4100ish lbs and it's such a fun daily.
It has enough power to be fun and get into trouble (5.5ish 0-60 I think but who cares tbh) but little enough to actually be usable on the street with a decent set of budget tires. I can have fun and go full throttle whenever I want and not have to worry about traction. It just hooks, goes, and sounds great!
I'd actually argue that power doesn't matter at the track either, unless you're talking drag strip. If you're in a sanctioned competition then yes power can matter but most series are classed anyways.
You're much better off pushing a slower car at the limit to find your own limits, rather than taking your hellcat and sending it straight into a barrier or not pushing it bc you're scared of that happening. If you're new you aren't pushing a 100hp car to it's fastest lap times let alone a 300hp car lol
I dailied my trx for about 2 years at 922awhp. It’s really not “too much”, but the power can’t be used on the street without being grossly negligent or breaking certain traffic laws. Most every car is street able regardless of power unless it has a super aggressive cam. Stock it was around perfect as a daily at 702hp, but it’s also over 6,000lbs. Sweet spot in rwd would around 500 imo.
Yeah ig its just us getting used to factory cars being made into complete rocket ships stock, and therefore if you dont have the same power you are frowned upon. I mean my truck has a 3.7 v6 and i still find myself grinning ear to ear when i send it
As you get older, if you stay in cars, you learn that none of this shit matters now that finance has ruined the enthusiast sector. Quality, commitment to engineering, and money 4th is what made some of the coolest cars ever. Geniuses marketing the GMC HUMMER OMEGA EDITION don't understand that.
I have a 345HP (at the wheels) GTI. There’s not much on the road that it can’t either hang with or outrun. I think most people can’t wrap their head around power to weight ratio. Plus, Dodge will slap a Hellcat in anything and say “this makes 700hp” and in comparison, 300 doesn’t sound like much.
I’m tired of all of these people that claim that many cars are dangerously slow if they can’t break 6 seconds 0-60, especially when many of the people that have these powerful vehicles never seem to use much of the power they have available. One of my pet peeves is merging onto the freeway at less than the rate of traffic. I’ll zip to redline to get up to speed but I don’t know how many times I’ve been stuck behind an AMG or BMW ///M car puttering up the ramp, merging at 45 or 50. I also get a little nuts when someone in an obviously faster vehicle gets all butt-hurt when a little minivan dares to pass them.
I grew up in the ‘70s and ‘80s, and still use performance figures from those days as my benchmark. In ‘84 I bought a Rabbit GTI, a pretty quick and agile car in its day, with a 0-60 time of 9.7 seconds. A Porsche Turbo did 5.0. A larger Buick Turbo could do 7s and that felt quite quick. A Ferrari Mondial was good for 8.2, a whole tenth of a second faster than my current 6MT-equipped minivan. It’s fine. I’m not holding up traffic, I’m not a danger to anyone but the careless and reckless just because I choose to drive only 10% ABOVE the posted speed limit on the highway at times, but often faster (never in the #1 lane, of course). It’s not like the Budget rental van I used to move cross-country several years ago, where I was getting passed by semis in the slow truck lane. Its performance is perfect acceptable, especially combined with good brakes and surprisingly good handling for a vehicle in this class, and is always a good drive. Would I like it to be faster? Sure! Does it need to be faster? No, not really. People always seem to wanted bigger, better, faster, etc. and are not willing to accept something that is perfectly adequate for 99% of driving. If I had all six seats filled and a luggage carrier on the top I might not be saying the same thing, but it’s usually just me and I’m happy with it as it is.
A few years ago on a trip I rented a Mustang V6 convertible. I believe it had 315 HP, much more than the 175 and 225 HP 4.9s (a 302 is not five liters - sorry) that I grew up with. Yes, cars have gotten heavier over the years but 315 was more than enough, and I don’t really want to think about what another 100+ HP would feel like. Same thing goes with bikes. 600cc air-cooled with a half fairing was more than enough for me and I never had the desire for a liter bike (or more). I remember an old coworker talking about how we wanted to buy a GTR and when asked why he just quoted the 0-60 time. Yeah, that’s nice, but how often will up you use that, and how long will the vehicle last after a few brutal launches? I haven’t spoken to him in years so I don’t know if he ever got his GTR, but I’d be willing to bet that he probably got a dual-motor Tesla instead and did maybe half a dozen full-throttle launches before the novelty wore off.
A few years ago I borrowed my dad’s Volt, and found it to be almost the ideal vehicle, albeit a bit on the heavy side. The seamless torque and nearly limitless range was absolutely amazing. He has the luxury of charging off of solar panels at home, but if I had to I could easily live with the 50 MPG I got out of it when driving it for 250 miles in one day, and I drove it like any other vehicle and wasn’t a lane blocking eco-weenie. I love my manual transmissions, but in my opinion the best transmission is no transmission. Put that drivetrain into a minivan and I’d be in heaven.
My Caliber SRT-4 has 285 and it is quick off the line (though the torque steer is absolutely horrible being a FWD) and could reach a decent top speed number if I had enough road.
It’s all power to weight. A light sports car with 300hp is going to be quick but a fully loaded minivan that weighs 6000 lbs is not going to be quick at all. On top of all that the average TikTok car guy is going to tell you that everything is slow unless it’s a fully built Supra while they’re driving around in a Corolla.
My daily driven car is likely faster than my project car by most metrics, gets better fuel economy, shifts gear quicker, etc etc and I absolutely could not care less.
300 hp as a number is meaningless without the contextualization of weight. 300 hp in my 2200 lb MR2? Rocketship. 300 hp in a 5500 lb truck? Snail. As things get heavier, 300 hp is increasingly not enough to be fun. When the average car weight has crept up to like 3600 lbs, 300 really isn't enough to be considered quick any more. Now I will hear the case for 400 always being a lot. I haven't been in a 400 plus vehicle yet that I didn't consider quick. But there are plenty of heavier normal vehicles where 300 hp really doesn't feel like a lot.
It also depends on what car it comes in…my 4Runner is approaching 300hp, and feels like an absolute dog in basically any performance category you could compare it at.
300hp in a smaller car, with less weight being thrown around? Can be downright fun. E46 M3 is basically perfect with just a pinch over 300hp.
Perspective is a big thing though, and I can understand why people might scoff at the number, especially with modern cars, because so many run of the mill vehicles also come with 300hp off the showroom floor. Hell, most minivans are right there now.
I’m at 285 hp (2023 Hyundai Kona N) and I can pull a 0-60 at about 5.4 seconds. She’s quick and nimble with relatively good gas mileage when I keep my foot light. Honestly, where I live outside of Charlotte, NC, I really don’t need any more than that. With the traffic congestion and the reality that public roads aren’t designed like racetracks, I am already limited to relatively few opportunities to go flat out for very long or very far.
Everyday I see any manner of Corvettes, Porsches 911’s, Dodge Scatpacks/Hellcats, modified GR Supras, BMW M’s, etc, and while I’m certainly envious, I feel like I’m able to enjoy my car way more often than they can. They have all of that horsepower and, for the most part, it’s wasted.
People that care about numbers and wanna trash talk people's cars (which they don't even have) are the vocal minority here. If you actually own a car, 300-350 is plenty to be quick, but also easy to cruise.
If you own a car and you enjoy it, that's all that matters. Build what the hell you want. I'd never recommend posting to the internet if you are a person that can't handle the negative bs comments bc they're inevitable. Just be safe and avoid it.
I think 300 in a modern car is plenty for a daily driver.
But then I jump in my 500hp camaro and have a blast.
Though I do miss the rocketship on the highway feeling of my turbo z06
The internet has plagued the idea of power in a car. I absolutely agree. 300 horsepower can be horridly fast in the right car. As can 400 or 200. Anything over 500 is stupid fast for any sports car. The thing people don’t get is that there’s no point of having more power on paper when you’re never going to use it. When is 1000hp actually needed on public roads? And power is a spectrum because one of the thrilling experiences was in a little 500cc 1967 fiat 500 I was driving pushing it to 60mph. Shit was scary going that fast in that small of a car
I'm from the UK, the majority of people I know haven't driven a 300hp+ car. And then when they've been in mine they refer to it as "fast as fuck". In passing comment they'll talk to me about cars they consider fast and say "well, not compared to yours".
Most average people do consider 300hp cars fast, it's only online neckbeards who think everything should be 1000hp or it's slow who don't.
Another european here. Plenty content with my 116hp Seat Arona with a 1.0 liter turbo engine. I have never been in a situation with it where i hoped to have more power. The automatic dsg alone makes it faster than my old skoda fabia with 1.9L diesel manual. But then again my Arona weights probably half of what the average american car does...
This is how I feel with my Q50 vs my Z, same HP, different weights and gearing. If I drive my Q50 long enough I'm longing for more, then I drive my Z and I'm like yeah, 300hp is enough.
It's because most people have never been in anything quicker than a 16 sec car. They don't understand that it's a logarithmic scale of power to go from 16 sec to 14. The fact that anyone can go into a dealership and buy street cars that could beat a race car from the 80's is insane.
Then again i have car with 116hp. (Although it only weights 2500lbs so not the heaviest car there is). It takes 10s to go 0-60, but so far i have always been plenty fast merging on a highway, even if that means flooring it in what the car calls sport mode. It has a dsg automatic and is not a hybrid, so there tends to be a second or so of empty when flooring, as the car suffles a few gears smaller gear in (if we are talikg highway merging and stuff), but it definitely springs to life after that.
What i care more, is that it's super quick and agile in basic city traffic, quick to get to the city speeds from stop and can slip between traffic quickly when turning. The car definitely has a lot more torque on low speeds and then high speeds (passing on highway etc) and the middle ground is a bit more lazy.
As a person who had a 6 sec 0-60 car and a 3.5 sec 0-60 motorcycle, the difference is astonishing. 5 sec 0-60 is mildly fun; 3 sec 0-60 is gut in your stomach exhilarating, until you get used to it of course.
300hp is only one small part of the equation. Car weight, gearing, torque and power curves are just some of the additional factors. 300hp in a Suburban is slow. 300hp in a Miata is a pretty wild ride.
Its crazy cu i was this way 2 years ago, now i just love all cars, got into it with a guy cuz he said a stinger is slow, i said dude that thing is plenty quick, nice, and will last you a good while, while being a rather decent size car
It isnt a lot anymore, but you can definitely still have fun with it. People see these crazy numbers modern engines are capable of and scoff at anything else.
What does 300 hp have to do with 0-60 in 5s? You're aware that the weight of the car is just as much of a factor, yeah? Weight varies a lot. Modern cars are heavy as fuck. 300 hp used to be a lot; in most cases today, it's not much.
As someone with a 300 hp car I honestly feel it's too much to go flat out or use everyday.I am going over the speed limit even on a highway if I go flat out from a stop for 5 seconds flat.
Yeah, I think I agree. I had a Viper with 400+ horsepower and tons of torque. Really it was overkill. I don’t have anything to prove anymore. I now have a Toyota with 295 HP and it’s perfectly fine. Now, on the other hand a had a DeLorean with 130HP and it was just horribly slow. 300 HP is the sweet spot.
Isn't HP really a form of dick comparison that usually ends in your 40's? Then you buy a Wrangler and remember that driving can be fun at any speed. Or maybe that's just me.
I'm not sure what force on the body has to do with a 0-60 time or horsepower numbers. We weren't talking about that at all. The discussion is whether or not a 300hp car is considered fast anymore.
O-60 times, 60ft times, 1/8 mile times and 1/4 mile times.
Considering most sports cars come with over 400hp from factory and most super cars start around the 600-700hp mark... 300 HP is not a fast car anymore.
If you factor in power to weight ratios or a different kind of motor vehicle, sure.. 300 HP can be fast.
I'm not sure what force on the body has to do with a 0-60 time or horsepower numbers
Do you really need an explanation of how more horsepower or quicker acceleration, increases force experienced by the human within that vehicle?
I'm saying that my interpretation of fast is based on the sensory experience it gives to the people in the vehicle, not based on a relative comparison to other vehicles. Humans remain basically unchanged, so what is fast is also unchanging. Just because we invent even faster vehicles, doesn't make the existing vehicles any less exciting, dangerous, etc... the user experience remains the same, which is a feeling of going fast.
You're on stupid sum'bitch, brother. I've driven from SL1 to Fusion to Firebird to some stupid fucking Lambo. You're the exact kind of fucktard I'm dissing with this post.
My favorite engine ever was the M113 in my 2005 E500. 300 HP, 340 torque, naturally aspirated V8. The perfect amount of power, smooth, refined, available when you needed it, could hold its own at a red light, and it sat at like 1,700 rpm while cruising 80 on the highway.
What bothers me is you got no torque down low unless you are in boost (so 2 seconds of nothing and then suddenly way too much) and then you got no power at the top because torque peak is at 3000rpm.
So either youre flooring it or it just feels like an ecobox. Which I guess is what you like about them haha fair enough.
Also they mostly sound kinda shitty and Im a sucker for sound.
unless you are in boost (so 2 seconds of nothing and then suddenly way too much)
I think this is more a driving style difference than a characteristic of it. Assuming you have a relatively small, twin-scroll turbo, you can push into slight boost and ramp-up gradually, that way turbo lag gets mitigated in acceleration, but I understand what you mean. It's jarring if you don't want to work around it and I understand not wanting to work around it.
Also they mostly sound kinda shitty and Im a sucker for sound.
I think this is more down to people that drive them not choosing exhausts very well. Factory exhausts are too quiet and the straight-pipe method makes them sound like fart cannons. A nice, meaty exhaust with a great resonator and a loud, but existent muffler with a better-flowing cat can sound quite nice.
I "only" have 200 and barely know what to do with them. Yes it accelerates nicely out of corners but 2s later I have to be on the brakes again anyways. Although it is markedly more fun than the 130 I had in the car before.
They're thinking of 300 hp in a boat from the 70's or 80's. Not in a modern car with a modern transmission and tires and suspension. I'd bet 95% of drivers have never driven a car with 300 hp.
My dream car when I was a kid was a 2004 Subaru WRX STI 0-60 in 4.6 seconds. It was insanely fast for it's time keeping up with the a lot of super cars, Ferrari's, Lamborghini's, ect.. Pretty crazy cars are sub 3.0 0-60 now days. Anyone that says 5.0 0-60 is not fast, either doesn't know anything or just isn't really a car person.
Only because you said "a lot". No 300hp is not a lot. It's good, adequate, can be fun but not "a lot".
"It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow". 300 is right in the middle of that. It's not fast or slow but can be fun.
Thickness isn't the only thing that makes a good tire...
I wasnt even referencing your car, it was just an in general statment but since you want to go there yea 300 hp in a fwd car with 245 allseason is going to feel sketchy. You are at the limits of that chassis probably.
Also some people have differnece prferences of speed I have a 636cc motorcyle that only feels sorta fast anymore, some people get used to speed easier than others
Went car shopping, initially looked at upgrading my BMW M235 Coupe to a M440 or M3 but just..... Didn't feel any value there. 300ish hp felt, on the street, exactly the same as 500hp except for 2s merging onto the highway. Same bmw interior, same eight speed auto, same feel overall.
Ended up buying a GR Corolla, objectively slower, but way more fun, feels faster with less power, more practical, huge tech upgrade, way cheaper to maintain and insure.
Golf R, wrx and CTR were same story. Did consider a tlx or IS350 for the more comfortable options and even then the only really palpable difference was the natural v6 in the IS.
While I really enjoy cool cars, I think, overall, cars are getting too big, too powerful and too heavy to be safe in most people's hands. I'd love to import an autozam AZ 1 but with new cars routinely being over 4000 if not 5000 lbs I think driving it would be terrifying.
I’ve mentioned this many times to people. Somewhere along the lines people got to be in such a hurry that having nearly 300 HP (293 in a Chrysler Van to be specific) in a minivan has become normal. I was discussing with someone that todays 300HP is yesterdays 200HP and todays 500HP is yesterday’s 300HP. Modern vehicles often reach 60MPH (96kph) in under 7.5 seconds and in 1999 that was still considered quick enough to be called spirited. Todays car magazines don’t think things are quick until your under the 5 second mark. Why are people all in such a hurry. My truck makes 450HP and I’m not sure I’ve ever gotten close to using it all. 🤣🤷🏻♂️
The problem are... everyone, car culture from people that have the money to high performance cars, and mankids that have never driven something higher than their 1 liter engines.
Any sensible person will tell you that a Covertter C5 base of only 350 can be dangerous for people with 0 skills on driving performance cars, and the worst is that as a car feels so tamed you are not paying attention how fast you are going.
I remember in the 90s and 00’s when 300 hp was THE benchmark. Cars that had more than that were either exotics or special edition/top trim variants. Now you can get almost 300 hp in a Camry.
It is already way more than you can safely use on public roads.The first time I went full throttle in my mustang was passing someone on a 2 lane highway and after I finished passing I thought to myself that it had plenty of power and I would never need more. Well,I got used to the power within about 2 weeks BUT I still thought it had all the power I ever needed.That was over 4 years ago now and my opinion hasn't changed a single time as it still has more than enough power for me to use on the road.But power isn't about fun for me,I don't get the point in going 0-60 fast like my brother does in his modified golf r it just doesn't bring a smile to my face unlike his.I drive my cruze the vast majority of that time because although it is an economy car it truly has a superior fun factor to me ,from the suspension to the steering feel,the cruze is better than the mustang.
300 HP on a 950 kg car with a good bit of practical aero, is a fucking ROCKET and I promise is beating most things in a 1 on 1 race around a track.
To me, it's all about power to weight and handling characteristics. (Which don't really come apparent until you drive the car 😅)
Internet and social media have ruined the perception of car building. If you're not making an over budgeted car with, $100,000 in parts, making 800+HP, or driving one of the mainstream JDM/EDM 90s/2000s cars, your shit is slow and boring. 😒
300hp really isn’t a lot compared to the weight of most modern cars. 300hp in a Miata is probably fun, but 300hp in a 2.5 ton SUV is completely different.
But people by stuff because they like it. It’s kind of like asking why people spend money on fine dining when you could make a sandwich at home.
People need to drive cars from the 80s and 90s when a family car got a 91 hp I-4, or a pickups had 110 hp V6s. 300 hp is more than enough, and in 90% of situations you can't even use the extra power.
I'll take less horsepower and torque in exchange for better fuel economy.
300 horsepower is definitely enough. You can't use more than that on the street in most cars under 4,000 lbs. Unless you want to go to jail or kill somebody. People should supercharge their suspensions and tires. It's not how fast your car is that matters, it's how fast can you safely drive it.
All through the '80s all we wanted was a 350 that got 350 horse and maybe 375 torque.
Now they have that in front wheel drive cars that are considered vehicles for new drivers. It's fucking insane.
It's no wonder American drivers have to have so many protections right up to and including airbags with higher pressure because so many Americans can't fucking drive and never bothered learning properly.
Me with my 88hp and 114hp cars: ^~^
Speed is one thing dude. What matters is how the car makes you FEEL. Do you feel happy when you drive it? Does it excite you when you take it out of the garage? Thats what matters to me. And my two little okdtimers definitely accomplish that
Yeah. An actual racecar driver took me around the table in my S2k, and holy shit, it felt incredible. Like, genuinely would-pay-for-this exhilarating, and it was just the car I commute in. My driving skill is the limiting factor at the track, not the engine.
Cable throttle and practically no rev hang helps a lot imo +manual. My 110hp shitbox with drive by wire is a drag sometimes because it feels so delayed. Meanwhile an older model with similar power but with cable throttle feels much more faster and responsive
I was just talking to my wife about this last night. When I was 16, which was like 2008, I had a 1995 mustang gt. It was a 5.0 liter V8, that was 215 horsepower stock. I had some bolt-ons which probably got it right around 250 or 260. That car felt fasted me back then. Now in hindsight, that was probably about a six second 0 to 60. Now I have a 2018 V6 camaro.
Regardless of what everyone might think of a v6, it was $335 horsepower stock. I'm talking a 5-second flat zero to 60 mph. Which is pretty remarkable considering back in the day, V6 American cars weren't considered performance at all. Fast forward 6 months, it's right around 440 horsepower, very low boost. I've got less than $4,000 into the performance of this car. I say all this because, I would still say that 215 horsepower mustang GT I had was too much car for most people.
I’ll never forget my first time experiencing 1000+hp. It’s unworldly fast. My initial thought (after catching my breath) was thinking that cars should not be allowed to be this quick.
I get your point, but cars weigh like, 1,000 lbs + more than they did 15-20 years ago. 300 hp isn't what it used to be. My cadillac cts with the extra large 3.6 in it (325 hp) from the crossovers is like, 6 seconds 0-60 since the thing weighs 3200 lbs with me in it.
Eh? I only ever spin my tires if I do a full on launch control clutch dump. I've never managed to break traction just by hitting the throttle with my 365 whp.
It is a lot. I just “stepped up” in HP by going from a 2019 Volvo S60 T5 into a 2024 G70 3.3T Sport Prestige. You can definitely feel the jump from 250 HP to 365ish HP, especially with the sportier suspension and general dynamics of the car. In the mid range of acceleration, the up shifts in Sport+ mode give you a little jolt. If this is how a little over 4 seconds to 60 mph feels, I can’t begin to imagine how violent any car having double this power would be.
I used to feel the same way…then I drove faster stuff. Yeah, you can mess up bigtime with 300hp. And 200hp even. But you can do it so much more fantastically with more power!
Overtaking with 500+hp is a completely different feel, without being horrendously reckless for example.
My car is plenty fast enough, the dyno said 308 hp on the wheels. I have also done some to the handling so it is now an amazing handling little hatchback as well as being pretty quick.
And every time I drive it do I think to myself "who would ever need this much power?"
I always remember the 350z I got as an 18 year old kid and how ridiculously fast that thing felt and it was just shy of 300hp. I’ve never really driven anything with more power than that so I can’t imagine people saying they need 500hp or more.
I'll never understand normie car-buying habits. People that don't give a shit about how they look or dress or give two fucks more than going A to B in a car, and they'll still piss and scream and spend 10k+ more than they have to for something that isn't a minivan.
People have lost the frame of reference to what makes a fast car. With dozens and dozens of super cars and hyper cars, people forget that just 30 years ago it was a feat of engineering to hit 200+ mph. Now a GT500 Mustang can do it. 300hp has become "affordable" so it's now "slow" as well.
I wasn't trying to imply you said enough, I put it in quotes because to me, it's an unknown quantity in that it depends on ones preference.
I get what you're saying, my counterpoint is that while historically a 5 second is decently quick, there's also an element of prior experience. I've had many cars over the years that are 3-4 second 0-60, and as a result a 5 second 0-60 doesn't feel quick to me at all.
Hey, the fastest person I ever saw on the local quarry road was an old Asian lady in an Acura SUV pushing probably 110 on a tiny, cracked road I was managing 80 on.
Back in the day I had a 5.0 with 300 at the wheels and that thing was a fucking monster. I smashed on everybody that said they had 450.
I used to get dusted by Z06s and sport bikes, but it wasn’t like it is today with all these fucking four-cylinder sedans that make 400 horse and get 50 miles to the gallon
One reason I suspect people think 300 isn’t much is the weight of modern cars. The Acura/Honda NSX Zanardi edition for example, has a faster 0-60 than the Nissan Maxima, despite having a bit less horsepower, much less torque, tested on 90s/00s tires (for the results I found), and a manual transmission instead of a CVT. Part of that is due to the mid engine rwd configuration, but i suspect more of that of that is due to the NSX being about 600 pounds lighter than the maxima.
When you’re thinking 90s and 2000s cars, 300 is a lot of horsepower. Today however, full sized sedans and SUVs are a lot heavier than they used to be, and that 300 doesn’t go as far as it would in a 90s civic or an NSX.
Imo 300hp could most definitely feel like a lot in the right car. The weight and the distribution of weight has a lot to do with how a car feels, so a light 300hp car could be considered fast to a fucking heavy ass 300hp car. It’s all relative to what your perception of fast is and most people who think 300hp isn’t a lot would be terrified to ride in a 1500lb car with 300hp.
One of the joys in owning a motorcycle I had a Monster 1200 with a torquey 1200cc v twin that thing in theory could do 0-60 in 3 seconds and would still pull past 100mph
Internet really ruined the perception of hp, and overall car performance. Most of the people who say that 300hp is slow dont even have a car themselves
Yea, I think ppl forget that power to weight ratio is what matters more than just HP. I like small low power cars such as Miata’s because you can drive close to“the limit” at slower speeds which is still fun and safer than driving a 500hp car at the limit.
I’ve always enjoyed the range of about 220-300 hp in any medium sized car. It’s enough power to really enjoy at street legal speeds, and also it’s available in a ton of cars as completely stock. It’s also easily attainable for cars that need some modification to get there.
Chasing horsepower feels like a fool’s errand. My B8.5 Audi S4 allegedly makes around 330 hp and 330 lb-ft on a dyno, totally stock. The forums and Facebook groups for this car are chock full of posts about getting past 400, 500, and even 600 hp. And then things are always breaking, but every owner insists “I baby the car and change the oil early, these mods have nothing to do with the engine failure.”
This is my personal preference, of course. But 260 hp in a 3200 lb car is a nice sweet spot.
A lot also depends on N/A vs forced induction. I know a lot of 2.0 diesels that will embarrass N/A 300hp off the line, and give the illusion of a lot of power to people.
A 90hp Mazda MX5 Mk1, which puts down some blistering times. People tend to underestimate the effects of weight and how much power they actually use in their car.
It was a lot in the 80s and 90s. people get used to anything, and 300 HP just doesn't impress very many people anymore. My VW Arteon came stock with 300 hp and it did not impress me. I did do an aftermarket tune on it and bumped it up to 400 hp. NOW it moves pretty good..
I find my 170hp Mercedes real fun and zippy. First off the red light, easy overtakes on the highway, comfortable to drive. I don't need my car to try and kill me if my foot slips of the brakes. Also, I like my tires to survive at least a season. So yeah, I don't get the obsession either. I think people in general can't match the power numbers to real world performance and make assumptions.
My tuned 2022 WRX is perfect for me it will pop off a high 4 second 0-60 with ease but it’s still only 350hp car so it’s perfect for the street and honestly it’s fast enough to get anyone in to a lot of trouble no problem.
My 1984 Mustang 5.0 GT had like 180 HP and did 6.4. I could beat most any stock car off the line. It was fast and dangerous… for the time. Now, it’s not fit to get groceries.
It’s all relative.
Today, people are like anything over “5.0 0-60 is a mom car”
Car edgelords (let’s be real) now talk about sub 4 as being the threshold for being a car guy.
Now. What? We saw a 1.9 get announced with the 2025 Taycan?
Guess what, before long the new threshold for “serious car guys” will be straight up wormhole time travel.
I had a Camaro ZL1 1LE. 650 HP / torque. I could run down anything out with me on track days. But turn off the driver assists and I could barely keep it on the road. The assists cut power, so gotta wonder what the point is. I’m glad I was able to experience a “super car” in my time on this planet, but I gave it up for a JCW mini and have no regrets.
Hah, agree. I've had cars in the 400-500HP over the years, but the car that's the most fun to drive is my Mini Cooper S. And as silly as it is, the "sports" button is a ton of fun.
It’s more than HP. My 330hp G37xS is “fast” at its maximum potential, but at 3,800-something pounds, and only 270-lb/ft torque it is not much more than average in low-speed acceleration compared to modern FI engines.
I’ve driven some much faster cars like a C6 Z06, W205 C63s, 2nd Gen CTS-V, E92 M3, and some other modified cars.
Driving my car home after some of those made it feel slow forever, those cars were fast whenever and wherever. My car if you really want to go any it’s mandatory to drop a gear or two
7.0 LS7 in the Z06, the supercharged LSA for the CTS-V, and the Merc M177 4.0TT hot-vee V8 were all such incredible engines where that “on-demand” power made the experience amazing.
I believe that 300bhp is the sweet spot for the UK roads in a modern car but I’ve had numerous cars in the past with more power, 500bhp RWD and 700bhp AWD and it’s nice to have the power but totally isn’t necessary but I always find myself wanting more.
it doesnt FEEL fast. Speed is relative. if you have ever owner a Tesla / c8 corvette / audi awd .. 300hp with what cars weigh doesnt FEEL fast. 0-60 in 5 is still fast, but the feeling is vastly different.
The issue I take with 0-60 arguments is that in the real world street driving nobody is launching their cars on the regular with the additional wear and tear on the drive train.
This is doubly true with manuals, nobody is hammering their clutch to hit that time every pull.
Journalists don’t own the cars and can praise the 0-60 while beating the absolute shit out the press cars. But when it’s your own baby very few people are going to drive like that to hit under 5 seconds on the regular (EVs excluded)
I literally launch my Trackhawk on the 2 step several times a day when I drive it.
Same with my 392.
When I had a viper and hellcat I was doing tires every 3-5k miles. I absolutely use all the power every day. I have lots of roads and opportunities to open my stuff up safely so I do…..
It's not that 300 isn't a lot, but HP-power per weight is not a lot. A 2.5k lb car will feel much different than a 3.5k lb car with 300 LB. Back in the day 300 hp was great due to the simplicity and lightness. Now you need to be at 350-375 to feel the same thing as cars got more bulky and heavy.
when i hear people say 300 hp isn't a lot, i just laugh. the fact that there are camrys out there with 300 hp, 200 of which will never get used, just proves that point further.
I donno. I went from a car that does 0-60 in about 5.2 and ran a 13.8@102 quarter mile to one that does 60 in about 4.2 and ran a quarter mile of 12.5@117. The faster car is way more fun.
It also matters what the car is. Balance is key. A Rav4 Prime is in that 5s 0-60 range, but it's not a very enjoyable acceleration experience because the chassis can't really handle the power. It doesn't turn or stop very well.
It works the other way too. Something like a V6 Camaro is less fun because the chassis is much better than the engine. So you can just wail on it and the car is planted. It lacks that balance between power and chassis capability, which the SS solves.
I know it's unpopular to say, but I think driving a fast car below its capability is more fun than driving a slow car as hard as possible. If you have a Camaro SS and decide to use 3rd instead of 2nd while going down some back roads, you'll have the same experience, but you'll never be able to get that brutal acceleration when you want it from the V6.
It turns out, you're skills can grow to fill the car you have. And the more capable the car, the most capable of a driver you can become with it. Also, managing gear changes on a track is a bit of a challenge when you first start out, so having more engine can help with learning a new track, since you can leave it in a higher gear and not worry about the car being a dog out of the corners.
I'd say my 75hp Volkswagen is pretty zippy. It's not fast. But pretty quick for what it is. It's the more powerful 1.6 after all. The 1.4 60hp is the standard engine.
300hp sounds almost scary. I think of 1960s muscle cars when I hear 300hp. Those things are beasts.
Anywhere from 125hp to 200hp will always be a fast car in my book. Depends on the weight a bit of course.
1982 VW Passat Diesel 1.6 with 54hp. Now that's a slow car.
It's all relative to size. I drove a Ford Expedition EL with 310 HP and it felt pretty slow. 300 HP in a sports car is a different story, though. That's quick. My Mazdaspeed has ~210hp at the wheels which is plenty fast and I've never felt the need for more
I wanna blame car journalists for this one. I've seen so many reviews of shit where they give you the 0-60 of something that is irrelevant. My mom doesn't give a shit if her Honda Odyssey can do 0-60 in 7 seconds or how it handles around your stupid cones.
I think car tests should be based on the reason for that car's existence. Not some arbitrary bullshit.
300 HP is my minimum, and to be honest, some of those turbo 4s in the 250 range get the job done quite nicely for me.
I just don't want to be in a 4 cylinder car (again) that just feels like it's gasping for air and struggling to push the car along, I need that strength.
My daily is 350hp out of a 6 liter V8, but it’s a 2-ton sedan. Very torquey, the thing feels fast as hell off the line. I can’t imagine driving something much faster on the street.
I’ve had it for 4 years, it’s at 80k now, no DOD issues. I tuned it out with HPT pretty early. I do plan on deleting it entirely next year. Stock style cam, gonna save my money for a manual swap.
I've got a boosted 700hp C7 vette - it's streetable, but you're not using more than half of the throttle otherwise you're at 90 before you know it wiggling all the way to 90.
I think the context on this matters more than the statement itself. For some vehicles, 300hp isn’t a lot. For others, it’s a ton. For a little coupe that weighs 2000-2500 lbs, 300hp would make that car quite fast. For a base model “muscle” car, (think challenger or Camaro), 300hp is about the starting point. For a full size, third row SUV that weighs 5500-6000lbs, 300hp isn’t much. For a modern, high performance sports car, 300hp is practically nothing.
It's all about what you're used to and what you've experienced. My first car was a 268 hp V6. Traded in for a 15 Mustang GT with a 435hp V8. That felt fast...for a little while. Then I got used to it. I won't say it felt slow* but it certainly stopped feeling fast. Traded that in for my Z06 which is considerably faster. It still feels fast anytime I do a 1st and 2nd gear pull, but after 5 years, it doesn't feel as fast anymore either.
300hp or 5s 0-60 is objectively pretty quick I guess, especially considering the whole spectrum of slow to fast cars. But, I daily a car with more than 2x the hp and 2s faster 0-60. 300hp wouldn't feel fast to me anymore.
300 is decent power to have fun but for me personally it’s not enough. I actually (conveniently) went from a 300hp whp car to 400 to 500 right now, and I’d say 500 is the absolute sweet spot. I actually had it even higher (around 575) but I ended up detuning it (something I NEVER thought I’d do as I was on a relentless, never ending pursuit of power) because close to 600 was absolutely demonic and unnecessary. 500 on the other hand really puts you in your seat, and that kind of torque is something I yearn for when driving. 300 is quick, sure, and for backroads driving it’s more than enough, but I can’t live without some straight line speed. Just my $ .02!
I agree that 300 hp is a lot.... for your typical say 3500 -4000lb cuv/sedan these days thats about 0-60 in 5.5-6 seconds.
I've had several cars in the 250-300 range and its absolutely fine. That said, 250-300 hp in say a NA v6 with an old transmission and say having to wind it up to 7000 rpm to get that (in say an older toyota / honda etc) vs todays 250-300 hp 2.0turbo with massive torque and a modern transmission is a huge difference.
I have a 300 hp v8 northstar cadillac eldorado with an anemic 4 speed and front wheel drive, 300 hp isn't a good metric on its own. Something like a 300 hp v6 pentastar charger with the zf 8 speed would be a totally different car, let alone the optional v8.
I agree that today 300hp is a magic middle number. More and you get into dedicated sports car territory, less and you get into standard commuter car territory.
I mean, sure the classic 60s muscle cars like the camaro and mustangs did 0-60 in 5.3 seconds...the 69 corvette with the 427 big block with 380hp and the dodge charger with the 426 hemi with 425hp did it in 4.7 second range. The gto and the cobras were in the 4.5 range.... they were the high hp FAST sports cars of their day... and so it shouldn't be a surprise that 60 years later performence oriented cars like a mustang gt can do it in 4 seconds flat, and the Shelby gt500 version can do it in 3.3 seconds.... so to your point 👉 lots of "fast" versions of commuter cars NOW hit 300hp and 5 seconds. Wrx sti, civic type r, mini cooper jcw, trd camry.... and lots of "slow" versions of sports cars hit that same line too.... Mustang ecoboost 4 cyl, camaro 4 cyl, most entry level bmws, etc etc.
5 seconds is absolutely quick enough for most and blistering fast for prius drivers used to 10 second runs... but not the group that wants dedicated sports cars. That group even 60 years ago was in the 4 second range from the factory.
Im happy with my 6 sec 0-60 2017 V6 charger, to me thats quick having come from a 2003 Toyota avalon. Some of my friends whose driven lower powered cars says mine is fast, i supposed its all from perspective.
I drive a 300bhp sleeper estate (wagon) in the UK. It's not really worth it. Accelerating is nice but you can't really do more than a quick whoosh to get you up to speed because a couple of seconds at full throttle takes you from a gentle cruise to losing your licence speed.
My next car will be something small that handles really well at lower speeds.
Dude I’m still chillin with maybe 200 wheel if I’m lucky and a 7s+ 0-60 and I think it’s plenty fast. People can keep coping, but you really, REALLY don’t need power or speed to have fun. It’s the reason Miata’s are so damn popular and the same for stock E36 and E46s.
I used to have a 300hp BMW 335i. Now I have a 164hp Fiat 124 Spider. Both RWD, both 6spd manual. The latter is by far more fun. I regularly get to hoon it at much more legal speeds.
If you want to have fun, don't drive a fast car, drive a slow car fast!
I actually disagree a bit. I think having the longevity of an engine made to make a lot of power being used for typical operation combined with the occasional hell-raising ends up making for a cool middle ground where you need not drive slow or fast, just being able to actively have a say at a moment's notice whether you like speed or want to sail smooth.
The same kind of people that post here and like to magazine race? Cry when an specific sports car didn't sell but don't buy new cars when they are available? (Don't beat me up, this is all in jest)
The thing with power is that you get used to it and always want more. Do you need it? No. It’s a want.
I started with 200HP car then got 2006 mustang GT with 300 hp. It was stupid fast for me and like you I questioned why do you even need more hp.
Then I got 2019 GT with 460 HP and that was stupid fast up until recently it’s getting “boring” and now I’m looking at superchargers….
Recently drove a G37 with 332 HP and it felt “slow” even though there was a time I found 300 HP to be fast.
300 hp is plenty fast and has respectable 0 to 60. People saying 300 HP is slow have probably moved up to high hp cars where 300 is nothing to be excited about.
I’d still rock a 300 hp car and to say it’s slow is not fair. It may feel slow compared to a high hp car but 300 hp is still a respectable number.
I blame cartuber culture. Every reviewer reviews almost every car as if they are in the same category. "This Honda Odyssey will only edge out a 0-60 of 8 seconds. The suspension could be stiffer when rounding the track since there's a lot of lean."
Well 300hp isn’t a lot in the world of 4000lb cars. However 10lb/hp can feel pretty zippy. More than 8:1 starts getting into’hard to use on the street’
I have two cars with a little bit over 300hp (and a motorcycle with 105.)
The power application between the two is just so different.
It really depends on what the 300hp is attached to. But for a sedan, of moderate size it’s a great threshold of power and 5 seconds to 60 is above average and also a good threshold.
One of the most fun test drives I did was a Fiesta ST. Smashed it through the gears at redline and never broke the speed limit. My wife vetoed me daily driving a fiesta unfortunately. Ended up with my third GTI - which was also a fantastic car but more refined/less of a hooligan.
My 2008 Toyota Sienna has the 2GR-FE with ~270 horsepower. It's the first car I've had where I thought to myself "this is enough power". I also have a 2015 Toyota Highlander that has the same engine. Like the Sienna, it has plenty of power.
Now a days it really isn't a lot. It's good, but quite a few 4 cylinders make over 300 making it fairly common place. To add to it cars in general are about a thousand pounds heavier than they were 20 years ago. This means 300 hp today feels about the same as 200 did in the 90s.
Reminds me of a story my dad told me. A guy in his high school had an MGB... said guy was six-foot-three and had an afro upon the head of he. Somehow he had even more of a clown car than me :)
I turned a tire in gravel one day and texted my brother that I did a “burnout” He asked if I was on a banana peel and when I said I was in gravel, he repeated his previous text. Good times.
I've been leaving comments all over Reddit, Instagram and YouTube lately about how the car meets guys show so much animosity and hostility towards me on a personal level because I track drive a Scion FR-S with less than 200hp and I compete in two time attack series local to me.
Everyone just cares about highway pulls, 0-60, drag racing, horsepower, etc and show zero appreciation for any serious/real track car builds. It's fine if these car guys do their own thing and mind their own business in their own little niche community. But when you're trying to put yourself out there at car meets, trying to make new friends as an adult, it's disheartening when they surround you or your car and start talking smack about your ride, you as a car owner, and you as a car driver. It gets worse when you fire back with "well, what's your lap time then?" and you just get 1mil excuses. If you wanted to measure ALL of a car's performance capabilities, then it's at a race track, at a circuit - not on a drag strip. Furthermore, if you wanted to prove a car owners skill level at driving, it's not drag racing. How can you say you're better than me at driving if you don't even know manual and you can't even throw down a competitive lap time? Clearly, horsepower is the only thing that matters in reality for these car guys.
I feel like I'm standing in a toxic Call of Duty lobby but IRL in real life.
I don't know about you guys, but I don't treat cars like some sort of fashion items where you ~~decorate~~ build them up for car shows and car meets, and then flex on each other claiming superiority and who's better than who (both the car and the driver). Driving a sportscar to me is a sport, like skateboarding or running a marathon/golfing/whatever. Talk to me about your lap times, podium standings and accolades. I can care less about the equipment and more about the sporting activity itself: Track Driving.
I wanted to become a car guy so I can have a 'gentlemen's sport' alternative to golfing, because 90% of my time is spent surround by downtown city guys in a corporate work environment. But, I needed the hobby to also doubles as my creative outlet where I can customize something (both artistically and competitively).
Some days, I just want to quit. The car scene is just becoming worse and worse.
I think a lot of people just don’t value power to weight. While 300 hp is great, 300 hp in a car that weighs as much as a planet isn’t anything to brag about.
I had an old 318i that I put a stick turbo 2 motor into. Took all the extra shit out of the car (weight), put a longer rear gear in it 3.23 (I think can’t remember, it was out of a 5 series) I believe instead of whatever the “desired” 3 series m diff was. Had it tuned to a reliable and safe 250-270 hp (don’t remember exact number, but it was not over stressed).
That fucking car ate modern day 335’s, mustangs, Z’s, wrx’s and whatever else was normally in the 300+ category for the time. Just because it was light.
Loves that dumb thing, sold it to a kid and he proceeded to take it to another dyno in a different city and the guy blew the car up
My car is rated 205 at the crank, so somewhere around 170 to the (front) wheels. It's more than enough for daily driving, and, yes, I've driven faster cars.
It's not the fastest 0-60, but that is apparently all that matters, these days. Especially to people claiming they are "car guys/people". I roll my eyes whenever I see a post in r/whatcarshouldibuy start with "I'm a car guy/person and...".
300hp is also a really fun amount for a daily driver. My wrx is around 300 whp and I can floor it all the way through 2nd gear without really risking a crazy ticket but at the same time it's still very fun.. I was comparing it to a manual supra and besides being half the price, the everyday application of a car with a usable power level is majorly overlooked. I think a 3400lbs car could be up to about 320 before you start to lose that daily and legal fun situation
I get as an enthusiast wanting more for a performance car, but what really irks me are the people acting like the average person needs a 4 second 0-60 or it's unsafe to merge. 300hp is fine for anything. My explorer has 300hp and does 0-60 in like 6 seconds, it's fine. My Lincoln has maybe 230hp if I'm lucky and does it in like 8 seconds, it's fine
The only car I've ever felt like I could have trouble merging with was a Saturn SL1, which pushed MAYBE 100 hp on a good day and had like a 9-10 second 0-60. I'd argue 7 or less is perfectly fine for everyday driving.
It does depend on whether you're talking NA or Turbo 300HP. NA 300HP is going to feel a lot faster off the line because of all that torque, and probably decent displacement. Turbo 300HP, even with advanced twin-scroll turbos that spool really quickly is still going to come alive after you're going 10-20mph.
Also, FWD, RWD, AWD. All of those feel pretty different with 300HP.
The fact remains that nearly all new cars above their base model engine have pretty insane amounts of power if you compare back to the '80-00's. I mean hell, I rented a Chrysler Pacifica with the pentastar and just getting on it a little bit was like, holy shit, this is a pretty fast brick.
Anyone who says 300hp isn't a lot hasn't driven the new corolla gr hatchback. That absolutely does not feel like 300hp, it feels like waaaay more, it's so fun to drive. It's the best example in my opinion of a car set up perfectly at 300hp.
Our perception of what's fast and what a lot of horsepower is has been warped beyond recognition in recent years. Everything has a gazillion horsepower and does 0-60 in the blink of an eye, and it's not just hyper/supercars that are like. And that's all new cars do these days. Car manufacturers don't seem to be able to make them any more interesting so all they do is just make them go faster. As far as I'm concerned I'd consider plenty of older cars to be fast, and usually far more interesting. You can barely enjoy or test the limits of even lower end performance vehicles on public roads these days because they're all so damn fast now. I'd much rather have something with less horsepower that won't send me to prison on public roads personally.
I dig both ends of the spectrum for different reasons. My 600hp cts v was nasty fun but kind of a 5 seconds of throttle in any gear got you to arrest me speeds. My MK1 GTI is the total other end of the spectrum where you can hoon it around anywhere having a ball without getting into too much trouble. My M3P daily is an interesting blend of darn quick and comfy daily. In my old age, “Fast” is really relative.
I’m happy with my 2000 Toyota Celica GT-S HP already. I know it’s not the fastest, but I love the looks, the feeling of the lift, turning on corners, and the interior. Maybe for me, it’s probably like the saying
“It’s more fun driving a slow car fast than a fast car driving slow.”
Even on the track, 300 hp is plenty in a light car with good dynamics. I’ve passed countless V8 mustangs, Camaros, corvettes, 911’s, caymans, etc. in my stock power 200k mile FR-S.
It's kind of like an addiction though. Once you have 300hp you get used to it. then you want more. and it just keeps escalating. Eventually, you reach a point where it's scary enough that you are satiated. or you run out of money.
The same goes for traction. As the power increased I wanted more traction. so I got a better tire. and suspensions setup. Then the vehicle feels slow again because you have more traction. so then the vicious cycle of adding more power begins again.
I can't speak for people that go out and buy fast stuff. I buy junk and modify it. But I think it's a similar cycle for most people. Then there are also a lot of people out there who want to have a nominal HP or performance value to talk about, so people know how awesome they are or whatever.
I'm bemoaning the use of relativistic thinking in this case. In absolute terms, the ability to just get up to freeway speeds in a time frame most would consider next to nothing is just awesome.
This goes beyond car culture, it is fundamentally the fragile man ego that feels the need to min max everything.
Computers, cars, whatever. Dudes just need to assess every little detail in order to verify if its optimal or not. It's pretty much dumb male energy in a nutshell
My car makes 596hop to the wheels. It’s all wheel drive. It’s 0-60 is like 3.4 seconds. I can’t make the tires squeal or do a burnout. Passing on the highway is much easier and more enjoyable. I dunno, 300hp isn’t a lot, but if you’re just using it as a daily and drive like a grandma then sure it’s plenty.
I’m oldish (born early 80s). As a kid, anything north of 300hp was absolutely monstrous.
So I agree. Anything north of 300 is MORE than powerful enough to handle day to day use. My current ride is a V6, 310hp and ample enough power for anything I need.
I just shake my head when people think that 300hp isn’t enough for everyday use.
My car has 255 hp and 295 lb-ft of torque and it’s plenty to make the car feel quick. 0-60 in 5.5 sec and the car only weighs like 3300lbs so it’s fairly nimble. And I still get 31MPG bc it’s an I-4.
Of course cars with 400+ hp are faster but only by like a second and drink gas which is pricey AF out here in California
in the end its a sobering lesson to be happy with what you have. i find anything 350+ horsepower is "illegal too fast" territory no matter what, so i focus on getting dynamics/liveability instead
The Testarossa and first gen Viper both went 0-60 in about 5 seconds (give or take) and nobody that doesn’t drive F1 professionally considers those cars slow.
A 5 year old Camaro V-6 is just slightly slower to 60.
Everything is relative. 300hp is pretty normal now days. If you’re happy with it though then great. My daily is a Chrysler 300. Which has plenty of power. Jump from that to my wife’s 2024 bolt on Z and it’s slow and the Z has plenty of power. Jump from that to my dads supercharged Camaro and the Z is slow. From that to my built gtr and the Camaro is insanely slow.
Your focus on 0-60 speaks volumes. It is, quite possibly the most useless specification for a car as it says nothing about its cornering ability, its handling, its overtaking performance or anything other than a simple spec that almost nobody ever needs.
The simple thrill of a powerful engine producing blistering overtaking performance is to be envied until appreciated, not scoffed. The same applies to a chassis capable of effectively moving at speed through many changing corners without causing any concern for a driver driving at 9/10ths.
There is nothing boy racer about a sports sedan with 400+ hp.. its simply luxury in motion, with the motion being fast, quiet and agile.
as a Saturn owner I hope you can appreciate there are 500 cars better than what you own.. dont knock it.. aspire to it
Anyone who hasn’t been in the twisties thinks this way. Around 5-5.5 seconds in a lightweight car is perfect imo and you really feel it with a manual. No way a freaking cybertruck in the tail of the dragon is gonna feel the same
I've been in a 300hp exact Mk2 Focus RS pushing 135mph down a dual carriageway in the pissing rain on the way to a meet. It was both terrifying and incredibly stable.
When I see american/canadian youtubers testing a car that is 300\~350hp and saying "it isnt really fast, just enough to not be dangerous", I cant help but cringe a little, 80hp is pretty capable of keeping 70mph, 120hp, even more so, at a much lower RPM
Are you guys driving at 100\~120 on highways, for 300hp be slow? Because here, 100\~120 is straight to jail, car impounded and licence revoked, no questions asked
Yeah as a degenerate European it's kind of hilarious to always see folks lament 200hp not being enough to merge safely. I've owned 1 litre bangers most of my life and never had an issue. You're just not ragging it hard enough.
Yea. Even the Top Gear guys get more giddy at 150hp mini hot hatches than 700hp super sedans but our North American friends think even a Lexus IS350 is dangerous for highway mergers.
Part of the problem is that america has ridiculously short on ramps in a lot of areas, and god forbid you'd lower the speed limits in those sections.
While in Europe we have usually decent long on ramps, and where it's impossible to build the highways usually have a lower speed limit.
Only car I haven't been able to hit proper speeds in was an opel agila with a 1.0 liter engine with 60-ish horsepower. Even by starting to accelerate in a roundabout ahead of time and constantly pushing to the rev limiter it just couldn't do it. With 4 people in the car it managed to hit 100 before I needed to merge unto a 110 road.
I drove through CT a few months ago and some of the “on-ramps” are literally just stop signs 10-20ft away from a full lane of 60+ mph traffic. It’s the dumbest shit I’ve ever seen lol
I managed just fine in my 88hp '95 Escort for years. I regularly took it over 80mph on the highway with no issues. I absolutely could not pass on a two-lane road though.
Ironically, it was the lack of braking performance in that car that made it feel unsafe. I have no desire to own a car without ABS ever again...
My daddy always taught me that it's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow :)
I have a little Kia Forte GT and even though it's not a race car, it feels fast zipping around and I love it way more than my old Mustang GT that was definitely faster lol.
My daily has 250whp and weighs about 3k lbs. It's quick enough for road use. If I push it 100% on a road, it begins to feel like too much. So I get to use the power I have.
Any more than that I think I'm just waisting power to weight on a road car.
Remember, there was a time when 100hp was considered outrageous. Speed is always relative, and when a cheap 30k used suv can hit 500hp, 300hp is very slow. A 3.5s 0-60 is the baseline for a fast car today, simply bc a taxicab SUV can hit that.
Such things are, of course, relative. 300 HP isn't a lot for a BEV SUV that weight 5,000 pounds like the Equinox. It'd be a heck of a lot for a BRZ/86 that weighs under 3,000 pounds.
It isn't a lot when we just reached the end of an era where Camaros went up to 650 HP and Chargers/Challengers went to 700 HP, but that doesn't mean it's not adequate for the average driver. OF course, there's also the matters of how you get that power--is it an EV with instant torque, an engine that has more torque than HP, or something sluggish with awful turbo lag and overall poor acceleration?
It's hard to think of a case where 300 HP in a modern consumer vehicle isn't sufficient, but with so many options north of 400 HP these days, it's easy to see where an enthusiast sees 300 HP as insufficient for what he wants. For me, someone who's been driving a sub-200 HP car for the past 8+ years, 300 HP would be a significant upgrade. At the same time, the number of desirable vehicles at 300 HP is pretty low, and the death of the 300 HP Camry means there are probably more 400+ HP cars to write home about than 300 HP ones.
It’s all relative. I’ve driven newer BMWs that make 60 in 4 seconds. I’ve driven 00s Subarus that make 60 in the same time. It feels fast in one car, and numb in the other one. Lol
People who chase times are just a different kind of car guy. They’re certainly more tech based. Say what you will about the 19y/o broccoli headed tiktok boi and his (dad’s) 1000 hp bmw…… homies into cars just like you and I. And while hustle culture pearloid wrapped teslas have a toxic following, so do the grassroots racers, JDM purists, standing mile, land speed, offroad, and all those other crowds. Lol
My 7500 lbs truck with 305hp and a 6 speed is slow. But with 555 ft lbs of torque and a loud turbo it feels powerful and its still kinda fun to drive.
My old e34 5 series has 286 hp and a 6 speed with no rev hang bullshit, and it feels pretty fast to me. It has more than enough power to be fun, and the small displacement v8 sounds great when you floor it. It's not fast by modern standards, but it's still a tonne of fun to drive around in. If all you've ever driven is base model civics or small SUV's it feels like an absolute rocket ship.
I've been in a 1300 hp car before and while it's insanely fast and a tonne of fun, you're going impound speeds within a second of pressing the loud pedal.
I think a \~5 second 0-60 is perfectly adequate. Quicker than most other cars on the road, and it's not 'blink and you'll miss it' fast. I will never understand the obsession with street cars where you can break the law and put yourself and others in serious danger within a few seconds.
Something thats never talked about with cars, I imagine from engine variation and gearing being much less diverse, but is powerband and weight distribution
Inline 4-6's that feel like they wind out will always "feel" faster than a v8 or v6 that grunts with power and falls flat or has a much more linear band. Same with weight distribution and why I think bmw is still so weird about their 50/50, a heavier front/ hard load shift to the rear tires will make the car feel faster through the steering lightening up as well as just the extra movement backwards
Theres tons of cars the feel faster than they are on paper. Bmw is the undisputed king of feeling faster than their numbers
Good post. So many people are concerned with HP numbers on paper without actually considering how and if it’ll be used.
Anywhere but a track, you’re either spinning tires or relying on traction control and therefore not even using the power. Nobody is cruising at 120 mph on the highway and 300 will get you beyond that anyways.
Yeah, 200-300whp per ton is the goat range. Anything over 500whp/ton is just spec sheet racing. The lighter the better, too. At least to a certain extent when it comes to a daily, but for a pure performance toy go all out on weight reduction as long as it doesn't negatively affect the chassis.
yeah, but not quite. For lighter, and especially older cars, say a Lotus Exige, 200hp is humungous. This is simply because there is significantly less weight to lug around, and worse tyres/suspensions mean that it’s easier ti unstick.
For something that has good tyres/suspension and/or a lot of weight (modern cars) then 300 might feel a bit underwhelming. Compared to 200, you get 50% more HP, but you might be towing twice the weight, which is the case especially with EVs. Like, 150hp is enough on an MX5, but would not be enough on a Hummer.
That being said, given how awful traffic is nowadays, there’s few chances that you can actually use all the power, so your point is still valid. Also, 300hp can still be a lot for proper motorsports :)
Thing is it’s easier/more profitable to add hp than to lose weight, so there’s that.
I had a modified 1997 Buick Regal GS about a decade ago that had the supercharged V6 and around 315 horsepower.
Most powerful car I ever owned and it was a riot to drive. I can’t understand the people who think it’s not enough for most driving needs. I test drove a 4 cylinder manual Bronco and was like yea this is great. I don’t get the people screaming about it needed a V8 or whatever.
My ‘13 RS makes around 323-325hp, with strong amounts of torque as well from an N/A screaming V6, and it’s plenty fast for the public road. Never do I feel like I need MORE power whenever I drive it, and can never even really hit the 7200rpm redline, or even 3-4,000 rpm safely on the street without absolutely demolishing the speed limit lol. It regularly and casually leaves a healthy gap between me and whatever car is right on my rear just with the slightest bit of acceleration even in 3rd gear.
All that to say… 300 horsepower is more than enough for 99% of people.
Go drive a car regularly that has 400, 500 or 600+ hp.
It’s not about the 0-60 time. 20-40, 40-70, 70-90(for passing) becomes noticeably easier to do. The extra power makes every normal thing you do on the road easier. Especially if that power is paired to a good transmission and gets it down consistently? So nice.
I don’t have to slam through the gears in any of my faster cars. I don’t care to burn out my tires either. Yah shouldn’t have to drive like an angry F&F fan to feel like your car is keeping up.
Its crazy, 20 years ago, a car that had a 0-60 time in the 6's was considered fast. Really goes to show how much auto tech has advanced. And now with electric, 0-60 just doesn't matter all that much anymore.
I once read a comment saying that said that anything under 200hp is unsafe because its too slow to merge onto a highway. I have about 120 now coming from 90 and even then i never had any issues merging, just floor it everywhere
Have to agree. Have a 2.5 turbo AWD suv that’s 300 hp on the nose and 6.4 0-60. My first car was a 69 cutlass with a 350 v8 that had 10 more hp and about 1/2 second faster 0-60. It was considered a muscle car.
Also depends what kind of roads you're driving it on, of course. 200hp in a <1400kg/3000lbs hatch or small sports car is more than enough for some of the narrower roads near me.
People who say shit like that are the same people who wipe out and total their cars because they think they know how to drive 😂 any self respecting enthusiast understands that it’s more than just numbers and a dick measuring contest.
It all depends man. What exactly do you want out of your car, what even is the car, how big and heavy is it, etc. 300 might be great for what you want or it might not.
If you want a sports car to drive for fun on the weekends and maybe take to the track, you might want more than 300hp. And that’s okay.
My car has 108 hp. Still slow as fuck, but only reason it’s faster than my 230hp vehicle, is this one weighs just over 2000 lbs and is a car that can handle, vs a truck weighing 5,500lbs that’s all body roll. Power to weight is much more important than just power imo.
If you can't have fun with 300hp, then you may need a break from Forza for a bit. Can't agree any more with you, OP. My fun car is a bone stock-ish R33 Skyline. Probably 290HP, still fun as hell
I recently went from an NA Subaru Forester to a T6 Volvo XC70 with 300hp - it's so much even for a pig of a station wagon! I feel like its a ridiculous sleeper.
I mean when saying it isn't a lot just means compared to what's offered and avaible. So many cars have more so I wouldn't objectively call it a lot.
I absolutely agree though 300hp is a pretty sweet amount. You can get some very fun cars with this. Like the Golf R or Civic Type R. Even cars under 300 can be fun like the Wrx and Elantra N. Hell a Base Porsche Cayman is at 300hp and the upgrade is 350hp.
And most of these 300hp cars actually break the 5 second and are in the 4s if has a good transmission and setup.
300HP is enough even for people looking for fun. But it isn't A lot. 300hp for a daily driver is probably more then they need depending on car size.
It’s just because with modern cars and technology the 300whp benchmark is now extremely easily attainable. With that being said, most cars with 300whp or more are all fun to drive.
300HP isn't a lot in my eyes, but it's all perspective. I've had the pleasure of owning several fun cars over the last decade, starting from a stock LT1 Trans Am to a current boosted FBO C7 corvette making 700hp.
the amount of insane takes in this thread is wild to me lol just enjoy your car!!! shit is not that serious!! if ppl say 300 is slow that’s because their frame of reference is 600!! that’s not your problem that’s theirs!!
I had an Audi s1 tuned to 300 bhp (311 to be exact). It weighs about 1400kg and has a manual. That thing was so much fun to throw around a corner! Haldex isn't true 4wd, but gravel, mud or ice was amazing.
Horsepower is addictive and most people will get use to anything that isn't completely crazy. My last car was over 400 bhp and it felt super fast when I first got it. After a year it felt normal and I wanted more.
I mean it really isn't nowadays. My daily puts down roughly 300 to the wheels and weighs less than 3000 lbs and isn't very fast/quick. 10 years ago it would've been pretty good though.
The difference some people, a lot of people, cannot be happy with good enough.
I used to be one of them, chasing that dragon.
Nowadays I drive a Sonata N-Line, 290 HP and like 305 lb/ft and she handles like a dream. Car and Driver got 5 second flat 0-60 where I've only achieved 5.4 myself, but that's still plenty of power for when I need it paired with a great transmission, and the rest of the time, she gets me around quite comfortably.
Honestly, just be happy that you're one of us that actually feels that good enough is good enough, leave others to their need for speed.
I think a lot of people’s opinions of cars come from car reviewers and what people in comments of social media posts say. The 0-60 fans usually don’t end up knowing much more about cars than just what peak power and torque are.
In reality, there’s a lot more to a car than just the power. Weight is a huge factor, weight distribution is a huge factor, the feel of steering, the amount of body roll, responsiveness to inputs, power delivery, etc all matter. 0-60 boys will have you thinking that Lotus makes slow cars, but do not understand what about their design focus and language makes them unique. 300 hp is not the same everywhere. 300 hp in a family sized SUV is not the same as 300 hp in a Miata (this will likely kill you).
Also in daily driving, the amount of acceleration potential you need to pass a car is surprisingly little. I’ve passed cars on the freeway easily using cars that have like 110 BHP. That car was doing no more than like 8 sec 0-60, but point is that it doesn’t actually matter lol
300hp can feel wildly different depending on the weight of the car it’s pulling. A car that weighs 3000lbs and has 300hp will feel much faster than a car that weighs 4000lbs with the same power.
My exige was 300hp and under 1900lb with me in it. I got asked on more than one occasion if it was a Venom GT. I can't imagine a venom because my exige was fast as shit with "only 300hp".
The 250hp in my daily driver is plenty… and when I want the sportscar experience I bust out my car with 100 LESS hp. There’s just so much more to driving than outright speed.
Honestly, I'm in the apparently rare group who thinks that the amount of power in a lot of performance cars today basically make them boring to drive. Sure, it's nice to say that you've got 600hp on tap, but you're past speeding into reckless driving charges before you've even gotten through the gears. You just can't play with them anywhere other than a track. Both my vehicles are over 300hp, one a full-size truck the other a BMW 435. Both are fun to drive, and while the BMW is obviously much faster and more maneuverable, the 6.2 liter V8 in the truck is definitely peppy for a vehicle that size.
Please tell me the 650hp Camaro is from like 1972 with a ridiculous aftermarket motor and no modern traction control. That would definitely count as exciting.
Related story, a friend years ago let go of his highly modified, overpowered first-gen 300Z and got a Boxter. We gave him constant digs about being in his girlfriend's car, so he went as far as possible in the other direction and bought a Viper. That was the car he got pulled over in because he came through an apex turn around a gas station sideways, looking at the police car the entire time. He immediately pulled over, at which point the cop said while he appreciated it, why did he pull over. My friend looked at him with a straight face and said "I didn't want you driving that fast to catch me." He was a guy who could somehow get away with that kind of stuff where if I tried it I would end up in jail.
I have a 328i with jb4 and a downpipe and it does about 300hp at the wheels. I could quite easily go fast enough in a very short time on public roads to lose my license etc. But the F30 and BMW subs are full of guys who troll and engine gate-keep, insisting you need at least 400hp to make it to the beat buy or whatever
Yeah I don't need to be drag racing anyone on public roads so the HP race doesn't do anything for me. I adore driving my little souped up Elantra GT N Line Hatchback; has around 240HP at the wheel and is an absolute hoot to drive. I imagine mid-300's is about where I would stop having fun and start being scared lol
People who say 300hp is slow are usually a) always driving faster cars (a rather small percentage of the population) or b) stupid young people who get influenced by social media and don't have a grasp on reality.
You're assuming everyone is going to be driving little sedans or coupes with that 300hp...put that in a 5200lb body on frame 4x4 and things get a little different.
It’s pretty decent I would agree, it comes down to what someone is used to though. I’m loving my ATS with the 3.6/AWD, 321hp, and weighs the same as a MK7 Golf R. And that’s just on factory regular fuel tune. 0-60 is 5.1, has all the power I want for a long term daily driver without blowing up like all the 4 cylinder turbos (it already has 150k miles).
I can already tell I love the GM Alpha platform and I’m going to want a 2016+ Camaro SS next.
to me, a commuter car needs minimum 200HP to feel right on North American roads. 300 HP is where the fun starts and should be enough, unless you have a very heavy vehicle
I remember when i first started to drive i didnt know cars or engines . I drove a 2006 gmc sierra with the 195hp 4.3 v6 and weighing 4000+lbs. I figured since it was a truck it had the most powerful engine ever compared to sedans with tiny 4 bangers. I felt like i was the fastest thing on the road!... so cringe now that i look back .
I think riding quality is far more important than plain performance numbers. Sure your car may be fast, but I'd rather ride in style and get comfortably from A to B
300hp crank and wheel are two different things, 300hp wheel in an AWD car is roughly \~375 at the crank, and \~350 at the crank for a RWD car, I would put those in a different performance class depending on transmission to cars with 300 at the crank.
300hp at the crank is not slow but it's certainly not a lot... meanwhile 300 to the wheels will probably give you a low to mid 4s 0-60 which is properly quick
My STI is my summer daily driver and it has more than enough power for what I need at 300hp. I can drop a gear and get clear of any idiots on the road and I have enough jam to pass anyone on the highway. Everybody gets all excited about 0-60 times. The STI does it in just under 5 seconds if you nail the shift points and launch, but it still has good useable power from 30-80mph without nuking tires. It corners fast and flat, has enough room to seat 5 if you need it, and with the AWD it handles every surface you drive on. My little Mazda 3 GT is a quick car (tuned to make 200hp @ peak), but at times it lacks the oomph my STI has on the highway.
I've driven more powerful cars over the years, but they're either heavy as shit, too powerful for tires to grip the crap roads we have in Alberta, and aren't as planted as my STI. 300hp is the sweet spot for just enough power to be fun, but not too powerful to control flat out,
Anyone who has ever driven motorcycles knows that it's more fun to ride a low powered bike on the edge than it is to run a powerful bike at the low end of what it's capable of.
I believe the majority of car people started when they were kids, whether through hot wheels or etc. I also believe as someone growing up with a love for cars, most go through a "numbers" phase where all you pay attention to are the horsepower and statistics that can be measured by numbers. In my case that was before I owned my first "fun" car. Then after I got my first one (C6 corvette) I realized while yes the horsepower is quite nice, thats not what you end up enjoying most about the car. Its the sensations, the thrill of the power, how satisfying it sounds to hit all the RPM band, the almost fear/anxiety when on backroads/a track, and the awe when I walk out to it in the AM or fresh wash. So many great friends you make by sharing the passion and going to meets/carsncoffee. The power, 0-60's, "G's in a corner", and ultralight weight due to carbon fiber is all super cool and whats gets your attention at first, but then you realize you just like having fun with friends in a fast metal death trap at 60mph or 160mph.
TL;DR : Dont give a shit about the numbers, its all in how you feel when driving it.
Is all a weight to power ratio. 300 on a bike or a miata is lots. 300 in a pickup is ordinary.
Also, it is the power curve. 300 at 3000rpm and steady curve is great, 300 at 7000rpm with a build up curve is actually pretty lame.
We live in a world where 1000hp is pretty easily achievable. And a small block v8 or a line 6 makes 300 out of the box. Even some newer line4 turbo are 300 with some fine tuning. So people snub at a 300 number. But shove that in a strip civic, and it bougie down the strip.
The 315 or so HP in my Boxster S is absolutely a blast. It’s 4-something seconds to 60 and supposedly in mid-12 second 1/4 mile which is actually pretty quick, but it’s everything else about the car that makes it almost magical.
The 315 or so HP in my Boxster S is absolutely a blast. It’s 4-something seconds to 60 and supposedly in mid-12 second 1/4 mile which is actually pretty quick, but it’s everything else about the car that makes it almost magical.
Even ~250 hp at the wheels is the making of one of the scariest cars I've ever driven. Yes a model 3 or ioniq or even a Cayman S (also well balanced) will smoke it, but from a fun to drive perspective nothing I've driven comes close
Yeah honestly I found in a city nobody needs a lot of acceleration, 0-60 of 5-7 seconds is more than enough to get between city blocks. I used to have a mustang and having a more powerful car jerk your head everytime you accelerate gets old fast, especially once you get older.
My Toyota has around 270hp which is perfect if I ever need to merge or overtake, it's not a comfortable feeling when the car lurches forward with speed because you have 800hp and pressed too hard. Smooth driving is where it's at in the city, I wanna ride in style and comfort not being bucked forward and back endlessly. I think this is something people have to realize with age though, because I didn't think like that in my teens. Then you also have to consider getting up to speed faster in traffic means less distance and time to slow down safely (arguably most important), and sports cars might have powerful braking but if the road isn't perfectly flat and the tires aren't making perfect contact your braking distance is much farther than the average SUV. It's all about balance and practicality imo.
It's all relative I guess. My M140i has 340hp and it's plenty. If you'd have told people 20 years ago that hot hatches would have over 300hp from the factory, you'd have been laughed at.
The emergence of EV's has normalised these figures somewhat as well.
I’ve owned 17 cars to date of varying speed and driven a few very fast cars (4 seconds to 60)
Imho anything lower than about 6 seconds is pointless.. my current daily is 5.4 and it more than suffices
The problem with the stupidly quick cars is the experience is over so fast, hit the accelerator from a rolling start and 2 seconds later you are breaking the speed limit.
At least in a slightly slower car you get 3-4 seconds of joy before letting off.
Lots of dudes don’t realize my 190Hp car gets to the same red light as their 1,200Hp car, respectively.
300Hp is a lot for the main roads imo, and is just enough to have some fun, anything more and you might as well be building a track toy. These are my opinions though.
I have to agree with OP. I have a 3.0 liter supercharged Audi A7 that had around 335 hp and bumped it to around 445 hp with an APR ECU download. And while it is more responsive, it also seems like a waste of time and money in that I’m still just poking around in crowded highway traffic and in town. Looking back, 335 hp was more than fine for me and my slowpoke driving!
It comes down to weight. 300hp on a 2100lbs car is enormous. But on a 4500lbs vehicle it isn't half as much relative to performance.
My first car was 124hp and weighed 2100 lbs. It was a genuinely fun car thanks to its light weight and its 5 speed manual transmission. But at this point in my life, I've experienced so many different cars that I know exactly what I want. I want to be able to pass and/or enter traffic without having to wait for a perfect opportunity. Having over 500hp makes that super simple. I don't want to go back.
300 hp in my 2800 lb S10 is plenty. It definitely depends on the vehicle. If you can't put it down without spinning the tires, are you really using it much? I suppose at higher speeds it pulls hard but can still be a sketchy ride
Horsepower and speed become less overwhelming the more your brain gets accustomed to it. Power to weight also plays a huge difference as well. If you're driving a 149hp car and then switch to a 300hp car you'll notice it and vice versa.
Where you live and what kind of driving you do matters a lot. If you live in Texas or Florida where the roads are mostly straight and the only fun thing to do on public streets is highway roll racing then 300hp in even the lightest car isn't all that exciting. If you spend your time on tight backroads then it's a good amount of power in something small-ish.
There are a lot of casuals who who live near great back roads but never go to them and instead only do highway pulls. Big power is the only thing that feels exciting to them. I think they're doing it wrong but what do I know.
It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. I just sold my Triumph TR6 and bought a 986 Boxster S (which does not qualify as a fast car by OP's standards). The 986 is thrilling to drive, but the limits are so much higher that I rarely get close to them on the street, and when I do, it's a risky move.
I didn't enjoy a cts v i owned because it only felt exciting over 70. It was a snooze to drive on normal roads at legal speeds. It was honestly a pain to drive because I'd accidentally be going at put me in prison speeds if I didn't pay close attention. I have had many cars before and since, but my sweet spot for enjoyment is also something around 300-350 hp. I have a 340 hp Macan S right now that is in so many ways the ideal car for me. It brings a smile to my face every time I drive it.
My high school and college car had less than 110hp but gearing and low weight made it feel zippy. I was typically at the front of the line because most people don't drive their car at full tilt.
I could redline it and bang through 1st to 3rd and be only at 45mph LOL #slowcarfast
It's because cars with factory 400-500hp are pretty obtainable now by the normal worker... aging coyote mustangs which boast 400hp+ can be bought for around $20k now...
Here in the UK, that level of performance is more than enough. I've certainly experienced wet cambered English country lanes with tractors pulling out with terrible lighting in the dark! My performance demands are really with the tyres and brakes, not the engine. But in North America (I haven't been yet), I do understand the desire for performance in the engine side of things (bigger space).
I drive 1000+hp cars everyday and its really not an issue putting the power down with a proper suspension setup. Sure I can break the speed limit instantly, but there's plenty of roads near me where I can do 120+mph safely, which I do often. Not to mention driving fast cars to their limit is quite enjoyable. So to me, 300hp in anything other than a motorcycle, is a turd
Depends on the size of the tires if you can spin them. 300 total is less than what my I use in my car in eco mode. There’s more fun to be had my man. 300 is definitely not the upper limit of fun to be had in a car. And keep in mind, you rarely use all the hp a car has so if your car has a max of 300 chances are you’ve only seen like 200-250 or so.
In my opinion I think cars 400hp and over should require a special license to drive. Hell maybe even 350 should be the limit.
You just dont need that amount of power in everyday driving. Especially if the vehicle is big like a truck/suv, these things dont need to be moving anywhere quickly and theyre likely to cause the most damage from wreckless driving.
I have a car with 250HP. It's also big and heavy. I still keep up with traffic, and most times I'm in the left lane passing timid drivers in faster cars.
I also have a car with 550HP that does 0-60 in "Holy shit I'm speeding!" It's fun when the light turns green or when I'm entering the interstate, but that's about it for fun. I don't race on the streets or on the track.
However, that extra power is wonderful on the freeway. In my slower car, the brake is my main tool for avoiding idiots. In my faster car, I can either brake or accelerate if I suddenly need to be somewhere else. I like that more than I like flying away from a green light.
My race car had 350-ish wheel Ho from 4300 to 7700 and at 2700lbs, it was a rocketship.
The Stealth is 315-ish wheel hp (it can do more, but I have to sort out a MAF overrun) but at 3700lbs, it isn’t as fast. But it isn’t slow, either. I have scared the shit out of people off the line.
Once you hit 500 hp, hooking it up becomes a real problem.
It also depends on the average roads / biomes in your area. Owned a 80hp hatchback for 10 years and it never felt painfully slow. Slow, definitely. But never dangerous or anything.
230hp pushing 2800lbs still has enough pep to give me butterflies, and that's all that matters. Horsepower dick measuring contests are for Instagram influencers.
My 540i has just under 300hp and with a 6-speed manual it’s plenty fast. I can do burnouts quite easily and I can pass on the highway with ease. You really don’t need much more unless you’re drag racing or wanting bragging rights.
You are correct. That doesn’t mean that you cannot use more, if you can control it. Most people on the road with 500-600hp cars only use 300 at most anyway. I’m constantly behind some AMG car or M car puttering around as if their engine will blow up if they exceed 2500 RPM.
Social platforms like tik tok have really distorted what people believe is a “fast/quick” car. I get the sense that many of those people believe you gotta have 600 hp to have a car worth respecting. It’s insane. I have a 2017 Cadenza with 300 horsepower and I can get around anyone I want on the highway with little effort. Plus, most people don’t even need or know how to control a car with much more than that
Yeah you ain't really wrong. But thats why Power to weight matters. My 300kw at wheels Evo 9. Feels like a rocket ship. But then again not much out there's that's as fun.
My RC350 has 306. It’s definitely not a “quick” car. Top speed is there but the acceleration is lacking. The handling while I’m sure would be fine for a much better driver, just doesn’t give me enough confidence to drive it near its limit. Even then it’s still faster than 80% of the cars on the road today. I still love my car to death even though I’d probably get gapped by a base 4series 🫠.
My wifes BMW M235 is rated at 320 HP but it has twin turbos so it is scary quick. I have driven fast, well handling cars my whole life but this car kinda scares me on the road. It is plenty quick/fast enough for me especially with all the distracted drivers on the road.
I largely agree, but truly it's really a question of power:weight.
My Focus RS felt like pretty much ideal as far usable power. It was fun, but you do gotta be mindful otherwise it's really easy to get into "supremely expensive ticket or even license revocation" territory.
I agree. Too many people focus on bench racing with numbers that I suspect have never driven anything with notable power. Having owned a 500-hp fun car and driven 700+ hp fun cars, I think 500-600 is the max for street cars. At that point, you can still mostly utilize that power in a reasonably legal fashion ... you'll still smoke the tires like crazy from a launch but once rolling, provided you have decent tires, you can get that to the ground for some fun acceleration without reaching triple digits. Going beyond 600, you'll just have the computer constantly cutting in for traction control, even at 100 mph, which has no business on the street anyway. Or, you turn off TC and just pedal the car or do more smoke shows at speed, which also has no business on the street. So at that point, you're bascially paying for bragging rights on a number versus power you can actually enjoy on a daily basis.
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AmericanExcellence@reddit
the over-under gateway to "real performance" has long been ~5.5 seconds 0-60, 1/4-mile in 14 seconds flat @100 mph, ~0.90 g roadholding, and < 170 feet 70-0. you don't even need 300 hp for that. but, when you've driven 600 hp+, your frame of reference shifts. to each their own.
RhymeGrime@reddit
On the road it's all pointless, 300 hp still breaks the speed limits in seconds.
D-Smitty@reddit
Why use lot second when few second do trick?
Nellies_Daddy@reddit
Yes, but 600 hp breaks the speed limit more quickly.
lostboyz@reddit
which means less time to enjoy it. It's part of why I love my abarth. It's not fast, but with so much drama, you think you are.
spongebob_meth@reddit
Missing the point. Absurd acceleration is very enjoyable, even if it only lasts for a few seconds.
Taking vehicles to the track also exists.
lostboyz@reddit
No doubt, but you're actually talking about a second or two at best for most places I drive. If I lived near an on-ramp I'd have something to take advantage of it.
I'm still working on the driver mod on-track, a faster car isn't going to help me just yet.
Long way of saying, it all depends on your situation. Of course fast cars are fun, but that doesn't always mean they are more fun.
spongebob_meth@reddit
Ehh, I have never driven a car that wouldn't be more fun if it were more fast.
lostboyz@reddit
it's not about the car as much as where you're going to drive it. A scooter could be more fun than all cars if you're in a gridlocked city. Of course a fast car is more fun if you have places where you can go fast. If you don't there really isn't a point beyond a certain level. There's countless stories of people who built their car beyond the point of it being fun to even drive it on the street.
spongebob_meth@reddit
Sitting in gridlock isn't fun no matter what you're driving. At that point you value comfort over anything else.
SecretPotatoChip@reddit
That's why I love the BRZ and miata so much
The_Vat@reddit
True - we have a local "mountain run" and my old NB MX-5 was more fun there than our Golf R mainly because you could run the MX-5 through there at about 70 - 80% of its capabilities, so the car was "working" but there was enough margin for the various issues that one encounters on a "mountain run", whereas the Golf's really not stretched at all at those speeds and if you were to dial it up to 70 - 80% of its abilities, suddenly all that margin for external issues disappears and if something does go wrong its going to be a massive accident.
On a track the R is ridiculously competent.
TookEverything@reddit
Always such a weird take on this sub.
Some people enjoy flooring it and going nowhere, while some of us don’t find that enjoyable at all.
lostboyz@reddit
I'm not sure I understand your comment. I'm not saying it's objectively better to have a slow car, just mentioning a downside of having a fast one. I loved driving fast cars for work and for fun on the track, but I wouldn't want a daily driver that can hit nearly every speed limit in 1st gear.
TookEverything@reddit
It’s still fun to find an open road and do a few pulls. You don’t need to be going way past the speed limit to enjoy a lot of power. Just the sensation of having your face ripped off by gravity is a ton of fun.
Also people here always act like having a lot of power means your car magically can’t corner anymore.
JayBee58484@reddit
Yea this has always bothered me with this sub, it's a car sub but let's shit on people who enjoy big power. Such a weird take, I personally can never go back to a low powered car. Boost is addicting lol
lostfate2005@reddit
It’s because 90% of this sub has never driven an an actually fast car and wants to make themselves feel better about what they have
HeftyNugs@reddit
I think a lot of people also forget it's not just about speed. This is obviously preference, but rowing gears (and paddle shifting), hearing the noises your car makes, and drivetrain are a huge part of the enjoyment too which is why "slow" cars and fast cars can be enjoyed all the same.
Furrykedrian98@reddit
Yeah the whole "better to drive a slow car fast" thing. I honestly agree with that idea, you're way more engaged pushing your car more of the time with a slower or worse handling car. Also, on the track, being off your line or brake point isn't going to carry you through the gravel into the barrier if pushing means 60 through the turn and not 90.
On the other hand it's really fun to have something that can basically slam you into the seat at any time if you stomp the pedal. Useless most of the time, but amazing when it's there. It also takes real skill to push something like that because you basically can never be 100% on throttle outside of a straight line. You have to know and feel the limits of your traction vs just knowing you don't have enough power to break loose so you send it through every corner.
-GenlyAI-@reddit
This is why it's subjective, I hate slow cars on the road, enjoy them on the track. Just because a car is fast doesn't mean you have to floor it everywhere, they're more fun to drive casually as well.
HOONIGAN-@reddit
This is also car dependent. I drove a 600whp C7 last week that was borderline boring at low speed. The long gears combined with the low-end torque meant you were always below 2000rpm, even halfway up the rev range and you're getting to impound territory.
I get the high-power appeal/buzz, but for everyday driving it feels like a waste.
-GenlyAI-@reddit
My c7 is tons of fun, because half way up the rev range is only like 80 in 4th gear. Not going to get impounded for that. And 650 lb-ft is crazy fun in the curves.
PoniesPlayingPoker@reddit
Hell yeah brother I'm the same way in mine
edinburghiloveyou44@reddit
The Abarth is such a fun car. It’s fast in its own way, and the sound is so addicting. I’d love to have one.
lostboyz@reddit
I finally threw some money at it over the winter and am closer to 200hp now and makes so many obnoxious noises. I'm going to keep it as long as I have space for it.
travoltaswinkinbhole@reddit
Same with the Fit I used to have. Much more fun to drive a slow car “fast” than a fast car slow.
njmids@reddit
I’ll take half the time but twice the acceleration any day.
WMMoorby@reddit
Old base Integra for the win. Inside the car is like the opening of Baby Driver. Outside the car, people are wishing I'd get a move on.
Jimbenas@reddit
Every time I’ve been in a fiat it seemed like it was on the verge of breaking down just to get to the speed limit.
newtonreddits@reddit
It doesn't mean only smaller slower cars are fun. Both an Abarth and a new 911 turbo can be fun in different ways.
AuthorUnique5542@reddit
New 911 turbo is the most Drs car ever
lostboyz@reddit
Haha of course not, just pros and cons to everything. Slower cars CAN be more fun depending on what the situation is. Fast car fast is better than slow car fast which is better than fast car slow.
Nellies_Daddy@reddit
This made me chuckle. I had a new 2007 VW Rabbit between hot rods. That thing was a blast to drive because it was so chaotic. Torque steer. Wheel hop. Transaxle grenading on the expressway. Using McDonald’s trays to do donuts. 😂😂😂
lostboyz@reddit
I have added an intake that goes into the cowl and an atmospheric BOV, there is SO much noise just getting to 30mph it's a blast!
specialcommenter@reddit
I also think my 2001 manual transmission V6 Camry is fun. Fun wheel spin, fun V6 sound, nicely spaced gears. No rev hang.
PRSArchon@reddit
Which car enthousiasts consider as a bad thing
TookEverything@reddit
You must not meet many car enthusiasts.
PRSArchon@reddit
Most car enthousiasts want to be able to enjoy a nice mountain road without going 80mph before they reach redline
TookEverything@reddit
Sounds like a skill issue.
You’re thinking about gearing, not power.
PRSArchon@reddit
Gearing has nothing to do with skill. Most high power cars have way higher speed in 2nd and third gear than lower power car. You can row through the gears at legal speeds in a miata, in a high power car you reach illegal speeds by the end of second gear.
TookEverything@reddit
Miata tops out at 70 in 2nd, the Supra tops out at 69, and a C7 at 72. They’re all hitting illegal speeds in 3rd.
Please know what you’re talking about.
Nellies_Daddy@reddit
Is that a question or a statement?
If it’s a question, the answer is “none.”
If it is a statement, then you have never met a car enthusiast in your life.
PRSArchon@reddit
Most reddit threads are full of car enthousiast who prefer light cars with less horsepower so you can actually use the engine to redline before going 100mph
Nellies_Daddy@reddit
I prefer light cars with more horsepower.
Sub-3,000 lbs with 500+ horsepower is pretty much the best of both worlds. Fast as hell, very streetable, and can be a track monster with the right suspension/tire combo.
SophistXIII@reddit
Yeah, but, can you even merge on a freeway safely with only 300hp? /s
TP_Crisis_2020@reddit
I feel like many people nowadays drive like heat seeking missiles: floor it from the stoplight and full throttle until you're half an inch from the bumper of the car in front of you, then slam on your brakes. Traffic pace is a lot faster now.
Time-Maintenance2165@reddit
Not when you're behind a car that wants to merge at 30 mph under the speed limit. It's nice to just get around them and not wait forever for them to get up to speed.
daly_o96@reddit
I used to drive a 68 hour diesel. I fear nothing
Not_Daijoubu@reddit
People want to safely pass the guy going 90mph by going 120mph. Can't do that in a miata!
HateBeingSober33@reddit
148hp enjoyer here, no
midnight_tuna@reddit
147hp tolerator here, YES.
HedonisticFrog@reddit
124hp enjoyer here, definitely sketchy especially with four gears and 4000lb.
g3nerallycurious@reddit
If you care a lot about the speed limit, drive a Camry. I don’t get why people with fast cars care about the speed limit like there’s a cop everywhere. I drive over the speed limit ~10 mph 90% of the time for the last 10 years in my Ford Focus and now Jeep Renegade, neither of which are fast cars, and haven’t gotten a speeding ticket. I’m not proposing recklessness, at all. But it’s easy to go over the speed limit and never put anyone’s life in danger (including yourself) and never get a ticket. If you wanna have fun under the speed limit buy an open cockpit, open wheeled vehicle.
The_Bucket_Of_Truth@reddit
My sports car has 414 hp, and it feels like it should have more. Gearing though matters too.
Time-Maintenance2165@reddit
There's the edge cases like being able to safely pass in more situations on single lane roads.
spongebob_meth@reddit
By this logic, nobody needs a car that makes more than about 65hp.
the_lamou@reddit
My project is a '79 Prelude with the original 70-ish HP 1.8 CVCC engine and five-speed transmission. It will also break the speed limit in seconds (~19 of them). As will a Prius Mk1 (~14). I actually can't think of a mass production car released in the last 70 years that couldn't break the speed limit in seconds. So I assume your point is that driving anything with more than 50HP is pointless? Or is there some arbitrary limit that only you get to decide?
RhymeGrime@reddit
yes, I am the gatekeeper
cubs223425@reddit
Not everything is about speed limits or top speed though. Having had to drive behind semis and tractors on two-lane roads in the country, comfortable, responsive acceleration is pretty important. Having a turbo 4-cylinder with < 200 HP in a full-size sedan with over 150K miles doesn't instill confidence. There are plenty of times I don't attempt a pass because my car is generally not fast AND its age has meant the acceleration isn't as responsive or consistent.
For others (and myself), acceleration matters a lot on highways as well (both merging and changing lanes). I'm not trying to get 0-100 so much as 65-80 on highways or 45-60 on country roads where I need to pass quickly.
pale_blue_problem@reddit
I recently bought a new car with 485hp, all wheel drive, BEV (so add instant max torque to the equation) and I found that even using half the pedal was a bit much for legal road driving.
In traffic I can accelerate fast enough to gain several car lengths in about 2 seconds, which I realized is problematic if someone wants to merge into my lane and last time they looked I was 4 car lengths back. With that in mind I drive even more conservatively in traffic, only using about 1/3 of the pedal.
However, on any open road situation that HP is so much damn fun! Everything else I’ve driven thus far feels ridiculously slow in comparison. I guess the only way to go now is more power ;)
Dirtyace@reddit
700hp breaks it in less seconds tho…..
-GenlyAI-@reddit
It's not pointless though, you don't have to floor it, having a lot of torque is a lot of fun everywhere, in every gear.
WonderfulPen7098@reddit
Its not pointless
TP_Crisis_2020@reddit
This is possible because of modern driving aides. Traction control, launch control, stability control.. all of that stuff on a modern car is light years ahead of what it was like for older cars. 600hp in a new Camaro is easier to handle because of this, while 600hp in a '01 Camaro is a nightmare to handle on the street.
chlronald@reddit
Any car nomination that fit all those requirement?
SecretPotatoChip@reddit
Elantra N gets pretty close.
opeth10657@reddit
My Fusion Sport will do it with the optional summer tires
Comfortable car, but heavy. The ecoboost 2.7 is just so torquey that it feels like it has more HP
ArtoriasAbysswalker6@reddit
My wrx with intake and tune makes just under 300 and does about 5 seconds to 60, while being practical enough as a daily driver (4 doors, hatchback for space, AWD for heavy winters).
int0xic@reddit
350z does 5ish seconds 0-60 and runs a 14 second ¼ mile @ 100mph. Does it stock so it stays reliable and can be had for not too much money.
elpoutous@reddit
Yep. The 350z was a great little car. Just pure fun. Promise I am not biased.
rugbyj@reddit
M240i smashes all of them and comes in Tinky Winky purple.
A_Right_Proper_Lad@reddit
Even the 230i meets all of these criteria:
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a40119682/2022-bmw-230i-by-the-numbers/
Positive_Mud952@reddit
Hell, even the G30 beats them all.
rugbyj@reddit
no purp tho
FesteringNeonDistrac@reddit
Mazdaspeed3 is a 10th over on the 1/4 and 0-60. Kills the braking number.
Whatever. It's a fucking hoot to drive.
reductase@reddit
My Veloster N beats all those so I’d assume any of the hot hatches do as well. Type R, etc.
BroKick19@reddit
How has your Veloster been holding up? Looks like a great car but remembering Hyundais track record I kinda forgot about this car.
reductase@reddit
Quite well, I've got a 2019 from when it first came out and I enjoy it quite a bit. My previous cars were an 8th gen Civic Si and a Fiesta ST (tuned, E40, full bolt ons). The mode switching really makes it IMO, has a real Jekyll and Hyde type personality. I can be a good boy in normal mode and my wife doesn't complain about the exhaust, or I can put it into N mode and rip around the country back roads. Never had any issues with it, I think whatever they did to the N engines made it not susceptible to the typical Theta II issues.
jawnlerdoe@reddit
Tuned ND Miata 😉
sleevieb@reddit
like a chip tune?
jawnlerdoe@reddit
Yeah. You can get an almost 10% power bump from. A $400 tune. Nothing like a turbo car, but it’s enough to make a difference. People pick up 40whp from headers, and an E85 tune.
sleevieb@reddit
wild. This is an ECU flash or a piggy back or what?
jawnlerdoe@reddit
ECU flash using either versatuner or ECUTEK. Fab9 and XeroLimit are the popular tuners in the US.
Assassin4Hire13@reddit
Buy ND, throw a pile of cash at Brian Goodwin, ????, profit.
jawnlerdoe@reddit
My life, basically lol.
Assassin4Hire13@reddit
Oh, I know lol. I have an NC and bought their coil over setup they released last year. It’s kinda wild to me to be able to buy brand new products from R+D that’s still happening on a nearly 20 year old chassis.
Western_Big5926@reddit
Miata is always the answer
Sids2112@reddit
I think most entry level RWD-based Germans do this? My C300 does all that while being a ‘sensible’ and comfortable car.
Nhojj_Whyte@reddit
Unironically the 4cyl ecoboost Mustangs are right at the cusp of this while being cheap, abundant, and very moddable (at least in the US). 0-60 is anywhere from 6 seconds down to 4.5 depending on model year and trim, and their 1/4 sprint is likewise high 13s @ ~98mph to low 14s @ ~95 mph.
I don't know for sure about grip or stopping distance, but that's as much about wheel and tire choice as it is the dynamics of the car itself, and I personally feel like the base 8" wide wheels are a little too small for their torque.
I wish I had a cheaper "shitbox" option if you just care about having a "fast" car above all else, but with modern safety and amenities this is the one.
cheezus_crisco@reddit
For shit box options, a C4 Corvette fits this bill on the cheap
HeftyNugs@reddit
335i and 340i - although some of the newer ones are about the same price.
icemerc@reddit
Those aren't really that hard to hit. A stock BRZ/GT86 gets all but the 1/4 mile. With some minor bolt on parts it would hit it.
0-60 5.4 secs
14.3 sec 1/4 mile @ 99mph
0.93g average skidpad
70-0mph braking 143ft
Stock it's only got 228hp.
BadResults@reddit
New cars under 300hp that hit those performance metrics include the GR86/BRZ, WRX, and Elantra N. Corolla GR has 300hp on the dot and higher performance overall.
The GTI and Mazda 3 Turbo are both close but their 0-60 and 1/4 are just a little slower, and the Mazda 3 is under .90g on the skidpad. The Miata can hit 0-60 in 5.5 but 1/4 is consistently over 14.
I’m sure there’s more that I’m missing, these are just some that occurred to me to confirm.
Base model muscle cars used to fall in this category but they’re over 300hp now and crush these numbers.
QingQangQong@reddit
My Stinger does most except the braking and I'm not sure about the road handling.
bowling128@reddit
Probably going to be downvoted to oblivion but the model 3 does it for under $40k.
BigDaddyDumperSquad@reddit
Probably gonna get hate here... Ecoboost Mustang.
icemerc@reddit
This more than anything. Once you've gotten used to having more power, everything else just feels inadequate.
kutsen39@reddit
Hell, my Civic is 210hp, and my fiance's Passat, which I drove before her, is 170. I can't stand that fuckin thing anymore, it's so slow. It's only 40hp difference. I can't imagine doubling it.
tony78ta@reddit
A basic Jetta has those stats. I got two of em (17, 19). The 17 is by far much more fun and handles better.
Duct_tape_bandit@reddit
Im so used to 1.2g that anything else is boring. 1.2g is the same force as a 2.27s 0-60 making anything straight line you can come up with terminal boredom
once i finish aero it'll be 1.5g = 1.82s 0-60
TookEverything@reddit
Wait till you hear you can go fast in a straight line, AND around a corner.
Duct_tape_bandit@reddit
Very expensive, very diminishing returns. I can't afford that for 25 track days a year yet
DefaultDanceDD@reddit
So basically most VQ equipped cars
jlr2387@reddit
We live in a weird time - an explorer st breaks that threshold on all parameters but skid pad (respectable 0.86g isn’t bad for a three row family hauler). Albeit it needs 400 HP to do that.
We have all been desensitized to power and performance in the past decade+
RacerKaiser@reddit
True, but I find frame of reference shifts especially when you are in the passenger seat. 300hp feels a hell of a lot faster.
MustangCoyote@reddit
The internet has ruined car culture. If it's not a manual jdm car with a thousand horsepower then it sucks and it's slow.
382hp@reddit
cars (mainly driving) is/are one of my favorite things, and I think the fact that I'm not part of the "car community" whatsoever has made it a better experience
baseball_mickey@reddit
I truly wonder how many of those people have actually driven a stick shift, or even a car over 300 hp.
My Mazda 6 had 180hp, stick. Had it had more hp, that speeding ticket I got likely would have gotten me arrested.
red_fuel@reddit
It’s especially bad with EV’s. If it doesn’t do 0-60 in less than 2,5 seconds it’s slow because TeSlA iS fAStEr!! So stupid. For me anything under 6 seconds is quick, 4-5 seconds is sports car territory, 3-4 seconds supercar, less than 3 hypercar performance
b00st3d@reddit
There’s a lot more to performance than a 0-60
A Z51 C8 Stingray can do a <3sec 0-60 and that’s far from a hypercar
NeverSeenBetter@reddit
Hard seconded. If it won't round a corner faster than a Camry, what even is the point...
stoned-autistic-dude@reddit
The only people who care about 0-60 are teenagers and rich kids who bought speed and not skill. "My car is faster" cool bro 👍 Everyone else just vibes.
ZannX@reddit
Unfortunately most people aren't driving enough cars to be able to understand or compare them. So social media is what people use to substitute real life experiences. And 0-60 times / drag races are easy low effort content that people drink up.
That said, my Model Y Performance punches me in the gut in a way that my C8 can't even reproduce. But the C8 has a magical blend of visceral V8 noises and modern engineering that the Tesla can't satisfy. My manual BRZ is slowest to 60, but the whole experience is completely different than the other two and also valid. These cars just different, and I appreciate them all for what they are.
stoned-autistic-dude@reddit
I've dailied my S2000 for going on 7 years and love momentum cars. I learned how to drive instead so I'm part of the "ignore the internet camp." Never mind the fact I can't afford another car, I don't need anything faster. Speed has diminishing returns--there will always be something out there that will take the wind out of your sails. And from what I've gathered, people either keep chasing that rush of speed until they're broke or revert to Miata.
Kony_Stark@reddit
Miata is always the answer.....unless s2k is possible
AKJangly@reddit
K-Miata seems a good rival to the S2K.
DIYMike did a video on his 300HP naturally aspirated K20/K24 that I'd like to replicate. No turbo kit or supercharger to weigh it down, just an adapter plate to bolt it up.
Can't think of much better than that combination of parts.
stratusfear@reddit
Ah, a fellow man of culture
crazyautoexperiments@reddit
It appears you know a fine motor vehicle "IS500"
I am literally weeks off from buying a ISF we didn't get the IS500s in Australia so latest model I can get is 2014...
It may be possible to import a IS500 maybe I should enquire, I think we changed the importing laws here
ducky21@reddit
I'm sure they've made a better car in the 15 years since 2009, but I haven't driven it
stratusfear@reddit
I’m not sure Honda will ever or could ever make another 2 seater as good or better than this one tbh. They’d either bean counter it to death or it would cost more than anyone would be willing to pay for it.
lmaogoshi@reddit
That makes at least 2 of us
fatitalianstallion@reddit
I’m in a different camp. More power is always wanted until reliability becomes impacted. Learned that with modding my trx. Front axles are now consumables with no tested upgrade in sight. I don’t have the patience with a family to deal with trips to the shop.
stoned-autistic-dude@reddit
I don’t live in Texas. My friends and I all meet at the top of a really tight canyon to hang out multiple times a week.
Wiseguy_7@reddit
Reject hyper cars, embrace Miata
crshbndct@reddit
I ride a fast bike that revs to 12000 and makes 200hp and a slow bike that revs to 19,000 rpm and makes 45hp.
Both are fun in their own way but there is always a bigger fish. I just enjoy it. I’m looking for a GT86 at the moment actually.
No-Bodybuilder-9686@reddit
Hondas are the most fun, I really miss my old B16a2 swapped Acura 1.6 EL. Had a rear disc conversion, Koni yellows, control arms, Mugen twin-loop muffler, and sticky tire. Super visceral and fun to drive, even if far from fast.
I always wanted a LHD DC2 ITR, or an S2000, but by the time I was in a position to seriously consider it local examples all had jumped 2x or more in value
kunzinator@reddit
The amount of G's you can pull through a tight turn is far more important than how fast you can leave a stoplight in your dust.
iGabyTM@reddit
You got some cars 🤯 very nice!
Smarty_771@reddit
This is a great conversation. My ‘20 STi is bone stock under the hood. But god damn is it fun to drive. It’s not the fastest, but on lowering springs with spacers it corners like nothing else and driving fast is invigorating in it. The noises are perfect too. Not to mention I’ve beaten mustangs, chargers, challengers, and cameros in quick drag races. “Skill issue!” Lol. I’m always trying to improve my driving too so I can get the most out of what I’m driving. I have no desire at the moment to make it “faster.” I love it for what it is.
callyfit@reddit
Solid garage!
BeingRightAmbassador@reddit
Life is better when you ignore the opinions of people who don't pay their own bills.
l5555l@reddit
Also a Tesla is not competing with a real sports car on any track. Too heavy and will overheat or just run the battery down way too fast.
oldfartpen@reddit
Those would be the kids featuring on FB reels displaying their crash skills by burning out their lambos on a corner..neat stuff!..rofl
jasonmoyer@reddit
I'm a racecar driver cause I do highway pulls.
kaihong@reddit
Almost every car guy I run into at a car meet says something like that. Almost.
Specialist-Size9368@reddit
Uh no. Lotta people buying the cars care. Lotta people with older cars care and mod their vehicle to have 3x the power it came with.
I disagree with them but they do still care.
kaihong@reddit
This is why I transitioned my interest towards track driving where handling matters. Internet car guys tend to not care about handing.
Personally, I haven't seen any Tesla's on the podium at any of my time attack events. They need to survive the entire day 8:00am to 4:00pm of qualifying, and Top 6 or Top 8 best lap times per class make it into finals where the Top 3 of each class get podium. Where are the Tesla cars?
crshbndct@reddit
HyperCar=Supercar+extra gear for super high top speed.
havenothingtolose@reddit
It’s that top end torque, 70-120 in 3 seconds is wild.
Jaggerjaquez714@reddit
The fucking mong brains will never understand that 0-60 isn’t everything.
Have hung out of the back of an M4 in a standard fiesta on a b road in the UK, cos they only knew how to drive in straight lines😂
PRSArchon@reddit
My EV does 0-62 in 9s (had to google it) but at traffic lights up to 45mph it accelerates faster than my Porsche Boxster S. It has the same torque but it has less than half the horsepower.
ignore_my_typo@reddit
This makes no sense.
Porsche Boxster S states it does 0-60 in about 4.5 seconds.
How the fuck does your EV accelerate faster than your Porsche up to 45mph but then take 5 seconds to get to 62mph?
😂
PRSArchon@reddit
My boxster S does 0-62 in 5.5s and that is if you launch it. Most normal people dont want to launch their car at every traffic light, it also takes time to get the revs up when the light goes green unless you are just waiting at 5000rpm in neutral. The EV you just drive without drama at full throttle. And the EV does indeed drops off a lot .
ignore_my_typo@reddit
I own an EV. I understand torque and power drop off.
But there is not a chance in hell you’re going to convince me that an EV power drop off is as significant as OP stated.
In fact he said his EV is FASTER than his Porsche Boxster S from 0-45mph.
If you claim your Porsche does 0-60 in 5.5s then what will it do 0-45?
Because that just makes me statement even more true as OP suggests it takes his EV 9 secs to get to 62mph.
So what. Power drop off that significant that it takes his EV 5+ seconds to get from 45 to 62 mph?😂
There is not a chance in hell a car as a power reduction that significant after doing 0-45 in less than 5 seconds.
Ran4@reddit
It isn't as fast, but it probably feels faster.
My wife's Toyota Auris does 0-100 in 11 seconds, yet it feels faster at lower speeds than my old base 981 did (0-100 in 5.7s).
PRSArchon@reddit
I dont think you are getting the point. My Boxster doesn't actually do 0-62 in 5.5s, that is only on paper with an ideal launch. In a practical daily traffic light scenario it is easily 1s or more extra since I am not clutch dropping at 5k rpm as soon as the light goes from red to green, and i have to shift to second gear (45 is after the shift).
The EV on the otherhand always has perfect acceleration at every traffic light and also has more torque from stand still.
If i find an app that can make acceleration graphs for free ill overlay them and post it on reddit.
crshbndct@reddit
0-50 in 5 seconds, 50-60 in 10 seconds.
Isn’t it obvs?
^/^s
ReallyBadAtReddit@reddit
What the other user is saying is that they drive up to 45mph faster in traffic while driving the EV than while driving the Boxster. What you're saying is that the Boxster is a higher performance car, which is also true.
I have a Miata that's theoretically able to manage 0-60 in about 9 seconds, but what that actually requires is revving it up to about 7000 RPM through first and second gear. That's absolutely not what I do when commuting around other cars though, because it would look obnoxious. I give it maybe 50% throttle up to around 4000 RPM if I'm trying to accelerate quickly without other drivers thinking I'm trying too hard. That means I might not usually use more than 50hp when accelerating, so a similarly sized EV with only 50hp could still keep up, even with less than half the power.
Of course, that's not going to mean a less powerful EV would be faster in a race, but in traffic, people will happily use the full power of an EV because it's just so easy and subtle with no engine noise.
snakeproof@reddit
A funny example of this is the Prius. 0-30 is on par with high performance cars, yet the 0-60 is 10 seconds.
They're a blast to drive in the city, all the punch of a Porsche and you can haul a full size dryer.
canikony@reddit
Yeah that is crazy... I had a Fiat 500e that 0-30 could smoke most cars easily off the line but had a pretty tremendous fall off from 30-60. It was perfect for around town but highway driving was not its strong suit.
harebreadth@reddit
It does make sense, the initial part is faster, up to 30-45mph, then it takes longer to get to 62mph.
I can feel it in my Plugin Hybrid SUV, because the electric motor has all the torque from 0, the ICE has to rev up higher to get the same output and it’s very noticeable from 0 to 30
ignore_my_typo@reddit
A fall off completely makes sense. But not a 5 sec to gain 15mph.
harebreadth@reddit
I re read the comment and you’re right, I missed the part where the fall off is longer than the first part. I stand corrected and thanks.
rsta223@reddit
Having had a 987 Cayman S, there's no chance your boxster is slower if you actually launch it properly.
That having been said, for everyday use, you're not gonna be launching your boxer every time, while launching the EV just involves flooring the accelerator.
PRSArchon@reddit
100% agree, that is exactly my point. And comparing a the two daily scenarios the EV is faster with significantly less HP.
Andrey2790@reddit
Idk 0-60 does matter quite a bit to me, above that not as much.
Most of the roads around me have 50/55mph speed limits, so having a car that does that in 4.5s vs 9s makes a difference. You can enter the road without having to wait for everyone to clear out. Also nice to not have to make a whole plan when overtaking on a highway, just give it power and go.
PRSArchon@reddit
A 9s car can overtake very easily though
Andrey2790@reddit
You can overtake in anything, but how long does it take? Let's say we're all on a highway going 70 and you want to overtake, how many seconds of acceleration do you need before you can safely get in front?
Probably quite a few, compared to a car that can add 10mph in like two seconds. So it's a lot more convenient and safe than waiting and hoping the other driver isn't an ass and blocks you.
llamacohort@reddit
I think standards just change as technology gets better. And EVs offer very good acceleration for the money. For example, my Model Y Performance cost mid 40s and the 0-60 is like 3.7 seconds. I wouldn’t put it into the supercar bracket just because it’s fast.
I think of fast EVs as the modern generation’s muscle cars. They offer a lot of horsepower for the money and punch above their weight class in some key areas. But when it comes down to it, if you are in the market for a Z06 Corvette or used super car, you aren’t really cross shopping a Model 3 Performance like it’s in the same bracket.
Judge_Bredd3@reddit
At least based off driving my boss's model S plaid, they also got the muscle car handling. It can accelerate like a bat out of hell, but did not feel good hitting corners.
llamacohort@reddit
Well, yeah. It’s a 5,000 pound sedan. It’s not a sports car. I would expect it to handle corners somewhere similar to the full size luxury cars. Like an S8 or AMG S-Class.
PrimalPuzzleRing@reddit
I like my '24 M3P, it's plenty fast and I'm having fun with it. I mostly keep on standard (3.7s mode) when I'm just going to and from work to save power and tires, otherwise I'd burn through these 20" lol but the biggest thing that not many people take into consideration is pedal confidence. It's like I know 100% I'll get the power I want and when I want. Other cars I would be like oh my launch control didn't work well, oh I'm not in E85, ah my hpfp or injectors going out. So for a daily I really like it. I'll most likely get a dedicated track car soon enough after I get a different job. I make good money but I need track weekend money 😂
llamacohort@reddit
Yeah, I think cars are getting better about that, but EVs obviously deliver that a lot better. But the small twin turbo engines do a good job of hitting max torque before 2000 RPMs. But with an AWD EV, it’s just right there at all times.
One thing that I think highlights that is car and driver’s 50-70mph test in top gear. Even my model Y will get there faster than every gas car I’ve ever seen. There is no downshift, no getting RPMs or turbo spun up. It just goes.
NyteQuiller@reddit
I have a fondness for EVs just because of how cost effective they are and the rediculous 0-60 speed and top speed is just icing on the cake. I don't have any delusions of them being eco-friendly but it is a small step in the right direction.
llamacohort@reddit
Same. It’s a very good rate for the power and utility.
AdCareless9063@reddit
I've had a bunch of EVs. The torque from zero is too much for passengers. I get queasy when my wife drives (even on "low" regen) and I find the high pitched noise irritating. It's like a dentist drill (or ultrasonic scalar maybe).
Rideshare drivers are really bad with it. When I get a Tesla on uber/lyft I cancel.
smsmsm10@reddit
TIL my M340 is a supercar. I am now impressed with myself
Firework_Fox@reddit
Nah a lot of EVs suck cuz they're slower and have less range. Or they're equal in one but severely lacking in the other.
The Kia EV6 GT. Phenomenally Quick, and very good looking (especially after lowering it). But the range is non-existent.
mangosmoothie16@reddit
I've owned some fast stuff, bikes, 600+ whp mustang, etc. drove my friends solterra without knowing jack about it. It felt legitimately quick. I was shocked when I saw the 0-60 was 6.5 seconds. Felt way faster than that.
red_fuel@reddit
Yeah some cars feel quick when on paper they're not. I've got to drive in a Range Rover Sport 3.6 TDV8 with 272hp and about 640Nm or torque. It did 0-60 in 9-ish seconds but felt quicker than that because it pulled so hard.
UnnamedStaplesDrone@reddit
A car being a sports car for having 4-5s 0-60 is a bold categorization.
red_fuel@reddit
Cars have become a lot quicker over the years but when I grew up it only used to be sports cars that could hit those times. Now a 540d can do it too, but for me it's still a time usually reserved for sportscars
russsl8@reddit
I'll tell you what. After having quite a few mid to high-ish RWD V8 cars from GM.... My Kia EV6 GT is soooo much quicker than anything I've had before. Even my CTS-V Wagon which was no slouch. It's fun.
doomsdaymelody@reddit
I've driven a number of 300+ hp cars, and the car that FELT like it was the fastest was a 2015 Fiesta ST. Thing had less than 200 hp at the crank, but it always felt like the engine was moving nothing. I have an E90 328i, and its actually faster that the FIesta ST, but judging from the drivers seat I would say it would be substantially slower.
No-Bodybuilder-9686@reddit
It’s the new
“BbbbBbUtTtt R35 GTR laps ____ faster!!!!! You wasted your $ buying what you wanted!”
thesecretbarn@reddit
0-60 in 6 seconds is 90s Ferrari performance. Yes that's fast enough for me, thanks.
CouncilmanRickPrime@reddit
You can blame Tesla for repeatedly using drag races to generate hype.
Brapplezz@reddit
I can't wait to own an electric car. They don't all rip your face off and I can't see how a "slow" but torquey isn't fun.
After writing that it sounds an awful like old vision lmak
EasyPeezyATC@reddit
My Blackwing is the best enthusiast car I've driven and I've driven faster cars. Straight line speed or even track speed isn't everything. It's just hard to convey that when numbers are simple.
kaihong@reddit
This is why I transitioned my interest towards track driving where handling matters. Internet car guys tend to not care about handing.
Personally, I haven't seen any Tesla's on the podium at any of my time attack events. They need to survive the entire day 8:00am to 4:00pm of qualifying, and Top 6 or Top 8 best lap times per class make it into finals where the Top 3 of each class get podium. Where are the Tesla cars?
JJYellowShorts@reddit
Hyper cars is more based on price I would say
Initial-Reading-2775@reddit
Average Joe can only flex with those 0-60, launching from the traffic light. So he can finally overtake those pesky R1 and Hayabusas. He isn’t going to race in Dakar or at Nurburgring anyway.
smollestsnail@reddit
It's especially bad with EVs because even as a Tesla owner my car specs kick ass and the car is fun AF... up until the brand nane is revealed then suddenly it's "sooooooo boring", or so I hear - especially and specifically according to people who have nearly universally never even ridden in one, much less driven one.
It's hyper-eyerolly, but thankfully does literally nothing to diminish my thrills, which very much include the kind of perfectionism-in-feathering only really achievable through the efficiency of single-pedal driving or being a skill level on manual most people don'tseem to even bother aspiring to.
If you talk to car peeps about what gives a car soul and brings the joy of driving we match on most accounts, until/unless it's discovered on reddit that I drive an EV then suddenly those things cAn OnLy PoSsIbLy ApPlY to cars that make noise - nevermind, of course, the noticible audible similarity to a literal jet engine.
TookEverything@reddit
TIL my Golf was hypercar.
Snoo93079@reddit
Yeah my base model 3 has all the performance I need. AWD model would be nice but I can't comprehend why I'd spend even more on the performance for pretty much the same car driving experience.
RecommendationUsed31@reddit
I have an automatic jdm with 310 horses. I'm happy with it.
megasmash@reddit
I read a comment here the other day about how a 2sec difference in a 0-60 time “isn’t a huge deal”.
I’d consider myself a car guy, and I know the time, work and money that you’d spend making a 15 second car run 13s.
Chasing fame on social media, and how easy it is to finance 400hp has done this to car culture.
Supreme0verl0rd@reddit
Lol where those 2 seconds reside also have a huge effect in 0-60 and in 1/4 mile times. 15 to 13 second ET is a big jump. 10 to 8....? Astronomical.
AndroidMyAndroid@reddit
There's a difference between 2 seconds 0-60 and 2 seconds in the 1/4 lol
crshbndct@reddit
I mean 13s is pretty easy.
Get any k24 car, put an ebay gt3586 turbo kit and appropriate off the shelf tune on it, some big injectors, and with a decent launch you will do a 13 with about 350-400whp
stakoverflo@reddit
IMO whether it's a huge deal or not depends entirely on the context.
I went from a Fiesta ST to a Focus RS. The latter is about 2s quicker to 60 according to most journalists... But it doesn't feel any faster on the street.
But that's a very different conversation than shaving 2s off a quarter mile run for someone who regulars their local strip.
Educational_Age_1333@reddit
The other day in the Camaro sub I said that the power of the ZL1 is completely unusable on the street and I was told I didn't know how to drive the car. There's a lot of macho bullshit in the online car community.
kiIIinemsoftly@reddit
I was on a cruise with some locals recently and they were all praising the guy driving the brz because he could keep up with their ZL1s. We were on twisty backroads with no straights over 300ft, they never had a chance to use all that power they have.
ducky21@reddit
I was with an autocross club a few years back, and one of their primary funding sources was being a turnkey autocross provider for the local PCA chapter. We picked up cones, we brought lunch, we set up and put away the event. This funded basically everything the club wanted.
I worked one of those PCA events. There was nearly a perfect inverse relationship between how expensive the car was and how fast the driver was. Dudes in GT cars showed up in masking/painter's tape sarcophagi and were TERRIFIED of touching a cone. This lady in a 200k first gen Boxster S had FTD.
Most car communities are like that. I cherish groups of people I've found where the rich dudes beat the fuck out of their cars instead of saving them for the next guy.
Nefilim314@reddit
People love to remind me that my car depreciates faster than most every other Porsche. In fact, for the same money, I could have bought a 911 and it would still be worth quite a bit! Oh, and I shouldn’t have specced my car with red exterior and cream interior because the residuals are higher with black on black.
Fucking please. The fact that my car is rapidly losing value just incentivizes me to beat the absolute shit out of it and spec it how I want it. I’m going to trade it in in 6 years anyway once my boys are out of their car seats, so why do I care how much it’s going to be worth after 8 years of depreciation?
BanEvader2024@reddit
Same with my Teslas, I’m a multimillionaire that retired at 33, I don’t fucking care, they are literally toys not investments.
Equivalent-Money8202@reddit
nobody asked mate
BanEvader2024@reddit
What, the original comment was about caring about depreciation on a cars. I don’t care because I don’t consider cars to be stores of value, aside from my GT3 (maybe) but typically money does better in an S&P 500 index and most cars are just car shaped money pits.
litlron@reddit
It always annoys me that people on here think that someone who can afford a $150k car is going to give a shit about resale value.
michael-s-@reddit
i’m on a fast track (not many corners) in a 300 hp car and braking after the straight with the wall in sight is terrifying. speed is ~110 mph
rsta223@reddit
That sounds like a pretty tight track to me - at my two favorite local tracks (high plains raceway and Pueblo Motorsports Park), I'm doing about 125mph at the end of the longest straight in my STI or in my prior 295hp 987.1 Cayman S. For the fast point to be 110, your straights must be pretty short.
TookEverything@reddit
Big Willow was my introduction to the inverse relationship between speed and butthole tightness. Doing 120+ around a corner really took some time to get comfortable with.
ducky21@reddit
I knew I was not born to be a racecar driver when I did Palm Beach International Raceway (RIP) at a TNiA a few years ago in my FK8.
Fuck that wall. No fucking way. I don't give a shit about times, the perfect brake line, the perfect apex, no no no no. I'm not going to die into that wall if my brakes fail.
kunzinator@reddit
If you ain't getting it scratched and dirty then you aren't having fun.
closest-num-2-0@reddit
Tbh the brz should have smoked them in the twisty roads.
l5555l@reddit
A stock BRZ vs a ZL1? No way
closest-num-2-0@reddit
Ive driven both. The camaro definitely is much heavier for tighter handling. I owned a brz and i drive my best friends SS all the time.
l5555l@reddit
Of course it's heavier but that doesn't necessarily mean it's worse or slower in the corners. Especially with the tiny tires they put on the BRZ.
closest-num-2-0@reddit
Ill admit my brz wasn’t stock so maybe my comparison isn’t fair. I was on 10inch wides with 9 inch in the front, coil-overs and a short shifter but that was it.
The camaro only had an intake.
Roast_A_Botch@reddit
I think you're vastly underestimating the difference between a Camaro SS(any version) and the ZL1 lol. It's not like the BRZ where the highest trim is only marginally more performant than base model. The ZL1 will destroy most any BRZ that doesn't also have a Corvette engine swap.
closest-num-2-0@reddit
I thought we talking about winding roads with tight turns not track performance.
l5555l@reddit
Yeah I'm not sure about the newest BRZ but I know the original ones in like 2013 had the same tires that came on a Prius. They purposely put skinny tires on so you could slide them around ahah.
kiIIinemsoftly@reddit
On public roads, keeping up with is the same as being faster. You can't and don't pass on roads like that.
rsta223@reddit
If they were truly using their cars at 10/10, they'd still leave the BRZ behind, at least stock for stock. ZL1s have way more tire and come on a much sticker compound stock.
That having been said, you'd be an idiot to drive a ZL1 (or really anything else) at 10/10 on a public road.
l5555l@reddit
A ZL1 should still be able to blow by anything but the craziest BRZ on a twisty road. New Camaro suspension is insane and they have huge sticky tires.
kiIIinemsoftly@reddit
I think you vastly overestimate how fast you can go on public roads during the day. By the time the ZL1 is even being pushed into what it's designed for, you are finding traffic, are wildly beyond what is safe, or are getting the cops involved. All I meant was that it's not impressive driving by the BRZ that allowed him to keep up, it's the inherent limits of the territory keeping the ZL1 contained.
Dr_Cannibalism@reddit
Hell, I learnt that playing Forza 4 years ago. Had an FC3S RX7 and, IIRC, a Camaro modded out. Camaro was the next ranking up, and had I think something like double the HP. Ran the downhill secetion, where the second corner is a hairpin, on the Japanese mountain track on them both multiple times. Could never do a faster run in the Camaro.
The power meant I'd have to wait longer coming out of corners before I could apply the throttle, otherwise I'd break loose and destroy my time. The couple of straight-ish sections would make a bit of time up, but I'd also have to brake sooner because I was flying. Because the FC was lighter and had less HP, I could corner harder and power out sooner, so it was destroying the Camaro in the corners. I think the best I ever did was the exact same time in both cars, usually had the better time in the RX-7.
Someone more skilled might've been able to wrangle it better and be a little less hamstrung by it. But it's a pretty good example to me of how, driver skill being equal, there can be situations where having big power is not the solution for good performance, and can actually wind up being a detriment.
Suby06@reddit
that's like the British racing series that has minis racing with touring cars. The bigger cars would charge off down the straights but the minis would reel them back in through the turns
veils1de@reddit
lol yea it's dumb to say you kept up with X on some public twisty roads. not even comparable to track. even worse are the BMW dorks that drive right on your ass in the canyons to flex how "fast" they are
megasmash@reddit
It’s like that with the online motorcycle community too.
TheRoguePianist@reddit
Been doing research because I'm planning on getting a bike next year for mountain fun and track use. The amount of people that think anything less than 1000cc is 'slow' is bonkers.
I've got tons of mountains around me and the highway speed limit is 55-65 mph. Even a 600 would have me doing very illegal speeds in first gear and would do "0-Mach Jesus" before my tuned GTI hits 60.
The most bike I would want would be like a Gen3 R6, and tbh I'd probably never even hit the limit of even an R3 or Ninja 400 without going to a track.
dwmfives@reddit
I owned a Ninja 250, Ninja 400, and a Ninja 650 in the 20-teens, in that order.
The Ninja 650 was perfect. It had enough power to accelerate faster than I probably should, but not so much that I could kill myself by accident.
It was the Ninja 250 I almost died on, cut off in traffic.
TheRoguePianist@reddit
Ninja 650 is what I’m leaning towards atm. Super easy to find them for ~$4-5K in my area.
dwmfives@reddit
I loved that bike.
coyote_of_the_month@reddit
A literbike gives you "accelerate out of trouble" power when you're already at highway speeds.
Whether that means "accelerate into bigger trouble" is up to rider skill.
I've never had a liter supersport, but my S1000 XR had a super-detuned supersport-based motor in a big heavy sport touring chassis. Even being so much heavier and "only" having 150 HP, it felt like a time-machine effect when I'd open it up. I'd be "here" in one instant and "there" in the next. What happened in between? Who knows? Who cares!
megasmash@reddit
I’m biased because I own one, but an SV650 is really the Miata of bikes. They’re cheap enough ($2-3k), popular enough for tons of cheap aftermarket and spare parts, forgiving enough as a 1st or 2nd bike, fast enough to get you into trouble, and “meh” enough that you won’t have to worry about it getting stolen from city parking.
TheRoguePianist@reddit
SV650 and Ninja 650 are my top two options atm. Super easy to get both fairly cheap in my area.
hateriffic@reddit
Bikes and CCs... It's where the ponies come in. Are you at 5k rpm or ,12.
Plenty super twitchy 600s out there that will get away on you pretty easily if you're not careful
TheRoguePianist@reddit
Yeah, something like an R6 is different than a Ninja 650.
Those high revving I4s are no joke.
dwmfives@reddit
Ninja 650 is the perfect bike.
Western_Big5926@reddit
I tell the kids at my gym as per going up to a Litee bike: 120 is fast enough! That doesn’t seem to dim them….. but check your insurance does!
Western_Big5926@reddit
A Yamaha R6 is a great bike! Get Nj one used from the early 2010s for cheap
Mimical@reddit
Modern "mid range" bikes are incredibly good. And IMO the 600-700CC category bikes have figured out the balance between power and weight resulting in a supremely capable bike that is light enough to remain nimble and easy to control. Suzuki SV650, Aprilla's Tuareg 660, the MT-07, Triumphs Tiger 660. All are really really well reviewed.
Gwolf4@reddit
And it is funny that there are quite the numbers of 1000 cc bikes sold from people that never driven before something like that and at the first drive shat their soul out of their body.
Here I would be happy with a 125cc 150cc super sport bike alas gsxr/yamaha r15.
I will never go to a track wide enough to use a liter bike, the majority of the time I will be on the city, I prefer to be able to trash a small bike on the streets than going 120km/h on second in a liter bike.
Darth_Firebolt@reddit
You want a Honda 919.
vazura@reddit
Id say its even worse. People think a 600cc is a starter bike, which is faster than majority of cars on the road, just as fast as some newer sports cars. Its damn near useless unless you want to go 120mph everywhere.
Gwolf4@reddit
Bike people scares me, an R3 is shy a second slower than a c5 corvette, people will say 1s is a lot but lets be honest, how much is one second? it takes us a lot more to just press one letter on our keyboards to type these comments righ now.
boomerangchampion@reddit
Yeah it's bad. I get grief from people for riding an 800cc bike when I "should have got a litre" but...it does 0-60 in 3.1s. I honestly don't think I've ever seen a car on the road that can accelerate faster than that, unless the base Model S can do it? People have such a warped perception of speed.
litlron@reddit
And kids who parrot the opinions of others. When the ZL1 first came out a car journalist was testing one in Virginia. He was traveling at like 55mph, gave it a little bit of juice for a few seconds, then looked down and noticed he was slowing from 100mph. He of course got lit up by hidden cop and had to spend the weekend in jail. 650hp is definitely too much for the street.
muscle_car_fan34@reddit
I told myself that and used it as an excuse to buy a Camaro SS 1le. If I didn’t start tracking my SS 1le I would have sold it and got a zl1 (while taking a bath in depreciation) because for some of us we do NEED more power. When I drive my SS 1le it feels underpowered on the street.
In my case I went from an SS to an SS 1le so I was already used to 460hp. Since I’m used to it it doesn’t really feel fast to me in a straight line anymore.
Car feels amazing on a roadcourse though so I’m glad I kept it.
Educational_Age_1333@reddit
I get what you mean I feel like I have a little bit of the opposite feelings when driving my ZL1 because it kind of gets annoying and frustrating to use so little of what's available.
There's two great tragedies in life one's not getting what you want in the other is getting it.
muscle_car_fan34@reddit
I think I understand what you’re feeling. Sometimes I feel 100 mph comes up too fast in my ss 1le. For me though I just want to be pushed back in my seat a little harder than what I currently feel.
Another tragedy I think is Chevy canceling the 6th generation z28. An SS 1le with 75-100 more hp imho would have been the perfect car
CaptainOwnage@reddit
What's the definition of completely unusable? I'd imagine its subjective.
I have a C5 Corvette that is modified, it would outrun a stock 6th gen Camaro ZL1 in a straight line pretty easily. I wouldn't call its level of power unusable on the street but the fun does end very quickly because you hit highly illegal speeds fast. You also have to be mindful that you're very traction limited and it is pretty damn easy to just boil the tires off at any speed under 60 mph.
I'd like the reliability of a stock ZL1 though lol.
Educational_Age_1333@reddit
Maybe my verbiage is not correct but my point is you can't use the car to a percentage of its potential on public roads regardless of driver capability.
I'm sure a professional driver would get more out of it than a normal person but for all intents and purposes you're not going to quadruple the speed limit getting groceries.
CaptainOwnage@reddit
That's a fair point, and true. It really is nonsensical when you think about it to own a vehicle capable of such acceleration and handling when you drive it 99.99% of the time on the street.
KyledKat@reddit
I used to be in the Camaro5/Camaro6 crowd back in ye olden days of my car history. Absolutely tons of a toxic behavior in that community, particularly around owning a V8 version of the car. It's either a pissing match to be part of the broader in-group, a bigger pissing match to post the highest horsepower number, or the biggest pissing match spending the value of the car in mods.
Educational_Age_1333@reddit
My experience has been very similar Kyle. Serious dick measuring contests over there, it's sad.
lellololes@reddit
That's hilarious.
I mean, you can merge on to the highway or give it a quick 2 second blast, but you can't safely let anything in that category sing on a public road.
Educational_Age_1333@reddit
Exactly my point It has nothing to do with skill. The car can't be driven to 25% of its capabilities on public roads safely but everyone online wants to act like they could handle it differently it's stupid.
lellololes@reddit
I consider myself a competent driver but don't have racing experience. I understand the theory but lack practical experience.
I drove a ~250hp car on the nurburgring and I can confidently say that that was more power than I needed or could really take advantage of. But it was fun!
Left unsupervised, those jackasses would undoubtedly crash if they were trying to push their 550hp monster on a track like that.
vhalember@reddit
Yup. The same is true for the RWD Hellcats. (and GT500)
The 700+ HP is utterly worthless from a dig on the streets unless your running deflated DR's (18-20 psi is recommended) everywhere.
Darth_Firebolt@reddit
Both of these statements can be true.
DETECTOR_AUTOMATRON@reddit
i mean… do you know how to drive the car? i’ve never driven a ZL1, so i don’t.
Educational_Age_1333@reddit
I've owned and driven mine for 2 years, I'm not a professional driver but the idea that there's any kind of skill involved in being able to press the pedal to the ground to use all of the car's power is just asinine.
DETECTOR_AUTOMATRON@reddit
ah fair enough
IsPooping@reddit
I drove a 750+ up mustang a few weeks ago and it was just stupid for around town. Fun on the track, absolutely useless on the street
mpbo1993@reddit
You are in a little bubble probably. There are plenty of enthusiasts that enjoy less powerful cars. In fact in most track days I go most cars are in the 300-450 range, maybe it’s more of a US car culture with straight like performance (I’m in Europe). Anything above 600 is pretty useless at the track, even a GT3 RS is at 500ish, you need tons of aero and grip if you have more power. I have an M2 with 450, but often enjoy a lot more 250-350hp cars (S2000, MX5, E36 M3, 964, E30 M3), loads of people also enjoy those cars more. It’s boring cars that are too powerful at the mountain passes, for example, it’s impossible to put power down in +600hp rwd car with road tires in 2nd gear, so you end up driving it at 50% most of the time (in a lower and boring rpm). An E30 M3 at 110% is way more fun than a McLaten at 60%. Only places that a lot of power is fun is at the autobahn where +700hp cones useful above 200kph and at a drag strip.
TheSpitRoaster@reddit
Loud, ignorant minorities love to hyperfocus in singular stats. JDM = good, rest bad. 1000 HP good, everything below is bad (meanwhile they drive a 65 hp econobox).
The internet does this. It's almost never a representation of what people actually think - just a very specific subset of people who love to share their opinion, often loudly and offensively, online. It reminds me of the 2000s PC nerd culture, where higher and higher gigahertz were the only thing they cared about - and then they switched to very specific benchmarks, which is a slightly better, yet also flawed method of testing.
kunzinator@reddit
If its not overclocked to twice the clock speed it was born with and cooled by dry ice you may as well give it to grandma so she can check her email.
Roast_A_Botch@reddit
Lol, newb using CO2 and not R170 ethane.
TheSpitRoaster@reddit
Ahh, good memories.
RickyBobby96@reddit
Supra
xnd714@reddit
Car culture was fine when we were all using forums. Tiktok/Instagram brought all the influencers which really ruined it. It's all about clout chasing now.
KMFDM781@reddit
Forums were really the golden age of Internet car culture. We had every issue or parts review archived and searchable. A few I was on had diy and knowledge base articles neatly indexed to basically read and learn everything you need to know about common issues and fixes and mods. We had forum meetups and cookouts and karting events and stuff. A lot of times these people became lifelong friends and like family. Shout-out to Honda-tech, the GranTurismo.com forums, VWVortex, turbo-mopar.com, turbododge.com
Exotic_Pollution8346@reddit
makes me cringe when some dudes get a new car and immediately dump insane power mods into it, like bro try out the car stock first
MustangCoyote@reddit
Yeah, that's more accurate. I should've said mainstream internet.
KMFDM781@reddit
Pretty much sums up why I don't give a shit about power or trying to impress anyone else or go to 90% of car meets.
TP_Crisis_2020@reddit
It's been that way since the old school forum days.
AutistWeaponized@reddit
Thats why I ended up commenting to getting the FL5 Type R, such a great switch back to a manual transmission that focuses on handling. Couldn’t care less that it isn’t the fast thing in a straight line.
bl0odredsandman@reddit
It ruined it in other ways too. All I ever hear nowadays is Hellcat this, Hellcat that, Demon this, Demon that, thinking they are top tier cars. They are still ugly ass Dodge cars that are 4500lb boats that just have horsepower. I love the engines, hate the cars and culture surrounding them.
cooltonk@reddit
Maybe people like it because it is heavy and large? Especially when even muscle cars are getting lighter and smaller to compete eu cars and losing their character in the process. Mustangs and camaros keeps getting lighter and smaller losing their muscle car character in the process.
Everyone is just so bogged down on who can be the most efficient, perfectly and precisely engineered, perfect weight distribution, traction control, aerodynamic, and lightest.
I like simple stuff. Stupid oversized engine crammed into a chasis that weighs as much as an elephant with aerodynamic of a barn door and it cant put its power down to save its life. It is goofy and beautiful thats why i own a widebody redeye. It is far from a perfect car but by far the funnest one i ever got to drive.
muscle_car_fan34@reddit
Most muscle cars have gotten bigger and bigger not lighter. The Camaro is the only one that got lighter for its 6th generation but that was after a giant weight gain from 4th to 5th generation.
MustangCoyote@reddit
Yeah. The Mustang Cobra was doin' that shit in '03. And the GT500 had 662 hp two years before the hellcat and was faster because it weighed less.
ShadowGLI@reddit
Which is funny because some of the worlds best racers (f1, touring cars, etc) drive civic si and gti’s as daily drivers.
stoopidrotary@reddit
Also brown wagon.
ConfusedTapeworm@reddit
It's always been like this. I remember listening to people say the same kinds of crap 20+ years ago. I have been in "bro that car is so slow it can only do 280kmh" discussions before internet was a thing. 280kmh is not particularly slow now, it sure as shit was not slow back then.
imaginaryhippo888@reddit
And it's said over and over by dudes driving their mom's accord.
veils1de@reddit
people on the internet like to flex. they think if they sound like they have high standards for a "good" car they will sound cool. some fanbases are more basic than others. what bothers me isn't their opinion, it's that they will never recognize their own ignorance and stupidity lol
FappinPlatypus@reddit
You forgot it has to be a gated manual and the specific B-965-G chassis type otherwise it’s a piece of shit that’ll die in a week
bstyledevi@reddit
You also missed "brown exterior" and "wagon."
MustangCoyote@reddit
Yeah, I forgot the toyota reliability circlejerk too. Nuanced discussions are extinct.
MicBarry21@reddit
*Brown manual diesel rotary 2 door AWD wagon
totallynotstefan@reddit
Internet car culture isn't real. Twitter isn't real. Social media isn't real.
Every year I have a car show at my business that brings about 150-200 cars. The ones most ogled over are either old slow 911's or clean old M Coupes with 240hp s52s.
There are GT3s, late Lamborghinis and Ferraris, and new Vettes that folks spend 5 seconds with, but there are always crowds around the old slow cars.
jadedaid@reddit
Or it’s because 300hp cars have become more affordable and thus no longer so special. 300 is the new 200. Fairly quick, but not special.
gainzsti@reddit
Its because they cant own superbike becausr they are young and stupid.
After riding 145mph trapping bike on the daily you find a different enjoyment in cars. My miata is stock engine/exhaust and it is so fun like that.
Car guy that measure they peen with HP and 1/4 mile are just insecure
IlIlIlIlIl241l23lIlI@reddit
How has it "ruined car culture" though? Online sucks. Everything sucks online. But in the real world, nothing is "ruined". Car culture is thriving. Just find the good spots/groups.
MustangCoyote@reddit
It's hard to find stuff around me. A lot of meets are just regular traffic meets anymore A lot of meets were shut down due to the police arriving, or store owners telling everyone to get lost because some douche rev bangs his straight piped versa and does pulls in a private parking lot. Drunk or drugged up idiots keyed a dudes $70,000 bmw. I mean, just look at takeovers. Those wouldn't happen without tiktok.
Anything good has to be organized well in advance, or an official event. Often invite only. Gone are the days of just rollin up to the meet and seeing cool builds and chatting.
IlIlIlIlIl241l23lIlI@reddit
I rarely attend these events anymore but that kind of thing happened in the 90s and 2000s. Idiots haven't appeared with Tiktok. They have always been there... I see stuff online, but haven't experienced this ins real life. Meets are still great in my area.
Extra-Presence3196@reddit
So true.
michal_hanu_la@reddit
That very much depends on what the 300hp is pushing.
My fun car has just a little bit over 300hp (nominally, I haven't measured it), but, being light, it feels fast.
My sensible car has one and half the power, but twice the mass and it feels... well, sensible.
(I know crazy people who put a 300hp engine in a gyroplane with MTOW of 560kg, it was too scary to fly.)
johnnyutah1103@reddit
Honestly 300 hp for anything other than an suv is plenty. My old lexus gs (which weighs almost 2 tons) gets to 60 in 5.4s with just under 300hp.
aquatone61@reddit
My 3200lb GTI has like 230 HP and it feels plenty fast up until you get a good ways over the speed limit :). It does have more torque than HP by a good bit so that helps with the “quick” feeling of the car.
sohcgt96@reddit
Also GTI, the powerband is very nice but just as importantly (At least for mine with a DSG) it has very short gearing. That makes a really underrated difference in the overall driving experience of a vehicle. Shorter gears make the car way lighter on its feet. I really despise long, tall gearing.
Deathcon-H@reddit
I absolutely hate hate hate hate tall gearing. It ruins cars. It really ruins cars. And its all the EPA hounding companies for a couple mpgs because the autos can do tricks to pass the same tests.
aquatone61@reddit
3rd will get you to about 90 and fourth will take to the limiter so 5th and 6th are bonus gears . The MK7 is geared taller than the MK6 I had. Highway cruising is definitely better in the MK7.
Deathcon-H@reddit
Mk6 manual gearing was nearly identical to the 6 speed dsg. Thats one of the last cars the epa wasnt killing stick shift
Recitinggg@reddit
In the older 6-speed DSG 150mph is ~4500rpm…don’t ask how I know
Can’t imagine what the top end of the 7 speed dsg is
icefisher225@reddit
Holy cow. My DSG alltrack tops out at 85 in 3rd, 115 in 4th. 5th is like 140 IIRC and I haven’t ever hit the top of 6th. My limiter is disabled fyi
aquatone61@reddit
I’m not tuned so still have the limiter at 124(or 121 I can’t remember) but I don’t need it to go any faster because I probably would go faster than I already do. My MK6 DSG GTI would be turning almost 3k at 70 but the MK7 is right about 2k if I remember. 3k RPM in 6th is 90mph with the 6 speed DSG.
icefisher225@reddit
Ah, I don’t have a speed issue. I’ve taken my car over 100 like 5-6 times in four years.
I’m at 2500 at 70mph in 6th. 3k is like 82. The alltrack’s gearing is SHORT.
TheTightEnd@reddit
The extremely fast shifts of the DSG also make the car quicker and feel quicker. I have noticed this on my Arteon.
KMFDM781@reddit
My mk8 with around 330 whp and 360 lb/ft wheel torque feels like a rocket with the dsg. That trans is a cheat code.
KingBowser24@reddit
My CC is like that. It's only rated at 200hp but it feels a heck of alot quicker with the way the DSG shifts.
TheTightEnd@reddit
I test drove the CC before I bought my Regal, and I agree it felt like more than 200hp, but not enough to compete with nearly 260hp and 295 tq.
chase32@reddit
Makes a big difference. My Forester XT is a little bit faster than my old STi from a launch just because the CVT keeps you in the perfect powerband vs the shifting up the manual.
That's about the only things its better at though besides hauling the dogs.
AFrozen_1@reddit
Same in my A3. The torque makes it feel really punchy too.
specialcommenter@reddit
A lot of 90s automatic cars would feel amazing with short gearing and a few more speeds.
sohcgt96@reddit
Oh for sure. Even my Grand Prix GXP that I used to have would have been a whole different car with a 6 speed auto and better final drive ratio, but it was just a GM Parts bin car and I don't think they had a 6 speed up to the task at the time.
aheartworthbreaking@reddit
Not even just that, I’ve driven an R/T Charger without the Road and Track package as well as mine that does have it, and even though they weigh the same (and have the same engine), my car has much lighter steering and pedals (due to the shorter gearing and faster steering rack) that I hated the other car that was the same in every single way.
Could I get a SRT 392 or Hellcat? Sure. But if I set my own wants aside for a second, I own two cars that make near 400 hp at 22. I think 5 sec 0-60 is more than fast enough at my age for when I need to pass the moron going 20 on the on ramp. When am I going to use the full power of a Hellcat anyway? Wanting a Hellcat isn’t the same as rationalizing one.
TheCrudMan@reddit
My manual GTI has pretty tall gearing but the power band is so wide I think it actually works well that way. If I want to gun it in second the thing is quick and goes for awhile. Really useful for autocross too.
Electronic_Trade_721@reddit
A GTI weighs 3200lbs? What a world we live in.
aquatone61@reddit
Probably more like 3450 with my fat butt in it but yeah the MK7 is about 3200 lbs. I’m totally fine with that because it is a very safe car.
MKTMstr@reddit
Mk6 GTI owner here. At about the same weight with only a little bit more horsepower and torque (~250whp, ~300lb/ft), it feels like a rocket ship going from first through third gears. And, even though it definitely does drop off once you get at about the speed limit, like you said in your other comment, it's well worth the trade-off for the safety and drivability
Knotical_MK6@reddit
Meanwhile I'm on a K04 and I think it feels slow
Piecing together bits to go big turbo now
MKTMstr@reddit
The pursuit of high horsepower is always such a game. Fortunately all of my daily drivers have had a slow car driven fast mentality.
NowYuoSee123@reddit
Depends on the transmission, you save about little over 100lbs with the MT over the DSG
bigloser42@reddit
it's hard to find a car below 3k lbs anymore. There is the Miata, Mini(barely) and a handful of other sub-compacts. Anything the size of a Civic or up is over 3k lbs, and most full-sized sedans are pushing 4k lbs.
HauntingObligation@reddit
The 86 twins are ~2850lbs and I'm pretty sure a civic si comes in around 2950.
But yeah, it's certainly exclusive to the driver oriented stuff. Even "lightweight" modern Porsches are generally clocking in above 3200lbs by a good margin. Nobody makes small cheap cars any more.
Spookybear_@reddit
What, is this an American thing? A new Renault megane can easily get below 3000lbs or 1360kg. Lowest curb for the new megane is 1200kg?
bigloser42@reddit
Not really, there are outliers that can limbo under 3000lbs, but they are just that, outliers. Part of it is that really tiny engines aren't a thing in the US. You will have to look pretty hard to find a 1.0L engine. Also, the car you are pointing out would be a sub-compact in the US, of which there are a few that are under 3000lbs. Everything else is by and large over 3000lbs. Even a Cayman is over 3000lbs now, that that is definitely a European car.
Suspicious_Bird_9115@reddit
Sad
jasonfromearth1981@reddit
Shit the Taycan eclipses 5k lbs! That's a heavy girl.
SSLByron@reddit
It's the same world we've been living in for nearly two decades. Even the MkIV VR6 was over 3,000 pounds.
FireStorm005@reddit
My MK4 TDI was 3100 with a full tank. VW's kept it pretty close to that for over 2 decades, and that's pretty good.
dreadnought_81@reddit
The marketing material for the mk7 GTI included a few mentions of how they made it lighter than the outgoing mk6. Not a bad effort imo.
I think it's a reasonable weight for the car. Sure, it's not a featherweight, but it's not especially heavy either. It's lighter than a Hyundai i30 N in similar specification (wrt year and equipment) for example.
Electronic_Trade_721@reddit
True, twenty years ago is about when cars stopped being interesting to me anyways.
Gigahurt77@reddit
Yep. I have a mkv and an Altima. My Alitima weighs the same because it has an aluminum frame. I’m a poet and didn’t know it.
enaK66@reddit
Yeah unfortunately pretty much everything but a mini and a miata weighs at least 3000 lbs. My old ass dinky little truck weighs 3000 lbs. My 2004 corvette weighed over 3000 lbs. My 1985 corvette weighs over 3000 lbs. Porsche Boxsters weigh 3000 lbs. It's like, the number.
aquatone61@reddit
Outside of the crazy expensive GT models with the “lightweight” package the only way to get under 3k in a modern Porsche is a non S 987 Cayman with the 5 speed and 17 inch wheels. Adding the optional 6-speed and/or bigger wheels pushes you over 3k lbs.
ahorrribledrummer@reddit
GTI has been 3000lbs+ for decades. My VR6 mk4 was a portly little car.
uchigaytana@reddit
Yup, my Mk1 TT sits at just about 3k lbs, and still feels pretty quick with the ~200hp it typically makes.
ahorrribledrummer@reddit
Yep still a fun platform. I still miss the sound that car made and I haven't owned it for 15 years almost.
cilantno@reddit
They’ve weighed that much or more since 2006
CalmAspectEast@reddit
Very similar numbers to my Fiesta ST on e30. I'm not winning too many drag races but it's a super fun car and definitely punches above it's weight at autocross events and on track. It's plenty for a daily.
aquatone61@reddit
When a 3.5 Ecoboost F150 is faster 0-60 than a stick shift GTI (MK7 to corresponding F150) speed and fun are relative :). A MK7 DSG GTI is almost exactly as fast 0-60 as the same F150, I’ve almost been had by one from a light, surprised the shit out of me.
sc4366@reddit
How can it have more torque than HP? These are totally different measurements... It's like saying its efficiency is higher than its acceleration
aquatone61@reddit
Quite easily….. In its current configuration I t has about 40-45 more ft-lbs of torque than it does HP. Lots of gasoline are engines are like this.
stillpiercer_@reddit
Wholeheartedly agree. My GTI is stock, DSG, and while I do really like the idea of Stage 1 tunes, a nice day on good tires does remind me that you really do not need much more power than what I’ve got to have a really good time. I can go from zero to prison very quickly.
Elitists might disagree, but there’s so much more to a good drive than just pure power. A stock GTI isn’t slow, and it’s not a rocketship either. But it is a good ass time.
hoemax@reddit
as a guy who waited to get his mk6 to stage 1.. it's night and day. biggest smiles after I flashed and I never did any other mods. it did get more annoying tho with wheel spin, but otherwise, before you die I think you should still try it. I get it keep it stock, but try someone else's maybe
stillpiercer_@reddit
The only reason I haven’t is because I don’t want to do it without the DSG tune, and $1000 for silly power just hasn’t settled right with me yet. I wouldn’t say I’m concerned about reliability considering how many people do it (and also how many people do MORE than stage 1), but it is a consideration. I also don’t love the idea of 10,000 mile spark plug intervals.
hoemax@reddit
yeah the DSG tune is a necessity. but there are discounts every so often from tuners so you could watch out for them. I think 10k miles spark plugs and overall maintenance intervals are overblown with Stage 1. unless you're tracking it every day and redlining on cold start, the standard intervals are fine. at least close to standard if anything
stillpiercer_@reddit
I am pretty set on APR if/when I pull the trigger. Their prices really only seem to vary by about 10% on a good day.
Maintenance isn’t really something I take chances on, at least the spark plugs are pretty inexpensive. There have been plenty of victims of broken plugs on MK7 GTIs and Rs in tuned applications.
hoemax@reddit
definitely
JayBee58484@reddit
A mix of both is good imo, ZL1 sits at a little over 850whp but it's by far the most fun car I've ever driven personally, I've never agreed with this sentiment because my first was manual was my BRZ and I absolutely hated it in stock form. Whatever makes you happy is all that matters but there is not a one size fits all approach to cars.
dopadelic@reddit
Hmmm surprised the GTI weighs that much. My Golf Sportwagen 4Motion weighs 3300lbs. They're so easily tunable. I have mine at 315hp with a simple bolt on turbo+downpipe+intake.
Sprinklypoo@reddit
I'm in the same general ballpark, and have no issues with power / fun. I know it's not the fastest, but I'm enjoying corners and can pop a 4 wheel slide if I'm feeling froggy. I'm not worried about getting to the dentist 2 minutes faster, I just want to enjoy the trip.
Mshaw1103@reddit
My rx8 has 231 hp (crank, a decade or two ago, with good compression. I’m probably under 150 wheel😂) but only 158 ft lbs of torque (crank… etc etc) I’m slow af but if I can ring out a few gears I’m flying, just takes me a lil bit. I think I’m also 3200 lbs. but I just thought it was interesting, I’m like the complete opposite of your GTI lol. I’m not quick but I am fast
poo_is_hilarious@reddit
I've got a Jaguar XF 3 litre diesel with only 240bhp, but has 369ftlb of torque and that feels like plenty. They remap to 320bhp and 425ftlb but I honestly can't imagine why you would want to!
Personal-Safe3560@reddit
Laughs in 245hp and 350lbs of torque in a 8800lbs truck. The thing will pull the moon but is a damn DOG with speed
OB1182@reddit
I have a 3700lb station wagon with 250hp and 380nm and it's plenty fast to be honest. There's not many places around me where i can use all that power unless i'm towing something.
B5_S4@reddit
4000lbs and 255hp in my wagon. Currently shopping for something with over 400hp for my next daily. 255 isn't enough to get up to highway speeds on the 100 ft long on ramps we have. And 400 helps get around the idiots who speed up when you try to pass them because they're going 15 under in the left lane.
Keellas_Ahullford@reddit
I’ve tuned mine to be like 280 wheel and like 340 torque and honestly even then the wheels can’t keep up with the power a lot of the time
COKEWHITESOLES@reddit
This is my problem with my Passat GT, too much torque can’t even do a stand still launch without wheel spin. And that’s at 290 hp.
I_like_cake_7@reddit
Yup, very much this. 300 hp feels quite fast to me in a small sports car or even a sedan.
300 hp in a large SUV or pickup can feel a bit anemic. My dad had a 2007 Ford Expedition EL with the infamous 5.4 Triton that put out 300 hp. It got around just fine, but 300 hp really wasn’t all much for a 6,000 lb SUV. It was not fast.
Raaf325@reddit
This.. it depends on what it needs to haul around. For daily driving enough torque is more important
god_dammit_dax@reddit
Correct. I've got an old Chevy 1500HD with the V8 that's rated at 300HP. The 0-60 time on that thing is "Eventually".
AdvantagePast2484@reddit
Tbh even in 4200lb SUV it's fine, city driving fast cars is really pointless anyway.
rsta223@reddit
Eh, my wife's RAV4 Prime still feels pretty quick with 302hp pushing 4300lb.
It's certainly not as fast as the same hp pushing more than a thousand pounds less in my STI or my former Cayman S, but it definitely feels a step up from just "sensible".
jew_biscuits@reddit
I always felt that my old Charger r/T was a pretty good balance. Big engine, big car, 375 HP, around 5 seconds 0-60.
Shopping for a new car now and some of the B58 powered BMWs (M340, x3 M40) are almost a second faster but the speed has this really liquid feel to it, like you hit the gas at 40 mph and all of a sudden you're at 85. Fast, but without the visceral drama of a big rumbly V8 in a big car.
Drando_HS@reddit
390p actually. Not bullshitting here - dynos have proved this and the exact same engine was rated 390hp in the Ram lineup.
When the 5.7 was last refreshed in 2009, the engine for the SRT package was the 420hp 6.2L Hemi. Because of that the 5.7L was purposefully underrated for the Charger/Challenger to keep those sweet sweet $10k SRT package sales. Didn't underrate them for the Rams because the 6.2L Hemi was never offered in them.
jew_biscuits@reddit
Did not know this!
TookEverything@reddit
The drama is in the fact that the ones with an M differential will try to put you into a wall if you leave it on, lol.
JayBee58484@reddit
No doubt lol
f5alcon@reddit
b58 is just so smooth with the power delivery
tocruise@reddit
Yeah I have a Mazda CX-9 (it's a 7 seater SUV, for anyone that doesn't know) and it pushes 300hp. It does 0-60 in 12 seconds lol.
polaris6933@reddit
Damn, I never thought I'd see someone with a Trabant flair on here. Can I see some pics?
michal_hanu_la@reddit
Sorry, it's not a real Trabant --- it's a silly joke (after all, Trabant was not made in 1999).
Here it is in its natural habitat: https://imgur.com/a/J9HUq2W
Aizpunr@reddit
I have 135 in a 360 lb package and its fast as hell xD
Tearpusher@reddit
My Polestar is heavy (4700 lbs) but has 546 lbs of torque. It feels fast for its weight (which is just so goddamned much) but it’s probably because I’m used to econoboxes. And the EV instant power delivery thing.
P/W of like .096 but I have no real idea if that’s good or not. People obsessed with much more than this are either professionals or, hopefully, driving safe. That’s a lot of power.
ChrisJimmy255@reddit
An alpine a110r does a 0 to 60 in 3.9 sec with 300 hp. Its all about weight tbh.
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
I suppose, but I mean more so people talk about cars like an S2000 or Pontiac Solstice or FRS/BRZ being slow even if it's set up to push 300hp. I'm aware on some real heavy and soft-chassis BMW with a V8 it's not big, but on an I4 or I6 coupe 2-seater or 2+2 it's a decent level of ability.
Ok-Improvement-3670@reddit
It’s a combination of small naturally aspirated engines lacking torque output and gearing.
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
I suppose, though on the Solstice GXP at least it had a pretty good K04 to back it up. Low lag on that makes it pretty good once you're really adding throttle.
Ok-Improvement-3670@reddit
You’re right. The turbo charged ones had quite a bit more torque available.
coffeebribesaccepted@reddit
The first gen frs/brz/86 only has 200hp though, definitely a bit slow.
teckers@reddit
It's just comparative. 30 years ago you could buy a new ferrari or a BMW M5 car with just over 300bhp. That wasn't slow at the time so why is it now? Go back to the 1950s and little sports cars had well under 100bhp, they were fun and popular and not slow at the time.
MrSanti@reddit
My fun vehicle is only 120bhp... But under 200kg wet lol. Kind of cheating though as only has half the wheels.
Sylvan_Sam@reddit
Yeah. The fastest vehicle I've ever owned only had 51hp but it only weighed 339lb.
MrSanti@reddit
BMW X5?
michal_hanu_la@reddit
Grump grump grump slow grump curves grump mountain passes grump organ donation grump...
SpecialistPathfinder@reddit
I know a guy who said the Lotus Elise was the best car they ever drove. They are like 218hp and the car weights like 1500lbs. Mid engine kept it balanced.
DuManchu@reddit
Yeah, my 375HP, 5800 lb Land Rover has what I'd call adequate power, but nothing anyone would consider fast by any stretch of the imagination. My GTI would absolutely mop the floor with it despite only having \~200HP.
MentallyLatent@reddit
Turbo FRS (2900 lbs ish) with 300hp is kind of a riot. Ton of fun
LightAndShape@reddit
I remember I had a big Genesis sedan and 450hp felt.. adequate lol. Such a boat. Then my buddies civic hatch with 400hp feels dangerous fast
Mojave_Idiot@reddit
My personal break points is 10, in generally anything with 10 pounds per horsepower or so is pretty fast.
There’s variables even within that though. My Polestar is beyond 10 pounds per horsepower but the AWD makes a difference. My trucks like 18 pounds per horsepower but it’s putting 1050 tq through a 10 speed.
cheezus_crisco@reddit
Yeah, 10lb/hp is my fun threshold too. First time I drove a car that was 10:1 (late C4 Corvette) it changed my perspective. I've driven faster and slower, but 10:1 is where it starts to get fun
balthisar@reddit
My car weighs nearly 5000 pounds. It needs every bit of its 480hp to make its 3.4 second 0-to-60 time. It's not light by any means, but it's still fun.
Practical-Courage812@reddit
This is a really good point. Like my Bronco has over 300 hp and 325 tq and while it has enough "get up and go" to pass cars and daily drive, it isn't anything exciting nor is it designed to be. The WRX i had had less power but was fun (Same with my Focus ST).
max_power1000@reddit
I mean it's all perspective.
I had an RSX-S as my first 'grown-up car' that had 200hp at 2800lbs. I felt like that was plenty quick, P/W of .071, essentially the same as a 1st gen 86/BRZ
Then I owned an S2000, so 240hp at 2800lbs. P/W of .085, but no torque to speak of.
Now I'm in my genesis with 311hp at 4000lbs, P/W of .077
If .071 was adequately quick, why wouldn't .077 be? I think the Genesis has plenty of zip when I want to get on it, even if tossing 2 tons around in the corners seems like too much inertia for me.
I think it's more a factor of car guys chasing numbers and the pony cars having crazy high HP now comparatively. You can still get in plenty of trouble with the power to weight ratio that sport compacts provide. The frame of reference for people in the community has just shifted, but most normal people think 300hp still has plenty of zip in anything that's not an SUV.
accountnameredacted@reddit
I definitely feel the weight in my Genesis. But I also know it’s more a of a cruiser than anything. Still fun to occasionally open up the 420hp lol
Snoopj6001@reddit
Exactly, sometimes 300hp isnt alot. But in a Lotus Elise or a Civic, its a decent amount of power.
Gubbtratt1@reddit
What exactly is a trabant gt?
michal_hanu_la@reddit
Well, it's made of plastic (like a Trabant), but it is a bit nicer and faster, hence GT. TVR Chimaera 500.
coffeebribesaccepted@reddit
The trabant or the prius has 450hp?
michal_hanu_la@reddit
The Trabant GT is really a TVR Chimaera 500.
The Prius De Luxe is a Lexus LS600h L.
I'm sure you see how those are roughly the same things...
NuclearWasteland@reddit
I'm not sure what the elderly 305 in my 86 camaro has left for horsepower but in that chassis with a 5 speed and not much bogging it down but it's own shadow it feels like ample power at all of like, I dunno 100hp or something by now? I mean, it's not great by any measure by today's standards.
It feels like it wants to go faster than the suspension and handling will allow it to control and is fun and engaging to drive imo.
It really is a combination of things, and these days the horsepower rating is meaningless to me as a measure without considering the overall vehicle combination.
CoPart is littered with balled up over powered but otherwise ill equipped "performance" cars.
SuperSathanas@reddit
It's also how it's being pushed.
I have a 2016 Altima S with a CVT that hasn't shit the bed yet, rated at 182 HP, 180 ft/lb torque, about 3200 lbs curb weight. I also have a 2018 Dodge Journey Crossroad, 6 speed auto, 3.6 liter V6, rated at 283 HP and 206 ft/lb torque, about 4300 lbs curb weight.
Neither are fast or powerful for what their class, of course, but if you put the two against each other, the Altima will win every time. Even if there is a better HP to weight ratio with the Journey, I'm pretty sure it all comes down to the CVT here, because it's able to keep a pretty consistent gear ratio up to a certain speed, so you can just go WOT, it'll try to keep the engine revving around 5k by adjusting the CVT as speed increases, and so you're more consistently nearing max torque and HP without getting too close to the red line.
UltimaRS800@reddit
300hp small block in a 980kg Ultima GTR would be fucking gas bro.
03Void@reddit
Exactly. 300hp in a 1000kg Miata is borderline insane.
300hp in a 2500kg SUV is meh.
Also depends how the engine develop its power. If it has a lot of torque at low revs, 300hp will feel a lot more than an engine with all of its power in a very high and narrow power band for daily driving.
asenz@reddit
it depends on the gear box.
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WabbitCZEN@reddit
People who still care about 0-60 over 40-80 confuse me. How often are you going to be flooring it from a dead stop vs how often are you going to be going from driving through towns and residential areas to highway speeds?
Odd-Refrigerator-425@reddit
As a city dweller 0-60 is irrelevant, but I'd say 0-40 comes up every red light lol.
HedonisticFrog@reddit
On city streets you don't even need much acceleration. Most people drive slowly anyways. My 1984 Mercedes 300SD goes 0-60 in 14.5 seconds and still accelerates faster than most people drive.
Not_Daijoubu@reddit
"Most people drive slowly anyways."
Tell that to all the street-racer moms out there mashing the pedal in their Dodge Durangos and Hyundai Santa Fes.
TheAlphaCarb0n@reddit
You mean the ones who absolutely gun it to 5 over, merge in front of you and then do the limit? My favourite people.
RaccTheClap@reddit
I'm guilty of cutting those people off after they do that to me.
amiga1@reddit
that's the same territory as city cars anyway.
Electric cars are probably going to mess that up though. I almost lost in a drag race with a Nissan Leaf.
HedonisticFrog@reddit
I still drive faster than most Teslas in my 300SD.
Looptydude@reddit
Exactly this. Doesn't matter if my car can do 0-60 in 5 seconds if I still get stuck behind a Nissan Rogue doing 45 on the on ramp.
edinburghiloveyou44@reddit
I think you meant to say eventually.
Odd-Refrigerator-425@reddit
🤷♂️ It's not about being faster than other drivers and "beating traffic", it's about the fun of revving it out.
TheAlphaCarb0n@reddit
For me it's about trying to keep up with sports cars off the line so that they'll give it gas and I can get some nice exhaust...
crunchybaguette@reddit
0-whatever is irrelevant because no one reasonable is going to abuse their clutch or tires to get those numbers on a regular basis. 5-40 or 5-60 with a rolling start is much more sensible to get an understanding of speed while a description of shift quality/engagement can tell you how soon you can drop the hammer.
F1T_13@reddit
Where I am. Most roads are 30 Max. 40 will earn you a ticket, except on some B roads or overpasses.
Odd-Refrigerator-425@reddit
Yea I mean, city limit has a speed limit of 30 but no one adheres to it and cops sure as shit don't enforce anything.
I'm not saying I do 40 down residential areas of the city, but like the larger 4 lane main arteries where there's no foot traffic? Sure, be smart and safe but have a little fun with first and some of second gear.
Dirty_Dragons@reddit
Yup, if I manage to be first in line at the red light I get to have my little fun with 0-40 and blow every other car away. If I'm lucky the next light is green.
Snoo93079@reddit
Driving in Chicago at least low speed acceleration is a total non issue in pretty much any car. The only time performance really shines is merging onto the interstate or maybe the occasional passing situation.
Bourbon_Buckeye@reddit
You floor it every red light on the way to work?
Real world performance is overtaking and on-ramp acceleration.
IsPooping@reddit
If I'm first in line and I'm in my fun car, on a road with a 45+ speed limit? Every single time
Odd-Refrigerator-425@reddit
Maybe not floor it floor it, but yea I definitely give it a solid pull very frequently.
As they say... I paid for the whole tach, I'm gonna use the whole tach.
Joker8891@reddit
This is the way. I find myself doing the same, smiles per mile
WabbitCZEN@reddit
I live off of a road that goes directly to the highway. So for the 10-15 minutes I'm on it, I'm sitting between 30-40 mph until the on ramp.
baseball_mickey@reddit
Judging from what I see driving in FL, there are way too many people gunning it from red lights.
SchemeShoddy4528@reddit
have you ever drove a manual transmission? the best part is 0-60
Paulpie@reddit
It’s all 55mph where I live, so I can legally do a 0-60 anytime I want. I do it all the time. I can’t do a 40-80 really ever.
Far-Veterinarian-974@reddit
Because people think drag racing is real racing. I'd love to drop them in Appalachia and see if they can still have fun and stay on their side of the yellow line.
Or even just staying on the pavement.
TookEverything@reddit
Best part is you can have both.
My Supra is my track car. Don’t have problems taking corners with it.
Far-Veterinarian-974@reddit
They aren't talking about track driving, they're talking about on-street.
How often are you going to be flooring it from a dead stop vs how often are you going to be going from driving through towns and residential areas to highway speeds?
Same with OP. They can't possibly be talking about track and drag strip driving, because obviously that would be a silly question. Faster is better. Track, absolutely. I'm sure your Supra works great for drag setups while also being competent on a proper track.
But on the road 900 horsepower and whatever you've shaved off the 0-60 isn't going to make a difference over a stock Supra around actual fun roads. Places like the Dragon or other tight mountain roads found all along the east coast of the US. Consecutive switchbacks, blind corners due to forest and cliffs, lots of rain and debris, narrow spots and no shoulder, pedestrian traffic, bikers and horse riders, with nearest makes no difference no straightaways. And those are the ones in good condition, often they become washed out and sometimes just dirt or gravel.
Even if we stop caring about other people on the road the physics of having half the 0 to 60 time doesn't matter when a blind turn is so tight you hit wheel lock. At that point it doesn't matter if the vehicle has 100 or 1000 hp because the most speed you'll carry through that turn is going to be dependent on suspension setup, tire grip, weight balance, and oversteer-understeer characteristics, and braking ability. And with 900 hp on tap, unless you're doing the whole thing in first gear I can't imagine you're going to be using enough of your available revs to make it any fun.
Of course if somebody lives in the midwest then who cares. They don't have any fun roads, All they have are flat roads and stop lights anyway.
Frohblak@reddit
I rip it from at least 25% of the stop lights pull up to, when I’m driving by myself.
coyote500@reddit
I was always a roll guy but after getting my F90, nothing comes close to launching a car like this from a stop in terms of fun. And it's a lot safer than having fun at much higher speeds. 0-50mph from a stoplight will put a huge smile on your face in an AWD performance car. I don't even use launch control, just brake boosting will launch hard enough to pin your eyeballs to the back of your skull
Vhozite@reddit
This is exactly why I love AWD and can’t stand “just get red and winter tires bro” advice when ppl ask for AWD cars. Hard launches are fucking awesome.
DuLeague361@reddit
AMAX launches in the audi are fun
RhymeGrime@reddit
0 to 60 is definitely more important than 40-80 IMO. You're never going to go 40-80 unless you're moving from a county highway onto an entrance ramp and that gives you a ton of space to go from 40-80.
We have a ton of red lights, stop signs, traffic, and 0-60 comes in most handy.
coffeeshopslut@reddit
40-80 is for highway passing (60-80 or whatever) - 0-60 is for what, racing the guy next to you on a highway entrance after a stop light?
hpela_@reddit
Who is speeding up from 40mph to 80mph to pass ON THE HIGHWAY?
scnottaken@reddit
Probably after being stuck behind an overloaded semi for a mile in a no passing zone when the lanes finally open up.
DuLeague361@reddit
the semis aren't doing 40 tho. they're doing 60-70.
Suitable_Boat_8739@reddit
Anyone who lives at the intersection of Trucks and hills
portrowersarebad@reddit
I do 40-80 like 10x what I do 0-60. Any on ramp, coming off a slower turn, coming around people you’ve been stuck behind, etc. Only people who don’t do similar must never use the freeways.
RickyBobby96@reddit
Every stop light of course
Benjammin172@reddit
A lot, those are probably the most realistic performance characteristics. How quickly a car goes around the Nurburgring, or a car's top speed, are totally irrelevant for normal street driving. But flooring it from a standstill or while merging onto the highway are things that you can do often and safely without risking the lives of people around you. I'd say those two are the most realistic performance metrics that most people can relate to, so it makes sense that those are used to judge a car's relative performance.
Kale_Shai-Hulud@reddit
I think the 5-60mph time is also important to include in real world driving estimates, since you're not going to be using launch control from a red light in nearly all practical cases lol.
Greedy_Anybody_7660@reddit
VW Tiguan owner here. Every single red light that I am first to, I am required to floor it.
BlueMouseWithGlasses@reddit
Honda CRV owner here. I have to do the same thing, but for different reasons.
GildedApparel@reddit
I sold my v36 G35 to a coworker and daily my 2014 Impreza currently (not for long lol).
If I'm first to the light I must prepare to give it all the beans if I don't want city drivers to honk
EternalMage321@reddit
Well not with that attitude...
Specialist-Size9368@reddit
As a Viper owner. 0-60 is where the fun is at. Roll up to the on ramp to the highway. Come to a stop if no one is behind me, and stomp it.
That said I find that 450hp in a road car is too much. It is fun, but the amount of time I can have fun is limited to a few seconds.
mandatoryclutchpedal@reddit
Using manuals as example
A WRX has a 0-60 time around 5.5 seconds. It's got 271 hp. All the children rejoice at that number (that no one attempts due to the launch shock)
It's 5-60 time 6.7-7.1
Top Gear, 30–50 mph: 10.3 sec
Top Gear, 50–70 mph: 7.7 sec
A lowly GTI has 241 hp
60 mph: 5.8 sec
5–60 mph: 6.2 sec
Top Gear, 30–50 mph: 10.0 sec
Top Gear, 50–70 mph: 7.1 sec
0-60 is a helpful number but it doesn't paint the full picture. It's not as useful as some make it out to be.
Weight, torque and gearing play a huge part.
However, for every 300hp+ car on entrance ramp or at the stop light is a little 110hp econobox merging right along with them.
EntroperZero@reddit
I don't understand the point of "top gear" metrics. I don't even cruise in top gear at 30 mph, that's 4th gear or maybe 5th if I'm trying to be super eco. If I want to accelerate quickly from 30 mph, I downshift to 3rd.
mandatoryclutchpedal@reddit
From car and driver https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a32018270/how-we-test-cars/
Top gear acceleration gives a good indication of power delivery across a rev range. Low to Mid range power mid range to peak.
Downshifting just shows top end power
toasturuu@reddit
dude that's crazy they do that in turbo cars. Maybe it's fine because they're stock but I've seen people blow up turbo cars lugging their engine like that.
mandatoryclutchpedal@reddit
Time for a moment of silence for countless focus ST s that suffered an owner mashing the pedal at low rpms
EntroperZero@reddit
I understand C&D uses it, but I don't think it's a useful real-world metric, which was supposedly the point of using more than just 0-60.
portrowersarebad@reddit
Yeah but for real world purposes it’s completely useless. No one cares what top gear 30-50 is between cars since no one will ever do 30-50 in top gear if they’re actually trying to accelerate.
Natural11@reddit
They are outdated metrics from a time when every performance car had a big NA motor with a 5 or 6 speed manual, to see how lazy you could get without downshifting.
I do appreciate a vehicle with enough torque to handle a small grade without gear hunting, but in an era where most vehicles now have forced induction, it's actually not ideal to lug a turbo like that with high throttle, low RPM. The metric is also highly dependent on gear ratios and engine displacement.
They should just retire top gear stats, or replace them with something more relevant to the real world, like 50-80 or something in that range and leave gearing out of it. Quite a few one speeds on the roads these days, not to mention most vehicles with more than 6 gears will lock out top gear at those speeds if the engine speed is too low.
footpole@reddit
No using launch control in your acceleration numbers should be life in prison. It’s a completely useless thing in all real world applications for normal cars.
AwardImmediate720@reddit
Nurburgring times are absolutely not irrelevant for street driving because the Nurburgring is a country road at its core. It's a lot more relevant than standing starts. Rolling starts are relevant because passing and on ramps but standing starts are rarely something you have an opportunity to do unless you live in the boonies.
Benjammin172@reddit
The only people that are pushing cars at 100% on the road are Nissan Altima drivers. You could make the argument that cars that are designed to be quick around the Nurburgring are typically more compromised road cars because of stiff suspensions and catering more to track performance than what you'd be doing on a normal drive. And I live in the heart of traffic in Atlanta and still find space for some aggressive standing starts here and there, so not sure how true that last statement is.
AwardImmediate720@reddit
If you live in Atlanta then you also would benefit far more from rolling pulls and handling since you get into some absolutely amazing twisties basically as soon as you get outside of 285.
Of course you also have Road Atlanta right there and can just go play on a track. Which is another reason I might move that way.
01WS6@reddit
How often are you on a country road doing triple digit speeds pushing the car 100% to its limit?
AwardImmediate720@reddit
I have been advised by my lawyer not to answer this question.
Ancient-Way-6520@reddit
1/4 or 1/8 mile times would give more info than 0-60 though. Two different cars could have the same 0-60 time, but very different numbers in the 1/4 mile. A car that can launch off the line well can mask a bit of slower top end against a car that might not launch as well but has better in gear acceleration. The car with better in gear acceleration would be faster in 95% of the ways that it matters in the real world
Benjammin172@reddit
Sure, but I think it's almost splitting hairs. You're never going to get the same 0-60 time on the street as advertised with prepped tires and rollout and what not anyway. But it's a quick and easy way to gauge how fast a car feels, and no one who is doing any of these things is actually measuring the data that they'd be getting while they did it on a normal road anyway.
Visible_Temporary476@reddit
You just listed all the reasons why 0-60 sucks as a metric. That's why the 1/4 measures trap speed, so you can see what speed a car reaches within a certain distance and correlate that with the ET over the 1/4 mile. Therefore you can tell how well a car launches, whereas 0-60 obfuscates that data.
A car with AWD could do a half second better than the same car without in the 0-60. If 0-60 is the performance metric you are going by, you might think it would pull harder than the other one on the highway, but nope, in gear acceleration would be the same. If you use 1/4 mile data, you would be able to see that difference.
Ancient-Way-6520@reddit
Well that's the point, it's easier to tell from 1/4 mile time how a car will feel than from a 0-60. Two cars with the same 0-60 doesn't tell me much, but if one has a slight longer 1/4 mile time but a higher trap speed than the other, it tells me that car might not launch as well but is faster once it hooks up. That is way more info on how a car feels than 0-60
joahw@reddit
Realistically the 0-60 is going to correlate extremely well with the 1/4 mile and two cars with the same 0-60 might differ in the 1/4 by like a couple tenths of a second which translates to \~2% (unless you are comparing an ICE to an EV I guess.)
Ancient-Way-6520@reddit
0-60 doesn't give you the how, that 1/4 mile gives you. Again, two cars could have the same 0-60, and even the same 1/4 mile time, but one might have a slower trap speed than the other, meaning one hooked up better off the line, and the other accelerates harder in gear. Way more information. 0-60 doesn't tell you that at all.
joahw@reddit
How does quarter mile tell you that? Two cars could have the same quarter mile and hugely differ in those ways as well.
Ancient-Way-6520@reddit
The 1/4 mile time is made up of a combination of things like traction, weight, power and aero, the trap speed pretty much removes traction from equation. The relationship of those two numbers is what tells you how it actually gets to those times. Low trap speed would have good traction off the line, AWD for example. High trap speed, more about the power.
I think it gives you a much better overall picture of acceleration than a 0-60 time does. If I was choosing between two cars car that had the same 0-60; if I wanted one that was great a stop light races, I'd get the one that had the lower trap speed, but if I wanted one that was great at highway pulls the one that had the higher trap speed would be faster. 0-60 can't tell us that. Additionally 0-60 tells us nothing above 60, so 1/4 gives us greater resolution as well.
HailOfHarpoons@reddit
Flooring it from a standstill if 18 y.o. behavior.
Benjammin172@reddit
Neat.
unmanipinfo@reddit
I'm pretty sure merging onto a highway in 4 seconds is just as dangerous as doing it in 10 😂
TurboFucked@reddit
Maybe you drive differently from other people? I never pass up the opportunity to do a pull from a dead stop. If I'm alone, traffic is clear, and I don't see any cops, then I'm going to run through the gears.
For rolling performance, I just focus on quarter mile trap speeds, since it's a measure of power-to-weight plus aero efficiency. You can botch the launch and still trap pretty much the same speed. So it quantifies how hard the car will pull from any speed.
Below 90 - dog
90-100 - mediocre
100-110 - getting into quick territory
110-120 - most people would call this a fast car.
120-130 - this is top shelf performance, I think Hellcats and GT500s are in this neighborhood.
130+ - bonkers.
150+ - 1000hp supra club.
XGC75@reddit
I upgraded from a '12 k04 GTI to a G70 3.3t with an ECU tune and I can tell you I use the power in the G70 far more often.
The GTI was faster past 60mph, but getting there was a PITA with wheel hop and torque steer. Then once it's fun you're breaking the law.
The G70 definitely has tiny turbo syndrome (huge low end torque with trailing top-end power), but to be able to smash the gas and HOOK no matter what is so much more joyful day-to-day. 3.8s 0-60, grin, and stop before breaking the law.
WabbitCZEN@reddit
I'm still on my stock turbo, stage 1.5 tune, stage 2 clutch, V3 throttle response booster, CAI, turboback exhaust and this thing is amazing from launch. The GTI has great low end torque as is, so tuning it only improves that. Which means at lower RPMs you should be easier on the throttle to avoid that wheel hop. I still overdo it from time to time, but when I don't it's smooth as butter off the line with oomph.
Honestly, the main reason I shifted from 0-60 to 40-80 is because there are so many fuckbombs chilling in the left lane going slower than they should be who will try to stop you from getting around them. Knowing I have a car capable of dealing with their shit while already near highway speeds brings me a little bit of joy as I smile going past them.
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
There are a lot of 55 mph roads with stop lights near where I live...
Come on, you've never just wanted to give a small slice of hell from a red?
WabbitCZEN@reddit
I've done the 0-60 bit before. I prefer 40-80 now.
Whiskeypants17@reddit
Almost no big highways in my area, just twisty mountain roads with a 55mph limit.... and lots of sharp turns and stop signs at steep inclines... soooo.... 0-60 awd is really fun here, and 40-80 rwd is how you fly off a cliff.
Drunken_Hamster@reddit
Yeah, 5-40 and 20-120 are more important than 0-60. I hardly ever go from a dead stop simply because of the impact of the launch, but I love going from an idle roll or a suburban speeds roll up to highway or triple-digit speeds.
Ok-Improvement-3670@reddit
Every time you get on the freeway. The problem is that most modern cars can reach freeway speeds quickly but the drivers don’t use it. Instead they mozy onto the freeway going way too slow instead of matching speed and create dangerous conditions.
AwardImmediate720@reddit
Yup. My pickup can hit interstate speed by the end of all but the shortest ramps. And it's slow by current standards. Ain't nobody with a car newer than about 2015 missing the power to hit end of the ramp at speed, they're just not good enough drivers to actually do it.
Ok-Improvement-3670@reddit
You nailed the problem. Today’s cars have fantastic performance. Most drivers lack the skills or the will to utilize it and the roads are more dangerous for it. The irony for me are the drivers who buy “fast” cars with no intention to use any of it. I guess we can categorize it as the same wasteful excess as people who drive large trucks to their office daily.
rambleon84@reddit
yeah fwd problems, i have to rely on my right foot traction control if i want to not spin in first or second. Give me that good mid-range speed and grip every day.
Dirty_Dragons@reddit
I primarily do city driving. If I hit 60 I'm speeding. 0 to 40 is a much better metric for me.
In my car I don't have to try that hard to leave every other car behind me, until I hit the next red light :(
FluffyExplanation228@reddit
I agree, 300bhp. - that's awesome! 5 seconds from 0 to 60 is fast, and that's enough for normal driving. Yes, there are faster cars, but if you don't race, who cares? The main thing is that you can accelerate easily and enjoy driving!
throwawayrsadvic@reddit
depends on the weight
EMPAEinstein@reddit
People are obsessed with horsepower wars. 300 up to 400 hp is about as much power as you can use on the street and even then I doubt you’re using 75% of that for the daily commute. We have a 23’ SQ5 and it’s complete overkill for the road. Have also owned multiple Porsches and we also now have a new accord hybrid which is my preferred daily. Quick enough and 44 mph. What’s not to love? Lol
RicerRabbit@reddit
I currently own an '03 Lancer Evo pushing only 315 awhp. I've been in some more pushing some more power.
I have plenty of fun with mine and I think 350 whp would be the sweet spot for that car. Perfect amount of power for the driving roads I frequent. I wish more people appreciate the Evo in a more stockish form, as a lot of people like to push a lot of power in Lancer Evos.
l00b0@reddit
Love the Ferrari and Chevrolet grouping
haranguetanned@reddit
They both make rear engined flat plane crank v8 supercars, have won a lot at le mans, have yellow badges, and are vaguely associated with horses. Tbf they're basically the same company.
AnemoneOfMyEnemy@reddit
When Chevy started mass producing Corvettes that rival exotics (at least on paper), they deserved to be mentioned in the same breath as Ferrari.
At least Chevy won’t sue you for wrapping your Corvette.
Unfortunate_moron@reddit
I mean, who else is selling cars with more than 1,000hp? Tesla and Lucid, I suppose.
ReserveDrunkDriver@reddit
Ferrari, Lamborghini, Koenigsegg, Bugatti, Rimac, & Hennessey to name a few
GenshinKenshin@reddit
TIL there was a car brand named Hennessey
the_lamou@reddit
Well, less a car brand and more of "a scammer that mostly runs a custom and modification shop where they steal parts from some clients to make cars for other clients and which occasionally makes a kind of new car by haphazardly chopping up other manufacturers' cars and gluing them together with hopes and wishes and American flags."
Tony_Lacorona@reddit
I work at COTA and one of them came out for a track day. It broke the track record, then proceeded to literally blow fire and black smoke out of the exhaust and they retired the car for the session 💀
WindyCity_X@reddit
Keonisegg crashed at the nurburgring and didnt Set a record there. Doesn't mean the car sucks.
One thing you guys might not know about the F5s They are all owned. That was a customer car being Driven by David Donahue
thisismydaddyvoice@reddit
I have to ask, what is your job there and is working at a track as cool as I imagine it to be?
Tony_Lacorona@reddit
I’m a track marshal, mainly for track days we just sit and flag if something happens, but it’s pretty chill for the most part. Occasionally I’ll sit in for pit lane or race control which is nice. You get to see some cool cars, but it is a bit brutal in the Texas heat sometimes.
Bister_Mungle@reddit
"Worth it." - that guy, probably
InstructionSea9965@reddit
Wasn’t always that way, back in the mid 90’s he was the guy that modded Vipers for more power.
joncaseydraws@reddit
Where is this coming from? I’ve never interacted with them just curious. I’ve seen some amazing builds from them, even a dude at my gym has a rad Hennessy truck.
the_lamou@reddit
There's been a bunch of big exposes from basically every major automotive publication and quite a few minor ones.
No-Status-9441@reddit
Oddly, one of my coworkers has a Hennessey modded Shelby GT350. Supposedly 800 HP. I guess he got one of the 12?
thetrappster@reddit
He should have it dynoed to make sure he didn't just pay tens of thousands of dollars for badges...
pm-me-racecars@reddit
They're more of a tuner than a manufacturer. Similar to how Shelby American was in the 60s.
The biggest difference is that Shelby delivered all their orders.
inquisitiveimpulses@reddit
Hey when 5:00 rolls around in the shop and it's Miller time but you drink Hennessy, you gotta short somebody somewhere
thetrappster@reddit
And Shelby had racing pedigree.
PeterFechter@reddit
It's the same guy who invented Cognac
BelsnickelBurner@reddit
Bro is naming super cars … this is such a stupid comment thread right here
B5_S4@reddit
Hennessey only produces scams, not cars. Fuck that guy.
Teledildonic@reddit
Hey now, they've made like 12 cars cobbled together from the parts of like 30 customers.
AwesomeBantha@reddit
Good enough for Top Gear to put him on the kevel of Koenigseg and Rimac
Al1enated@reddit
That was comical lmfao
WindyCity_X@reddit
The F5 has tons of engineering and tech actually Wich is irrelevant to the owners personal issues
Hennessey V8 twin-turbo ‘Fury’ Compression: 10:1 Bore: 104.8 mm (4.1 inches) Stroke: 95.3 mm (3.8 inches) Power-to-weight ratio: 1,298 hp/ton (1.34 hp/kg) Valve train: Pushrod & Rocker Turbocharger: Precision ball bearing twin turbochargers (76 mm billet aluminum compressor wheels) Exhaust wheel: Stainless steel Lubrication system: Dry sump Engine block: Cast iron Cylinder heads: Aluminum cylinder heads with canted titanium intake valves Connection rods: Forged steel Valves: Inconel exhaust valves with dual valve springs Total engine weight: 280kg (617 lbs)
The car holds the 1/2 mile production car record 221.92 mph in 14 seconds
The car also ran the 1/4 mile in 9.82 seconds @ 169 mph
AlwaysStayHumble@reddit
Ikr that felt so weird and out of place. Still a great vídeo
Dry_Ninja_3360@reddit
Shame. The F5 looks like a genuine weapon.
joncaseydraws@reddit
Where did all the Hennessy hate come from? Haven’t heard these stories. They definitely have made some cool shit.
pnetdg@reddit
Hennessey has been a POS for decades, and his shop was a complete shit show back in the day. Even if he is clean as a whistle now, even if his business is legitimate finally (unlikely); he got to where he is by lying cheating stealing and scamming. He always had the right friends to pull it off. Hennessey Performance has made a small fraction of the cool shit you probably think they have. Most of their packages and kits are simply off the shelf from other companies (Whipple, VMP, etc) and he just puts his name all over it.
Ive enjoyed watching that guy on plenty of videos. He would probably be cool to hang out with etc. But its difficult to just ignore the past (and likely the present behind the scenes). It sort of sucks for America that this was apparently our closest thing to Mate Rimac or Christian von Koenigsegg. John Hennessey probably couldn't repair a toaster oven.
BotherPuzzleheaded50@reddit
I saw a Hennessey Audi RS Q8 recently, and the owner happened to be coming back to his car. He's the only person I've ever met who has interacted directly with John. This guy raved about John, the company, and the performance of his car. I'm not saying he's a good guy or has a good company, just relaying one interesting perspective i heard. The audi did sound mean as fuck.
gimpwiz@reddit
He's started a number of companies after getting busted doing whatever with the previous one, but I haven't heard of him scamming anyone in like five-six years (last time was all the veterans he screwed out of their GI bills.) So maybe he's finally turned a new leaf after leaving behind hundreds of victims if not more. Maybe not. Who knows? He has to deliver at least on some promises so maybe you will be lucky if you send him your Q8 or whatever. :)
illlojik@reddit
Oh? Now I've got a rabbit hole to dive into.
B5_S4@reddit
At one point you could look at the Public court docs for the county they were in and there were like 115 active litigations against him because he never paid suppliers and stole parts off customer cars to finish other cars.
Square-Cockroach-884@reddit
Had one Hennessy at a shop I worked at. It there when I started and still when I left 1.5 years later with problems with the build
illlojik@reddit
Holy sh-t. That’s wild. Thanks for the background
somedude456@reddit
Yeah, back in the pre social media days, when car forums rules the web, I recall seeing lots of comments like "Hennessey, you mean hennescrewed!"
StonePrism@reddit
Named Hennessey before Dodge, Aston Martin, and Mercedes. There's also Pininfarina and soon Lotus. It's actually easier to name companies that don't have a kilohorse offering.
TheBigAndy@reddit
Dodge doesn't have anything over 1000hp anymore ##RIPHemi
tomplace@reddit
They never did. The helephant never materialised
RelevantJackWhite@reddit
Give it a few years of the electric model, they'll get it up there for sure
Wanderson90@reddit
Hem-E
TheBigAndy@reddit
The Banshee might be there, as they have yet to release specs.
hundredjono@reddit
That's if they last a few more years with the Hemi V8 dead
IISerpentineII@reddit
They discontinued the Hellephant 426 crate engine?
Well, shit. Not that I could afford one, but still...
prodMilkywayzz@reddit
Do you mean because the 170s were limited? As kn they dont currently PRODUCE anything<1000hp after switching to ev? Just trying to clarify haha
Clyde926@reddit
I got to drive a taycan turbo and i don't think anything will ever be better than that.
tacomonday12@reddit
I mean, Dodge might be the one company that needs the inflated horsepower - both for branding and to make up for their dogshit efficiency.
StonePrism@reddit
Shh you're gonna piss off the Mo-Tards
Spidey6917@reddit
No it’s not
StonePrism@reddit
Okay cool, thanks for contributing
Spidey6917@reddit
My pleasure 😘
NightlyCrowned@reddit
Lotus already made the emira with like 2k horsepower
StonePrism@reddit
The Emira does not have that much. You're talking about the Evija, but I don't know if it is actually on sale yet
NightlyCrowned@reddit
Oh lol. But I'm pretty sure the evija is a production car
StonePrism@reddit
It is a limited production car, not a full production. But it does appear that first deliveries were made last year.
MilkyWaySamurai@reddit
Maybe for sale, but definitely not on sale haha
magnament@reddit
What a loser, that other guy barely even named 5 others
Uselesserinformation@reddit
Doesn't Rolls-Royce have 1? I believe the older phantoms?
SF90Reeve@reddit
You must be confusing them for another entirely differemt car because Rolls Royce has never made a car with anything close to a 1000hp .
Quirky-Painter-9636@reddit
McLaren
ObeyKauza@reddit
How about we start naming more affordable cars where not only 120 were made.
These cars are hardly on the road, while other brands are making sub 1000Hp cars but by the thousands. Look how many hell cats were made, C8 stingrays etc. these are more common on the road than any of the names you listed.
the_lamou@reddit
I mean, a Hellcat would also be considered not affordable by most people — they start at $80,000. Same with the C8 Stingray. And neither is more common where I live than the Taycan Turbo S or the Lucid Air Grand Touring Performance. Both have (or will have) sales much higher than "120."
The problem with focusing on things that are "affordable" is that it's entirely relative and subjective. The median household income in the US is about $80k, and most people aren't buying cars worth an entire year of household income, nor would they see them as "affordable."
ObeyKauza@reddit
I mean I’ve 8 C8 stingrays at my dealer alone (my place of employment) and hellcats are known to be one of the most financed vehicles on the market to folk with credit scores lower than 750…
Maybe it’s where I live but the other vehicles mentioned would only ever be in states such as California or Florida (for those like me who do reside in the states) and over the pond it would really be vice versa. Here in MI hellcats, red eyes, scat packs are very very common, and there’s only like two mclarens in the whole state haha.
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
Yeah... well I think the Italian companies are real jagoffs, so I hesitate to even mention Ferrari... and don't even get me started on that Pizza-pasta-waffle car company, Dodge.
(/hj, how did we get from Countach to whatever bs name they have now?)
drail18@reddit
Porsche
alexzz123@reddit
Rivian will be selling a quad motor version of the R1 with 1,025 hp
Capable-Inspector754@reddit
New ZR1
gravitydood@reddit
Chevrolet is selling cars over 1000hp?
LordMongrove@reddit
But doesn't Chevrolet make a supercar these days?
That_Trapper_guy@reddit
Only thing keeping the C8 from being a super car is the price lol
settlementfires@reddit
With the right driver that thing will hang with about anything the exotics put out
LordMongrove@reddit
And a supercar is all about “hanging” of course.
settlementfires@reddit
It'll beat some of them too
LordMongrove@reddit
My point is that people don’t buy supercars because of how fast they are. That part of it, sure, but no supercar buyer is cross shopping in the Chevy dealership.
Wingbreaker2@reddit
They actually are. I've met a great many people with huracans, 458s, 488s, F8s etc that also have a C8Z06 in the garage.
Not really cross shopping against, but buying it in addition to those. I hear a common consensus that most like driving the C8Z more than the Huracan but less than the newer Ferrari's.
LordMongrove@reddit
That’s fair, but as you say, it’s not cross shopping.
settlementfires@reddit
People do buy corvettes because they're faster than super cars though
Equivalent-Money8202@reddit
No, they buy them cause they can’t afford supercars
Iwantav@reddit
The E-Ray and ZR1 are coming really close to 200k in Canada. I don’t know how expensive the cheapest supercar is at the moment, but it’s gotta be close.
That_Trapper_guy@reddit
You're not wrong at all, but there's still the snotty 'it's still a Vette ' crowd which I personally love
Mimical@reddit
Yeah, I love vettes, but the C8 isn't just a vette.
I have no issues looking at this like any other supercar given it's absolutely bonkers spec sheet.
Obviously definitions are arbitrary and can be argued a million ways but I think it's safe to say it's not really a sportscar anymore.
threeLetterMeyhem@reddit
Nah, not the only thing. It's got some build quality jank to it, from the mass manufacturing process. Misaligned panels, kinda crappy paint, crooked stitching on the leather... Still love minez though!
That_Trapper_guy@reddit
I take it you've never heard of my friend McLaren... https://youtube.com/shorts/8QlzjwGTZRc?si=YdiK90_8GN6bT3DZ
gimpwiz@reddit
Nah, the corvette is never a supercar because it's a corvette.
The definition of supercar includes a lot of things depending on who you ask, like; fast, handles well, expensive, looks great, and not a corvette.
:)
blue_bomber697@reddit
C8 Z06 & upcomming C8 ZR1 are considered supercars yes.
LordMongrove@reddit
I see 20 corvettes every day. A car that common can’t be a supercar, regardless of its performance.the Z06 and ZR1 are no different:
The only people that think these will be supercars are people that don’t buy supercars. As I said before, nobody is cross-shopping Chevy and Ferrari.
blue_bomber697@reddit
I mean, they are cross shopping supercars absolutely. My friend for example. His garage is: 720S, Huracan 610-4 supercharged, E63S and he has a Z06 on order and not a different exotic. Another friend of mine went from a 720S and C6 ZR1 to selling the 720S for the C8 Z06. So you are absolutely wrong that the C8 Z06/ZR1 are not in the conversation and comparisons with the exotic supercars. R8’s for example also used to have a 420hp V8 version that could be had fairly cheaply. People weren’t going around calling the R8 not a supercar because of that.
LordMongrove@reddit
It’s the same people calling the Corvette a supercar that called the R8 a supercar along with the GTR.
Honestly, I don’t think you have the same understanding of what a supercar is that I do. And that’s fine, since it there isn’t one definition that everybody will agree on.
I’ll say it again, when you see 20+ of a car everyday, it can’t be a supercar. When many people could stretch and buy one, it’s not a supercar. It’s a sports car: supercars have rarity and exclusivity. The corvette doesn’t. It’s an Everyman sports car. A great one that can compete and beat many supercars from a performance perspective, but it’s not a supercar.
blue_bomber697@reddit
I mean, you’re wrong though, and borderline psychotic for implying that an R8 is not a Supercar. Your entire opinion was invalidated with that sentence. The C8 Z06 is well within supercar price range, and costs just as much and more than many gently used exotics (which are still supercars FYI). Not to mention that the ZR1 will be full on exotic pricing and exclusivity. The existence of a lower trim car does not negate the prestige of a higher trimmed car. A Huracan has like 15 variants at various performance levels for example. A Senna is considered a Hypercar. Its bones are a 720S. Having a lower model does not take away from the higher level model.
LordMongrove@reddit
psychotic? lol. Are you 15?
blue_bomber697@reddit
Of course not. But if you aren’t even going to give a realistic answer, your entire opinion is invalidated. Nobody would imply the R8 is not an exotic supercar. It’s quite literally a re-skinned Lamborghini. Give a ridiculous opinion, get a ridiculous answer.
LordMongrove@reddit
Enjoy your corvette, but don’t let your passion for them blind you into thinking your opinion is widely shared.
The R8 is not exotic. It has an exotic motor, but it’s an Audi. With a Lamborghini, the “skin” is a large part of what makes it exotic.
We’re done here. If my opinion is “invalidated”, what is yours? At least I am an impartial 3rd party with no axe to grind. You are not. You are a zealot.
blue_bomber697@reddit
If you had more than a couple of brain cells to rub together you’d notice my flair and see that I don’t even own a Corvette at the moment. I’ve literally never In my life someone try to say the Gallardo/Huracan are supercars, but an R8, which is the same car mechanically, is not. Lmao.
UltimaRS800@reddit
Track performance wise it's legit atp. Chevy's been cooking since the C4 ZR1 about time people start noticing.
cubs223425@reddit
People have noticed plenty. It's just when you do such a shit job managing your performance offerings (CT4 didn't get a facelift with the CT5, Camaro was basically left to rot for the past 5 years), noticing isn't always enough. That said, the C8 has been incredibly popular, so there's plenty of noticing going on.
Rise_Regime@reddit
Are you referring to the Cadillac CT4/CT5 as Chevrolet vehicles or am I misunderstanding?
cubs223425@reddit
I suppose I did, though not intentionally. It was meant to convey that the Cadillac's share technology, such as the Alpha platform (from the Camaro, which had the CT5 BW's power train as well). That's too mean, the Corvette is kind of the last one for GM performance, it seems. I doubt there's anything for the rest of GM after the Blackwings retire.
Wingbreaker2@reddit
The BlackWing is supposedly retiring in a year or two, sad to see it go.
I would've never guessed that the last GM vehicle with a manual would be a Cadillac.
Rise_Regime@reddit
Nah that makes sense! I thought you were lumping in CT4/CT5 as Chevy but that’s a fair point.
Ford with the new mustangs have put Camaro to shame - but the Vettes are still a class above all other American performance cars.
kunzinator@reddit
They are aren't they....
Rise_Regime@reddit
In the same way that a Charger is an Alfa…
Roast_A_Botch@reddit
CT4/5 were alpha Platform, same as Camaro. They shared powertrains across all trims, and even suspensions in the Black wings. The Cadillacs were targeting a different market, and obviously more luxury focused, but they're still more alike than different.
Your comparison makes no sense as Chargers never shared a platform with any Alfa(or any of the post merge brands). People aren't just lumping them together because they're both GM. When discussing performance/driving dynamics they're pretty damn similar because they share all the parts that affect those things.
Remarkable_Ad5011@reddit
New ZR1 will be.
Wingbreaker2@reddit
It's the weirdest grouping and I'm still shocked everytime I see it.
With the C8Z06, ZR1, ZORA going midengine FPC the comparison is strong. What a time to be alive.
FrontAfternoon1466@reddit
Spot on 😂😂😂
OldCarWorshipper@reddit
Check out the "GTO vs. GTO" road test comparo that Car And Driver magazine did back in the 60's, when they pitted Pontiac's version against Ferrari's version. It was deliberately done to ruffle folks' feathers.
BrolecopterPilot@reddit
Chevy won right?
OldCarWorshipper@reddit
There was no Chevy. Only the Poncho and the Ferrari.
I believe the Poncho beat the Ferrari in the 1/4 mile, but on the handling course the Ferrari obviously left the Goat for dead.
BrolecopterPilot@reddit
Yeah it was an attempt at a joke
OldCarWorshipper@reddit
Of course! GM killed off the Pontiac brand in 2008-2009.
AdvantagePast2484@reddit
Corvettes are on par with Ferrari in terms of power I don't see a problem...
Oknohg@reddit
Hell, every time I see the current generation Vette on the road I assume it's a Lambo. Thing looks wicked fast.
rsta223@reddit
The C8 is a great car, though compared to a Porsche GT car or Ferrari, it doesn't feel quite as nimble or light on its feet. The Europeans are still just a bit more effortless and telepathic feeling in their handling and a bit better balanced overall, though for the price difference, Chevy has done a truly phenomenal job. You also definitely can't argue with the raw pace they can deliver, especially at a given price point.
Rope_on_a_pope@reddit
Italy has entered the chat
Vcr2017@reddit
The Corvette ZR1 features a 5.5L, twin-turbocharged DOHC flat-plane crank V8 engine dubbed the LT7.
The LT7 engine produces 1,064 horsepower at 7,000 rpm and 828 lb-ft of torque at 6,000 rpm, per SAE guidelines — the most power ever from a factory Corvette and the most powerful V8 ever produced in America from an auto manufacturer.
Corvette ZR1 boasts a GM-estimated top speed of over 215 mph on the racetrack and will dispatch the quarter mile with a
GM-estimated sub-10-second time. Purposeful carbon fiber aero package creates over 1,200 pounds of downforce at top speed.
ZR1 revives one of the most iconic styles in Corvette history: the split rear window.
Privateer_Lev_Arris@reddit
Maybe he was trying to give an attainable example
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
I was trying to give an example I actually like.
Ferrari and Chevrolet make attractive art pieces... the other fellas... ugh.
Tesla is Tesla, Lamborghini makes bricks, and I've never even seen a Hennessy irl.
Scared_Brilliant6410@reddit
The rear on the new corvette is gross. It looks like recycled Camaro lights. Don’t like the interior either.
The Huracan, Aventador, and Revuelto are awesome.
McLarens are nice. 570s is really fun and the 600lt is awesome. The GT is ok looking but has the 720s motor for a fraction of the price.
Standard-Potential-6@reddit
The C8 front end is way too tall imo, but pedestrian safety laws matter, since you can’t call it a “light truck” like everything else on the road
Snoopj6001@reddit
stop your being to rational for reddit lol.
BeamMeUpReddit@reddit
/r/BrandNewSentence
Umbra427@reddit
There was a Ferrari that had a GM transmission……..
PercySnowsHandgun@reddit
You want to stick with the luxury brands, like Mercedes, Lexus, Yugo....
WindyCity_X@reddit
Surprisingly, they have done business numerous Times , including the implementation of magnaride In earlier, ferrari models , which originates from 1990s Cadillac/GM/Delphi tech that was used on the ZL1 .
Performance wise, Ferrari & GM have a lot in common When it comes to the Z06 & ZR1 trim levels .
GuyMcTest@reddit
My old Chevy Cruze would like a word
Bimlouhay83@reddit
And "whoever"
BJabs@reddit
First time in the history of the internet anyone's ever said, "Ferrari and Chevrolet and whoever."
chedderizbetter@reddit
“Sure, Bentley and Mazda make quick cars…”
Bovine_Marauder@reddit
Some of those recent Ferraris have designs and taillights ripped straight from Corvettes and Camaro's.
Amish_EDM@reddit
Yeah man, we all know that Koenigsegg and Dacia are pushing the ragged edge of power and technology.
InsognaTheWunderbar@reddit
I got an image in my head of someone cross-shopping a corvette with a 488, lmao.
jontss@reddit
Funny enough my mechanic did the same once when comparing repair costs. Two cars were in for the same pulley. One was a Chevy and one a Ferrari. Explained the part looks identical on both but the Ferrari one is 14x the price.
Snoopj6001@reddit
He was just using examples of cars with high HP......Ferrari is just a car at the end of the day
AGallopingMonkey@reddit
You have Ferrari, and then corvette, the Ferrari at home
Kavani18@reddit
The Corvette is just as legendary in its own way. Nowhere close to the “Ferrari at home”. Give me a Vette any day
AGallopingMonkey@reddit
It’s a joke about the styling of the C8 man. No need to get your cargo shorts in a twist. Obviously corvettes are cool cars
Spiral_Slowly@reddit
His shorts aren't in a twist, your joke just sucked
EntroperZero@reddit
I thought it was pretty funny. You Corvette guys need to relax, stress is bad for your blood pressure.
AGallopingMonkey@reddit
Just like ur mom
Kavani18@reddit
I’m 21. Not really the cargo shorts wearing type lol
AGallopingMonkey@reddit
I agree actually. Smoking about the C6 just screams quintessential corvette for me. Might be a nostalgia thing though.
When_hop@reddit
Gotta have triples, triples is best
lectorlibrorum@reddit
It's hard not to do that with the C8 out
dr0p7E@reddit
was hoping another person would say something
Dandi1337@reddit
The only people who actually call these cars slow are edgy keyboard warriors, there’s a concept on the internet that says the more engagement like comments and likes the post gets the more the algorithm will boost it to other viewers, that’s why hot takes like “300hp is slow” get so popular, because they’re not! The comments are full of people engaging and arguing about these takes. Anyways it really doesn’t matter at the end of the day, as long as you enjoy your ride and think 300 is enough for you stick to it, if you get the itch for more power go for it! And always remember, 99% of the kids who call anything under 400hp slow are either driving a clapped 99 civic or something their dad bought them
Interesting_Term4516@reddit
Found a v6 mustang owner
Pgr050590@reddit
300 horsepower is more power than most people can handle. I was born in 1990 and growing up through the 90’s and 2000’s 300 horsepower was still considered a lot of power for a car and honestly it still is.
My first car was an Acura RSX with 200 horsepower and that was plenty to get my 16 year old dumbass in plenty of trouble.. As an adult I’m grateful and thankful I didn’t have a 300+ horsepower car at that time and I am genuinely concerned for the kids that are new drivers I see now that are rolling around in 4-500 horsepower modified cars like N54 3 series that you can purchase for extremely cheap. That wasn’t even an option when I first got my license.
The issue is the internet has made people think that anything under 1000 horsepower is “slow” and most people commenting and giving feedback don’t even own cars so it’s a black hole of misinformation that is going to get people killed. The culture is terrible, nobody has respect for power anymore and reckless driving has been made so much more available due to cheap power and unrealistic expectations of the machines limits and capabilities.
Currently I have a Tesla Model S Plaid. I have had around 25 cars to date, I’ve modified the majority of them. I have had built motors, added superchargers, upgraded turbos etc etc and have had some wildly fast cars. The Tesla is probably the fastest car I’ve owned and frankly it is absurdly fast beyond what any person could ever even use on the street. I respect the hell out of the power and rarely drive it to its potential unless the circumstances are right. The only places people should be pushing their cars to the limits are on a track. I have no issue with someone gunning it on an open highway or empty back roads away from civilization, but the things I’ve seen on social media and on the streets (like people weaving in and out of traffic on the highway) truly shows how little respect people these days have for the power these modern day cars produce.
GimmeChickenBlasters@reddit
LOL pretty much anything that isn't an economy car is 300+hp, including minivans.
Guess what? It's not 1990 anymore. Technology has advanced a lot. Cars are more powerful and better handling. If your car was made in the last decade and has fewer than 300hp it probably is an economy level car.
Plazmatron44@reddit
What a load of nonsense and you've written in a petulant arrogant manner too.
GimmeChickenBlasters@reddit
The only nonsense is your ignorance of the market. Even the Rav4 is available with over 300hp and you're out here talking about that being more than people can handle. Stop projecting your terrible driving skills on everyone else
lmao go remind the teacher that homework is due, you dork.
RandolphCarter2112@reddit
The first-gen Dodge Viper had (i think) 350ish hp. In the early 90s enthusiasts would describe it as overpowered and a handful to drive.
Traction control has made a huge difference in safely putting HP to pavement.
Plazmatron44@reddit
It had 400.
dopadelic@reddit
It was 400hp at the crank, and at 4600rpm. One needs to consider the torque curve too. The 8L V10 made massive torque so you're going to feel that oomph even at low RPMs.
You're near the peak of that 465 ft-lbs torque curve even below 2000RPM.
RubMyCrystalBalls@reddit
Bingo! The beauty of the V10 torque with the manual meant you could take off from a light in 2nd gear and not even have to touch the accelerator.
Though that did mean it was a terrible car too teach people how to drive a manual on, lol
hannahranga@reddit
Plus better tires
Nellies_Daddy@reddit
It’s like building tolerance to a drug. Sure, it feels good, but eventually it’ll just feel normal. Then you need more to feel good again. It’s a vicious cycle until you OD.
Was I happy with my 440 horsepower 4th gen Camaro? Yes. For a while.
Was I happy with my 600 horsepower C5 Corvette? Yes. For a while.
Am I in the middle of twin-turboing that corvette and shooting for 1,000+. Yes. Will I get bored eventually? I hope not. Will I OD on horsepower? Probably. Will I have an amazing time doing it? Absolutely.
Plazmatron44@reddit
Chasing the dragon of performance, it happens with pc gamers too, if they're not gaming at 4k 240 fps on max settings they feel cheated and 60 fps is considered too low a frame rate.
TP_Crisis_2020@reddit
For me, that need for speed declined as I got older. I built a low 10 second 1g AWD DSM when I was 20 and romped on that thing as a daily for a while. But in my 40's, I just don't drive that crazy anymore.
DiscountGothamKnight@reddit
This is exactly why I have a hard time driving anything under 400hp. Im so used to being loud and fast that a car feels broken if it’s quiet and/or slow.
BrenMan_94@reddit
This is why I have a Mini and a minivan. I've got an overly practical daily and a go-kart for weekend cruising/Chinese takeout runs 🥴😎
Specialist-Size9368@reddit
I was the opposite. My sports car evolution went 73 914, 13 Club Spec Miata, 18 Fiat Abarth Spyder. 99 Dodge Viper
After I got the Viper I figured out you can't use the power most of the time. Flooring onto the highway is fun, but cruising 70 mph at 1700 rpm is boring.
So I got an old slow Ferrari. It loses to trucks on onramps when they don't know I am flooring it. The Ferrari is exciting at 70mph on the highway. It is more fun to floor around town, but on a 30 mph road it just wasn't being pushed.
So I got the Morgan and it is at its best 60 MPH and under.
wideopenvtwin@reddit
This exactly. I'm amazing how quickly you can go from "this is stupid fast" to "I need more power". Also, a 400+hp 4th gen is just pure fun.
Marranyo@reddit
Where do you drive your car that you need more than 400hp?
skooma_consuma@reddit
The fuckin on ramp.
wideopenvtwin@reddit
There's nowhere I need more than 400hp. There are many places I can use more than 400hp.
Nellies_Daddy@reddit
Yup! I absolutely love the LS-based engines. It is so easy to reach fun power levels.
JayBee58484@reddit
I hit that point with my mustang got to around 1200whp or so and just got tired of the car i think it was really moreso me realizing i didnt enjoy drag builds quite as much as i thought i would. In all seriousness once you hit 750+whp you've already got an incredibly fast car.
Nellies_Daddy@reddit
That’s why I try to build for street/road course. It’ll do OK at the strip, but it’ll be way more useable in other scenarios.
TookEverything@reddit
With RWD there’s definitely a limit though. I’m shooting for 1000 just to say I have it pretty much, but I daily at 750.
JayBee58484@reddit
I've still got my belaks from the og owners setup, they still have relatively fresh ET Street Rs on them. I don't think I'll ever take this back to a drag setup hmu if your interested in buying them lol
Nellies_Daddy@reddit
This is what I’m doing with my C5. Braking 1k gets me the dyno sheet and bragging rights.
Turning the boost down gives it street manners.
kyonkun_denwa@reddit
I’m going to use this as an excuse for sticking with my IS 250. “Sorry, I can’t get the manual 340i, I don’t do drugs”
Alec_NonServiam@reddit
The B58 is a hell of a drug. Every car should come with one as an option. B58 Miata? Yes. B58 truck? Definitely. B58 motorcycle, fuck it!
JayBee58484@reddit
Undoubtedly incredible tuning potential and can take a beating
kyonkun_denwa@reddit
I know, my dad just got a Z4 M40i delivered in September, and it’s SO FUCKING FAST. I drove it a couple times and mashing the peddle just made me scream out “POWER! UNLIMITED POWER!” like I was Palpatine taking over the Senate.
Nellies_Daddy@reddit
People are going to be so confused until you elaborate.
Captain__Obvious___@reddit
I think just as important as power is power band. That’s why, for me, nothing can top an NA engine. I’m sure everyone loves the sound of a good NA, but for some people, they might not like having that low down power. But that’s what makes it fun to me, if you want the power, you gotta dance with the car and wring it out.
You’ll simply always be lower on torque compared to something boosted with a super or turbocharger, simple as, but I personally don’t care. Theres the added benefit of the predictability/smoothness of the power band, which very few boosted engines mimic well. Developments with mild hybrid systems have been great for smoothing that out though, but then you’re also adding weight.
At the end of the day, I agree with the desensitization thing you’re highlighting here for sure, but everyone just has their own favorite flavor which I think generally comes first in determining wants/preferences. I myself wouldn’t trade the song and dance for more power, even with a smoothly boosted engine. I just love how an NA’s power gradually kicks in as the engine starts screaming up to 7, 8, 9000 rpm (if you’re lucky enough to have something that goes that high!). That, to me, is pure bliss.
Religion_Of_Speed@reddit
This is the way. I went from an 06 Mazda3 (stock, pointless in terms of performance) to the SL I have now, which is somewhere in the ballpark of double the power. At first it was kind of a lot, definitely had me smiling pretty much all the time. Well it's only a few months later and I'm starting to think I would like some more. It's quick but it's not fast. I got it up to around 140 on my test drive and it just felt calm, like a normal car doing 80. It didn't give me the feeling of going fast. But I tell you what doing 100+ in that Mazda was fucking terrifying. Definitely made some bad decisions on some country roads a few times.
Then again I've always had a bit of a problem with wanting to go really fast. That's kinda like the driving force in my brain. It's absolutely gonna get me killed one day. And I think that's the answer, some of us are just prone to wanting more power while some of us are okay with being reasonably quick. I think 300hp is plenty for 99% of people. Hell I'd be happy enough if I had that for the rest of my life. But I'd be even happier with something like 700.
Nellies_Daddy@reddit
If you’re going to go fast, doing it in a car that is stable at those speeds is the way to go.
I love the SL500s. The only downside is that modding them is pricey.
I’ve been eyeballing some W221 S65 AMGs since they are in the $15k-$25k range now. I believe Jeremy Clarkson said it “has enough torque to restart a dead planet.”
Religion_Of_Speed@reddit
Oh absolutely. That was more to illustrate that the need for the feeling of speed is not met, while it does meet the requirement for fast. The Mercedes just doesn't give me the scary feeling of going fast but I much prefer the safety.
And yeah, I've been doing some light research here and there on modifying and it's not a thing that's going to happen quickly. I do have an overarching plan for the thing over the next 20 years. Dubbing it project SR-129 (want everything to be inspired by the SR-71). Not sure what that looks like yet.
lmao I've never heard that quote but from what I heard that makes sense. Shame they look the way they do. That's the main thing I love about the SL, the way it looks. And the $7k price tag for 85k miles and damn good condition. Someone lost a lot of money on that one.
CG_Ops@reddit
This is why I like motorcycles for my occasional need for speed. My road bike is a KTM 890R, with 125hp and will do 0-60 in 3.5sec, 3 if I put it in launch mode. It's at the limit of what I consider comfortably-fun fast for public roads.
When I was racing, the tuned, track-only R1 was putting 218HP to the ground on a 435lb bike with 150lb rider. It was so fast that you HAD to be on focus mode to ride it safely at a spirited-pace or faster. It had no chill. It was simply scary fast.
Cars, by comparison, lie to us about how safe they are, especially with setups that make my R1 look slow. You don't feel the threat of death inherent in piloting a vehicle putting down 0.25-0.5 HP per pound when you're wrapped up in a climate controlled, safety-harnessed, 2k-lb+ steel cage of impact absorbing crumple zones & air bags.
So, in short... agreed, it's like a drug to us adrenaline junkies. Equally as addictive and dangerous. I don't buy sports cars because I don't want my drug to feel safe.
Creature_Cumfarts@reddit
This is why motorbikes have ruined cars for me. My R1 is stupidly, irresponsibly fast for $22k OTD, but even my Ninja 400 feels faster than the 400+ HP cars I've driven. I can't scratch that itch with a car anymore so I'm not gonna go broke trying to.
Nellies_Daddy@reddit
I have a 2023 CBR600RR with some light modifications. It definitely scratches the itch sometimes. I just can’t handle that body position for more than 30-45 minutes at a time.
CaptainKrakrak@reddit
Me with my 139hp car always stuck being slow pokes with their 300hp cars 😤. I bet most drivers never floored their car even once. My car does the 0-60 in something like 10s and I’m always raging when the light turns green because everybody is accelerating soooo sloooowly!
SchemeShoddy4528@reddit
not sure your roadrage is relevant to the question but ok
name_not_verified@reddit
139?? Try 54! Such a blast to drive! Foot to the floor everywhere, and braking is totally optional. Definitely get stuck behind the big hitters. Probably because they're expensive to drive harshly, right?
ImportanceAmbitious9@reddit
Most of them just want it so they can just tell people what they have, not to actually enjoy it themselves 😂
kachunkachunk@reddit
Canadian here, so km/h. Around the Toronto area almost a decade ago, I needed to pass another car on the highway. For a bit of background, folks in the Greater Toronto Area already drive about 20-over the limit (100km/h) on the highways as a norm, so this would be 120km/h. If you drive slower than that, such as... at the speed limit... people can get really pissy and erratic. So you need to speed at least a bit to be safest, haha.
Anyway, needed to pass this guy. Starting from typical following distance, I changed lanes then floored it until I passed the other vehicle's mirrors. This was over the span of maybe 3 or 4 seconds, at most, mind. Lots of beautiful sounds and inertia pinning you back into your seat. But I looked down at my speedometer and saw I was doing 160-170km/h already. This was barely a few seconds flooring it, and a rolling/running start, in a sense. Had to slow down immediately - at that speed, getting pulled over is an instant roadside impounding and license suspension. Never mind if the roads are totally clear or not.
This was (is) a mostly stock 2015 S4 with a 0-60 time of about 4.9 seconds and an on-paper (and understated) ~333hp. Over the years, it's proven plenty fast and powerful enough for my needs, but you legitimately cannot enjoy most of the potential of cars like this, within the confines of the law. You use about a quarter of the speedometer throughout the car's life on the roads, lol.
You need to be on the track to safely and legally floor any kind of sporty car for any appreciable amount of time. Even a couple of seconds is sometimes enough to start breaking laws. Ripping from a stop at a set of lights would be considered stunt driving here, in Canada, too.
I'd love it if we had our own set of autobahns, that's for sure.
nokarmawhore@reddit
Me in my old ass 2014 Civic
danarchist@reddit
Slowest off the light:
Nissan Murano
Hyundai Santa Fe
Ford Edge
Fuckin sensible SUVs were the worst
8020GroundBeef@reddit
Mostly just whoever’s on their phones, I have a tough time generalizing any one type of car in terms of slowness/not paying attention to the light.
But in DFW, pickups and Nissan cars are always flooring it. Porsches are less likely to floor it than a pickup (except the pickups that are carrying 5000 pounds of carpet).
danarchist@reddit
I have no problem generalizing. These sensible SUV drivers leave with plenty of time to get to their destination because they're sensible. And the destination is just somewhere like the dentist for their quarterly cleaning or the recycling center to drop off old AA batteries because they're responsible, so they're not in a big hurry.
8020GroundBeef@reddit
I just don’t really see the same correlation that you do I guess. In my experience, just about any kind of car can be distracted / unreasonably slow.
I’ve been behind plenty of slow Chargers/Challengers, BMWs, and Porsches too. Sometimes the dude in the Equinox or Pacifica is hauling ass.
danarchist@reddit
I'm just riffing my man, you're clearly right.
fobbyk@reddit
I can assure you most of them floored their cars before. I drive slow on the road because the road isn’t fun at all.
dopadelic@reddit
To be fair, 300hp usually means a good torque band as well so the car feels responsive at low RPMs. Luxury cars usually come with powerful engines even though they're GT cruisers because that low end response adds to the overall driving experience.
juttep1@reddit
Well you're on a public road? Yeah these are for commuting safely, not pretending to be a race car.
Wanna accelerate fast? Go to a track. I'm just trying to get to work.
CaptainKrakrak@reddit
I’m also trying to get to work, I just want to get up to 60 without it taking over a minute because I’m behind someone with a twin turbo V8 that drives like my grandpa
RudderForADuck@reddit
Maybe you should learn how fuel consumption works
CaptainKrakrak@reddit
I don’t care about fuel consumption, my plug in hybrid does 3L/100KM even when driven hard
srsbsnssss@reddit
'me me me me me me me me me'
is all i read
CaptainKrakrak@reddit
Maybe you need reading lessons
srsbsnssss@reddit
maybe you need to look up who owns public roads
RudderForADuck@reddit
You completely missed the point my guy you already established that the people in front of you are driving TT V8s 🙄
juttep1@reddit
Oh great I can help you with that. Leave earlier.
Extra-Presence3196@reddit
You can get away with a lot more in a low hp car. Once you get something cops notice, the game changes. That's why those 300+ hp cars around you are often not busting out like you'd like them to...they are the ones who are going to get ticketed while you trail them.
CaptainKrakrak@reddit
Exactly! The other day I was following a Kia Stinger from a safe distance at 110mph, he was my decoy
imagen_leap@reddit
Nah the stinger was the canary.
morpowababy@reddit
This ^
One time I was in a hemi Jeep pissed off on my way to work, was hauling ass. Had a big group behind me keeping up. We pass a state trooper, he pulls out, guy in the back of the group gets pulled over. Rest of us continue on our merry way although I slowed down after that.
If you're the one behind you're the one getting pulled over, if you pull over. Which I would do but plenty of stories of that not being the best move in the end. I just don't want to gamble my life like that.
Extra-Presence3196@reddit
Yup. Never be on the end no matter what you drive and if folks are ducking in to the slow lane in a hurry, they are not making room for you...!!
Not worth it really.
morpowababy@reddit
I left my cars exhaust stock but it still gets pretty loud. Sometimes I'll be at like 30% pedal and it can seem like I'm being a little rowdy, and something like a Prius or Tesla next to me must think I'm really getting into it because they'll literally floor it and I'm just like yeah dude, I'm not going to "race" you. In the case of the Prius its because there's nothing to prove and in the case of the Tesla I have no hope against an AWD EV off the line lol
I'm often concerned the cops think I'm slamming it but I'm just normally accelerating to the limit.
Car is rated 485 hp but I'm N/A and at 5k elevation, for reference.
patinum@reddit
While true, I think most people don't know what real speed or acceleration is. They just drive around with 300hp like they would in a 150hp car except for the occasional passing or stop light race. Like truck owners that use the bed twice a year. It's more knowing you have it than actually applying it.
srsbsnssss@reddit
calm yo tits
Voltorbs_Anus@reddit
When you're already on 6 points, your driving style changes
CaptainKrakrak@reddit
I’ve been driving for more than 30 years, the last time I had a point on my license was in 2008 if I remember correctly. I’m not driving like a maniac, I’m just tired of car guys saying that you need a powerful engine or else your car is dangerously slow… while on the road nobody uses even half that power. You don’t even need 100hp to maintain a constant 80mph speed.
Few_Highlight1114@reddit
Thats me, but its easy to talk shit in your 140hp car because you flooring it doesnt do anything. Me flooring it can cause the car to go sideways.
Jack-of-the-Shadows@reddit
Seems like its too much of a car for you, gotta buy something less powerful that you can dare to acutally drive it.
Few_Highlight1114@reddit
Lmao bro if you are driving a car that has TC on, you arent "actually" driving it. Please, miss me with that shit.
CaptainKrakrak@reddit
I don’t think you understand what I’m trying to say. I’m tired of drivers and journalists spouting that a 140hp car is dog slow or even dangerous, when me with such a car has absolutely no problem not only keeping up with traffic, but even being frustrated that this traffic is full of cars and trucks that can do the 0-60 twice as fast as me but decide instead of taking twice the time.
I use 80 to 90% of my car’s power daily, and I’m stuck behind drivers talking shit about my car but that use maybe 30% of their car’s power.
neprietenos@reddit
Dog in nursing my mpg most the time and not trying to zoom for 3 seconds then be at the same speed as everyone else until the next light when we all end back up together 😅
lostboyz@reddit
Assuming you have an ICE car, accelerating quickly is more fuel efficient.
Zacsquidgy@reddit
In my car (180hp) that's anecdotally not at all the case - and its DSG has short gears that keep the revs low... how do you figure this?
lostboyz@reddit
it's just math honestly, you have the exact same pumping losses while making less power because you're not WOT. In other terms your pistons still move and make the same friction for every stroke but are doing less work which makes it less efficient. As far as actual driving habits, usually people who accelerate too much are also on their brakes a lot, but assuming you know how/when to coast, accelerating quickly and smoothly is the best always.
Zacsquidgy@reddit
Yeah all that makes sense, except when you factor in gears - optimising power delivery at each speed increment during acceleration. It's a balance between keeping revs low over a journey that might take a bit longer because you're at a slightly lower average speed... There's gotta be a tipping point where accelerating more quickly becomes detrimental - how quickly, Idfk. I doubt flooring it is where the threshold lies, though.
Jack-of-the-Shadows@reddit
Hey, they did floor it, at 1200rpm where you get 90hp.
Who floors their car a few 100 rpm below redline in traffic? Arseholes.
L8_2_PartE@reddit
That's after the 12 seconds it takes the first person in line to even realize the light is green.
Plazmatron44@reddit
People get spoiled, they also engage in dick measuring contests over things like horsepower, any good automotive journalist can drive a hypercar with 1000hp and then get into a 180hp mx5 and tell you they're both great to drive just in different ways.
Szymon_Sz@reddit
I would dare 'those people' to push the MX5 to the limit on a road with corners ;-) And I would ask again.
I also have an M240, which gets you up to 'straight to prison' speeds quickly and is almost no fun in corners. OTOH, it is very comfortable doing this :P
hughcifer-106103@reddit
How is an M240 no fun in corners?
Szymon_Sz@reddit
Almost :P It is just heavy, if you try lighter car, all this mass starts to be very noticeable. Especially on narrower smaller tracks.
-GenlyAI-@reddit
He can't drive
eroltam92@reddit
M240i is pretty fun on the track and it's fun enough at autocross i think.
It is no fun on street corners because i can't safely take every corner at 80+ mph. But it is very planted on highway sweepers at 120 ( in Mexico)
Ancient-Geologist522@reddit
Yes 300hp is a lot, it’s just very common now for cars to hit that number. The tune and gear ratios matter as does torque and weight of the car. A 5 second 0-60 car that can be tossed around is just as much if not more fun on the street than say a M3 or C63 AMG. Unless you are at the track, you can’t unleash the performance of a 600hp car. Straight line 0-60 isn’t everything.
RecommendationUsed31@reddit
I have a 2005 legacy gt with 310 hp and 300 torque. I'm happy with it
eclipselmfao@reddit
my standards are just a car with rwd, manual handbrake and 300-400hp 😂
Jaydenpk@reddit
I've driven fast cars making a lot of power. And I've driven fairly slow cars. 9/10 the lower HP cars are more fun. You can actually utilize all of the power. In the cars making more power I always had to hold back during a turn. On the line w hp cars I could usually throttle through a turn at high speeds.
Tho I will say on straight roads lower HP sucks. Those are the moments I wish I had a Corvette over a BRZ.
Jaydenpk@reddit
To add to this. Power to weight also makes a difference. Yes 300hp isn't really fast if your car weighs 3500+lbs. But if you weigh under 3000lbs that's a lot. For example my buddy had a 240sx that was gutted with a turbo KA. He was making about 320hp but the car weighs less than 2700lbs. That thing felt like a rocket. It could also get to pretty high speeds no problem. It would put my 23 BRZ to shame on the highway. And that's just with a turbo 4 cylinder. There are people doing LS swaps and JZ swaps making 600+HP. That doesn't even seem safe to drive. I'm sure it's scary AF.
PM_ME_UR_DECOLLETAGE@reddit
I used to be content with 0-60 in 5s. Now I do 0-60 in just over 3s and it is way more fun. But like all power upgrades, it eventually just feels normal after a while and you get spoiled by it.
Jusmon1108@reddit
99% of the time this statement comes from someone who either doesn’t care about cars or has never daily driven something with more than 300hp.
moops__@reddit
Some of the comments here are wild. My heavy ass Volvo XC40 dual motor has 400 hp and it is ridiculously quick for everyday use. 300 hp in something less heavy would be plenty quick and fun.
TP_Crisis_2020@reddit
Yup, trolls would say that about 500hp 4th gen f-bodies 20 years ago.
Jeeper675@reddit
I feel like the smoothness of cars these days have screwed how people gauge fast. Some pretty quick cars based on distance/time are so smooth that people will just say they aren't fast bc they don't have that "throw you back" feeling like some older cars seemed to offer or ones with really high TQ.
50iggles50@reddit
Go to any track day and see how Miatas do with around 100-170hp. Unless you are drag racing hp doesn’t mean shit.
ryencool@reddit
My new tesla has the base model 3, and it has around 300 has, and I sane torque. It scares my fiancee with how fast it is on the road. I will definitely get someth9ng faster someday, maybe the new upcoming Cayman EV. Most electric vehicles are just so much faster than ICE cars of equal price points.
I'm right there with you though 300hp is perfect doe the streets unless you're a car enthusiast and really WANT more.
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
Yeah, electric's another world. One of the big balancing factors, especially for small engines with high output like in the S2K, was the buildup you'd need to achieve power. Electric just... beats it straight up. It's like having a 100% lagless turbo.
ryencool@reddit
This! And man I was in high-school when the s2000 came out and would have loved to have owned one for a few years. That 9000rpm recline is just nuts. I just now prefer the ease of use and maintenance of an EV. Some friends that bought in 2018 have 60,000+ miles and have only had to replace tires and washer fluid. No belts, no broken hoses, pullies, injectors, spark plugs, head gaskets, radiators etc..I could go on and on...
Torsocut@reddit
Recently got my first 300 hp car. I love it. But on street roads or even twisty countryside roads, it is sooo underwhelming. You can never reach the stop speed if you follow the law or if there is traffic.
You accelerate fast, it's fun, but suddenly you have to kill the mood. It is frustrating. It made me understand what people meant driving slow cars fast is more enjoyable.
Anyway, I'm considering taking it to the local track, but I've never done it and I know it can get pricy (insurance, set of tyres, and such)
Agreeable_Speed9355@reddit
I agree 100%. I am an experienced driver. I drive a track car with ~250HP. I balk at the poor souls with more money than brains. I live near the motor city, and every week, I read about some stupid schmuck, often teens, who take their dad's hotrod for a joy ride and wrap it around a tree. This is tragic. Clearly, there is an element of compensating for something, as there is absolutely no need for engines like this, even for enthusiastic motorists.
Extra-Presence3196@reddit
You right.
Just lucky rich flexing beyond that.
And angry posts from them should we mere commoners not worship them as they deign properly..
throwaway5482936@reddit
All depends on the car. 300 hp in a 2000kg car/suv? Might as well be a commuter car. 300 hp Miata? Damn near would feel like a supercar. Generally anything sub 5 0-60 is pretty quick in my eyes and you’d be able to take a lot of actual “performance” cars off the line if you have the skill to drive it to its max.
blakk_russian@reddit
I definitely dust people sometimes in my 360hp f150 Coyote lol
Carter0108@reddit
Who's saying 300hp isn't a lot? Most cars on the road are between 90 and 150.
little_ezra_@reddit
Power to weight. Power to weight. Light car with 300hp is gonna be a lot faster than a car same power with 500lbs more weight
Legal-Estate-2748@reddit
300 horsepower is at best okay for a street car now. But let’s be real 300whp has been easily achievable for a while now. Once you drive something 5-800+ you get very numb to 300. With production cars now easily getting 500+ it puts into perspective (atleast for me) how slow 300 is. The main thing that you’re forgetting is that opinions are like assholes, everyone’s got one. Don’t let others convince you that your car is “too slow” if you don’t feel that it is. Not everyone needs 1000 to have fun, but if we are speaking objectively, 300 is in fact slow in today’s climate. Of course, HP is not all that is in the equation, transmission behavior and what type of diff (and gears inside) you have makes a lot of difference. My point is enjoy what you enjoy and don’t let others ruin it or talk you down, having a high HP car is a double edged sword. It’s not always super fast fun, a lot of the time it can turn into a money pit and constant repair.
Tormidal@reddit
Car culture in general has been brainrotted to think that fast = fun.
I have more fun in my Genesis Coupe and my BRZ than in my 911.
deezgiorno@reddit
Internet comments like these have been brainrotted to think that 12 years olds and clout chasers speak for the car community.
get off tiktok kid
Tormidal@reddit
Shows me you don't go out and interact with the car community - because that absolutely is an accurate generalization
deezgiorno@reddit
Is Wekfest not a car community event?
Tormidal@reddit
"I go to one event and that means I've seen the entire car community"
Lol
deezgiorno@reddit
i am not gonna name every event. your quote is hypocritical.
just bc you go to gas station meets with tiktokers doesn’t mean you can generalize the car community
Tormidal@reddit
Did I hit a nerve with you? You keep bringing up tiktok lol
deezgiorno@reddit
tiktok the leading attributor to brainrot
Maya-K@reddit
The first car I ever drove was an Aston Martin Vantage. It was a lot of fun, but in no way compares to my little 1960 Austin. It's got about 50hp and gets to 60 in 29 seconds, but I doubt I'll ever drive something more entertaining.
Fast cars make speed feel mundane. Slow cars will never do that.
AlwaysStayHumble@reddit
Is your RR more fun than both?
Tormidal@reddit
Based on that I put more miles on that than anything else, yes ;)
But really, theres very few sensations that feel as incredible as getting your knee down on a track day
srsbsnssss@reddit
i mean it's okay to have different opinions
why gatekeep that everyone's fun must be similar to your's
Big-Number-9854@reddit
To bring in a different perspective: In europe, most cars have 100-150hp - turbocharged, of course. To compare. I have driven a 150ps diesel (manual) and currently own a v6 mustang with 305 hp (automatic) - the skoda felt more punchy in some scenarios. Horsepower says NOTHING.
Oliver_Pepperoncini@reddit
300 WHP is plenty! My '66 mustang probably makes 160 wheel and my '77 mustang is lucky if it makes 50
Intelligent-Crew-558@reddit
I am currently renting a 23 Charger GT and I will agree, it's fun to drive. It's not RT fun, it's not Scat Pack Fun and it sure isn't Hellcat fun. I will finish by saying.. I have the same engine in my 2024 Pacifica. Wanna race?
tetsmon@reddit
Personally 300 isn't "a lot", but it's definitely "plenty" for a regular commuter car. I think beyond 350, the risk-to-fun would show diminishing returns for daily drivers.
I also feel the same about the "130hp" number, where below that the efficiency-to-practicality ratio starts to suffer.
Again, this is all with the average commuter car in mind. 350hp is probably not quite enough if you plan to haul a heavy RV with your truck, and 130 is likely plenty if you're into lightweight buggies and kei-cars.
daver456@reddit
People who live in places like Florida and Texas where there’s nothing but miles and miles of flat straight roads seem to be the ones who need 500+whp. Fair enough, got nothing to do other than highway pulls.
Traxonn@reddit
i've 100% noticed southern states like florida and texas have crazy powerful builds making 600+ hp. You're right on the flat roads, and why they need that power.
LilBigDripDip@reddit
FHP ain’t going to outrun itself lol
_BEER_@reddit
Living next to the holy grail of speeding (unrestricted Autobahn) going fast for a longer time gets boring for sure.
I'll take acceleration and cornering over raw HP anyday. Something light-ish with good tires and proper suspension is fun every single day you take it for a drive. No matter the destination or type of road.
Something like an F87 M2 hits the spot for me, great suspension, engine, gearbox and creature comforts. Somewhat economical as well.
Doing pulls in a proper straight line rocket is still fun as hell tho.
qwnjhutydjj@reddit
Drive the Chrysler Pacifica minivan. Less than 300 hp. Put it up against and older sports car and you will be amazed especially because it's a minivan. Then suckers are fast. It will blow your mind. Get the diablo tuner and then off the speed limiter and then have some fun.
foureighths@reddit
People who say that are usually only capable of driving in a straight line, at best.
navmaster@reddit
2021 camry xse v6 is underrated af
AutoBach@reddit
I will add fuel to your fire. As a former owner of a car with 600HP I can say that no car needs more than 600HP to do anything on the street and in fact, that level of power makes it less fun to drive anywhere but a racetrack.
DrinkSalad@reddit
300hp was a lot by older standards, say late 90s to early 2000s, but in today’s standards it’s about expected for your average Joe sports cars- 350z/370z, GR Corolla, Civic Type R, Golf R, etc.
I’ve also noticed that many people see “300hp” and will immediately correlate that with lower expectations. 300hp is a lot to anyone who’s not experienced with faster cars and imo is an amazing entry point for anyone’s first sports car. Honestly, 200hp is a safer range for a first timer.
There are many cars that come stock well over 300hp nowadays so it also just doesn’t feel as unique or special anymore. Most people that shit on 300hp are either inexperienced, don’t own a car, or have been in/own a way higher hp car and feel the need to announce the difference as if it were a bragging right.
In summary, 300hp is fast. Just not fast enough for some people. It’s also relative heavily to weight. A 300hp v6 charger isn’t going anywhere while a 300hp civic hatch is making moves, or god forbid a 300hp bike.
biggabenne@reddit
The trick is to match the power of the car with the amount of weight/grip/handling it can perform.
The 2004 VW R32 is a great example, it puts out 250 engine hp, about 220 awhp with mods. You can slam the throttle in the twisties and not worry about the tires spinning and causing a crash. Its more fun to drive slow cars fast than fast cars slow.
Tempromental@reddit
I remapped my 2013 Audi A5 3.0tdi coupe to 330bhp and 650nm and it feels rapid with the DSG gearbox, feels a lot faster than my old V8 4.2l S5 but that was manual. The V8 sounded better, but I get about 38mpg from the tdi rather than like 19 from the S5 lol
FrontAfternoon1466@reddit
You have clearly 100% never been to germany.... thats all i can say
LackingFunction@reddit
I have a 175 hp 3,000lb car, with a manual, and racing it is awesome🤣, the thing handles stupid af after $500 in the correct suspension and handling mods for fwd chassis dynamics, I daily it as well. Its cheap(ish), and an economy car, 27mpg, relatively easy to work on. Rides nice still. 0-60 in 8.5 seconds, and im working on a tune to maybe get a little more out of it. But who cares, momentum is your friend and you learn how to really drive! The looks I get after racing a grandpa mobiles heart out, screaming down the straight its great, and I get to hear it scream, if its not screaming and being maxed out, whats the fun🤷♂️.
connors69@reddit
My 2023 VW arteon has 300hp and it takes off. Being awd helps with that too. Most hp I’ve had in a car I’ve owned and I think it’s quite fast and very smooth.
November87@reddit
All hp becomes slow the more you drive it.
Nightryder88@reddit
I think it depends on the weight of the vehicle. My Mustang GT has 460hp but it’s huge. My buddies Audi S3 has about 300hp and it beats me off the line. I catch up in the 1/4 to win but the lighter car has way more of a throw you in your seat initially until the long legs of the coyote V8 catches up. 300hp is plenty for some vehicles. But if it were in my car or my wife’s SUV it’s not that much.
comeonyouspurs10@reddit
Gearing plays a part too. I had a 3.7 V6 Mustang, 300hp. On stock 3.15 gears it was slow af. Swapped out to 3.55s and it was much better. But tbh, it really needed 3.73 or 4.10. Ford put the 3.15 in it for fuel economy.
A lot of modern cars are geared way too long for fuel economy reasons. The IS500 should have much shorter gears. But Lexus geared it long for fuel economy and it kind of neuters the V8 a bit.
daedaluspcmr@reddit
I have a 67 mustang with 2.79 gearing and a mild 302 probably not making even 300 and it still breaks the tires loose at 20mph in first. And I’m running 275 NT05s on it
yourboydmcfarland@reddit
This.
Nobody understands horsepower doesn't matter for acceleration nearly as much as gear ratios.
However, in a sub full of dudes circle jerking over their horsepower, nobody wants to weiner measure rear end gears.
The_Bucket_Of_Truth@reddit
Depends on the metric and if we're talking about manuals. Tighter gears feels better for acceleration but may be slower in measured testing since you may be shifting more times. For new automatics and dual clutch cars it matters little. I remember the Evo VIII and IX for example were "faster" with the 5 speed base gearbox vs the 6 speed MR gearbox. But I think that was mostly just down to more interruption of power because you had to shift more times.
ajzn6@reddit
100%, Gearing and modern transmissions make a massive difference. I recently switched from an 21' STI to a 24" S3. The STI is lighter and more power on paper. But my butt dyno tells me the S3 would absolutely blow the doors off the STI, DSG 7sp vs Manual 6sp.
TaargusThePizzaBoy@reddit
I have the 2.73 gear in mine :(
I've run a couple low 5 second 0-60's but I disagree with OP. 300 HP, 5 second cars are not fast or anything special.
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
At least you get good MPG 🤷♂️
Wapiti__@reddit
I want high horsepower so the 5 sec 0-60 can be done while shifting at 2.5k instead of redline
lakefunOKC@reddit
OP, your 0-60, 5 second, 300hp vehicle, if transplanted into the 1970’s, or the 1980’s, would eat Chevelles, Challengers, TransAM’s, even corvettes of that era for lunch. None (few), were that fast, stock. They might catch you, but it would be at the end of a 1/4 mile race. Stop light to stop light, they’d have no chance.
GrandMarquisMark@reddit
It's a dick measuring contest, nothing else.
tomplace@reddit
300 wheel is 500 crank
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
Uh... no. Not really. For one, you can't accurately calculate that so universally... for another, it's closer to 350 crank.
tomplace@reddit
True but have you met Dodge 4WD
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
Thank the lord, no, I've had no disgrace to touch the spaghetti-waffle manufacturer's creations.
tomplace@reddit
Cried a in my Durango hellcat…..
baldw1n12345@reddit
Line up next to my V6 Camry 301hp blink blink woosh later homie
Oblipma@reddit
300 hp in a miata must feel glorious!
Yasserre@reddit
And here I am happy with my 90ch 1.6 car :)
ImportanceAmbitious9@reddit
It's the internet and people under 18 being showed by rich kids how 'average' something like 500-600-700hp is without ever having experienced it. 300hp is indeed way more than enough if you're not into racing or anything, even wrc2 rally cars 'only' have 285hp and they are rapid
leinadsey@reddit
Depends a little on what it’s mounted in, doesn’t it. 300 hp in a Cayenne is too little.
kuddlesworth9419@reddit
When you are no longer flooring it because the car is too fast to daily drive like that you are in a fast car in my opinion.
TO-Sports-fan@reddit
With electric cars and all these cheaper more powerful offerings, 300hp is indeed not a lot anymore. It’s way too easy to get 400+ out of pretty much any sports car these days. A $4000 335i will do 400 wheel no problem.
I also have 2 cars that make over 500 wheel (pure turbo n54 daily and a meth injected m4 track toy) and whenever I drive a 300hp 5 ish second car I am almost lulled to sleep. Those cars take 13-16 seconds to go from 100-200kph and I’m just no longer accustomed to those “slow” speeds when my daily driver is doing it around 7-10 seconds faster.
Sea_Confusion1085@reddit
Everyone should own a Miata for a while.
AssassinateMe@reddit
Not even a Miata, just a low HP beater you can really push at anytime. It's really a great experience
slapdashbr@reddit
I'm so looking forward to renting a kia soul soon.
Jack_Krauser@reddit
I drive my gf's Kia Soul a lot and it's honestly not even fun like a lot of 90's shitboxes were. The throttle sometimes takes multiple seconds to respond and the steering has no feedback at all. Even taking turns near the limit of traction, I felt nothing other than her angry glares.
Accomplished-Exit136@reddit
I owned a stripped manual soul. It was a good time
InstantLogic@reddit
I learned manual on a stock NA Miata, and I now have a built C7 Z06. I miss the usable power on the Miata.
JayBee58484@reddit
It's not for everyone pimp
Shaggy_stoner420@reddit
Or a Z
TakeitEasy6@reddit
Agreed! Do I wish my mainly stock NB had another 20 or 30 horses? Sure. Doesn't keep me from enjoying it, one bit. As it is, it's fun without being scary on the road, and I can drive it hard and fast as much as I want without too much worry. Now, if it had 300 HP, I'd be scared shitless of spinning it. Where's the fun in that!? Sports cars aren't about statistics, they're about feeling connected to your machine, pushing the boundaries of your skill as a driver, learning to be a better driver, and above all else, enjoyment. We as a community need to be telling kids who ask "I'm 17, my parents gave me $x, and I want a fast car with a ton of power, what should I get?" to learn what driving is really about in a car that's not trying too hard to impress anybody with numbers. Miata, Toyobaru, Boxster, Nissan Z, BMW Z or old 3-series, you know the ones.
dopadelic@reddit
econobox acceleration but yet so fun.
AssassinateMe@reddit
The econobox acceleration is part of what's makes it fun
dopadelic@reddit
drive a slow car fast
DETECTOR_AUTOMATRON@reddit
had a 2.5L-swapped miata. fucking blast
FreddyFazbearHar@reddit
My Golf only has 170hp, but it sure is fun. :)
BigMcWillis@reddit
It’s even better with a pocket medic and an overheal
SR70@reddit
Is also about the weight/size of the car. My 2020 4Runner has 270hp and is slow as fuck. My 2020 Miata has about 200hp with mods and is pretty quick and if I were to do FI to it then it would be down right fast at 270hp. Look at the whole care car as a recipe with all sorts of ingredients. HP is just one of many ingredients that make up the entire car.
Zina_1of@reddit
It's slow. My tesla does 4.3 s :P
MOOBALANCE@reddit
300 really ain’t that much in some cars. I have a 300hp v6 impala, and it moves pretty fast but it is not a “fun” or noticeably powerful car by any means
Destinii@reddit
Guess really depends on where you live, street and traffic conditions etc. A plaid in NA, while absurd is still fathomable compared to if it was in let's say Japan.
mr2jay@reddit
I mean that use to be quick back in the 90s when a bunch of cars were already doing that. Nowadays it's just regular for the most part.
Aromatic_Fail_1722@reddit
Currently driving the new limited manual Z4 M40i with about 380 hp, and it's a blast. Nowhere as fast as an M3 or RS4, but MAN is it good fun. Have not felt it being "too fast to enjoy" once, it just puts a giant smile on my face.
tangledisthebestfilm@reddit
Been hearing nothing but amazing things about that car. As an ND owner, the new manual Z4 seems like the next natual progression from a modem Miata. I want one so bad.
tangledisthebestfilm@reddit
Just now seeing I should probably update my flair, that was like 6 cars ago haha
vkolp@reddit
My boss has one of those and I have an F80 M3. He gave me the car to drive for some errands and I gotta say that thing is NO slouch!
DetectiveNarrow@reddit
First 300hp car I drove was a maxima and that’s when I learned 300 ain’t a joke. Watching my mom and dad drive it like a grandpa all the time I thought it was slow till I put my foot in it.
jws926@reddit
Why I enjoy my current gen Maxima, that 300hp, I would enjoy it a hell of a lot more if wasnt married to the CVT. It suffers from torque steer when trying to enjoy the 300hp though.
PoorMansTonyStark@reddit
Well you know, you're thinking it wrong. Whoever has got the biggest number wins!
Mobile_Yoghurt_2840@reddit
It is a ballsy car, try an s type Jaguar. Now that car is zippy and that has balls
kryndon@reddit
300 wheel is about where you're faster than 95% of all other cars on the road and quick enough to get yourself in trouble, tickets, but also overtake quite safely and not feel like you're a slouch.
Anything over 300 wheel is more about being "faster than that other guy who has a grudge", aka the other 2-3% of the modified cars around your town who want to race you.
All my cars are about 300 wheel and get sub 6 second 0-60. My Talon was the fastest since it was AWD, 4.5 seconds flat. I'm currently upgrading the turbos on the Legnum so that may even do 4 seconds in the right conditions.
xGsGt@reddit
300hp it's pretty good, I went from 100hp no turbo to a 190hp with turbo and that shit blew my mind, then after a few years I went for an S4 with 340hp and 4.5s car and I love it even more, I tune it to make it 400hp and make it a 4s car and it was really fun...
Now I have a 3.2s car with 550hp and let me tell you this really blows my fucking mind, the difference is huuuuuuge
But I do agree with you anything with 300hp is a fun car, heck even 190hp I would say it's really fun as well,
Enjoy your rides gents
13derps@reddit
It’s people driving automatics that want to be pushed back in their seat without downshifting
I remember being in high school and getting a ride in a ‘tuned’ Mazda wagon a friend was borrowing from a cousin. We were flying around the suburbs and the car felt plenty quick. After 15 minutes of that he mentioned the car had like 160hp wheel. He was just matting the gas and keeping the revs up
Adrien_Ravioli@reddit
I don’t get why would you need such amount of power. To go from lights to lights? In my view sensible amount of power is the one that you can fully use. I would be frustrated with car that has 250+ hp cause I would know I cannot control or use that amount of hp. Less power, less weight, more fun
AngryAlternateAcount@reddit
I like my <3000lb cars with whatever horsepower they have. The downhill is enough power for me.
dannyphoto@reddit
As others have stated, the internet has ruined a lot of people’s perception of speed and EVs have commoditized cheap speed.
My car has 350hp. Does 0-60 in 5 seconds and feels fucking fast. I’ve driven a good amount of supercars/super sports cars and they’re all awesome, but my car never feels slow.
0-60 in 5 is only slow on the internet.
Cute_War_@reddit
“Ferrari and Chevrolet” wow
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
Hey, that Camaro and new C8 are no joke.
SeaBreezy@reddit
You are dancing around what I think is one of the most fundamental concepts in introductory statistics. Namely, being able to compare/contrast 'absolute' levels/differences with 'relative' level/differences.
Living_Desk1763@reddit
I’ve had up to 700hp cars
300 hp is a lot depending on the weight
300HP charger? Nah 300HP Honda? Would beat an AMG
Fuckoalamazing@reddit
My dream car is any generation Porsche GT3 touring, when I mentioned this to a fellow ‘car enthousiast’ I got the ‘but for that money I’d rather spend it on a car with more than 500 hp and a faster 0-60’. I then realised that you can indeed look down on someone for their preference in cars.
nirach@reddit
I'm of the opinion that around 300 in a hatchback or smaller is the most you can really have fun with on public roads. Because they're not race tracks, and you shouldn't be hammering the limits of the car.
Track cars, well. Depending on what you're doing, more horses is probably necessary.
Look at all the drag racers with 1000, 2000, horses crammed under the bonnet to go a quarter of a mile. Wild, IMO kind of boring, but whatever gets their seats wet I guess.
gasolineforever110@reddit
300 is nothing. my daily is a mildly hopped up diesel and my toy is around 650 on methanol. Would like more turbo on the diesel and I'm currently figuring out nitrous for the toy. I'll find the time and the place to use it all whenever I feel like it. Try it it's fun.
legollama88@reddit
i love my 1999 z/28 idgaf what ppl think ab it that thing is stupid fast for a FBO LS1 in my opinion
KittyLitterpureblood@reddit
My Mercedes CL55 AMG SUPERCHARGED V8 493 HP it’s fun to drive and the power is great. Getting on the freeway or passing is such fun! My other car has 300 HP and feels slow. V8 needs lots of revs and the 7 speed auto to get out of its own way 550 SL Mercedes
Gman777@reddit
Just go back a couple of decades and 300hp was insanely powerful and fast.
Its all relative.
You can have an amazingly fun drive in a 230hp car (eg. BRZ/GR86) that feels like you’re in a racing cockpit and going fast when under the speed limit, or go around in an overpowered mustang that drives like a truck and feels like you’re sitting on a couch.
PunksOfChinepple@reddit
Horsepower isn't universal, ratio is. A Miata with 180 horsepower is HELLA FAST AND FUN, a Jeep grand wagoneer XL with 500hp is HELLA SAD AMD SLOW AND EMBARRASSING.
Soggy_Head_4889@reddit
I used to think this then went from an 06 mustang GT to a GT350 and yeah…300 ain’t shit lol.
cobrajet04@reddit
My wife's Buick Lacrosse with the 3.6 v6 is fast af. I think it's 310hp, but compared to trucks I've owned that thing is quick!
No-Session5955@reddit
I work at a custom and fabrication shop, the cars making over 400 wheel horsepower cost a lot to maintain and they’re always breaking shit.
DoNotEatMySoup@reddit
The people who are telling you 300hp is nothing drive 1. A six year old Mustang GT owned by the bank and financed at 15%+ or 2. An S2K their parents bought them
smegma-cheesecake@reddit
200+ hp is a lot if the car is under 2 tons. I drove Audi A6 with 204 hp and it felt quick but it’s a bit subjective
LilBigDripDip@reddit
I rode a 170hp motorcycle. That’s the sweet spot
dudes_indian@reddit
It's easy to pass judgement on the internet without having any real world experience. I went from a 70hp diesel hatchback to a 130hp Corolla sedan and it was a pleasant upgrade. Then further upgraded to a 250hp turbo forester and it's super fun. Sure it's not nimble and rolls all over the place, but I'm not carving corners daily, nor am I looking to set laptop times. I'm just looking to have a bit of fun on my daily commute and this is enough for that.
Norm-core needs to gain more popularity. Economy cars can be fun too if you're an enthusiast who cares about the mechanical aspects of the car rather than just the brand and image that it bestows on you.
snakeproof@reddit
Especially if you cram them into classic cars. r/corvairius
whit3lightning@reddit
I just want a manual Corolla S with coilovers and some cool wheels man..
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
Dude, same thing with my Fusion SE -> Sky RL -> Tuned Sky RL
Jumping from something like 150 to 230 to 300 (wheel hp) has felt insane, man. It's like unlocking the new game + of cars.
Timsmomshardsalami@reddit
4 tons is pretty heavy. 200 hp doesnt feel quick in a 4,000lb car
AssassinateMe@reddit
200+hp in a Capri make it an awesome ride
AwardImmediate720@reddit
And insane if it's 400 pounds.
Once you get into motorcycles cars of all stripes except hypercars are slow, at least in a straight line. 4 wheels does still corner better than 2.
LilBigDripDip@reddit
300wheel is slow dude. It gets very… boring after a while. It’s cool for “faster than a camry who doesn’t know we’re racing” driving. But it’s super boring. Especially if you’ve ridden a motorcycle or driven a faster car
xkmackx@reddit
I don't get it either. I've driven everything from 130hp to over 500hp and never had an issue. People need to learn how to drive.
EquivalentFun9380@reddit
300 hp is great, but 450-500 is the sweet spot.
triangular-wheat@reddit
i fucking love my sti because it’s quick (~315hp) but it sounds just so good so i can wind it out without speeding too much. i think 3-400hp is perfect for a lil light car
slapdashbr@reddit
depends on the game. DnD 5e? 300hp is a pretty challenging monster.
nalydpsycho@reddit
The problem with online discussions is everyone has different metrics.
If we are talking track car, 300 hp is lacking.
If we are talking city driving 300 hp is borderline over powered.
Rural driving can very greatly place to place. Mountains vs flat lands. Various local police priorities.
IndependentOwn1184@reddit
Absolutely more than adequate for what reasonable people need on a daily basis.
fckafrdjohnson@reddit
300 is just getting into the fun range but nothing crazy, you know it's going to grip and go no matter how hard you hit the gas, no skill needed and gets boring quick. My wife's SUV is 400 stock and every bit of it can be used easily, every day. My 700 hp car does take some care to drive but it is still plenty useable on the street, and you can easily find others in the same power range to play with just driving around.
BigAnxiousSteve@reddit
I've got 320ish in my CTS Coupe and it's plenty of fun for me.
I'm still looking for a V wagon or coupe, but that's another story .
TP_Crisis_2020@reddit
I daily a Northstar STS, and it is beyond plenty for getting around in traffic. I, too, wouuld love a V.. but I don't NEED all that power.
Zlautern@reddit
A "slower" v8 that sounds good is more fun to drive than a turbo 4 banger that has 300 hp and roasts tires. That said, the Golf R is fun and its around 300 hp and very enjoyable, but it sounds like an angry dishwasher.
csimonson@reddit
As some else said, weight matters. 300 HP in a Camaro is a whole hell of a lot different to 300 HP in a Miata.
Power to weight ratio is a much more accurate metric when talking about power.
UncleBensRacistRice@reddit
300hp in a miata seems like a good way to meet God
csimonson@reddit
At least you'd die with a smile on your face.
Murcielago311@reddit
250 is plenty if your car weighs 1500 lbs. My kit car is the only car I've ever owned where I've never thought how can I add a few more ponies?
csimonson@reddit
Just out of curiosity what engine are you using in your goblin? I'm building an sr20det powered Locost myself and haven't met anyone else in person with a kit car.
Murcielago311@reddit
It's the supercharged ecotec 2.0 from a cobalt.
musicmlwl@reddit
Nice! There’s a couple cobalts out here in Phoenix that routinely embarrass hellcats and AMG and M classes.
CloudsTasteGeometric@reddit
250 in a 1500 lb car sounds terrifying. I'd say 250 is plenty if your car weighs anywhere under 3000. Maybe 2500 if you're a stickler.
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
An older Camaro with 300 hp is still pretty zippy, in fairness. Newer, bulkier ones not so much, sadly. I'd love to see more of GM's 2.0T designs make cool, light sports cars... but unfortunately we never got a Chevrolet Solstice/Sky.
Mike804@reddit
To be fair the 2.0T Camaro makes 275hp and has a 0-60 of 5.5s, that's pretty zippy to most people. I own one and i like to think of it as a fat Miata in the best of ways lol, fun car overall.
NocturneZombie@reddit
Yep, my Elise has 350hp and nothing has kept up with me anywhere yet on my 4 years of ownership. But modern production cars mostly don't do power to weight because nearly every car on a lot is over 3,000lbs.
Extra-Presence3196@reddit
OP mentioned 5 second ramge cars
Shienvien@reddit
Well, it isn't a lot, as such. It's just fine for most purposes, though. Doesn't mean I won't like my 350-550 range, too. I'm not drag racing either way so the 0 to 100 is only vaguely relevant anyway, but the feel of something that's not even trying vs something that actually has to try on our highway ramps is definitely different.
Digital_Ark@reddit
Enjoy what you’ve got. In many ways, slow car fast beats fast car slow.
A high performance car you can barely use because of traffic is a bummer, or draws unwanted attention if you stand on it.
A hot-ish hatch you can enjoy while no one else even notices can be a joy.
HelloWuWu@reddit
300HP, while depending on the weight, is generally enough for most people.
I think electric cars with instant torque and pickup has upped expectations a bit.
pure_ice_tea@reddit
It is definitely quick, it's just a matter of using the quickness; the more spirited driving you do and the better you get at it, the more horsies you handle. Quite the drug
Other_Hearing_4091@reddit
I'm happy with my Swift Sport,even have money left over for weekend pizza
Snarkranger@reddit
The 250 hp and 320 lb/ft in my 3300-pound CX-30 Turbo makes it plenty quick for me. 0-60 in 5.8 is perfectly cromulent and having torque off idle in every gear is a game-changer for daily driving.
smashingcones@reddit
That's not bad at all for a CX-30!
My Tiguan does 0-60 in under 5 sec but the gearbox feels a bit sluggish for daily driving unless you're putting your foot down.
Snarkranger@reddit
It's too bad they never brought the R to the U.S.!
frankztn@reddit
I've driven the previous gen Mazda3, and I thought it was a great hot hatch! The way the power comes in off the line makes it feel faster than it is, then it falls off on the freeway from 60-80😂
chlronald@reddit
I agree I am driving the bigger variant with longer 0-60 but way enough HP to feel sporty (relative to a CUV) and I can count in one hand the time I have used the overdrive at the bottom of the pedal.
bigtin62@reddit
I prefer my classic GTO.
bigtin62@reddit
Who cares? The speed limit is 70 - 75. Where I live I can't get my GTO to 80 without heavy traffic.
daqq@reddit
I have less than 300 hp and I can manage 60 in 4.5 sec stock... and 3.8 on tune-only (~330hp). HP isn't the only factor ;)
ZoteTheMitey@reddit
My 2017 STI that I daily drove since 2021 was making 350 wheel after all the mods I did
I always felt it was more than enough
I traded for a 2022 WRX when the STI hit 90,000 miles, and I would say that while 350 is more than enough....270 is not!
Blers42@reddit
Why don’t you tune it? A couple grand will get you to 330whp and plenty go higher than that. The VB is very under tuned from the factory.
ZoteTheMitey@reddit
I have a warranty for 80,000 miles still
OpenJelly1437@reddit
300hp is a good balance.
But it is not a lot.
These days you can get used Tesla family sedans for 15k that can out accelerate most supercars,so speed has lost its value in a way.
Blers42@reddit
300hp with great handling is a lot of fun though. People focus too much on hp.
Solvablehail@reddit
I feel like I’m gonna hear this a lot when I do get a new car. I really wanna get a Hyundai Elantra N. Powerful enough to have fun but is still gonna be a great Daily Drive car. Right now anything is better than a 182 HP SUV I’m driving lol
AoF-Vagrant@reddit
My car has 190hp and I feel like it's too fast. Granted its electric & weighs slightly more than a Miata, but on a nice windy road it's already too fast to bury the throttle out of a turn without hitting unsafe speeds.
akotski1338@reddit
I’ve driven suvs with 300 hp and it feels kind of slow. Maybe that’s where it comes from
lord_luxx@reddit
My s5 has 350ish and it’s a blast to drive. Plenty quick enough to get in trouble and have a full faced smile on my ear while I row the gears.
My c63 had damn near 500 and it was also fun bc of my tires going brrrr and that glorious 6.2.
NOLA-J@reddit
Speed really is like a drug you build up a tolerance to.
RNMoFo@reddit
My son's Polestar Volvo has 321hp, I think. It is plenty fast and handles really well. I agree 300hp is good power. More is always better, but I would be happy with 300hp.
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Slow_LT1@reddit
People who say it isn't fast either don't own a car at all (and watch too much 1320video) or have surpassed that barrier and now want to be faster than they are while talking crap about those below them. I grew up my whole life in a racing family and got into an 8 second race car at 15 years old. When I hit 18 I came across and bought an old 93 fbody with a 350 in it. I think they made 275 crank from the factory. I modded it a little and eventually got it to 355 WHP. I had more fun and got more races with that car than my 8 second race car. I think the fastest it ran was a 12.02 but for those cars is pretty decent. And the best thing was I put all my money into the suspension so it would get traction on about any surface. It beat a lot of newer stuff just for that reason. Not everything has to be a 3000hp lambo to have fun. A trip to your local race track will show that a lot of people still have 12, 13, of even 14 second quarter mile cars. People just get too caught up in YouTube and the wow factor of new elite cars to realize there's that.
EternalMage321@reddit
I had a 2001 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP. It was supercharged and still only made 240hp. It put the power down well though because it was front wheel drive, so it felt fast, plus it had that supercharger WHHIIIINNNEEEE...
93ParkAvenueUltra@reddit
As someone who has driven sub 200 hp vehicles for the last decade. Getting my 93 park ave with 220 feels like a rocket ship. And I still drive like a grandpa acceleration wise. I don't get the desire for crazy horsepower out of cars. I can sit my butt on top of a 1L that's good for 160-170mph if speeds what I'm really after.
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NeighborhoodSolid128@reddit
Drive a 700 whp car and you’ll probably delete this
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
I've driven a Lamborghini before. Fucking stupid POS.
Local-Captain6562@reddit
Weight and fuel are more the issue at 300hp. A 3.5L V6 Honda Accord luxury will pick up speed but it guzzles fuel and weighs a lot. On the other hand my CLA45 2.0L turbo making 400HP uses barely any fuel at all in eco and has more power. It is also decently compact while still fitting my 6'4 ass. Personally believe this to be the best of both worlds.
Historical-Edge-7760@reddit
Ferrari and _____
Lamborghini❌
Chevrolet✅
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
Lamborghini is a brick company, Chevrolet is an art company.
shhhmokea1@reddit
Love my Lexus gs 400
QC-TheArchitect@reddit
I had a 200hp engine in a 2500lbs car (kl-ze v6 2.5L into a mazda mx-3), did exactly that, 0-100 kph in 5 sec. Man, for a 5000$ CAD car including complete swap (engine, parts, labor) nothing could beat it even at twice the price. Oh, and fuel ecenomy was great too, mind you. My subaru brz does 0-100 in about 6.3 seconds, I enjoy it even if its not 5 sec lol.
chris61210@reddit
Sounds like you’re trying to justify your terrible v6
augustusgrizzly@reddit
too many people don’t realize handling is what makes a car fun, not straight line speed.
K-J-C@reddit
Not supercar level (like the 90s to 00s 276hp JDM cars). But they're sportcar level.
Obviously Ferrari and Chevrolet (in nowadays Corvette and Camaro) make supercars.
ToxicEnderman00@reddit
Other than my short throw shifter my Challenger RT is bone stock. 375hp and 410ftlbs pushing 4100ish lbs and it's such a fun daily.
It has enough power to be fun and get into trouble (5.5ish 0-60 I think but who cares tbh) but little enough to actually be usable on the street with a decent set of budget tires. I can have fun and go full throttle whenever I want and not have to worry about traction. It just hooks, goes, and sounds great!
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
Hey, I'll say this much: the chase for more (sustainable) power is cool, but objective fast is still objective fast.
AR489@reddit
I think 200 is good and just about anything over 300 is too much for the street. Anything in that range and some good dynamics and you’re set.
Ayyyyylmaos@reddit
Yeah, you’re completely right. Koenigsegg and ford might make faster cars, but 300bhp is a hell of a lot, especially in something like a golf r
superiosity_@reddit
I mean...300hp isn't much if you're driving a sedan from the 60s. But in today's modern cars? It's plenty.
Filth-account@reddit
Well they say 200hp to 300hp is optimal power . Once you go beyond this it’s diminishing returns
ImFerr@reddit
I'd actually argue that power doesn't matter at the track either, unless you're talking drag strip. If you're in a sanctioned competition then yes power can matter but most series are classed anyways.
You're much better off pushing a slower car at the limit to find your own limits, rather than taking your hellcat and sending it straight into a barrier or not pushing it bc you're scared of that happening. If you're new you aren't pushing a 100hp car to it's fastest lap times let alone a 300hp car lol
fatitalianstallion@reddit
I dailied my trx for about 2 years at 922awhp. It’s really not “too much”, but the power can’t be used on the street without being grossly negligent or breaking certain traffic laws. Most every car is street able regardless of power unless it has a super aggressive cam. Stock it was around perfect as a daily at 702hp, but it’s also over 6,000lbs. Sweet spot in rwd would around 500 imo.
ForgedZer0@reddit
All really dependant on the weight. 2 tons with 300hp isn't all that nippy but sub 1500kgs < now that's where 300hp is enjoyable.
Ok_Energy_1983@reddit
Yeah ig its just us getting used to factory cars being made into complete rocket ships stock, and therefore if you dont have the same power you are frowned upon. I mean my truck has a 3.7 v6 and i still find myself grinning ear to ear when i send it
Ok_Energy_1983@reddit
3.5*
SPLICER21@reddit
As you get older, if you stay in cars, you learn that none of this shit matters now that finance has ruined the enthusiast sector. Quality, commitment to engineering, and money 4th is what made some of the coolest cars ever. Geniuses marketing the GMC HUMMER OMEGA EDITION don't understand that.
medicpainless@reddit
I have a 345HP (at the wheels) GTI. There’s not much on the road that it can’t either hang with or outrun. I think most people can’t wrap their head around power to weight ratio. Plus, Dodge will slap a Hellcat in anything and say “this makes 700hp” and in comparison, 300 doesn’t sound like much.
KingHauler@reddit
My challenger has 375hp, makes v8 noises, and has a 6 speed manual.
It's plenty fast. I can drive like a dick and have fun without immediately getting into felony territory.
bandley3@reddit
I’m tired of all of these people that claim that many cars are dangerously slow if they can’t break 6 seconds 0-60, especially when many of the people that have these powerful vehicles never seem to use much of the power they have available. One of my pet peeves is merging onto the freeway at less than the rate of traffic. I’ll zip to redline to get up to speed but I don’t know how many times I’ve been stuck behind an AMG or BMW ///M car puttering up the ramp, merging at 45 or 50. I also get a little nuts when someone in an obviously faster vehicle gets all butt-hurt when a little minivan dares to pass them.
I grew up in the ‘70s and ‘80s, and still use performance figures from those days as my benchmark. In ‘84 I bought a Rabbit GTI, a pretty quick and agile car in its day, with a 0-60 time of 9.7 seconds. A Porsche Turbo did 5.0. A larger Buick Turbo could do 7s and that felt quite quick. A Ferrari Mondial was good for 8.2, a whole tenth of a second faster than my current 6MT-equipped minivan. It’s fine. I’m not holding up traffic, I’m not a danger to anyone but the careless and reckless just because I choose to drive only 10% ABOVE the posted speed limit on the highway at times, but often faster (never in the #1 lane, of course). It’s not like the Budget rental van I used to move cross-country several years ago, where I was getting passed by semis in the slow truck lane. Its performance is perfect acceptable, especially combined with good brakes and surprisingly good handling for a vehicle in this class, and is always a good drive. Would I like it to be faster? Sure! Does it need to be faster? No, not really. People always seem to wanted bigger, better, faster, etc. and are not willing to accept something that is perfectly adequate for 99% of driving. If I had all six seats filled and a luggage carrier on the top I might not be saying the same thing, but it’s usually just me and I’m happy with it as it is.
A few years ago on a trip I rented a Mustang V6 convertible. I believe it had 315 HP, much more than the 175 and 225 HP 4.9s (a 302 is not five liters - sorry) that I grew up with. Yes, cars have gotten heavier over the years but 315 was more than enough, and I don’t really want to think about what another 100+ HP would feel like. Same thing goes with bikes. 600cc air-cooled with a half fairing was more than enough for me and I never had the desire for a liter bike (or more). I remember an old coworker talking about how we wanted to buy a GTR and when asked why he just quoted the 0-60 time. Yeah, that’s nice, but how often will up you use that, and how long will the vehicle last after a few brutal launches? I haven’t spoken to him in years so I don’t know if he ever got his GTR, but I’d be willing to bet that he probably got a dual-motor Tesla instead and did maybe half a dozen full-throttle launches before the novelty wore off.
A few years ago I borrowed my dad’s Volt, and found it to be almost the ideal vehicle, albeit a bit on the heavy side. The seamless torque and nearly limitless range was absolutely amazing. He has the luxury of charging off of solar panels at home, but if I had to I could easily live with the 50 MPG I got out of it when driving it for 250 miles in one day, and I drove it like any other vehicle and wasn’t a lane blocking eco-weenie. I love my manual transmissions, but in my opinion the best transmission is no transmission. Put that drivetrain into a minivan and I’d be in heaven.
meth_chicken@reddit
It’s more about power to weight ratio, not just power.
ktappe@reddit
I’m curious who says 300 hp isn’t a lot?
adrianbarrow@reddit
My Caliber SRT-4 has 285 and it is quick off the line (though the torque steer is absolutely horrible being a FWD) and could reach a decent top speed number if I had enough road.
OpenRaisin0419@reddit
300 bhp is the best for fun daily.
Gasstationdickpi11s@reddit
It’s all power to weight. A light sports car with 300hp is going to be quick but a fully loaded minivan that weighs 6000 lbs is not going to be quick at all. On top of all that the average TikTok car guy is going to tell you that everything is slow unless it’s a fully built Supra while they’re driving around in a Corolla.
Available_Walk@reddit
My daily driven car is likely faster than my project car by most metrics, gets better fuel economy, shifts gear quicker, etc etc and I absolutely could not care less.
It's a totally different experience.
THEREALCABEZAGRANDE@reddit
300 hp as a number is meaningless without the contextualization of weight. 300 hp in my 2200 lb MR2? Rocketship. 300 hp in a 5500 lb truck? Snail. As things get heavier, 300 hp is increasingly not enough to be fun. When the average car weight has crept up to like 3600 lbs, 300 really isn't enough to be considered quick any more. Now I will hear the case for 400 always being a lot. I haven't been in a 400 plus vehicle yet that I didn't consider quick. But there are plenty of heavier normal vehicles where 300 hp really doesn't feel like a lot.
MonkeyManJohannon@reddit
It also depends on what car it comes in…my 4Runner is approaching 300hp, and feels like an absolute dog in basically any performance category you could compare it at.
300hp in a smaller car, with less weight being thrown around? Can be downright fun. E46 M3 is basically perfect with just a pinch over 300hp.
Perspective is a big thing though, and I can understand why people might scoff at the number, especially with modern cars, because so many run of the mill vehicles also come with 300hp off the showroom floor. Hell, most minivans are right there now.
Lower_Kick268@reddit
300hp is plenty for most people
_dankystank_@reddit
Anything over 200 on the street is fun! Especially when that 200 goes thru a chain to one tire! 😁
n8roxit@reddit
I’m at 285 hp (2023 Hyundai Kona N) and I can pull a 0-60 at about 5.4 seconds. She’s quick and nimble with relatively good gas mileage when I keep my foot light. Honestly, where I live outside of Charlotte, NC, I really don’t need any more than that. With the traffic congestion and the reality that public roads aren’t designed like racetracks, I am already limited to relatively few opportunities to go flat out for very long or very far.
Everyday I see any manner of Corvettes, Porsches 911’s, Dodge Scatpacks/Hellcats, modified GR Supras, BMW M’s, etc, and while I’m certainly envious, I feel like I’m able to enjoy my car way more often than they can. They have all of that horsepower and, for the most part, it’s wasted.
lilcommie0fficial@reddit
People that care about numbers and wanna trash talk people's cars (which they don't even have) are the vocal minority here. If you actually own a car, 300-350 is plenty to be quick, but also easy to cruise.
If you own a car and you enjoy it, that's all that matters. Build what the hell you want. I'd never recommend posting to the internet if you are a person that can't handle the negative bs comments bc they're inevitable. Just be safe and avoid it.
TraviZ06@reddit
I think 300 in a modern car is plenty for a daily driver. But then I jump in my 500hp camaro and have a blast. Though I do miss the rocketship on the highway feeling of my turbo z06
dopil919@reddit
The internet has plagued the idea of power in a car. I absolutely agree. 300 horsepower can be horridly fast in the right car. As can 400 or 200. Anything over 500 is stupid fast for any sports car. The thing people don’t get is that there’s no point of having more power on paper when you’re never going to use it. When is 1000hp actually needed on public roads? And power is a spectrum because one of the thrilling experiences was in a little 500cc 1967 fiat 500 I was driving pushing it to 60mph. Shit was scary going that fast in that small of a car
Nobody_Front_end@reddit
In China, if you use 120 horsepower to the Max, you're the fastest car on the road
UPExodus@reddit
I'm from the UK, the majority of people I know haven't driven a 300hp+ car. And then when they've been in mine they refer to it as "fast as fuck". In passing comment they'll talk to me about cars they consider fast and say "well, not compared to yours".
Most average people do consider 300hp cars fast, it's only online neckbeards who think everything should be 1000hp or it's slow who don't.
frustrateddl@reddit
Yep. I have a '15 Acura TLX AWD with 290hp. That's not all going to rear wheels, so not great for burnouts, but it's a lot of fun.
Dry-Victory-1388@reddit
That is more than enough for any road. People generally haven't got a clue.
munhuu7@reddit
True bro I dont get 700hp daily drivers either
TheLoneWanderer08@reddit
I'm already happy with my 100 hp car. Power is more than enough and the fuel efficiency is amazing.
Pickledill02@reddit
I thought 300hp was fast when I got my truck, now it feels slow which is why I'm dropping a ls3 into my colorado
macoverdatum@reddit
My European ass finds anything above 150hp fast. Can’t blame me though, we don’t drive around in those 5000kg dumb ass pick-up trucks
BlackCatFurry@reddit
Another european here. Plenty content with my 116hp Seat Arona with a 1.0 liter turbo engine. I have never been in a situation with it where i hoped to have more power. The automatic dsg alone makes it faster than my old skoda fabia with 1.9L diesel manual. But then again my Arona weights probably half of what the average american car does...
dudeness-aberdeen@reddit
It is fine. Until you drive a car with 300 hp long enough. Then 4 something starts looking tasty.
frankztn@reddit
This is how I feel with my Q50 vs my Z, same HP, different weights and gearing. If I drive my Q50 long enough I'm longing for more, then I drive my Z and I'm like yeah, 300hp is enough.
UsedDish1546@reddit
300whp is not a lot. My Alfa Romeo 4C weight around 2200lbs. Pushing 300whp/350ftlb. It’s fun at slower speed. From 70-150mph its feel like a snail.
blackfarms@reddit
It's because most people have never been in anything quicker than a 16 sec car. They don't understand that it's a logarithmic scale of power to go from 16 sec to 14. The fact that anyone can go into a dealership and buy street cars that could beat a race car from the 80's is insane.
BlackCatFurry@reddit
300hp is a lot in my opinion.
Then again i have car with 116hp. (Although it only weights 2500lbs so not the heaviest car there is). It takes 10s to go 0-60, but so far i have always been plenty fast merging on a highway, even if that means flooring it in what the car calls sport mode. It has a dsg automatic and is not a hybrid, so there tends to be a second or so of empty when flooring, as the car suffles a few gears smaller gear in (if we are talikg highway merging and stuff), but it definitely springs to life after that.
What i care more, is that it's super quick and agile in basic city traffic, quick to get to the city speeds from stop and can slip between traffic quickly when turning. The car definitely has a lot more torque on low speeds and then high speeds (passing on highway etc) and the middle ground is a bit more lazy.
g3nerallycurious@reddit
As a person who had a 6 sec 0-60 car and a 3.5 sec 0-60 motorcycle, the difference is astonishing. 5 sec 0-60 is mildly fun; 3 sec 0-60 is gut in your stomach exhilarating, until you get used to it of course.
theoreticaljerk@reddit
300hp is only one small part of the equation. Car weight, gearing, torque and power curves are just some of the additional factors. 300hp in a Suburban is slow. 300hp in a Miata is a pretty wild ride.
Huge_Source1845@reddit
Shit even 200hp is a respectable amount in the grand scheme. I’ve got an old 6cylinder farm truck that MAYBE has 120hp. It’s all gearing.
DragunnReEx@reddit
Its crazy cu i was this way 2 years ago, now i just love all cars, got into it with a guy cuz he said a stinger is slow, i said dude that thing is plenty quick, nice, and will last you a good while, while being a rather decent size car
selrahc@reddit
It is a lot in a Caterham.
Maybe not as much in something that weighs multiple tons.
fukimretardet@reddit
300hp and 300 to the wheels is a very different thing.
Also two blinks is precisely 0.2-0.8 seconds, not 5 seconds. 5 seconds is a lot longer than you think lol.
pauperoncini@reddit
"precisely" coupled with a range containing an infinite number of values. I assume you didn't do too well in math?
fukimretardet@reddit
Thinking 0.2-0.8 is "infinite" is hilarious. It is quite literally a finite amount of values.
pauperoncini@reddit
There are? List them then.
fukimretardet@reddit
Define finite for me.
pauperoncini@reddit
I'm still waiting for you to enumerate the finite set of numbers.
badword4@reddit
It isnt a lot anymore, but you can definitely still have fun with it. People see these crazy numbers modern engines are capable of and scoff at anything else.
PickleFricker@reddit
What does 300 hp have to do with 0-60 in 5s? You're aware that the weight of the car is just as much of a factor, yeah? Weight varies a lot. Modern cars are heavy as fuck. 300 hp used to be a lot; in most cases today, it's not much.
Kaneshadow@reddit
As someone who's first two cars had a combined total of 230hp at the factory: 300hp is a lot.
My first fast car was a B5 S4, which was 250hp. Loved that lil guy.
versacevedo@reddit
my basis for power is, could it outrun pursuers / whoever if i needed to make a getaway? it’s not all about the engine, also what the driver can do
Smart-As-Duck@reddit
My car is the limit of useable power. It’s too quick on city streets.
300hp is the sweet spot where your car is actually quick and you can use it every day without getting in trouble
MotorcycleCar@reddit
As someone with a 300 hp car I honestly feel it's too much to go flat out or use everyday.I am going over the speed limit even on a highway if I go flat out from a stop for 5 seconds flat.
Smart-As-Duck@reddit
Yeah. I think you’re right on second thought.
I had a 2019 Civic Si before the Supra. 205hp/190tq and it was incredibly fun, especially with good tires.
Wuddntme@reddit
Yeah, I think I agree. I had a Viper with 400+ horsepower and tons of torque. Really it was overkill. I don’t have anything to prove anymore. I now have a Toyota with 295 HP and it’s perfectly fine. Now, on the other hand a had a DeLorean with 130HP and it was just horribly slow. 300 HP is the sweet spot.
mrybczyn@reddit
The "best" sportscar in the world, judged by people putting their money down, is the Ferrari 250GTO.
~300hp ~2200lbs.
It's the pounds that matters...
Briggs281707@reddit
300hp.in a 2 ton Cadillac isn't that much. 0-60 in 6.7seconds on a cold day
Novajesus@reddit
Isn't HP really a form of dick comparison that usually ends in your 40's? Then you buy a Wrangler and remember that driving can be fun at any speed. Or maybe that's just me.
thetallwoodsman@reddit
300hp used to be a lot but it's pretty average these days as far as performance goes.
As technology advances, so do 0-60 times.
500hp is the new 300hp.
420bIaze@reddit
Technology advances, but human biology stays the same.
The G-forces still feel the same as they did in the 1920s, and human reaction times are still the same.
I don't think more people getting 300+hp makes 300+hp any less significant to the driver, it still does the same stuff to the human body.
thetallwoodsman@reddit
I'm not sure what force on the body has to do with a 0-60 time or horsepower numbers. We weren't talking about that at all. The discussion is whether or not a 300hp car is considered fast anymore.
O-60 times, 60ft times, 1/8 mile times and 1/4 mile times.
Considering most sports cars come with over 400hp from factory and most super cars start around the 600-700hp mark... 300 HP is not a fast car anymore.
If you factor in power to weight ratios or a different kind of motor vehicle, sure.. 300 HP can be fast.
A 300hp bike would whoop a 500hp mustang.
420bIaze@reddit
Do you really need an explanation of how more horsepower or quicker acceleration, increases force experienced by the human within that vehicle?
I'm saying that my interpretation of fast is based on the sensory experience it gives to the people in the vehicle, not based on a relative comparison to other vehicles. Humans remain basically unchanged, so what is fast is also unchanging. Just because we invent even faster vehicles, doesn't make the existing vehicles any less exciting, dangerous, etc... the user experience remains the same, which is a feeling of going fast.
Extra-Presence3196@reddit
More like 4 seconds or less is the new 5 seconds.
thetallwoodsman@reddit
Either way 🤷♂️
OP is just sat he drives a slow Saturn.
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
LOL was waiting for this idiot comment.
300 whp, 350 wtq.
That's damn quick, pal-o-matic.
thetallwoodsman@reddit
Quick for a Saturn.... Slow for a car.
Come back when you've been in an actual fast car.
😴
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
You're on stupid sum'bitch, brother. I've driven from SL1 to Fusion to Firebird to some stupid fucking Lambo. You're the exact kind of fucktard I'm dissing with this post.
thetallwoodsman@reddit
You drive a saturn. Your opinion doesn't matter. Fucktard.
Vesploogie@reddit
My favorite engine ever was the M113 in my 2005 E500. 300 HP, 340 torque, naturally aspirated V8. The perfect amount of power, smooth, refined, available when you needed it, could hold its own at a red light, and it sat at like 1,700 rpm while cruising 80 on the highway.
You don’t need anything more than that.
toaster661@reddit
I have 180. I giggle every time i punch it on the on-ramp
TheGreenShitter@reddit
They're crazy 300hp has been a nice staple for a minute
tx_sancho@reddit
300 is nice, a subtle 450-500 is nicer. For daily purposes at least. 800+ is real noice 👌, but on an open runway.
Ok_Celebration_2560@reddit
I'm at about 320whp and 2950lbs curb weight and it's very quick. Will outrun most of what's on the road
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
Almost same here. ~3000lbs and 300whp + a great sound system feels absolutely boss.
Prhime@reddit
One thing to me is, modern cars with 300hp are pretty much exclusively turbo 4 cylinders. I dont like turbo 4 cylinders.
I'd rather have 180 Miata horsepower than 300 Golf R horsepower.
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
I can't relate. The turbo 4 just feels perfect to me. Like a small V8 when you want power and an efficient I4 when you're on the highway.
Prhime@reddit
What bothers me is you got no torque down low unless you are in boost (so 2 seconds of nothing and then suddenly way too much) and then you got no power at the top because torque peak is at 3000rpm.
So either youre flooring it or it just feels like an ecobox. Which I guess is what you like about them haha fair enough.
Also they mostly sound kinda shitty and Im a sucker for sound.
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
I think this is more a driving style difference than a characteristic of it. Assuming you have a relatively small, twin-scroll turbo, you can push into slight boost and ramp-up gradually, that way turbo lag gets mitigated in acceleration, but I understand what you mean. It's jarring if you don't want to work around it and I understand not wanting to work around it.
I think this is more down to people that drive them not choosing exhausts very well. Factory exhausts are too quiet and the straight-pipe method makes them sound like fart cannons. A nice, meaty exhaust with a great resonator and a loud, but existent muffler with a better-flowing cat can sound quite nice.
Jedi_mindTrick96@reddit
My 96 vette is plenty of fun. 6 speed, 330hp/340tq 3400 lbs. Faster then A LOT of traffic.
h_adl_ss@reddit
I "only" have 200 and barely know what to do with them. Yes it accelerates nicely out of corners but 2s later I have to be on the brakes again anyways. Although it is markedly more fun than the 130 I had in the car before.
So yeah: nobody needs more than 300hp
l5555l@reddit
They're thinking of 300 hp in a boat from the 70's or 80's. Not in a modern car with a modern transmission and tires and suspension. I'd bet 95% of drivers have never driven a car with 300 hp.
Dependent-Mix545@reddit
My dream car when I was a kid was a 2004 Subaru WRX STI 0-60 in 4.6 seconds. It was insanely fast for it's time keeping up with the a lot of super cars, Ferrari's, Lamborghini's, ect.. Pretty crazy cars are sub 3.0 0-60 now days. Anyone that says 5.0 0-60 is not fast, either doesn't know anything or just isn't really a car person.
Smart-Ferret-1826@reddit
Only because you said "a lot". No 300hp is not a lot. It's good, adequate, can be fun but not "a lot". "It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow". 300 is right in the middle of that. It's not fast or slow but can be fun.
drags_@reddit
Slow car fast is a dumb saying, fast car can also go fast and will be way more fun.
Smart-Ferret-1826@reddit
It's a quote from Top Gear and you fail to get the point.
Many-Screen-3698@reddit
Tell that to the 70’s
Smart-Ferret-1826@reddit
That's for the pointless nonsensical comment.
Vaeevictisss@reddit
Just based off what else is available on the market, let's be honest, no, 300 hp is not a lot. Fact.
That being said is it plenty for 95% percent of people out there? Absolutely.
RingReasonable@reddit
Me who thinks my 2005 Mitsubishi Outlander is fast for dying 0-100kmh in 7.7 sec :/
solo118@reddit
It is all about the weight of the car
225hp in an E46 was fun as hell, 300hp in a 5k pound car would be hell
MotorcycleCar@reddit
IDK, a new 5800 pound silverado 1500 zr2 with 305 hp is pretty quick looking at the quarter mile stats from car and driver.
Automatic-End-8256@reddit
Because pulling more g's feels better...
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
Fresh Uniroyal Power Paw 245/35/R18.
If that's not a grippy tire in your world... I think you might reside on planet drag strip.
Automatic-End-8256@reddit
That's an all-season tire lol get fuck outta here with that shit
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
It's still a really thick tire for the car's weight. It's plenty grippy, dude.
Yet another case of my post, just now with tires.
Automatic-End-8256@reddit
Thickness isn't the only thing that makes a good tire...
I wasnt even referencing your car, it was just an in general statment but since you want to go there yea 300 hp in a fwd car with 245 allseason is going to feel sketchy. You are at the limits of that chassis probably.
Also some people have differnece prferences of speed I have a 636cc motorcyle that only feels sorta fast anymore, some people get used to speed easier than others
Global_Ad7121@reddit
As I have gotten older I realized its more fun to drive a slow car like a fast car, and I am also too poor to afford a fast car.
NoMuffinForYou@reddit
I agree.
Went car shopping, initially looked at upgrading my BMW M235 Coupe to a M440 or M3 but just..... Didn't feel any value there. 300ish hp felt, on the street, exactly the same as 500hp except for 2s merging onto the highway. Same bmw interior, same eight speed auto, same feel overall.
Ended up buying a GR Corolla, objectively slower, but way more fun, feels faster with less power, more practical, huge tech upgrade, way cheaper to maintain and insure.
Golf R, wrx and CTR were same story. Did consider a tlx or IS350 for the more comfortable options and even then the only really palpable difference was the natural v6 in the IS.
While I really enjoy cool cars, I think, overall, cars are getting too big, too powerful and too heavy to be safe in most people's hands. I'd love to import an autozam AZ 1 but with new cars routinely being over 4000 if not 5000 lbs I think driving it would be terrifying.
Human_Ad_7244@reddit
I’ve mentioned this many times to people. Somewhere along the lines people got to be in such a hurry that having nearly 300 HP (293 in a Chrysler Van to be specific) in a minivan has become normal. I was discussing with someone that todays 300HP is yesterdays 200HP and todays 500HP is yesterday’s 300HP. Modern vehicles often reach 60MPH (96kph) in under 7.5 seconds and in 1999 that was still considered quick enough to be called spirited. Todays car magazines don’t think things are quick until your under the 5 second mark. Why are people all in such a hurry. My truck makes 450HP and I’m not sure I’ve ever gotten close to using it all. 🤣🤷🏻♂️
Gwolf4@reddit
The problem are... everyone, car culture from people that have the money to high performance cars, and mankids that have never driven something higher than their 1 liter engines.
Any sensible person will tell you that a Covertter C5 base of only 350 can be dangerous for people with 0 skills on driving performance cars, and the worst is that as a car feels so tamed you are not paying attention how fast you are going.
W4RP1G66@reddit
It's fast. It's just broke car boys that have never driven anything past 215hp that say 300 ain't it. It's plenty to get around in
bankruped_guy@reddit
More horsepower more initial even if not used entirely
MotorcycleCar@reddit
What???
MD4u_@reddit
My 1996 Toyota echo would leave all those cars in the dust. Sometimes too much is too much.
Ghost17088@reddit
I remember in the 90s and 00’s when 300 hp was THE benchmark. Cars that had more than that were either exotics or special edition/top trim variants. Now you can get almost 300 hp in a Camry.
VoodooChile76@reddit
Absolutely this. Hell the 5.0 mustang in 1992 had 225HP.
Civilianscum@reddit
Almost? Sir it HAS 300 and 1 hp!
MotorcycleCar@reddit
It is already way more than you can safely use on public roads.The first time I went full throttle in my mustang was passing someone on a 2 lane highway and after I finished passing I thought to myself that it had plenty of power and I would never need more. Well,I got used to the power within about 2 weeks BUT I still thought it had all the power I ever needed.That was over 4 years ago now and my opinion hasn't changed a single time as it still has more than enough power for me to use on the road.But power isn't about fun for me,I don't get the point in going 0-60 fast like my brother does in his modified golf r it just doesn't bring a smile to my face unlike his.I drive my cruze the vast majority of that time because although it is an economy car it truly has a superior fun factor to me ,from the suspension to the steering feel,the cruze is better than the mustang.
ifallallthetime@reddit
People are spoiled now.
300 whp at the turn of the century was killer
asmith1776@reddit
The vast majority of drivers probably couldn’t make use of much more than 200 hp.
People buy super cars because it’s fancy, not because they’ve exhausted the fun of slower cars.
MechanicalGroovester@reddit
Are people who don't understand power to weight.
300 HP on a 950 kg car with a good bit of practical aero, is a fucking ROCKET and I promise is beating most things in a 1 on 1 race around a track.
To me, it's all about power to weight and handling characteristics. (Which don't really come apparent until you drive the car 😅)
Internet and social media have ruined the perception of car building. If you're not making an over budgeted car with, $100,000 in parts, making 800+HP, or driving one of the mainstream JDM/EDM 90s/2000s cars, your shit is slow and boring. 😒
BasedCheeseSlice@reddit
Thought this was a pokémon post at first
Public_Enemy_No2@reddit
I think people expect higher HP from newer, technologically advanced engines.
I mean my 425 Nailhead in my 65 Riviera makes 360 HP and this was in 1965.
Scared_Brilliant6410@reddit
300hp really isn’t a lot compared to the weight of most modern cars. 300hp in a Miata is probably fun, but 300hp in a 2.5 ton SUV is completely different.
But people by stuff because they like it. It’s kind of like asking why people spend money on fine dining when you could make a sandwich at home.
nauticalfiesta@reddit
People need to drive cars from the 80s and 90s when a family car got a 91 hp I-4, or a pickups had 110 hp V6s. 300 hp is more than enough, and in 90% of situations you can't even use the extra power.
I'll take less horsepower and torque in exchange for better fuel economy.
Careless_Home_1460@reddit
300 horsepower is definitely enough. You can't use more than that on the street in most cars under 4,000 lbs. Unless you want to go to jail or kill somebody. People should supercharge their suspensions and tires. It's not how fast your car is that matters, it's how fast can you safely drive it.
errie_tholluxe@reddit
All through the '80s all we wanted was a 350 that got 350 horse and maybe 375 torque.
Now they have that in front wheel drive cars that are considered vehicles for new drivers. It's fucking insane.
It's no wonder American drivers have to have so many protections right up to and including airbags with higher pressure because so many Americans can't fucking drive and never bothered learning properly.
I7sReact_Return@reddit
What?
60HP is already a lot kkkkk
Chilling with a 1996 Fiesta CLX, with an 1.3 liter Endura engine
Awesome car
LordTiddlypusch@reddit
Idiots love to call anything that doesn't run under 11 seconds slow these days.
Shxcking@reddit
Some people don’t want to say “haha it’s not fast but it’s quick!”
yureku_the_potato@reddit
Me with my 88hp and 114hp cars: ^~^ Speed is one thing dude. What matters is how the car makes you FEEL. Do you feel happy when you drive it? Does it excite you when you take it out of the garage? Thats what matters to me. And my two little okdtimers definitely accomplish that
jawknee530i@reddit
My 90hp '91 Miata has never once felt too slow in day to day traffic for me. I can't imagine thinking 300 hp isn't a lot.
ycnz@reddit
Yeah. An actual racecar driver took me around the table in my S2k, and holy shit, it felt incredible. Like, genuinely would-pay-for-this exhilarating, and it was just the car I commute in. My driving skill is the limiting factor at the track, not the engine.
just_another_jabroni@reddit
Cable throttle and practically no rev hang helps a lot imo +manual. My 110hp shitbox with drive by wire is a drag sometimes because it feels so delayed. Meanwhile an older model with similar power but with cable throttle feels much more faster and responsive
EnvironmentalFoot238@reddit
I was just talking to my wife about this last night. When I was 16, which was like 2008, I had a 1995 mustang gt. It was a 5.0 liter V8, that was 215 horsepower stock. I had some bolt-ons which probably got it right around 250 or 260. That car felt fasted me back then. Now in hindsight, that was probably about a six second 0 to 60. Now I have a 2018 V6 camaro. Regardless of what everyone might think of a v6, it was $335 horsepower stock. I'm talking a 5-second flat zero to 60 mph. Which is pretty remarkable considering back in the day, V6 American cars weren't considered performance at all. Fast forward 6 months, it's right around 440 horsepower, very low boost. I've got less than $4,000 into the performance of this car. I say all this because, I would still say that 215 horsepower mustang GT I had was too much car for most people.
ycnz@reddit
As someone who takes a 250hp car to a track, the car is far faster than my abilities.
Thiscantbelegalcanit@reddit
I’ll never forget my first time experiencing 1000+hp. It’s unworldly fast. My initial thought (after catching my breath) was thinking that cars should not be allowed to be this quick.
thebeef111@reddit
I get your point, but cars weigh like, 1,000 lbs + more than they did 15-20 years ago. 300 hp isn't what it used to be. My cadillac cts with the extra large 3.6 in it (325 hp) from the crossovers is like, 6 seconds 0-60 since the thing weighs 3200 lbs with me in it.
e30jawn@reddit
Cars got way heavier. 300hp in a 2800lb car is much different than 300hp in a 4000lb car.
nucleartime@reddit
Eh? I only ever spin my tires if I do a full on launch control clutch dump. I've never managed to break traction just by hitting the throttle with my 365 whp.
jik002@reddit
It is a lot. I just “stepped up” in HP by going from a 2019 Volvo S60 T5 into a 2024 G70 3.3T Sport Prestige. You can definitely feel the jump from 250 HP to 365ish HP, especially with the sportier suspension and general dynamics of the car. In the mid range of acceleration, the up shifts in Sport+ mode give you a little jolt. If this is how a little over 4 seconds to 60 mph feels, I can’t begin to imagine how violent any car having double this power would be.
tykempster@reddit
I used to feel the same way…then I drove faster stuff. Yeah, you can mess up bigtime with 300hp. And 200hp even. But you can do it so much more fantastically with more power!
Overtaking with 500+hp is a completely different feel, without being horrendously reckless for example.
Frozencanuck69@reddit
300 HP is a lot in a 3k pound vehicle.
However I have 505hp in a 60k pound truck and it's pretty slow.
Almost like weight and acceleration are directly related
The_Crazy_Swede@reddit
My car is plenty fast enough, the dyno said 308 hp on the wheels. I have also done some to the handling so it is now an amazing handling little hatchback as well as being pretty quick.
And every time I drive it do I think to myself "who would ever need this much power?"
K3TtLek0Rn@reddit
I always remember the 350z I got as an 18 year old kid and how ridiculously fast that thing felt and it was just shy of 300hp. I’ve never really driven anything with more power than that so I can’t imagine people saying they need 500hp or more.
Podalirius@reddit
I'll never understand normie car-buying habits. People that don't give a shit about how they look or dress or give two fucks more than going A to B in a car, and they'll still piss and scream and spend 10k+ more than they have to for something that isn't a minivan.
aftonone@reddit
Yeah honestly 300 is really fun. I have 300whp in my SS and it's a blast.
Chaff5@reddit
People have lost the frame of reference to what makes a fast car. With dozens and dozens of super cars and hyper cars, people forget that just 30 years ago it was a feat of engineering to hit 200+ mph. Now a GT500 Mustang can do it. 300hp has become "affordable" so it's now "slow" as well.
OnceProudCDN@reddit
1985 5.0 Mustang was advertising/gloating a powerful engine with 290hp!!!
Barely_stupid@reddit
*210
OnceProudCDN@reddit
Right!!! Old memory lol
DeusMexMachina@reddit
For me, 300whp feels very slow and slightly boring. Is it "enough"? Absolutely. If we really get down to it, 200hp is "enough".
For a lot of us vehicles aren't just an appliance, they're an emotional experience. So what is enough in that case? I'd say its what you want.
I sold a 650whp M5 because it was absurd on the street, so I get what you're saying to a point, but still.
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
I never said "enough", I find cars to be emotional like that, too. I just think that 300 is a lot for smaller vehicles.
DeusMexMachina@reddit
I wasn't trying to imply you said enough, I put it in quotes because to me, it's an unknown quantity in that it depends on ones preference.
I get what you're saying, my counterpoint is that while historically a 5 second is decently quick, there's also an element of prior experience. I've had many cars over the years that are 3-4 second 0-60, and as a result a 5 second 0-60 doesn't feel quick to me at all.
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
👍 I understand. Thank you for the clarification :)
7eregrine@reddit
Good point. I hear it about my car. It's not a "Sport car"...pushing 330hp and 5.2 in 0-60.
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
Hey, the fastest person I ever saw on the local quarry road was an old Asian lady in an Acura SUV pushing probably 110 on a tiny, cracked road I was managing 80 on.
Your_mom_likes_BBC@reddit
Back in the day I had a 5.0 with 300 at the wheels and that thing was a fucking monster. I smashed on everybody that said they had 450.
I used to get dusted by Z06s and sport bikes, but it wasn’t like it is today with all these fucking four-cylinder sedans that make 400 horse and get 50 miles to the gallon
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
Turbocharging truly is the pinnacle of auto technology. Both efficiency and torque can come fro. The same motor.
NavBumba@reddit
One reason I suspect people think 300 isn’t much is the weight of modern cars. The Acura/Honda NSX Zanardi edition for example, has a faster 0-60 than the Nissan Maxima, despite having a bit less horsepower, much less torque, tested on 90s/00s tires (for the results I found), and a manual transmission instead of a CVT. Part of that is due to the mid engine rwd configuration, but i suspect more of that of that is due to the NSX being about 600 pounds lighter than the maxima.
When you’re thinking 90s and 2000s cars, 300 is a lot of horsepower. Today however, full sized sedans and SUVs are a lot heavier than they used to be, and that 300 doesn’t go as far as it would in a 90s civic or an NSX.
MisterxRager@reddit
Because I need that 500+ so I can total it and post the pics on instagram.
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
TRUE !! ✅️
Traditional_Yard5280@reddit
me with 110hp being completely alright with it. (i doubt it makes that much anymore, its old and needs work)
mbn8807@reddit
It’s more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow
LaunchEdition@reddit
Imo 300hp could most definitely feel like a lot in the right car. The weight and the distribution of weight has a lot to do with how a car feels, so a light 300hp car could be considered fast to a fucking heavy ass 300hp car. It’s all relative to what your perception of fast is and most people who think 300hp isn’t a lot would be terrified to ride in a 1500lb car with 300hp.
Occhrome@reddit
Some people will never be happy.
Give me any year Miata and it will put a smile on my face.
Ok-Parfait8675@reddit
I had a Jetta 20 some years ago with 200 some horsepower and I had so much fun with that thing.
rbalbontin@reddit
Yeah I have like 250 and feel faster than most people
kon---@reddit
Power to weight is routinely not factored.
The rest is monkey brained...fast is more. More is better. Better is best.
Ryanthelion1@reddit
One of the joys in owning a motorcycle I had a Monster 1200 with a torquey 1200cc v twin that thing in theory could do 0-60 in 3 seconds and would still pull past 100mph
SNAiLtrademark@reddit
Exactly! My truck has 400+HP, but is still slow, because it weighs over 3 tons.
lhturbo@reddit
TBH having 500hp and 0-60 in 6s in an 8k lb truck is crazy!
uniquelyavailable@reddit
power to weight is everything!
Drunken_Hamster@reddit
Until you get to high speeds, then it's power to drag. Not to mention handling feel and lateral grip.
yourboydmcfarland@reddit
But neither is gear ratio which is a better argument when it comes to overall feel of how quickly a car accelerates in real world driving.
It's why old guys always told you what rear end ratio their car had. Now, transmissions get more gears to the rear end is less relevant.
Drive a car from the 80s or 90s which was fairly modern but lacked number of transmission speeds and you'll see what it matters.
Dan_TheGreat@reddit
it’s just getting desensitized is all.
A Camry has 300hp now. When mom’s grocery getter can get down as well as old sports cars, the goal post is then moved.
The new fast or every day guy fast, is what’s a tier above that.
UrinationzNationz@reddit
Internet really ruined the perception of hp, and overall car performance. Most of the people who say that 300hp is slow dont even have a car themselves
Junkman3@reddit
I've got 450 HP from my camaro, my tires can't handle it. It's practically useless. Had a 99 Camaro with 325 HP, seemed just right for street driving.
windedtangent@reddit
300-350 is perfectly “fun” for public roads
lucatitoq@reddit
Yea, I think ppl forget that power to weight ratio is what matters more than just HP. I like small low power cars such as Miata’s because you can drive close to“the limit” at slower speeds which is still fun and safer than driving a 500hp car at the limit.
ColeYote@reddit
Previous generation of World Rally Championship cars got by on ~300hp just fine.
dumbname0192837465@reddit
In the right car 170 hp is a lot, people are just being ridiculous.
vehicularious@reddit
I’ve always enjoyed the range of about 220-300 hp in any medium sized car. It’s enough power to really enjoy at street legal speeds, and also it’s available in a ton of cars as completely stock. It’s also easily attainable for cars that need some modification to get there.
Chasing horsepower feels like a fool’s errand. My B8.5 Audi S4 allegedly makes around 330 hp and 330 lb-ft on a dyno, totally stock. The forums and Facebook groups for this car are chock full of posts about getting past 400, 500, and even 600 hp. And then things are always breaking, but every owner insists “I baby the car and change the oil early, these mods have nothing to do with the engine failure.”
This is my personal preference, of course. But 260 hp in a 3200 lb car is a nice sweet spot.
korpiz@reddit
To be fair, it’s a matter of scale. 300hp in a 5000lb SUV? meh. 300hp in a miata? Madness!
ThePrancingHorse94@reddit
A lot also depends on N/A vs forced induction. I know a lot of 2.0 diesels that will embarrass N/A 300hp off the line, and give the illusion of a lot of power to people.
CorCor1234@reddit
I thought the same as you until I got into motorcycles lol. 200hp/400lb piss missile makes 90% of cars look slow
Random_Introvert_42@reddit
Look up the "Ring Banana"
A 90hp Mazda MX5 Mk1, which puts down some blistering times. People tend to underestimate the effects of weight and how much power they actually use in their car.
Dunamivora@reddit
As someone with Tesla M3P and a Camaro with 425rwhp, 300 hp is not a lot for a car. My Traverse has that.
I've been in some 600+rwhp cars and you notice the difference.
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
Both of those are rather heavy to be making such an assertion, don't you think?
Dunamivora@reddit
Not when my Tesla M3P and Camaro will mop the floor with them all on an Autocross course. 😅
Dunamivora@reddit
That being said! My ~180hp Tiburon GT was a blast to drive even though it was slow.
LivingHighAndWise@reddit
It was a lot in the 80s and 90s. people get used to anything, and 300 HP just doesn't impress very many people anymore. My VW Arteon came stock with 300 hp and it did not impress me. I did do an aftermarket tune on it and bumped it up to 400 hp. NOW it moves pretty good..
therevolutionaryJB@reddit
Yea i mean my rx8 is like 190 hp to the wheels and a 6.5 0-60 and I still think it's quick 😂
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
Dude I will forever have a mouth agape for those things.
Crishien@reddit
I find my 170hp Mercedes real fun and zippy. First off the red light, easy overtakes on the highway, comfortable to drive. I don't need my car to try and kill me if my foot slips of the brakes. Also, I like my tires to survive at least a season. So yeah, I don't get the obsession either. I think people in general can't match the power numbers to real world performance and make assumptions.
SnooCompliments8770@reddit
My tuned 2022 WRX is perfect for me it will pop off a high 4 second 0-60 with ease but it’s still only 350hp car so it’s perfect for the street and honestly it’s fast enough to get anyone in to a lot of trouble no problem.
Higher_Math@reddit
If I could have had 300 horsepower in high-school, or even 200 I would have been amazed.
Mnudge@reddit
My 1984 Mustang 5.0 GT had like 180 HP and did 6.4. I could beat most any stock car off the line. It was fast and dangerous… for the time. Now, it’s not fit to get groceries.
It’s all relative.
Today, people are like anything over “5.0 0-60 is a mom car”
Car edgelords (let’s be real) now talk about sub 4 as being the threshold for being a car guy.
Now. What? We saw a 1.9 get announced with the 2025 Taycan?
Guess what, before long the new threshold for “serious car guys” will be straight up wormhole time travel.
WhoisMrO@reddit
Relatively quick.. if you're used to driving cars with 400+ your perspective will change faster than that 0-60 time.
brupzzz@reddit
300 was a lot. But I feel like now, 400 and up is what makes people actually smile genuinely while driving.
MarkVII88@reddit
This is all relative, no?
300HP in a small, hot hatchback or 2-seat roadster would be damn quick.
300HP in a full-size, quad-cab pickup truck would not knock anyone's socks off.
JEBariffic@reddit
I had a Camaro ZL1 1LE. 650 HP / torque. I could run down anything out with me on track days. But turn off the driver assists and I could barely keep it on the road. The assists cut power, so gotta wonder what the point is. I’m glad I was able to experience a “super car” in my time on this planet, but I gave it up for a JCW mini and have no regrets.
j79@reddit
Hah, agree. I've had cars in the 400-500HP over the years, but the car that's the most fun to drive is my Mini Cooper S. And as silly as it is, the "sports" button is a ton of fun.
No-Bodybuilder-9686@reddit
It’s more than HP. My 330hp G37xS is “fast” at its maximum potential, but at 3,800-something pounds, and only 270-lb/ft torque it is not much more than average in low-speed acceleration compared to modern FI engines.
I’ve driven some much faster cars like a C6 Z06, W205 C63s, 2nd Gen CTS-V, E92 M3, and some other modified cars.
Driving my car home after some of those made it feel slow forever, those cars were fast whenever and wherever. My car if you really want to go any it’s mandatory to drop a gear or two
7.0 LS7 in the Z06, the supercharged LSA for the CTS-V, and the Merc M177 4.0TT hot-vee V8 were all such incredible engines where that “on-demand” power made the experience amazing.
Ste0803@reddit
I believe that 300bhp is the sweet spot for the UK roads in a modern car but I’ve had numerous cars in the past with more power, 500bhp RWD and 700bhp AWD and it’s nice to have the power but totally isn’t necessary but I always find myself wanting more.
daveinthe6@reddit
my favorite car growing up was 190hp and tons of fun.
Actual_Percentage385@reddit
A decade ago a 5 second 0-60mph used to be super car times
coco16778@reddit
my car has 60hp lmao. If 300 isn't a lot idk what mine is.
ribrooks13@reddit
It depends. Like a 300hp car that's ~3,000lbs is fast asf but that at around ~4,000lbs at shit.
Also like for daily driving it's absolutely plenty to have fun in. Unless you're racing or something you really don't need much more.
I have a G37 with some mods that's probably around 350 crank hp and I'm just mashing the pedal harder away from breaking the law.
Whythehellnot41@reddit
it doesnt FEEL fast. Speed is relative. if you have ever owner a Tesla / c8 corvette / audi awd .. 300hp with what cars weigh doesnt FEEL fast. 0-60 in 5 is still fast, but the feeling is vastly different.
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
Meh, I'll always be into small, low, and light cars, so 300 is fine for what I like.
Seriously, sedans feel so high and wobbly to me. I don't get how anyone drives them.
Whythehellnot41@reddit
depends on the sedan I guess. blackwing will out handle a lot bmw and audi coupes
b00st3d@reddit
I assume the people who say that 300hp isn’t a lot are the type to track their cars, or at least drive illegally fast on public roads.
AssassinateMe@reddit
Yeah, and said people are probably competing against others who have way more than 300hp
Dirtyace@reddit
0-60 in 5 seconds is fast, until you start spending time in cars that do it in 3, then 5 feels like your standing still lol.
Puppysmasher@reddit
The issue I take with 0-60 arguments is that in the real world street driving nobody is launching their cars on the regular with the additional wear and tear on the drive train.
This is doubly true with manuals, nobody is hammering their clutch to hit that time every pull.
Journalists don’t own the cars and can praise the 0-60 while beating the absolute shit out the press cars. But when it’s your own baby very few people are going to drive like that to hit under 5 seconds on the regular (EVs excluded)
Dirtyace@reddit
I literally launch my Trackhawk on the 2 step several times a day when I drive it.
Same with my 392.
When I had a viper and hellcat I was doing tires every 3-5k miles. I absolutely use all the power every day. I have lots of roads and opportunities to open my stuff up safely so I do…..
Puppysmasher@reddit
There are always exceptions to everything, how many average consumers or even enthusiasts do you think are doing tires every 3-5K miles??
Dirtyace@reddit
I think anyone in r/cars who actively posts probably uses their car to its ability much more than the other 99% of consumers.
ShadowGLI@reddit
300hp in a suburban is not terribly impressive. (6,000lbs)
300hp in a GTI is a really fun car. (3000lbs)
Power to weight ratio makes a fun car. 100hp/1000lbs (~500kg) is the tipping point. More than that it starts getting peppy for the most part.
Material-Indication1@reddit
My '16 Mazda6 stick with 300hp would be very amusing.
HideYourWifeAndKids@reddit
I have 350 and it's hella fast
kingzeta@reddit
"Have you ever even seen 300 horses?"
ritchie70@reddit
It doesn’t seem like a lot anymore because you can buy a V6 Camry with 300 hp.
kosanovskiy@reddit
It's not that 300 isn't a lot, but HP-power per weight is not a lot. A 2.5k lb car will feel much different than a 3.5k lb car with 300 LB. Back in the day 300 hp was great due to the simplicity and lightness. Now you need to be at 350-375 to feel the same thing as cars got more bulky and heavy.
PeanutButterPenguins@reddit
Agreed. My 370Z with aftermarket intakes, otherwise stock, has plenty of power. I don’t need more, the car is fun as it is.
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
Hey, didn't I meet you at a Waffle House or something?
If not, some kid saying about the same as you had a very fun time getting a waffle at 11 PM lol
PeanutButterPenguins@reddit
Lmao, while that DOES sound like me, it definitely wasn’t.
spongebob_meth@reddit
because there is a whole world of vehicles that accelerate faster than a toyota camry.
basshed8@reddit
Depends. 300hp on my gilig city bus isn’t much but it’s a lot in a Miata
mmbc168@reddit
My Ioniq 5 has 320HP and I always like to think about it used to take a Ferrari V12 to get that kind of horsepower.
doughball27@reddit
when i hear people say 300 hp isn't a lot, i just laugh. the fact that there are camrys out there with 300 hp, 200 of which will never get used, just proves that point further.
Pattern_Is_Movement@reddit
and here my dream car is a Lotus elise with 190hp
TurboFucked@reddit
I donno. I went from a car that does 0-60 in about 5.2 and ran a 13.8@102 quarter mile to one that does 60 in about 4.2 and ran a quarter mile of 12.5@117. The faster car is way more fun.
It also matters what the car is. Balance is key. A Rav4 Prime is in that 5s 0-60 range, but it's not a very enjoyable acceleration experience because the chassis can't really handle the power. It doesn't turn or stop very well.
It works the other way too. Something like a V6 Camaro is less fun because the chassis is much better than the engine. So you can just wail on it and the car is planted. It lacks that balance between power and chassis capability, which the SS solves.
I know it's unpopular to say, but I think driving a fast car below its capability is more fun than driving a slow car as hard as possible. If you have a Camaro SS and decide to use 3rd instead of 2nd while going down some back roads, you'll have the same experience, but you'll never be able to get that brutal acceleration when you want it from the V6.
It turns out, you're skills can grow to fill the car you have. And the more capable the car, the most capable of a driver you can become with it. Also, managing gear changes on a track is a bit of a challenge when you first start out, so having more engine can help with learning a new track, since you can leave it in a higher gear and not worry about the car being a dog out of the corners.
DDGSXR504@reddit
300hp to the wheels is good. 300hp to the crank is not
Talbot_Horizon@reddit
I'd say my 75hp Volkswagen is pretty zippy. It's not fast. But pretty quick for what it is. It's the more powerful 1.6 after all. The 1.4 60hp is the standard engine.
300hp sounds almost scary. I think of 1960s muscle cars when I hear 300hp. Those things are beasts. Anywhere from 125hp to 200hp will always be a fast car in my book. Depends on the weight a bit of course.
1982 VW Passat Diesel 1.6 with 54hp. Now that's a slow car.
Car-Four@reddit
You need to stop listening/talking to kids in the YouTube comment section mate.
IAmTaka_VG@reddit
I mean I get his take. My Honda pilot has 300 hp and does 0-60 in about 7 seconds. I had a friend say that’s super slow.
Like bro, it’s a 5000lb brick and it’s going WELL under 10 seconds.
kaihong@reddit
I actually get the same toxicity from the white-haired ~~boomer~~ Corvette guys.
admimistrator@reddit
It's all relative to size. I drove a Ford Expedition EL with 310 HP and it felt pretty slow. 300 HP in a sports car is a different story, though. That's quick. My Mazdaspeed has ~210hp at the wheels which is plenty fast and I've never felt the need for more
Rabo_McDongleberry@reddit
I wanna blame car journalists for this one. I've seen so many reviews of shit where they give you the 0-60 of something that is irrelevant. My mom doesn't give a shit if her Honda Odyssey can do 0-60 in 7 seconds or how it handles around your stupid cones.
I think car tests should be based on the reason for that car's existence. Not some arbitrary bullshit.
AFB27@reddit
300 HP is my minimum, and to be honest, some of those turbo 4s in the 250 range get the job done quite nicely for me.
I just don't want to be in a 4 cylinder car (again) that just feels like it's gasping for air and struggling to push the car along, I need that strength.
Quaiche@reddit
300hp in a 2 ton car ? Not that fast but still quite fast.
300hp in a 1ton car ? This is fast.
Anyway what really matters is how much you’re enjoying it, not that you’re faster of some cars or whatsoever,you’re not a racer.
bmessina@reddit
My daily is 350hp out of a 6 liter V8, but it’s a 2-ton sedan. Very torquey, the thing feels fast as hell off the line. I can’t imagine driving something much faster on the street.
Vhozite@reddit
I want a Caprice so fucking bad one of my favorite cars
You had any trouble with lifter failures or DOD?
bmessina@reddit
ding ding ding
I’ve had it for 4 years, it’s at 80k now, no DOD issues. I tuned it out with HPT pretty early. I do plan on deleting it entirely next year. Stock style cam, gonna save my money for a manual swap.
Jodaa_G0D@reddit
I've got a boosted 700hp C7 vette - it's streetable, but you're not using more than half of the throttle otherwise you're at 90 before you know it wiggling all the way to 90.
theAshleyRouge@reddit
I think the context on this matters more than the statement itself. For some vehicles, 300hp isn’t a lot. For others, it’s a ton. For a little coupe that weighs 2000-2500 lbs, 300hp would make that car quite fast. For a base model “muscle” car, (think challenger or Camaro), 300hp is about the starting point. For a full size, third row SUV that weighs 5500-6000lbs, 300hp isn’t much. For a modern, high performance sports car, 300hp is practically nothing.
Mike15321@reddit
It's all about what you're used to and what you've experienced. My first car was a 268 hp V6. Traded in for a 15 Mustang GT with a 435hp V8. That felt fast...for a little while. Then I got used to it. I won't say it felt slow* but it certainly stopped feeling fast. Traded that in for my Z06 which is considerably faster. It still feels fast anytime I do a 1st and 2nd gear pull, but after 5 years, it doesn't feel as fast anymore either.
300hp or 5s 0-60 is objectively pretty quick I guess, especially considering the whole spectrum of slow to fast cars. But, I daily a car with more than 2x the hp and 2s faster 0-60. 300hp wouldn't feel fast to me anymore.
vkolp@reddit
300 is decent power to have fun but for me personally it’s not enough. I actually (conveniently) went from a 300hp whp car to 400 to 500 right now, and I’d say 500 is the absolute sweet spot. I actually had it even higher (around 575) but I ended up detuning it (something I NEVER thought I’d do as I was on a relentless, never ending pursuit of power) because close to 600 was absolutely demonic and unnecessary. 500 on the other hand really puts you in your seat, and that kind of torque is something I yearn for when driving. 300 is quick, sure, and for backroads driving it’s more than enough, but I can’t live without some straight line speed. Just my $ .02!
TangoInTheBuffalo@reddit
Only drive in straight lines.
sleepyguy007@reddit
I agree that 300 hp is a lot.... for your typical say 3500 -4000lb cuv/sedan these days thats about 0-60 in 5.5-6 seconds.
I've had several cars in the 250-300 range and its absolutely fine. That said, 250-300 hp in say a NA v6 with an old transmission and say having to wind it up to 7000 rpm to get that (in say an older toyota / honda etc) vs todays 250-300 hp 2.0turbo with massive torque and a modern transmission is a huge difference.
WillNotFightInWW3@reddit
My daily must have 365 horsepower minimum. One pony for every day of the year.
toweliel@reddit
For me 230-260hp is totally enough.
SnootyBoopSnoot@reddit
The Lancia 037, Ferrari 308, and Lamborghini Miura all produced 250-350bhp and no-ones calling them slow
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
For real! It's like these people saying this have like, fried dopamine receptors, or something?
pHNPK@reddit
I have a 300 hp v8 northstar cadillac eldorado with an anemic 4 speed and front wheel drive, 300 hp isn't a good metric on its own. Something like a 300 hp v6 pentastar charger with the zf 8 speed would be a totally different car, let alone the optional v8.
Rillist@reddit
I hospitalized myself with 148hp.
Its not the size of the dog in the fight, so to speak
nujabes02@reddit
u/HAKX5 my car is slow as fuck . If it’s not 500hp minimum it’s slow as fuck these days
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
Bah! That's new age talk! Drown that out with the glorious noise of burning dinosaurs, NOW!
Whiskeypants17@reddit
I agree that today 300hp is a magic middle number. More and you get into dedicated sports car territory, less and you get into standard commuter car territory.
I mean, sure the classic 60s muscle cars like the camaro and mustangs did 0-60 in 5.3 seconds...the 69 corvette with the 427 big block with 380hp and the dodge charger with the 426 hemi with 425hp did it in 4.7 second range. The gto and the cobras were in the 4.5 range.... they were the high hp FAST sports cars of their day... and so it shouldn't be a surprise that 60 years later performence oriented cars like a mustang gt can do it in 4 seconds flat, and the Shelby gt500 version can do it in 3.3 seconds.... so to your point 👉 lots of "fast" versions of commuter cars NOW hit 300hp and 5 seconds. Wrx sti, civic type r, mini cooper jcw, trd camry.... and lots of "slow" versions of sports cars hit that same line too.... Mustang ecoboost 4 cyl, camaro 4 cyl, most entry level bmws, etc etc.
5 seconds is absolutely quick enough for most and blistering fast for prius drivers used to 10 second runs... but not the group that wants dedicated sports cars. That group even 60 years ago was in the 4 second range from the factory.
Panaginiptayo@reddit
Im happy with my 6 sec 0-60 2017 V6 charger, to me thats quick having come from a 2003 Toyota avalon. Some of my friends whose driven lower powered cars says mine is fast, i supposed its all from perspective.
daveypaul40@reddit
Modern v6s are 300hp out of the box. Cars didn't used to come with those numbers. Is it a lot? No. Can it be plenty of fun? Absolutely.
anomalous_cowherd@reddit
I drive a 300bhp sleeper estate (wagon) in the UK. It's not really worth it. Accelerating is nice but you can't really do more than a quick whoosh to get you up to speed because a couple of seconds at full throttle takes you from a gentle cruise to losing your licence speed.
My next car will be something small that handles really well at lower speeds.
Thicccchungus@reddit
Dude I’m still chillin with maybe 200 wheel if I’m lucky and a 7s+ 0-60 and I think it’s plenty fast. People can keep coping, but you really, REALLY don’t need power or speed to have fun. It’s the reason Miata’s are so damn popular and the same for stock E36 and E46s.
ahirebet@reddit
I used to have a 300hp BMW 335i. Now I have a 164hp Fiat 124 Spider. Both RWD, both 6spd manual. The latter is by far more fun. I regularly get to hoon it at much more legal speeds.
If you want to have fun, don't drive a fast car, drive a slow car fast!
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
I actually disagree a bit. I think having the longevity of an engine made to make a lot of power being used for typical operation combined with the occasional hell-raising ends up making for a cool middle ground where you need not drive slow or fast, just being able to actively have a say at a moment's notice whether you like speed or want to sail smooth.
ahirebet@reddit
I drive it almost exclusively for pleasure, so I guess I'm less concerned about "typical operation"
reddit2bitcollector@reddit
The same kind of people that post here and like to magazine race? Cry when an specific sports car didn't sell but don't buy new cars when they are available? (Don't beat me up, this is all in jest)
YT-Red5oh@reddit
The thing with power is that you get used to it and always want more. Do you need it? No. It’s a want.
I started with 200HP car then got 2006 mustang GT with 300 hp. It was stupid fast for me and like you I questioned why do you even need more hp.
Then I got 2019 GT with 460 HP and that was stupid fast up until recently it’s getting “boring” and now I’m looking at superchargers….
Recently drove a G37 with 332 HP and it felt “slow” even though there was a time I found 300 HP to be fast.
300 hp is plenty fast and has respectable 0 to 60. People saying 300 HP is slow have probably moved up to high hp cars where 300 is nothing to be excited about.
I’d still rock a 300 hp car and to say it’s slow is not fair. It may feel slow compared to a high hp car but 300 hp is still a respectable number.
Styrak@reddit
Your point makes 0 sense without also the vehicle weight taken into consideration.
thiswho@reddit
my 944S has 180hp and feels fast
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
Heck yeah! Those old Porsches rock!
thiswho@reddit
thanks! ha leaks some oil but is a blast!
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
Minor L gets counteracted by that freaking awesome chassis design. Still a huge win.
onetwentytwo_1-8@reddit
It don’t matter if you win by an inch or a mile…winning is winning.
Purple_Herman@reddit
Yeah it's zippy but I can't even spin the tires in the rain.
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
In fairness, yours splits power between four wheels, most only do it to 2.
Purple_Herman@reddit
Yeah it's awesome :)
illlojik@reddit
I blame cartuber culture. Every reviewer reviews almost every car as if they are in the same category. "This Honda Odyssey will only edge out a 0-60 of 8 seconds. The suspension could be stiffer when rounding the track since there's a lot of lean."
vt8919@reddit
Heck, my 204-hp CR-V is blazing compared to every car I had before it.
YONAKA_AMBER@reddit
My Tucson have 161 HP and when i put it on Sport Mode feels fast. Not fast like a Mustang but is enough to give you that adrenaline.
blame_lagg@reddit
It's funny - I think my 350hp car is not particularly fast but a 350hp airplane would be an absolute hot rod that cruises 200-250mph.
It puts things in perspective that even though the acceleration is not insane, that amount of power is actually quite a bit.
iroll20s@reddit
Well 300hp isn’t a lot in the world of 4000lb cars. However 10lb/hp can feel pretty zippy. More than 8:1 starts getting into’hard to use on the street’
Orangepinapples@reddit
I have two cars with a little bit over 300hp (and a motorcycle with 105.)
The power application between the two is just so different.
It really depends on what the 300hp is attached to. But for a sedan, of moderate size it’s a great threshold of power and 5 seconds to 60 is above average and also a good threshold.
Obvious_Organization@reddit
One of the most fun test drives I did was a Fiesta ST. Smashed it through the gears at redline and never broke the speed limit. My wife vetoed me daily driving a fiesta unfortunately. Ended up with my third GTI - which was also a fantastic car but more refined/less of a hooligan.
land8844@reddit
My 2008 Toyota Sienna has the 2GR-FE with ~270 horsepower. It's the first car I've had where I thought to myself "this is enough power". I also have a 2015 Toyota Highlander that has the same engine. Like the Sienna, it has plenty of power.
spacecaptainsteve@reddit
I think 300 hp is ideal if the car is light enough.
VanSora@reddit
300 whp and 300 stock (crank hp) are not the same though. Very different.
omnipotent87@reddit
Now a days it really isn't a lot. It's good, but quite a few 4 cylinders make over 300 making it fairly common place. To add to it cars in general are about a thousand pounds heavier than they were 20 years ago. This means 300 hp today feels about the same as 200 did in the 90s.
Scirocco-MRK1@reddit
Stock MG Midget 1500 has 65 HP. 0-60 you need a calendar, but damn is it thrilling at 70! :)
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
Reminds me of a story my dad told me. A guy in his high school had an MGB... said guy was six-foot-three and had an afro upon the head of he. Somehow he had even more of a clown car than me :)
Scirocco-MRK1@reddit
I turned a tire in gravel one day and texted my brother that I did a “burnout” He asked if I was on a banana peel and when I said I was in gravel, he repeated his previous text. Good times.
kaihong@reddit
I'm glad you started a conversation about this.
I've been leaving comments all over Reddit, Instagram and YouTube lately about how the car meets guys show so much animosity and hostility towards me on a personal level because I track drive a Scion FR-S with less than 200hp and I compete in two time attack series local to me.
Everyone just cares about highway pulls, 0-60, drag racing, horsepower, etc and show zero appreciation for any serious/real track car builds. It's fine if these car guys do their own thing and mind their own business in their own little niche community. But when you're trying to put yourself out there at car meets, trying to make new friends as an adult, it's disheartening when they surround you or your car and start talking smack about your ride, you as a car owner, and you as a car driver. It gets worse when you fire back with "well, what's your lap time then?" and you just get 1mil excuses. If you wanted to measure ALL of a car's performance capabilities, then it's at a race track, at a circuit - not on a drag strip. Furthermore, if you wanted to prove a car owners skill level at driving, it's not drag racing. How can you say you're better than me at driving if you don't even know manual and you can't even throw down a competitive lap time? Clearly, horsepower is the only thing that matters in reality for these car guys.
I feel like I'm standing in a toxic Call of Duty lobby but IRL in real life.
I don't know about you guys, but I don't treat cars like some sort of fashion items where you ~~decorate~~ build them up for car shows and car meets, and then flex on each other claiming superiority and who's better than who (both the car and the driver). Driving a sportscar to me is a sport, like skateboarding or running a marathon/golfing/whatever. Talk to me about your lap times, podium standings and accolades. I can care less about the equipment and more about the sporting activity itself: Track Driving.
I wanted to become a car guy so I can have a 'gentlemen's sport' alternative to golfing, because 90% of my time is spent surround by downtown city guys in a corporate work environment. But, I needed the hobby to also doubles as my creative outlet where I can customize something (both artistically and competitively).
Some days, I just want to quit. The car scene is just becoming worse and worse.
ElbowTight@reddit
I think a lot of people just don’t value power to weight. While 300 hp is great, 300 hp in a car that weighs as much as a planet isn’t anything to brag about.
I had an old 318i that I put a stick turbo 2 motor into. Took all the extra shit out of the car (weight), put a longer rear gear in it 3.23 (I think can’t remember, it was out of a 5 series) I believe instead of whatever the “desired” 3 series m diff was. Had it tuned to a reliable and safe 250-270 hp (don’t remember exact number, but it was not over stressed).
That fucking car ate modern day 335’s, mustangs, Z’s, wrx’s and whatever else was normally in the 300+ category for the time. Just because it was light.
Loves that dumb thing, sold it to a kid and he proceeded to take it to another dyno in a different city and the guy blew the car up
UrUncleLarry@reddit
But I want to go from 0 to wrapped around a tree in faster than 5 seconds!!!
adwrx@reddit
We've been spoiled
Dangit_Bud@reddit
Internet things. Everything gets compared to 1000hp Supras and Hellcats.
300hp is plenty in any car to be plenty fast. I’d actually argue too much for most people, seeing how the general public drives.
I have plenty of fun in my 185hp roadster and very seldom do I wish it had more. 🤷🏼♂️
eyi526@reddit
My car is rated 205 at the crank, so somewhere around 170 to the (front) wheels. It's more than enough for daily driving, and, yes, I've driven faster cars.
It's not the fastest 0-60, but that is apparently all that matters, these days. Especially to people claiming they are "car guys/people". I roll my eyes whenever I see a post in r/whatcarshouldibuy start with "I'm a car guy/person and...".
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
Hey, you might even recognize me from there! I'm that paranoid schizophrenic shilling for Saturns!
WittyCricket6473@reddit
Of course its not fast,when you side by a jet you obviously lose🙄
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
Trueee!
Very true very true!
Selling my Sky for a Continental Airlines-sponsored airplane tomorrow.
MMA-Groupie@reddit
300hp is also a really fun amount for a daily driver. My wrx is around 300 whp and I can floor it all the way through 2nd gear without really risking a crazy ticket but at the same time it's still very fun.. I was comparing it to a manual supra and besides being half the price, the everyday application of a car with a usable power level is majorly overlooked. I think a 3400lbs car could be up to about 320 before you start to lose that daily and legal fun situation
PanzerKittenWildcard@reddit
I get as an enthusiast wanting more for a performance car, but what really irks me are the people acting like the average person needs a 4 second 0-60 or it's unsafe to merge. 300hp is fine for anything. My explorer has 300hp and does 0-60 in like 6 seconds, it's fine. My Lincoln has maybe 230hp if I'm lucky and does it in like 8 seconds, it's fine
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
The only car I've ever felt like I could have trouble merging with was a Saturn SL1, which pushed MAYBE 100 hp on a good day and had like a 9-10 second 0-60. I'd argue 7 or less is perfectly fine for everyday driving.
Ms_KnowItSome@reddit
It does depend on whether you're talking NA or Turbo 300HP. NA 300HP is going to feel a lot faster off the line because of all that torque, and probably decent displacement. Turbo 300HP, even with advanced twin-scroll turbos that spool really quickly is still going to come alive after you're going 10-20mph.
Also, FWD, RWD, AWD. All of those feel pretty different with 300HP.
The fact remains that nearly all new cars above their base model engine have pretty insane amounts of power if you compare back to the '80-00's. I mean hell, I rented a Chrysler Pacifica with the pentastar and just getting on it a little bit was like, holy shit, this is a pretty fast brick.
s-a_n-s_@reddit
Anyone who says 300hp isn't a lot hasn't driven the new corolla gr hatchback. That absolutely does not feel like 300hp, it feels like waaaay more, it's so fun to drive. It's the best example in my opinion of a car set up perfectly at 300hp.
Ok_Type3544@reddit
300hp in a heavy car isn’t a lot but in a light car it’s nice
Greengloom@reddit
Our perception of what's fast and what a lot of horsepower is has been warped beyond recognition in recent years. Everything has a gazillion horsepower and does 0-60 in the blink of an eye, and it's not just hyper/supercars that are like. And that's all new cars do these days. Car manufacturers don't seem to be able to make them any more interesting so all they do is just make them go faster. As far as I'm concerned I'd consider plenty of older cars to be fast, and usually far more interesting. You can barely enjoy or test the limits of even lower end performance vehicles on public roads these days because they're all so damn fast now. I'd much rather have something with less horsepower that won't send me to prison on public roads personally.
84FSP@reddit
I dig both ends of the spectrum for different reasons. My 600hp cts v was nasty fun but kind of a 5 seconds of throttle in any gear got you to arrest me speeds. My MK1 GTI is the total other end of the spectrum where you can hoon it around anywhere having a ball without getting into too much trouble. My M3P daily is an interesting blend of darn quick and comfy daily. In my old age, “Fast” is really relative.
RockIsFlock@reddit
I’m happy with my 2000 Toyota Celica GT-S HP already. I know it’s not the fastest, but I love the looks, the feeling of the lift, turning on corners, and the interior. Maybe for me, it’s probably like the saying
“It’s more fun driving a slow car fast than a fast car driving slow.”
MagnusTheCooker@reddit
People are dumb and easily manipulated by media
Hunt69Mike@reddit
Even on the track, 300 hp is plenty in a light car with good dynamics. I’ve passed countless V8 mustangs, Camaros, corvettes, 911’s, caymans, etc. in my stock power 200k mile FR-S.
WideOpenAutoHub@reddit
Yeah 300 is plenty in a small car fo sho
Efficacious_tamale@reddit
It’s been said a thousand times, but driving a slow car fast is fun as hell. I love me some HP, but there’s a lot more to it than just that.
5Gmeme@reddit
300hp can be alot depending on the car. A 300hp golf r can 0-60 in around 4.2 ish.
Meanwhile the 300hp Nissan maxima does it in 5.7.
Addbradsozer@reddit
99% of the people saying 300hp isn't a lot are people who haven't driven a car with 300hp
Dylan4570@reddit
It's kind of like an addiction though. Once you have 300hp you get used to it. then you want more. and it just keeps escalating. Eventually, you reach a point where it's scary enough that you are satiated. or you run out of money.
The same goes for traction. As the power increased I wanted more traction. so I got a better tire. and suspensions setup. Then the vehicle feels slow again because you have more traction. so then the vicious cycle of adding more power begins again.
I can't speak for people that go out and buy fast stuff. I buy junk and modify it. But I think it's a similar cycle for most people. Then there are also a lot of people out there who want to have a nominal HP or performance value to talk about, so people know how awesome they are or whatever.
Adrenaline-Junkie187@reddit
300hp can be very little or a decent amount. Kind of depends on the vehicle.
Leek5@reddit
It’s not a lot by todays standards. A v6 Camry was making 300 before they stoped making it
HAKX5@reddit (OP)
You didn't read at all :/
I'm bemoaning the use of relativistic thinking in this case. In absolute terms, the ability to just get up to freeway speeds in a time frame most would consider next to nothing is just awesome.
Cczaphod@reddit
‘97 NSX, 332 HP no mods. Well balanced, fun to drive, good looking (that’s on the dyno, not specs)
jzplayinggames@reddit
This goes beyond car culture, it is fundamentally the fragile man ego that feels the need to min max everything.
Computers, cars, whatever. Dudes just need to assess every little detail in order to verify if its optimal or not. It's pretty much dumb male energy in a nutshell
V5489@reddit
My car makes 596hop to the wheels. It’s all wheel drive. It’s 0-60 is like 3.4 seconds. I can’t make the tires squeal or do a burnout. Passing on the highway is much easier and more enjoyable. I dunno, 300hp isn’t a lot, but if you’re just using it as a daily and drive like a grandma then sure it’s plenty.
ellasfella68@reddit
My RS60 Spyder pushes 303, I’ll never need more.
Staplersarefun@reddit
People have completely lost scope of what is a fast car. I also blame the manufacturers.
My two SUVs both have over 350HP and do 5 second 0-60... Why?
I suppose it's made it easier to get these hp numbers with hybrid and EV power trains... But it's getting out of hand.
perfectly_ballanced@reddit
Depends what it's pushing, a 300 hp hayabusa is completely different from a 300 hp silverado, one does 160 mph wheelies, the other can't go over 100
Frird2008@reddit
300 HP isn't a lot if the vehicle weighs 6000 lbs.
A ratio of 80 HP / 1000 lbs is plenty
ibeinspire@reddit
I actually think 300hp in a modestly weighted car (1.1-1.5ton) is IDEAL
Enough power to get in trouble, not enough to be unable to enjoy the car.
KennyMoratti@reddit
My 5.0 makes 360 horsepower (its an F150)
TikiTribble@reddit
Power-to-weight ratio.
KarmaYogadog@reddit
Pump those ponies guys! We don't have enough heat in the atmosphere or the oceans yet!
Everybody can hear the /s, right? Right?
srcorvettez06@reddit
My daily is a 315 HP V8 sedan. 5.5 seconds to 60. It’s plenty for daily use. Still wish I had more but the curse of the speed junkie.
dynesor@reddit
to me anything below 6 seconds is quick
Many-Screen-3698@reddit
328 v6 in like 5.4 and i feel like when you’re behind the wheel the 5 seconds feels like it goes by faster than that
srcorvettez06@reddit
My car doesn’t really feel slow until I’m on track getting passed by 600hp cars that weigh half what mine weighs.
Jaggerjaquez714@reddit
It’s usually people who have never had a fast car who say shit like this😂 300bhp is enough to have a lot of fun.
90s Ferraris were around 300.
I’ve driven stuff up to 700bhp and a lot of the time you can spank a 300bhp more and have more fun with it.
BeerLeagueSnipes@reddit
I’m oldish (born early 80s). As a kid, anything north of 300hp was absolutely monstrous.
So I agree. Anything north of 300 is MORE than powerful enough to handle day to day use. My current ride is a V6, 310hp and ample enough power for anything I need.
I just shake my head when people think that 300hp isn’t enough for everyday use.
SparklingPseudonym@reddit
Wtf is boyracing? 😂 Girls can’t race? Is this bait?
Dynasty_30@reddit
My car has 255 hp and 295 lb-ft of torque and it’s plenty to make the car feel quick. 0-60 in 5.5 sec and the car only weighs like 3300lbs so it’s fairly nimble. And I still get 31MPG bc it’s an I-4.
Of course cars with 400+ hp are faster but only by like a second and drink gas which is pricey AF out here in California
TheArchist@reddit
in the end its a sobering lesson to be happy with what you have. i find anything 350+ horsepower is "illegal too fast" territory no matter what, so i focus on getting dynamics/liveability instead
yooooooowdawg@reddit
Jaguars are not fast cars.. they are quick cars
p0u1@reddit
Electric cars have changed the whole impressive 0-60 times.
Whitey90@reddit
That’s my Camborghini 💪
341orbust@reddit
You are 100% correct.
The Testarossa and first gen Viper both went 0-60 in about 5 seconds (give or take) and nobody that doesn’t drive F1 professionally considers those cars slow.
A 5 year old Camaro V-6 is just slightly slower to 60.
In any rational world a 300hp car is fast.
babimeatus@reddit
A 2004 R32 still corners the pabties off any woman that goes to Tail of the Dragon with me, the R32 is the best wingman
platypus_farmer42@reddit
Driving a slow car fast is way more fun.
Cowcoc@reddit
It’s not about the 0-100. Its about the 100-200
ZeeGarage@reddit
Everything is relative. 300hp is pretty normal now days. If you’re happy with it though then great. My daily is a Chrysler 300. Which has plenty of power. Jump from that to my wife’s 2024 bolt on Z and it’s slow and the Z has plenty of power. Jump from that to my dads supercharged Camaro and the Z is slow. From that to my built gtr and the Camaro is insanely slow.
It’s all perspective and what makes you happy.
oldfartpen@reddit
Your focus on 0-60 speaks volumes. It is, quite possibly the most useless specification for a car as it says nothing about its cornering ability, its handling, its overtaking performance or anything other than a simple spec that almost nobody ever needs.
The simple thrill of a powerful engine producing blistering overtaking performance is to be envied until appreciated, not scoffed. The same applies to a chassis capable of effectively moving at speed through many changing corners without causing any concern for a driver driving at 9/10ths.
There is nothing boy racer about a sports sedan with 400+ hp.. its simply luxury in motion, with the motion being fast, quiet and agile.
as a Saturn owner I hope you can appreciate there are 500 cars better than what you own.. dont knock it.. aspire to it
Imaginary-Art1340@reddit
Anyone who hasn’t been in the twisties thinks this way. Around 5-5.5 seconds in a lightweight car is perfect imo and you really feel it with a manual. No way a freaking cybertruck in the tail of the dragon is gonna feel the same
MightyPenguin@reddit
My wife's old 300hp mustang was...okay, it wasn't that exciting honestly. My 300hp Miata is a riot.
RipCurl69Reddit@reddit
I've been in a 300hp exact Mk2 Focus RS pushing 135mph down a dual carriageway in the pissing rain on the way to a meet. It was both terrifying and incredibly stable.
HanCurunyr@reddit
When I see american/canadian youtubers testing a car that is 300\~350hp and saying "it isnt really fast, just enough to not be dangerous", I cant help but cringe a little, 80hp is pretty capable of keeping 70mph, 120hp, even more so, at a much lower RPM
Are you guys driving at 100\~120 on highways, for 300hp be slow? Because here, 100\~120 is straight to jail, car impounded and licence revoked, no questions asked
rugbyj@reddit
Yeah as a degenerate European it's kind of hilarious to always see folks lament 200hp not being enough to merge safely. I've owned 1 litre bangers most of my life and never had an issue. You're just not ragging it hard enough.
just_another_jabroni@reddit
Yea. Even the Top Gear guys get more giddy at 150hp mini hot hatches than 700hp super sedans but our North American friends think even a Lexus IS350 is dangerous for highway mergers.
Evil-Bosse@reddit
Part of the problem is that america has ridiculously short on ramps in a lot of areas, and god forbid you'd lower the speed limits in those sections.
While in Europe we have usually decent long on ramps, and where it's impossible to build the highways usually have a lower speed limit.
Only car I haven't been able to hit proper speeds in was an opel agila with a 1.0 liter engine with 60-ish horsepower. Even by starting to accelerate in a roundabout ahead of time and constantly pushing to the rev limiter it just couldn't do it. With 4 people in the car it managed to hit 100 before I needed to merge unto a 110 road.
Vhozite@reddit
I drove through CT a few months ago and some of the “on-ramps” are literally just stop signs 10-20ft away from a full lane of 60+ mph traffic. It’s the dumbest shit I’ve ever seen lol
manx6@reddit
I managed just fine in my 88hp '95 Escort for years. I regularly took it over 80mph on the highway with no issues. I absolutely could not pass on a two-lane road though.
Ironically, it was the lack of braking performance in that car that made it feel unsafe. I have no desire to own a car without ABS ever again...
No-Nrg@reddit
5 second 0-60 is fast, but once you've felt 3.5 seconds, 5 seconds feels slow
PlsHalp420@reddit
It's decent, it's not fast. IMO, especially with modern extremely overweight cars, it's where you start seeing what fast is.
ReaperThugX@reddit
Butt dyno
Killahdanks1@reddit
Sure. Do you. I’ll do my thing. I prefer more. 500hp is better, and I do often use it within the parameters of normal driving.
Seref15@reddit
Weight. 300hp in a small sedan or coupe is plenty. 300hp in a three-row crossover is probably fine but not zippy.
Mz_Hyde_@reddit
My daddy always taught me that it's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow :)
I have a little Kia Forte GT and even though it's not a race car, it feels fast zipping around and I love it way more than my old Mustang GT that was definitely faster lol.
Justahumanimal@reddit
My daily has 250whp and weighs about 3k lbs. It's quick enough for road use. If I push it 100% on a road, it begins to feel like too much. So I get to use the power I have.
Any more than that I think I'm just waisting power to weight on a road car.
oldandintheway99@reddit
Most Ferraris in the 80's produced less than 300 horsepower.
CharlestonKSP@reddit
300hp isn't a lot on a truck that weighs 7000 pounds.
300hp is a ridiculous amount on a car that weighs 2k.
Everything is relative.
CatHistorical184@reddit
Remember, there was a time when 100hp was considered outrageous. Speed is always relative, and when a cheap 30k used suv can hit 500hp, 300hp is very slow. A 3.5s 0-60 is the baseline for a fast car today, simply bc a taxicab SUV can hit that.
cubs223425@reddit
Such things are, of course, relative. 300 HP isn't a lot for a BEV SUV that weight 5,000 pounds like the Equinox. It'd be a heck of a lot for a BRZ/86 that weighs under 3,000 pounds.
It isn't a lot when we just reached the end of an era where Camaros went up to 650 HP and Chargers/Challengers went to 700 HP, but that doesn't mean it's not adequate for the average driver. OF course, there's also the matters of how you get that power--is it an EV with instant torque, an engine that has more torque than HP, or something sluggish with awful turbo lag and overall poor acceleration?
It's hard to think of a case where 300 HP in a modern consumer vehicle isn't sufficient, but with so many options north of 400 HP these days, it's easy to see where an enthusiast sees 300 HP as insufficient for what he wants. For me, someone who's been driving a sub-200 HP car for the past 8+ years, 300 HP would be a significant upgrade. At the same time, the number of desirable vehicles at 300 HP is pretty low, and the death of the 300 HP Camry means there are probably more 400+ HP cars to write home about than 300 HP ones.
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LewEnenra@reddit
It's like those people who obsess over dick size despite not having a clue how to use it.
Power to weight is crazy. You get a 300bhp that weighs under a tonne and you're onto a winner.
fordprefect294@reddit
300hp is fucking plenty for a daily driver
Probablyawerewolf@reddit
It’s all relative. I’ve driven newer BMWs that make 60 in 4 seconds. I’ve driven 00s Subarus that make 60 in the same time. It feels fast in one car, and numb in the other one. Lol
People who chase times are just a different kind of car guy. They’re certainly more tech based. Say what you will about the 19y/o broccoli headed tiktok boi and his (dad’s) 1000 hp bmw…… homies into cars just like you and I. And while hustle culture pearloid wrapped teslas have a toxic following, so do the grassroots racers, JDM purists, standing mile, land speed, offroad, and all those other crowds. Lol
Visible-World7098@reddit
300hp is crazy fast Something the Civic fanboys will never achieve
jacoby1k@reddit
No seriously. I daily a 335 hp rwd V8 and that’s more than enough for me to have fun while not feeling like I’m gonna die 😂😂
Forum_Browser@reddit
My 7500 lbs truck with 305hp and a 6 speed is slow. But with 555 ft lbs of torque and a loud turbo it feels powerful and its still kinda fun to drive.
My old e34 5 series has 286 hp and a 6 speed with no rev hang bullshit, and it feels pretty fast to me. It has more than enough power to be fun, and the small displacement v8 sounds great when you floor it. It's not fast by modern standards, but it's still a tonne of fun to drive around in. If all you've ever driven is base model civics or small SUV's it feels like an absolute rocket ship.
I've been in a 1300 hp car before and while it's insanely fast and a tonne of fun, you're going impound speeds within a second of pressing the loud pedal.
Slimy_Shart_Socket@reddit
I've always said, anything that can crack 100mph in rhe 1/4 mile is quick/peppy, and faster than at least 80% of normal road cars.
tman2damax11@reddit
I think a \~5 second 0-60 is perfectly adequate. Quicker than most other cars on the road, and it's not 'blink and you'll miss it' fast. I will never understand the obsession with street cars where you can break the law and put yourself and others in serious danger within a few seconds.
Far-Shift1235@reddit
Something thats never talked about with cars, I imagine from engine variation and gearing being much less diverse, but is powerband and weight distribution
Inline 4-6's that feel like they wind out will always "feel" faster than a v8 or v6 that grunts with power and falls flat or has a much more linear band. Same with weight distribution and why I think bmw is still so weird about their 50/50, a heavier front/ hard load shift to the rear tires will make the car feel faster through the steering lightening up as well as just the extra movement backwards
Theres tons of cars the feel faster than they are on paper. Bmw is the undisputed king of feeling faster than their numbers
jlo575@reddit
Good post. So many people are concerned with HP numbers on paper without actually considering how and if it’ll be used. Anywhere but a track, you’re either spinning tires or relying on traction control and therefore not even using the power. Nobody is cruising at 120 mph on the highway and 300 will get you beyond that anyways.
StayStrong888@reddit
10 second 0-60 used to be considered fast and 8 second was top sports car territory.
Now if you're not doing sub 7s you can't even sell a cheap compact sedan.
When the 1991 Nissan 300ZX twin turbo came out with bhp, it blew away Porsche, Ferrari, and all other cars with its numbers.
IIRC, the 911 wasn't even putting out close to low 200bhp at that time at 2x the cost of the Nissan.
Drunken_Hamster@reddit
Yeah, 200-300whp per ton is the goat range. Anything over 500whp/ton is just spec sheet racing. The lighter the better, too. At least to a certain extent when it comes to a daily, but for a pure performance toy go all out on weight reduction as long as it doesn't negatively affect the chassis.
ACG3185@reddit
I mean it depends on the vehicle. 300 hp in a full size truck is slow. 300 hp in a 2000 pound Honda Civic is moving pretty damn good.
Makeitquick666@reddit
yeah, but not quite. For lighter, and especially older cars, say a Lotus Exige, 200hp is humungous. This is simply because there is significantly less weight to lug around, and worse tyres/suspensions mean that it’s easier ti unstick.
For something that has good tyres/suspension and/or a lot of weight (modern cars) then 300 might feel a bit underwhelming. Compared to 200, you get 50% more HP, but you might be towing twice the weight, which is the case especially with EVs. Like, 150hp is enough on an MX5, but would not be enough on a Hummer.
That being said, given how awful traffic is nowadays, there’s few chances that you can actually use all the power, so your point is still valid. Also, 300hp can still be a lot for proper motorsports :)
Thing is it’s easier/more profitable to add hp than to lose weight, so there’s that.
unclaimed_username2@reddit
It's the Internet. People sit online watching 1000hp cars do 10 seconds 1/4 mile times and think that's the norm for fast cars. It's not.
Go outside, you'll see maybe 2 cars with more than 300hp that aren't massive SUVs.
nissanfan64@reddit
I had a modified 1997 Buick Regal GS about a decade ago that had the supercharged V6 and around 315 horsepower.
Most powerful car I ever owned and it was a riot to drive. I can’t understand the people who think it’s not enough for most driving needs. I test drove a 4 cylinder manual Bronco and was like yea this is great. I don’t get the people screaming about it needed a V8 or whatever.
DanielG165@reddit
My ‘13 RS makes around 323-325hp, with strong amounts of torque as well from an N/A screaming V6, and it’s plenty fast for the public road. Never do I feel like I need MORE power whenever I drive it, and can never even really hit the 7200rpm redline, or even 3-4,000 rpm safely on the street without absolutely demolishing the speed limit lol. It regularly and casually leaves a healthy gap between me and whatever car is right on my rear just with the slightest bit of acceleration even in 3rd gear.
All that to say… 300 horsepower is more than enough for 99% of people.
losteye_enthusiast@reddit
Go drive a car regularly that has 400, 500 or 600+ hp.
It’s not about the 0-60 time. 20-40, 40-70, 70-90(for passing) becomes noticeably easier to do. The extra power makes every normal thing you do on the road easier. Especially if that power is paired to a good transmission and gets it down consistently? So nice.
I don’t have to slam through the gears in any of my faster cars. I don’t care to burn out my tires either. Yah shouldn’t have to drive like an angry F&F fan to feel like your car is keeping up.
CrownSeven@reddit
Its crazy, 20 years ago, a car that had a 0-60 time in the 6's was considered fast. Really goes to show how much auto tech has advanced. And now with electric, 0-60 just doesn't matter all that much anymore.
whtciv2k@reddit
I agree with just about everything you said. 300hp is more than enough for daily use in most any car.
foggiermeadows@reddit
Welcome to what the motorcycle world deals with.
A Ninja 400 with a skilled rider has the same 0-60 as a Ferrari 430 (~4.5 seconds) but a top speed of only 120 so it's "a baby bike"
"If you're not riding a 200hp 1000cc you might as well be wearing diapers"
It's all an Instagram pissing contest, enjoy whatever you like. Don't let the internet get you down.
Danktanic420@reddit
I once read a comment saying that said that anything under 200hp is unsafe because its too slow to merge onto a highway. I have about 120 now coming from 90 and even then i never had any issues merging, just floor it everywhere
Due_Signature_5497@reddit
Have to agree. Have a 2.5 turbo AWD suv that’s 300 hp on the nose and 6.4 0-60. My first car was a 69 cutlass with a 350 v8 that had 10 more hp and about 1/2 second faster 0-60. It was considered a muscle car.
UXyes@reddit
People who don’t think 300 hp is a lot are spending more time reading about cars than driving them.
GaRGa77@reddit
It extends phalluses…
hachi2JZ@reddit
Also depends what kind of roads you're driving it on, of course. 200hp in a <1400kg/3000lbs hatch or small sports car is more than enough for some of the narrower roads near me.
ClutchFactorx10@reddit
People who say shit like that are the same people who wipe out and total their cars because they think they know how to drive 😂 any self respecting enthusiast understands that it’s more than just numbers and a dick measuring contest.
DrZedex@reddit
300hp in my grc? Hilariously fun.
300hp in an old crusty Super Duty with stupidly tall gears? Godawful, unbearably weak-ass.
It's all gearing and power to weight.
solomonsays18@reddit
It all depends man. What exactly do you want out of your car, what even is the car, how big and heavy is it, etc. 300 might be great for what you want or it might not.
If you want a sports car to drive for fun on the weekends and maybe take to the track, you might want more than 300hp. And that’s okay.
poisenloaf@reddit
My old TT RS with 400hp and a 4.2s 0-60 felt unhinged in first and second gears if I floored it.
WCland@reddit
For street cars, people use torque more than they use horsepower. People driving 500hp Chargers around never actually use even half that power.
thetrivialsublime99@reddit
Power-to-weight ratio is what's important.
ARAR1@reddit
Yes 300 is more than adequate for a daily driver.
Link_inbio@reddit
When I was in HS in the 80s, everyone was on about the 5.0 Mustang. V8 with 200-225 HP, maybe 250 on high end models. Yay.
A Honda Civic of today would destroy that car. A base model V6 Camaro today comes with 300 HP, no problem.
I say you do you, man. Drive what you like and leave others to their small dick energy!
DishRelative5853@reddit
I wonder if the people who say 300hp isn't a lot actually own a car.
grundlemon@reddit
My car has 108 hp. Still slow as fuck, but only reason it’s faster than my 230hp vehicle, is this one weighs just over 2000 lbs and is a car that can handle, vs a truck weighing 5,500lbs that’s all body roll. Power to weight is much more important than just power imo.
potatoboy247@reddit
i was sitting behind a mitsu mirage in traffic the other day and realized i had triple his hp. doesn’t do much good in traffic anyways
wish_you_a_nice_day@reddit
Tire not burning out at 300hp…
Miracle_bro_@reddit
Agreed. My Wrangler 4xe is 5 sec 0-60. Way more than it should have for a brick.
GabRB26DETT@reddit
If you can't have fun with 300hp, then you may need a break from Forza for a bit. Can't agree any more with you, OP. My fun car is a bone stock-ish R33 Skyline. Probably 290HP, still fun as hell
eyeothemastodon@reddit
I recently went from an NA Subaru Forester to a T6 Volvo XC70 with 300hp - it's so much even for a pig of a station wagon! I feel like its a ridiculous sleeper.
chooseyourshoes@reddit
Also the size of the car matters. I drive a 350z with 300hp and that little fucker rips.
DiZeez@reddit
Nothing wrong with 300HP at the wheels. Until you drive something with 600. It's a fun factor. Drive what you like.
Sneakystrong86@reddit
300hp doesn't mean anything unless you talk about weight of the vehicle. 300hp in a 1500 truck is a turd. 300hp in a 2500lb car is fast.
gbeezy007@reddit
I mean when saying it isn't a lot just means compared to what's offered and avaible. So many cars have more so I wouldn't objectively call it a lot.
I absolutely agree though 300hp is a pretty sweet amount. You can get some very fun cars with this. Like the Golf R or Civic Type R. Even cars under 300 can be fun like the Wrx and Elantra N. Hell a Base Porsche Cayman is at 300hp and the upgrade is 350hp.
And most of these 300hp cars actually break the 5 second and are in the 4s if has a good transmission and setup.
300HP is enough even for people looking for fun. But it isn't A lot. 300hp for a daily driver is probably more then they need depending on car size.
Boost_speed@reddit
It’s just because with modern cars and technology the 300whp benchmark is now extremely easily attainable. With that being said, most cars with 300whp or more are all fun to drive.
skepticallypessimist@reddit
Cope
Maleficent_Lab_8291@reddit
You know what, to hell with hp numbers, give us the power to weight ratio
Slytherin73@reddit
As a performance engine machinist/builder, 300 is nothing but it’ll beat almost all of my currently owned vehicles until I put work into them.
I’m spoiled by a Shelby GT500 that makes 1k with just a tune and a bigger blower, and 2k+ drag boat/top alcohol engines.
In a 4000 lb vehicle I want 500whp minimum/3-4s 0-60.
That being said however, power will always be relative to weight.
Jodaa_G0D@reddit
300HP isn't a lot in my eyes, but it's all perspective. I've had the pleasure of owning several fun cars over the last decade, starting from a stock LT1 Trans Am to a current boosted FBO C7 corvette making 700hp.
So_Full_Of_Fail@reddit
Because for a while(years) I DD'd the Evo I had when it made 500 wheel.
Then it got built and made ~780 wheel, and was fun for a while.
Then the fuel system was changed to run on e98 and it made ~900 wheel, and I still would just drive it to go shopping, errands, etc.
So now I have a car that by math with 1/4 mile MPH makes like 330 wheel in a car that weighs 2880 with me in it and it feels slow.
There's also a big difference between the crank/SAE rating, and power at the wheels.
SlowRs@reddit
My suv makes over 300 hp. It’s still slow, they sell them with over 500.
doubtsnail@reddit
300hp in a 2 1/2 ton car is a dog. 300hp in a 1800lb civic is a rocket.
pcweber111@reddit
My 2018 540i makes around 330hp, and it’s definitely able to haul when I need to.
TopRamanNoodl3s@reddit
the amount of insane takes in this thread is wild to me lol just enjoy your car!!! shit is not that serious!! if ppl say 300 is slow that’s because their frame of reference is 600!! that’s not your problem that’s theirs!!
HunterShotBear@reddit
My 2012 S4 has about 300hp at all 4 wheels and it’s plenty.
And I can get high 20’s mpg when I want on the highway.
And it’s not exactly a light car but it’s perfect. 225k miles and still going strong.
popsicle_of_meat@reddit
My 6000lb truck pulling my 6000lb boat trailer has 300HP, so sluggish. Abysmal 0-60 time...
What kind of car are you talking about??
Havanu@reddit
I had an Audi s1 tuned to 300 bhp (311 to be exact). It weighs about 1400kg and has a manual. That thing was so much fun to throw around a corner! Haldex isn't true 4wd, but gravel, mud or ice was amazing.
StockAL3Xj@reddit
Horsepower is addictive and most people will get use to anything that isn't completely crazy. My last car was over 400 bhp and it felt super fast when I first got it. After a year it felt normal and I wanted more.
Its_Lu_Bu@reddit
I mean it really isn't nowadays. My daily puts down roughly 300 to the wheels and weighs less than 3000 lbs and isn't very fast/quick. 10 years ago it would've been pretty good though.
Bag-o-chips@reddit
Now a days, 5 seconds 0-60 can be an SUV. The time does not directly translate to the experience, but I get your point.
ImPattMan@reddit
The difference some people, a lot of people, cannot be happy with good enough.
I used to be one of them, chasing that dragon.
Nowadays I drive a Sonata N-Line, 290 HP and like 305 lb/ft and she handles like a dream. Car and Driver got 5 second flat 0-60 where I've only achieved 5.4 myself, but that's still plenty of power for when I need it paired with a great transmission, and the rest of the time, she gets me around quite comfortably.
Honestly, just be happy that you're one of us that actually feels that good enough is good enough, leave others to their need for speed.
IAmTheCoroner69@reddit
Judging the merit of a car entirely on its HP is the equivalent of judging the quality of weed entirely on its THC content.
Stay tuned for my Ted talk coming soon
ToastandSpaceJam@reddit
I think a lot of people’s opinions of cars come from car reviewers and what people in comments of social media posts say. The 0-60 fans usually don’t end up knowing much more about cars than just what peak power and torque are.
In reality, there’s a lot more to a car than just the power. Weight is a huge factor, weight distribution is a huge factor, the feel of steering, the amount of body roll, responsiveness to inputs, power delivery, etc all matter. 0-60 boys will have you thinking that Lotus makes slow cars, but do not understand what about their design focus and language makes them unique. 300 hp is not the same everywhere. 300 hp in a family sized SUV is not the same as 300 hp in a Miata (this will likely kill you).
Also in daily driving, the amount of acceleration potential you need to pass a car is surprisingly little. I’ve passed cars on the freeway easily using cars that have like 110 BHP. That car was doing no more than like 8 sec 0-60, but point is that it doesn’t actually matter lol
Long-Cauliflower-557@reddit
im good with a 7 sec lmao
xMar0@reddit
they mean it aint fast compared to other stuff
The_Real_NaCl@reddit
300hp can feel wildly different depending on the weight of the car it’s pulling. A car that weighs 3000lbs and has 300hp will feel much faster than a car that weighs 4000lbs with the same power.
dmaul@reddit
My exige was 300hp and under 1900lb with me in it. I got asked on more than one occasion if it was a Venom GT. I can't imagine a venom because my exige was fast as shit with "only 300hp".
Here's a 2min around Pitt Race.
AccipiterCooperii@reddit
The 250hp in my daily driver is plenty… and when I want the sportscar experience I bust out my car with 100 LESS hp. There’s just so much more to driving than outright speed.
daxelkurtz@reddit
Side question: what's the slowest 0-60 time on a car with 300hp?
MacNuggetts@reddit
I drive a heavy fucking GT car. 450ish buff horses. It's 0-60mph is still like 5 seconds.
I think the difference between 5 seconds and 2.8 seconds is one is fast. The other is ridiculously fast.
BrokenWhiskeyBottles@reddit
Honestly, I'm in the apparently rare group who thinks that the amount of power in a lot of performance cars today basically make them boring to drive. Sure, it's nice to say that you've got 600hp on tap, but you're past speeding into reckless driving charges before you've even gotten through the gears. You just can't play with them anywhere other than a track. Both my vehicles are over 300hp, one a full-size truck the other a BMW 435. Both are fun to drive, and while the BMW is obviously much faster and more maneuverable, the 6.2 liter V8 in the truck is definitely peppy for a vehicle that size.
LA-ncevance@reddit
My 270hp Boxster is quite boring to drive compared to my 650hp Camaro
BrokenWhiskeyBottles@reddit
Please tell me the 650hp Camaro is from like 1972 with a ridiculous aftermarket motor and no modern traction control. That would definitely count as exciting.
LA-ncevance@reddit
You can always turn traction control off...
Anyways, I think it says more about the Porsche than the Chevy. Porsches can be quite clinical. No drama.
BrokenWhiskeyBottles@reddit
Related story, a friend years ago let go of his highly modified, overpowered first-gen 300Z and got a Boxter. We gave him constant digs about being in his girlfriend's car, so he went as far as possible in the other direction and bought a Viper. That was the car he got pulled over in because he came through an apex turn around a gas station sideways, looking at the police car the entire time. He immediately pulled over, at which point the cop said while he appreciated it, why did he pull over. My friend looked at him with a straight face and said "I didn't want you driving that fast to catch me." He was a guy who could somehow get away with that kind of stuff where if I tried it I would end up in jail.
su1ac0@reddit
300 wheel is a far cry from a "300 hp car"
The vast majority of people saying 300 isn't enough are talking 300 crank HP.
hobbestigertx@reddit
Spoken like someone who hasn't experienced 400hp.
It's like owning guns, playing golf, gambling, sex, or any other habit forming activity. Once you start, the search for more horsepower is endless.
Manginaz@reddit
300hp is why I rev my wife's Expedition at every stop light.
MoirasPurpleOrb@reddit
I think EVs and hyper cars have warped everyone’s perceptions. When sooo many cars can go 0-60 under 3 seconds, 5 seconds seems average.
BudFox_LA@reddit
I have a 328i with jb4 and a downpipe and it does about 300hp at the wheels. I could quite easily go fast enough in a very short time on public roads to lose my license etc. But the F30 and BMW subs are full of guys who troll and engine gate-keep, insisting you need at least 400hp to make it to the beat buy or whatever
Wandering_Werew0lf@reddit
I have a Mazda CX-5 with the turbo and it has 250hp. Let me tell you, I need no more, that thing zips up to speed on the highway!
Secret-Assistance-10@reddit
It's social media sadly, most people saying this have never been or driven a 300hp car...
mcbainer019@reddit
Yeah I don't need to be drag racing anyone on public roads so the HP race doesn't do anything for me. I adore driving my little souped up Elantra GT N Line Hatchback; has around 240HP at the wheel and is an absolute hoot to drive. I imagine mid-300's is about where I would stop having fun and start being scared lol
DudeWhereIsMyDuduk@reddit
5 seconds isn't happening with 300hp with 35" tires, solid axles, and body on frame...
lectorlibrorum@reddit
People who say 300hp is slow are usually a) always driving faster cars (a rather small percentage of the population) or b) stupid young people who get influenced by social media and don't have a grasp on reality.
PreviousWar6568@reddit
300hp on a car: :/ 300hp on a bike: :P
Professional_Rise148@reddit
My minivan has 300.
I_am_-c@reddit
My ATS 3.6L has 321hp, does a bit over 5sec to 60 and a 14sec quarter mile.
It's not slow, but it's definitely not a lot. It's adequate.
DudeWhereIsMyDuduk@reddit
You're assuming everyone is going to be driving little sedans or coupes with that 300hp...put that in a 5200lb body on frame 4x4 and things get a little different.
PurpleSausage77@reddit
It’s pretty decent I would agree, it comes down to what someone is used to though. I’m loving my ATS with the 3.6/AWD, 321hp, and weighs the same as a MK7 Golf R. And that’s just on factory regular fuel tune. 0-60 is 5.1, has all the power I want for a long term daily driver without blowing up like all the 4 cylinder turbos (it already has 150k miles).
I can already tell I love the GM Alpha platform and I’m going to want a 2016+ Camaro SS next.
Fluffdaddy0@reddit
heh, in motorcycle land 3,5s 0-60 is considered a lame slow beginner bike
Pleasant_Reaction_10@reddit
to me, a commuter car needs minimum 200HP to feel right on North American roads. 300 HP is where the fun starts and should be enough, unless you have a very heavy vehicle
Severe-Syllabub7819@reddit
I remember when i first started to drive i didnt know cars or engines . I drove a 2006 gmc sierra with the 195hp 4.3 v6 and weighing 4000+lbs. I figured since it was a truck it had the most powerful engine ever compared to sedans with tiny 4 bangers. I felt like i was the fastest thing on the road!... so cringe now that i look back .
IlIlIlIlIl241l23lIlI@reddit
It's not "a lot" compared to many sports car today.
Is it "enough"? I think it is. Some don't. But 300hp is not "a lot" in today's numbers.
TheDogtoy@reddit
I do a 5 second 0-60 with 189 hp in my Lotus Elise ;)
Abruzzi19@reddit
I think riding quality is far more important than plain performance numbers. Sure your car may be fast, but I'd rather ride in style and get comfortably from A to B
ryudraco@reddit
300hp crank and wheel are two different things, 300hp wheel in an AWD car is roughly \~375 at the crank, and \~350 at the crank for a RWD car, I would put those in a different performance class depending on transmission to cars with 300 at the crank.
300hp at the crank is not slow but it's certainly not a lot... meanwhile 300 to the wheels will probably give you a low to mid 4s 0-60 which is properly quick
WeAreAllFooked@reddit
My STI is my summer daily driver and it has more than enough power for what I need at 300hp. I can drop a gear and get clear of any idiots on the road and I have enough jam to pass anyone on the highway. Everybody gets all excited about 0-60 times. The STI does it in just under 5 seconds if you nail the shift points and launch, but it still has good useable power from 30-80mph without nuking tires. It corners fast and flat, has enough room to seat 5 if you need it, and with the AWD it handles every surface you drive on. My little Mazda 3 GT is a quick car (tuned to make 200hp @ peak), but at times it lacks the oomph my STI has on the highway.
I've driven more powerful cars over the years, but they're either heavy as shit, too powerful for tires to grip the crap roads we have in Alberta, and aren't as planted as my STI. 300hp is the sweet spot for just enough power to be fun, but not too powerful to control flat out,
Anyone who has ever driven motorcycles knows that it's more fun to ride a low powered bike on the edge than it is to run a powerful bike at the low end of what it's capable of.
Scandroid99@reddit
300 hp is only fast based on power to weight ratio. A 93 5.0 Mustang wit 300 hp is painfully slow, but a Mazda Miata wit 300 hp is scary.
RealBonfiggy@reddit
300hp might be a lot for a 2000lb car but definitely weak for a 3-6000lb car lol
Perpetualstu420@reddit
Too many young people have gained their car knowledge from Tik tok and think that 300 hp isn’t enough. When I was a kid, 200 wheel was a fast car.
Blue-Mushroom13@reddit
I hate car people. I've never talked to one who was open minded, or reasonable.
DiAOM@reddit
I believe the majority of car people started when they were kids, whether through hot wheels or etc. I also believe as someone growing up with a love for cars, most go through a "numbers" phase where all you pay attention to are the horsepower and statistics that can be measured by numbers. In my case that was before I owned my first "fun" car. Then after I got my first one (C6 corvette) I realized while yes the horsepower is quite nice, thats not what you end up enjoying most about the car. Its the sensations, the thrill of the power, how satisfying it sounds to hit all the RPM band, the almost fear/anxiety when on backroads/a track, and the awe when I walk out to it in the AM or fresh wash. So many great friends you make by sharing the passion and going to meets/carsncoffee. The power, 0-60's, "G's in a corner", and ultralight weight due to carbon fiber is all super cool and whats gets your attention at first, but then you realize you just like having fun with friends in a fast metal death trap at 60mph or 160mph.
TL;DR : Dont give a shit about the numbers, its all in how you feel when driving it.
Lokky@reddit
When Sephiroth can hit you for 9999 then yeah 300 HP is not much.
In a car meant to be driven on public road it's more than most idiots with a drivers license should be allowed to drive
mxadema@reddit
Is all a weight to power ratio. 300 on a bike or a miata is lots. 300 in a pickup is ordinary.
Also, it is the power curve. 300 at 3000rpm and steady curve is great, 300 at 7000rpm with a build up curve is actually pretty lame.
We live in a world where 1000hp is pretty easily achievable. And a small block v8 or a line 6 makes 300 out of the box. Even some newer line4 turbo are 300 with some fine tuning. So people snub at a 300 number. But shove that in a strip civic, and it bougie down the strip.
tmanky@reddit
Power to weight is more indicative of quickness, imo. Roughly 200 hp per ton is where cars become properly fast to me.
hughcifer-106103@reddit
The 315 or so HP in my Boxster S is absolutely a blast. It’s 4-something seconds to 60 and supposedly in mid-12 second 1/4 mile which is actually pretty quick, but it’s everything else about the car that makes it almost magical.
hughcifer-106103@reddit
The 315 or so HP in my Boxster S is absolutely a blast. It’s 4-something seconds to 60 and supposedly in mid-12 second 1/4 mile which is actually pretty quick, but it’s everything else about the car that makes it almost magical.
-GenlyAI-@reddit
This again
mr_lab_rat@reddit
I understand that some people will always want more but I find 300-400 being the most practical for daily use.
darksideguyz@reddit
Even ~250 hp at the wheels is the making of one of the scariest cars I've ever driven. Yes a model 3 or ioniq or even a Cayman S (also well balanced) will smoke it, but from a fun to drive perspective nothing I've driven comes close
AdvantagePast2484@reddit
Yeah honestly I found in a city nobody needs a lot of acceleration, 0-60 of 5-7 seconds is more than enough to get between city blocks. I used to have a mustang and having a more powerful car jerk your head everytime you accelerate gets old fast, especially once you get older.
My Toyota has around 270hp which is perfect if I ever need to merge or overtake, it's not a comfortable feeling when the car lurches forward with speed because you have 800hp and pressed too hard. Smooth driving is where it's at in the city, I wanna ride in style and comfort not being bucked forward and back endlessly. I think this is something people have to realize with age though, because I didn't think like that in my teens. Then you also have to consider getting up to speed faster in traffic means less distance and time to slow down safely (arguably most important), and sports cars might have powerful braking but if the road isn't perfectly flat and the tires aren't making perfect contact your braking distance is much farther than the average SUV. It's all about balance and practicality imo.
jimmymarshall22@reddit
It's all relative I guess. My M140i has 340hp and it's plenty. If you'd have told people 20 years ago that hot hatches would have over 300hp from the factory, you'd have been laughed at.
The emergence of EV's has normalised these figures somewhat as well.
19Ben80@reddit
I’ve owned 17 cars to date of varying speed and driven a few very fast cars (4 seconds to 60)
Imho anything lower than about 6 seconds is pointless.. my current daily is 5.4 and it more than suffices
The problem with the stupidly quick cars is the experience is over so fast, hit the accelerator from a rolling start and 2 seconds later you are breaking the speed limit.
At least in a slightly slower car you get 3-4 seconds of joy before letting off.
ItsmeMarioITA@reddit
People who say 300hp is not enough have never driven one.
When I drove the Alfa Romeo 4C even 240hp felt like a lot.
On the straight everyone is a pro banging that accelerator pedal down, what about turns?
Snoo93079@reddit
People's brains have melted and what is "required" in a car these days is insane. And then they complain cars are too expensive.
PLOHNO@reddit
My current car, BMW 128i, and previous car, S2000, both have 230/240HP with a 0-60 in about 5.8 seconds and I very rarely feel like I need more power.
ObeyKauza@reddit
Lots of dudes don’t realize my 190Hp car gets to the same red light as their 1,200Hp car, respectively.
300Hp is a lot for the main roads imo, and is just enough to have some fun, anything more and you might as well be building a track toy. These are my opinions though.
AFrozen_1@reddit
Depends on the car of course. 300hp in say a truck is different from 300hp in a Miata.
MortimerDongle@reddit
Kind of weird to conflate horsepower and acceleration... Larger vehicles with 300 HP can be pretty slow.
nday-uvt-2012@reddit
I have to agree with OP. I have a 3.0 liter supercharged Audi A7 that had around 335 hp and bumped it to around 445 hp with an APR ECU download. And while it is more responsive, it also seems like a waste of time and money in that I’m still just poking around in crowded highway traffic and in town. Looking back, 335 hp was more than fine for me and my slowpoke driving!
Ftpini@reddit
It comes down to weight. 300hp on a 2100lbs car is enormous. But on a 4500lbs vehicle it isn't half as much relative to performance.
My first car was 124hp and weighed 2100 lbs. It was a genuinely fun car thanks to its light weight and its 5 speed manual transmission. But at this point in my life, I've experienced so many different cars that I know exactly what I want. I want to be able to pass and/or enter traffic without having to wait for a perfect opportunity. Having over 500hp makes that super simple. I don't want to go back.
icemonsoon@reddit
50hp is a lot when every one else has 20
just_another_bumm@reddit
My 5th Gen runner has 300 hp. I mean it's not nothing but I wouldn't call her fast.
newtonreddits@reddit
We really stretching 270 to 300 huh
just_another_bumm@reddit
You think 30 more would be huge? I'ma have to supercharge that hoe
newtonreddits@reddit
Yes there's a difference between 270 and 300 for sure.
schiesse@reddit
300 hp in my 2800 lb S10 is plenty. It definitely depends on the vehicle. If you can't put it down without spinning the tires, are you really using it much? I suppose at higher speeds it pulls hard but can still be a sketchy ride
Available_Dinner_388@reddit
My car is sitting around 370hp and I barely even push it.
Probably only hitting ~300 at most and it's enough for me. But I enjoy all of the noise from it; intake, turbo, BOV, exhaust, engine roar.
But that being said.. do i want a gt500 or ZL1? Absofuckinglutely.
RoyalTx1@reddit
Horsepower and speed become less overwhelming the more your brain gets accustomed to it. Power to weight also plays a huge difference as well. If you're driving a 149hp car and then switch to a 300hp car you'll notice it and vice versa.
Unique-Extent6968@reddit
I had a 63hp car that could overtake 300hp cars on track with a bit of work. Power isn't everything, but im sure most of us know that.
taticalgoose@reddit
Where you live and what kind of driving you do matters a lot. If you live in Texas or Florida where the roads are mostly straight and the only fun thing to do on public streets is highway roll racing then 300hp in even the lightest car isn't all that exciting. If you spend your time on tight backroads then it's a good amount of power in something small-ish.
There are a lot of casuals who who live near great back roads but never go to them and instead only do highway pulls. Big power is the only thing that feels exciting to them. I think they're doing it wrong but what do I know.
FordShelbyGTreeFiddy@reddit
Internet kids with no car: "Mustang/Supra/etc is slow"
Scott-from-Canada@reddit
It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. I just sold my Triumph TR6 and bought a 986 Boxster S (which does not qualify as a fast car by OP's standards). The 986 is thrilling to drive, but the limits are so much higher that I rarely get close to them on the street, and when I do, it's a risky move.
1ncehost@reddit
I didn't enjoy a cts v i owned because it only felt exciting over 70. It was a snooze to drive on normal roads at legal speeds. It was honestly a pain to drive because I'd accidentally be going at put me in prison speeds if I didn't pay close attention. I have had many cars before and since, but my sweet spot for enjoyment is also something around 300-350 hp. I have a 340 hp Macan S right now that is in so many ways the ideal car for me. It brings a smile to my face every time I drive it.
joestradamus_one@reddit
Man even 200hp is still plenty for your average person.
revvolutions@reddit
Yes but if less is more, just think how much more, more would be.
Many-Screen-3698@reddit
3.7 Q50 has 328hp and I think a 5.4 0-60, would love a faster car but when my foot hits the floor it always surprises me
03zx3@reddit
It's kids that don't remember that 0-60 in five seconds was pretty fast just a few years ago.
kwizzle@reddit
Yeah, don't get it either. had more fun in my 260hp Acura CL than my 320ish hp G37
Cojaro@reddit
My high school and college car had less than 110hp but gearing and low weight made it feel zippy. I was typically at the front of the line because most people don't drive their car at full tilt.
I could redline it and bang through 1st to 3rd and be only at 45mph LOL #slowcarfast
Moessus@reddit
Some people don't like decently quick. They are a vocal minority. I am one of them.
averagemaleuser86@reddit
It's because cars with factory 400-500hp are pretty obtainable now by the normal worker... aging coyote mustangs which boast 400hp+ can be bought for around $20k now...
crashbandyh@reddit
It's not fast or a lot, that's a tiny bit faster than regular traffic. So just get over it lol
BizMoo@reddit
Here in the UK, that level of performance is more than enough. I've certainly experienced wet cambered English country lanes with tractors pulling out with terrible lighting in the dark! My performance demands are really with the tyres and brakes, not the engine. But in North America (I haven't been yet), I do understand the desire for performance in the engine side of things (bigger space).
RedditorStrikesBack@reddit
Tell me you aren’t a car person, without saying you aren’t a car person.
KeyMechanic2973@reddit
I drive 1000+hp cars everyday and its really not an issue putting the power down with a proper suspension setup. Sure I can break the speed limit instantly, but there's plenty of roads near me where I can do 120+mph safely, which I do often. Not to mention driving fast cars to their limit is quite enjoyable. So to me, 300hp in anything other than a motorcycle, is a turd
Dileth@reddit
I had a 300 hp car, wanted more, not disappointed
Bizzzle80@reddit
460 and 3.6 is more fun
sabisyns@reddit
Depends on the size of the tires if you can spin them. 300 total is less than what my I use in my car in eco mode. There’s more fun to be had my man. 300 is definitely not the upper limit of fun to be had in a car. And keep in mind, you rarely use all the hp a car has so if your car has a max of 300 chances are you’ve only seen like 200-250 or so.
Few_Highlight1114@reddit
In my opinion I think cars 400hp and over should require a special license to drive. Hell maybe even 350 should be the limit.
You just dont need that amount of power in everyday driving. Especially if the vehicle is big like a truck/suv, these things dont need to be moving anywhere quickly and theyre likely to cause the most damage from wreckless driving.
futuredxrk@reddit
300 hp is enough power to get you in trouble with the law but not enough to win any boyraces lol
L8_2_PartE@reddit
It's all relative.
I have a car with 250HP. It's also big and heavy. I still keep up with traffic, and most times I'm in the left lane passing timid drivers in faster cars.
I also have a car with 550HP that does 0-60 in "Holy shit I'm speeding!" It's fun when the light turns green or when I'm entering the interstate, but that's about it for fun. I don't race on the streets or on the track.
However, that extra power is wonderful on the freeway. In my slower car, the brake is my main tool for avoiding idiots. In my faster car, I can either brake or accelerate if I suddenly need to be somewhere else. I like that more than I like flying away from a green light.
DoomDash@reddit
My 2400 lbs FC is pretty dang fast at 300whp.
Subieworx@reddit
It’s not a lot but it’s good for most people
NorthStarZero@reddit
My race car had 350-ish wheel Ho from 4300 to 7700 and at 2700lbs, it was a rocketship.
The Stealth is 315-ish wheel hp (it can do more, but I have to sort out a MAF overrun) but at 3700lbs, it isn’t as fast. But it isn’t slow, either. I have scared the shit out of people off the line.
Once you hit 500 hp, hooking it up becomes a real problem.
burner94_@reddit
It also depends on the average roads / biomes in your area. Owned a 80hp hatchback for 10 years and it never felt painfully slow. Slow, definitely. But never dangerous or anything.
Salt-Truck-7882@reddit
Power to weight ratio, people!
Kavani18@reddit
My mother had a 2020 Ford Explorer with the EcoBoost pushing 300hp and that thing flew for an SUV. Never felt slow at all
ghost_zn8@reddit
230hp pushing 2800lbs still has enough pep to give me butterflies, and that's all that matters. Horsepower dick measuring contests are for Instagram influencers.
driftking428@reddit
I'm in the Ferrari/Chevy category. I have 300 horsepower. But my truck is not very fast.
Ruddington9@reddit
My Golf R is 1500kg and 310bhp . Plenty fast
phxbimmer@reddit
My 540i has just under 300hp and with a 6-speed manual it’s plenty fast. I can do burnouts quite easily and I can pass on the highway with ease. You really don’t need much more unless you’re drag racing or wanting bragging rights.
tri_9@reddit
I wouldn’t say it “a lot”. It’s “plenty” for some decent fun.
Ok-Improvement-3670@reddit
You are correct. That doesn’t mean that you cannot use more, if you can control it. Most people on the road with 500-600hp cars only use 300 at most anyway. I’m constantly behind some AMG car or M car puttering around as if their engine will blow up if they exceed 2500 RPM.
gavinwinks@reddit
Depends on the car it has to power. I have a Corolla that weighs 2200 lbs and I’m trying to put a 300 hp engine and I know they’ll feel like a lot.
ajrf92@reddit
Well... If you aren't experienced enough, it's pretty clear that 300hp are too many horses for a car.
1995LexusLS400@reddit
It's because it depends what it's in. 300hp in a Ford F350 is not a lot. 300hp in a Caterham is.
CameronCoppen_@reddit
Social platforms like tik tok have really distorted what people believe is a “fast/quick” car. I get the sense that many of those people believe you gotta have 600 hp to have a car worth respecting. It’s insane. I have a 2017 Cadenza with 300 horsepower and I can get around anyone I want on the highway with little effort. Plus, most people don’t even need or know how to control a car with much more than that
Burntfury@reddit
Yeah you ain't really wrong. But thats why Power to weight matters. My 300kw at wheels Evo 9. Feels like a rocket ship. But then again not much out there's that's as fun.
Meister1888@reddit
90bhp GTI was the most fun car I ever drove.
Prestigious-Solid342@reddit
My RC350 has 306. It’s definitely not a “quick” car. Top speed is there but the acceleration is lacking. The handling while I’m sure would be fine for a much better driver, just doesn’t give me enough confidence to drive it near its limit. Even then it’s still faster than 80% of the cars on the road today. I still love my car to death even though I’d probably get gapped by a base 4series 🫠.
undertheolginkotree@reddit
My 69 Lotus Elan has “only” 230hp, but it’s also only pushing 1450 pounds. SRT driver’s are fun to mess with…
lynch1986@reddit
200hp per ton is a nice fast road build for me. You can row through the gears without going to prison.
wolfwell69@reddit
My wifes BMW M235 is rated at 320 HP but it has twin turbos so it is scary quick. I have driven fast, well handling cars my whole life but this car kinda scares me on the road. It is plenty quick/fast enough for me especially with all the distracted drivers on the road.
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Odd-Refrigerator-425@reddit
I largely agree, but truly it's really a question of power:weight.
My Focus RS felt like pretty much ideal as far usable power. It was fun, but you do gotta be mindful otherwise it's really easy to get into "supremely expensive ticket or even license revocation" territory.
TheReaperSovereign@reddit
"A lot" is a vague term with no standard definition so it's fairly subjective
IMO, most 300 ish cars feel "quick" to me and 400ish feels "fast"
Huntervf@reddit
I agree. Too many people focus on bench racing with numbers that I suspect have never driven anything with notable power. Having owned a 500-hp fun car and driven 700+ hp fun cars, I think 500-600 is the max for street cars. At that point, you can still mostly utilize that power in a reasonably legal fashion ... you'll still smoke the tires like crazy from a launch but once rolling, provided you have decent tires, you can get that to the ground for some fun acceleration without reaching triple digits. Going beyond 600, you'll just have the computer constantly cutting in for traction control, even at 100 mph, which has no business on the street anyway. Or, you turn off TC and just pedal the car or do more smoke shows at speed, which also has no business on the street. So at that point, you're bascially paying for bragging rights on a number versus power you can actually enjoy on a daily basis.
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