How can I help a senior engineer overcome imposter syndrome?
Posted by ununonium119@reddit | ExperiencedDevs | View on Reddit | 42 comments
Hi y’all. I’m a mid-level on a team of three engineers. The most senior engineer is nearing retirement age, so he has a wealth of knowledge, but he feels (somewhat justifiably) behind the times on newer tech. He architected and wrote the bulk of our code. The third engineer and I are much younger and came from companies with modern toolchains, whereas the senior spent the past few decades at an old fashioned company where he architected most of their systems. The third engineer and I created a few major subsystems and took care of testing/tooling.
The senior and I are friends outside of work, and it looks to me like he is suffering from major imposter syndrome and mild depression related to his sense of self worth at our current company. I have tried explaining to him that he architected our system and how he has anticipated many major project pitfalls with proactive solutions, but none of it has stuck. I have also tried to steer him away from comparing himself to us and I always make time to listen when he needs to talk about how he feels. Finally, I dedicate significant time (sometimes an hour, sometimes an entire day) to sitting down and teaching him modern tools when he asks for help learning.
Could I have advice on how to help him come to terms with his role on the team? There are many posts on this sub by individuals suffering from imposter syndrome, but I can’t find advice from the perspective of how to help someone else, in particular a senior and mentor.
lieutdan13@reddit
It’s great to see how supportive you are of your senior colleague! It sounds like you’re doing a lot of the right things by listening and providing help. One additional approach might be to encourage him to share his knowledge and experience with the team. This could help him see his value from a different perspective, reminding him that his insights are invaluable, even if they’re not focused on the latest technologies.
Also, if he’s open to it, discussing strategies for overcoming imposter syndrome might be beneficial. I’ve written an article on this topic that offers some tips and insights: Coding with Confidence: Defeating Imposter Syndrome.
It’s all about creating a culture of collaboration and support. Best of luck, and I’m optimistic that with your help, he’ll find his footing!
FuglySlut@reddit
We forget, but building software is very cognitively challenging. I'm around 40 and regularly think how much easier a task would have been for me five years ago. I can't imagine how bad this is going to be at 60. Basically what I'm saying is, it's not imposter syndrome. Dudes brain is at like 70% speed of yours and, worse, they know it because they remember when their brain was 30% faster. This is very depressing. It's sweet you're trying to help, but maybe do less.
ultraDross@reddit
Cognitive decline is somewhere in the 60s. I've found, getting older comes with more responsibilities (mortgage, relationship/marriage, kids, taking cra of paging parents etc.) which leads to less mental energy for work tasks.
BloodSpawnDevil@reddit
I don't think cognitive decline is that impactful until mid 60s and since we use are brains that part is less likely to decline at the same rate. I wouldn't worry about decline.
Motivation is a much bigger impact. Software engineers seem to have gone from highly respected closed door office workers to cube farm drones in 20 years despite everything saying that offices are better.
They don't care about our health, productivity, value, sanity, hours, or anything. That's very depressing. Engineers who've been around for 25 years or more likely experienced much better treatment in the past.
nderflow@reddit
Eh? If his brain is now at 70% speed, it used to be 43% faster, not 30%.
JustAsItSounds@reddit
Give him a break, he's nearly 40 ferchrissakes!
FuglySlut@reddit
Thank you I had to take a nap after doing 100-70
Scarface74@reddit
That’s not your monkey and nor your circus.
At 50 years old, I have zero sympathy for someone who chose to stay an active developer and didn’t think it was important to keep up with modern tech trends.
I started programming in assembly on an Apple //e in the 80s graduated from college in the mid 90s and learned “cloud” in 2018 and I will put ny buzzword compliance against anyone. In fact, I just led an LLM/chatbot, call center project last month,
Iagospeare@reddit
I swear you work at my company. If the older guy you're talking about is named Dave and has eyes that point in two different directions....
ununonium119@reddit (OP)
Oddly specific, but no.
Aggressive_Ad_5454@reddit
I’ve been the near-retirement dev. And now I’m the retired dev.
There is definitely some sadness and mourning that comes from seeing the trade I love roaring on without me. It’s important to accept that sadness. But not let it overwhelm me.
At the same time, it’s important to celebrate the fact that real wisdom comes with years of experience. For example: I may get disgusted trying to rig a toolchain for building some client-side software load, but I have a very clear picture in my mind of how the overall system needs to work, and I can troubleshoot system problems by glancing at the devtools network tab. ( And, you young’uns need to fix these ridiculous JavaScript toolchain messes. Really. )
For those of us whose careers are winding down, our number one job is working ourselves out of our jobs by making sure our stuff is clear and maintainable. My ambition for the last decade of my career has been to create code that my successors can look at and think, “ I see how that works. “ . I suppose the Dalai Lama might call this work “death practice”. And the current crop of agile managers might call it “paying off the technical debt.”
You can’t fix your old colleague’s sadness and mourning. But you can remind him that he holds a wealth of wisdom that you need.
BloodSpawnDevil@reddit
Interesting, I could quit working tomorrow forever if I didn't need money based on all the "value" I've been "allowed" to produce after 12 years of micromanagers at 3 different employers. I'm just a cubical whore. People where I work get yelled at for doing things they're not specifically told to do. It's actually perceived better to do nothing I've found.
ununonium119@reddit (OP)
Luckily for me, my team is pretty unified and willing to push back against management when we need to do things differently. I’ve set a lot of precedents for wandering around the office to find small side projects and teach people, so people are used to setting things that look off task.
aptacode@reddit
From your description it sounds like you're taking the senior role in your relationship, possibly he knows that and it's making him feel insecure.
ununonium119@reddit (OP)
That’s a very good point about the role reversal. It was a big transition for him coming from his previous company.
Maybe I can try pointing out how he had decades to master his previous tech stack, so anything short of mastery will feel like poor performance?. I also know he feels like he fell behind the industry in general, so I will try to focus on the opportunity to catch up rather than dwelling on the years when the gap grew.
pm_me_github_repos@reddit
On this point, maybe find some things you want to learn from the senior engineer and let them mentor you too for your benefit and their feeling of self worth. Tech stacks may change rapidly but their design, problem solving and ability to tie work to business value may still be relevant.
solstheman1992@reddit
To that point, maybe even helping him identify shortcomings of the modern tech stack and planning around them is also a good idea. Old er tech may get deprecated but the skills needed to build it don’t expire so quickly. He can still problem solve once he ramps up.
Perhaps he should even dedicate time in ramp up
ununonium119@reddit (OP)
I like this one. Getting feedback and perspective could have a lot of value down the line.
aptacode@reddit
It sounds like you're a good friend, but consider the thought that your efforts to try and lead your senior may not be helping his feelings of inadequacy
sleepyguy007@reddit
Have him watch the star trek the next generation episode with scotty and the dyson sphere.
wwww4all@reddit
You can only help people that help themselves.
leeliop@reddit
Just pat him on the back and whisper "time for the COBOL mines"
Brought2UByAdderall@reddit
I mean, I'm only going on 50 but I know I would laugh.
ununonium119@reddit (OP)
LGTM ship it
Previous-Piglet4353@reddit
Grab yourself by your willpower and run with it. Look back at what you accomplished. An impostor would fake it and take credit. Is that you? No? When you look back, did you do the work, did you delegate, did you plan? Were you committed to the hilt? If yes, you are not an impostor.
nderflow@reddit
One of the key ingredients of Imposter Syndrome is comparing your internal, awkward stumbling process for completing a task with the smooth outward appearance of someone else's finished project.
Inside_Dimension5308@reddit
I mean why do you need 1hr everyday. Just give him the list of technologies. He should have the skill to atleast figure out what new technologies are being used in the current architecture. This looks like spoonfeeding which he might start enjoying. Make him self reliant instead of dependent.
I dont care who is senior in position in this setup. If you want to help him, do it the right wau without compromising your work.
ununonium119@reddit (OP)
To clarify, I don’t help with learning every single day. When there is appropriate downtime, I make myself available to help with learning. I’ve shared some resources and he has gotten into them on his own time, so I think we’re heading in the right direction.
Inside_Dimension5308@reddit
Go ahead if it is part of responsibility. Not clear from the post.
SpudroSpaerde@reddit
Is this really imposter syndrome? Is he too old to learn new things or what is the issue here? Calling this imposter syndrome is just protecting him from the reality that there is something wrong that he needs to address.
ununonium119@reddit (OP)
I think it is imposter syndrome because he works the longest hours on the team but frequently makes comments about not pulling his weight even though he has done the majority of the work.
The project has been behind schedule since before he joined, so he hasn’t had time to slow down and learn new tools. Finally, he took the brunt of the force from management being angry about the timeline even though the entire team considers the timeline fair for the amount of work that needed to be done. None of this is the senior’s fault, which is why I consider it imposter syndrome.
WhatIsTheScope@reddit
I am not in my 60’s but I recently switched teams and a new modern tech stack after being in mainframe for 5 years. So I think I can relate a little bit with this guy. Here’s what NOT to do:
These were the most annoying things a mentor did to me when I first started in my tech stack. They were also a gossip queen, and threw people under the bus. Needless to say I ended that relationship pretty quick.
khunibatak@reddit
You probably cannot tell him this, but you could suggest that he "uses" this job to get up to speed with new stacks, and in his resume, he can leverage his existing architecture experience while assuring recruiters that he knows the modern stuff.
schmidtssss@reddit
You sound fucking insufferable
ivoryavoidance@reddit
I had once heard a comment which has stuck with me. And given that tech is ever evolving,(not that it changes the fundamentals of how computers operate, most of these concepts around locking and distributed systems has been there in OS, things like consensus number and all).
The quote was, one can only outwork their confidence issues. There is no other way. Even if you see Linus' motivation around building git , in one of his interviews, he said, it was to prove to himself he was worth it, and he could produce things of value.
Therapist and all seems fine, but you might try empowering him, if the person feels like he is lacking some knowledge and the younger guys have it, helping him catchup and showing him, fundamentally it's not much different, and then if he do something which he values in his mind, could objectively prove to him, that he still gat it.
MartinBaun@reddit
Some things you can't solve yourself, he may have to see a professional because something the issues are much more deeply rooted than they seem. Especially imposter syndrome.
joyancefa@reddit
Best cure for imposter syndrome I found: helping someone else.
Could you ask him to help you with some stuff for example?
InfiniteMonorail@reddit
If he hasn't figured out his career path and emotions by the age of 65 then nothing you do will help him.
ifiwasyourboifriend@reddit
You cannot manage another person’s emotions for them. The best way he can fix this situation as it pertains to his self-esteem is to learn new things and to stay current. Send him resources and tutorials but do not subject yourself to any kind of emotional labor, he’s allowed to vent but anything beyond that is going to cause a dynamic that will inevitably affect your relationship at work. You may be “friends” outside of work and I get that you’re throng to be a good person, but I’ve seen this situation play out in different ways before and they’ve all concluded in a negative way.
Be polite, give suggestions or share resources when you can and keep it professional.
I know it may not be what you want to hear but when you’ve been around the block a few times, you’ll come to understand what I’m saying one day.
Again just want to emphasize this: be polite and I think you’ve been a good friend by listening to him vent about this but the rest is on him.
Don’t entertain the venting too much otherwise you’ll find out the impact it’ll have on your professional working relationship in a not so good way.
Keep it professional.
ununonium119@reddit (OP)
Thank you for the cynical perspective. I don’t mean that in a bad way since it’s helpful for rounding out the advice and making me pull back to check on myself instead of getting tunnel vision on my coworker.
I’ve had insecure friends in the past, so I’ll try to think back to those situations and maintain proper boundaries.
ifiwasyourboifriend@reddit
Again, it’s fine to be nice and polite and get a beer sometimes. But once the venting exceeds the good times, it’s time to pause and reflect or maybe distance yourself otherwise he’s just going to vent during working hours when you could be focusing on your work. He’s a big boy, he can do it. This isn’t his first rodeo.
OriginalObscurity@reddit
Tbh if you’re close enough with him outside of work ask him if he’s considered talking to a therapist. They’re much better equipped to act as an outsider / third party.