Israeli strikes kill 22 in Beirut as Hezbollah official evades assassination

Posted by roydez@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 351 comments

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tinkertailormjollnir@reddit

“Human shields”

But there was no enemy directly behind the shields, as too frequently is the case. Just the hypothetical, the suggestion, the atrocity propaganda and manufactured consent. The rape tunnels full of terrorists. The garage full of rockets in a country without garages. The hospitals lined with invisible Hamas that foreign doctors never interacted with. (While using civilians as literal shields strapped to vehicles or held at gunpoint in front of soldiers in documented ways, of course. The most moral army still roof knocking on tents with two ton bombs, bombing safe zones they declared. Cutting off food and medicines because “Hamas takes them.” Proportions of “acceptable deaths” when the numbers aren’t at all known, and the deaths are still 70% women and children with the highest rate of peds amputations and child murders in decades.

The justifications that turned on their head to affect Israeli civilians wouldn’t fly or conveniently have some caveat or exclusionary excuse, all because some citizens lives are simply worth more than others. Because collective punishment only applies when it happens to them. And when it is done to others by them, it’s rapist and abuser level apologetics of “blame Hamas” with no responsibility or agency for their own response.

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ArtificialLandscapes@reddit

The mighty IDF wouldn't spend millions of dollars attacking targets with no value. Use your noggin. Just one airstrike can costs insane amounts of money, no one would waste that on a target that wasn't a threat. Stop covering for the terrorists and their using civilians as bulletproof vests. They fortify themselves and hide/launch missiles in civilian infrastructure.

You can't claim to care about human rights if you overlook, ignore, or downplay that major component.

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valentc@reddit

The mighty IDF wouldn't spend millions of dollars attacking targets with no value. Use your noggin

They do this so often we have tons of video evidence filmed by the IDF themselves.

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTFaHvG8B/

Stop covering for the terrorists and their using civilians as bulletproof vests. They fortify themselves and hide/launch missiles in civilian infrastructure

The IDF regularly engages in using Palestinians as human shields.

You can't claim to care about human rights and overlook, ignore, or downplay that major component

Holy shit, the irony of this statement is staggering.

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Sonofaconspiracy@reddit

The IDF headquarters are surrounded by civilian buildings, they'd do the exact same shit if under attack. Also it actually doesn't matter if Hamas are using human shields, because killing hundreds of innocent refugees to get one commander is still fucking evil shit

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squinklers@reddit

I'm sorry how many commanders did they get on October 7? 😂😂😂

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ArtificialLandscapes@reddit

Lol, TikTok videos uploaded by Al Jazeera count as evidence now? Why not just link me to an Alex Jones rant on InfoWars?

This is Trump supporter-level cringe.

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Unable_Duck9588@reddit

Denying responsibility in an arrogant way may make you sleep better at night, but reality is different.

Israel will never know peace unless it changes pretty much everything about itself.

But you don’t care, you’ll just run off to the US or wherever you came from when shit hits the fan, its the few israelis who have no where to go that will be suffering.

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ArtificialLandscapes@reddit

Denying responsibility? You're someone of some ill-defined something you don't even know.

Israel will never know peace unless it changes pretty much everything about itself.

Is this a tacit threat of terrorism? Sure does read like it.

But you don’t care, you’ll just run off to the US or wherever you came from when shit hits the fan, its the few israelis who have no where to go that will be suffering.

Nothing is going to hit the fan.

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Unable_Duck9588@reddit

The plain truth is that Israel needs to play nice with its neighbours or it will never ever know peace, it hasn’t seen peace since before its creation and still doesn’t and never will.

No you can try to paint this as a theat of terrorism since that used to work, but as we see clearly, this is not the case anymore as even Israeli allies are distancing themselves from what the belligerant state Israel has become.

If your average Israeli wants to feel safe, and not feel the need to live on the edge 24/7, it needs to stop its colonial ambitions, poor treatment of its minorities and apartheid.

Unless the terrorists that serve in the current Israel government such as ben gvir, smotrich and bibi, it will continue to lose support from everyone around and away from it.

As I said, Maybe typing bold arrogant words on reddit makes you feel better and fuels your persecution complex, but the fact of the matter is that Israel needs to stop and change.

Or this will just continue.

Its not a threat, its a fact of life.

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ArtificialLandscapes@reddit

The plain truth is that Israel needs to play nice with its neighbours or it will never ever know peace, it hasn’t seen peace since before its creation and still doesn’t and never will.

It's pretty peaceful where I am now. We're retaliating against the evil terrorists on four fronts, how is that playing nice?

No you can try to paint this as a theat of terrorism since that used to work, but as we see clearly, this is not the case anymore as even Israeli allies are distancing themselves from what the belligerant state Israel has become.

If I watched Al Jazeera, or some Middle Eastern media company all day, I would believe that too. The mighty IDF just crippled the most powerful terrorist organization in the world in less than a month and neutralized not only it's entirely senior leadership, but its secondary, tertiary, and quaternary lines of secession with the support of the EU and the USA. I'm confused on how you interpret that as 'distancing.'

The rest of that rant reads like a coping mechanism. Must be sad for Israelis to live rent free in your head. I can tell your pretty emotional about this. Find a hobby to invest in or focus on your family instead.

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Unable_Duck9588@reddit

Denying reality is a coping mechanism and you’re the one who has been doing it throughout the thread… it’s interesting that Israel is both safe, and under threat at the same time all the time. I mean just reading what your leaders say about you being under threat for decades kinda proved that you’re trying your best to deny the realoty of the situation.

You may not admit it here, or even to yourself yet, but everything I said is true. Support for Israel is already drying up, your leaders are already spouting the “us against the world” rhetoric constantly, the next step in the fascist playbook is escalating and dragging everyone into a war. Even if Israel wins that war, it will still suffer greatly and only open itself to more hostilities, just like it always has throughout its exsistence.

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ArtificialLandscapes@reddit

Denying reality is a coping mechanism

The reality is that the glorious IDF are Freedom Fighters. I'm not sure what you're trying to get at, Israel isn't a dangerous place. The Iron Dome and our friends in the EU and America assure that.

It's too bad your dictator hasn't gotten all the tech that we have, such as F-35s, even though your NATO/OTAN. They know you guys can't be trusted. Very revealing that they had to impose sanctions on your government from buying faulty Russian aircraft.

The most dangerous place I lived at was Afghanistan...which is ironic, seeing that you're Turkish. I worked alongside your military and other coalition forces in Kabul. Good people. Best thing about it were the free doner kababs at the Turkish DFAC!

You may not admit it here, or even to yourself yet, but everything I said is true. Support for Israel is already drying up, your leaders are already spouting the “us against the world” rhetoric constantly, the next step in the fascist playbook is escalating and dragging everyone into a war.

So, is that the spin your majority government-controlled media is feeding you?

Even if Israel wins that war, it will still suffer greatly and only open itself to more hostilities, just like it always has throughout its existence.

Nah, I'll be okay brother, I'm not suffering. I'm actually chilling and listening to the Turksh artist, Büşra Kayıkçı, get down on the piano. She's pro-Palestinian like you, I assume, but is very talented and looks a bit like the Turkish girl I dated in Berlin for a while.

Lucky for me, she isn't religious and doesn't cover her hair. She also had very soft skin. I'm honestly considering seeing her again.

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Unable_Duck9588@reddit

Ah, so you have nothing to actually say and have to resort to childish rhetoric.

Not surprising honestly.

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ArtificialLandscapes@reddit

What do you want to talk about, then?

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valentc@reddit

Wow. This might be the most cope comment I've ever read. It's more like you're trying to tell yourself it's ok to think what you think and not anyone else.

It's ok buddy, I hope your inner conflict can be solved without being a warmonger. Because this is kinda sad.

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ArtificialLandscapes@reddit

The cope is from the evil racist terrorist sympathizers. We're kicking ass and taking names.

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valentc@reddit

Lol, TikTok videos uploaded by Al Jazeera count as evidence now? Why not just link me to an Alex Jones rant on InfoWars

There it is. You dont actually care. Those are all direct videos from the IDF themselves. They literally show their crimes before naming them. These fucker's film themselves committing war crimes and you don't care because the outlet that reported it.

YOU DON'T CARE SO STOP ACTING LIKE YOU DO. You are not on the side of good for supporting Israel unconditionally.

I hope you get paid well for supporting such monsters. You're so much worse than any Hamas simp. Fuck you.

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godintraining@reddit

You are seriously saying that you would not kill civilians because it’s too expensive…

Only if you have a twisted view of what terrorism is

There are literally hundreds if not thousands of people in this sub that believe literally just that.

Why would creating fear amongst the general population of Beirut help them?

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tinkertailormjollnir@reddit

Dahiya doctrine, developed by Israel.

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Cannolium@reddit

The logic is to harm the civilian population so much that they will then turn against the militants, forcing the enemy to sue for peace

None of the citations labeled there back this up. They targeted civilian infrastructure because it was being used for military purposes. They also evacuated before striking per your own source.

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tinkertailormjollnir@reddit

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/11/10/israel-dahiya-doctrine-disproportionate-strategy-military-gaza-idf/

https://imeu.org/article/the-dahiya-doctrine-and-israels-use-of-disproportionate-force

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/05/israel-disproportionate-force-tactic-infrastructure-economy-civilian-casualties

https://depts.washington.edu/globalhealthjustice/israels-dahiya-doctrine-intentionally-violates-international-humanitarian-law/

Yeah, plenty of sources out there about it and its continued application through today.

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Cannolium@reddit

Literally none of these back the claim that they are targeting civilians to get them to turn against Hamas. They are targeting civilian infrastructure that is also used for military purposes.

If only you could read your own sources

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tinkertailormjollnir@reddit

Ah you must be Illiterate or regarded

“The Dahiya Doctrine is an Israeli military doctrine that calls for the use of massive, disproportionate force and the deliberate targeting of civilians and civilian infrastructure.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Fact_Finding_Mission_on_the_Gaza_Conflict

Goldstone report

The report focused on 36 cases that it said constituted a representative sample. In 11 of these episodes, it said the Israeli military carried out direct attacks against civilians, including some in which civilians were shot “while they were trying to leave their homes to walk to a safer place, waving white flags”.[50] Talking to Bill Moyers Journal, Goldstone said that the committee chose 36 incidents that represented the highest death toll, where there seemed to be little or no military justification for what happened.[66] According to the report, another alleged war crime committed by IDF include “wanton” destruction of food production, water and sewerage facilities; the report also asserts that some attacks, which were supposedly aimed to kill small number of combatants amidst significant numbers of civilians, were disproportionate.[50]

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Cannolium@reddit

Yes of course you reach those conclusions if you believe terrorists don't imbed themselves into civilian infrastructure.

But there remains no actionable evidence that Israel is targeting civilians. They target civilian infrastructure that is used by terrorists for military operations.

The doctrine doesn't say "target civilian" it says to target the infrastructure that is used by terrorists. You also conveniently keep disregarding the fact that they ordered civilians to evacuate the areas.

The conflict is also nothing like the Holocaust so you can stop with the grandstanding now. Holocaust inversion is yet another tool of the antisemitic. Fitting that you would choose to do so very publicly.

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godintraining@reddit

Because around half of the population support Hezbollah and the other half wants to get rid of Hezbollah because they are scared of what Israel may do, and they want peace.

If the people scared of Israel increase, Hezbollah position gets weaker.

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Cannolium@reddit

Last I checked, the support for them is vanishing and to begin with wasn't high because of the port explosion in 2020. Hez's support plays little role in them having power — they rule through force.

The citizens of Lebanon hold no power.

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godintraining@reddit

A quick Google search for sources outside of US or Israeli media shows that around 30% of the Lebanese population supports Hezbollah. Beyond that, a significant portion of people, while not fully backing Hezbollah, trust them more than they trust Israel. Especially after what happened in Gaza. It’s often seen as choosing the lesser of two evils.

And please, spare me the justification that bombing civilians in Beirut is somehow doing them a favor by “freeing them from Hezbollah.” This argument is complete nonsense. We’re not helping anyone by destroying a country and killing innocent people, we’re tearing it apart. We made the same disastrous mistake in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and countless other places. It’s time to stop pretending we know best and stop justifying the killing of civilians for the so-called “greater good” of their own country.

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Cannolium@reddit

I'm not saying that. I'm saying logically it serves no purpose.

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godintraining@reddit

But it does, in the short term it does have a purpose. If the society start to fall apart, it will be easier to identify Hezbollah members, it will also help to empty the streets so that it will be easier to identify targets.

Then why does Israel keep begging the US and other countries for weapons?

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ArtificialLandscapes@reddit

To minimize civilian casualties you guys claim to care so much about.

If it weren't for precision-guided weapons, you would cry murder even more because the only available options would be missiles that aren't as precise.

I'm beginning to think some people want more civilians dead, so they can have more reasons to reinforce their hatred of Israelis/Jews.

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Fuzzy_Yogurt_Bucket@reddit

“Give us nice weapons or will be even more psychopathic and genocidal.”

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ArtificialLandscapes@reddit

Come on, dude. If you're going to strawman, there's no point in having a serious discussion with you.

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Fuzzy_Yogurt_Bucket@reddit

I’m sorry, but that is exactly what you’re saying.

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ArtificialLandscapes@reddit

No, it's you putting your own spin and words on a rational decision. That's called a strawman ie, putting words into someone's mouth.

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ArtificialLandscapes@reddit

I don't think you understand how aid in the form of weapons works. It's not free.

That’s not the majority of immigrants to Israel, they’re Europeans.

Why do you think the melanoma rates are so high and you’ve banned DNA testing 🤣

European colonizers in the Middle East larping as indigenous peoples of the land.

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ArtificialLandscapes@reddit

What difference does it make who they are? You can't answer the question because you know that it's an inconvenient truth for you, and makes your ideology look bad.

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Leather-Ad-7799@reddit

What ideology do I ascribe to?

You ascribe to genocide denial and defense of killing civilians; colonization to boot.

And yes it matters where they’re from/who they are. Colonization is a disgusting practice, one expected to be met with resistance

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ArtificialLandscapes@reddit

What ideology do I ascribe to?

The one that intimidated the Jews into leave every religious theocracy in the Middle East?

You ascribe to genocide denial and defense of killing civilians; colonization to boot.

In order for me to ascribe to genocide denial and deliberate killing of civilians, there has to be a genocide and proof of deliberate killing of civilians. As it stands now, the evidence isn't there. However, I do think it's telling that you, like others who share your fantasies, ignore the evil terrorists using civilians to wage war.

This infantilizing them is quite offensive. You're essentially saying that the terrorists and their sponsors are incapable of being held accountable for their actions. It's shameful that you reduce them to such low expectations.

I don't think you understand what the word colonizer means.

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Leather-Ad-7799@reddit

Every single human aid organization is AnTiSeMeTiC for pointing out that it’s a genocide in Gaza.

The UN, amnesty international, government organizations like b’et Salam, US agency for international development, state departments refugee bureau, etc etc.

You can lie and say it’s not a genocide, but Israel has fulfilled all of the Geneva conventions laid out pillars of genocide, and everyone except Israelis know this.

It’s ok though, I’m not trying to convince a paid hasbara bot on Reddit, history and your grandchildren will look back at you with disgust, just as the nazis grandchildren did, and the genocida regimes before them.

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akbermo@reddit

Dude can you read? I asked why should Americans pay for them? It’s a really simple question that you’re evading, why should Americans pay for your war?

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ArtificialLandscapes@reddit

Because Israel is an oasis of freedom, justice, democracy, and secularism surrounded by a sea of dictatorships, subjugation of women, oppression of the LGBTQ, and religious extremism.

The war on terrorism never ended and has been ongoing since 9/11.

Also, I'm a dual citizen, so they're coming from my pocket too.

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No one is "dropping weapons on civilians." I'm not sure why the Pro-Pallys and pro-terrorists have stuck to this lie.

When you look into the cost of a single airstrike, the funds it takes to fuel aircraft, the logistics required to maintain the weapons, and the price of intelligence gathering needed to find a legitimate strike, this argument simply doesn't hold up. It's a bold-faced lie.

The IDF and IAF wouldn't waste millions of dollars striking civilians with high-value airborne assets that aren't high value targets. Take this line of reasoning to someone who has served in your military. I worked with coalition forces, including Aussie soldiers, in Afghanistan and they will tell you the same thing.

Regardless, this isn't proof of Israel 'literally bombing civilians." If anything, it further reinforces the fact that combatants mingling amongst civilians is the war crime.

IDF 100, terrorist sympathizers 0.

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Nothing in your reply proves my reply false, because you can't.

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Ropetrick6@reddit

In 2020, Netanyahu said that Israel was going to annex the entire West Bank, an action that is in violation of international law.

With that in mind, the repeated purges of Palestinians by the Israeli-backed settlers can only bedone for the pursuit of one of two things: the genocide of the Palestinian people, or the preparation for the illegal annexation of the region by Israel. As these settlers have been armed, supported, and defended by the IOF, they are pretty clearly a part of the greater Israeli strategy.

The 70% women and children thing is disinformation. The reporting of the number of deaths relied on media reports which overstates the number of women and children killed. The UN themselves revised the figure down to 52% women and children, and the children figure also includes 16 and 17 year old Hamas terrorists.

But don't we need numbers for this lol? We know that 2800 people were hurt and that twelves among them died and two of the deaths were children. Those are the only numbers I know and it wouldn't qualify as the best operation ever in my book even if the ten adults were combattants.

So I was wondering if you guys had any source showing that the combattant/civilian ratio made this one of the best operation ever because this seem to be a wild claim to make without any numbers to back it off.

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DrVeigonX@reddit

Only number I could find personally is from Wikipedia

An unnamed source said 1,500 Hezbollah fighters were taken out of action due to injuries, with many blinded or having lost their hands

DrVeigonX@reddit

Only number I could find personally is from Wikipedia

An unnamed source said 1,500 Hezbollah fighters were taken out of action due to injuries, with many blinded or having lost their hands

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Sierra_12@reddit

Hezbollah themselves claimed most of the people injured were their own members which essentially confirms that civilians casualties were very much on the low end.

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Future-Muscle-2214@reddit

So the source is some words spoken by someone part of a terrorist org without any numbers to back it off? I was asking OP for numbers since they were claiming that it was one of the most precise attack ever made.

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ScaryShadowx@reddit

Please, every single person in the world knows if such a 'targeted' attack had been carried out in a Western or Western allied nation, it would have immediately been called a terrorist attack.

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Status_Winter@reddit

the man with 6th largest Potato harvest in your case

Haha I get it, because we’re 🌈☘️Irish!☘️🌈

Let’s leave personal attacks out of this sub yeah?

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Linny911@reddit

Seriously bro, Israel should just stop dropping bombs unless only the militants life will be magically snuffed out. That'll allow me to sleep warmly at night, and if Israel is to be locked in eternal conflict by cuffing it self then that's the price I'm willing to pay.

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Antique_Cricket_4087@reddit

Lol Israel will only get into more conflict by doing this. You think the families of civilians getting killed by Israel will grow up thinking they want peace with Israel?

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bathtubsplashes@reddit

They can't even defeat the current crop of Hamas fighters, let alone the generation that Israel are de facto recruiting currently through their actions

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NoHetro@reddit

if they kill hamas leaders with civilian casualties

oh look they are killing civilians

if they dont kill hamas because there will be too many casualties

oh look they can't defeat hamas

literally can't win.

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AnotherGreedyChemist@reddit

Terrorists rarely lose in conventional war because of how they operate. The ONLY way to dismantle terrorist networks is to somehow come to a peaceful solution. And that will mean concessions on both sides and a solution that not anyone is gleeful about but it's enough to keep everyone chill.

Northern Ireland is a great example of this.

This isn't just a failure of Israel or Palestine though but of the entire international community.

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NoHetro@reddit

Northern Ireland is a great example of this.

but it's not comparable, England didn't want to completely exterminate all the Irish.

Meanwhile Hamas charter literally says they want the extermination of all Jews and the state of Israel, not to mention all the other similar Terrorist militia like Hezbollah and the Huthis.

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AnotherGreedyChemist@reddit

I mean, a few generations prior there were very influential folk with that in mind towards the Irish. Everyone's heard of Malthus!

https://www.acsh.org/news/2020/05/14/irish-potato-famine-how-belief-overpopulation-leads-human-evil-14792

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NoHetro@reddit

so were there any Irish that wanted the complete extermination of all the English? come on man.

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AnotherGreedyChemist@reddit

Oh okay, well let's just kill them all. That will solve the problem.

Come on, man. FFS.

You don't want peace.

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Tokyo was absolutely leveled. One of the reasons it wasn't a nuke target was because there wasn't much of it left.

This idea that the allies didn't indiscriminately target civilians is just false.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden

25,000 killed.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo

16 square miles destroyed. 100,000 civilians dead. 1,000,000 more displaced.

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Antique_Cricket_4087@reddit

I would assume that they would bomb those jungle areas as necessary to flush them out because that... makes sense, probably not Tokyo assuming no Japanese soldiers still fighting on.

Nah, they would bomb Tokyo and claim that a lone soldier was using the neighborhood as a human shield.

the Jews of Warsaw ghettos weren't engaging in eternal acts of terrorism against the Germans and were comical enough to not expect the treatment they got.

Neither are most Palestinians. But the Warsaw reprissals happened after Nazis were killed by Jews inside Warsaw. Are you somehow claiming that it justified the brutal response of the Nazis against the ghetto as a whole?

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Linny911@reddit

Nah, they would bomb Tokyo and claim that a lone soldier was using the neighborhood as a human shield.

Uh, well, the fact that they could've yet they didn't should tell you your speculation is incorrect.

I don't really know what happened then but my view on conflict is that parties are justified in whatever is necessary, no more, no less, based on the circumstances, which is in line with rules of war. Only the intentional unnecessary acts are to be prohibited.

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Future-Muscle-2214@reddit

Easy to have a great civlian fo militant ratio when you can claim that everyone is a militant.

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themightycatp00@reddit

Hezbollah doesn't hide their dead

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bathtubsplashes@reddit

Your crowd hides dead Gazans under mountains of rubble and then spends 12 months telling everyone not to believe the death figures

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TehHeavy@reddit

Hamas is responsible for dead gazans.

Don't expect to that a war without any consequences.

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bathtubsplashes@reddit

What a country, murders at least 6% of an entire population and then says "they made me do it"

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BabyJesus246@reddit

Israel invaded Lebanon 3 times prior to 2024. Hezbollah didn’t exist for the first 2.

And why exactly did they do that? I'm familiar with the history I'm just curious if you'll be honest about it.

You’d think an American would have learned something from massive failures in Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq. The playbook is literally doing the opposite of your claimed goals.

Lol yup definitely smarter to take a page from the countries that let in those terror groups. Lebanon has sure been thriving ever since Hezbollah took over.

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AidsNipple@reddit

It's like walking into Dennis Reynolds room in Always Sunny, the minute that door closes my phone automatically gets sent a text from Netanyahu.

Intertwining of civilian and military is the rule. Do you know how many times Ive accidentally found myself at the Pentagon when trying to get to Reagan National Airport? the HQ Its freaking confusing, you actually have to be ALERT NOT to suddenly end up

How many military bases are not only embedded within cities, but how many cities have sprung up around military bases. Entire civilian cities like Colorado Springs, Ft. Worth, etc. that exist because of the military base there. Does Annapolois even exist if not for the Naval Yard. Hello, does Baltimore?

So what do you think would happen if America was suddenly

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Justavisitor-0538@reddit

Almost every army ever.

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bathtubsplashes@reddit

Times of Israel

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-puts-extremist-homophobic-politician-in-charge-of-israels-jewish-identity/

Haaretz

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-06-20/ty-article/.premium/ultra-orthodox-israeli-lawmaker-homosexuality-bigger-threat-to-israel-than-hamas/00000188-d9f0-d5fc-ab9d-dbf8140e0000

BBC

Netanyahu signs Israel coalition deal with anti-LGBT Noam party

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63780509

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Ropetrick6@reddit

Murdering children is doing nothing for the LGBTQ+ population, especially not for the LGBTQ+ community in Palestine. The blockade and airstrikes kills them just as well as it kills the cis het civilians of Palestine.

Also, generally freedom fighters are supposed to OPPOSE the Apartheid ethnostate, not be its military branch. I think you may have your definition of "freedom" mixed up.

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Leather-Ad-7799@reddit

You are arguing with a basement dwelling bot. There is 0 interest in a productive conversation he is simply running through the classic hasbara talking points.

We killed a terrorist
Maybe they were human shields protecting a “terrorist”
Actually it was just a mistake, we won’t apologize for that.
Don’t you know Arabs deserve XYZ because they treat LGBTQ people poorly, ooh and women too, that’s why they deserve bombing bro.
Mask off moment: yeah the children are future khamas/hezbollah/terrorists

It’s usually in that order and mix in some AnTiSeMeTiC accusations. Nothing new for these clowns defending legit ethnic cleansing and genocide.

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Ropetrick6@reddit

Oh, I'm fully aware that they're not here in good faith, I'm simply acting it out for the observers who fall for this shit. You can't help the people who are telling the lies, but you can help people not believe the BS coming out of the liar's mouth.

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tiddernitram@reddit

No fucking way you believe this with a straight face

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rattleandhum@reddit

I refuse to believe even militant Israelis think like this

you'd be surprised.

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StrangelyArousedSeal@reddit

this is so on the nose that I actually find it more believable that you're some Iranian psy-op designed to make people find Israelis at large even more unhinged and obnoxious than they already do, than you being an actual Israeli citizen, christ

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rattleandhum@reddit

Google the ASK project (on youtube). It's an American-Israeli who goes around interviewing Israelis on the street. It's quite... illuminating, to say the least.

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valentc@reddit

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTFaHvG8B/

The IDF is the complete opposite of honorable. They're a bunch of fucking monsters who have no honor or discipline.

The war crimes the IDF are committing in Northern Gaza and West Bank are absolutely disgusting. you fuckers complain about terrorist supporters while supporting the IDF just because it's Israel or whatever. You're literally a terrorist supporter, but because they're killing Palestinians, it's somehow ok.

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Worth_Plum_6510@reddit

😂😂😂😂😂

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AegisT_@reddit

Literally could not make this shit up, actual textbook propaganda

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Rodrigo-thebabi@reddit

r/worldnews

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babycart_of_sherdog@reddit

So, it's open season in Lebanon with no bag limit? Even UNIFIL is a valid target?

Anyone who fights Israel is anti-semitic, anyone who Israel kills is a valid target. What a winning combination. Damn, if the US just sent Israel to fight Vietnam in the '60s-'70s, they would have easily won without the ROE issues... /s

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fajadada@reddit

Hezbollah was ordered by the UN to disarm South Lebanon i guess if they had this wouldn’t be happening?

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JustACharacterr@reddit

“The teacher told Tommy to stop being mean to me and he didn’t, so really it’s Tommy’s fault I’m now punching the teacher”

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NoHetro@reddit

more like I'm going to kick tommy in the balls and warn the teacher to get out of the way, but the teacher insists on stepping in the way conveniently to Tommy's benefit.

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JustACharacterr@reddit

Oh yeah I’m sure Hezbollah was totally operating in the middle of the UN base the Israelis were lobbing tank shells into watchtowers where UN soldiers were actively standing. The UN totally got in the way of the weeks of completely unmolested special forces operations and bombings that the IDF have undertaken, they’ve been such a hindrance on the IDF’s invasion up to this point.

The UN isn’t protecting Hezbollah. At worst you can call them completely useless…..which doesn’t justify shelling UN troops. Israel doesn’t have a special right that means they can dictate when and where UN forces are allowed to be.

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NoHetro@reddit

is that what i said? how do you know that the hezb doesn't have ammo and bunkers close to or under the UN bases? they might not even know it, besides were they really never able to catch hezb members carrying rockets or launching them at Israel for the past 11 months+, never?

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JustACharacterr@reddit

is that what I said?

Yes.

the teacher insists on stepping in the way conveniently to Tommy’s benefit

is you saying that the UN is protecting Hezbollah. Own up to your arguments.

how do you know that the hezb doesn’t have ammo and bunkers close to or under the base

Because the UN has occupied these areas for over a decade and creates incredibly detailed, publicly available reports every single month about Hezbollah activity that is observed, and they don’t allow Hezbollah operations in or near UN military bases. Israel firing tank rounds at UN guard watchtowers wouldn’t help find these mythical depots anyway, so why pretend that’s remotely what was happening?

besides they were never really able to catch hezb members

Unilaterally attacking Hezbollah is not part of the UN mandate. Not attacking Hezbollah fighters is not a reason for Israel to fire tank rounds at UN soldiers.

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NoHetro@reddit

is you saying that the UN is protecting Hezbollah. Own up to your arguments.

nope, i said stepping in the way, they might be intentionally defending hezb but there's no way to know, what we know is they are in the way of Israel.

Israel firing tank rounds at UN guard watchtowers wouldn’t help find these mythical depots anyway, so why pretend that’s remotely what was happening?

because from Israel's perspective they can't be sure the UN is not helping Hezb since they didn't keep the peace in stopping hezb from launching rockets at Israel.

Unilaterally attacking Hezbollah is not part of the UN mandate. Not attacking Hezbollah fighters is not a reason for Israel to fire tank rounds at UN soldiers.

ok so they are completely useless, then get the fuck out of the way.

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JustACharacterr@reddit

I said stepping in the way . . . they are in the way of Israel

When you say that the UN is stepping in front of Hezbollah and is in Israel’s way of delivering harm to Hezbollah, you are literally using the dictionary definition of protecting, “to keep safe from harm or injury”. What a pedantic argument you insist on having.

they can’t be sure the UN isn’t helping Hezb

Israel is a member state of the United Nations. They can have diplomatic personnel on site at UN bases if they felt the need to investigate. Shooting tank rounds are UN soldiers who are doing literally nothing except standing in their base is not a way to see if the UN is “helping Hezb”

then get the fuck out of the way

Israel has absolutely no legal or moral right to threaten UN military forces with violence because they’re “useless”, and they have absolutely no legal or moral right to invade another nation’s territory and threaten UN forces with violence if they don’t abandon their legally mandated positions. Israel’s government right now is behaving morally equivalently to the Serbian military shooting at UN peacekeepers in the 90’s.

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NoHetro@reddit

When you say that the UN is stepping in front of Hezbollah and is in Israel’s way of delivering harm to Hezbollah, you are literally using the dictionary definition of protecting, “to keep safe from harm or injury”. What a pedantic argument you insist on having.

Protecting a terrorist militia that has been attacking Israel for the last 11 months+?

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JustACharacterr@reddit

Protecting a terrorist militia

The UN staying in their legally mandated bases is not protecting Hezbollah, but thank you for just finally admitting that’s what you believe after trying to play coy about it and pretending you didn’t mean that.

that’s why they refuse to listen to Israel and move out of their way

Why exactly do you think Israel has the unilateral right to threaten military violence against UN forces when it can do what I just described and send diplomatic personnel to investigate the site? Shooting tank shells at guard watchtowers does not solve anything, the fact you’re defending it to this length is absurd.

they’ve been getting attacked from that country for the past 11 months

It might help your reading comprehension if you continue my sentence from past where you decided to stop quoting, i.e this part:

and threaten UN forces with military violence if they don’t abandon their legally mandated position.

because if you complete the sentence it actually means something totally different than the snippet you quoted.

Note how I haven’t said anywhere here in this conversation that Israel doesn’t have a right to retaliate against Hezbollah. I haven’t even said “Israel doesn’t have a right to enter Lebanon to retaliate against Hezbollah.” My position is incredibly simple: Israel does not have the right to threaten UN forces in their legally mandated positions with violence unless they comply with Israeli military directives. If you can’t grasp that statement, you have a problem understanding the simple concept that Israel does not have the right of God to tell people to do what they want or suffer the consequences.

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fajadada@reddit

So the UN argument is just eyewash hiding a kill the Jew sentiments and can be only used against Israel? Ok I get it now

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Antique_Cricket_4087@reddit

kill the Jew sentiments

This is what people say who have been raised on a persecution complex and then lead by clowns like Netanyahu, who take advantage of said complex.

But hey, maybe we should just mischaracterize everything Israel does and claim it's all done because they want to kill the muslims.

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Squidmaster129@reddit

But hey, maybe we should just mischaracterize everything Israel does and claim it’s all done because they want to kill the muslims.

You literally already do this lmao

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Antique_Cricket_4087@reddit

No, we don't. We don't pretend that Israel just wants to murder muslims like it's some kind of instinctive characteristic.

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themightycatp00@reddit

What are we supposed to belive when UNRWA employees are kidnapping Israeli civilians with the UN general secretary's full backing? and when UNFIL didn't do anything watched hezbollah launch unguided rockets at civilian cities for 12 months?

At some point you have to call a boy by his name.

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Antique_Cricket_4087@reddit

Buddy, Israel claimed UNRWA was systematically doing that, then when it came time to provide proof, Israel didn't. So what we end up with is what, a dozen UNRWA accused of doing it out of thousands of employees.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/22/israel-unrwa-staff-terrorist-links-yet-to-provide-evidence-colonna-report

It's funny how you buy the accusation as if it's gospel and then fail to follow up and see if any of it was true. You're doing it again here with the UNIFIL.

Also, if you begin to see every UN organization as an enemy, it's time to have a look in the mirror. If you start justifying attacking UN organizations, it's time to wonder if you've become a pariah state.

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themightycatp00@reddit

Buddy, Israel claimed UNRWA was systematically doing that, then when it came time to provide proof, Israel didn't. So what we end up with is what, a dozen UNRWA accused of doing it out of thousands of employees.

Exactly UN's own report found there were UNRWA employees who are also hamas members, if they were as neutral as they say there would be none, and top of that the general secretary of the UN is trying to get them immunity from punishment

It's funny how you buy the accusation as if it's gospel and then fail to follow up and see if any of it was true. You're doing it again here with the UNIFIL.

What isn't true? Are you denying that there were rockets fired at Israeli cities for the last year?

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Antique_Cricket_4087@reddit

And how many did the report conclude were involved in kidnapping people on Oct 7th.

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themightycatp00@reddit

Don't they have google where you're from?

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Leather-Ad-7799@reddit

Provide the source, or it doesn’t exist. You made the argument, now provide the source.

Again the accusations never had merit and everyone laughs at you when you say it again and then say “check Google “ 🤣

Google says there’s no evidence, now what?

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themightycatp00@reddit

Provide the source, or it doesn’t exist. You made the argument, now provide the source

Why would I go through the effort if your opinion is already made?

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Leather-Ad-7799@reddit

Classic Zionist L, make false claim, cry and hide behind “you’ve already made up your mind” when a source is requested.

Of a Zionist is talking, they’re likely lying

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axeteam@reddit

Classic Hasbara bro

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Novarupta99@reddit

But hey, maybe we should just mischaracterize everything Israel does and claim it's all done because they want to kill the muslims.

Huge mischaracterisation.

Israel likes killing Christian Palestinians too.

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Ropetrick6@reddit

Do you want to run that one again, this time in English?

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Ropetrick6@reddit

Do you want to run that one again, this time in English?

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JustACharacterr@reddit

the UN argument is just eyewash hiding kill the Jew sentiment

Jessewhatthefuckareyoutalkingabout.jpeg

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kinky-proton@reddit

Israel was ordered by the UN to leave chebaa farms but didn't, who's gonna bomb Israel?

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fajadada@reddit

I’m sure rocket attacks from those illegally placed munitions have reached just fine

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AidsNipple@reddit

The Viet Cong would've surrendered and done the Michael Jackson flowers in the gun barrel thing because they'd be so frightened to be called a name by a nation with no balls.

Of course after that the IDF would simply keep firing on them.

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shorkan2@reddit

I saw the same post when Hassan Nasrallah eliminated .
Sky news Arabia claimed that Israel fail . People comments : " Hassan Nasrallan alive everywhere"

All the media quote the "Hezbollah's media" and that that happens

just wait few hours.
Wafic Safa is probably dead too!

https://x.com/ShaykhSulaiman/status/1839731963835355590

https://x.com/DrLoupis/status/1839731622297342153

https://x.com/ShaykhSulaiman/status/1839734114674483329

https://x.com/AlArabiya_Brk/status/1839698103944827233 - deleted

Alarabiya deleted their tweet that claim they have sources that confirmed the elimination failed.

Another media laugh at the failed assassination attack
https://x.com/iraninarabic_ir/status/1839700887431700838

Hamas and Hezbollah always denies those things in the first hours and even weeks.

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godintraining@reddit

So what you mean is that even if you guys killed one target it was justifiable to kill 22 civilians in the process.

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shorkan2@reddit

These assassinations happen after they’ve started a war. In the last year, Israel has tried to make diplomatic efforts to stop the attacks from Hezbollah. France and the US have applied pressure on Lebanon, but sadly, nothing has come of it so IDF started the Northern Arrows operation on 23/09.

Since October 8, Hezbollah has launched more than 9,000 rockets, and they claim to have around 100,000 more. There are still 65,000 displaced Israelis from the north.

Hezbollah distributed rockets everywhere, including in civilian areas.

( look at 00:14 the rockets fires from the storage place : https://www.reddit.com/r/lebanon/comments/1fxrr3m/comment/lqom8zg/ )

What are the options?

I think if the IDF focuses only on targeting weapons depots and chasing down every rocket, it could take years, and more civilians will die.
It's difficult to reach a diplomatic agreement with an organization that vows to destroy you.

Just read about UN Resolution 1701—Hezbollah probably just laughed at it and kept strengthening itself in the south. I don't know the right answer; these asymmetrical wars have changed after October 7.

Israel kills more civilians every day than Hezbollah has in the last year.

Hezbollah didn't kill less civilians for the lack of trying.

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zakarondo@reddit

Okay and? That somehow justifies Israel acting as a terrorist state? Do you think I'm here rooting for Hezbollah? Maybe I'm just against war crimes enacted by a genocidal criminal in the place of PM?

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TehHeavy@reddit

If you are attacked and you kill the attacker in self defense, are you the criminal?

Its your responsibility to keep yourself alive.

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zakarondo@reddit

Israel is not under attack by women and children. Those deaths are murder by the act of Israel. These people fled their homes only to be bombed in refugee camps. Israel is intentionally murdering civilians. They have no way to protect themselves and nowhere to run to

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TehHeavy@reddit

Good thing women and children are a very small minority of the civilian casualties then.

Children though , most of their deaths is serving a terrorist organization.

Dont blame israel for fighting back against a group that deploys children as fighters.

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zakarondo@reddit

A little over half of the 42,000 killed are women and children. Not a small minority. UN also reporting 52% of those killed in Gaza, or 16,000, are women and children. These numbers don't include all of the unconfirmed deaths that are still buried under the rubble of their homes. There is no excusing that Israel has decided that genocide is the answer to their problems.

Women and children are not a minority of casualties, they're the majority

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TehHeavy@reddit

These statistics present incredibly misleading information.

Do we know the amount of militants counted as children?

These statistics are made misleading by mixing both women and children, while adding militants toward the children part of the statistics.

By your way of thinking, i can say only 10,000 women died and 30,000 armed terrorists.

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zakarondo@reddit

So we can't trust the UN? Is that why Israel is repeatedly attacking them too? Is every country in this planet truly trying to misrepresent the statistics? Do you truly believe that every man over the age of 18 is a terrorist soldier?

Are you sure the unarmed 12 year old shot and killed was a terrorist? How about the two year old? I didn't realize Hezbollah could teach infants to shoot.

Are you still sure you're on the right side of history?

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TehHeavy@reddit

No, we cannot trust the UN. its a fucking joke that only works to appease Iran.

Iran was literally in the womens rights group, until international pressure against the un removed them.

If you believe in standing side by side with murderers, which only believe in killing innocents, Then i am sorry, you are at the wrong side of history.

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zakarondo@reddit

Israel has murdered at least 41,000 people in the last year. Likely a lot more when the rubble can be cleared. Israel has demolished homes and communities. Destroyed any and all infrastructure it can find. Even today they killed 22 civilians in a reckless and fruitless attack in a highly populated residential area. An area that people are fleeing to in an attempt to escape the horrors committed by a terrorist state.

And now the only people we can trust on this information is Israel? Even AP is lying? Every organization outside of Israel is lying?

Israel has killed more innocents every single day than Hezbollah has in the last year. Israel is even willing to gun down its own citizens as collateral, yet they are not murderers?

These are the tactics you'd expect to see from ISIS.

But you can keep blindly following a PM who has only worked to corrupt the Israeli government and steal from its people. Of course Netanyahu would never lie.

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TehHeavy@reddit

Remember when everyone believed 500 innocents died with a 'hospital bombing', and it turned out that an empty parking lot was hit?

So again, you fail to answer the question. If it's so easy, then you and all the rest of the armchair Generals out here can provide a solidified solution as to what they SHOULD do. At this point, it's pretty obvious that all you will do, regardless of the action, is to complain about it.

What you are at best is an NPC with moral grandstanding talking points.

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zakarondo@reddit

Israel is the only country on this planet who needs to kill 20 civilians for every singular unnamed Hezbollah commander killed. If they need a strategy to reduce civilian casualties they can ask the US military how they do it constantly.

Uh it’s not a war crime actually. The fact that Israel was targeting a Hezbollah official makes it a legal act of war. Unless you’re disputing the article and disagree that the targeted Hezbollah official actually didn’t escape and was never there in the first place?

Even that wouldn’t be a war crime if Israel reasonably believed that the Hezbollah official was there.

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zakarondo@reddit

Israel has every capability of targeting a commander without causing mass destruction. They simply choose not to because they have no regard for civilian life.

And at this point I do question these attacks that are consistently killing only civilians and aid workers. But it's all justified because Israel thought an enemy combatant might be there? It seems more like an endless excuse to kill indiscriminately.

How do you feel about Russia launching missiles indiscriminately into Ukraine in an attempt to kill a single Ukrainian combatant? Should we level Moscow in an attempt to take out a couple commanders too? Why is Israel somehow above criticism and above accountability for their actions?

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HydrostaticTrans@reddit

The article is article pretty skimpy on details but you seem to have classified intelligence around this specific strike so I got some questions for you.

What exact ordinance was used? Which one should have been used? Was Israel aware of the targets location in the building? If so how is that possible? Did they have an inside man? Maybe new technology that can identify targets through concrete? How long did Israel surveil the building prior to the strike to identify potential civilian casualties as they move in and out of the building? Israel must’ve had an ID on the target who escaped, what is the time between identification and strike? How many potential civilians moved out or in within that time frame?

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zakarondo@reddit

Israel has already said that their target was not in either of these residential buildings. I don't need classified information when they'll tell you themselves that they attacked two residential buildings in an attempt to kill someone who was not even there.

So 22 dead and dozens wounded for absolutely nothing. And those wounded will have a hard time seeking medical assistance after Israel has destroyed hospitals and killed so many aid workers and paramedics.

But please, tell me why that's all okay because Israel thought someone might be in one of those two buildings.

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HydrostaticTrans@reddit

So why does the article say Hezbollah official escaped? If he was never there in the first place what did the Hezbollah official escape?

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zakarondo@reddit

You don't "escape" an airstrike. Unless you're saying that Israel is either incapable of correctly controlling their airstrike, which then means they should not be using them in highly populated areas or at all or you mean to tell me that Wafiq Safa is a super soldier that can outrun explosions. So which of those is it?

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HydrostaticTrans@reddit

Do you believe between target identification and an air strike that there is zero response time? Like the jets happened to just be flying over that exact building when they identified the Hezbollah official in that building?

Pretty much, yea. If you targeted a military objective.

You see in this article how a Hezbollah official escaped? That means a military objective was targeted. Which makes the strike legal.

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roydez@reddit (OP)

This makes absolutely no sense. How do you know that they were indeed targeting a Hezbollah official and not just saying they were to save face? What's the red line for basic evidence, proportionality and collateral damage? Can I just nuke all of Canada because I wanted to target a specific general?

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HydrostaticTrans@reddit

That’s what the article says. It says “Hezbollah official escaped”. You’re literally the one that posted it. Did you read your own post? Are you posting lies?

The Geneva convention is quite vague on proportionality. But we do know Israel has a threshold of 100 civilian casualties for a commander. So no you couldn’t nuke Canada to take out a general, you could kill 100 civilians to take out a general. And that’s using Israel’s rules which many - you included claim is genocide.

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roydez@reddit (OP)

The article says:

Security sources said the target was senior Hezbollah official Wafiq Safa, and that he had survived. A Hezbollah lawmaker visiting the site of the attack on Friday said no senior Hezbollah officials had been present at the time.

So Israel claims that they targetted him and Hezbollah says he wasn't there to begin with. I am wondering if you genuinely think you can just kill a bunch of people because you claim to target a militant whilst providing no proof.

But we do know Israel has a threshold of 100 civilian casualties for a commander.

Yeah, they don't really. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/31_October_2023_Jabalia_refugee_camp_airstrike https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer%27s_Building_airstrike

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HydrostaticTrans@reddit

So you dispute the article that you yourself posted.

No it literally just means not aiming at a target.

Stopped reading your bs again but this time on the first sentence.

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Lucidorex@reddit

Fine, if you’re so fixated on technicalities, let’s break it down:

By your logic, unless it’s sheer randomness, it’s not indiscriminate? How convenient. Here’s the reality: under international law, an attack is indiscriminate when it ignores the distinction between military targets and civilian areas, especially when civilian deaths are a predictable outcome.

Israel knows it’s striking civilian-dense areas, and they know civilians will die. So even if they claim it’s aimed at Hezbollah, the repeated, predictable harm violates proportionality and distinction.

If your excuse is to just “stop reading,” that shows you’re not interested in facing facts—and it reveals exactly where you stand.

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godintraining@reddit

You’re focusing entirely on Hezbollah’s actions, painting Israel as some passive victim just responding to attacks, but let’s not pretend Israel is innocent here.

You conveniently ignore what’s happening in Gaza, the bombings, the blockades, the years of brutal occupation. Hezbollah’s rockets didn’t come out of nowhere. It’s the result of decades of violence, repression, and Israel’s ongoing military aggression. You can’t talk about one without addressing the other.

Real people are dying. Innocent civilians, not just in Israel but in Gaza and in Lebanon are being bombed, displaced, and slaughtered. How many children buried in rubble are you willing to write off as collateral damage?

This isn’t just about asymmetrical warfare or political strategy; it’s about humanity. If you think the loss of civilian life is justifiable under any circumstances, whether it’s in Gaza, Beirut, or Tel Aviv, you’re missing the point. Civilians are being wiped out in the name of strategic advantage, and no matter how you spin it, that’s barbaric. If you can’t see that, you’re either willfully blind or just don’t care.

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shorkan2@reddit

If tomorrow Hamas were to forfeit leadership and release the hostages, it would all be over.

Want to talk about humanity? Let’s talk about peace and humanity.
Israel has absorbed 20,000 rocket attacks from Hamas. Israel knew that eliminating Hamas would cost too many lives on both sides. In 2005, Israel withdrew from Gaza in the hope of peace. What happened? Synagogues were burned, and Hamas took over in a coup, killing members of the PA (Palestinian Authority).

The belief was that we could live alongside Hamas. Before October 7, we were even discussing building a joint industrial zone near the Gaza border. Billions of dollars were poured in to improve the lives of people in Gaza.
Look at videos from before October 7: there were car shows, five-star hotels, and fancy restaurants. The idea of a total blockade is a lie! There were only minimal restrictions on products that could be used to build rockets.

NoHetro@reddit

"you guys didnt kill the target and even if you did fuck you"

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NetworkLlama@reddit

It can be. Proportionality is a misunderstood factor in the laws of combat. Yes, you can go in knowing you will kill civilians in at least some cases, even a lot of civilians, but there's a balancing act.

For example, if you see a couple of random soldiers sitting in a restaurant eating lunch, it's very hard to make a case that you can hit that restaurant with a 500-pound bomb. The military advantage gained from taking out two soldiers that are easily replaced by two other soldiers doesn't justify the strike.

However, if you have reasonable belief that a senior commander is in a civilian building and you have no other chances to hit that person, or your other chances could result in even worse casualties, it could be justifiable because of the effects it can have on the chain of command and the military advantage that follows.

Wafic Safa was reportedly the primary target. Descriptions of him vary, with some labeling him "head of security" or "spymaster," with the closest thing to an official label that I can find being in charge of Hezbollah's "Liaison and Coordination Unit" that works with Lebanese security forces. What seems to be clear is that he is/was very much a high-ranking member of Hezbollah, and he has been many years.

A rough comparison in the US might be the Secretary of Homeland Security, or perhaps the head of the CIA or the Director of National Intelligence. If the US were at war with another country, and that country somehow managed to target any of those people even in a civilian area, they would likely be legally justified in doing so even if a few dozen civilians were killed. The US would be understandably angry about it, but the other side could have a valid claim that it fell under the proportionality rules.

I don't have all the details for this strike. No one here does. We don't know how reliable Israel's information was, how many other opportunities they might have had, or if there was some other way to reduce civilian casualties. All of that factors into whether a strike that involves civilian casualties is legal under the laws of war.

(This comment isn't getting into Israel's compliance history, just looking at the technicalities for this one strike.)

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UnlikelyAssassin@reddit

Is there any evidence to substantiate 22 civilians? How have you determined that every single one was a civilian?

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roydez@reddit (OP)

If they even killed him.

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Generic_Username_Pls@reddit

I love the Zionist thought process, killing a bunch of people is ok if it serves a purpose

Do you think believe that terrorists should have complete and utter immunity to kill as many civilians as they want….

This sentence, where you justify the killing of civilians to reach a military target, which is basically what happened on Oct 7

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UnlikelyAssassin@reddit

Except that’s not what happened. Hamas was not adhering to rules of engagement like principle of distinction and principle of proportionality. It wasn’t just that Hamas indiscriminately attacked Israel. Hamas engaged in a targeted massacre of civilians. They saw a music festival of people dancing and decided to massacre them. There was no attempt to discriminate towards military targets there.

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Generic_Username_Pls@reddit

No way you’re telling me that Israel adheres to these things. The state that operates a prison in the desert where the inmates are raped. Please get a grip

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UnlikelyAssassin@reddit

It’s not like people in this thread are even arguing that Israel targeted civilians like Hamas did on October 7th, or that they indiscriminately attack Lebanon like Hezbollah did against Israel. They’re arguing that Israel is targeting combatants but speculating that they’re not doing so effectively enough. So it seems like we’re all agreeing that Israel is targeting combatants.

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Generic_Username_Pls@reddit

Then you’re misunderstanding because Israel is not trying to only target combatants. They killed two Lebanese army soldiers. They blew up three buildings without killing their target. They attacked UNIFIL soldiers twice now. Israel has always targeted civilians, and to a much worse extent than Hamas has or does.

They bombed a school two days ago, have flattened every hospital in Gaza, have targeted refugee camps and deliberately murdered women, children, and UN/foreign aid organizations.

You’re grasping at straws, if you’re so committed to defending people who are using the atrocities their ancestors lived through as inspiration, at least try to do it in a way that isn’t blatantly in opposition of the facts

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UnlikelyAssassin@reddit

Well if you just look at the Hamas numbers for the number of people killed in Gaza and look at the combatant casualty numbers either from Israeli intelligence, US intelligence or even the Hamas numbers for this as well–even if you use the Hamas numbers for both of these things, it still indicates that Israel is adhering to the principle of distinction, with Hamas militants being very disproportionally likely to be killed compared to civilians even when Hamas embeds itself among civilians fighting in civilian clothing (war crime) where it is extremely difficult to minimise civilian casualties.

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Generic_Username_Pls@reddit

Good that you pointed out a war crime they commit.

Here’s a list of all of Israel’s war crimes from only the last year

I do like that you only responded to the points that you feel you’re correct on though. Proportionality and the desert rape prison you just ignored, so that’s very cool.

Your justification is still baseless. Israel codifies combatant casualties as any Palestinian male over a certain age. Take the actual numbers from the PA (which the Israeli government go to for all census information by the way) and you’ll see the ratio of civilian to combatant is astronomically higher

Not to mention that many of the civilians on Oct 7 had all served/were serving in the IOF. Of the 1200 or so killed I believe about half of them could be described as combatants, making them fair game by your own twisted standards

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UnlikelyAssassin@reddit

Definitely an unbiased source. Also that’s not just one war crime. Every Hamas member who fights in civilian clothing is objectively a war crime. Every single missile Hamas fires into Israel is objectively a war crime as they’re all unguided and therefore indiscriminate.

I’m not talking about the ratio of civilians to combatants. The ratio of civilians to combatants killed is inferior for measuring adherence to the principle of distinction compared to relative risk. I’m talking about the relative risk of combatants vs civilians and even using Hamas’ numbers they indicate Israel is adhering to the principle of distinction.

Also my standard is relative risk. October 7th has an inferior relative risk compared to Israel’s operation in Gaza in spite of the fact that it was way easier for Hamas to minimise civilian casualties on October 7th.

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Generic_Username_Pls@reddit

If you’d check the link you’d see each war crime is backed up with evidence, but I understand that’s too difficult for a Zionist. Evidence tends to get in the way of the grand plan.

Lol so then every civilian in Palestine killed is a war crime. You’re still winning by a huge margin in war crimes, don’t worry no one can take that from you.

You’re genuinely impossible to talk to. It’s much easier for Israel to minimize civilian casualties - all they have to do is stop murdering civilians. The actions of Hamas on Oct 7 are in direct response to decades of slaughter and oppression, and this is the crux of the issue - Zionist sympathizers now warp the conversation as if the whole conflict began a year ago, when in reality Israel has been doing this for literal decades. Hamas responds in a similar manner once and now we’re here discussing ethics and bullshit like “relative risk”, as if that’s not just a way to handwave atrocities. You could literally sit here and make the exact same arguments and wind up defending the Nazis if you wanted to, if that’s any indication of how flawed your argument is

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Oh hell yes another idiot lie of yours I get to debunk

Part of the updated 2017 charter of Hamas literally mentions it has no problems with the Jews and only with Zionists. Even the original one from 1988 literally states that all Abrahamic religions (Christians, Jews, and Muslims) can coexist peacefully

You’ve made it apparently you’re not here to argue in good faith. You keep pulling up random garbage with zero evidence or even a modicum of truth behind it because you’re desperate to support an ideology that resembles 1:1 the dogma of an organization you would consider terrorists

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SephLuis@reddit

Reading the actual news.

22 killed in Beirut, but no information if they were civilians or not and no information about the place that was hit.

Israel was targeting another leader, but Hamas lawmaker explains that no senior Hamas officer was in the place. Still can't rule the possibility he was there and avoided the attack, misinformation or that he actually got killed.

That's it pretty much. The leaps and jumps in this thread were a terrible read.

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oreonev@reddit

It was a civilian building hit, 2 of em in separate areas when they claimed only 1 target in fact (sus), so yes, they were all civilians, and news are the guy they targeted lived, not like it matters if he did or not, he wasnt really of any importance military-wise so this was just another bloodthirsty attack on civiliabs

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UnlikelyAssassin@reddit

That doesn’t follow. Something being a civilian building doesn’t mean Hezbollah wasn’t hit as Hezbollah hides in civilian buildings. Also the news’ source of the guy living is Hezbollah themselves. We don’t know if Hezbollah is telling the truth. We also don’t know how many Hezbollah terrorists were around the leader they were targeting that ended up dying.

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oreonev@reddit

1st off, he's not an "important leader", 99% of the time theyre hitting them HOME when theyre not actually doin anythin aka they wont even have guards

2nd off, killing 1 guy does not justify FLATTENING, i repeat, FLATTENING an entire civilian building

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roydez@reddit (OP)

Apparently you didn't read well enough. Hamas lawmaker? This is Lebanon not Gaza. Anyway, allegedly a singular Hezbollah senior was targeted. According to Lebanon's PM, who is not Hezbollah but is from another faction they killed 22 people and injured over 100. They also injured two UN personnel. And a day earlier they destroyed a Church while killing healthcare personnel.

Another Christian source showing damage.

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SephLuis@reddit

I got the names wrong, but the information is there

A Hezbollah lawmaker visiting the site of the attack on Friday said no senior Hezbollah officials had been present at the time.

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