Hezbollah rockets hit Golan after Israel strikes deep in Lebanon
Posted by The_Bear_Jew@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 93 comments
Posted by The_Bear_Jew@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 93 comments
I-Make-Maps91@reddit
"As fears of an all out invasion grow"
Israel has ordered the evacuation of a quarter of the land mass and something like a million civilians. This *is* all out war, what are they even talking about?
EternalMayhem01@reddit
Cross border raids and air strikes aren't a full war.
GalacticMe99@reddit
Learned nothing from Ukraine, did you?
EternalMayhem01@reddit
Poor comparison. Lebanon isn't at the level of Ukraine.
GalacticMe99@reddit
Not yet
ebola_kid@reddit
Yea, and Russia is just doing a Special Military Operation Policy Action in Ukraine which isn't a war either right
EternalMayhem01@reddit
Lebanon has yet to reach this level.
I-Make-Maps91@reddit
There are thousands of troops and multiple divisions involved. The US is openly worried that Israel might try to occupy Southern Lebanon. It's a hell of a lot more than "raids."
EternalMayhem01@reddit
So what you just said is the US is worried about this thing escalating into a war, so it isn't a war yet.
I-Make-Maps91@reddit
Nope, it is an all out invasion, the US is worried about the plans for tomorrow and the day after, but that doesn't make this not a war.
Again: they've forced the evacuation of a million people and effectively control a significant chunk of the country. People in the US scream about an invasion when some refugees hop the border, but you can't recognize the armed incursion of 4 divisions as an invasion?
Or are you the sort who also calls Ukraine a special military operation and Vietnam a police action?
EternalMayhem01@reddit
An Invasion doesn't mean a war.
Israel controls some border area, but can you name a city in Lebanon that they fully control? I haven't heard.
Lebanon isn't at this level. When it is sure you can call it a war.
I-Make-Maps91@reddit
https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/01/middleeast/israel-ground-incursion-lebanon-explainer-intl-hnk/index.html
So no, you can't call a spade a spade. But your own words betray you, how can a foreign nation control territory outside their borders against the will of the country they're in unless... It's an invasion.
I see the this invasion prefers to go by "limited ground operation" but I think even you could admit that the exact thing happening to the US or a European country would be described as an invasion. Or maybe you'll keep playing dumb, I dunno, you do you, but it's getting old.
EternalMayhem01@reddit
Again, an invasion doesn't mean a war
Also, you said Israel controls significant terrority, but you didn't name a Lebanese village, town or city. The terrority Israel controls is some border area, and this goes back to what I first said that these cross-border raids aren't a war.
In regards to your link, it is CNN calling it a war, but what you quoted from Israelis is different. The UN in the article uses sporadic raids.
You want to call it a war, I don't see it as a war yet. We can have different opinions and be respectful about it.
Bosde@reddit
You are both arguing semantics at this point. It is a war, the latest phase of which started in October last year. It is also not as intense a war as it could be, with Israel only just now beginning a limited land invasion of Lebanese territory.
Flitting between the use of the terms 'war' and 'invasion' is confusing both of you in the discussion above. War is one term that can be used to describe a state of armed conflict between two or more parties. An invasion is the hostile incursion into the territory of another party. Invasions can be acts of war. Not all wars involve invasion.
This war now involves an invasion. Whether it stays limited is something that remains to be seen.
ExoticCard@reddit
It's funny when news websites always say "Hezbollah, which is backed by Iran,..."
But they never say "Israel, which is backed by the US". If not for the US, Israel would have been toppled by now.
Ghost-Of-Roger-Ailes@reddit
It’s important to emphasize. I’ve seen many Iran apologists who, following the missile attack on primarily military targets, conveniently forgot about how they sponsored terrorist groups for decades.
Also every other week there’s a news article about the US sending aid/arms to Israel
I-Make-Maps91@reddit
The US has also sponsored terrorist groups for decades. Welcome to geopolitics in a region full of non state actors.
Ghost-Of-Roger-Ailes@reddit
The whataboutism people use to justify murdering innocent people is seemingly ubiquitous, as though one terrorist group is better than another
I-Make-Maps91@reddit
I'm not justifying shit, I'm just tired of the naked hypocrisy that happens when Israelis are killed vs any other civilian population. The US shouldn't be helping either side of this conflict with anything but diplomacy, because the rest of the region is watching how the US helps save Israel civilians while aiding and abetting the deaths of Arab and Palestinian civilians. Do you think they'll just forgive that, or do you think we've just planted the seeds of the terror attacks 10-20 years down the line?
Ghost-Of-Roger-Ailes@reddit
And I wasn't justifying America's inveolvement in the Middle East, but here we are. And I don't think Israeli's population is also going to be very forgiving of October 7th, but the cycle of violence must churn on
ebola_kid@reddit
Crazy how it's been a year and October 7th is still used to justify murdering civilians. How many more have to die before Israel forgives Oct. 7, another 40,000?
Shachar_IL@reddit
Maybe release the civilian hostages you kidnapped from their homes and kept for over a year?
Mr-Anderson123@reddit
Maybe let the Palestinians have their own country and land and you will get your hostages (that Israel itself is killing btw)
Caffeywasright@reddit
So you are justifying the murder and rape of civilians who have nothing to do with that, in order to achieve some goal of independence?
Mr-Anderson123@reddit
Not justifying at all. I understand their decision to do all those things since they were prisoners of an open air concentration camp throughout their lives. They didn’t have a present nor a past nor a future due to the conditions Israel was imposing upon them. It’s like saying the holocaust survivors are horrible people because they hated the Germans. Sure, their sentiment is horrible but completely understandable and something their oppressors brought upon themselves.
Caffeywasright@reddit
Just using the word koncentration camp about Gaza shows how insane that take is. Comparing it to the holocaust must be some new level of psychosis I can’t even begin to imagine.
During the holocaust 60a-70% of the entire Jewish population was murdered during the holocaust.
In the past 50 years when Israel had control over Gaza their population GREW by almost a 1000%.
Your comment is both mindnumpingly stupid and extremely offensive.
Mr-Anderson123@reddit
Just dismissing that Gaza has lived under inhumane conditions in what amounted into an open air concentration camp shows how insane your take is. During Israel occupation, they perpetuated an apartheid in occupied territories, they committed genocide (see nabka) and have confined the Palestinians into a small region where they go in every couple of years “to mow the lawn”.
You are either an ignorant or arguing on bad faith. So no, your post is insane and incredibly wrong
Caffeywasright@reddit
Are you allergic to the truth or something? Again. The word concentration camp came into wide use during world war 2. Then it was used to describe camps that was response for the murder and genocide of 60-70% of the total amount of Jews living in Europe.
Gaza’s population is exclusively Arab and has grown 1000% since Israel took over. How in the fuck are you comparing these two situations?
Also Hamas has been running Gaza for over 20 years. Israel has no administrative rights over them. They just don’t allow them to enter Israel without restriction, so please explain how Israel has set up an apartheid society in a region they maintain no administrative or actual control over.
Hamas has not set up an apartheid society because they simply murdered all the remaining Jews in Gaza.
Mr-Anderson123@reddit
Between the both of us, it’s not me who’s allergic to the truth, Gaza has no future when more than half the people live in unemployment without any prospects, when almost every family in Gaza has lost members to the ongoing genocide (that even the ICJ has found ground to consider ongoing). You have only showed ignorance when arguing, concentration camp doesn’t mean extermination, it’s a place of imprisonment for large quantities of people with inadequate resources. That’s exactly what Gaza is and something Israel has made policy since its independence. The Israelis have created an ethnocentric system where the Jews are the master in top of the rest of people (hell even some Jews like the Ethiopian Jews live like second class citizens). You don’t even know what the Nabka is since you are so bent on denying Israeli atrocities and genocide.
One would think that someone in Europe would know what ethnonationalism does but it seems lessons are forgotten when enough time has passed.
Torakkk@reddit
So you are justyfing murder of civilians by illegal occupations of land, assasinations im sovereign nations etc? It can be used both ways.
Caffeywasright@reddit
No it can’t. That’s the point. Israel is not committing terror attacks against Hamas or Gaza they aren’t actively targeting civilians. There hasn’t been an attack by Israel into Gaza for decades before the Hamas attack.
Shachar_IL@reddit
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c303d4pdpg6o
Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005, Hamas made clear they only care about getting the rest of Israel
mnmkdc@reddit
They pulled out and kept a blockade on them from day 1. They also kept significant control within the borders such as preventing them from building ports or certain infrastructure. It was essentially still occupied, the troops were just on the border instead.
The stated reason for pulling out was also “freezing the peace process” because people were getting too sympathetic to Palestinians’ apartheid claims.
https://www.haaretz.com/2004-10-06/ty-article/top-pm-aide-gaza-plan-aims-to-freeze-the-peace-process/0000017f-e56c-dea7-adff-f5ff1fc40000
Essentially the plan was just so they could get people like you to claim it was no longer Israel’s fault while making very few actual concessions.
rowida_00@reddit
I don’t quite understand why some people use Israel’s disengagement in 2005 as proof that the occupation of Gaza has ceased at that point in time when Israel has always remained the occupied power in accordance to international law!
ebola_kid@reddit
If by withdrew you mean set up a massive fence around Gaza and shot at anyone who went near the fence then sure
mnmkdc@reddit
Israel hasn’t prioritized the hostages. I’m not sure why people are still using this argument.
ebola_kid@reddit
I kidnapped them? Yea man I was there and am apart of Hamas lmao
themightycatp00@reddit
Why do we need to forgive hamas for 7/10? Did any ever asked the Americans to forgive al qaeda for 9/11?
ebola_kid@reddit
They also shouldn't have murdered exponentially more people as retribution if that's what you're looking for.
Nobody is asking you to forgive, just to stop killing so many civilians and children and your own citizens that are hostages
Zipz@reddit
The 40k includes Hamas and Palestinian militants they aren’t all just civilians.
Don’t do that
mnmkdc@reddit
The 40k is also almost certainly lower than the actual number.
Zipz@reddit
Why would it be wrong ?
Both Israel and Hamas both agree on roughly the number. It’s around ~43k and both sides have had reliable numbers in the past
mnmkdc@reddit
Because there’s been very little reporting in the north and most health facilities are shut down. It’s common in urban combat situations that the estimated number during the actual combat ends up being a fraction of the final tally.
Zipz@reddit
By how much are you suggesting ?
mnmkdc@reddit
Who knows? The ipc reported that a lot of northern Gaza was experiencing famine a few months ago so it could be very severe depending on that situation. We really don’t know the extent of it, the point is that 43000 is more like the lower bound for estimates
Zipz@reddit
“Who knows”
So we should go based of no information than what we have ?
Again the numbers have been close and reliable on the last. Let alone the Gaza ministry of health does release both the dead and missing every single day. There isn’t going to be a huge increase at the moment unless something drastically changes.
So again if we are going based on reliable public numbers. He is clearly saying every single person Palestine killed was a civillian and not connected to any militant factions.
That’s just boldly incorrect and I see it written all the time.
SpinningHead@reddit
Tens of thousands of children murdered by Israel and youre like. "How many could it be?"
mnmkdc@reddit
We should go off of it as being a lower bound.
They’ve has had relatively accurate reporting in the past, but there hasn’t been a past war like this. Gaza is leveled. Theres probably many people buried under rubble that haven’t been reported missing. The increase would come post war when they’re able to properly assess everything.
He didn’t say that none of them are Hamas. We know most of them aren’t Hamas though. He asked you how many were Hamas and you said “more than 0”. I’m explaining that “more than 0” civilians are dead and not included in that number. 40000 civilians being dead in this war isn’t even unlikely.
Zipz@reddit
Or we can go off his number. 40k total dead and 1k hamas dead with his laughably incorrect by his numbers
mnmkdc@reddit
It seems like you just totally disregarded the conversation prior to the last comment. Youre blatantly arguing in bad faith
Zipz@reddit
Well his comment is the sparked that sent this off and he finally commented back with more information. He was clearly saying 40k are dead with 1k dead hamas. According to him that’s generous. That’s a problem.
It’s not 40:1
It’s very important to call out misinformation. You assumed his intentions earlier he cleared it up and he and you were wrong. I need to point that out so I did.
Now with your assumption that ~40k is the low end. Again we the ministry of Heath every single day has released numbers and those who are missing. Hospitals are still running we are still getting reports from them. Their no massive reports anywhere of deaths massive starvation. I agree it will be higher because these are confirmed but it’s not changing by much at all at the end.
See the problem again is you are assuming it’s on the low end.
mnmkdc@reddit
He’s going off the fact that you refused to answer and just said “more than 0” as he says in the comment.
I’m going to restate that a famine was confirmed in part of northern Gaza. I’m also going to repeat that it is expected in urban combat like this that the reports during the war are vast underestimates. You wouldn’t expect “massive reports”. Theres a huge lack of reporting in general. Theres no problem with the assumption that this is a lower bound. It’s a very obvious assumption. You are just clouded by a preconceived notion you have of this.
420Fps@reddit
The 40k is just identified. If a body cant be identified it is not added to the 40k
Person5_@reddit
If they don't do that, their points get weaker. Best to obfuscate as many facts as possible.
Torakkk@reddit
Isnt most adult Israel population trained as soldier? Couldnt they be any minute called to arms? The same you count palestinians as possible soldiers?
And im not supporting or agreeing with any attack on civilians. By both sides....
Zipz@reddit
Retired military are considered civillians……
Crazy how you just tried to justify the slaughter of civilians and war crimes
Torakkk@reddit
Wow. Never talked about retired military. Im talking about army reserves. And how do you know that majority of those 40k people werent civilians?
ebola_kid@reddit
How many are militants?
Zipz@reddit
Not zero
ebola_kid@reddit
Ok so we'll generously say 1000 of them are militants. That's still 39000+ dead civilians
Zipz@reddit
Where are you getting this thousand militants from?
You just keep making up numbers
ebola_kid@reddit
I asked you how many militants died and you said "more than zero", which implies you have no clue lol. I'm making one up because nobody knows and it's used to justify how so many civilians have died. You can realistically believe even 10% of the 40,000 dead are militants, right?
Zipz@reddit
Well we have Hamas own number we can use
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israels-six-week-drive-hit-hamas-rafah-scale-back-war-2024-02-19/
6k militants dead when the death toll was 29k
Israel says at the same time 12k militants at 19k
Mind you this is 8 months ago
SiIverwolf@reddit
Right, because it's Israel's forgiveness that Palestinians need after 75 years of Israeli apartheid against them.
The Nakba never ended.
But it's the oppressor crying victim, while they announce that they're going to level yet another country to the ground.
I-Make-Maps91@reddit
Of the two of us, you're the only one accusing the other of anything.
Sure, but being upset about something doesn't justify war crimes. I can condemn everyone who commits those without equivocation or trying to justify them, can you?
ExoticCard@reddit
One terrorist group is certainly portrayed better in the media
GalacticMe99@reddit
Iranians will refuse to walk around with a Hijab for a day and think they did a good job at defying their government.
OnlyRadioheadLyrics@reddit
I see what you did there ^^ you rascal you
The_Automator22@reddit
Hezbollah is a terrorist organization. This is why it's important to communicate where their funding comes from. Hezbollah also illegally occupies southern Lebanon, both the UN and the Lebaense government have ordered them to disarm and leave.
Also, everyone knows that Israel is a US ally. The US and Israel are not hiding this fact.
ExoticCard@reddit
The IDF is a terrorist organization. This why it's important to communicate where their funding comes from. The IDF also illegally occupies the West Bank, and the international community has repeatedly condemned Israel for it.
BloodySaxon@reddit
Delusional
Old_Wallaby_7461@reddit
Israel often does things the US doesn't like. Hezbollah never does things Iran doesn't like. it is, de facto, sort of an IRGC foreign legion.
Flintstones_VRV_Fan@reddit
Israel often does things the US doesn’t like, and the US still caves to their every whim. Might be the multiple millions that AIPAC spends on manipulating US elections, but who could ever know.
Old_Wallaby_7461@reddit
AIPAC's power is ludicrously overstated, like the NRA's. Israel is popular in the US. So are AR-15s. The power of each group comes from strong feelings in the population- it is bottom-up, not top-down.
Hezbollah has as much power in Iranian politics as the USMC does in American politics.
rowida_00@reddit
I mean, you’re equally ludicrously understating their influence. They form the backbone of funding candidates they want to reach office which isn’t marginal.
vahidy@reddit
The only reason for that is that Hezb doesn't have an AIPAC inside Iran
Old_Wallaby_7461@reddit
This is like saying that the US Army doesn't have an AIPAC inside the US
ExoticCard@reddit
Or you just don't hear about them due to a pretty high language barrier?
Old_Wallaby_7461@reddit
Nope. They are closer to a branch of the Iranian state than they are an independent foreign entity.
The houthis and hamas are far more independent.
BrownThunderMK@reddit
And yet hamas, a force vastly weaker than Hezbollah, still suicidally attacked israel on 10/7 which dragged all of its allies into the fight. And every single indication we have points to the fact that Iran knew nothing until it happened.
The idea that these so called 'proxies' don't have their own agency, goals, and aspirations is absurd, I always see this bs about 'oh hamas, hezbollah, houthis and friends are taking orders from iran' like no, iran just signs the checks, same as Israel and the US. By that reductive logic Israel is a US proxy.
Which come to think of it, it isn't completely untrue.
Old_Wallaby_7461@reddit
Hamas isn't Hezbollah.
Hamas isn't even Shiite. Hamas gets weapons from Iran, sure, and some military advice, and there is some coordination, but the only real bond is Israel. If Israel disappeared tomorrow I doubt the relations would be friendly for long.
The Houthis are much closer to Iran, but they are independent. They really do what they want- the Iranians just feed them missiles to cause the US, Israel, and Saudi Arabia heartburn.
Hezbollah is not like either of them. Hezbollah is more or less a de facto part of the Iranian government. The ties are very tight- religious, military, geographic, economic. In Syria Hezbollah and the IRGC fought as a fully integrated whole- almost like the relationship between Chechen units of the Russian Army and the rest of that force. Much closer than the relations between the US and any other country, Israel included.
Flintstones_VRV_Fan@reddit
This is a great point.
The idea that a group of people who have been oppressed for decades need a direction from a foreign government to act is absurd. They’re funded certainly, but the idea that an organization collectively made of people whose families were executed in previous Israeli attacks has no agency is naive at best.
Caffeywasright@reddit
Because there is a massive difference between a nation selling weapons to another nation, and a nation covertly funding a terror group to strike at another nation they aren’t officially at war with.
I can’t believe that has to be said.
DACOOLISTOFDOODS@reddit
Israel has won multiple wars against multiple actual nations without support from the US. They'd be fine without us; we don't need to support them financially
CaveRanger@reddit
The last time Israel fought an 'actual nation' that wasn't Palestine was 1973.
DACOOLISTOFDOODS@reddit
Nope. If you count Hezbollah and the other Lebanese groups it was 2006. If you don't, it was 1982.
steve-o1234@reddit
Talk about creating false equivalencies that are both completely irrelevant and completely miss the point but also incorrect.
NymusRaed@reddit
Golan? So basically territory of Lebanon and Syria which is currently occupied by settlers? Is that what the headline tries to say or am I just trying to put some extra words in this sentence so that this comment has the required amount of words?
meister2983@reddit
From your nation's POV. Mine says it is fully Israeli.
GalacticMe99@reddit
Lebanon does not lay official claim to the Golan Heights, only Syria does.
empleadoEstatalBot@reddit
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Hi empleadoEstatalBot,
We've found 4 sources (so far) that are covering this story including:
BBC News (Center): "Hezbollah rockets hit Golan Heights after Israel strikes deep in Lebanon"
Fox News (Right): "Hezbollah rocket barrage hammers homes in Golan Heights"
So far, there hasn't been any coverage from the LEFT.
Of all the sources reporting on this story, 50% are right-leaning, 0% are left-leaning, and 50% are in the center. Read the full coverage analysis and compare how 4+ sources from across the political spectrum are covering this story.
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