Am I doing something wrong or are just PSU wattage approximations way overblown?

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Lucky-Tell4193@reddit

You don’t need a 850 watt power supply that will be a waste of money

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aVarangian@reddit

850w is enough for a 355w XTX + 180w 13600k, though it doesn't leave much headroom

certainly overkill for a 4060

my 1070 + 6600k has a 550w

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Certainly doable though, especially with a lower wattage Ryzen CPU or Nvidia GPU. I'm currently running a 7900XT and 5600x on a 650w, no issues since I got the XT back when it launched. Typical draw when gaming at 4k is around 400-450w.

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Armbrust11@reddit

USB 3.0 peripherals can draw up to 7.5w each, and USB C ports are supposed to support 15w each. My desktop has 8 rear USB 3.0 and 2 front, plus one USB C port on each side. That's another 105w. Additionally I'm not sure what the wattage of the onboard WiFi, case fans, aio water cooler, rgb, audio amp, etc is but I'd budget 50-100w.

Each PCI slot is also supposed to be able to support 75w of bus power (without a supplemental power cord like GPUs commonly have). So even if you have an unpopulated slot or your PCI add in is low power, it is still recommended to be able to support the full power that you could use.

Finally, PSUs degrade over time. The power delivered after 5 years and 10 years is lower than the first use.

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ClickKlockTickTock@reddit

There's a difference between rms wattage (your average wattage while playing/sitting/doing things) and peak wattage (spikes in power for whatever reason, if your BIOS has automatic overclocking enabled)

Then you have the fact that a higher wattage psu can handle more power than whatever your rigs rms is, which means that its built to cool components that take more power, so the fan of the psu will not have to run as often/hard as a psu that is being pinned at its max voltage.

Most gpus are more efficient around 30-80% load, with 50% (+-10% depending on psu) typically having the highest efficiencies. Max load a psu could have 70% efficiency, but at 50 it could have 95%. This really just affects your power bill, but it is worth noting.

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hwertz10@reddit

I think there are 2 reasons:

1) "E-Peen". This is an antiquated term for people having a dick measuring contest. I mean, why would you want a 850W power supply, go for an even 1000!

2) If you end up with one of those models where they exaggerate and fib just a tad on the actual ratings, you have a large margin so your PSU is less likely to have a meltdown.

As for #1, that's not a good reason at all.

As for #2, you already have close to a 40% margin, over 200W. Even if you end up with one of "those" models, you are running it far enough under it's max rating you shouldn't have any problems anyway.

You forgot the possibly 10-25W for the motherboard chipset, but the taking off for the 80% efficiency margin (which as others say is already accounted for) makes up for that and then some. To be honest I think even a 350-400W PSU would be "OK" (the 310W is peak, I wouldn't be surprised if you weren't usually under 200W in most games..), but the 550W gives you a very healthy margin, and I think is an excellent choice for this system.

Have a good one!
--Henry

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InsideAmbitious4758@reddit

I tend to buy a PSU that's a bit overkill to leave room for later upgrades. Generally, there's not a huge difference in price.

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n7_trekkie@reddit

Then I account for PSU inefficiency, assuming 80% efficiency. This gives me 0.8x = 410 therefore x = 512W.

the efficiency loss is built into the PSU rating, so you dont have to do that. if a PSU says it can output 750W, that means it's rated to output 750W from a higher value from the wall

Rounding upwards to nearest CPU wattage I get 550W. Why is it then that many people recommend 850W for RTX 4060 and basically whichever CPU?

IDK, that's stupid. 850W is good for a 4090+7800x3d system.

it's good to account for power spikes from a GPU. spikes can be significantly higher than the GPU average.

https://tpucdn.com/review/msi-geforce-rtx-4060-gaming-x/images/power-gaming.png

https://tpucdn.com/review/msi-geforce-rtx-4060-gaming-x/images/power-spikes.png

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Beelzeboss3DG@reddit

Good PSUs can deal with those tho, otherwise you'd need a 1kw psu for a 6900XT.

My RM750x can deliver up to 1kw for a very short period of time during those spikes.

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TheBupherNinja@reddit

New psus can. Older psus couldn't.

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Teleria86@reddit

Weird take and wrong at the same time.

Many people with a 6900XT HAD to switch from a 750W/850W to a 1000W power supply. Look at old threads about it, it was discussed a lot.

Good PSU´s were NOT supposed to deal with those power spikes that RX6xxx and RTX3xxx had. A GOOD psu is supposed to protect itself and your hardware. In order to protect them, before RX6xxx and RTX3xxx happened, the limit the OCP triggers was slightly above the constant power the PSU can handle. Like in your example, up to 1000W for a 750W PSU. That is what a good PSU did. Sure that was changed with the introduction of ATX3.0 for PSUs, but before that was true. Depending on which 6900XT you had and the rest of the hardware, the OCP would trigger when gaming. Depending on those scenarios the transient spikes reported range was from 500W up to even 900W. If you have one of those 6900XT´s with higher transient spikes, even a 7800X3D with it lower power consumption and just a few fans would trigger the OCP of your RM750X and your PC would shut down....

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Beelzeboss3DG@reddit

I had a heavily OC'd 6800XT, no issues. Now I got a 3090, no issues. But ok, sure.

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Teleria86@reddit

A 6800XT is not a 6900XT. More than just a few specific models. Almost every single seasonic model at the time had issues dealing with 6900xt. It went that far that seasonic send those people a new 24 pin motherboard cable that had "less noise" on few models that helped, not on all of them. Google seasonic and 6900xt... Then come back and tell me again it was a minority.

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Beelzeboss3DG@reddit

It was. If you google anything bad, you will find bad results. People didnt create posts saying "My 6900XT works just fine with a 750w GPU".

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Teleria86@reddit

Ah that is why Seasonic created a new cable against that issue... Because it was a minority.. bad trolling dude.

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Beelzeboss3DG@reddit

You think Seasonic would do NOTHING if even a minority of their 850w PSUs were not functioning correctly?... bad trolling dude.

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Teleria86@reddit

Looking at your other posts.. yeah didnt realize i was dealing with a kid..

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Beelzeboss3DG@reddit

Yeah, a 36y kid. Stalk me more, wont change the fact that you're wrong. Talked to JonnyGURU in this very sub and he was using a RM750x with a 3090Ti in one of his PCs back then lmao.

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Beelzeboss3DG@reddit

Many people with a 6900XT HAD to switch from a 750W/850W to a 1000W power supply. Look at old threads about it, it was discussed a lot.

Many people with a 6900XT HAD to switch from a 750W/850W to a 1000W power supply. Look at old threads about it, it was discussed a lot.

There were certain specific models of good 750-850w PSUs that couldnt handle the spikes. They were a minority. Mostly EVGA iirc.

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Teleria86@reddit

The thing is, many people with a 750w or 850W psu had to switch to a 1000W psu. So i dont know why you put it that way. You can look at old threads where people talked about it.

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LkMMoDC@reddit

I wouldn't rely on that over the total life of the PSU. While everything but the fan is solid state there is still degradation. A PSU that could handle a transient spike ~20% above its rated load might not be able to do that 4-7 years down the line.

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ATangK@reddit

Maybe they’re accounting for intel systems not ryzen.

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popop143@reddit

Ehhh, even with a 14900K + 4060, that shouldn't need that high of a wattage. That's around 440W for that system, so a 550W or 650W should be fine.

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ATangK@reddit

What if they have water cooling and lots of LEDs. And then using PC to charge or power usb devices.

A 14900k in such a system won’t be happy.

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popop143@reddit

LEDs are known for having really low wattage, and water cooling parts use around 20W only. 650W already has allowance for the 14900K+4060.

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ATangK@reddit

Some people have lcd displays and all sorts of things. Lowest common denominator.

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popop143@reddit

Sure, you can add all sorts of things and it's still below. The max power draw of a 14900 is "only" around 360W, while the 4060 is max TDP at 115W (90W is the usual operating wattage). I'm telling you, you can add things and 650W still has plenty of allowance. Also you're just adding tons of unrealistic things that a theoretical person with a 14900K + 4060 should just get a better GPU plus a 750W at that point instead of all the things you're trying to add just to be an insufferable asshole.

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Beelzeboss3DG@reddit

They DO have to cover their asses and account for people putting a 4060 with a 14900K haha

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sdcar1985@reddit

My measly CPU has nothing against 2-300w cpus lol. Mine draws like ~100w at most all core.

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ATangK@reddit

Intel: our cpus are 2 in 1 as they come packaged with a mini space heater.

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thejmkool@reddit

The efficiency headroom is actually a good thing to have. The reason is, a PSU is more efficient if it's drawing power towards the middle of the range it could supply. There's misunderstandings all around surrounding this, but that's a simple fact. If your system is going to regularly be drawing 500w, then having a PSU rated for 600 or 700 is going to be less wasted energy than having one rated for only 500.

A lot of people fail to account for idle time though, so if most of your system uptime is idle and it only draws 100w at idle having a 1000w PSU is actually not great, and you're wasting relatively a lot of power by operating at the inefficient end of the scale.

However, the difference on good modern PSUs is negligible. Get you a platinum rated PSU with a rating a little higher than the highest draw you can see yourself putting in your box before upgrading the power supply, and think no more about it.

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kaje@reddit

You don't need to account for efficiency. The PSU's advertised wattage is how much it can supply to your components. Its efficiency affects how much it draws from your outlet. Like, a 550W rated PSU at 80% efficiency would be drawing ~690W from the wall if you were maxing the PSU out. They're more like 90% though.

People do tend to overbuy on the PSU here by a lot though IMO.

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DependentUnit4775@reddit

I am seriously amazed you are actually positive voted with a sane statement like that, I usually get downvoted, could be I usually call people dumb for recommending anything above 750w

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MarkD_127@reddit

Probably because you're insulting people for no reason when there's perfectly valid reason to get more than a 750w.

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DependentUnit4775@reddit

for 1% of people, yes

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MarkD_127@reddit

What 1% of people? You're calling someone sane for saying 750W is fine for a system that can draw over 700W. No sane person should recommend gaming at 90-95% load, and nobody buying a 4090 can't afford the extra $40-50 for a little PSU headroom.

For any mid-range system, the $35 diff between a cx750 and an rm850 is easy to fit into the budget and has the benefits of lower noise, heat, operating cost, and wear. And for people who don't care about those things, it also comes with upgrade headroom and a 10yr warranty.

Unless you're on a really tight budget where it would force you to downgrade something else, there's really no downside to a reasonable amount of headroom.

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DependentUnit4775@reddit

4090 systems account for less than 1% of builds. And the vast majority of 4090 builds run perfectly fine with 750w. What part do you not understand?

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CloudyRanger@reddit

I mean for $20 more you can go from a 650w to an 850w. Why not have the option to upgrade other components down the road?

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Lokomalo@reddit

Barely. I have a build on parts picker, 7800x3d, 4090, 32G, 1TB SSD and it estimates 725W.

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Lefthandpath_@reddit

Part picker is overestimating and showing you the realistic max of what you could possibly need. That setup in normal use is not going to draw anywhere near 725w.

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hesh582@reddit

Why on earth would you cut that close to save like 10 dollars, though.

Sure, it’s probably not needed, but the price increase is so minor that I really don’t understand

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MarkD_127@reddit

Same. When a c-tier cx750 with a 5yr warranty can be had for $65, what trash are people recommending/using in order to argue that headroom isn't worth the extra money? There's only a few lower wattage PSU I'd even recommend, which might save you $10-15.

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Skepsis93@reddit

Why would you buy under the realistic max though? Yes 500W will be enough for 99.9% of the time, but if my machine is trying to draw the maximum I want it to be able to do so.

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DiabloII@reddit

Ye estimates...

I run 7800x3d (OC) 32gb RAM (also OC with custom timmings) and 4090 with OC... All on SFX 750w psu while hammering it at full load in pathtraced cyberpunk.

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_barat_@reddit

I have 5800x3d, 4090, 64GB, 2x nVME, Intel NIC (i226-v double port) and like 8 140mm fans and i never saw more than 600W on my UPS (where also Monitor and Synology DS916+ is connected).
I have 850W Gold PSU and it's plenty.

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PersnickityPenguin@reddit

I have an old 1800x with 6800, my power meter never showed more than about 350 watt draw.

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damien09@reddit

Yep really depends on how hard your pushing the 4090. Maxed after burner power slider and let the GPU pull 600w. But if it's just stock 750w should squeak by and 850 is what Nvidia even recommends

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karmapopsicle@reddit

The X3D here makes a pretty significant difference because both its average and peak power consumption are extremely low for its overall performance. Low enough that even the transient power spikes that may hit 500-550W on that 4090 still leaves plenty enough headroom for the system.

The main concern would be around running something like a 4090 with an extremely power hungry CPU, particularly if overclocking or benchmarking/stress testing. If your CPU is chugging back 300W crunching an all-core stress test and you load up Furmark and hit a 550W spike with your 4090, that combined with the rest of the system's power usage could be enough to trip the overcurrent protection on something like a 750W unit.

Worth noting that pretty much all good PSUs that have been revised or updated since 2020/2021 have been designed to accomodate these spikes now.

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HSR47@reddit

There are four things to keep in mind:

PC hardware tends to get less power efficient as it ages, so it’s a good idea to have a bit of headroom.
Upgrades you add later may be more power-hungry than your current hardware (e.g. more powerful GPU, more storage, etc.).
A PSU that’s well under its max output is going to run cooler, and therefore quieter.
Most PSUs hit peak efficiency at ~50% load.

My experience has been that aiming for somewhere reasonably close to twice what I strictly need is the right call. When I built my current PC of Theseus, that pointed to ~850W (3900X + 1080 + 2HDD).

“Overbuying” on my PSU meant that I didn’t have to worry about upgrading my PSU when I swapped out my CPU and GPU (5800X3D & 3080).

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Skepsis93@reddit

I bought an 850W PSU and it has a 10 year warranty. If I want to use it for the full lifespan, I need to start with a bunch of headroom for later upgrades. Until then, the headroom is nice and my PSU has a silent mode so during a low enough load the fan isn't even on.

Also swapping a PSU, rerouting cables, and doing cable management all over again is a massive pain IMO. I essentially consider the PSU as an extension of the case due to their longevity and the hassle.

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HSR47@reddit

Exactly.

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eulen-spiegel@reddit

Most PSUs hit peak efficiency at ~50% load.

Well, then you'll have to take into account whether the PC is mostly idle (general usage PC with low time % used gaming/heavy tasks) or dedicated for gaming (high time % on high levels of consumption).

It's not easy I think.

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brendan87na@reddit

PC hardware tends to get less power efficient as it ages

TIL I am the same as PC hardware

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MaelstromOC@reddit

I run a 7900x3d with a 4090 and some decent cooling and fans on an 850w and my ups shows I get pretty close here and there when the system is really loaded

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TheMysticalBard@reddit

I have a 7950x3d and a 4090 and kept crashing with an 850W PSU. As soon as I switched to a 1000W everything was fine. So I don't think skirting it close to the line is a good idea.

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DiabloII@reddit

Bad PSU then. I run fully OC system, RAM/GPU/CPU on 750W and its fine at 100% load. The PSU stays silent as well.

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TheMysticalBard@reddit

It was not a bad PSU. They are both A-tier, brand new PSUs from Corsair. The 850 W is being used by a different system now and runs perfectly.

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NetQvist@reddit

Def a bad PSU.

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JayTheSuspectedFurry@reddit

The man at Best Buy told me I would want more than 750W with a 3060 :(

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Lost-Experience-5388@reddit

3060 has more power consumption than 4060, but 750 is still enough for 3060. Except if you plan on upgrade

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nybreath@reddit

Everything you said seems correct, but still the 80% step isnt a stupid one.
You dont want to use a 550W max rated PSU to work at max load all the times.
So if he plans to draw 450Wish, it is still a good step to go above 10-20% with a 500-550Wish.

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bobsim1@reddit

Also the efficiency of a psu isnt much concern either. Bequiet lists their PSUs efficiencies. A straight power 850w is at 61% efficiency at 2% load. But at 10% load already at 89% and at 90% load still over 92%. So nothing to care about.

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warpigz@reddit

True, although most PSUs can only supply their power for 12V loads and have lower limits when 3.3V and 5V draws are significant.

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Zuokula@reddit

I just use 20-30% headroom recommendation. So 550W would be more than 30% headroom.

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Historical-Wash-1870@reddit

What if you upgrade to very fast GPU in the next 10 years?

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cthabsfan@reddit

I’m glad someone is being the voice of reason in this thread.

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J3diMind@reddit

so you rather buy one oversized PSU because maybe in ten years you'll get a 4090? make this make sense

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cthabsfan@reddit

I was under the impression that we were both being very sarcastic.

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J3diMind@reddit

apologies xD

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eatingpotatochips@reddit

Another victim of sarcasm not carrying through the internet.

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Zuokula@reddit

Wouldn't use something like 4090 with a 10 year old PSU

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Sol33t303@reddit

I'll use anything with a 10 year old PSU (currently have my RX 7800 XT running on an 8 year old 1000W PSU) as long as warrenty is still there.

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Lefthandpath_@reddit

Most power supplys (decent ones) are warranteed for 10 years or thereabouts. Which means the manufacturer realistically expects the product to last that long. After 10 years you should be replacing your PSU really, not using it to power the cutting edge latest GPU's. If you're buying a $2k GPU in 10 years time, spend the extra $100 to get a decent new PSU to power it lmao.

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Historical-Wash-1870@reddit

I said in the next 10 years. Meaning some time in the next 10 years. Tomorrow is a time in the next 10 year period.

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Holgrin@reddit

Lol

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eatingpotatochips@reddit

Then why doesn't everyone just run 1600W PSUs? You might as well predict yourself using four GPUs and a Threadripper in the next 10 years.

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Atheist-Gods@reddit

The ATX 3.0 standard includes being able to accommodate 100% spikes. The listed watts is for sustained output and the consumer isn't expected to personally account for transient spikes.

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Zuokula@reddit

ATX 3.0 is for the PSU itself isn't it. It doesn't mean you need a PSU with wattage that is double the power draw of components. It means that PSU is able to take a peak of 100% of its rating. The way I understand. Only saw like 350w max power in hwinfo from a 288w GPU in 100% load benchmark.

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Gastronomicus@reddit

I don't believe HWinfo is capable of estimating transient peaks very well. You need specialised tools to see transient 1 ms peaks which can be +/-150W in some cases. A good PSU should be able to handle that, but if you're pushing the edge of your max rating then that can get dicey.

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karmapopsicle@reddit

That's something I really appreciate about TechPowerUp's reviews. After reports of 30-series cards tripping OCP on some PSUs, they went and significantly upgraded their power consumption measurement equipment setup to allow much finer measurements of transient current spikes. They've had a "Spikes 20ms" section in their power consumption measurements for a few years now.

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pixel_of_moral_decay@reddit

If you’re doing the math doesn’t hurt to look at it.

Peak efficiency is normally >20% load < 80% load. Picking a PSU that keeps you in the sweet spot is generally not a bad idea.

Especially if you live in a place where power is expensive.

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Shadowfist_45@reddit

Well, it would be fine if you don't run the 4090 at it's potential 600 watts, I genuinely think you probably want higher wattage PSU for that specific rig

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DependentUnit4775@reddit

I am seriously amazed you are actually positive voted with a sane statement like that, I usually get downvoted, could be I usually call people dumb for recommending anything above 750w

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Nazgul265@reddit

isn’t the whole point of a higher wattage psu to account for power spikes that may happen?

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invictus81@reddit

Yeah I remember there was this guy awhile back that essentially bought a PSU large enough to power a microwave and his PC lol

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_YeAhx_@reddit

Before ATX 3.0 standards came. PSUs weren't rated to handle power spikes that came with higher end cards. Which is why you can still find lots of threads about how their PSU is weak even after getting a higher rated one.

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theSkareqro@reddit

This is totally wrong.

80% efficiency meaning if it's pulling 100% of the total wattage (or 550w), 80% of it (or 440w) will go to your components and 20% (110w) is lost as heat.

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Obyvvatel@reddit (OP)

Ah ok I didn't know that

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emc_1992@reddit

Because most people don't know what they're talking about.

Congratulations, you looked at benchmarks and used a calculator, that puts you ahead of 95% of the population!

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Floripa95@reddit

Here's what I never understood, why do GPU manufacturers recommend PSUs with way higher wattage than actually needed? Like recommending a 700w PSU for a GPU that uses no more than 220w

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MarkD_127@reddit

Because the GPU is just one component. A system with a 220w GPU would likely be in a system totaling 400-500w.

If it's a bronze, gold, or platinum, then 750w would be ideal if you care about getting the extra efficiency, as that occurs around 50-60% load. Likewise, if you want lower heat and noise.

But a recommendation is just that. A 550w or 650 is still fine for many lower wattage budget systems. Personally, I'd recommend a min 750w, unless it's a really tight budget. But less for the reasons above, as most don't prioritize noise or efficiency in a budget, and more so for future upgrades.

There are a number of 300-450w GPUs out there, a decent C-tier 750W is just $65 now, and there are very few <750w options niw that I would even recommend to begin with.

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Floripa95@reddit

I did get a higher wattage, tier A PSU for the reasons you noted, I'm just saying GPU manufacturers should be more transparent when they make PSU recommendations. They should make it clear that a 550w PSU would technically work just fine, even paired with a high end processor, and THEN recommend 700w for the other factors. Kinda like "minimum specs, recommended specs" for games

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MarkD_127@reddit

Yeah, I guess it's just hard to be clear and thorough in a way that everyone would understand without being too wordy. And a lot of people on the internet in general tend to be really biased one way or the other on everything. I try to explain and give options and reasons why and give someone a good basis to make their own choice.

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jaydizzleforshizzle@reddit

I would argue a slightly overspecced power supply is the best item to do so, for the most part it should be interchangeable, I’ve always gotten 10 years out of my psu, with consistent pc upgrades.

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Rise_Relevant@reddit

And yet of he bought a 500w PSU it would pop in 6 months. What a world we live in.

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Viruses_Are_Alive@reddit

Maybe some of us bought a 1300W psu because we might run 3-4 GPUs one day...

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qtx@reddit

Or my fav one 'I bought a K series CPU because I might want to overclock'.

Narrator: they never overclocked.

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raxiel_@reddit

I always overclock, but I always undervolt too. Sometimes successfully.

Currently running an i5-13600kf with a 9% clock bump that peaks at 91% of it's 181W power limit.
I might have been able to get a bigger OC with more power, but... Raptor lake. (Jokes aside I've always done this to keep it quiet)

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Krylar214@reddit

I bought an i7-4790K for a homelab build. 10 years later, I'm still debating whether to overclock it. Maybe next year...

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Kuski45@reddit

Your CPU is from the age when overclocking was still worthwhile so yeah do it

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sthdown@reddit

Do it! I got an easy 4.5ghz all core over lock.

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we_hate_nazis@reddit

yup, same here. auto OC even

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Krylar214@reddit

I'm starting to detect peer pressure vibes 😅 ...but I'll add it to my to do list

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ialsoagree@reddit

Even if not for performance, going through the process of overclocking and testing stability is going to give you a way better understanding of the power usage and boost features of CPUs in general.

It's knowledge that can carry forward and can help you even just to undervolt a CPU that you don't intend to overclock.

Having OCed my last two CPUs, I'm at a point where I think everyone should know how to properly undervolt a CPU. Virtually every CPU is pulling more volts than it needs out of the box.

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MrSlaw@reddit

Do it! Those chips are OC champs. Should easily be able to do 4.4GHz 24/7, imo.

Mine has been running OC'd and delidded for years now, and she's still going strong

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SjettepetJR@reddit

That whole generation was amazing. I was running an i5-4670k at 4.6GHz up until last year. Just looked it up, and apparently the default boost clockspeeds are only 3.8GHz.

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AnOblongBox@reddit

I had a 4690k at 4.9, it can do 5 but its not totally stable like that. Its now not overclocked and also in a homelab.

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Krylar214@reddit

Exactly why I bought it. I've been very tempted...for the past 10 years, but never really had a need for more performance. Although this one Minecraft container is constantly at 100%...so mayyyybeeee...

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Witchberry31@reddit

Yeah, and ever since the 9th gen Intel all I've been caring about is undervolting.

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Betrayedunicorn@reddit

I had an i7-3770k which is an old pc I’ve given to my partner. I only just got round to overclocking it last week! What? 10 years late??

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JZMoose@reddit

I OC’d mine a few years back, fun chip to learn ton OC on

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Krylar214@reddit

Lol! I had an Athlon 700 that I intended to overclock...but DEFINITELY decided against it after stock kept my room 10 degrees warmer than the rest of the house and no A/C. Wonder if my parents still have it in storage...

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ride_electric_bike@reddit

Now we undervolt lol

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Yauchout@reddit

Meanwhile, here I am having overclocked my last two laptop cpu's 7820 HK and the current one 6900 HX

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Ill_League8044@reddit

Or my all time faves 'I bought a K series CPU because I might want to overclock'.

Narrator: they overclocked and found no use for it.

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Ziazan@reddit

The K actually outperforms the non-K at stock clock, at least in the 14700K. not sure if that stretches across all Ks.

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BLADE_OF_AlUR@reddit

I have a 1600 Watt because I like maximum power efficiency. You only get 96% efficiency when below 50% load

[-]

Viruses_Are_Alive@reddit

You can say that again!

[-]

BLADE_OF_AlUR@reddit

I have a 1600 Watt because I like maximum power efficiency. You only get 96% efficiency when below 50% load

[-]

Phoenix__Wwrong@reddit

I said this 9 years ago. I'm still running one single 980ti from back then.

[-]

sonicbeast623@reddit

I have a 1300w and it started with a 980ti then went sli 980ti, sli 1080ti, single 2080ti, finally 4090. Cpus went 4700k, 8700k, 5800x, 7800x3d.

The only part that's still around from my og build is my evga supernova 1300w g2. And I'm thinking whenever I mess with my pc next I might replace it just because it's at least 10 years old.

[-]

porcomaster@reddit

It happened something similar to me and my brother.

I built a PC for my brother, a few years back, 980ti with a 1200 power supply.

He got luck.

Amazon sent him 2 980ti and 2 1200W power supplies.

His PC is still using the 980ti.

And I have a brand new PC with his old/new PSU.

[-]

Phoenix__Wwrong@reddit

Wait is it bad to keep using old PSU? I'm about to upgrade to 7900 gre, and I was hoping I don't have to change my PSU since it was 1000w g2.

[-]

sonicbeast623@reddit

Not necessarily I know my 1300w g2 had a 10 year warranty. But like with all electronics they degrade over time and the older they get the more chance there is of something going wrong with a cap popping. And psu's are fully capable of killing all the other components when they go so how much risk do you want to take. That being said I have a rtx 4090 and 7800x3d so when I say I'm waiting till my next upgrade to also replace my psu it will be at least a few years.

[-]

Phoenix__Wwrong@reddit

Hmm, well, fuck it, I'm going to yolo it this time lol

[-]

Costed14@reddit

Famous last words haha

[-]

Rhodorn@reddit

Yeah, I was of the same mindset back when I thought SLI was gonna take off. I'm glad I never got around to buying a 2nd card.

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Witchberry31@reddit

I ended up selling my RX 580 and upgraded it instead 😂

[-]

blimux69@reddit

980ti in sli was the goat back than damn that shit bring me back

[-]

Synaps4@reddit

I still have a 1000w psu from running two 6970s in crossfire. I actually replaced it with the same model because I have custom cabling so I'm stuck with way more wattage than I need

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Viruses_Are_Alive@reddit

Yeah, I was going to add a couple but decided to buy an external GPU enclosure instead.

[-]

LeBoulu777@reddit

I run 2 x 3060 GPU for AI with 750w PSU 80 PLUS® Gold

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BLADE_OF_AlUR@reddit

I have a 1600 Watt because I like maximum power efficiency. You only get 96% efficiency when below 50% load

[-]

Nevanada@reddit

My initial (and current) PSU was 750W, but it was a gift, so I'm actually glad to go over what I need. It means the gift lasts longer.

[-]

sdcar1985@reddit

I always bought into the crossfire hype. Always bought 2 mid end cards to get the performance of the flagship for cheaper. 270x were the last ones I had in crossfire.

[-]

13igTyme@reddit

Build a second tower with a 10,000W PSU.

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Viruses_Are_Alive@reddit

Oh good, I always wanted to run my home PC off it's own 100amp breaker.

[-]

Warcraft_Fan@reddit

Yep, OP accidentally roasted 95% of users!

[-]

pckldpr@reddit

lol accidentally?

[-]

HomsarWasRight@reddit

Well OP is assuming he must be misunderstanding. When in fact he’s not.

[-]

MarkD_127@reddit

OP is literally misunderstanding the most important factor...

[-]

HomsarWasRight@reddit

Care to enlighten us?

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MarkD_127@reddit

They suggested 80% efficiency means you'd need load/80% to power your system, thus 512w for 410w. But efficiency has nothing to do with max load.

Efficiency is how well it carries the power from outlet to components. So an 80% efficient 550w will lose 20% of the electricity it pulls as heat in the process of powering up to a 550w power draw.

The way overhead factors into efficiency is that bronze-platinum rated can get like 85-96% efficiency, but the max efficiency occurs around 50-60% load.

So if you cared about more efficiency, which the average consumer really doesn't, then you'd want a 750W system to power a 410w load, in order for the load to fall into the window of greatest power efficiency.

[-]

MarkD_127@reddit

If you're going to downvote someone for taking the time to explain a position, why not take the time to try to explain what you disagreed with. I swear half this thread belongs on incorrectly correcting people.

[-]

iNarr@reddit

I wouldn't quite say that.

It used to be a lot more common to add a second GPU as your system aged, back before Crossfire/SLI were made obsolete. That was quite a few years ago now, though.

Another factor would be efficiency rating. Platinum (even Gold, really) used to be more in the enthusiast bracket. You could get it in the 500w range, but people would spring for 850w just to be safe with GPU upgrades and overclocking.

So I'd say it is less ignorance and more the PC building rules of thumb lagging behind a bit. The market has changed a lot over the last ten years especially.

[-]

dragonblade_94@reddit

There's also a fixation on the PSU efficiency curve; afaik the long-running rule was to aim for 50% usage under load for peak efficiency.

[-]

AlmostButNotQuiteTea@reddit

But like for most people the difference is a few dollars a month in electricity

[-]

hesh582@reddit

Indeed.

But the difference in psu price is similarly quite small, essentially if you want a higher rated model anyway.

[-]

AlmostButNotQuiteTea@reddit

For sure. I wouldn't never recommend buying a no-one company 20$ psu to power your 2k computer.

But the bronze 80+ rating corsair, thermal take, be quiet etc they're all going to be the same and be just fine (bar any manufacturing defects )

[-]

hesh582@reddit

Right. But my point is that if you are getting something at least halfway decent like that, the difference between, say, 650 and 750 is usually like 10 bucks at most. Yes, most people don’t actually need the extra 100w, but even if the efficiency difference is only a couple bucks a year it still isn’t actually more expensive over time.

[-]

AlmostButNotQuiteTea@reddit

I messed up, my comment was supposed to say

I WOULD (not "wouldn't") never

So yeah I completely agree with you is what I'm trying to say 😅

[-]

Atheist-Gods@reddit

A key impact of efficiency is less heat in the PSU. It's not the cost of that wasted electricity but that the difference is entirely extra heat on your PSU components. That 2% difference in power cost is a 20% increase in waste heat. More efficient means that it can run cooler, quieter and likely have a longer lifespan.

[-]

malastare-@reddit

Maybe.

But getting a 1000W PSU so you can save 2% when you're running at 500W often meant that you were less efficient at idle. Whether you saved money was a question of how much time the PC spent at peak load vs at idle. In most cases, you didn't come out ahead and your only benefit was the extra 10W of heat that you saved at peak.

[-]

NavierIsStoked@reddit

Don’t forget noise.

[-]

malastare-@reddit

That long running rule was mostly outdated before SLI/Crossfire was.

The "peak" in efficiency curves is now a couple percentage points. People aim for that peak to save a couple watts at high load, and waste more electricity because it results in lower efficiency at idle.

For at least a decade, the best (most efficient) advice was to get a PSU that was the correct size, rather than aiming for any "tricks" over peaks.

[-]

DependentUnit4775@reddit

Yes those 2% efficiency really justified me buying my 1000W psu

[-]

hesh582@reddit

There’s also the simple fact that the price difference in question is quite small.

A whole lot of sanctimony in this thread over people spending like 15 more just to be safe/futureproof/not waste time using calculators to carefully balance your wattage budget

[-]

Sousanators@reddit

Not 100% true. Power supplies have lifetime ratings which are tied to temperature, and -generally- an 850W supply will generate less heat than a 550W supply when delivering 400W. So, you can think of it like a strong car engine not working that hard to get to the same speed as a weaker engine. At the end of the day, they reach the same speed, but the larger engine won't wear out as fast.

I'll grant there is a marketing/upsell angle to this, but it's not the whole story.

[-]

dylanhotfire@reddit

He did right, but then he flew too close to the sun. I recommend going 30% above your max power draw.

[-]

WillBots@reddit

All the comments here seem to be missing one key thing though, the PSU wattage is total, it's spread over all voltage outputs. If you're going to get something heavy on 12v like a power hungry top of the line GPU and a bunch of extra 12v fans plus some crazy lights, you need to make sure the 12v wattage is sufficient for that, the reason PSUs are often over specced is so that you are sure the specific voltage you want to go heavy on is sufficient, not because the total wattage is being exceeded.

[-]

that1dev@reddit

How does something so wrong, that's so easy to check, have so many upvotes? This is only really the case if you're buying some pretty bottom tier psus. At least it used to be. Might not be true at all these days. It's certainly not true for anyone buying a psu of a decent quality.

[-]

Lost-Experience-5388@reddit

Yea, also applies to OP, who calculated output power as input power. Still got 800 upvote

This might worths a post about this sub, we have to discuss this many false information here...

People spreading misinformation in the last 2 days which I encountered: - "win10 ends in 2025" - "95°C CPU temperature is caused by bad stock fan, buy a new fan" - "a PSU cannot give max output on one powerpin" - "the PSU output is given wattage × 80%"

Answers: - no, only free win10 support ends in 2025 - no, it is the max temperature of CPU, Tjmax, caused by plastic layer left on CPU fan's radiator - no entirely, because smaller voltaged pins tend to have wattage limits, but 12V and bigger cables aren't limited besides max PSU wattage - no, do not calculate PSU output power as for example 850×0.8 because input power×0.8 = 850w which is given on the PSU

In addition OP didnt count MoBo wattage (80w), didnt count fans, didnt count LEDs (of course optional and low consumption) and once again still got 800 upvotes

So yea, definitely worths a post

[-]

MarkD_127@reddit

The biggest key thing they're missing is that "80% efficiency" doesn't mean you only expect to get 80% of the listed power. They're two totally different measurements. Efficiency is in power transfer vs wasted electricity, and if you want the most efficiency, that happens at 50-60% load.

[-]

Antheoss@reddit

Any decent psu is gonna supply most if not all of the advertised wattage on the 12v rail, which is what matters for your cpu and gpu, as well as the other things you've mentioned.

I'm curious what consumer use case requires crazy amounts of 5v or 3.3v power for this to be at all relevant.

[-]

01101110011O1111@reddit

A workstation converted into a nas with a bunch of 10-15k drives in it is the first thing that comes to mind.

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Carnildo@reddit

Hard drives use 12V to drive the motor, because the higher voltage permits smaller, more efficient motors.

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Antheoss@reddit

Hdds use a lot more 12v power (which is what the moving parts use) than 5v. You would need a LOT of hdds to get anywhere close to running out of power on a 500w psu.

And here's the real kicker: weather you get a 450w psu or a 1600w psu, the 5v/3.3v rail is most likely still only gonna supply 100-150w. At least from a quick search of some of the best high end psus I wasn't able to find one supplying more than 130w.

[-]

Lefthandpath_@reddit

You just need to look at the power ratings per rail on any modern good PSU or the Cybenetics reports to see you are incorrect. Every decent psu provides like 99% of it's rating on the 12v rail. Most 1000w psu's do like 999w on 12v, my current PSU is 750w provides 746w on the 12v.

[-]

esanders09@reddit

Thanks for this.

The bluntness of this comment made me laugh.

And you're not wrong.

[-]

MarkD_127@reddit

Except that OP did the math wrong, turns out other people might know what they're talking about, and your highly rated comment here is actually more likely to steer them in the wrong direction.

[-]

Saneless@reddit

Hah, harsh but very true

At least it's ok to overspend and buy more than you need, you're just wasting money

[-]

porcomaster@reddit

He just forgot one step,

His calculations are solid and good enough.

But at this point, looking into the efficiency curve might be a solid choice.

OP, you can look into the PSU you want to buy and buy the one that will have the efficiency curve exactly where your PC will spend.

As the efficiency is not constant, that way you will spend less energy over time.

It will not make that much difference, but well, you already have your calculator at hand go for it :p.

[-]

Ziazan@reddit

The difference is pretty minimal tbh, like £20

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Pliskkenn_D@reddit

But what about your electric bill?

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HunTinatorR@reddit

Its answered under the same comment, but because it can do 850w doesnt mean it always does.

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Pliskkenn_D@reddit

Good to know.

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YourMomsSenpai64@reddit

...Until you factor in the larger power draw, and therefore higher electricity bill

[-]

IggyHitokage@reddit

Power supplies don't draw the maximum wattage at all times.

However, there is an efficiency curve based on usage and lower usage is usually marginally worse than 50% or higher.

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YourMomsSenpai64@reddit

Good point.

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froli@reddit

Yeah that's why I ended up with a 850w even if I came to the same conclusion as OP. I'm most likely never going to for the most powerful GPU so I might get 10 years out of that thing.

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AMv8-1day@reddit

This is the sad fact. A decent midrange PSU, pushing 450-650W used to run you about $55. Now every single rated PSU is $150, and there's almost no difference between the 650W model and the 1,200W model.

[-]

Cloudmaster1511@reddit

Wrong

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UnCommonSense99@reddit

If you buy a mid range 550W PSU, it will spend it's life at 50% load or less, and therefore last a very long time :)

In other shock news, your PC doesn't consume a lot of power, so you only need a simple heat pipe CPU cooler and 2 x 120mm case fans

[-]

Halospite@reddit

I did all the maths. Thought I was fine with a 650W. Eventually the PSU overloaded and short circuited from the power draw.

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Hungry-Platypus-9928@reddit

I used a calculator and still went with a higher wattage PSU just because the price was good and it was fully modular. Said "why not?" and spoiled my build <3

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RecalcitrantBeagle@reddit

It's definitely been a shift in the PSU market, I think - as more and more people buy the overkill PSUs, the average price of the 850W supply drops, but at the cost of the budget 500-ish watt units becoming more expensive - nice if you do high-end builds, but annoying if you're a budget builder. There used to be a ton of 500-600W budget options for around $40 or less that were actually pretty decent, I remember when you could get a $30 CX450 that would handle a 2060 sort of build just fine. But budget PSUs in particular need economies of scale, so as fewer people bought them the cheap stuff dried up.

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Ziazan@reddit

Yeah same, it was only about £20 more for the overkill one.

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Hungry-Platypus-9928@reddit

Oh heck yeah 🤘🤘 and I'm sure you feel just fine about the 20 more you ended up spending on it , right?

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Ziazan@reddit

Yeah it made negligible difference. Only diff is that I know my PSU is enough, both for the current components and for future upgrades.

I went with an "it's enough" one in the prev build and had to upgrade when i last upgraded other components

[-]

BasonPiano@reddit

I'm sure a lot of people don't know what they're talking about, but I got a high wattage PSU for a couple reasons:

Good PSUs last quite a while so I didn't want to have to upgrade my PSU if suddenly the latest GPUs all need an insane amount of power or something.
Power supplies run most efficiently when not near full load.

[-]

osteologation@reddit

regarding number 2. the curves are super flat compared to 20 years ago.

https://outervision.com/power-supply-calculator

i stumbled across this years ago and it humbled me on actual needs. i was seeing everyone buy these crazy 1000w power supplies and it was telling me i needed like 300 watts lol. so i went to a 450w. i just upgraded to an rtx 4070 and i still only "need" like 420w. fortunately(/s) nature made a psu upgrade necessary.

[-]

BasonPiano@reddit

Interesting, thanks for sharing

[-]

Megneous@reddit

I did what OP did and bought an optimally sized PSU. Then, two years later when I upgraded my GPU, I had to buy a whole new PSU because the first PSU didn't even have the plugs to power the new GPU...

Sometimes it's worth it to just go with the bigger, higher quality PSU from the start. Especially if you plan on significant upgrades instead of a whole new build later.

[-]

ziekktx@reddit

I just don't like to have a power supply struggling at 95%. It's a lot easier on a PSU to just have it planned to be maxed at no more than 70% of the maximum rated output.

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osteologation@reddit

which means 5-600w for most everybody. I've always used https://outervision.com/power-supply-calculator. and have been happy.

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NavierIsStoked@reddit

Because a larger power supply running at 50% will be quieter than a power supply half the size running at 100%.

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Sagybagy@reddit

Hey! Some of those words look like something and numbers. You making fun of me? /s

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rhydy@reddit

This is especially true now that we have ATX3.0 PSUs available. Previously there was a need to overspdc a bit, to allow for transient spikes in current draw. Some GPUs are terrible like this. ATX3.0 spec includes generous allowances for this, so yes a 550W PSU with this spec is fine, and is what I run

[-]

CouncilmanRickPrime@reddit

I just wildly overestimate what I need and that's served me well lol

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lanceeee_@reddit

I mean just search "GPU name" recommended watts.

In OPs case, 550w is recommended for a 4060.

But yes, people tend to over recommend PSU wattage.

[-]

RevolutionBetter5391@reddit

Bro 850 is enough for 4090 even. For 4060 and i5, 500 is more than enough

[-]

raxiel_@reddit

The recommended power supply for my system (i5-13600kf, 4070 super, 32gb) is 700W+, and I have a 750w supply. The whole system draw at the wall, including two monitors and other peripherals I've never seen exceed 400W, and is usually around 300W in most games I play.

Power supplies are more efficient the further they are from their limit, and you don't save a huge amount of money going down so it makes sense to have a healthy margin and not worry about it. A good PSU will last a lot longer than the first computer it's installed in.

850W for a 4060 is excessive by any metric though.

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eatingpotatochips@reddit

The most common error on this sub is overestimating PSU wattages and then using irrelevant points like efficiency to justify the higher wattage.

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Historical-Wash-1870@reddit

The most common error is estimating perfectly and buying the correct PSU. Then 3 years later asking "I've just ordered a 4090, is my PSU good enough". If you overestimate then you won't have that issue.

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eatingpotatochips@reddit

If you're buying a 4090 and can't afford a PSU, you can't afford a 4090.

Very few people go from midrange parts to high end parts. It makes no sense to recommend parts for a situation that few people will ever encounter.

But hey, buy that 1600W PSU if you want. It's your money.

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PIO_PretendIOriginal@reddit

Depends, i have a guy who sells me older top end parts cheap (think 3090 for $500)

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Ok_Awareness3860@reddit

But if you think there is even a possibility of you upgrading on that platform at any time in the future there is literally no reason not to get the higher wattage PSU from the start.

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hesh582@reddit

I mean this exact argument applies in the other direction too. If you can’t afford to upgrade from 650 to 7 or 850 you probably shouldn’t be buying a pc at all.

I think it’s funny how many people are treating an overestimate that is costing you like 15 bucks at most an “error”, then turning around and acting like there’s no value whatsoever in having some extra room for future upgrades. Which is it?

[-]

MarkD_127@reddit

However, the difference in a 4060 and most mid-upper range parts is a very significant bump in power draw, and the cost difference between a C-tier 650w Corsair and an A-tier 850W Corsair with twice the warranty, is only $35.

[-]

Teleria86@reddit

Buying a 4090 doesnt necessarily mean you want to waste money. Buying a "good enough" PSU that can barely support your lower tier system, is such a case.

In the last years many people went from midrange parts to high end parts. Just that those high end parts can be a few years old. Looking at the fact that a 6900XT is more powerful than a 7800XT and was much cheaper in germany...

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Historical-Wash-1870@reddit

You made a valid point so let's focus on the midrange like you mentioned

GTX 1070 needed a 500w PSU
RTX 2070 needed a 550w PSU
RTX 3070 needed a 650w PSU
RTX 4070 needed a 650w PSU

The power requirements still increase so my original point is still valid. Next gen uses even more power.

[-]

_fortune@reddit

GTX770 Draws ~180w

GTX970 draws ~170w

GTX1070 draws 150w

RTX2070 draws 175w

RTX3070 draws 220w

RTX4070 draws 200w

This is ignoring the drastic disparity in prices between some of these cards, using them as the single example of "midrange" just because they're XX70s doesn't seem like the best way to do it.

A quality 500-600w PSU will let you comfortably run any midrange setup. It has been that way for 15+ years, it will continue to be that way.

[-]

eatingpotatochips@reddit

If you're pulling numbers from Nvidia's website, everyone knows those are hilariously inflated. 4070s consume close to 200W. The rest of most people's systems will not consume another 200W. It's always better to look at actual benchmarks than the recommended PSU wattages.

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Lefthandpath_@reddit

Well an 850w psu can handle a 4090 + 7800x3d just fine, yet i see people on here building/recommending 1000w or even 1200w+ psu's for these builds all the time. Building in a little headroom is fine, but almost nobody needs a 1000w+ PSU.

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MarkD_127@reddit

A full 7800x3d/4090 build full of fans can easily get up to 85-90% load on an 850W PSU. I'd prefer more headroom than that. Many people do exaggerate the efficiency angle, but some genuinely do care about it, if for no other reason than peace of mind in feeling like they're prolonging the life of their PSU by not nearly maxing the % of power load.

[-]

MarkD_127@reddit

Maybe, but OP just used a misunderstanding of efficiency to justify the lower wattage.

[-]

HigginsBUTTS@reddit

Yup, this is probably the most irritating argument people keep trying to have on here.

The ones shouting efficiency fail to mention that it only affects the psu, using only 50% of your psu doesn't make the pc run any better than someone else's set up with a psu at 70-80%. It just means your psu might live healthy an extra 2 months longer.

So when people come here for help, they're getting misinformation and assume that means their entire PC is going to run so much better because they're only using half of their PSUs output.

[-]

Like_Ottos_Jacket@reddit

Maybe. But it also depends more on your usage. A psu that is working closer to is upper performance output limit will generate more heat and generally be less efficient than a similar one that is not close to that limit.

If heat, and more importantly silence, is important, the higher wattage PSU will generate less heat and not be as loud. If course this supposes build quality, heat sinks, and fans are of similar quality.

For me, higher rpm fans and huge boys levels are deal breakers.

[-]

jello1388@reddit

With 80 plus ratings on damn near everything, and efficiency often only being a few percentage points difference across the entire curve, there is not going to be a noticeable difference in heat output. 485w of heat vs 500w of heat is completely negligible. If you want a higher quality PSU, buy a higher quality PSU from the tier chart, or one that has the features you need. So many people in this thread keep equating size with quality.

[-]

eatingpotatochips@reddit

Nothing beats a fanless PSU in terms of sound, and high wattage fanless units don't exist.

[-]

garbageemail222@reddit

Given the small cost difference, I'd say it's actually a reasonable thing to do for the efficiency, peace of mind, upgradability, and often higher quality components.

[-]

oi_PwnyGOD@reddit

This. I don't want to think about my PSU. And the cost difference is small enough that I can get a quality PSU with "too much headroom" and be ok with it. Then I can do whatever I want with the rest of my PC and not have to worry about it.

[-]

x_ScubaSteve_x@reddit

There are a lot of comments, and I haven’t gone through them all. But, if you haven’t looked at one of these power efficiency charts from cybernetics, they are really good at showing why you may opt for that 850w power supply.

I chose literally the first 850w gold rated power supply from their list. They gave it “standard” scores it looks like, so it’s probably pretty representative of the average.

https://www.cybenetics.com/evaluations/psus/1941/

If you look at its efficiency graph, it’s most efficient between about 160 and 550 watts. Since the cost difference between these PSUs is fairly negligible, I expect the recommendations are to try to take into account what your likely power draw will be to try and keep you in that most efficient zone. I’ll gladly pay an extra $15-20 now for 4-5% more power efficiency over the next 10 years.

Another thing I haven’t seen mentioned yet is noise. My old PC sounded like a jet engine taking off. I was absolutely determined this time to use quality components to try to reduce noise as much as possible. I used the cybernetics site to research PSUs and landed on the FSP Hydro Pro Ti 1000w. This efficiency curve is just absolutely nutty, and they rated it an A++ for noise. It might be my favorite part of my entire new PC build. Hahaha.

https://www.cybenetics.com/evaluations/psus/2101/

[-]

mlastella@reddit

I always overbuy on the PSU in case I upgrade, which is a problem I often run into. I normally go with 750-850 range

[-]

audaciousmonk@reddit

Eh if you’re using onboard software to monitor power consumption, it’s likely not complete.

The best way to measure power consumption is using a power analyzer to measure actual real world draw

[-]

Historical-Wash-1870@reddit

So many people buy a 500w or 600w PSU which is perfect for their PC. Then after a few years they ask questions like, "I've just bought an RTX 4090, is my PSU good enough?"

Buy a good PSU from the start.

[-]

popop143@reddit

Nah, you can just buy a new PSU down the line and sell your old PSU for cheap. Buying a much bigger PSU now just wastes its potential until you upgrade, when you could've saved a bit for the smaller PSU and then bought a bigger (probably better than the big old one) wattage PSU with your upgrade.

[-]

GroyzKT3@reddit

This.

Peak psu efficiency is about 40 to 50% (some peak lower at about 35 but whatever, that ballpark)

So while your system may have a max draw of 500 watts, having an 850 watt psu would mean your average power draw (which isn't likely to be the peak all the time, the average might be 350 watt) will be around 40 to 50% of the psu max wattage and thus peak effeciency.

Also in my eyes, if your peak is 500 and you go for 850, you have lots of headroom, your not pushing the parts to the max all the time etc etc. I would imagine that it is better for the psu components to not run them on full usage all the time, full usage sounds like itd get possibly damaged over longer periods of time.

(if anyone can confirm that last bit that'd be nice, I've never actually had any confirmation on whether 90% average psu usage will kill the psu quicker than say 45% average)

But hey, that's my thoughts and opinion

[-]

_lefthook@reddit

I agree. I used to work in Retail PC Parts sales. I'd always recommend leaving headroom and letting the PSU run at less than 80-90% load lol. Its not that expensive to get a slightly higher wattage than what you need.

[-]

GroyzKT3@reddit

That's true as well, they're not exactly super expensive

[-]

LetThereBeNick@reddit

I just picked up a 1000W quiet fan PSU for $100 even though I know I won’t need that much. Why not?

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GroyzKT3@reddit

Exactly. Why cut close to what you NEED when you could, for not really anything extra, go for something with lots of headroom

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wodanmorningstar@reddit

I like to start with a 800W ps and then I never have to worry about upgrades taking too much more power. More then enough power to run anything I can throw on it. (Unless your mining) But like everyone is saying. Start with a good PS and then you don't have to worry

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Paweron@reddit

Leaving headroom is one thing and makes sense. But noone needs almost triple the max power draw for headroom. 850W for a 300W system us ridiculous

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Antheoss@reddit

Max draw is also a bad number to look at if you're gonna go down this route, altho it's been explained below that efficiency is almost negligible at any % these days with a decent psu.

You will almost NEVER hit max power draw if you're just gaming on your pc, and it will most definitely not run at max power for extended periods of time, so it would be wiser to look at the average power draw in whatever activities you will use the pc for.

But again, "efficient at 50%" is barely relevant in current year.

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GroyzKT3@reddit

Yeah. I like to use effeciency as a starting point because PSUs aren't exactly super expensive and with energy bill prices spending say £50 to get marginally better effeciency will probably pay itself off fairly quickly if you game a lot like I do. My 850 watt psu (80+ plat) was only just over £100 anyway.

I suppose, imo, it's kinda negligible but starting the build with peak effeciency psu allows for upgrades and additions with absolutely no problem and for the price difference, you may as well

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Tai9ch@reddit

Also, a PSU is more efficient at 50% capacity.

If you could decrease the power usage of your PC by 0.5% for $20, and you could repeat up to 100 times for an overall reduction of 40%, how much money would you spend on that power reduction?

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OpulentStone@reddit

The 50% rule is not true.

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EvidenceBasedSwamp@reddit

Also, a PSU is more efficient at 50% capacity.

this used to be a problem in the old days. I do not think it is an issue now that every PSU has 80+ certification.

well, look at the chart itself

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/80_Plus

for the 80 plus it is 80% at all loads from 20% to 100%

For 80+ bronze, there is a 85% vs 82% difference

at most there is 3% difference these days so it's not worth stressing out over it

I'm assuming makers meet the specs.

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rory888@reddit

You are correct. It only matters at extreme high end where you’re drawing a lot of watts… and the higher end psus have better efficiency curve at that too

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rory888@reddit

nah, peak efficiency is actually on the curve per psu. the titanium ones usually have better curves overall.

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Elitefuture@reddit

Who tf recommends an 850w? Most just recommend the msi mag 550w or 650w.

Then, if you have a higher end system, they pick 750w or 850w when budget doesn't matter as much and it's just nice to have that headroom for an upgrade

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Pipic12@reddit

Stupid reddit users who spend way too much on psu, cooler and tell everyone that their gpu pick is terrible and they should buy an amd card (or a 4090).

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MarkD_127@reddit

In some cases, maybe. But the RM850x is only $99 for an A-tier 850W with a 10yr warranty. A good budget pick would be something like the CX650, which is $65 for a C-tier with a 5yr warranty. If you can afford the $35 extra, why wouldn't you?

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Pipic12@reddit

If someone is buying on a limited budget and doesn't need 300 extra watts that power will be utterly redundant. Not everyone plans to upgrade down the line or plug power hungry devices to their pc. I've seen people ask for a budget build and people suggesting to spend $200 on psu & a cooler. Then they always go above the budget and say "just spend a little bit more, that cooler is the best and psu is much better." They might be, but you don't need them in a budget build.

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MarkD_127@reddit

Sure, but some on here are acting like there's never a reason to get more than 750W, which is just as extreme as pretending people are always suggesting more PSU than what is affordable.

I see budget builds all the time where people are suggesting 650/750 and something like Peerless Assassin or Phantom Spirit. Even an RM850 with one of those would o ly be $135 for both, but I'm sure I've ever seen someone try to suggest that in a $500-700 build.

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MarkD_127@reddit

People who aren't thinking in terms of perpetually low-budget systems?

Entry level or not, the 4060 is an extremely low power-draw GPU. The 4070 and 4070 Super are the only 2 GPU's in the top 20 that aren't at least double it's power draw, and 15 of the top 20 GPU's are anywhere from 2.5-4x the power draw of the 4060.

For budget systems that might not ever be upgraded, and not by much, sure a 550W or 650W can be plenty. But how many scenarios is that actually significant savings? If I were to recommend a budget build right now, the cheapest 550W or 650W PSU I'd likely suggest would be the MSI MAG 550 or the Corsair CX 650 for $54.99. But the CX750 is only $10 more.

As for 850w, I'd be more likely to suggest that if someone is already building something that uses a lot more power than the 4060 does, plans to make it upgradable in the future, or if the budget isn't so tight.

When you can get an 850W A-tier PSU with a 10yr warranty for $99, it's hard to suggest anything less when the budget allows for it.

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Elitefuture@reddit

Just like this comment, everyone slowly creeps up 10%-20% more per part since it's not that much more. Then, you keep doing that until your whole system costs $200+ more than expected. We've all done it.

$55 for a psu vs the $99 that you ended up with is a $45 difference. Which is a pretty big difference. When your budget is $400-$700 for the system, $45 could get you more ram, almost a 1tb ssd, or upgrade your cpu.

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MarkD_127@reddit

Right, but I took the time to be thorough and cover many scenarios. I mentioned that for a budget, the 650w would work. Also, the 750W is only $65, which allows more headroom for a little more money.

I also said if the budget allows. I'd never recommend an 850w for someone on a $400-700 budget. But I'd certainly recommend spending 10-20% more for a quality PSU over any other component.

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rory888@reddit

high end productivity cpu plus high end gpu tbh. 7800x3d is pretty abnormal.

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PiotrekDG@reddit

Abnormal how? You mean abnormally power efficient,?

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rory888@reddit

yeppers, abnormally efficient & desired for its performance profile. usually you see lower power lower performance trade offs on a curve that eats more power for less performance... Nope. Low power high performance here.

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_taza_@reddit

Byeah, can confirm

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ubiquitous_apathy@reddit

Sure, but i encountered zero problems running an 11700k+3080 on 750w for a while, and nowhere on the internet did i see recommendations below 850.

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rory888@reddit

that's barely different. Not like you were on a 450w PSU

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Mental_Swimmer_8300@reddit

If you think you're going to pull 500 watt, 850 would be my minimum. I figure what I need and double it.

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Chijima@reddit

I'm running a 1080 system on a 450w psu. Doing fine so far.

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BartShoot@reddit

There were issues with transient power draw where the recommended specs were just a kit right but that was rtx 3000 and mostly on high end models

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Fluid_Speaker6518@reddit

I'm using a 650w psu for a 6800xt don't worry about it

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frodan2348@reddit

Who is saying you need 850w for a 4060 lol

I’ve not heard that, but then again I only really listen to myself nowadays…

550w IS the right wattage for a system like yours. With that said, a 550w unit leaves no room for upgrading, and considering the price scaling between 550w units and 650/750w units, it makes very little sense to buy a 550w unit unless you’re super jammed on your budget.

I would suggest getting a 650w or 750w unit that is high quality and modular so that if the time comes you upgrade your gpu or cpu, you have a decent amount of headroom before you need to think about needing a new psu.

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hesh582@reddit

It’s also worth looking at the broader hardware landscape.

A system with a wattage budget carefully designed around a 4060 isn’t just potentially underpowered for some theoretical future hardware… it’s underpowered right now for most of the rest of the market.

The 4060 has an unusually low power draw given its performance. A whole lot of examples in here basically advocate buying a piece of hardware that should last a decade or more by only considering the power needs of an outlier. It’s telling how many “you only need a 550 and barely that!” examples are based on the 4060 - most other modern cards draw a hell of a lot more

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frodan2348@reddit

Yeah, which is why I said I suggest getting more than a 550w…

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hesh582@reddit

I wasn’t disagreeing with you

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xef234@reddit

Yeah when i built mine like 4 years ago or so i got a 5600xt with a ryzen 5 3600 and a 450w psu and when i posted it to reddit everyone the psu is too low but it works fine :)

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Wooster2@reddit

I use a 650w with a 3080 + 7800X3D. Never had an issue. Play many AAA games and max out GPU %.

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sakaguti1999@reddit

850? that is way more than enough.... My friend using a 4090 is using a 850......

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AbsolutlyN0thin@reddit

I'm on a very power hungry 19-14900k + 3080ti combo. I technically could have gotten away with using my old 750w PSU, but decided to go with brand new 850w to give a little room for upgrade in the future. And if I do end up getting something like a 5080ti or whatever yeah that's when that 850 is actually needed.

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AsianEiji@reddit

the best efficiency of the PSU between the 40-60% PSU usage. Then factor in the % lost due time degrade of performance of the PSU

There is 3 thought process ~25-30% more 650/750w, ~50% more 825w, and ~90-100% more 1000/1100w.

25/30% is the buying what you can use only which happens to have better idle efficiency, zero headroom for switching out parts (in terms of watts)

50% is keeping the usage range under the 75% mark while keeping some efficiency of the lower end and has some headroom for upgrades,

90-100% is all about max efficiency when in use but loses out on idle efficiency this one has a lot of headroom so if you switch to a performance chip and performance GPU of unknown wattage you can do it.

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_brontosaurus_@reddit

My last 850w corsair psu was still working 10 years later when I upgraded. Buy once cry once

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RevolutionaryCarry57@reddit

A good rule of thumb when buying PSUs is to go ~30% more than you need. Which would still put you right around the 550w mark.

That said, the 12100 + 4060 combo is a very low wattage system. In reality you’d want to take the 410w + 30% (550w) and add another ~100w for true future upgradeability. Because you’ll probably be shooting for more of a 250w-275w card on an upgrade.

Even so, that still only puts you at a 650w PSU (which is likely what I’d recommend for your set up).

TL;DR Anyone who tells you to get an 850w PSU for a 12100 + 4060 has no clue what they’re talking about.

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MarkD_127@reddit

TL;DR It entirely depends on the price, what can be afforded, and if the person has expressed interest in further upgradability.

You mention \~100W headroom for upgrades, then mention shooting for a 250-275W upgrade. But the 4060 is by far the lowest current series GPU at only 115W. So \~100W headroom would limit them to a 200W 4070. A 275W upgrade would need an additional 165W and still limit them to a 7900 gre as a max upgrade. Meanwhile, 15 of the current top 20 GPU's are 2.5-4x the power draw of the 4060.

A decent C-tier, 5yr warranty budget 650w PSU is like $50-65. If it fits in the budget, there's no real downside to suggesting an A-tier 850w with a 10yr warranty for $99.

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AdiGoN@reddit

I'm running my 4060 and 12400F system off an old 350W that came from old NAS lol

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Antti5@reddit

I have an RTX 4070 build with Ryzen 5600X, with an SSD and a few USB peripherals. When I stress-tested the build giving maximum load to both CPU and GPU, the maximum draw I saw by the PSU was about 330 watts. In real use it's exceedingly rare to see 300 watts.

I'm using a Seasonic 460-watt fanless that's close to ten years old. I was considering upgrading it when I got the 4070, but it turned out it wasn't the time yet.

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Obyvvatel@reddit (OP)

Honestly I expect power requirements of future cards to go down or at least stay roughly the same, because some of the high end ones are getting to crazy levels to me just as a principle. Like it doesn't sit right with me that a vector math calculator can eat up as much as a 1/5 of an electric kettle.

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rory888@reddit

GPU’s? Depends if you’re in mid and low end vs high end. Top and High end is clearly much higher. Mid range won’t change much.

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dylanhotfire@reddit

The biggest reason for over sizing your PSU is that over time your PSU will degrade. I recommend going about 30% over so you can get a good 7 years out of your PSU. In 7-10 years your PSU will be at about 80-90% output, plus the conversion for inefficiency and you'll start to get close to power limits.

At 512W power I'd go for a 650W minimum.

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OnlyCommentWhenTipsy@reddit

While it's unnecessary to account for PSU efficiency, it's still a good buffer because you don't want the PSU to work at 100% all the time.

It is known that hardware especially GPUs can briefly spike to more than max wattage, and while most PSU can handle spikes, some can't.

Also missing motherboard wattage (\~50W), fans, and peripherals.

Generally people overestimate because there's no risk, while underestimating has risk.

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jrduffman@reddit

I've never heard anyone recommend an 850W for a 4060 like 600W maybe? What does Nvidia recommend? 550W? You forgot to factor in motherboard/chipset power draw but probably overestimated the drives. You of course want some overhead. 500W realistic.

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MarkD_127@reddit

I would never recommend a 600W PSU for a 4060 unless the budget was so tight they were stretching to even get the 4060. A C-tier 750W can be had for $65 and allows headroom for future upgrading.

The 4060 is really a terrible example, or terrible benchmark for PSU needs. It's literally the lowest power draw modern series card and 15 of the top 20 GPU use 2.5-4x the power it does. If you are buying a 4060 and ever plan to upgrade the GPU, it's just foolish to consider its power needs in selecting a PSU.

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Historical-Wash-1870@reddit

A good PSU can last up to 10 years. Some people still have the same PSU they bought for their GTX 1060. Nvidia recommended a 400w PSU for the GTX 1060. People to a 4060 would need to upgrade the PSU if they listened to the 400w recommendation.

People need to allow for future upgrades. I've upgraded my GPU 3 times since I bought my 700w PSU in 2019. If I had listened to the manufactures recommendation or the people on Reddit, I would have needed to replace my PSU last year.

The RTX 5060 comes out next year and the RTX 6060 two years later. Then the RTX 7060 two years after that.

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BlakeMW@reddit

Heh I have the same PSU I bought for my GTX 970, and upgraded to the RTX 4060, which actually draws less power.

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jtm33@reddit

I bought my current PSU about 13 years ago with a GTX 580. Back in the day when you could get a top end GPU for $450 AUD. 4 graphics card changes since then and still using it with a 3080.

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_fortune@reddit

All of my computers have been "midrange". I bought a 550w PSU in 2008 when I built my PC with a Phenom II x3 and HD4870, I used that same PSU for my next build with a 2500k and GTX460, upgraded to a GTX660 and then GTX1060, and I just built a new PC with a 5700X3D and 6700XT and yep - another 550W PSU.

My 5700X3D consumes about the same power as my 3 core Phenom from 2008. My 6700XT only consumes ~50w more than my HD4870 from 2008.

Outside of specific examples, midrange power consumption largely hasn't changed in the last two decades. There is no reason to think that's going to change in the next couple of years.

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jrduffman@reddit

Sure but on the flip side some people never upgrade. When they need more power in 3-5 years they just sell their existing system whole or move it on to a family member and build/buy a whole new system. Different priorities for different people.

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eatingpotatochips@reddit

I've never heard anyone recommend an 850W for a 4060 like 600W maybe

There's people in this thread who are recommending an 850W. Here's a nonsensical one.

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PiotrekDG@reddit

Still don't see 4060 mentioned.

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eatingpotatochips@reddit

Still don't see 4060 mentioned.

...did you not read the body of the post?

That is 310W worst case scenario. (RTX 4060, Intel i5 12400)

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PiotrekDG@reddit

Yeah, looks like I skimmed too fast apparently.

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PiotrekDG@reddit

Only when paired with 14th gen Intel lol

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nybreath@reddit

i dont know who suggested you a 850W psu, i also made a search on reddit and really ppl go from 550 to 750, the suggested psu from nvidia is actually even lower
making the 80% efficiency step isnt a bad idea, cause you dont want your psu to work at max load all the times
i would still buy a 650w to 750w according to budget, cause you are basically going to keep it forever this way, if you are one of those that prefer to change it and not keep an old psu, get a 550w, you will be totally fine

third

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Kuski45@reddit

A good 650w unit will be plenty for that setup

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MarkD_127@reddit

The efficiency of the PSU doesn't dictate its max power. The notion that "80% efficiency means your power draw should be 80% of the max power" is entirely incorrect. If that were the case, you'd just call a 1000w PSU with 80% efficiency an 800W PSU.

The efficiency rating has to do with how well it delivers the power from the outlet to the components, and how much is wasted. And that max level of efficiency usually occurs at 40-60% load. So if you have a 750W bronze label PSU, in order to get 85% efficiency, you'd want a 750W PSU for a \~450W load.

That said, this is only regarding maximizing efficiency, which isn't necessary. You could certainly use a 650W or perhaps even a 550W with a rounded up draw of 410W. Some people might recommend shooting higher because they take it too seriously and exaggerate the need. But I think most are considering future proofing.

The latter would especially be a concern in your scenario, as you're on LG1700 with an exceptionally low drawing GPU. If you were to make this setup last as long as possible, you might eventually want to upgrade that to a 14900k and a 4080 or similar, which could jump your power draw to well over 600W.

If you have no intention of ever upgrading this PC's GPU, then you're right, 750-850W is way more than necessary.

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Jackmoved@reddit

Techpowerup says a default 4060 is 115w draw, so 300w is recommended. A psu that small would be from a dell oem system or something. People might "recommend" a 850w because they come with the 600w cable [Atx 3.0 psus] required to run that card without the 8pin adapters. If you can find a 3rd party card that uses a 6 or 8 pin, then you can use that.

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Huntrawrd@reddit

Because the difference in price between an 850W and a 550W is a drop in the bucket compared to how much you're spending on the whole build. Electronics can also periodically draw MUCH more than what they are supposed to, GPUs are especially prone to this.

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HeroDanny@reddit

I just bought a 1k watt power supply a few years ago and figured that would be the last power supply I'd need to buy.

8 years later so far so true... I'm planning a big PC upgrade and only the case and powersupply are remaining the same.

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J1mj0hns0n@reddit

If you are playing on getting a 5090 which according to leakers - will get 600w - which is a helluva lot, a normal pc wouldn't really go above 750w with anything less than a 4080 inside. As you've stated it's usually GPU watts + CPU watts + ram watts + mb watts + SSD watts with everything else under the CPU generally being under 100 watts

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HigginsBUTTS@reddit

Because people like to mention the "PSU efficiency curve" which became obsolete years ago and also has nothing to do with the rest of the PC, just the PSU.

You need to account for TGP and TDP on top of your base wattage requirements for your pc and about 50w for peripherals, you don't need to get double what your pc uses. 80% usage is perfectly fine and your PSU will still be working 10 years later so long as you keep dust build up to a minimum.

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moguy1973@reddit

For the better brands of PSUs the price difference between a 550w and a 750w isn't that much and you might as well future proof it. In a year a 4060/12400 might not be enough to run the next big game you want to play.

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Creative_Mixture5050@reddit

People recommend 850w for future proofing, not because you need it right now, its just in case you will upgrade to a GPU wich will consume a lot more eg. 400-600w

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Mundane-Expert7794@reddit

Many reasons. First thing is future proofing. You might your house and you would be stuck. Second thing is that gpus have spikes that could trip a psu. Therefore you need more power than what you calculated. Now, people are also getting crazy and buying 1200w which is absolutely silly.

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Untinted@reddit

It might be bullshit, or it might be real, but there can be instantaneous burst/demand of power that spikes quite high but only lasts a fraction of a second, and if the burst isn't as high as the PC wanted, it could freeze or power off.

Don't know how realistic it is or how high the burst would be above 100%.

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Lermaidman8@reddit

Who is recommending an 850 watt psu for a 4060

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Gouca@reddit

You're calculating efficiency incorrectly as stated earlier. You're also assuming efficiency to be a constant, which it is not. PSU efficiency is highest at \~60% load (ie. a 1000W PSU with component draw at 600W would draw 666W from the socket).

Anandtech has a great article about this: https://www.anandtech.com/show/2624/debunking-power-supply-myths

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Dan8720@reddit

4060 has very low power draw you def don't need 850watt.

Your calcs are correct 550 would work. A little more may make sense if you want to upgrade in the future or it's worth noting PSU are not as efficient near their upper limit. If you can get a 600 or 650 for not much more. It might save a little electricity in the long run too. Going a little overboard never hurt anyone but don't overspend.

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CommunistRingworld@reddit

The only reason I overshot my PSU wattage was I figured future cards are getting more and more power bloated so I wanted to leave headroom.

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paul232@reddit

I will say that if you are indeed planning to upgrade, or even the potential to upgrade, it may make sense to get a beefier PSU. However, the PSU suggestions are way overblown as you say

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Fun-Psychology4806@reddit

Every PSU I have bought has been more than I needed, but it's never been a significant cost. I'd rather have too much than too little, and rather not have to upgrade the PSU in a couple of years when GPUs take more power.

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markianw999@reddit

I think iv been on my over speced 750 and 850 for or 8 or 9 years now.... go sea sonic goo.

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q-milk@reddit

The rated power is the output, so no need for the x0.8 multiplier.

You do need to loook at the specification for the power supply as the limit for 12V, 5V, -5V and -12V all have to be kept. If you need 550W on the 12V, and your 800W PS only supply 500W at 12V is is not enough.

Also, the difference between bronze, silver and gold in PS is mostly BS, and has nothing to do with quality. Find a good quality PS with customer support.

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goodnames679@reddit

850 is way overblown, but buying a slightly overblown PSU is not the worst move these days. It’s only $10-20 more, will save you a tiny bit on electric bills making it more or less a net neutral in cost, and has two perks:

1) You may end up slotting a higher draw CPU or GPU into your system down the line. Not having to buy a whole new PSU when you do so can save you a lot of money

2) A PSU’s max load often slowly degrades over time. By slightly overbuying, you reduce the odds that your PSU eventually becomes incapable of running your hardware.

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epical2019@reddit

I bought my PSU first because it was in a great sale and got an 850w. Still don't need it since I'm getting a 7900xt soon but it's nice to have the extra to spare in case I get more power demanding parts at a later stage.

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videoismylife@reddit

If you enter your components in the Builder at pcpartpicker.com it'll give you an approximate wattage in the top right corner. Multiply that by 1.5 - 2 and you're good to go.

You should give yourself that much leeway because:

you want to be at about 50-60% PSU utilization for peak efficiency and longevity
TDP (Total Design Power) for components are estimates, not absolute; and it's really a term that describes heat dissipation not electric power.
"TDP" is defined very differently by AMD, Nvidia and Intel in their various products, making it less useful for power calculations.
TDP isn't the maximum amount of power that can be consumed under load, which is called "rated power" and can be 25% or more higher than the TDP.

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AngrySayian@reddit

because most PSUs in the 550 or lower range are D tier rated on the cultist tier list, i.e., they are only good for builds that don't have a dedicated GPU

you'll want to get at minimum a 650W PSU to cover your bases and not have to worry about that

unfortunately, a lot of C tier rated PSUs in that range cost about the same as a 750W B rated one, or even some 850W A tier rated ones

ex: Corsair CX650M (2021) 650 W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-modular ATX Power Supply (CP-9020221-NA) - PCPartPicker

vs

Gigabyte UD750GM 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (GP-UD750GM) - PCPartPicker

the first link is a C tier rated PSU

the second is a B tier rated PSU

now granted I am using US pricing, so things may be different in your country, but they are the same price

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PatternActual7535@reddit

Yep. It is 100% overblown

However, a good rule of thumb is always to have a bit of headroom to account for things like sudden power spikes

A PSU that also is not being pushed near max load will last longer (and run alot cooler as well)

But there isn't a need to go overkill. Just get a solid, reliable PSU

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jamesgfilms@reddit

I purposely got a higher wattage PSU as figured a PSU running at 60-65% of its maximum wattage would probably last longer than a lower wattage running at 90-95% of its max output. I didn't base it on any facts mind you, plus the cost difference was negligible at the time between a 650w and 850w supply.

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Thobio@reddit

Because this sub told me that powerdraw from your GPU can spike higher, and you don't want to run your PSU on a constant 90% usage, but aim more for 50-70% for longevity.

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abrasiveteapot@reddit

Most modern gpus are using a fair bit more than your 4060. 100-200w more

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-gpus,4380.html

Your 4060 is second lowest out of the 24 cards listed

A 650 or 750 is justified based on your own calcs, more than that, not fir mozt, but then people on this sub are going to be enthusiasts and thus by definition more likelyto build something with a big power draw

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Cloudmaster1511@reddit

Because the system will SPIKE way higher numbers on several occasions

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onebit@reddit

A over specced psu can make less fan noise.

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Mirrormn@reddit

There's a lot of reasons.

The efficiency of a PSU varies with its output, and generally, most PSUs are most efficient at around 50% of their max wattage. So theoretically, having a PSU with a max rating that is double what you intend to run on it will give you the best power efficiency. (In practice, this effect is likely to be very small, though, possibly negligible).
The way a PSU gets a higher wattage rating is primarily through better components and cooling. So an "overbuilt" PSU will likely be higher quality.
Closely related, running a PSU at or near its maximum rating is much more likely to cause it to degrade and struggle over time. You would expect a PSU running well below maximum capacity to be more reliable and last many more years.
The wattage that can be delivered by a PSU is not all interchangeable. PSUs have different power rails that drive different voltages. Your major components, the CPU and GPU, will be running off the 12V rail, but that will not necessarily be rated to deliver the full wattage of the PSU. (You don't necessarily have to over-spec the whole PSU to deal with this problem, though; you can just check the specifications of its rails and make sure it can deliver enough on 12V)
Transient spikes. Less of an issue with the current generation of video cards, but this was a huge thing with the 3090 and 3090 Ti. Basically, it's possible for a component to draw a lot more than its rated maximum power draw for a very short amount of time. People were seeing the 3090 Ti, a card with a 450W TDP, spike above 650W. As far as I know, this isn't really a *common* thing to happen, it was mainly just an issue with the 3090 specifically, but I think it definitely gave people a subconscious bias towards recommending really over-specced power supplies.
Overclocking. You can't overclock your components if you have no headroom to give them additional power.
Future-proofing. You say "I add 100W for wildcard future upgrades", and that may seem like enough of a buffer for now, but people tend to have much more money over time, and PC components tend to use much more power over time. If, in 4 years, you're looking at a new build with an RTX 6080 that runs on 450W of power, you'd probably need to toss a 550W PSU, and would probably be able to keep an 850W PSU.
In the end, the price difference just isn't that great. A high quality 550W PSU is $60, while a high quality 850W PSU is $90. That $30 is small enough that many people would just as soon buy that extra 300W of capacity even when they don't need it.

That all being said, you can still go with a 550W PSU for your build. None of these points directly contradict your math. You're right - the build *will* work with a smaller PSU than many people recommend. Just explaining why this tends to happen.

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Psyko_sissy23@reddit

A lot of people like to have a lot of headroom if they are thinking about upgrading to bigger cards and the like.

I literally googled my my gpu plus psu requirements. It said 650w to 850w.

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AMv8-1day@reddit

Because they're morons that buy into self-serving lies that the very industry that benefits from them over buying, tells them.

The fact is, 90% of gamers with anything short of a 4090, would be perfectly safe using a well designed and reviewed 650W PSU. But people will dream up absolutely any outlier case they can, to justify buying 1,000W PSUs for their stock clocked i7/R7 + 4070.

GPU maker PSU wattage estimates are meant to be overly conservative because they are accounting for cheap OEM/ODM crap PSUs. Usually carried over or kept in service from one build to the next, for 7+ years at a stint. PSUs have a long life, but are still wearable items. They lose efficiency and peak performance over time. Dropping 10+% before most people retire them.

PSUs are the unsexiest part of a build list and GPU makers know this.

They know that if it comes between shelling out for that $150 new PSU, and putting that toward a higher spec GPU, sticking with the ancient Super Flower PSU from the Alienware they had in High School, that PSU needs to be accounted for.

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PersnickityPenguin@reddit

You actually need at least an 1800 watt power supply. Because, why not?!

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metalmankam@reddit

Well the power calculators estimated 742w for my parts, plus I overclock and I was running a 750. The GPU I have can also be prone to spikes. So I went looking for a 1000w and it just so happened last black Friday a 1200w Corsair was the same price as the 1000 so I now use a 1200w with an i7 12700kf and a radeon 6950xt

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REALISTone1988@reddit

Forgetting motherboard

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alvarkresh@reddit

GPU manufacturers tend to give more realistic recommendations. I suspect most RTX 4060 sellers recommend between a 500 to 650W PSU to account for the kinds of things you inventoried in the power consumption worst case scenario.

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aithosrds@reddit

Because you aren’t accounting for all the variables.

First of all, consistent draw and spike draw isn’t the same thing and there are also limits to how much power a device is able to draw from a single “rail” (real or virtual) to consider. Just because those devices draw X doesn’t mean that the total you come up with is the hard cap of what they might demand.

Second, you’re missing the part about how PSUs operate when it comes to the percentage of their capability you’re utilizing. In terms of both reliability and efficiency you want to run a PSU ideally between 40-60% of its total capability.

So if you have a 1000w PSU that means you want your average draw to be between 400-600w.

Also, PSUs last a LONG time, if you buy a good one they can easily last 10+ years… so many people (myself included) would rather buy a 1000w PSU and know without a doubt I’ll be able to use that in my next 2-3 computers than to barely meet the requirements and have to replace it.

Buying a less expensive PSU for every build ends up costing more than a single good one, so why would I ever buy the bare minimum?

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LunaticOnMeth@reddit

I had to scroll way too far to find someone mention power spikes.

The PSU absolutely needs to have enough capacity to account for these "transient spikes" or it will simply shut off during load due to OPP.

For example, a 4080S is rated at 320W but can easily spike over 370W. And this value can vary between different aftermarket models.

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not_as_smart@reddit

I typically use this - https://outervision.com/power-supply-calculator reasonable estimates.

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AHrubik@reddit

It's not quite that simple but in your case you're not. You sometimes need to pay attention to amps on each rail. It's generally only important for high end GPUs and high end CPUs. The 4060 and 12400 are unlikely to encounter an issue there.

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JonohG47@reddit

A 500W power supply is more than enough for a system with a 4060 in it. And by 500W, I mean one of those crappy cheap Thermaltake Smart PSU’s that’s only 80 Plus White and that barely does 400W on the 12V rail most of your system is actually powered by.

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Ecstatic_Job_3467@reddit

Because overclocking. Also, the PS is a pain in the ass to change if you want a major GPU upgrade later.

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Liesthroughisteeth@reddit

Current spikes

Heat generated when running anywhere near max meaning more fan noise.

Better current conditioning and efficiency in the middle range.

If a PSU is going to fail, it's more likely when being pushed.

Insurance. Buy a good quality PSU with extra headroom and you will run much less risk of having to rebuy that 800.00 GPU or 300.00 motherboard.

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Appropriate_Earth665@reddit

Rule of thumb I've always went by is to have atleast 20% more power then needed.

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jlt6666@reddit

Old shitty brands used to be pretty liberal with their specs (using peak instead of sustained or whatnot). Not sure about today But if you buy a reputable brand you don't have to worry about bullshit numbers.

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illuxion@reddit

There's also a sweet spot where the PSU is most efficient as well as where it can expel enough heat while still being quiet. For me personally I wanted a spot where it was absolutely silent during normal use, and still quiet while gaming. Overclocking a 13900k and 4090? That's a paddlin', and more juice than you would expect but 1000w keeps them both happy despite heating the room a bit too much.

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TwiNN53@reddit

PSU's are cheap enough to just go overboard and possibly plan for future upgrades.

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Nitronium777@reddit

Psus are most efficient at about 50-60% load, so some people want to keep it there. But they are designed to last a while even at high loads. 550 is probably enough for you. I run 2060 and ryzen 3700x with 5 hard drives and haven't ever been close to 550w. 850 is unnecessary unless your gpu draws 400 watts on its own.

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00Cubic@reddit

wait, since when are people recommending an 850w for a 4060 and 12400???

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kikomir@reddit

My work PC is a Dell with a Xeon CPU and a dedicated AMD Radeon Pro GPU and it has a PSU of a whopping......... 280W.

Most PSU estimations are a load of horsecrap and are overkill.

Having said that, when it comes to high end hardware, you do actually need more powerful PSUs than advertised. There is a phenomenon where higher end GPUs have huge power draw spikes for short bursts even though their sustained draw over time isn't that big. If the PSU can't handle the short bursts, you get some weird things like stutters and dropped frames.

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xilvar@reddit

You’re correct, however keep in mind a couple things.

For high power components they often run off of 12v rails in the power supply. The specific rails they run off of need to be able to reliably and continuously deliver the power that GPU needs at peak consumption. Thus to be precise about it you need to compare the 12v rail capability to the GPU.

The other thing to bear in mind is that the crappier the PSU brand the more likely they’re actually overstating the total power rating of the PSU or the rating of the rails or speccing components that are heavily stressed operating that way.

Thus some people find that slightly over speccing the PSU itself and sticking to at least second tier brands is how they prefer to hedge risk and cost.

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Middle-Effort7495@reddit

People run 4060 in SFF builds with a 250W HDPLEX.

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SmallFeetBigPenis@reddit

Now find me a sfx psu that’s smaller than 750W for my nas build.

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E3FxGaming@reddit

EVGA SuperNOVA GM? SFX PSU which has a 550 and 650 Watt version and it's in B-tier on the Occultist PSU tier list.

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fearsyth@reddit

PSUs have separate rails. It used to be an issue that PSUs could only deliver about 50-60% of their rated wattage on the 12v rail. So if you needed 250w of 12v power, you needed a 500w PSU to supply that.

Modern PSUs can support a lot higher 12v power (80-90% of rated power). You still need to account for that, but people tend to still go by the old requirements.

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technosnayle@reddit

People on this sub LOVE to tell you need twice the wattage you actually need 😂😂

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Ultrabananna@reddit

My old little 1000w psu lasted me through 3 builds. I'm still using it...

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thedarklord187@reddit

we buy them 750+ so we never have to buy them again in the future. That way doesnt matter what graphics cart or cpu comes along we still dont have to buy a power supply becuase we already have one that can handle whatever may come our way. Also overclocking most of us do that and it draws more power than stock ratings.

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zephyrinthesky28@reddit

Most B-tier and above PSUs on the cultist list are for higher wattages, and people rightfully aren't cheaping out on a PSU.

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corzajay@reddit

Most people will also account for future upgrades, a decent PSU can last 10+ years. Accounting for future upgrades will save buying a new PSU in a few years, also a bit of overheads means your PSU runs in its optimum efficiency range.

To counter myself, a lot of people also go way overboard.

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Byte_Ryder23@reddit

I dunno. I just go off what gpu manufacturer says after my first build where gpu min was 850 according to their documentation. I did some mathing and thought 750 was sufficient. Evene pcpartspicker said it would be enough. Got a platinum efficiency psu. Problem was it wouldn't even post with the 750. Tried two different 750s. Said fuck it and got 1k just in case I upgrade the gpu again.

Bottom line you may be fine shorting the wattage depending on the gpu. It didn't work out for me. 4080 super.

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HumbleCucumber@reddit

I have a 12700k and a 3080 running on a 650 watt for years with no issue. 😁

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aline-tech@reddit

I've always run to 1,000w in the past, and for my AM5 build I'm going to 1200w.

You want to account for things like m.2 drives (4x), SSDs (6x), USB devices (which I have a lot of).. especially USB-C power delivery ports that's another 30-60w for charging or powering devices while using them (like VR headsets).. fans and cooling (which you havent accounted for).. mobo draw (which you also left out).. and more.

I always prefer to have enough headroom on top of that to ensure I'm never maxing out near that 80% mark and have room for another 200w of upgrades.

It just makes sense to go higher now for cheaper so you dont have to buy another PSU when you inevitably max it out.

I remember one of my first PCs, I ended up having to run 2 PSU's because I had bought one, couldnt afford to upgrade but had maxed it out - so I had bought an adapter to power two at once.

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Bottled_Void@reddit

Why are you listening to random people? Go ask the people that make the hardware. Asus for instance will tell you that a 4060 coupled with an i5 will come with a recommendation of 550W.

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OpulentStone@reddit

You're completely correct (besides on the efficiency thing, which others have pointed out already).

Specifically for the RTX 3000 series though, and I don't know about the 4000 series: they sometimes have very high power spikes and that warrants higher wattage PSUs.

I ran 3060 Ti and a Ryzen 7 3700X with 32GB RAM and a few SSDs on a 550W Seasonic nonmodular PSU, never had a single issue. Only reason I swapped the PSU is because I had a semi-passive one lying around.

But, I also have an R9 5950X and RTX 3090 system which runs a 1000W PSU because the 3090 occasionally has that power spike and you want to avoid the system shutting off or becoming unstable due to insufficient power delivery.

Remember also, that some PSUs - usually cheap crappy ones - are advertised showing their peak power whereas others are rated by their continuous power. For example a Seasonic PSU that's advertised at 1000W means it can do 1000W sustained over a long period of time. Some crappy CIT unit rated at 750W can probably only handle that for a moment and is actually more like a 500W PSU. This means that nVidia and AMD adjust the recommended PSU wattage for their products to account for the crappy PSUs some people might buy if they don't know any better (not their fault of course)

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Avalanche-777@reddit

I prefer to have more Watts than what i need, that way, any spikes won't cap the PSU and it will allow for upgrades to the GPU and CPU and stuff.

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Witchberry31@reddit

Wait a minute, who tf recommends 850W for a frigging 4060 build? I am gonna safely bet those who do are either a crooked salesman or someone who doesn't have a single idea about computers.

Even 650W is enough for older GPUs like RX 580/90, Vega 56, GTX 980 Ti, etc that are obviously more power-hungry.

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meteorprime@reddit

People are fucking stupid.

Didn’t you notice how many of them had trouble understanding it was a good idea to take the vaccine?

My computer uses a 850watts EVGA T2 Titanium psu

3080Ti 7800X3D Qx140 RGB fans x7 Qx120 RGB fans x3 AIO with screen RGB light strips x4 RGB tiles x2 sets 2 hard drives 2 SSD hard drives 2 NVMe drives 2x glowing sticks of ram RGB keyboard RGB mousepad RGB mouse And some Analog headphones that also draws power.

I have like over 1000 addressable LEDs and I’m not exaggerating

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jellowiggler-@reddit

Keep in mind that you want to be running in your efficiency band between 40-70% of you calculation.

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pmerritt10@reddit

no one I know would recommend 850w for a 4060

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anonx8491@reddit

Also consider most PSUs run optimally at 50% load, its actually around 45-65%

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Claymoresmash@reddit

Wattage degrades over time, though. At least it used to. PSUs are getting a lot better.

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laylowleslie@reddit

The corsair 750e laughing at my 7900xtx OC'd with a 7800x3d with 8 fans maxxed out.. 3 satas, 1 m.2 one internal, and external hdd..

Poor psu is clutching on for dear life.

Thank you for bringing this up, I've been shit on, pissed on and laughed and mocked for discussing this and claiming I don't need a 1200w PSU.

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twistymctwist@reddit

I generally use wattage calculator and get the approximation and round up then double it for various purposes. So in your case I would end up with something like a 600w-650w gold/plat PSU. You aren't far from that so good job 👍

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tunnel-visionary@reddit

In reality you'll find a good 550W PSU at a certain price point and then you find another good that's 750W that's literally the same price and you'll be like, "sure why not."

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JRingo1369@reddit

Calculate what you need then add about 30% works just fine for me.

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Lendari@reddit

There are a lot of reasons.

The recent generations of hardware are focusing more on power efficiency. Especially on the mid to low end parts. Some advice you're getting is dated or entended for high end enthusiast build specs.
The current gen RTX 4090 is notorious for overdrawing PSUs and melting cables. Google it and you will find some graphic evidence of worst cases.
Better safe than sorry. The price difference between a 650W and a 800W is not that much. It's worth it unless an extra 50 bucks is a deal breaker for you.

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mfboomer@reddit

why are you planning to buy an HDD in the year 2024? (not a rhetorical question, I’m genuinely curious)

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webstalker61@reddit

Maybe they don't have a NAS and want to store a ton of media or large files that aren't frequently accessed on a 20TB HDD for cheap.

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Dependent-Maize4430@reddit

He may not be buying it, I’ve found a few 1tb HDDs in old DirecTV boxes, I use them to store a bunch of older games.

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dedsmiley@reddit

I have run an overclocked Xeon X5675 (X58 chipset) and 2x GTX 690’s in quad SLI and pulled around 420w from the wall as measured by a Kilawatt.

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husky_hawk@reddit

Because you have to “recommend” for the lowest common denominator.

If you overclocked both your CPU and GPU and decided to buy a shit bronze rated PSU, well, then you probably need an 850W to guarantee stability.

If no overclocking and you buy gold then yeah your calc is correct.

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Enough_Standard921@reddit

Use a power supply calculator. Here’s one. Absolutely no need for guesswork:

https://outervision.com/power-supply-calculator

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ylbirts@reddit

i’d say spend the money now to avoid having to upgrade another part when you want to upgrade further, i never want to be within 100W of what my psu is rated for

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breadatolivegarden@reddit

I think, at least to some extent, it's that it's hard to find low-wattage power supplies with all of the modern features.

I'm not even sure they make modular PSUs under 650 watts, or if there is one then probably not from a reputable brand. And the difference between a 650 and 850 watt fully modular is like 10-20 bucks so why not.

850 is generally the maximum necessary power, unless you're running a REALLY high end rig (i.e. 14900k with a 4090, 64gb of 7200 ddr5 ram, and 2 high end NVNe drives just to name something off the top of my head). This would probably still be a little under 850 but you would probably want a 1000 just for stability's sake.

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mikaeltarquin@reddit

Transient spikes! I had an EVGA 800W PSU that would shut down whenever my 3080 Ti hit it too hard. My case may be an exception, just a random faulty PSU, but it's true that GPU transients go way over their wattage ratings.

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RaxisPhasmatis@reddit

They're overblown because even the best psu makers change components in psus due to parts available, they make one wrong choice and you have a psu that runs like shit ripple and voltage drop wise.

Additionally some makers over-rate the specs, then on top of that some parts report usage wrong

For example my 6800xt reports 255w it's actually doing 320w with spikes to 484w

And then psus ability to handle loads drops with age, heat and duration of heavy load over time.

If you get one or more of these problems at once it's bad, psu issues can look like dying ram, dying drives, dying motherboard etc.

It's about headroom, like coolers, the more headroom the better, the more wattage capacity the better(to a point don't go broke for it)

My system should be able to run on a 750w quality psu without issues while overclocked.

I've killed 3 supposed top tier 750w psus.

I'm now running a 1000w without issues and have been for awhile.

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saltlyspringnuts@reddit

I ended up going for a 4090 so had to opt for the 7000w psu for full power draw

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Awesomevindicator@reddit

partly it depends on the quality of the power supply, but 850w is excessive.

its the spikes that can cause issues if your power supply is borderline. but generally, the extra 100w you added is plenty.

generally power consumption has gone down a fair bit over recent years, but people tend to think they need way more than they do.

sure the highest end parts might need a 1200w PSU, but generally for us mid range mortals, its best to just add it up yourself like you did, tack on an extra few watts as a buffer, and buy a quality PSU that meets your needs.

but as will be mentioned a million times already no doubt... make sure you buy a good brand of psu from a good manufacturer. noone wants to see a bricked rig with ruined components just because someone decided to save $20 oon their powersupply and buy a cheap unknown brand.

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Sexy_Offender@reddit

I bought a 850 about 15 years ago. Still using it today. It's a household appliance at this point.

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Gotrek5@reddit

I was running an over locked 3090 with a massively over locked i9-10900k on a 600w bronze psu and it only crashed once in a while. But I was on that cusp.

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dangled@reddit

One thing to consider is that the maximum PSU efficiency is when it is loaded to \~50%. So, a little over-provisioning for the PSU is always a good idea.

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SloppyCandy@reddit

They are way overblown. The GPU manufactures attempt to make very generous estimates on the other system components (that they cant control).

Some of it come from Back In The Day when you had people pumping 250W+ through their CPU, 4 high RPM HDD, a DVD drive or two, 10+ case fans, and some Cold Cathode PC lighting. In that case, yeah, maybe it makes sense to budget 400W+ for the rest of the system.

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raydialseeker@reddit

Wdym back in the day for 250w CPUs and 10 fans ? That's a now thing.

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DoubleRoastbeef@reddit

One reason why getting a PSU with high wattage limits is beneficial is because PSUs will provide the necessary power needed, so if you ever upgrade your parts, your PSU can handle the load.

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gaqua@reddit

The difference in price between a 650 and a 750 for example is fairly small, so a lot of people just go up a bit for headroom. Also, PSU outputs are most efficient between 20-80% of their rated output capacity, so if your system is going to be ~500W at load, then buying a 550W would be slightly less efficient (and the fan would be moving faster) than buying a 650W model.

Some people take that to extremes. A 14900K and a 4090 may be totally workable on a 750W or 850W PSU, but buying a 1000W might be an extra $25 or something and why not get the headroom if you’re already spending that kinda scratch.

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Traditional_Animal65@reddit

Are those the same values you get if you put the parts in build pc site or are 5he numbers in the site unreliable?

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Arowhite@reddit

I don't know about the 4000 series but I recall that the 3000 series had spike hundred(s) of watts above max plateau power usage. I think this is always somewhat true with PC hardware so people tend to take a bit more than necessary, which is what you did. Some people also think they will need overhead for overclocking but most never bother.

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stranger242@reddit

You also have to take into account that PSUs also degrade. A 550w today is not 550w 5 years from now. Low wattage power supplies also tend to be lower quality (not always) They also shower 4xxx series cards spiking well above their rated wattage.

I’d rather have headroom.

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damien09@reddit

850 is def way overblown for a 4060 build. I run a 5800x3d and EVGA 3080ti ftw 450w power limit on an 850 and still have headroom. But as prices vary sometimes it's worth going up a little if the price gap is just 10 bucks. So a 650 or 750 may barely be more than say at 550w of the same model.

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Dutch_H@reddit

I ran a 3700X and a 3080 Ti with multiple drives, AIO, fansz etc for months on a 650W PSU. Never had an issue.

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AllahuSwagbar@reddit

So a good reason to have a lot of extra wattage is that the PSU will not be under as much load. Meaning the fan will not need to spin up as much or even at all

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Masztufa@reddit

850w for a 60 class gpu is insane

I ran a 1660ti (granted, older card from a time where they all took less power) with a 3600 from a corsair cx430 for like 3 years (after about 4-5 years of running my previous setup)

I wouldn't get the same psu again for the same system but 850 is just insane

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Dependent-Maize4430@reddit

A PSUs efficiency rating just means that, for example, if you have a 100w power supply rated at 80%, while you’re pulling 100w, your system will be getting 80w while the other 20w are being burned off as heat. From what I can recall, PSUs are most efficient at 50-60% of their wattage, meaning that’s when the least amount of power will be wasted as heat. You’ve also got to factor in that your PC won’t be under full load at all times though. I personally think it’s best to get a PSU that’s at least 40% more than you need. In your case, between 600-700w would be ideal in my opinion.

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AbstractionsHB@reddit

People are telling you to get a 850w for a 4060?!

I have a 750w for an i7 11700k, aio, 6 rgb fans, 1 sata ssd, 3 nvme ssd, and an rtx 4080 super.

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nihoc003@reddit

Well you're right but you forget something. GPUs especially like to spike upwards and you don't want to trip your psu every time it happens. Also psus get less efficient the older they are so you loose a tiny bit over time

For example, i run a 4090 and it draws around 350w. When i check the power draw tho, i can see that it spikes up to 600w for a few milliseconds every once in a while.

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notquark@reddit

Let's learn about transient spikes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnRyyCsuHFQ&themeRefresh=1

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Coded-GUy124@reddit

I fr bought a 750w 80+ gold to my 5600x and rx 6600 build because I was so scared to have too little

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TwuMags@reddit

Rx6600 at basic needs 450w i read, could be wrong, your card is more powerful possibly.

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DocMadCow@reddit

Well first issue with your math is 120W for your CPU. Even my 13600K peaks at 180W, and my 14700K hits around 280W at peak. Next don't assume you still stick with an RTX 4060, maybe when the 5XXX GPUs drop someone will give a killer deal on an RTX 3080 or RTX 4080 on Marketplace so with the value of your RTX 4060 an upgrade is a few hundred dollars (320W TDP). So spending $40 or $50 dollars is a great idea for long term upgradability. In fact overkilling your PSU especially with brands like Corsair where the fans don't spin until you hit a certain draw will give you a quieter PC.

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LOLmadara@reddit

Because they think " bigger number= good "

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tolec@reddit

I just go by the recommendation from the GPU maker, which in your case gives 550W. 850W is good enough for 4090.

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Mike__99@reddit

My understanding is that if you're able to double the anticipated draw, your efficiency improves, and you will spend less in electricity.

This is also impacted by the grade of the psu, eg. Bronze, silver, gold and platinum certifications.

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TR1PL3M3@reddit

If you buy a 1000W PSU, it doesn't use 1000W. Also, if you need 450W to operate and your PSU is 550W, that means it will be working at 100% unless it's 850W, which will be working much less. So, if it works less, it needs less cooling and will have a better lifespan. That is why people recommend an 850W PSU.

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Head-Iron-9228@reddit

Lets also not forget that one of the main improvements of the 40xx series was the real-life power draw.

Either way, there's a Mix of General overbuying, the idea of possible overclocking (which is basically nonexistent by now), an overall buffer, for more or less realistic reasons (less strain on the PSU, better upgradability, additional Hardware, possibility to add a second gpu and other things that most likely won't happen lmao), and so on.

Then there's also a leftover from the older days, when small Peaks actually happened and could cause the system to crash. Those don't really happen anymore because he devs and manufacturers put hard-limiters in there but still.

And on top of that, when just going the basic Google Route, all the tech-sites copying off of each other, repeating the same '850w, 650w, 1300w' that all the other tech sites are talking about for this and that System.

The general consensus seems to have fallen on 'the basic needs plus 30-50%'.

So yea. Several reasons, some more, some less viable, if you did your research and decide you're good, that is 100% viable and reasonable.

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Leather-Share5175@reddit

I’m happy with my 1200 watt PSU because lawd jeezus who knows what the 5090 is gonna draw

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fjortisar@reddit

Certainly don't need 850W for that. But there's some reasons to get a larger one.

More headroom for a more powerful card when you upgrade

Not drastically more expensive for a quality 550W vs 850W.

To run it at less than near full power, it'll be slightly more efficient.

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TheW0lvDoctr@reddit

I've always gone overkill for my PSU because it's one of the only parts that can burn down your house if something goes wrong with it. I know I'll probably be fine with a lower wattage, but hypothetically, it being overkill means it gets less stress over time, at least it does in my head and that makes me feel better about spending a little more

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CI7Y2IS@reddit

I think one of the most important thing about PSUs are how good are their rails voltages, more than how much wattage can throw

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land8844@reddit

I have an 850W PSU for my 5800X3D and 7900XTX. Works great. Had a couple teething issues, but those were worked out.

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Narrheim@reddit

PSU efficiency has nothing to do with components draw. It´s only related to how much of total power draw from the wall gets used to power the components.

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Calarasigara@reddit

850W for a 4060??? God damn that is overkill.

I have an 850W unit for my 5700X3D and RX 7800XT and even that is overkill. In a full stress test I don't think my PC even breaks the 500W mark.

I got a higher wattage unit for a future GPU upgrade and because PSUs are most efficient at around the 50% mark.

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RedLimes@reddit

750w feels like the sweet spot of price to quality and upgrade headroom, but you can definitely get by with much lower if you're on a budget.

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sirshura@reddit

here's a pro tip: quality PSU's last a long time, you have to do your math very carefully or you might end up a sucker like me upgrading psu with every pc upgrade. Maybe in 2-4 years you want a 5070-6070 instead and then you need a new psu...

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KlausKoe@reddit

I think CPU and GPU mostly use 12V.

Your ATX also delivers 3.3V and 5V. And the 550W could be 50W on 3.3V + 100W on 5V + 400W on 12V.

[Example](

So you should check how much W are on 12V. I think it was worse decades ago and now most of the W are on the 12V anyway. (They probably won't6 write Watt but Amps and you have to calculated yourself)

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CertainBattle2521@reddit

It used to have sense back in 2010s as most PSU's were really unefficient on either very low and very high loads.
Modern PSU's, are allmost flat on effiency between 20-90% load so there is no point to overspec unless you want socalled "future proofing"

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Iuslez@reddit

There are some reasons to get higher wattage (upgradability, margin of error).

Otoh my 450W PSU has been going strong for 5 years (with a 2060 and a 4060ti since a few days). My (older) 750W PSU with a lot of headroom in my other PC blew up.

If I had upgraded to a high end gpu, I would have bought new PSU anyway. There s no way I'd risk a 4090 on an old PSU to save a few bucks.

Does it limit my choice? Yes. But I do purposefully refuse to buy high consumption GPUs, so it doesn't matter.

I gotta know what YOU want and need.

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rory888@reddit

Kind of. You’ll want a better psu for quality of life overall. and wattage is only a part of that. Failure of psu is potentially catastrophic with cheap ones.

Wattage alone is not hard to deal with, within reason. Honestly anything up to 1k is ‘fine’ because the price difference isn’t that much.

However what’s not often discussed is the quality of incoming power and need for better psu , and preferably an ups, to make sure power delivery is clean.

TLDR Get an UPS, Save your equipment. Save your data.

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Taskr36@reddit

Some people go overboard. I find it's best to play it safe and exceed the recommendations by 100W if it doesn't break the bank. The RTX 4060 that you mentioned has 550W (which you've already come to) as the minimum PSU required. So going from a 550W to 650W isn't going to make much of a difference in cost, but it will ensure you have an extra 100W of headroom.

Some people are ridiculous though. I've got a 3090 with an 850W PSU and all is great. Minimum recommended is 750W, yet there are people here that will say that you should have 1500W.

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Crix2007@reddit

Inefficiency is on the socket side so 400 would be plenty.

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tony475130@reddit

You actually did the math to calculate the wattage you need, bravo! Seriously though 750-850W for just a 4060 is way too much. Assuming its paired with a midrange cpu that draws comparable wattage you’d really only need 500-650W at best. That gives you a bit of headroom so your PSU isnt always at max output at least.

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miko3456789@reddit

People have no clue what they're talking about. I'm running a R5 5600 and rx6750xt on 650w and it's trucking along just fine

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Core308@reddit

A 4060 could easilly run on a 500w PSU. But there are a few reasons to go larger
1 upgrades. If your GPU is just a stopgap to a more capable GPU you should buy a PSU that can feed your desired build.
2 cost. More often than not the prize difference between a 550w and a 650w is negligable but a 550w and a 1000w yeah there is no reason to spend that much money.
3 headroom. While a 550w PSU needs to work close to capacity for your system. A 850w PSU will work at a more leasurely rate and often so low that the PSU fan can stay off.
4 longivity. I have no proof of this at all but i would assume that a PSU running at 60% capacity will last longer than a PSU running at 90% capacity. That might be wrong but it makes sence in my head atleast.
The thing to remember though is to stay in your budget and use a reputable brand. Dont sacrifice the brand if you can sacrifice some capacity instead !

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No_Interaction_4925@reddit

They don’t. Where the hell are you getting recommendations for 850W on that setup?

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skyfishgoo@reddit

are you forgetting about your USB ports?

case fan(s)?

overclocking?

adding those in puts you square in the 750W range with not a lot of room for upgrades.

https://www.bequiet.com/en/psucalculator

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winterkoalefant@reddit

Yes, 550 watts is enough.

There are reasons why people overbuy PSU.

there aren’t many 550 watt Gold-rated PSUs these days. They often start at 650 watts, and 750 watts are only a few dollars more, small price compared to the cost of an entire midrange build.
you can keep a good PSU for 10+ years.
not every PSU is capable of delivering its advertised wattage. Manufacturers and wattage calculators don’t want to be blamed for you buying just the bare minimum.
GPUs can have power draw spikes and it can trip up some PSUs if it exceeds their power or current limits. Although good PSUs are supposed to tolerate this.
running a PSU close to 100% isn’t recommended because it causes more wear and is less efficient.

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Brojoeyo@reddit

Totaly agree and am with you, but i personally think it has a lot to do with the price difference from a 550-850 for the same make and model and its generally not much so i think people just go overboard to feel safe.

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Brojoeyo@reddit

In the grand scheme of things, they're already spending a bunch on a computer build so whats another $30 guna hurt for "future improvements" lol plus all the gpu manufacturers also play lawyer mode and overestimate it so they cant get blamed for recommending something reasonable.

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Taeloth@reddit

PSUs generate electricity obviously but a byproduct of that process is heat, naturally.

So if you have a 550w PSU and run it near max, your production charts and thermals be sub-optimal.

Will it matter? Nope. But that’s the real answer to your question.

For me the cost gap between 550-750-850-1000w etc is too low to care. More for quality of components and internals, efficiency etc.

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GenghisFrog@reddit

It’s the same in the home theater world. For some reason people think they need like 3 times the power they really do.

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MagicPistol@reddit

Yeah, I've got a ryzen 5700x and rtx 3080 running just fine with a 650w gold psu. The recommended psu for the 3080 is 750 watts.

I've had people tell me "OMG you're not getting max efficiency from your psu" or "what about power spikes?!"

Uhh ok. I've been running this build fine for 2 years now. I have this pc hooked to a UPS and can see the total power is only like 420-450w during gameplay. 400w after I undervolted the 3080. I think my 650w psu is fine.

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Metasynaptic@reddit

I just wish there was a way to see which psu have the best optional features

The spec only mandates certain protections and didn't necessarily mandate how they are implemented.

Better power supplies will implement better and smarter protections and noone advertises those.

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bow_down_whelp@reddit

I just like going a bit over what i need cus then i dont have to buy a whole new fuckin psu 2 years later when they change all the wattage requirements on new hardware

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Defiant_Ad5381@reddit

Outside of relative cost, overbuying PSU doesn’t matter. If you have an 850w PSU and your system components only draw 550w who cares? The PSU is only going to draw what the components need so it isn’t like you’re burning energy.

The higher recommended wattage PSUs are based on convenience 99% of the time. Swapping out a PSU is annoying if I want to do a GPU upgrade so I’ll spend $50 bucks more to never have to worry about it for upgrades over the course of the build lifecycle.

I run an i7@9700k, 32gb DDR4, Gigabyte 3080, about 9 RGB fans and 1 non-RGB fan off an 850W PSU on an air cooled rig pretty much used just for gaming. Do I need 850w for that?

Hell no, but if I were to upgrade tomorrow to a i7 14700k with an AIO CPU cooler I also wouldn’t have to upgrade the PSU.

Like most things in PC land, you overbuy if you can afford it, otherwise do the minimum you need for your requirements.

OP if you have done the math and you feel good with your PSU, that’s awesome. You don’t need to overbuy PSU, but if you want more flexibility that’s cool to.

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pick_userna@reddit

Don't forget to add fans, wager pumps, rub lights etc.

Your 80% math is also important, in electrical we call that "continuous load" that is the factor in which consumption increases once everything warms up. Warm conductors take more effort to push the same amount of power through them.

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spokale@reddit

I think it's more that PSUs are expensive but a good quality PSU lasts a long time, so why not buy a really nice once and then keep it for future builds?

My PSU is currently servicing it's third PC. I got it in 2014.

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fakuryu@reddit

Good job calculating your approximate usage to identify what PSU you might need.

However there is also another way of looking at it in terms of what is the best deal. Some may or may not just recommend a higher capacity PSU of just because, there are instances that the higher capacity PSU (taking to mind that you're not sacrificing quality) could be cheaper or is just a few dollars off. For example:

You can get a Cooler Master MWEv2 750w for $75 or the Corsair RMX Shift 750W for $80 which is cheaper than an EVGA Supernova G5 650, EVGA 650 GQ, Super Flower Leadex III 550.

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damastaGR@reddit

I run my 4080 on a 650W PSU (EVGA Platinum).

My whole PC never drew more than 500W from the wall.

People exaggerate.

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Cheezewiz239@reddit

You should take into account that you'll probably upgrade later on and need a higher wattage PSU so it's best to get a higher rated one now. I've been using my 750w PSU for a few years now. Started with a rx580 and now running a 7900xtx and didn't need to upgrade the PSU

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J3diMind@reddit

You're partly right, and one shouldn't buy a PSU just because "big number better then small" (not a typo). The reason some buy higher wattage PSUs is cause sometimes you get spikes in power usage. they are usually very very short, these can sometimes suck more than your psu fan handle and your system turns off. I had this once, but it's been a long time and I think both the PSUs got better and said spikes aren't as bad as earlier, so can probably treat easy knowing that you're doing it right. Calculate usage (as you did) and then check the efficiency curve for the PSUs you're interested in. This is how you get the best in terms of power consumption and bang for buck.

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randoomkiller@reddit

I have no clue how it works I know that a 550/650W bronze(I don't remember and lazy to look up) from cooler master can do a B550i Arous 3700X 2SSD's either a 3090 or 2x2080 in NvLink

and I never had problem

Actually the only thing it can't do is run more than a single 3.5" HDD for some ridiculously stupid reason, which a noname PSU can do 6 of(the other pc that I have that I use as a NAS)

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Chicke_Nuget@reddit

Im Running my 4070 super with a 450watt Psu, tho recomebded is over 600 and Never had Problems

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BurgerBurnerCooker@reddit

You arrived at the result right but the way you calculated is wrong. Instead of factoring in PSU efficiency, you need to factor in motherboard and GPU VRM efficiency.

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NewestAccount2023@reddit

You don't have to add in inefficiency, an 850w power supply supplies 850w output power guaranteed, it will be pulling in over 900w from the wall but it's explicitly designed for that. The rest of what you said is almost accurate, if the total system draw is 512w then you want a 650w. Power supplies run hotter the closer to max power you run them, power supplies are one of the most likely components to die already running it at 95% its maximum is how you get power supplies dying after a year. It's like running your 5500rpm redline car at 5300rpm everywhere you go, just sit in second gear leaving it revved to near max, you will have significant issues after not very long if you do that.

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Key-Review811@reddit

I mean sure thats the base amount, but GPU spikes WILL crash your pc if you dont have enough power. Also you should spend an extra 40 bucks for an rx 6800 imo

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SnooPandas2964@reddit

Yes I find it rather common that people over-recommend power supply wattage's. Me personally, if you add up everything I have, including my 14700kf, 4090, every fan, every drive (6 ssds and a dvd drive) and every peripheral I'm actually well over 850w ( which is what my psu is ). But I know all of my parts are never 100%ing at the same time. Plus I keep a tight leash on the more power hungry parts. Thats not to say I recommend being so close to the edge as I.

Its just, you see, I had a bit of a traumatic experience once, upgrading a perfectly working power supply, because it was a no name brand people on the internet told me was bad. So I listened to them and bought a psu that was suggested to me, an expensive gold rated antec power supply, that fried my whole system. This... was a long time ago, like, well over 10 years ago, when I was still a kid. And yes of course its just bad luck. But it affected me, and I still do not like to upgrade power supplies unless it is absolutely necessary.

And you're right, people overshoot all the time. Though there is one good reason to, if you plan to upgrade and want the room to do so, without having to buy another psu. Another argument for them is the efficiency one, that a psu is most efficient at xxxx% (60 they might say) but that cuts both ways. The higher the watts of your psu, the less efficient it becomes on idle/low watt loads. As for whats more relevant, depends how much time you spend you using your computer at high load.

And by the way, psu efficiencies don't work the way I think you think they do. A 550w psu should output 550w regardless of its efficiency. The efficiency comes from how much AC power it has to draw from the wall for converting into DC power. As long as your PSU supplies 550w on 12v rail, it should give 550w, and if its a modern name brand power supply, it should actually be equipped to handle transients above that as well. But still make sure to check the specs on printed on the power supply and look up reviews before you buy.

Good luck.

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hedgehog125@reddit

Check the number of PCIe connectors though, they limit the max power for your GPU below the total PSU wattage

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The-MemeGuy12@reddit

Lol yeah I got a r7 5800x and RTX 4060, only ended up with a 600W PSU.

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WreckingxCrew@reddit

I have a 1000w PSU and its not just because I need it but my PC has hit a power limit on my 4090 and my threadripper. I was on a 850W. It kept shutting down after doing some work. Temps were normal.

Your math calculations are solid and understand the concept you don't need a 850W PSU yfor a 512W max system.

Everyone has been recommending 650W PSU's. this works flawless with a 2nd PC that has i9 12900k, 2080TI, 64GB Ram, and 2TB x2 NVme drives/

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TheBenjying@reddit

It might just be me, but I wouldn't really consider getting below 750W. There's a lot less availability, usually worse efficiencies, less connectors, usually barely enough to cover my system, and I'm really not saving much from a 750W. By all means, if you don't have a lot of money, don't get more than what you need, but spending an addition $10-20 on a better PSU is worth it for me.

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TheDutchTexan@reddit

Meanwhile I am running a 860w Corsair PSU and it has been running for the past 8 years. It is easier for a higher watt PSU to run 60% capacity than it is to size your PSU almost perfectly so it runs at near full capacity all the time.

And you don't save a ton of money by going with a lower wattage unit either.

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blukatz92@reddit

Your setup technically should run fine even on a 450w (though most sub 500w PSUs aren't great quality wise). Otherwise yeah PSU estimates are typically overestimated. That's in part because of the sheer number of hardware combinations out there, so manufacturers will generally assume extreme scenarios to protect themselves legally.

For example, Nvidia recommends a 550w PSU on their website, with a note that this is based on pairing the 4060 with a 5900x which can use 140w stock. If you're using a CPU that has a lower power consumption then you could get away with using a smaller PSU.

I currently run a 7900xt and 5600x on a 650w despite the recommendation being 750w. The AMD website similarly says the estimate is based on using a 5900x which uses a lot more power than a 5600x.

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Z_Nato@reddit

Personally I usually go with a higher wattage psu because majority of power supplies are the most efficient between 50-60% of their total power cap. If your system is using 400 watts then an 800 watt power supply puts you in that range. Just my opinion on it

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ian_wolter02@reddit

On nvidia website it recommends a 550W psu, I'm impresed you got to that number by yourself :0 so that means they were right all along. And there are many ppl that doesn't even know how their pc works and be here recommending hardware based on just biased videos lmao, they should do their homework like you tbh.

Ps: the 4060 has a tgp of 117W, nd usually it uses like 100W of power

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kuba201002CZ@reddit

You forgot motherboard

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Wilbis@reddit

People are using 4090's with 850W PSU's without issues. Yes, PSU wattage approximations are way off.

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_zir_@reddit

Idk my evga 700w couldnt handle a 5700x3d and 7800xt so it was either broken aftee 1 year or the wattages that the psus can handle is also innacurate sometimes

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Atheist-Gods@reddit

Then I account for PSU inefficiency, assuming 80% efficiency. This gives me 0.8x = 410 therefore x = 512W.

Your PSU already accounts for that, it's telling you how many watts it outputs, not how many it pulls from the wall. Also, 80% efficiency is very low by current standards. 80+ Gold, which is basically just the default/standard, is at around 90% efficiency.

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KingAodh@reddit

It would depend on what you have and plan to upgrade. A 650w is normally the usual PSU. You can always upgrade the PSU later if you need to.

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Games_sans_frontiers@reddit

If you buy a decent quality PSU it should last 10 to 12 years easily. When I was purchasing mine it wasn't that much extra (percentage of PC cost) to go up to the next higher wattage PSU so I figured why the hell not as who knows what I'll need down the years.

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thachamp05@reddit

because PSU last multiple generations (8-10yr warranty... vs a gpu will be obsolete in 2yr).... so if the 6070 needs 2x power from 4060 you won't need to replace to get a 5060......

also no component should be runnin at max... especially PSU should be no more than %80

maybe board components of psu are rated for 10 years at 100c... those components hit 100c at 80% psu utilization... at 100% util they are 110c.. so the lifespan of those components is now 2-5 yr vs 10

PSU is the SMARTEST place to over-engineer because if you take care it could last 20 years... gpu will never be useful for more than 5

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RickyFromVegas@reddit

I ran 5600x and 69500 XT on gold 600w PSU without issues.

A slight undervolt on the GPU to keep it below 300w, but still stable as a mule. Some people told me I am lying or whatever, I just ignored them and kept on gaming

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NovusMagister@reddit

I don't know who's saying you need 850W, when the recommended PSU for an RTX 4060 is 550W.

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Majorjim_ksp@reddit

I have a Ryzen 7 5800X3D, 4080s, two SATA SSDs, an M2 NVME drive, 5 fans and a dedicated sound card and I have an 850w PSU with zero issues.

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AdScary1757@reddit

The Nvidia recommended size psu for a 4060 is 550w

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Naerven@reddit

Your calculations are off, but people generally over-spec the PSU. The PSU efficiency is added after the PSU supplies power to your system. A 500w PSU supplies 500w while drawing more from the wall. You don't subtract it from the rated power.

All that said a good 550w PSU isn't much cheaper than a good 650w normally speaking. Really in the US an A tier 750w PSU has been going for about $90. Considering they should last for at least 10 years it allows you to essentially use it for two builds without worry.

In your example you could really make do with a 450w PSU. I don't personally recommend it, but it's perfectly doable.

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Curun@reddit

Whose PSU recommendation?

nVidia recommends a 550w PSU.

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/40-series/rtx-4060-4060ti/

System Power (W) (8) 550

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Kadeda_RPG@reddit

Yeah... It's really overblown. I wouldn't recommend anything over 650 unless you got some really beefy stuff in your cpu.

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Jabba_the_Putt@reddit

for what it's worth I always factor in overclocking because I just like to tinker with my stuff running benchmarks and things. OC can pull a lot of extra power so I always throw in a couple hundred extra watts for headroom.

you also mentioned efficiency. say you have an 80% efficiency rating (80 plus) that means for every 100w your PC pulls, 80w will be used as energy and 20w will be lost as heat. it's good to have headroom so that when you're doing something like gaming or any other extended workload, you are getting peak efficiency and not creating a lot of extra heat causing extra wear and tear on the PSU

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