How different would your life be if you were rich rather than middle class?

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Scarred_fish@reddit

Class has nothing to do with wealth. This isn't America.

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Shot-Performance-494@reddit (OP)

Okay but you know what I mean, a 50-100k salary let’s say

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Scarred_fish@reddit

That's got nothing to do with what class you are.

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Shot-Performance-494@reddit (OP)

Stop being so pedantic

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Scarred_fish@reddit

There is nothing pedantic about it. Class is hereditary in the UK. It has absolutely nothing to do with your salary, your profession, where you live etc. That is the American version of class.

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Defining upper class exclusively based on hereditary title is incredibly narrow and mostly not useful. It's true that a minor nobility with not much money left in his generation is still upper class but so is a Goldman Sachs director on £300k and a house in Berkshire who's social circle is posh people and similar climbers

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Scarred_fish@reddit

In that case, their kids would be Upper Midde or Upper class. Basing it on someone's wealth instead of family just makes a mockery of the whole idea.

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Alarmed_Crazy_6620@reddit

No it doesn't, it acknowledges the fluidity of class depending on the environment we are in. Your current statement is "class is totally inherited but children can level up if you do well" which is funnily contradictory too

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Scarred_fish@reddit

Not at all. Class in the UK follows a very defined structure. I think you misunderstood. If someone middle or upper middle class regularly socialises with the upper class, it is possible their children may marry into the upper class as a result. There is no other route between classes. It's that simple.

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Alarmed_Crazy_6620@reddit

You keep repeating these dogmatic statements without countering any of the million examples where this is just doesn't work. Is Jim Ratcliffe meaningfully working class these days?

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Scarred_fish@reddit

I have no idea. Depends on his parents and marital status. Take a couple of good examples, one real, one fictional. Would you consider Alan Sugar or Del Boy Upper Class? Of course not, it's nonsense. However, as children of a peer, Alan Sugars kids are upper class. I just googled Jim Ratcliffe, and although he has some cash, he is not a peer nor is descended from one, so therefor his kids are not upper class. Why is this so hard to understand for some? It's a well established, sensible, system, that has been in place for centuries.

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Alarmed_Crazy_6620@reddit

I think billionaire and major political donor Jim Ratcliffe is no longer working class despite being brought up in an estate

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Scarred_fish@reddit

In that case you have no understanding of class, Or you are American.

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Alarmed_Crazy_6620@reddit

Your only definition of class so far is its unchangeability and it being based solely on parental class. However, we than discover that kids can change it if you did well and, ideally, (?) got a peerage. The current PM of this country is a firmly upper middle class person – incredibly high-flying job, income, mannerisms and language, friendship group, hobbies. He grew up in a working class family. It's laughable to say that his current status is "working class" although he does have valid working class roots which he seems to be proud of. Stop watching so much Downton Abbey

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Scarred_fish@reddit

It's not my definition, it's a fact. Kids, like anyone, can change by marriage, it's got nothing to do with peerage or the like. That's just how class works. The PM is Upper-Middle by marriage. How on earth could he ever be defined as anything else?? You're watching too much american TV.

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Alarmed_Crazy_6620@reddit

Right, so now that marriage also works. Good to see Keir was a star barrister and Queen's Counsel as a working class lad before marriage

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xp3ayk@reddit

I don't think they mean hereditary *titles*. I think they mean that the biggest predictor of what class you are in is what class your parents were in

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Alarmed_Crazy_6620@reddit

I think it's possible for this to be a very solid predictor (because the social mobility is low and class is also about the social capital), yet it's clearly fluid to some extent. Working class kids taking up good grad jobs do clearly become middle class, high earnings and a bit of willingness to blend in does comfortable get you into the upper echelons

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Alarmed_Crazy_6620@reddit

I think this is as much as an oversimplification as "class doesn't money, only money"

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Scarred_fish@reddit

Class in the UK couldn't be more simple. It is entirely related to your family situation and has no connection to wealth or the lack thereof.

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Thestolenone@reddit

Yes, I've always been poor (mainly due to undiagnosed autism and its associated problems) and I can't relate to working class people at all. Growing up, I was brought up vegetarian, we had a music room full of instruments, lots of books and my parents were happy for me to go to art college.

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rice_fish_and_eggs@reddit

For middle and working it's quite highly correlated to profession.

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Scarred_fish@reddit

In America, yes. But in the UK, what job you do, where you live, and whether or not you have money are all totally irrelevant to your class.

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rice_fish_and_eggs@reddit

I strongly disagree but out of interest how do you define the difference between middle class and working class?

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xp3ayk@reddit

A tradesman who went to state school, left school at 16 and apprenticed his way up to earning 80k a year is likely working class. A doctor who went to private school, then university who is earning 40k is likely middle class. These are crude examples with lots of exceptions to the rule but are used to illustrate how class=/=money

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Physical-Bank2176@reddit

Not sure

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Money_Spider420@reddit

Probably have the heating on a couple extra mins a day in the winter (should last like 2 winters).

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Shot-Performance-494@reddit (OP)

My definition of middle class is all bills paid for, so this wouldn’t be relevant to the question

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terryjuicelawson@reddit

This isn't the actualy definition of class though, a lot of working class jobs can earn serious cash.

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Shot-Performance-494@reddit (OP)

I just said “my definition”

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terryjuicelawson@reddit

If you want to define things wrong, then go ahead I guess.

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Fluffy_Juggernaut_@reddit

That's not what it means though. "Middle class" is about profession, education and social status. The trades now often earn significantly more than many white collar professions. I would be much richer if I'd learned a trade instead of going to university but I'm definitely middle class

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Shot-Performance-494@reddit (OP)

Boring

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Money_Spider420@reddit

Oh damn /s

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Fluffy_Juggernaut_@reddit

Very different. I have a solidly middle class job and it barely covers the bills. In real terms my wages are 10% less than they were five years ago and no real prospect of that getting better any time soon. There are currently zero problems in my life that wouldn't be solved by being rich. >Once your bills are paid for, would your day to day life really be that different ? Sounds like a serious lack of imagination

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cgknight1@reddit

Ops seems to think 50K-100k means rich which is why the conversation is so confusing.

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Lemon-Flower-744@reddit

Literally thought the same - Lack of imagination! People say 'Money can't buy you happiness' and I'm like hmm...it would help me a lot and enjoy life more 🤷🏼‍♀️

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xp3ayk@reddit

>People say 'Money can't buy you happiness' People are full of shit

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terryjuicelawson@reddit

Money can't *always* buy you happiness is the key to that expression. If you are sad because someone has died for example, it can't bring them back. Remember also even if we are dirt poor in the UK, we probably still have a hell of a lot more than someone dirt poor in the third world. They would say the same - how can you not be happy, you have lots of money!

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Lemon-Flower-744@reddit

It's normally the people *with* money that says 'money can't buy you happiness.'

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xp3ayk@reddit

You really wouldn't like any of my chocolate cake, it's not that tasty. No point in me sharing it with you

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cgknight1@reddit

>You’d still probably wake up at the same time, watch the same tv shows go to the same coffee shops/gyms, So if you are super-rich this isn't true if you don't want it to be. So you might have your gym at home *or* go to an exclusive private gym with a membership of £10,000 or more to keep people out. As for going for coffee, you will not head to Starbucks; you will head to your private members' club. Similarly, when you head to the Airport, you go through a completely different space and go and wait in a private, exclusive area that the public doesn't see and doesn't know exists. That if you aren't just going to a small private airport and getting on your own jet.

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Shot-Performance-494@reddit (OP)

I doubt it, plenty of wealthy people go to Starbucks regularly lol. I get the restaurant point fair enough, members lounge ? I’d say that’s something a middle class person could go for if they really wanted

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cgknight1@reddit

Never mentioned a members lounge so not sure what you mean? Are you confusing airport lounges with my point? I literally mean seperate areas for high value customers. No middle class customer would be in there.

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Lemon-Flower-744@reddit

'Plenty of wealthy people go to Starbucks?' I'm not wealthy and I go to Starbucks sometimes. I refuse to pay a lot of money for dog shit coffee. I'd like to think if I was wealthy, I'd must definitely go elsewhere for my coffee!

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Scattered97@reddit

First of all, the 'middle class' is something made up by capitalists in order to divide the working class. If you work for a living, you're working class. You either own the means of production or you don't, and if you don't, then you're working class. Class has nothing to do with wealth; it's about your relationship to the means of production. There's my controversial opinion of the day. Anyway, if I was rich, I'd have a lot more free time.

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xp3ayk@reddit

I wish that were the case but denying that class exists sadly doesn't make it true

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Scattered97@reddit

Class does exist. Everything is about class. But the 'middle' class is a fiction.

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SlightProgrammer@reddit

I like how you assume everyone on here is middle class (fair assumption based on the types of posts here)

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Competitive_Art_4480@reddit

It definitely is a fair assumption for the majority.

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rice_fish_and_eggs@reddit

"How can I be middle class? I work in IT and only earn 50k p/a, my dad was a postman" ~ average uk redditor.

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Competitive_Art_4480@reddit

"I don't think class exists in the UK" - only ever associated with other middle class people and think of working class people as scum who can't speak English properly.

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rice_fish_and_eggs@reddit

I'm pretty middle class but jesus, those "I am the 48%/ you're a cockwomble" types are insufferable. They seem to have infested the main uk sub.

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durkheim98@reddit

Even a lot of the 'working class' users are blatantly just overcompensating, self-loathing middle class people.

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woody83060@reddit

I believe it has been proven that over a certain level of income more money doesn't translate to more happiness.

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xp3ayk@reddit

But up to that level, which is higher than most people earn, money does translate to more happiness

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woody83060@reddit

Correct. From chatgpt: Research suggests that the level of income above which money no longer significantly translates to increased happiness is typically around $75,000 to $100,000 per year. Beyond this point, additional income tends to have diminishing returns on overall life satisfaction and happiness. This means that while money can contribute to happiness by providing security and access to resources, once basic needs and some comforts are met, other factors like relationships, experiences, and personal fulfillment become more important for overall happiness.

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xp3ayk@reddit

I think those figures are pre rampant inflation too, so will need to be inflated up

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Ok-Bag3000@reddit

Depends what kind of 'rich' we're talking......to some a person who earns £50k a year is rich, to others someone with £50m in the bank is rich. Are we talking 10's of millions, 100's of millions or billions rich?

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Harrry-Otter@reddit

If id been born into obscene wealth, i’d probably just have some kind of hobby business (importing Serrano ham or a vintners most likely) and spend my time that wasn’t spent with that fucking around on the family yacht or just eating and drinking myself to an early grave.

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xp3ayk@reddit

Incredibly different. I would reduce my hours to 4 days a week. I would be so much less stressed with an extra day off. I'd afford a cleaner, and my house wouldn't be a bombsite. I'd afford a gardener. I would get a nanny instead of paying for nursery and there suddenly, poof, all the stress in my mornings have disappeared. I would have so much more free time if I could afford to outsource all of this drudgery of day to day living I would be able to afford a monthly yoga membership so I'd be in much better shape. I would be able to go on a holiday abroad. I'm pretty well travelled but I have 3 kids and affording to backpack across Europe or Asia is very different to affording transport and accommodation for 5 people. I would be able to pay for the work that needs doing to my house without having to scrimp and save every month to try and get enough together (what I am currently doing)

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Frosty-Ad-6406@reddit

I grew up getting hand-me-down clothes, rarely ever went anywhere on holiday (even within the UK), and rarely saw my dad as he was so busy working trying to just keep the house afloat. After the work my family has put in we would be classed lower middle class - not because of particularly high earnings, but because my parents were smart enough to prioritize paying off a mortgage as opposed to wasting money on fancy cars and meals out which means now in their late 50s/60s they can go about the UK on holiday frequently, don't have any real money concerns, and can help myself and my brother out to an extent. So to get to the point why I mention that - if you were born into a wealthy family your life would be dramatically different than growing up in a family who worked for their money to become rich as if you just were a trust fund baby for example you have no real worries or pressures in life financially which cause the vast majority of issues people face on this planet. On the other hand, if your parents worked to become rich (and I mention this based on my ex partner who comes from a very upper middle class family) you tend to find while you have the money your family unit is fractured as you've focused so much on getting that money you neglect your family members - he has severe commitment issues due to his parents, his brother does also, his sister is a spoilt and entitled brat who contacts her parents for money while not wanting anything to do with them, and the black sheep of the family plays the benefit system for a free house while getting money sent by his parents and dealing drugs. So it really just depends on the way you acquire money in your life as opposed to the money itself - in general however if someone won the lottery tomorrow their life would be dramatically different and more easy than it is in its current state as the majority of issues in life would be gone and you would have so much more time to focus on family, friends, and health.

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Princes_Slayer@reddit

We just want enough to afford us more free time to do stuff before we kick the bucket or I’ll health takes the opportunity from us more than it’s started doing. Something like keeping current salary on a 3 day working week would be our kind of rich

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5n0wgum@reddit

More time and less work. I'd be healthier and live longer and could develop more as a person.

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Houseofsun5@reddit

Not have to get up and go to work would be the big difference.

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Round-Spite-8119@reddit

> would your day to day life really be that different ? Yes - cash is by far the biggest limiting factor on how I spend my time. > would your life really be that much better? 100%, yes. > So much so that it would be worth working so hard and putting all that energy in? If I could guarantee the outcome, yes. But it's rather easier said than done to "get rich" and a lot more than just "working hard" I can't help but feel you lack imagination - I could fill my time 100x over with enough cash

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tdog666@reddit

Right?! Having more money would fix 100% of my problems. If I earned even a ‘middle class’ wage, it would fix my problems. OP is so totally out of touch with this take.

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ConsidereItHuge@reddit

I'd immediately move to somewhere better. Loads of travel. So yes it would improve my life.

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Delicious_Opposite55@reddit

Steady on, let me get to middle class first before I start thinking about being rich

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Comprehensive_You42@reddit

I would own my own business, because with more generational wealth I would be able to follow interesting ideas beyond the first few hurdles. I would be able to ride through a couple of failures and really test out what works. The urgent, immediate need to make money on a monthly basis is incredibly limiting. It has stopped me from taking risks, because my family being housed and fed must come first. Agree with others about you characterising class in an un-British way but I understood the question.

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imminentmailing463@reddit

Pretty different. I'd live in a bigger home, be able to do more home renovation stuff, go on more and nicer holidays, eat out at expensive restaurants more, go to a fancier gym, go to more gigs. Plus, the considerable mental health benefit of worrying less about money. I think you underestimate how much nice stuff being rich can buy you and how different that can make your life. >So much so that it would be worth working so hard and putting all that energy in? This, however, is a different question. It's a no from me. I've got friends who have loads of money, and they have to work much harder and longer than me. I just don't want to do that.

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CarefulScience1329@reddit

Being rich cannot buy you being middle or upper class. Exhibit A, Mr Charlie Mullins.

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Alarmed_Crazy_6620@reddit

He's a wealthy person, living an absolutely upper class lifestyle but cultivating a bit of "excentric nouveau riche man of the people" persona? Many such cases

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CoffeeIgnoramus@reddit

Work less, enjoy more.

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ThreeRandomWords3@reddit

I wouldn't have a 9-5 job that sapped the life out of me so my day would be completely different. I would spend the day on my various vanity projects and "charities". All my hobbies are pretty expensive so I can't do them as much as I'd like to, being rich and having more times would mean I could actually get good at them.

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yuzusnail@reddit

I always find this question funny as an artist, cause it's means I'd have probably have the time and funding to finish old projects and probably start new ones. Though realistically I know that once you have more money, you just keep wanting more, so not much really changes work wise haha

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BidHuge3961@reddit

I’d probably be in my own house, providing for my children I wish to have planning future holidays and making dinner for my husband lol 😂

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Same_Adhesiveness_31@reddit

Being middle class would be nice enough!

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