Season 5 and the Fridge Horror of the Time Jump
Posted by 10Panoptica@reddit | xena | View on Reddit | 16 comments
First up, I'm usually pretty defensive of season 5. I think it's gets a worse wrap than it deserves. I understand why the time jump was chosen to resolve the Eve storyline, and I actually really liked Eve/Livia as a character. I'm not trying to be ruthless here.
But when you sit and think about this storyline and it's ramifications... the horror just is endless.
Take Cyrene in Amphipolis under siege, clutching her grandchild, defying her goddess! Talking about the heartbreak of the son & grandchild she already lost.
And a few weeks later, she's going to hear that Xena and her baby died in a fire, and she's just never going to see them again. She's going to watch Amphipolis decline and then she's going to die off screen in the timejump thinking that that her daughter and grandchild died a horrible death years before her.
That's a fucking depressing end for a beloved character.
And they're all like that. XWP was full of great recurring characters and little references to people she's saved acting as friends and allies. And, except for Joxer & Lila who's appearances are depressing for other reasons, they all just disappear. And when you think about them... Autolycus swiping a gem, Minya reading lines with her girl, Diana calling a healer because her chair was cold... just picture them getting this terrible news that their friends are dead and died horrible deaths.
And maybe never learning otherwise.
It's just really bleak.
And the terrible icing on it all... Callisto's purified soul got a second chance and still wound up becoming a fucking mass murdering warrior again. It's so depressing.
IseQween@reddit
You put your finger on my biggest problem with the time jump -- losing so many of the "family" of characters we grew to love. I doubt the new creative consultants brought in around that time felt the same ties to Cyrene, Minya, Autolycus, etc. as long-time Xenastaff. Sure, they created ones like Livia/Eve, but I just didn't connect with them as more than convenient ways to manufacture a sense of the continuity that was missing. I would've preferred X&G leaving baby Eve with Cyrene or the Amazons while they went on some missions. Most of the 5th & 6th season eps didn't even deal with or need the grown Eve. The main challenge I could see is whether the 40,000 souls in the finale would justify Xena essentially abandoning yet another child.
Xyber-Faust@reddit
Eve had Big Sky Daddy now. (^(she was God's bitch))
It's very unfortunate. But we all have those family members that just won't let their faith in "Him" go.
IseQween@reddit
Even if somehow Xena learned baby Eve's special role, I'm not sure she'd have trusted Big Sky Daddy with Eve's upbringing and life.
Xyber-Faust@reddit
I wish Xena and Gabrielle went to the future into the Cleopatra 2525 world and killed God with science and knowledge.
Xyber-Faust@reddit
If you didn't like the fate of those characters, blame Season 6.
Season 5 merely did a time-jump, but it left pretty much everyone's fate up to the imagination (except for Joxer).
And, this being the ultimate fantasy series, they could have just time-jumped right back and did a Bill & Ted, Xena and Gabrielle seeing their other selves, changing the timeline, maybe saving the Greek Gods from God (aka Dahak).
Possibilities in this series are endless.
10Panoptica@reddit (OP)
Nah, the core problem is inherent to the time jump. Even if Cyrene had been successfully running a bustling tavern instead of haunting an abandoned one as a tortured ghost, she still would have spent the last 25 years thinking Xena, Gabrielle, and Eve died in a wagon fire.That part of every character's fate isn't avoidable.
And when I say time jump, I'm talking about the actual storyline they did in the show. Yeah, they could have found other ways to age Eve up, or jumped back, but so what? "They could have immediately undone it" isn't a defense.
hermit198388@reddit
I think I agree with you. It is what it is, but I like the idea of growing Eve up faster, getting some more family-oriented episodes of her running around as a little kid with the Amazons, visits to and sending her off to stay with Cyrene from time to time so we can get more serious child-free episodes. As a teenager X&G could have been training her to defend herself, and she could have been a bit like Gabrielle in Season 1. Eventually maybe she'd go her own way, and we'd get her for occasional episodes just like Joxer, Autolycus, etc. Hmm, now I kind of want this as Season 6, and Season 7 could have covered some of the same ground of the actual Season 6 with some changes, lol. Alter the ending and have X&G retire in their old age (Season 8, 9?). If only!
Xyber-Faust@reddit
How is any of this a problem?
Icy-Sir-8414@reddit
I agree with all of you but personally I wish Cyrene would of died of old age instead
10Panoptica@reddit (OP)
Frankly, I don't think that would help. She'd still have spent the last decades of her life thinking they'd died in a fire, and for me, that's the bigger horror.
Icy-Sir-8414@reddit
But that's better than being accused of witchcraft and being burned at the stake isn't it and her spirit spending the last twenty five years haunting her own home and home town
Xyber-Faust@reddit
Nah.
The most depressing thing is that they didn't cast Hudson as Livia/Eve.
But that's life. It ends. Usually horribly.
I like that this series didn't sugar-coat things to cater to the ignorant.
cestlavie_69@reddit
Well said. There had to be a better way to solve the baby problem. I think they should have just worked around the pregnancy with body doubles and camera angles. I think it changed the feeling of the whole show.
Peacegirl1337@reddit
They did Cyrene dirty! She should have died of old age or defending her tavern
Takataapui_Kiwi@reddit
Cyrenes death is the wackiest shit. I always thought she deserved a death at Athena or even Ares hands to really martyr her up. Loved that legend. Whoever Xena Daddy was, he had not genetics in him, she was 100% Cyrenes child.
Meushell@reddit
Seriously. I’m doing a rewatch, and I might just skip that one. Yuck.