What's the average Americans views on Mormonism?
Posted by TinyAlexArt@reddit | AskAnAmerican | View on Reddit | 1071 comments
I never meet a Mormon, since there mostly based around Utah and I'm not even from the United States myself. But im interested in what your views on them are.
They have some rather unique doctrines and religious teachings. I have heared fundamentalist evangelicals criticising the faith for being Non-Nicenen and adding new religious text, to a point where there denying that there even Christians.
But that's a rather niche point of view from the overly religious. What does Average Joe think of them ? Do people even care at all ?
MyUsername2459@reddit
That's not a fundamentalist viewpoint, that's a mainstream Christian viewpoint.
The core belief of the Christian faith is a the Nicene Creed. You cannot be a Christian and deny Nicene theology.
Mormons are NOT Christian (neither are Jehovah's Witnesses, the other major non-Nicene faith that claims to be part of Christianity). The fact they add a third testament to the Bible, written by a 19th century farmboy from upstate New York that contains a huge amount of easily disprovable claims about events in North America before colonization (i.e. NOTHING that happens in there has even a shred of archaeological proof) doesn't help. . .but their denial of Nicene theology means they end-of-story are NOT Christian.
I've very far from a fundamentalist evangelical. The view that they aren't Christian and instead are some other religion isn't even remotely controversial or uncommon, it's mainstream normal Christian belief.
doyathinkasaurus@reddit
Jewish joke:
Q: Why did God invent Mormons?
A: So Christians would know how Jews feel
250MCM@reddit
Since Mormon jokes are being told, What do you get when you mix a LDS with LSD? A high priest. Why do they use Mormon's instead of rats for medical experiments? Because they breed quicker & don't get so attached to them.
Any Mormon I came across has been nice & have nothing against them, have no desire to become one though, & when they opened up a new Temple this year took the opportunity to join the unwashed masses to tour it before it was closed to outsiders.
PhysicsEagle@reddit
I think some historical context on the Nicene Creed would be useful.
The Creed was agreed upon when Emperor Constantine called together all the leaders of Christianity to figure out what made someone Christian and what counted as heresy (he wanted to establish Christianity as the state religion, so he needed a good definition). The result was a listing of the primary tenants of the Faith - if you diverged from them, you weren’t Christian since you didn’t believe in the basics of Christianity. This includes stuff like “God is triune, Jesus is Coeternal with the Father, Jesus died and rose again.” If you deny any of this stuff, it means you’re outside orthodox Christianity, which is, by definition, heresy. (Incidentally, LDS believe that Jesus was created by the Father and another divine being they call “Heavenly Mother” making Him NOT coeternal, so by that count alone they’re heretical).
Evangelical denominations don’t claim the creed was divinely inspired (since only the Bible was divinely inspired), but still believe it’s useful for determining what is and isn’t Christian. But if there’s a situation in which the creed isn’t clear, the Bible is the final authority and we should always rest our final judgment on Scripture.
MyUsername2459@reddit
The Nicene Creed was established in 325 AD.
Christianity did not become the state religion of Rome until 380 AD.
It is not historically accurate to claim that the Nicene Creed was established for purposes of a Roman State religion. It is misrepresenting Christian theology and history to assert such.
montrevux@reddit
you're all flavors of christian, sorry dude. no one made you the gatekeeper of what is and what isn't christian.
MyUsername2459@reddit
I'm not the gatekeeper, Christianity collectively is, and they decided in 381 AD at Constantinople who is and isn't a Christian. They published a creed and said if you don't agree with it, you're not Christian.
I'm not being a gatekeeper, I'm not setting the standard. . .it was set 1643 years ago by all of Christianity collectively. I'm just holding to the established standard.
Also, being a gatekeeper about this is NOT a bad thing. Christianity is NOT a "make up whatever you want as long as you mention Jesus in there somewhere" religion. It has actual beliefs that you have to hold, as listed in the Creed.
montrevux@reddit
the idea that some 'council' of christians got together three centuries after the start of christianity and made the 'official doctrines' of what makes a faith christian or non-christian is purely silly fantasy stuff that matters only to christians that follow said doctrines.
those of us who aren't religious don't have to give a shit. and we don't. it's why there's an entire wikipedia page for nontrinitarian christianity. whine about heretics as much as you like, you're all christians to us.
MyUsername2459@reddit
You think Wikipedia, or atheists, gets to define who is and isn't Christian?
You think non-Christians get to define who is and isn't Christian? What's next, Sikh's getting to define who is Shinto? Buddhist's getting to define who is and isn't Muslim? Jews getting to define who is and isn't Jain? Asatru getting to define who is and isn't Hindu?
montrevux@reddit
i think academia does a pretty good job of handling all of that, actually.
DeLaVegaStyle@reddit
You have a strange faith in the divinity of the Nicene Creed.
MyUsername2459@reddit
The Nicene Creed is very well established by the canons of the First Council of Nicaea and First Council of Constantinople. Christianity speaking together in Ecumenical Council is inherently infallible and a true Ecumenical Council is guided by the Holy Spirit and inherently cannot err in establishing doctrine such as a creed.
That's not "strange", that's a mainstream Christian belief that is the consensus of most of Christianity. That's a normal doctrine in Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy, and Anglicanism. . .collectively almost 3/4 of the world's Christians. Only Evangelical Protestants and some Mainline Protestants would deny that. Before the Protestant Reformation in the 16th century that was universally held by all Christians. Those denominations might argue over which councils are validly Ecumenical, but they all recognize the Nicene Creed and its authority.
DeLaVegaStyle@reddit
I know what the creed is. I just don't find it divine. And I have zero reason to put faith in its divinity. Using the the church's consensus to measure validity is a dangerous game to play that doesn't bode well for Christianity. But you do you.
Sweet_Cinnabonn@reddit
I think it would be for anyone who knows enough about the religion to know that.
But I get a lot of people telling me I must be lying about their beliefs. So I know that there's a whole lot of people who think of them as just a slightly odd Christian denomination.
Being nice goes a long way.
MicroConfession@reddit
Devout Mormon here. Hello!
AppropriateGround623@reddit
How are women treated in your community? I heard it’s very controlling
slayer1am@reddit
Have you read the CES letter? Just curious.
Impressive_Bison4675@reddit
It’s been debunked many times. I have seriously read every information that ex Mormons or anyone outside the church will use against the church and I’m still very active in the church. Plus I am also a convert
slayer1am@reddit
I mean, flat earthers also claim that globe theory has been debunked. Just because they say that doesn't mean anything.
Look, you disagree with Jehovahs Witnesses, right? Or Pentecostals or Baptists or most other denominations.
Let's say you have a rock solid argument that highlights flaws in JW doctrine. And then a JW says that's no big deal, it's been debunked.
Who cares what the JW thinks, he is clearly biased, right?
And that's how everyone thinks when we hear a proponent of the religion in question say the counter apologetic has been "debunked".
Impressive_Bison4675@reddit
Yeah just because I claim it to be debunked doesn’t mean anything just like you saying is true doesn’t lol. Except you know facts.
Also you don’t seem to understand how faith works. Yeah I don’t agree with many of these people but I respect their beliefs I don’t need to “fact check” them or anything like that because what the point? I have my testimony of own faith and that’s why I do all that I do. I’m not trying to prove anything to anyone but honestly don’t like it when people exaggerate or flat out life about my faith which is what the CES letter does. People will attack religion like there is no tomorrow but then if people don’t agree with their beliefs it’s like it’s the end of the world. Well you kind of have to pick one.
slayer1am@reddit
Maybe people wouldn't attack religion if church leaders weren't always trying to cover up rampant problems, like sexual abuse of minors, inappropriate use of funds, etc.
Impressive_Bison4675@reddit
I’m sorry do you think any member of the church tries to cover up anything? I for sure don’t and I don’t think anyone I know would do such a thing. The leaders of the church don’t always deal with things the best way but at the moment the church so doing great at adressing those issues. Inappropriate use of funds? First off that’s not true, second why do you care they’re not taking you’re money? Third the church does more charity than any organization in the world and do do it’s members. It’s not even comparable to other organizations or even the average person. So id say they’re doing pretty great with the funds that really are not yours to worry about
slayer1am@reddit
https://apnews.com/article/mormon-church-investigation-child-sex-abuse-9c301f750725c0f06344f948690caf16
Impressive_Bison4675@reddit
Actually no they don’t. They upper leadership have taken very good precautions, no one is allowed to be with children alone ever. It always have to be two people. Of course they have been people in the church that have tried to cover or things like that but there is terrible people everywhere and they have always been excommunicated when caught.
slayer1am@reddit
Look up "worthiness interviews". For DECADES, these were often conducted by a single older white dude alone with the teenager, either male or female.
Then he would ask extremely personal questions about whether they masturbated, whether they watched porn, etc.
It was a horrible practice, and the church finally reversed the policy not that long ago. But ONLY after a massive public backlash and many bishops getting excommunicated because they spoke up against it.
Also look up Sam Young and his story for context.
Impressive_Bison4675@reddit
I don’t need to look it up cause every member had those interviews and they’re not at all like you make them sound. You’re not genuine and that’s why I’m done arguing with you. Im every organization where there are children has been abuse of children and that’s a terrible thing I wish weren’t that terrible but you make it sound like our church has a major problem and that’s not true, it is very rare for it happen and it happens a lot more often in public schools, it’s not even close. Also it happens a lot more often in the family. So stop. Yes thing like that have happened in the church and the church has done everything possible to prevent it don’t make it sound like that’s a normal occurrence in the church cause it’s not
slayer1am@reddit
91 lawsuits against the Mormon church JUST in California alone.
https://floodlit.org/100-lawsuits-california/
Impressive_Bison4675@reddit
Yeah like anyone takes seriously anything that happens in California lol
slayer1am@reddit
Lots of people do, yes. California has one of the highest GDP output of all the states, and it has a huge population. It's one of the most important states in the US.
Impressive_Bison4675@reddit
Yeah watch me not care
Impressive_Bison4675@reddit
And you can hate religion all you want but it’s the religious people that do the most charity and it’s them that have the most compassion for people and are more likely to help those in need. Look It instead being blinded by hate
MicroConfession@reddit
Don't trust what anyone outside the church says about it. They have their own motives.
Realtrain@reddit
[well there it is.gif]
VeronicaMarsupial@reddit
And people inside the church don't have their own motives? Like controlling people and fleecing money from them?
MicroConfession@reddit
People in the church have been nothing but amazing to me and my family. Don't believe what you see in the news.
slayer1am@reddit
So, are you aware of the many times that the mormon church has covered up sexual abuse of minors? Enough that lawsuits have been filed and investigations done?
It's great that YOU have had a great experience. But that doesn't mean that it invalidates the struggles of others.
imthesqwid@reddit
This is a weird take.
I’m Mormon as well, and I feel horrible for others who have been treated poorly from church leaders, but their experience doesn’t invalidate my experience in my church.
Who said the church was perfect?
slayer1am@reddit
It's not about the church being perfect, it's about making a moral decision to not support an organization that repeatedly avoids doing the right thing.
Personal experience is not a metric that provides reliable results from an epistemological standpoint.
hermitthefraught@reddit
What about what we've seen in our own experiences and those of people we know? They've been very un-amazing to lots and lots of people. But good for you for being one of the privileged ones I guess.
Seaforme@reddit
What sort of motives?
MicroConfession@reddit
Taking down organized religion because it benefits their own politics
Seaforme@reddit
And what politics would benefit from "taking down" organized religion? We don't see this done with other faiths.
MicroConfession@reddit
You absolutely do
Wermys@reddit
BYU is going to lose to Utah!
CorrectBad2427@reddit
Utah Lost to ASU 💪
Sweet_Cinnabonn@reddit
At least everyone thinks you are nice?
MicroConfession@reddit
I've been blessed with an amazing life. I have a loving husband and four beautiful kids. I have a close, tight knit family. I got to live abroad which changed my perspective on the world forever. I love my life, and I'd change nothing, and I've been a devout member of the Church my whole life. Why shouldn't I believe in it? My life would absolutely not be better at all if I left.
Sweet_Cinnabonn@reddit
I'm absolutely happy for you that you have a life you find amazing.
I did not at all intend to be belittling you, only acknowledge that it must be hard to watch threads where so many are derogatory about the faith. But at least the overall impression is of people being nice.
My "sweet Mormon grandma" as she called herself who's be pleased at that part.
badnewsbb@reddit
As someone who grew up in the Mormon church, and now no longer practices, I'd say most people see them as nice but somewhat backward people. It's very traditional and conservative compared to most here in California. No drinking alcohol, coffee, tea. No smoking of any kind, and no premarital sex. It's definitely restrictive. We had some bizarre beliefs. It is distinct from mainstream Christianity, especially in the worship rites performed in the temples.
I remember the rivalry Mormons had with other churches, especially Evalengicals and Jehovah's Witnesses. We had a more favorable view toward Catholics and Jewish people.
If you take into account it's start in early 19th century American Revivalism, Mormonism definitely has mellowed out over the years. I love many of the people I grew up with, but I don't agree with the beliefs anymore.
(P.S. don't call them Mormon anymore. They prefer LDS or members of the Church of Jesus Christ)
AppropriateGround623@reddit
Interesting. I don’t get why there is a ban on tea and coffee, lmao.
As for premarital sex, I find that the majority of American Christians engage in it, despite a lot of them considering it immoral. Is that the same with Mormons?
Responsible-Test8855@reddit
r/exmormon
Cult of fake freaks.
Randyfoxybutthead777@reddit
Mormons are like any religion: most of them are normal, friendly folk, but there are subsections of mormons with extremely backwards practices and beliefs (enforced gender roles, polygamy, spousal abuse etc.)
If there's any "religious" group that's really bizarre, it's scientology.
GuitarEvening8674@reddit
Very culty... they wear cool underwear though
AKDude79@reddit
Jehovah's Witnesses with money
eijtn@reddit
Capitalism made into a religion.
benjpolacek@reddit
What's funny is that in more fundamentalist mormon communities, some of them try to implement what's called the United Order. Basically all the families share their money and resources. Granted i'd argue its more like a religious community like monks or nuns than socialism, but its interesting that some mormon fundamentalists put this into practice, or try to on some level. Granted it seems like its funded through capitalistic means. Like if Russia had tried to promote socialism, but also owned American businesses to give cash flow.
Maryfarrell642@reddit
How is it different from any TV evangelist
eijtn@reddit
I give up. How is it different?
Odd_Jellyfish_5710@reddit
The OG of that is the Catholic Church
Odd-Local9893@reddit
Not really. In my experience JW’s are kind of miserable people…stiff, awkward, and humorless. Most of the Mormons I’ve met are much happier and fun to be around. Yes they’re both annoying when they come to your door, but if I had to choose it would be LDS all the way. Being able to actually celebrate fun things like holidays, birthdays etc is kind of important to me.
benjpolacek@reddit
Might depend. I knew a few of them. Seemed to be alright. Very religious people but didn't seem to bother us with any of that. Most we got in terms of them proseletyzing was one student of my mom's giving her a tape about how JW's were persecuted in World War Two. It was interesting and I didn't know that they were specifically persecuted by the Nazis.
Tortie33@reddit
My nephew converted and married a Mormon. She won’t talk to us. She pretends she’s tired and leaves. I believe she doesn’t want to interact with non Mormons.
calliatom@reddit
Eh. I'm not Mormon but I've lived in Utah my whole life and let me tell you, that "happy, bubbly" shit is often a very thin facade. They're basically the Church of Fake Nice to Cover Catty Bullshit.
QuantumPhysicsFairy@reddit
I was brought up Mormon. Growing up in the church you are surrounded by a culture that often tells you that you have to be smiley, bubbly, and cheerful -- ecspecially to outsiders. I can remember being six and having a lesson about the importance of wearing a smile in order to make friends and invite them to church. Being cheerful was seen as a virtue, and this something people could judge your faithfulness based on. There's a fair bit of toxic positivity. That's not to say all Mormons are secretly miserable, but you are taught how to be outwardly cheerful in order to draw people in. It's not that they are manipulating you or only want to befriend you to bring you to church, either, but from a young age you are taught that being cheerful and spreading the gospel is an important part of being a good friend.
All that said, I would still agree that JWs are more extreme in the day-to-day. However, LDS missions take everything up to 11. I truly don't think there are many more culty, extreme experiences out there.
tedivm@reddit
This isn't my experience at all- my city had a fairly big population of JWs and a ton of them were on my high school robotics team. They and their families weren't really all that uptight, at least compared to Mormons.
IHaveALittleNeck@reddit
ExJW here. Nailed it.
BranchBarkLeaf@reddit
How/why did you leave. I know someone who left her church and joined them many years ago.
IHaveALittleNeck@reddit
I was brought up in it. I went to college at 18 two states away and was subsequently disfellowshipped. 30 years ago, women going away to college was unheard of. It’s still heavily frowned upon.
Ok-Fan2301@reddit
Did your family mourn "for you", referring to your apostasy?
IHaveALittleNeck@reddit
By then, my mother was also disfellowshipped. As far as everyone else is concerned, I don’t know. I was 500 miles away.
Margot-the-Cat@reddit
This is totally untrue. I don’t believe you were brought up Mormon if you say this. Maybe your family disapproved, but not the church! Brigham Young actually sent women back east in the 1800s to stuffy medicine.
IHaveALittleNeck@reddit
I was raised a Jehovah’s Witness. Never said I was LDS. Maybe next time read the comments before responding.
Tortie33@reddit
Do you still have contact with your family?
Antioch666@reddit
Yeah, they don't like it when you get too smart and think for yourself. Especially the "subservient" gender.
plywooden@reddit
Like a cult.
annaoze94@reddit
I don't mean to be insensitive but I've heard that a lot of Jehovah's witnesses are black, are the majority of them black or just a lot of them are? This is just really interesting to me and I wonder what the origin of this is
IHaveALittleNeck@reddit
A lot of this depends on the area. I’m close to a city, so my congregation was more diverse. At my congregation, they didn’t care what you were as long as you played by the rules, but I’ve since learned from other exJWs that the organization can be racist in some areas. It’s just not something I personally saw as my congregation was fairly evenly split between Black and white people. Overall, it’s still predominantly white.
GarbageDolly@reddit
They have more black people than the general US population, but the majority are still white. They have more hispanic people than the general US population also. Frankly they prey upon poor, disenfranchised people. And yes, another ex JW here.
__The-1__@reddit
I've somehow lived in a house with both these religions in it at the same time and the Mormons are the broke ones in these parts. Both religions were waaay shady and full of corruption, hell a few of the mormon elders tried to bring me in as a mule for their meth operation as a teen and also made it clear they wanted in my butt lmao. Weird times.
poirotoro@reddit
ಠ_ಠ
__The-1__@reddit
Hey you end up in some weird situations as a homeless teen lol, that being said my life hasn't really been less weird and wild since I bailed on that scene.
ContributionDapper84@reddit
How are you doing now? Well, I hope.
tensaicanadian@reddit
Mormon elders are missionaries. They are monitored far too closely to be involved in a meth operation. I don’t believe your story
luckylimper@reddit
This sounds like some FLDS stuff
tensaicanadian@reddit
The meth thing or my answer?
luckylimper@reddit
Meth.
__The-1__@reddit
Oh no they got found out by the church/temple or whoever, a few times even. One was excommunicated eventually, but the others would probably still doing it to this day if the police hadn't got involved. Was a bust of like 50+ people, not all Mormon ofc but definitely over a dozen of them were.
tensaicanadian@reddit
So I’m a seventh or eight generation Mormon. I was born and raised in the church. I served a mission and now I have left the church. I am firmly against the church and its teachings. However, I don’t see any value in making things up or telling stories that aren’t true to make the church look bad. . I know the church far too well to believe your story. Maybe you aren’t lying but maybe you didn’t understand what those meth dealers relation was to the church. Random Mormon members commit crimes and surely have dealt meth before. But I’ve never heard this story you are talking about. I don’t know what you mean by “people that teach Mormons”. Maybe the meth dealers held the office of “teacher” and that’s where you get that. Any Mormon male over the age of 14 is considered a teacher.
Also the church is not corrupt in the regular everyday sense as you are using it. There’s no institutional level theft of tithing funds.
davevine@reddit
But you had already smoked it all. Got it. What a load of shit. 😂
__The-1__@reddit
Yeah, got hooked at 15 by my parents.. Sober for almost a decade now tho. Not here to talk shit, my experience with my Christian family wasn't any better lol. Idc that you can't believe it, tbh I get that alot. Think it's because I've never lived a life that people can relate to.
BranchBarkLeaf@reddit
🤯
forceghost187@reddit
Wtf
MyUsername2459@reddit
Yup, JW's and Mormons both emerged from 19th century charismatic cult leaders in America who thought that they, and only they, could give proper guidance and that all of Christianity was collectively wrong except for them.
They're both products of the same era, the same culture, the same mentality. They're both toxic as heck, just in slightly different ways.
warm_sweater@reddit
19th century dudes inventing some weird shit in order to get away with being a pedo (at least with Joseph Smith and the Mormons) and it snowballs into a whole fucking religion.
MyUsername2459@reddit
L. Ron Hubbard definitely had some pedo vibes with Scientology too.
There are plenty of stories of the "Commodores Messenger Organization" within the CoS from when he was around, the branch of the paramilitary arm of Scientology that was composed of pre-teen girls in skimpy clothes that was Hubbard's personal assistants, messengers, and general entourage for the last 20 years of his life or so.
BigPapaJava@reddit
Fun fact: most of the basis of Scientology came from Aleister Crowley’s “Thelema” religion.
Hubbard just put a sci-fi spin on it to make it sound “scientific” instead of “satanic”
If you want to dig into this, look up the young Hubbard’s relationship with Jack Parsons, President of a Southern California chapter of Thelema, where they smoked a ton of pot and performed various sexual rituals together and with a female partner.
There are a lot of letters from Crowley mocking what they were doing as foolish. After Parsons and Hubbard had a falling out, Hubbard took what he’d learned and used that as the basis for Dianetics and the whole church ideology.
MyUsername2459@reddit
Ronald DeWolfe, L. Ron Hubbard's son (he changed his name because he did NOT want to be known as L. Ron Hubbard Jr.) has even described Scientology as black magic practices that Hubbard copied from Crowley, just stretched out over a course of decades and given a sci-fi veneer.
BigPapaJava@reddit
I wasn’t aware of DeWolfe, but he’s right.
Honestly, a lot of “alternative religions” that popped up in the Western world post WW2 had a lot of Crowley influence in there.
Charlotte_Martel77@reddit
Really? I had never heard about the link btw Crowley and Charismatics, but to be honest, it doesn't shock me in the least. There is something so off about that style of "worship" and is so self focused.
stibgock@reddit
They do not, or they deny
JagneStormskull@reddit
Also a very important rocket scientist IIRC.
BigPapaJava@reddit
Yep. A self-taught rocket scientist with only a HS education, IIRC.
He died under semi-mysterious circumstances several years after testifying against the LAPD in an embarrassing case.
JagneStormskull@reddit
Huh.
BigPapaJava@reddit
He died in a home lab explosion.
Some conspiracy theorists have alleged it may have been murder or a suicide.
He made a lot of enemies in his life,
tedivm@reddit
To be clear, Scientology took a lot of the ritual and structure but not really the beliefs themselves. Since Hubbard also "borrowed" from a lot of other sources it's definitely not as simple as being directly lifted from Thelema. Thelema doesn't have any of the Xenu shit, for instance.
Few-Might2630@reddit
Last Podcast on the Left has awesome episodes on the factual histories of both Scientology and Mormons
NewbombTurk@reddit
I got you. Mormons and Scientologists
BigPapaJava@reddit
That’s a good point.
What Hubbard did was rebrand it behind a made-up sci fi lore, which was still compatible with a lot of the rituals, ideas, and theory from Thelema since there was no real “historical” aspect to it, either.
Thelema itself was cobbled together from things Crowley had studied as he obsessed over joining (and trying to take over) any occult or magical groups in the 19th and early 20th centuries.
TBH, s lot of contemporary New Age stuff snd even some mainstream psycho-therapy had adopted some of the same concepts in slightly different forms.
annaoze94@reddit
John Smith 🤝 L Ron Hubbard
KatieNdR@reddit
If you change the century, that sounds a lot like some other religions I've heard of.
Maryfarrell642@reddit
I guess I just don't see there's any different from the charismatic cult of Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell or Billy Graham or any of their ilk
justmyusername2820@reddit
Throw in Seventh-Day Adventist too
doyathinkasaurus@reddit
Joke from an American rabbi
Q: Why did God invent Mormons?
A: So Christians would know how Jews feel
MrsMenace@reddit
I involuntarily snort laughed and almost choked on my juice. Who's this rabbi, and how can I send him some honey cake?
doyathinkasaurus@reddit
Rabbi Tovia Singer from Jews for Judaism - was on one of his YouTube videos!
Upstairs_Bison_1339@reddit
I’m pretty sure he lives in Israel so he’s not American
JagneStormskull@reddit
He's from Outreach Judaism, a similar organization to Jews for Judaism, but not Jews for Judaism.
doyathinkasaurus@reddit
Aha, yes of course!! Thanks for the correction
stibgock@reddit
This wooshed me. I know way too little about religion...
HoeToKolob@reddit
My guess, as an exmormon, is:
Christians add a holy book (New Testament now alongside Old) and say the tenets of Judaism are now obsolete, Judaism is no longer where God wants the chosen people.
Mormons add a holy book (Book of Mormon now alongside Bible) and say Christianity has been in apostasy since the early Church, other denominations are only partly on track.
Also, Mormonism is among the few that claims to be “restorationist” rather than protestant or revivalist, with the restoration coming from revelation rather than a return to Biblical source. Early Judaism has prophets that speak face to face with G-d, Early Christianity has God the Son and voiceover from God the Father, both religions become textual interpretation with few new revelations given. Mormonism arrives and says “God speaks again.” Mormonism is on track to follow the same pattern. The clearly days were full of massive claims of revelation, their current claims of revelation are like “God said we can go to church for two hours instead of three”
z7r1k3@reddit
I'd dispute this last one. While it's certainly presumable that church leaders would prayerfully consider each change and decision, not everything they say and do is a "God explicitly said/commanded this". We believe they're chosen by God to lead the church, but we also believe that a slothful servant is commanded in all things (D&C 58:26).
I'm also pretty sure that what most members of the church would think of when considering modern day revelation would be things like official proclamations (e.g. "The Family: A Proclamation to the World" from the 90s iirc), the focus to shift from multiple national programs to global in-house programs e.g. scouting, and the decision to add "Come, Follow Me" (an in-home gospel study program) ahead of the pandemic. Things like that.
That, and things concerning the future, such as prophecies about needing the individual guidance/companionship of the Holy Ghost in the coming days, or prophecies related to the "Gathering of Israel".
Not trying to proselytize here, nor get into a debate about what is true. Just thought I'd clarify what we typically think of in regards to modern revelation from church leadership, at least from my point of view as a current member.
Of course, it's not quite as bold as the revelation in the early days of the church, as you mentioned.
Thanks for being so cordial.
HoeToKolob@reddit
My take is that everything you’ve mentioned is further evidence that the “revelations” aren’t significant claims, especially when compared to revealing new scripture or explaining the mysteries of heaven. I mean, in jest but also in some degree of seriousness, where are the sealed portions of the Book of Mormon at? People who don’t believe can look at that stuff and say, “Well I don’t believe it, but if it were true, it’s clearly prophetically gained knowledge.”
The Family Proclamation seems more like political response to a growing secular understanding of complex sexual and gender science and politics, reinforcing existing traditional church ideology. Nothing in it felt like a new “revelation”, even to me as a kid when it was released.
Scouting was also a political response, after a protracted PR battle over LGBTQ issues and lawsuit liability.
The discontinuation of polygamy and racial discrimination were also timed around legal issues.
Come Follow Me is just a step further toward home based church practiced they were already promoting as Family Home Evening is now less promoted. It also does more interpreting and selecting of scriptures, keeping discussions focused on correlated church messaging, rather than previous lessons that were more open format.
I’ve seen members laud it as prophetic insight for Covid, but it doesn’t really feel as significant as “stock up on masks, protect nursing homes, and invest earlier in RNA vaccines” would have been. I’m glad Nelson promoted the vaccine, but “follow the CDC” also doesn’t come across as prophetic. Especially when there was a big push to get people back to church too early.
If Joseph Smith were around, he’d respond to the CES Letter with a slew of revelations explaining everything. Instead, the current leadership says, “We don’t have answers to the mysteries of God. Stop looking to the internet for answers and come to us, even though we don’t have any.”
I am super grateful for the pandemic and the Come Follow Me manual, though. It was revelatory for me—turns out I was happier staying home on Sunday, and the manual was so milquetoast, I realized all my growth in the ten years prior had come from social sciences and not religious study. Helped me finally answer yes to the question, “Would you want to know if the church isn’t true?”
z7r1k3@reddit
While I appreciate you have a different point of view, I'm not intending to debate the truthfulness here. I was simply trying to acknowledge that we consider modern-day revelation to be more significant than just changes in church hours.
I would also highlight that the 12th Article of Faith, as written by Joseph Smith, states:
So I wouldn't be surprised if things being illegal have an influence on church policy, though not necessarily all policies.
HoeToKolob@reddit
The examples you suggested might have varying degrees of significance for remembers, but my point is that they show no more requirement for being revelation than shortening church, which might feel like a hyperbolic example, but isn’t to a huge degree.
Angels appearing at Kirtland Temple? Joseph claiming to receive continual visits from various prophets and early apostles? Joseph F Smith’s vision of the spirit world? Grand claims of revelation and divine presence that continue beyond Joseph’s initial foundational visions.
Early Judaism and early Christianity also had that (burning bush, Mount Sinai, Mount of Transfiguratjon, the forty days leading to the Ascension), and then became religions that relied much more on the early texts, rather than having new ones continually emerge, with grand divine claims. That seems to be the pattern for Mormonism as well.
AnastasiaNo70@reddit
Some guy went in the desert and tripped balls and formed a whole church about it.
HoeToKolob@reddit
In the case of Mormons, went to the woods and the next guy was like… “Wait we didn’t do the desert yet! Westward ho!”
lovetrashtv@reddit
Strong disagree even though I'm not Mormon. Jehovah's Witnesses suck the joy out of life. No holidays. birthdays, dancing and no blood tranfusions if your loved one needs one. Mormons can dance and have holidays. They do a lot of fun activities.
eyetracker@reddit
Mormon proselytizing is a lot less aggressive and in-your-face IME.
Z4mb0ni@reddit
I've had more Mormons come up to me than JWs, granted those numbers are 1 and 0 respectively.
Tortie33@reddit
My nephew converted and now the missionaries come to my house. They never came to my house before he moved here.
Wermys@reddit
Those are missionaries. That is there whole schtick. Mormons tend not to do that however when they are not doing missionary work.
eyetracker@reddit
JWs like setting up in public places along with door-knocking, so you might see them with a bunch of placards about your damnation at college campuses or during events.
shelwood46@reddit
I don't know about that, it's usually teen/early 20s young men and some of them can get pretty aggressive with women, like the one who verbally accosted me in a Wawa parking lot this summer. They do have way better PR, I'll give them that.
botulizard@reddit
I've had the opposite experience. The Jehova's Witnesses around me don't come to the door, they stand outside downtown and hand out literature. They won't engage you, though, you have to approach them in order to be preached to.
The local Mormon missionaries will do things like approach you out of nowhere, chase you on their bicycles, or try to add random people on facebook, etc,
palmettoswoosh@reddit
Also they at least celebrate birthdays and the major Christian holy days
timesuck897@reddit
And accept blood donations.
palmettoswoosh@reddit
My mawmaw when she was alive had a very strong opinion on the jehovahs for this as one of her brothers died bc his wife was a JW and wouldn't allow a transfusion.
RevolutionaryBug2915@reddit
That used to be the Christian Scientists, but they are fading away before our eyes.
jcmib@reddit
Damn that’s a damn good explanation. But at least Mormons encourage higher education, not FLDS but the mainstream ones do.
AnastasiaNo70@reddit
Yeah they go to BYU until they find someone to marry then drop out.
InkStainedQuills@reddit
The church sure. The following… far more mixed. The number of members living at poverty level while having 4-6 kids and still expected to give 10% is truly depressing. Instead of using their amassed funds to help their following they invest it for… well no one is quite sure. Maybe it’s for “the end times”, but my money is on the idea that they are doing it for political purposes in order to 1) continue gaining legitimacy, and 2) gain political power to try and force their beliefs on others as we have already seen many times over.
No-Razzmatazz1000@reddit
Have you ever studied either of those religions?
QuarterNote44@reddit
I don't think so. JWs pride themselves in being difference. LDS are desperate to be liked by the world.
DependentSun2683@reddit
If the average american took all the money they spent on alcohol, tobacco and caffeine and invested it we would all probably be rich as well.
AKDude79@reddit
Yes but we enjoy our sins too much
mortomr@reddit
Boo
bjanas@reddit
Loved it when my ex and I left the house two find two women (their husbands were across the street) in long dresses knocking on our door.
They were characteristically very friendly, but we got a kick out of being able to tell them, truthfully, that we were on our way to one of the bigger pride parades in Massachusetts. Credit where it's due, they played it pretty cool.
ab7af@reddit
At least Jehovah's Witnesses stay out of politics.
DimbyTime@reddit
Blonde haired blue eyed JWs
Subject_Trifle2259@reddit
And holidays
WaldenFont@reddit
But without coffee.
benjpolacek@reddit
Nice but kind of odd. Also, it seems like so many of them are conventionally attractive at the very least. Granted I heard Utah does have high rates of plastic surgery.
Glittering_Fennel_87@reddit
I encountered Mormons in, of all places, Salt Lake City. If you are not a Mormon, they keep their distance & can be down right ride. However, this was in the 70's. So you know my understanding, I was looking for an apt. Listing were "LDS" only. As I had no knowledge of Mormons, I had to ask the store clerk what LDS meant. He said "Mormons" only. That's was their level of racism then I hope they've awakened to their ignorance. Again. I found them rather ride and racists!
Odd-Help-4293@reddit
I don't know what the "average" person's views are. The ones I've known have largely been nice, ordinary people. Their beliefs are a bit odd, but lots of religions have some odd beliefs.
Their missionaries are annoying, but I rarely run into them, and I've never had a Mormon try to convert me who wasn't like 18 and actively doing the missionary work that church requires.
liliggyzz@reddit
I live in California in a small city that has a really big Mormon temple and the apartment building I currently live in has a few Mormon missionaries that live here. For the most part, they don’t bother anyone they don’t knock on peoples door to preach about Mormonism which I like unlike the Jehovah witnesses that will knock on peoples door. I actually had a Jehovah witness knock on my door about 2 weeks ago. Most people including myself think the Mormon religion is odd & doesn’t make sense. I don’t judge Mormons on a personal level they all aren’t the same but the religion itself is odd and many people think that way about it.
MagicWalrusO_o@reddit
As a Westerner, the LDS church is by far the most influential organized religious institution around here. I've known several (practicing and ex) Mormons, and generally extremely nice and well-intentioned people. They obviously believe a lot of things that I don't, but they've lived their values with a lot more integrity than most of the Evangelical communities I've interacted with.
Sandi375@reddit
My best friend's husband was Mormon before he was kicked out for marrying a Lutheran. They're nice, but they aren't well-intentioned. Their goal is to convert. The acts they do to help others (mission trips, for example) are all in the name of conversion.
It's a cult, hands down. And they are fake.
Ambiti0nZ-@reddit
Proselytizing is a core tennet of Mormonism, as it is for most Abrahamic cults and their whacky spin-offs except for Judaism.
doyathinkasaurus@reddit
Mormons posthumously baptising Holocaust victims is truly sickening
https://apnews.com/article/992dd887f7b948d0a08055dff0363aa4
SkinkAttendant@reddit
They believe it gives them the option to join not force them. And if you don't believe in the religion why would you believe that ritual would have any power? If a Muslim told me my great grandmother was a Muslim now I'd give him a weird look and keep walking
throwawaydragon99999@reddit
It’s deeply disrespectful and patronizing
SkinkAttendant@reddit
And yet if you tell people that their dead relatives are going to hell because they aren't a member of your church (like most religions) no one bats an eye. Ironic.
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
I think this practice is silly, but I don’t know why it would be “sickening.” Do you think that their posthumous baptisms by proxy actually do anything? I certainly don’t think it has any metaphysical power over the deceased. And when you think about, they think they’re doing something good, not something harmful or disrespectful. Like why does it even matter? It does nothing and hurts no one.
Maybe you’re not aware of this, but Jesus was a Jew. As were all of the disciples and apostles. As were 95% of people in the Bible. Being a Christian (or not) doesn’t actually have to affect one’s Jewishness.
This is not a thing. People who are antisemitic and want to eradicate Jews are certainly not doing it through conversion. It doesn’t even make sense because if you’re a race essentialist (like Nazis and other antisemitic bigots), you certainly don’t believe people can covert.
throwawaydragon99999@reddit
It’s sickening because it’s a deeply disrespectful thing to do to someone against their will, it would be like having a roast pig and an open bar at a Muslim funeral.
Worshipping Christianity is incompatible with Judaism. While we might not believe their baptism does anything, the Mormons certainly do - they think they have a right to determine the spiritual destination for dead people (against their wishes in life) which is deeply disrespectful
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
But they’re literally not doing anything to that person. And that person is dead, so they no longer have a will. And it’s not like they invite the family over for the ceremony or something.
That seems pretty intentionally disrespectful, and I don’t get the vibe that LDS are trying to be disrespectful. And that’s also fairly closely connected to the deceased and their family. I think it’d be more like “let’s raise a glass to _____ [celebrity who recently died]” without knowing that they were in recovery and didn’t support drinking. Like the deceased and their family are never gonna know that you got hammered in their honor, so why does it matter?
Again, this is not accurate. All early Christians were Jews. What aspect of Judaism would someone have to give up/renounce to become Christian?
I agree that it’s prideful and condescending. But again, they don’t actually have the power to “determine the spiritual destination” for anyone. I don’t think their little ceremonies have any power whatsoever, so I don’t care at all what they think they’re doing because what they’re actually doing is nothing. (In general, I’m concerned with what DNA ancestry companies are doing with people’s DNA, but I’ve literally said that I’m fine with Ancestry.com because they’ll just “make me Mormon” after I die – which is meaningless and has no power/does nothing – as opposed to other companies that are profiting off people’s DNA and selling their data to whoever.)
I guess it’s disrespectful via carelessness, but I don’t think it’s the kind of direct and intentional disrespect that you’re ascribing to it.
throwawaydragon99999@reddit
Yom Kippur just ended so I can now comment. It is deeply disrespectful and patronizing - it’s these Mormons saying “we don’t care about their silly little Judaism, they can be part of the TRUE religion now”.
There’s is a nearly 2000 year history of Christians trying to convert Jews to Christianity, and this is deeply disrespectful because it implies that Christianity is correct and Judaism is false - AND that Christians have the right to make these kinds of decisions on behalf of Jews. From a Jewish perspective, this is very disrespectful. To severely understate this: Jews are very proud of our religion, culture, and history - AND deeply proud to have maintained our traditions and history despite untold obstacles and oppression. Baptizing dead Jews to become Mormons is deeply disrespectful to that history, AND the personal wishes of the deceased and their families.
Christianity - including Mormonism- is incompatible with Judaism. Judaism is defined by strict monotheism: one of the most important prayers in Judaism is the Shema : “Hear oh Israel, The Lord is our God, the Lord alone” which can also be read as “The Lord is One”. Christians - by definition- worship Jesus as either (part of) God himself or some other type of divine being- THAT is incompatible with Judaism, according to traditional Judaism the Christian Trinity is idolatry. Another crucial part of Judaism is waiting for the coming of the Messiah - Jesus did not fulfill the biblical prophesies of the Messiah, therefore Christianity is incompatible with Judaism. There are many more crucial and defining differences after 2000 years of evolution, however those two things alone : calling Jesus the Messiah and calling Jesus God/ divine or supernatural are both incompatible with Judaism in the most basic level.
My grandpa was a Holocaust survivor who was hidden by Catholic monks - whom he loved and hand a deep respect for- however they made him be baptized, when I asked him about it he referred it to as a “pagan ritual.” My great-aunt married a Catholic man in the 1960s and converted to Catholicism - my great grandparents held a Shiva (Jewish funeral) for her and treated her like she was dead for over 5 years (only Orthodox/ Hasidic fundamentalists still do this, but that was the traditional Jewish view of converting to Christianity - that you were no longer Jewish).
While I might think that the Mormons baptizing dead Jews doesn’t do anything, the Mormons believe they’re saving these poor Jews from Judaism (both implying that Judaism is inferior and needs to be saved from, and that they know better than us).
TLDR: If Mormons are baptizing dead Jews, Jews should get to circumcise dead Mormons
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
That’s what I said? I said it was disrespectful in a dismissive, condescending way, but not in the in-your-face way you were describing with the funeral example.
So just to clarify, you don’t think that Judaism is true and Christianity is false? I can’t think of a religion that doesn’t make a truth claim that indicates exclusivity. Of course Christians think Christianity is the truth, that’s fundamental to being a Christian. The same could be said of Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, etc. Even religions that are often presented as less absolute (like, say, Buddhism) really aren’t because they are describing reality in a way that is mutually exclusive from the Muslim view of reality or the Jewish view or the Christian view. All of the things can’t be true simultaneously. So no, I don’t agree that it’s disrespectful to believe that your religion is true.
I have no idea what you mean here. What Christian has the right to make a decision about a Jewish person’s faith/belief system/religion? Even historically, when Christians have heavily persecuted Jews, they weren’t actually making decisions for what Jews believed. (Though they may have forced Jews to say certain things on pain of death, they couldn’t actually control what was in their hearts and minds.) I get that marginalization and persecution are disrespectful (to put it mildly), but that’s not what’s happening with the LDS “baptisms.”
This is wonderful, and you should be proud!
This is where you’re losing me, though. These LDS people are literally doing nothing to the deceased or their families. No one is digging up bodies and baptizing them. Like nothing is happening to the deceased. At all.
Mormonism isn’t Christianity.
So all of the earliest Christians, would you say that they stopped being Jews? What about the Jews that have believed Jesus was the messiah over the intervening 2000 years? Did they also stop being Jews? Doesn’t halakha mean anything/have any bearing?
There are non-trinitarian Christians, actually. (And I’m familiar with the Shema.)
This is true in the sense that the ritual was foreign to him and it was to a God/religion/church that was contrary to his beliefs. But it’s not definitionally accurate: “pagan - a person who is not religious or whose religion is not Judaism, Islam, or especially Christianity.”
Did those people (like your great aunt) renounce Judaism/stop being Jewish? Because I can promise you that there have been Jews who haven’t stop following the law merely because of their view of Jesus as messiah.
Again, isn’t this pretty foundational view that most/all religions hold? Also, I disagree that believing that one religion is truth means that you automatically believe that other people are inferior. Do you believe that people who follow other religions are inferior to Jews?
Well, if you can circumcise them in absentia via a meaningless ceremony that does nothing to anyone, have at it! (Although, they do physically baptize a person as a stand-in for the deceased. Not sure how that would work out for the stand-in circumcise-ee…)
TomMyers_AComedian@reddit
I don't understand why anyone would give a fuck about some cooks in Utah baptizing them after they died. It would only matter if A) the Mormons are actually right about everything, and B) Knowing that the Mormon faith is right, you still would rather be eternally damned than go to heaven.
Sandi375@reddit
This is alarming. And creepy AF.
Ambiti0nZ-@reddit
Yeah, that's one of the more dubious practices which, honestly, breaches on cultural heresy. I think they also baptized Elvis and used to do so regularly.
Alas, baptism isn't prelytism if you wanted to draw a parallel with this statement. Can't convert the dead, especially against their will (since they can't consent anymore), and definitely not via some verbal baptism. That's just their delusion. They have a bunch of other whacky beliefs. They've pushed against some, but not enough. They're still very racist in many ways. And bigoted. And culturally offensive.
KingDarius89@reddit
Seriously, dude? It's very obvious that it's because you're calling them cults. Just as obvious as your trolling.
Ambiti0nZ-@reddit
I'm not trolling, but, given that you think I am, I gather that the only definition of cult that you're aware of is the vernacularly used one to refer to small sects generally frowned upon.
KingDarius89@reddit
I'm aware that there are other definitions. I'm also aware that cult is widely considered to have negative connotations. As is literally everyone else.
I'm an atheist, by the way, I just don't see the point in being a dick about it.
Ambiti0nZ-@reddit
Well, if you are aware that there are other meanings to the term, might as well put in a little effort to read more critically before accusing someone of trolling just cause one widespread meaning has a negative connotation. I'm talking academically here, and that should have been obvious when I mentioned entire religions like Christianity, Islam, ans Baha'i.
KingDarius89@reddit
You're being deliberately obtuse now.
DMRM_Clean@reddit
what branch was he and did they fallow the LDS's official president.
Maryfarrell642@reddit
I mean I would say that about all
Sea2Chi@reddit
There is soooo much hypocrisy as well. A friends little sister was raped by two "good LDS boys". The cops in the small town said there was no evidence. The school said they'd look into it and did nothing and she was ostracized for being promiscuous while people also insisted that it never happened because they were "good kids." So she was a slut for making the accusation because she clearly wanted it, but they never touched her because they were involved with the church and youth group and had morals, unlike her.
hellofellowcello@reddit
I know of many cases where a girl was raped on BYU campus. When reported, the girl is usually kicked out of school (check out their "honor code") while the guy gets away with it. Happens again and again.
Free_Ad_9112@reddit
That happens in Christian colleges too (non-Mormon).
lovetrashtv@reddit
This kinda shit happens in all churches . Seems like a lot of the leaders and head of the church are the main perps/rapists too.
Sandi375@reddit
That is horrifying.
Artist850@reddit
There are tons of stories like this over on r/exmormon. They often deny the victim the sacrament/ communion as well. It's tantamount to public humiliation. Ostracism would be more kind.
dreibel@reddit
there's an entire website dedicated to stories of sexual abuse perpetrated in the So-Called Church.
floodlit.org
Artist850@reddit
I'm aware. I've been considering volunteering for them. They're hundreds of cases behind.
dammitijustwantmemes@reddit
And insanely common for Mormon girls.
Rasp_Berry_Pie@reddit
Small towns can get away with so much shit and it is very scary.
Like when you’re so isolated like that and the people hurting you are in charge you get a lot of people who turn a blind eye.
Sometimes they don’t care and other times they’re looking out for themselves. Like if any of her female friends stood up for her then you know they’d be next on those boys list to assault and shame. It’s so horrible and can make you feel helpless
Impressive_Bison4675@reddit
Idk what happened there but members marry non members all the time and they’re not kicked out of the church. That literally doesn’t happen it doesn’t make any sense since literally all people are invited to go to church
agiamba@reddit
That sounds like the father was the asshole. That's not something excommunicatiin worthy
hellofellowcello@reddit
It's called love-bombing. And the moment you get baptized, it's like you no longer exist.
justsomeplainmeadows@reddit
That's coming from a limited perspective. Mormons certainly do suffer from having some zealots in their numbers, but that's hardly the norm. I've known many Mormons who actively hang out with and love their non-mormon friends. And it snot on about conversions. I was in NC when a hurricane hit and we had massive flooding inland. The Mormon Helping Hands were there to help clean up. No conversion talk or anything. Just cleaning. I'm sorry you've dealt with some of the worse, zealot Mormons, but my experience has been the opposite
triskelizard@reddit
Nice ≠ kind
Rasp_Berry_Pie@reddit
Exactly! when trying to convert me they would say such nice things and outright contradict their own beliefs just to get me to come to church. You know they’re doing whatever they can to get you there and then “fix” you
KingDarius89@reddit
...my grandmother wasn't kicked out when she married my Roman Catholic grandfather.
Sandi375@reddit
I edited for clarity. His father was the bishop, and he couldn't handle the out of faith marriage because my bff refused to convert. He listed all the things my friend's husband had done that were considered wrong (according to church teachings)and had him ex-communicated. When we discuss it, we understand that was the catalyst. I fixed for clarity, as what I wrote does imply that's the only reason.
Sandi375@reddit
Ok
davevine@reddit
The LDS church never has and never will kick anyone out for not marrying in the faith. What your friend told you is a load of horseshit.
Sandi375@reddit
Not really. I edited for clarity. His father was the bishop, and he couldn't handle the out of faith marriage because my bff refused to convert. He listed all the things my friend's husband had done that were considered wrong (according to church teachings)and had him ex-communicated. When we discuss it, we understand that was the catalyst. I fixed for clarity, as it does imply that's the only reason.
Sandi375@reddit
OK. You know better than I do.
girlbrush42@reddit
They do know better than you. I was born into the LDS church and married an atheist, and he was welcomed. I’m no longer practicing for myriad other reasons, but not because I was kicked out.
Your friend’s husband was kicked out for other reasons.
supperoni@reddit
thank you for your example. as a practicing mormon, i’ve never known for people to be kicked out because they married someone of another faith
indiefolkfan@reddit
I dunno about all of them. I work with two Mormons. One of which I've worked with for over a year. Both have always been super nice and their religion only came up in conversation once because they both mentioned that they went to Brigham Young and so I casually asked if they were LDS. I'll also say I live in an area where Mormons are very much a minority.
FrenchFreedom888@reddit
Mormons acts nicer and don't talk about the weirder sides of their belief as much when they are at the minority in an area
hellofellowcello@reddit
They got caught recently and were fined by the SEC for hiding BILLIONS of dollars for over 3 decades.
DueYogurt9@reddit
Are you from Idaho?
bananapanqueques@reddit
Here meaning? Your city/county/state?
ColossusOfChoads@reddit
They have a lot of weight in the Las Vegas area and have for a long time, they're just kind of behind-the-scenes. They're also a big deal in certain areas of Southern California, including some of the suburban outer reaches of Los Angeles County.
I'm guessing a lot of that stems from them being some of the very first white landowners in those particular regions.
TychaBrahe@reddit
Basically, the people who hike to Salt Lake City and didn't like it kept going over what is now the 15 and wound up in Upland, California. The western end of San Bernardino county is just crawling with offbrand Christians. There's a huge JW movement there, the Mormons are all over the place and Loma Linda, including the hospital, is straight up SDA. Their entire food service set up is vegetarian.
CountessofDarkness@reddit
Can't get a decent cup of coffee there. Make sure you bring your Starbucks!
DudleyDoesMath@reddit
Also Arizona and Idaho.
seatownquilt-N-plant@reddit
Proposition 8, known informally as Prop 8, was a California ballot proposition and a state constitutional amendment intended to ban same-sex marriage; it passed in the November 2008 California state elections and was later overturned in court.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints^([80])^([81])^([82]) (LDS Church) also publicly supported the proposition. The First Presidency of the church announced its support for Proposition 8 in a letter intended to be read in every congregation in California. In this letter, church members were encouraged to "do all you can to support the proposed constitutional amendment by donating of your means and time".^([80]) The church produced and broadcast to its congregations a program describing the support of the Proposition, and describing the timeline it proposes for what it describes as grassroots efforts to support the Proposition.^([83]) Local church leaders set organizational and monetary goals for their membership—sometimes quite specific—to fulfill this call.^([84])^([85]) The response of church members to their leadership's appeals to donate money and volunteer time was very supportive,^([86]) such that Latter-day Saints provided a significant source for financial donations in support of the proposition, both inside and outside the State of California.^([87]) LDS members contributed over $20 million,^([88]) about 45% of out-of-state contributions to ProtectMarriage.com came from Utah, over three times more than any other state.^([89]) ProtectMarriage, the official proponent of Proposition 8, estimates that about half the donations they received came from Mormon sources, and that LDS church members made up somewhere between 80% and 90% of the volunteers for early door-to-door canvassing.^([90])
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_California_Proposition_8
MagicWalrusO_o@reddit
I meant the Western US in general. Organized religion has very little political or organizational influence in general in the West (even most churches tend to operate pretty independently) so 'most influential' is a lower bar compared to the South for example.
FrenchFreedom888@reddit
Happy Cake Day bro
therealgookachu@reddit
“Integrity”, lawl. Mormons are the biggest proponents of MLMs and other pyramid scams. One of the attorneys I work with has a slew of clients that are suing because of the shenanigans surrounding MLMs. And by “shenanigans” I mean literal hookers, orgies, and blow.
BookLuvr7@reddit
I agree the Evangelicals have REALLY gone south in the past 10 years. I watched them go from earnest, Jesus loving people to culty xenophobic Christian nationalists. It was sad. I was at a church like that and left as soon as they started preaching against tolerance and welcoming the stranger.
vpi6@reddit
I was in a church like that too and I literally said to my non-religious friends “Christians would never tolerate someone like Trump.” I really thought it would be the moment American Evangelicals proved they weren’t blind Republicans and stood behind their moral convictions.
I’m still bitter.
Karnakite@reddit
Victorian Scientology, basically.
In function, a cult based on bullshit. But at the same time, most Americans are really forgiving of other people’s beliefs, so long as they don’t trample on their own. If you believe a guy at the bus station who told you to come every week and give him $500 each time so he could buy you a spot in heaven (but only if you shaved all your head hair into a single long tendril at the top of your head), we’d think you’re weird and definitely rather gullible, but we also wouldn’t really care as long as you were a decent person. Getting obsessed about what others believe is a faux pas; you should just be concerned with how they act.
Tl;dr - outside of the Western states, most people don’t have a high opinion of Mormonism itself, but aren’t really bothered by Mormons.
voidcritter@reddit
Unless you're super religious or in Utah, I feel like most Americans don't think about Mormons at all most of the time. When we're reminded of their existence it's just like "oh it's another flavor of religious weirdos"
yourpaleblueeyes@reddit
Are these the ones who rent out their uteruses?
zacandahalf@reddit
Within the Jewish American community we have a saying: “God created Mormons so Christians could know how Jews feel”
kangareagle@reddit
This Jewish American has never heard that saying, and I’m not even sure that I know what it’s supposed to mean.
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
I think it means because Christianity is essentially an offshoot of Judaism and LDS is an offshoot of Christianity. And neither offshoot is regarded super well by the original. Like both original groups are like “you are not a part of us.”
JagneStormskull@reddit
No, because Muhammad didn't write the Quran as a sequel to the Christian Bible, he wrote it as a stand-alone thing. Muslims also don't claim to be the true Israelites (like hardcore supercessionist Christians) or true Christians. Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon as a sequel to the Christian Bible. Mormons claim to be both the true Israelites and the true Christians.
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
That’s all true.
I guess I was thinking because Islam views Jesus as a prophet and the Israelite prophets as prophets. And while they believe that the Quran is the final true revelation from God, they also see Christianity and Judaism as earlier and true (though polluted) revelations from God.
zacandahalf@reddit
Supersessionism & theological appropriation
Wooden_Airport6331@reddit
What doesn’t this even mean? I’m Jewish and have never heard this in my life.
JagneStormskull@reddit
Christians created the so-called "New Testament" and said it supercedes Tanakh. Joseph Smith created the Book of Mormon and said it supercedes the Christian Bible.
NewbombTurk@reddit
It's a reference to Christianity as Jewish fan fiction, while Mormonism is Christian fan fiction.
z7r1k3@reddit
I'm assuming it means that the Book of Mormon is to non-Mormon Christian faiths what the New Testament is to Jews.
coniferdamacy@reddit
Mormonism sees Christianity as the old and corrupted version of God's true religion, just as Christians see Judaism as something broken that Jesus had to replace with Christianity.
Strangely, Mormons consider themselves to be adopted into the House of Israel, and they sometimes refer to outsiders as Gentiles. Yes, in Utah a Jew can be called a Gentile by Mormons.
Relevant_Elevator190@reddit
In hardcore Mormon belief, even you are a Gentile.
Gex2-EnterTheGecko@reddit
I suppose it's comparing how Christians view Jesus as a messiah to how Mormons view Joseph Smith as a prophet? Idk man all this religious shit is weird to me.
abbot_x@reddit
It's just a weird saying because historically that is how Christians thought about Islam.
_scrambled_egg_@reddit
At least Jesus was regarded as an all-around cool guy. Mormons believe some next level stuff with the polygamy and the men inheriting their own planet to populate insanity....
zacandahalf@reddit
Well not the cool guy parts, but from a Jewish perspective a zombie who is also the son of God can feel like planetary inheritance level of insanity (not that the Tanakh doesn’t have things that are also unbelievably ridiculous from many perspectives, but you get my point)
youandyourwig@reddit
That’s a truly bizarre comparison.
WildBoy-72@reddit
Ever since I heard of the phenomenon at Brigham Young University known as "armpit crabs," I couldn't deal with Mormons anymore.
BuildingBridges23@reddit
Exmormon…Never heard of that…not sure I want to know…
WildBoy-72@reddit
Wise decision
TruthOdd6164@reddit
Not a fan of the LDS Church. Then again, I’m not a fan of any Church. Religion is a real shit stain on humanity
BuildingBridges23@reddit
Exmormon….born into it. The religion is weird and very problematic. Very high demand…it becomes peoples whole personality sometimes. Mormons themselves are ‘yes’ people and seem kindof fake but overall nice.
GlumFaithlessness392@reddit
I think Mormons are a great people that really have it figured out when it comes to really ensuring their members have community support on an emotional level, economic and logistical level. I think the average person thinks that they are a cult and that they are crazy.
tn00bz@reddit
I grew up in California, but my grade school was across the street from a Mormon church and we had a handful of Mormons at school. In general, they're very nice people, but have some absolutely whacky beliefs. It's surprising that so many people don't see the flaws it and can make them seem quite gullible. They give up a lot of normal stuff to be in the church (like coffee, but not caffine). But I'm not sure how many are actually so devout... I used to hook up with a Mormon girl and she was wild!
Due_Signature_5497@reddit
Generally good but misguided people.
machagogo@reddit
Any I have met who I specifically know were Morman have been nice people. A few were a bit "odd" for me to spend much time with, but otherwise fine.
I have also met plenty of other people from Utah as I used to business there, some were awesome, some were assholes, some were normal.
No idea if they were Mormon, Presbyterian, Catholic, Jewish, agnostic, or whatever.
YimmyGhey@reddit
You're right about the odd factor. But never in a malicious way in my personal experience.
I worked at a summer camp years ago and once a year the Mormon troop would come up during our weekly changeovers Saturdays.
Usually those precious 24 hrs every week were meant for teenaged debauchery, like non-motorized watercraft demolition derbies on the lake while under the influence of cheap beer, pot and mushrooms, but, noooooo. They'd get an early check-in because of the observe-Sundays-including-no-travel schtick. TBF they minded their own business, occasionally offered the staff a meal without it being a salespitch of any sort, etc.
diabolicvirgo@reddit
as a non religious person, please, PLEASE explain magic church underwear
TruckADuck42@reddit
It's not as weird as it sounds. They have ceremonial garments they wear when they go to temple once a month. Its all their clothes, not just underwear. And they don't actually believe it has magic powers or some shit, it's ceremonial, like a priest's habit or an acolyte robe in more mainstream Christianity.
swoopy17@reddit
It's as weird as it sounds.
Flowtac@reddit
Almost right, but not exactly. When we go to the Temple, we make promises to God. We promise to remember these promises throughout our lives. One of the ways we remember them is by wearing underwear called garments, basically a white undershirt and white boxers. We wear these underneath our regular clothing. We don't believe they have magical powers at all, they're just a daily reminder of our promises to the Lord. It's a similar idea to what TruckADuck42 said about it being like a priest's habit or an acolyte robe. The difference is that we work regular jobs so it would be entirely impractical for us to wear special robes all the time
Artist850@reddit
Except the freemason symbols on them that you're supposed to cut off when disposing of them and not talk about. But yeah, mostly it's just a symbol of promises made to God.
Flowtac@reddit
The symbols on the garments help us remember the promises we have made. Why is it weird to have a symbol on clothing that represent your promises when the entire point of the clothing is to represent and help you remember said promises?
Artist850@reddit
It's not except that so much of it was taken from freemasonry. Even the aprons aren't original. The temple names aren't divinely inspired - they're based on the calendar. If you want a certain name, just go through on the right day.
Flowtac@reddit
While I agree that some of the symbols are similar to the Freemasons, there are differences in the symbols, both in how they look and what they represent. For example, you brought up the apron. While aprons are used in the Freemasons and the Temple, the Freemasons' apron represents purity and working hard. The apron in the Temple represents the fall of Adam and is a reminder of ancient priests in the Old Testament who also wore an apron called an ephod when they worshipped in their Temple.
The receiving a new name is representative of us becoming new creatures before God as we make promises to him. I don't see an issue at all with the names being given on a schedule. It's all symbolic anyway, and it's not like we use those names ever in normal life
Artist850@reddit
No, you're not allowed to. Among a long list of other things you're not allowed to do.
lovmi2byz@reddit
So similar to a Jewish Tzizit that some Jewish men and boys wear? The tassels are to remind them of the commandments and God
Flowtac@reddit
Yes, exactly
Tamihera@reddit
Women have to wear the garments under their bras and underwear. I gather there are issues with chafing and YIs, which would normally make me feel devout, but hey, maybe it’s a hairshirt thing?
Flowtac@reddit
Again, almost right, but not quite. We can choose whether to wear a bra over or under the garment. I prefer over. I never have to deal with itchy bras again! Garment bottoms are used in place of regular underwear, although some of us do use regular underwear when we're on our monthly cycle, as it's easier to secure menstrual pads to regular underwear (we can use a menstrual cup and tampons if we would prefer, of course). As for chafing, one of the main reasons I love garment bottoms is that they are longer than regular underwear, so I don't get chafing at all due to having cloth where my legs rub when I walk. There are some women who are more sensitive and get UTIs or yeast infections if they wear the garment bottoms, so they just wear normal underwear all the time. I personally have never had this problem, and most people I know do not have issues with them.
Garments are made from several different materials and you can choose whichever ones you want. There are cotton, polyester, a cotton-polyester blend, a synthetic blend called drylux, and silk garments. There are several different styles that can be bought including nursing and pregnancy garments. I've worn them now for over a dozen years, and they're really quite comfortable. The cotton ones are my favorite
Tamihera@reddit
I guess the few Mormon friends I have who talk about these things are in the “it makes me so miserable” category. Two of them are also struggling with having gay kids they love in a church which hates them, so that’s fun for them too.
Flowtac@reddit
I'm sorry they have a difficult time with garments.
For the record, the church does not hate gay people
Tamihera@reddit
They haven’t been funding anti-LGQT political campaigns? Gay folks can get temple recommends and get married to each other? That’s great news, guess I missed it.
Flowtac@reddit
To my knowledge, there has been no support of any kind of anti LGBT political campaigns since 2008 in California with Prop 8. In fact, the church supported a bill in Utah in 2015 that supported LGBT.
You can be gay and have a table recommend. I have 4 family members who are gay and who currently hold one. They cannot be in gay relationships and hold a Temple recommend, this is true, but this is not limited to gay people. You also cannot be a straight person and be having sex outside of wedlock and hold a Temple recommend.
The members I know are loving and welcoming to the LGBT community. Just because someone disagrees with a lifestyle does not mean that they hate the person. For example, I guarantee you probably disagree with my lifestyle since you're not a member yourself, but I also guarantee you don't hate me. Hate and disagreement are not the same thing
nerdycarguy18@reddit
Tell me more about these lake demolition derbies
YimmyGhey@reddit
Lol we'd call it "pirates" but that would've made it sound weirder. The property had two of its own lakes so we'd make good use of them. Basically we'd just do dumb stuff like crash sailboats into each other, practice capsizing/t-rescue drills, stuff like that. Bored boy scouts in the woods, I guess haha
TingTingAki@reddit
Agree with you about them being nice. I know several through work, they are nice and don’t drink, seem to marry at a younger age than others. Also know a handful who don’t belong to the church any more. Plus a lady that lives nearby that converted from Judaism to LDS, which I had never heard of before. There are groups that have formed that you learn about in the news that are very different than regular LDS, they have a more isolated community, some practice polygamy. Most of us wouldn’t know these folks.
USNWoodWork@reddit
I’ve heard all the crazy stories, but every Mormon I’ve met in the flesh has been solid as a minimum.
cardizemdealer@reddit
It's a weird, dangerous cult.
tTomalicious@reddit
My church taught me they are a cult and if you follow them you are following Satan to hell. But they are nice people.
dfgyrdfhhrdhfr@reddit
Me/my opinion only. A bs hustle for some guy to bang extra women with out listening to his wife bitch about it. Almost as silly as the religion I was born into, force fed till I could reason and logic towards my own decision. As for currently, the same as any other. The believers range from quiet, staid friendly folks to the thinklikeme, verbose, and quite obnoxious like any other belief system.
MurderMan2@reddit
Their beliefs are a little weird but every Mormon I’ve ever met is a solid person.
Wide_Wrongdoer4422@reddit
Weird desert cult with money and violent people.
Psychological_Roof85@reddit
Dum dum dum dum dum
Charlotte_Martel77@reddit
Thoughts on Mormons? Incredibly nice people. I have never met a mean or even indifferent one. Lovely families. On their theology? Beyond mental. Even by Biblical standards, it contradicts key elements within Christianity, violates Galatians 1:8-9, was founded by a convicted con man, and essentially makes a cult out of being an American. I seriously can't understand how they get converts outside of the US, but somehow, they do.
HeyDrGhost@reddit
I have been summoned. I used to be a very active of the church, but am now a more non-denominational Christian. I have my gripes with the religion I grew up with and genuinely loved. But there are some shady things and a lot of members are holier than thou and put themselves on passive-aggressive pedestals for simply being a part of "The one true church" But they are mostly nice people who really do mean well, minus the ones from Utah county (I'm joking of course)
Metroid_cat1995@reddit
I live in Illinois and I don't know how common it is to see Mormons around specifically central Illinois near Champaign and Decatur. But my mom and I have met two sets of Mormons. There were like two dudes that came over to our old apartment near lake of the woods and they kept coming and coming And my mom and I had to hide in her bedroom so they didn't see us. And then a few years later we had a couple of other women who came over because my stepdad was an asshole and he pretty much sent my mom and I a couple of Mormons Try to check up on us or something to that effect. He was a narcissist. But of course the two women were nice but the two dudes were kind of creepy looking back. And their naming conventions are dare I say interesting.
Maryfarrell642@reddit
I have several friends who are ex Mormons – they left when they came out – I don't think the Mormons are all that keen on the LGBTQ community according to my ex Mormon friends. They are very polite even after leaving the church or being excommunicated in a couple of cases. One of my friends used to live in a part of my house and the missionary boys still come by every so often looking for her
eodchop@reddit
Brainwashed. Cult.
Maryfarrell642@reddit
No different than any of the other ones trying to enforce their beliefs on everybody else
eyetracker@reddit
Flair checks out
goblin_hipster@reddit
I think the general view is "a little strange, but otherwise harmless." I've probably met plenty and just hadn't known. I knew a guy in high school who was Mormon. He was just a normal guy 🤷🏻♂️
rhoadsalive@reddit
They aren’t that harmless though. Many people who spent a long time in a cult like this, which was literally founded by a charlatan, suffer severe trauma and often have to deal with mental health issues for the rest of their lives.
The only reason why it’s accepted is because it’s a “Christian”, mainly white people religion with lots of money and influence.
RickySlayer9@reddit
As a Christian, only Mormons view themselves as Christian. We see them as a cult.
Tacoshortage@reddit
The Romans used to call that crazy Jew Carpenter and his band of forgiveness zealots a cult as well.
Maryfarrell642@reddit
look what they've turned into - I really wouldn't consider any of his self proclaimed followers these days to be a band of forgiveness
vim_deezel@reddit
Jesus was just one of -many- dudes at the time claiming to be messianic. The Romans were really fking over the Jews and they were really hoping for a savior especially the most downtrodden.
RupeThereItIs@reddit
As a non religious person, your very much the pot calling the kettle black.
It would be humorous if it wasn't so dangerous.
mothwhimsy@reddit
As another nonreligious person. While this is technically true, Mormonism is worse, full stop. It's dangerous to say otherwise
Wermys@reddit
Disagree. I tend to find Mormons will actually try to do what they preach. And not hide behind some false facade instead. Dealing with mormons for over a decade in Utah and then living in an area with a high amount of religious people here in Minnesota gives me a different POV. Best way to describe it is to look at how efficient the state government is in Utah comparing that to a state like Alabama, Missisippi or even Texas in dollar efficiency. By and large Mormons are infinitely more reliable to me. And most people are only exposed to missionaries and don't really deal with a lot of mormons in general unless you are in the west.
RupeThereItIs@reddit
I don't think your paying attention to the political realities of this country, if you think that's the case.
"Full stop"
Madame_Kitsune98@reddit
Oh, bless your heart.
The difference between the Church of Jesus Christ and the Latter Day Saints and the evangelicals?
The Mormons are organized. The evangelicals think they are, and sure, some megachurches (think Calvary Chapel, if you’re from Southern California, you know) have organized very well. But by and large, they spend too much time infighting. The Mormons are behind the scenes, monetizing the worst of conservative politics. Because they can afford to do so. Evangelicals are just loud.
Just remember - money talks, wealth whispers.
mothwhimsy@reddit
I don't think you've heard enough ex Mormons speak. And your assumption is unfounded and incorrect.
vim_deezel@reddit
I see virtually all christians as a cult. Why is one sky daddy better than another?
doyathinkasaurus@reddit
Jewish joke:
Q: Why did God invent Mormons?
A: So Christians would know how Jews feel
RickySlayer9@reddit
You may think so, but there’s agency to leave in traditional Christianity, which is where I think the major difference is
Realtrain@reddit
It's technically not Christian though, since it doesn't adhere to the Nicene Creed
beans8414@reddit
100%. Sidebar, but the Southern Baptist Convention technically doesn’t affirm the NC either even though they (mostly) follow the theology.
beans8414@reddit
Christians are probably the ones who dislike Mormons the most. They call themselves Christian and lead so many people astray with false doctrine, like denying that Jesus is the Son of God (literally 99.9% of being Christian).
steveofthejungle@reddit
A lot of people don’t think the Mormons are Christian. The ones in Utah here are in for a harsh awakening when they leave Utah and aren’t the dominant religion, and they see how the rest of conservative Christian America sees them
Impressive_Bison4675@reddit
Yeah except most of the members don’t live in Utah
Realtrain@reddit
When I worked in Utah briefly, some Mormon coworkers were shocked to hear that I'd never met a Mormon before. They were even more shocked to learn that my home state was less than 1% Mormon.
I chatted with one woman later who said they obviously know Mormons aren't as common outside of Utah, but she figured it was closer to 15-20% of people were still Mormon even in the Northeast for example.
steveofthejungle@reddit
I knew three Mormons in the town I grew up in. They were all one family
Wermys@reddit
Would definitely agree. A lot of them would look at these "christians" and go seriously wtf guys. The biggest difference to me is that Mormons practice what they preach when it comes to charity, in how government is run. They would throw an epic hissy fit in how a lot of "christian" areas are run and how inefficient they are.
goblin_hipster@reddit
Is the difference between a cult and a religion simply time?
theClanMcMutton@reddit
No, that would mean that there are no old cults and no new religions.
goblin_hipster@reddit
Well...I don't know... I'm kinda confused by that poster calling the Church of Latter-Day Saints a cult. Because it kind of sounds like "all religions are cults," which is an argument that some people make. So I'm trying to understand where the line is and what it means.
theClanMcMutton@reddit
I don't think there's a technical definition of "cult." It's completely colloquial, ranging from "any belief system I don't like," to "a belief system where members are exploited for the benefit of a charismatic leader," to "a small religion."
If you're specifically asking what OPs definition is, then I misunderstood you.
RealDaddyTodd@reddit
The BITE model is pretty damn close.
XelaNiba@reddit
Strictly speaking, I'd define LDS as a high-control group, not a cult.
RealDaddyTodd@reddit
Po-tay-to, po-tah-to
ColossusOfChoads@reddit
I suppose that documentation is one factor. We don't really know much about what the very earliest church fathers were doing. It's shrouded in the mists of time, which can be used to handwave away many questions that people may have. But on the other hand, we have a pretty good idea of the kinds of shenanigans that Joseph Smith or L. Ron Hubbard were up to.
Swampy1741@reddit
I think it’s mostly around how the Mormons act about people leaving. They’re often excluded socially from former friend and family groups.
I could leave my Lutheran church and any of the members or my friends and family wouldn’t treat me very differently. Mormons who leave don’t have that luxury.
goblin_hipster@reddit
Do people consider the Amish a cult? I didn't know Mormons did that.
Sandi375@reddit
Yes, they do
Existing_Charity_818@reddit
A fair amount of people do, yeah
Nottacod@reddit
When you make up stuff as the basis of your belief system and aggressively recruit.
RupeThereItIs@reddit
Like, idk, every other religion?
Nottacod@reddit
Some, but many do not aggressively recruit and or use threats/sanctions/ stalking when you leave.
RupeThereItIs@reddit
Some don't, some do.
The truly deeply faithful do, and they are trying to force their beliefs down the throats of the entire country via government takeover.
Nottacod@reddit
Those are evangelicals-in a class by themselves. They are not usually mainstream protestant. They are usually fundamentalists and they are awful.
LA_Nail_Clippers@reddit
The word 'cult' has so many different meanings to different people, it's hard to define it solidly.
I like the term 'high demand religion' to label things like Mormonism.
High demand religions have relatively rigid guidelines on how people conduct themselves in education, their job, personal and romantic relationships and lifestyles. Most high demand religions do not allow members to stray too far from the boundaries defined by the religion without suffering some kind of negative repercussions within the community. Another layer on high demand religions is secrecy - both on practices, but also with individuals and their standings/status in the religion.
Of course as a non religious person, it's all fairly hokey to me, but I can separate the difference between things like Mormonism and other Christian denominations in terms of their internal communities and practices and how much they exert control on their members, allowing me to label one as 'high demand' or in general parlance - a cult.
cryptoengineer@reddit
There's the BITE model which tries to systematize 'cultishness', measureing groups on control of Behavior, Information, Thoughts, and Emotions.
The LDS church scores pretty high on this. For example, there's control of information; Mormons are discouraged from reading any literature about the LDS church that isn't produced by the church. If you go over to r/exmormon, you'll find many ex-members shocked to find such basic and widely known info as that Joseph Smith had nearly 50 wives, some as young as 14. his polygamy is absent from official church literature.
vim_deezel@reddit
If you're in a relgious sect that claims to be the "one true religion" everything else is a cult, and it's the way most religions feel, especially the more hard core they get.
Seaforme@reddit
I'd say the biggest defining factor for religion vs cult is how people act when you leave. If people begin to shun you, cult-y. If the church you left actively begins to stalk and harass you, cult.
Logical_Calendar_526@reddit
I don’t think that is fair to say. If you take any group of size, some subset of that group are going to be bad people. This extends to any grouping of people, whether it is an organized group like a religion, political party, citizens of a state, etc. or an unorganized grouping like white males over the age of 18 or people who file their taxes the day they get them.
Judging an organized group based on the actions of is worst people is just prejudice.
young_trash3@reddit
It's less judging an organized group based upon the actions of the worse people, and more judging an organized group based upon the actions of the organization.
You can't "it's just a few bad apples" when the institution itself is so harmful. When the harm created in the organization is codified into the rules of the organization.
Logical_Calendar_526@reddit
Can't you say the same about most religions, though? Most of the holy books contain things that are just not acceptable in modern, first world countries. And so I don't seem like I am picking on religion, look at what the Chinese have done in their suppression of religion.
fleetiebelle@reddit
I'm always fascinated when stumbling on social media from ex-Mormons where they dish the dirt. I recently went down a rabbit hole on someone's instagram page where they were telling about their missionary trip to Central America. They were practically, if not fully, brainwashed and traumatized.
vim_deezel@reddit
You just described most Christian faiths. The only one I could stand to go to the services of were Unitarians, who are generally entirely harmless. Most churches (indeed most religions) have an ideology they want to force on the rest of the world for various values of "force"
Playful-Molasses-529@reddit
agree there is alot of sexual abuses & forced marriages
imthesqwid@reddit
He didn’t have horns??
Apprehensive-Ant2141@reddit
Cult. Just like the lot of them.
DMRM_Clean@reddit
there interesting folk but I think they get stereo typed way to much. Particularly for a group that had such heavy persecutions in the last 200 years.
LLCoolJeanLuc@reddit
Friendly on the surface, weird
Atheist_Alex_C@reddit
As an atheist American, I can say with confidence that most Americans think Mormons belong to the wrong cult, and that their own cult is the correct one.
SG-1701@reddit
Nice people in general. Not a Christian faith.
MountTuchanka@reddit
It definitely varies a lot based on where you live, out east we really dont have many and I didnt meet my first mormon until I went to Montana when I was 25
Im black and a lot of the black community is curious/weary about them since we wonder about their views on darker skin
In my limited experience mormons are very friendly people who usually keep to themselves. Ive had a few very awkward interactions with them before and looking back I wonder if I was the first black person they ever spoke to
TheSapoti@reddit
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I’ve read that Mormons don’t believe black people can go to heaven and that dark skin is a curse.
channingman@reddit
That's not correct.
TheSapoti@reddit
So what is the interpretation for the quote in the book of Mormonism that states, “the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them?”
Necessary-Elk-45@reddit
The original 1830 edition of the Book of Mormon was very clear that dark skin = bad. Joseph Smith specifically wrote the book to convince people that it was OK to take land from Indians because they were evil and cursed Lamanites, it was published two months before the passage of the Indian Removal Act and the start of the Trail of Tears. Many white folks who wanted to settle Indian land were afraid that the US government would respect the sovereignty of the "Five Civilized Tribes" of Georgia and set a precedent that Indian land was not to be taken. The Book of Mormon was a political text that provided religious justification against this.
The LDS church has occasionally updated the Book of Mormon to fix mistakes Joseph Smith made and to smooth out politically incorrect stuff. They are currently using the 1981 edition that made it sound like "Oh they had a dark spirit which was bad" and try to sound less like it was written by a racist 19th century white man.
Imagine if the Pope showed up one morning and said "Hey I was talking to God and he told me David was bi with Jonathan and some of Jesus' friends were lesbians so LGBT stuff is cool now. Everyone turn in your old Bibles and come get the new 2024 Edition that I patched." You can look up the 1830 edition text if you are interested in comparison to the 1981 edition, the LDS church has patched the Book of Mormon several times.
z7r1k3@reddit
As a member of the church, I'm not surprised if they made some minor corrections over the years to the BoM. I myself have caught a typo or two in the digital version.
However, I disagree with your premise that the leaders of the church have made it "more politically correct". To demonstrate this, I will copy and paste from the BoM currently in my Gospel Library app:
2 Nephi 5:21
I don't see anything PC here. However, I should also mention that this curse was never considered a blocker to coming unto Christ (there were times the Lamanites were more righteous than the Nephites), and we don't believe it represents a curse today. Just like we don't believe that the cursed land of the white Nephites is cursed anymore.
Also, 2 Nephi 36:33
I just googled a PDF of the 1830 edition, and these verses are worded the same (though with different verse numbers, being II Nephi 4:35 and II Nephi 11:114, respectively)
z7r1k3@reddit
Also,
I might gently ask, which version of the Bible are you referring to? The KJV, the NIV, the NKJV, the NRSV, the NSV, the NLT, etc.?
Our faith uses the KJV, but we recognize it isn't 100% translated correctly. For example, there's a very common consensus nowadays among Bible scholars (not just within our faith, but everywhere) that the hebrew word in the 10 commandments was "thou shalt not murder", not "thou shalt not kill".
Major-Dyel6090@reddit
Translations of a collection of books written in ancient languages may be updated in the face of scholarly work showing that another translation is a better representation of the original text. Updating a book that was written in English less than 200 years ago to conform to the politics of the day is a whole different level.
Necessary-Elk-45@reddit
The key verse is 2 Nephi 30:6 describing the redemption of the Lamanites. 1830 describes them as becoming "white" when redeemed, 1981 describes them as becoming "pure."
The term "white" was not symbolic at all, It was established doctrine until the 1978 decision that being a faithful member would cause a dark-colored person's skin to become lighter as they became more redeemed, with church leadership frequently reinforcing this idea until the decision. The 1981 edit is generally seen as a means to try and get rid of this idea.
Some places to look: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_teachings_on_skin_color
NYT article about it from 1981: https://www.nytimes.com/1981/10/01/us/mormons-altering-indian-prophecy.html
hellofellowcello@reddit
Lol. They call it "The Most Correct Book" but the BoM has had THOUSANDS of edits over the years
channingman@reddit
Everything in my reply is going to assume the Book of Mormon is based on an actual set of plates. If you don't believe that, just set that aside and understand that most Mormons do.
The writer of that verse was an Israelite who had come from his home with his family and set up in this new land. The lamanites were members of the covenant who chose to marry outside the covenant, and chose to live without the traditions and culture of their families. To the writer, Nephi, their dark skin was a mark of their failure to abide by the covenant and their curse was falling out of grace with Elohim.
It's also a common interpretation in my conversations at University with my religion professors that Nephi might have been a little bit racist.
Currently, people of all races are members of the church, and they are full participants in all ordinances and sacraments (to Mormons, "sacrament" = communion and "ordinances" = sacraments).
z7r1k3@reddit
As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (nicknamed "Mormons"), this is incorrect.
We do believe dark skin has been used as a curse by God in the past, as a way to signal to others that they are cursed (e.g. the mark of Cain when he killed Abel in the Bible, or the Lamanites in the Book of Mormon), however we also believe that it is not representative of a curse today, and in the BoM it even reads:
(2 Nephi 26:33)
It also talks about converting said Lamanites many times, so we don't believe dark skin has ever been an indicator that someone can't make it into heaven, just has historically been used as an indicator of a curse. At least as far as I know.
z7r1k3@reddit
Agh, that wasn't the 1830 edition that I compared against, but rather the 1990 "Independence Edition" from the Church of Christ (different faith from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, which is the largest and the one I belong to).
I'll find the actual 1830 edition and compare the wording.
qqweertyy@reddit
They used to believe this, but now black men get priesthood. The curse of dark skin is still all over their scriptures, but the official church position is against racism. They’ve also edited some passages of their holy books to be ever so slightly less racist looking.
Realtrain@reddit
Iirc, they got a message from God that their official position should change (coincidentally that was right when the federal government was threatening to remove their tax-exempt status over racism)
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
I’m always suspicious when a “word from the Lord” is so politically (and fiscally) convenient.
Realtrain@reddit
That's how Utah became a state too, actually. The Federal Government said they wouldn't give Utah Statehood due to the territory's polygamy laws.
Coincidentally enough, God told the mormon leaders right after that polygamy was no longer cool.
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
Oh, I’m aware. I’m in the camp that views LDS as a cult, though, so I pretty much look askance at all their stuff.
hellofellowcello@reddit
It was the same with polygamy in 1890. It was "revelation" but it was when they were getting into trouble with the government and were being denied statehood.
azjza@reddit
Or, as the Broadway musical "The Book of Mormon" put it:
"And I believe...that in 1979 God changed his mind about black people (black people!)!"
Silvercomplex68@reddit
You’re right
channingman@reddit
No, he isn't
jellybeans2024@reddit
You have a right to be wary. Racism is hard coded into their doctrine. There’s some scripture somewhere in the Book of Mormon that says god turned the skin dark of the Lamanites for their disobedience to God.
hellofellowcello@reddit
Black people not only weren't allowed to have the priesthood until 1978, they also couldn't go to the temple, which is essential to get into the highest heaven (Celestial Kingdom).
In the Book of Mormon, dark skin is referred to as a curse, and if you become a good person, you'll become "white and delightsome."
Joseph Smith had a black woman sealed to him in the afterlife as a slave. (He also married 14 year olds, and women who were already married.)
But you want to read some disgusting, racist shit? Look up what Brigham Young had to say about black people.
I was raised Mormon
Next_Sun_2002@reddit
Member here! There aren’t any “views” on darker skin. There are members on every continent. Yes there was a period of time when people with darker skin couldn’t hold certain positions but that changed a generation ago. This might give more insight than I can. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/race-and-the-priesthood?lang=eng
WideOpenEmpty@reddit
Don't know much about them but drove through Utah many and appreciated that their C stores always carried decaffeinated pop.
Their supplement industry is a scam tho.
toooldforthisshittt@reddit
Their beliefs seem wacky to me but their behavior is the best I have seen. They are fantastic coworkers and amazing family people.
Emory75068@reddit
Fake. If you want to learn of higher power, read mankinds oldest writings. The Sumerian tablets. Much older than the Bible and it’s stories are even copied by the Bible.
GlitteringGrocery605@reddit
I think their beliefs are strange but they are very upstanding people, good citizens, and great neighbors.
Maryfarrell642@reddit
I don't really find them any different than any other religion. I'm an atheist myself so I don't think any of it makes any sense but I don't find them better or worse than anybody else
ApocSurvivor713@reddit
I vehemently dislike the Mormom church, and I find it really odd how accepted they tend to be in American society.
MyUsername2459@reddit
I sometimes wonder how much better the world would be if nobody bought Joseph Smith's con act in the 1820's that he'd found a third testament of the Bible and that God had declared him a prophet.
If I could redact Joseph Smith, Charles Taze Russell, and L. Ron Hubbard from the timestream, I think the modern world would be a better place without the cults they founded.
Odd_Jellyfish_5710@reddit
I think these people mostly just influenced the US. If you are concerned with the state of the world I think the Haiti Indemnity Controversy, Berlin Conference, and ex-colonial nations hoarding wealth from the people they enslaved and colonised is ultimately the problem.
GarbageDolly@reddit
I feel the same way about Jesus, or maybe it’s Paul to blame.
vim_deezel@reddit
is it any worse than any other christian religions tho? I mean unitarians are pretty harmless but that's about it...
ColossusOfChoads@reddit
It's a continuum.
The Unitarian-Universalists would be at one extreme pole. I don't know who would be at the opposite pole. Westboro Baptist? World Church of the Creator or one of those other white nationalist congregations? The Peoples' Temple?
jcmib@reddit
I think other leaders would have filled in the void. There’s a lot of people that seek out an organization to conform to.
KaityKat117@reddit
I feel like the world as a whole wouldn't really change much at all if Mormonism hadn't been founded.
Sometimes, as exmos, or Utahns, it may be difficult to see that, but Mormonism is really not a big part of the world. The leadership likes to pretend it is, but it's really not.
A lot of individuals' lives would be greatly improved, for sure, but the world as a whole would be largely unchanged.
FoxglovePattycakes@reddit
Ellen G. White too. I watched the results of the SDA dysfunction play out between my devout grandparents and my sweet, wonderful mom. Too many families have suffered because of White's delusions.
arcinva@reddit
Let's not Mary Baker Eddy. Imagine how many deaths she has in her head.
Stein1071@reddit
But then Matt and Trey would lose an absolute shit ton of material and we wouldn't have The Book of Mormon, The Broadway Musical.
delightful_caprese@reddit
I can live with that
The_Law_of_Pizza@reddit
Meh.
That'd be like scooping out of a cup of piss from the toilet.
It's still filled with piss water.
beans8414@reddit
We didn’t use to, the reason they all live in Utah is because the government tried to eliminate them in the east and they ran away to the west.
thetrain23@reddit
They tend to be extremely friendly and nice people even though the beliefs are a bit wacky. That goes a long way towards societal acceptance.
Tamihera@reddit
There’s actually growing numbers of Mormons in the FBI and CIA since they can honestly attest to never trying drugs. That rules out a lot of US college graduates right there…
BM7-D7-GM7-Bb7-EbM7@reddit
Reddit has already has formed it's own opinion on religion and especially about certain religions in general.
But for what it's worth, I've never met a Mormon I didn't like and trust, at least in my interactions with them (mostly at work).
ColossusOfChoads@reddit
The 'wholesome' factor being dialed up to 11 also does a lot for PR.
montrevux@reddit
as someone that's not religious, i really just don't care what anyone's religious beliefs are. if we're talking about negative social impact, they don't even come close to matching evangelical christianity. caring about mormonism feels like one of those things that only other christians or ex-mormons do.
RelevantJackWhite@reddit
They waged a civil war against the US, I don't think the evangelicals can claim that yet
xfvh@reddit
That's a grotesque mischaracterization of the Mormon war. The broad strokes of it are that they were just fine living in Illinois and Missouri until they were literally chased out by mobs at gunpoint. Since the state government in Missouri enthusiastically participated, and the Illinois government and federal governments did nothing to help, they could do nothing but flee or get killed, and made a desperate journey across the entire continental US, most of them on foot with handcarts. The journey was brutal and had a high death toll.
So yes, they set up their own territory in Utah, since they had literally no other choice, and yes, they ruled it by Mormon law, since literally all of them were Mormons. But that wasn't why they fought the war. That happened when, after they became a territory of the US, joining on their own volition once serious contact was made, the President removed the governor they were happy with (the church leader) to put a man they had never met in his place, backed up by thousands of soldiers to install him by force. To them, this was a hostile takeover at gunpoint, and they had considerable reason to fear that they were about to go through another round of persecution until they were driven out. They'd tried running as far as they could and giving up all they owned, and it still wasn't enough to just be left alone.
But even then, with their backs to the wall and an army on the way, they didn't fight in the conventional sense. They ran a harassment campaign to slow the federal army down and inconvenience them while they packed up to leave yet again. In the end, cooler heads won out and war was averted without a single shot fired. The new governor took office.
Are there many details I'm leaving out? Yes, this is just the broadest of broad strokes, covering 30 years of history involving tens of thousands of people, but I hope you see why your characterization is so faulty.
olyfrijole@reddit
They've made a mess of Idaho.
KingDarius89@reddit
It's Idaho. How much damage could they have done?
olyfrijole@reddit
Idaho's a beautiful state with great recreation year round. If it wasn't so crammed with religious fundies, infantile nazis, and closeted homophobic politicians, it would be a damn-near perfect place to live.
ApocSurvivor713@reddit
As an ex-evangelical I agree, except Mormons are a lot more organized and intentional. Evangelicals and Mormons have very similar politics but there are a lot fewer schisms within Mormonism than within the amorphous blob that is "Evangelical Christianity" in America, at least from an outsider's perspective.
eyetracker@reddit
There were lots of schisms but many died out or are tiny now. The second biggest religion under the umbrella is basically a mainstream Protestant faith without any of the fringe beliefs of the small ones.
FeelTheWrath79@reddit
This guy goes in to a good detail of all the breaks that happened.
eyetracker@reddit
Naturally, Strangites are the cool ones.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit
They're quite thin on the ground over in your neck of the woods. It's a bit of a different story out west.
kogeliz@reddit
I tend to agree with this
KRISBONN@reddit
I can tell you we’re clearly not accepted much here on Reddit.
vim_deezel@reddit
that's because most of them aren't loud mouths and tend to keep their opinion to themselves, at least the ones I've worked with. Generally they've been pleasant to work with and good dependable friends and acquaintances unlike evangelicals I've known who thinks everyone should have to sit and listen to them proselytize.
RelevantJackWhite@reddit
Huh? They're quite literally known for going door to door constantly, preaching their religion
Mysteryman64@reddit
But they are generally pretty good about taking "No" for an answer.
RelevantJackWhite@reddit
They're the only religion I've had to turn away from my door, though. Nobody else comes to my door to tell me about their religion. They do not keep their religious views to themselves
Relevant_Elevator190@reddit
The JW's are a pain in the ass and won't go away.
alexopaedia@reddit
I've never come across a JW, and I have been proselytized to more times than I can count. I know there is a congregation of them in my city and a friend of mine in school had a mom was a JW but still never met any officially. Weird. I'll consider myself lucky.
HereComesTheVroom@reddit
All you have to do is say no and they will happily leave. I’ve never had one try to keep pushing after I said no.
RedAtomic@reddit
Some do, some don’t.
doyathinkasaurus@reddit
Mormons posthumously baptising Holocaust victims is truly sickening
https://apnews.com/article/992dd887f7b948d0a08055dff0363aa4
WanderingLost33@reddit
It's a cult.
captainstormy@reddit
Most religious people I know don't like Mormons.
People like me who aren't religious tend to not care about the fact they are Mormon.
Not_An_Ambulance@reddit
It feels like a mockery.
Even if we were to assume that Jesus was a cult leader and was basically lying about being a prophet… he was still obviously modernizing the religion, making it more inclusive, and advocating for peace.
Mormonism seems to mostly be about sex.
ab7af@reddit
"Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person's enemies will be those of his own household."
Gex2-EnterTheGecko@reddit
Idk where you got that idea, but that is not my experience at all lol
davevine@reddit
You clearly don't know any Mormons, do you? 😂
Gex2-EnterTheGecko@reddit
They basically run the entire state of Utah, so at this point there isn't much you can do. Also, I think american society tends to be pretty accepting, especially in terms of religion. Which is pretty ironic, since most religions aren't very accepting at all.
RupeThereItIs@reddit
I don't see the Mormon church as anydifferent then say the Catholic church, Baptists, or Evangelicals, etc, etc.
Powerful political organizations that control people through faith tend to be, problematic.
KingDarius89@reddit
Meh. I don't like organized religion in general.
zjaffee@reddit
Because they're model citizens, it simply isn't more complicated than that.
RegionFar2195@reddit
Would you say the same about Muslims?
Babelwasaninsidejob@reddit
What should we do? Shun them?
BroughtBagLunchSmart@reddit
To point out the absurdities of Mormonism you would also have to start pointing out the absurdities of Christianity and we cannot be having that, kids might start thinking for themselves.
gooberfaced@reddit
All I know about Mormons I learned from South Park- the golden plates are definitely ridiculous and IMO caused the loss of all credibility.
That and comments by Benji Schwimmer.
boulevardofdef@reddit
The part of the story where Joseph Smith's pal's skeptical wife steals part of the original Book of Mormon translation and Smith says he'll translate it from the golden plates again but it'll come out different because God is mad at him for letting the translation get stolen is definitely in the running for most farcical detail of any religion's origin.
The thing about Mormonism is that while all religions likely have similarly suspicious things happening at pivotal points in their history, Mormonism arose in modern times, when this stuff was easily documented and publicized.
QuercusSambucus@reddit
Didn't Mohammed claim to have met an angel in a cave, who gave him the Quran? And Moses was up on a mountain talking to God with nobody else around when he was given the Law?
Basically the type of same story as Joseph Smith with a few details changed.
JagneStormskull@reddit
According to the story, all the Israelites heard the voice of God at Sinai. Moses talked with God the longest, but all of them heard the divine voice.
ballrus_walsack@reddit
Can we trust people who claim to have received the word of god? I highly recommend The Satanic Verses. There’s a reason people were so upset. Plus it’s a fantastic book.
rjnd2828@reddit
Of course not. If it happened now we'd assume they're lying or crazy. Why would we think any different just because it happened in the past?
boulevardofdef@reddit
Yeah, same ideas, but my point is that those things happened in times that seem legendary from a modern lens. It's like the Greek Gods on Olympus. We have absolutely no idea how much of those stories is true and how much isn't. It's almost certain that Moses wasn't a real person. We know a lot about Mohammed's military exploits but almost everything we know about him as a human being is debatable. To a skeptic these stories sound shady, but are they shadier than "in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth"? It's all just stuff that happened or didn't happened in ancient times.
When Joseph Smith found the golden plates, the New York Post had already existed for 26 years. The US Postal Service was 52 years old. You can see why this stuff is bullshit a lot more clearly.
vim_deezel@reddit
why is it any more ridiculous than an old man carrying down "the law" from a mountain or "they saw jebus ascend into the sky!"
Electrical_Swing8166@reddit
You’re right, they’re all equally absurd
Free_Ad_9112@reddit
I am not Mormon but I believe everyone has freedom of religion in America. Mormons are good people and they are entitled to practice their faith regardless of other people's opinions.
Jake_Herr77@reddit
Good people (usually), whackadoodle book, have non caffeinated soft drinks available.
holdmyN95whileI@reddit
As a fairly religious, but not Orthodox, Jew I really don’t think much about them at all. I’ve lived and worked with them as a nurse in Provo during the pandemic and they’re usually incredibly nice and helpful, and probably more earnest about “living their values” than any other strain of evangelical Christianity I’ve interacted with. That being said, I’m not certain they’re Christians per se, but I’m not the expert. I’ve had them try to convert me, apparently I’m a valuable target because I’m Jewish; I can get them out of their depth very quickly and run circles around them if they’re not careful because I generally attempt to get an ambitious missionary to agree to discuss only from the Hebrew language Tanakh. I generally love a respectful religious debate, and Mormons, far more so than other evangelicals or JWs, are always game AND willing to admit challenges they encounter. My last thought is that I’ve never met so many closeted gay people in the 21st century as I did during my time in Utah.
Odd_Jellyfish_5710@reddit
I am not religious and from Alaska. Come from a Catholic family but, again, not religious myself.
Honestly I sometimes wonder how they are under the umbrella of Christianity since they seem to have diverged to a really large extent. They even have their own main religious text that I’m sure doesn’t include the materials from the Torah/Bible/Quran. Although they are probably technically Christian because of their beliefs in Jesus? I do think the average Catholic person I know thinks of them as separate in the way that Islam is separate. It’s still descended from the same thing and in the scheme of what exists among human religion/spiritualism still related.
I do think they are unfairly made fun in regards to the absurdity of their dogmas/mythos or whatever you want to call it. Christian religions claim Jesus rose from the dead- that’s pretty extreme and far fetched. The bar for what’s considered extreme is essentially on the ground at that point and the Mormons dogma is realistically not more far fetched than a man raising from the dead. It’s just less widely accepted and normalised in the west.
I do appreciate some things about them. They seem to value education. They all have to go on a mission (I don’t like missionaries), but this means they all have to live elsewhere, often a foreign country, for two years. Most people don’t get to live in a single place for that long. Being a tourist in a country is not the same as getting to live in a place. And they I think are required to do that. And not just to “desirable” places, but everywhere. So I don’t like the reason they are required to move, but I do appreciate that now the whole population has had this experience. I think that’s actually unique and interesting, just unfortunately the motivation is not good.
I think they are organised. Honestly if the Mormons created their own country made of Utah and the surrounding Mormon areas, I would bet people from nearby would be clamouring to enter while simultaneously being annoyed with their rules an mentality. The same way alot of people try to get into Switzerland but have disdain for the people who created the country they are trying to function in.
With that said I don’t agree with their values and lifestyle so would not live in a Mormon majority area ever. Just like I wouldn’t want to live in an area with alot of practicing people of any Abrahamic religion. Not a fan of them.
sharon1118@reddit
Extremely nice...generally Very gullible... always
kedziematthews@reddit
Strange beliefs, but they seem genuinely friendly. I’d take them over the Southern Baptists, who’s beliefs are also strange but who’s friendliness is obviously fake.
fencesitter42@reddit
One quarter have a negative view. 15% have a positive view. The majority is neutral. https://www.deseret.com/faith/2023/3/15/23638040/how-americans-view-latter-day-saints-mormons-pew-mormons/
The people who get really upset about Mormons tend to be highly religious Evangelicals and committed atheists.
MarauderCH@reddit
I can't keep one woman happy let alone five!
GroverGunn@reddit
I left the Mormon church. Has to threaten legal action to get them to stop stalking me. They’re weirdos.
glowgrl123@reddit
It’s a cult, but one I am fascinated by. In the age of social media SO MANY influencers are Mormon. Most of them don’t advertise that fact, but if you know what signs to look for (very young, attractive, wealthy couple, with 4 kids before the age of 30, living in Utah or Hawaii) it’s easy to spot, and then confirm if you scroll far enough back in their feeds.
itsthekumar@reddit
Any of the non-mainstream religious groups going to Hawaii kinda scares me.
I remember seeing one group advertising about the diversity of Polynesia. But they didn't say they were a Mormon group unless you really looked into it.
Impressive_Bison4675@reddit
Missionaries literally say who they are every time they meet someone that they want to talk about the church. We don’t hide who we are, why would I? I love it
itsthekumar@reddit
Because they know some people don't want to talk about church/religion so they say/do something else first and then bring out religion.
Impressive_Bison4675@reddit
They like to serve people. As a missionary o served hundreds and never expected anything in return. That was literally why I was a missionary. And there are a lot of people that want to talk about religion everywhere but not we don’t have some hidden motivation that we don’t talk about lol. Maybe you think that cause you do but we’re pretty simple
itsthekumar@reddit
Maybe you're not like that but some others are.
Impressive_Bison4675@reddit
No they aren’t. Know a lot of them better than you
itsthekumar@reddit
You don't know all missionaries lol.
Impressive_Bison4675@reddit
But you do?
itsthekumar@reddit
I never said all.
Impressive_Bison4675@reddit
Neither did I
itsthekumar@reddit
You implied it never happens lol. Maybe not in your circle or denomination but in others it does.
Impressive_Bison4675@reddit
Cause you say so. All right then
itsthekumar@reddit
Read our conversation again since you don't seem to understand lol
glowgrl123@reddit
Agreed. When I realized there was a BYU campus in Hawaii I was shook.
Ice278@reddit
Generally nice people, can be a bit “strange” but normally not in a negative way. Like dirty sodas and soaking.
As an atheist with no skin in the game, I would not describe their beliefs as Christian. They are quite theologically distinct.
2FistsInMyBHole@reddit
As a religion, I think it's batshit crazy.
As people, they are great.
I'm sure there is a lot going on behind the scenes that I dont see and that I would disagree with - but they make for great neighbors.
I would never live in a Mormon community, but I'm fine with Mormons being part of mine.
IthurielSpear@reddit
Ex Mormon here. They’re a cult
ColdenGorral-1@reddit
I think a lot of Americans don't really care who you worship, as long as your not trying to shove it down our throats.
huuaaang@reddit
It's basically a cult that is old enough to become a mostly legit religion. Joseph Smith was so obviously a con man. Even hearing the way Mormons tell it.
WE've basically written off Utah as Mormon country.
But they're nice folk.
bonorumemalorum@reddit
LDS are nice but that’s a recruitment technique. They’re usually clean and very “keeping up with the Jones’s” which I personally find a bit creepy but they put a lot of attention into appearances of their grounds/property and people. But thats all calculated and why there are so many Mormon influencers or trends on social media. They’re wildly rich and invest a lot of money into the community, farming, and ranching around them which isn’t entirely altruistic. But they seem to have a better approach to recruitment than other American Christian sects by appearing collected and more educated.
I have happily spoken to Mormons and invited them into my home to chat when they’re doing their missions, though, I am a mixed race, gay, atheist and with the TST. The young women are incredibly nice and I believe they actually have honest good intention on the ground level. The genuine happiness of playing with my special needs daughter so I can talk to allow them to share their message, kindness to help if I needed help at the house, welcoming to young families, inviting us to their church and offering to sit with us so we’re not nervous, etc etc. So kind and genuine it’s hard to say “no” because the people them selves are kind and genuine - not the church so much. The people seem genuinely interested in helping others and they make it easy to welcome in new people but beyond that the church itself is still a church. I don’t mind Mormons around and would rather have them as neighbors than any other Christian. The racism is very off putting, homophobia, mild antisemitism, and “everything conservative values” but that’s the U.S. now. They’re very calculated on upper level and it’s interesting to watch from a far. Very smart actually.
Check out r/utahinfluencerdrama for random drama in social media world.
Agitated-Hair-987@reddit
I've only met a handful of mormons but they were all exceptionally nice people. All in great shape and very polite with a BOATLOAD of kids. Their religion as a whole is kinda crazy though.
Dunamivora@reddit
As a Mormon (Member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints), definitely an interesting read through many of the comments.
The nice, charitable, and helpful characteristics are accurate. The doctrine creates those types of people, so that's a reflection on Mormonism.
It does have its oddities, but I think it gives a whole different perspective on life and reality.
And on that note I will just say we live in God's Matrix designed as a huge morality test.
robinson217@reddit
Nice, but weird. Best way to explain them. I've never met a rude, self-centered or cockey Mormon. They are genuine and sincere. But man is their belief system wackey.
Tj_0311@reddit
It's just another religion and religion is cancer. Nothing in the history of man has killed more people than religion and yet to this day billions of morons allow themselves to be slaves to it.
CautiousMessage3433@reddit
I don’t judge other religions. I am a non religious Christian.
mh985@reddit
Probably depends on where you live in America.
As a New Yorker, my impression of Mormons are super clean-cut families whose religion is a little fruity.
…That and women in Instagram with lots of very well-done plastic surgery whose lives seem suspiciously perfect—but you can tell they’re a bit unhinged.
caskey@reddit
I've met many, they are polite, conscientious people and good citizens.
deadlyhausfrau@reddit
They're smiley and talk a good game but are worse than the Catholic church at protecting sex offenders. They're also conversion therapy advocates.
And they spend money on lobbyists. Scary.
PuddingTea@reddit
Mormons are easy to get along with but their religion is actually very weird.
Mormons insist that they are Christians. But that’s hard to understand, because Mormons do not believe that Christ is God, which is sort of the main point.
NewbombTurk@reddit
Farm boy steeped in esoteric folk magic receives a vision from god, claims to find golden plates containing a record of ancient Jewish Christians in America. He starts a restoration church on principles of charismatic spiritual gifts. They get really into Biblical Hebrew, polygamy, and freemasonry. Church gets persecuted, farm boy is murdered, church flees to Utah and spends the next 150 years trying to rewrite its story and become just a really family focused Protestant church.
CharmingDagger@reddit
Gullible hypocrites. Believe in one of the most clearly bullshit origin stories. Stress family values but support Trump.
brinerbear@reddit
They are super friendly and the musical is hilarious.
simon_the_detective@reddit
FWIW, the Catholic Church doesn't consider Mormon's Christian.
lyndseymariee@reddit
My dad’s side of the family is Mormon, all of his siblings except for him. For me the religion is up there in terms of weirdness (hello baptizing dead people??) but they are literally the nicest folks you will ever meet. Always willing to lend a helping hand if you need it.
Tiny_Ear_61@reddit
They'll also stalk you for other reasons. About 27 (ish) years ago a group of missionaries came to my house and I talked with them for a good two or three hours. They had never heard my interpretations of the Bible before even though they were "trained to talk to Catholics". Unsurprisingly, they weren't prepared for a well-catechized Catholic convert who had spent the last several years explaining his decision to his friends and family.
A few weeks later, one of the missionaries called me to say he'd left the missionary work, and my exegesis of the Psalms was a major reason. I don't know if he left the Mormon Church altogether, but he was done spreading the teachings. In the quarter-century since then, no Mormon has ever knocked on my door.
GingerPinoy@reddit
Hi ex Mormon here who served a mission.
This absolutely didn't happen, I would bet my life on it. There are more holes here than a slice of swiss cheese.
No Mormon missionary is ever "trained to talk to a Catholic" that's complete bullshit.
Missionaries are extremely limited to how long they can stay at someone's house, so not 2-3 hours.
"Groups" of missionaries would never travel to someone's private home, it's done in pairs of 2s.
This is probably the biggest nonsense of the whole made up story. Mormon Missionaries talk to people all day everyday, you aren't special in any way shape or form
If this is actually true, it's purely a coincidence.
Mormonism is a cult, but this whole story is 100% bullshit
Tiny_Ear_61@reddit
Well I believe there were three, not two. I have no idea why there was an extra, but that particular day there was. I don't know specifics about what their training is, I just know that they are trained with many different responses based on who they're talking to and which way the conversation turns. There's nothing wrong with that, it's proper rhetorical training for spreading a message.
As for their ability to talk to people, I'm fully aware of that. But they were 19ish-year-old kids and I was about 26 at the time and had spent the last five years studying my new faith. And I converted after two years of study to consider entering the Episcopalian seminary. So I wasn't coming from the place of ignorance that most missionaries expect when they knock on a door. I was actually expecting a lively scriptural debate, but I was stunned at their profound ignorance of the Old Testament and basically started teaching a class.
MyUsername2459@reddit
You're doing the Lord's work.
Tiny_Ear_61@reddit
I think it also helped that I was raised high-church Episcopalian. When they objected to my Catholic Bible translation and insisted on the King James Bible, I walked over to the bookshelf and grabbed the one my grandmother gave me.
MyUsername2459@reddit
I'm high-church Episcopalian myself, but I wasn't raised it. I was raised Southern Baptist, I converted to the Episcopal Church in 2018.
If they insisted on the KJV, I'd respond by noting that it's an inaccurate translation that is both linguistically out-of-date because it relies on centuries-old meanings of complex terms that have drifted significantly since the 1600's, that ancient manuscripts discovered by archaeologists since the KJV was translated (such as the Dead Sea Scrolls) have given us better context on a number of passages to allow for better translation, and that no serious academic scholar of scripture considers the KJV to be a reputable translation for serious study.
If the NRSV isn't good enough for you, then your denomination isn't good enough for me.
If they're making their religion reliant on the KJV, then as far as I'm concerned, they're discrediting themselves.
I find the folks who think the KJV is some special, magical, God-ordained version of the Bible to be idolaters that aren't worth discussing.
shiny_xnaut@reddit
The insistence on the KJV despite its inaccuracies is a major part of why I left the church
MyUsername2459@reddit
Which denomination? The KJV is one specific translation from the early 17th century, so leaving all of Christianity over a Bible translation created over 1600 years after Christ's life, that most of Christianity has moved on from seems like an overreaction.
While some fundamentalist denominations rely on KJV-only, most denominations have moved on to other translations. (Non-KJV fundamentalists tend to go with the NIV, non-fundamentalists tend to go with the NRSV)
The KJV is historically notable for its major role in the development of the English language and its prominence in English-speaking culture for centuries, but it's NOT a good translation of the Bible and certainly not the standard in English-speaking Christianity in the 21st century.
shiny_xnaut@reddit
I meant the Mormon church specifically, sorry
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
Very apt criticism of KJV!
Great point! I always jokingly say, “Yes, because KJV is the version that Paul used 🙄.”
Kool_McKool@reddit
Yeah, my dad is one of those guys. I don't know what he gets out of all of it, but he believes the KJV is the best and all others are lesser than.
Push_the_button_Max@reddit
NRSV in the House!
Sorry, just finding myself amusing.
Tiny_Ear_61@reddit
I wasn't raised King James only, but I was definitely raised on the King James Bible. the Episcopal Church has changed a lot since the 80s.
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
Well done, sir!
BlazerFS231@reddit
My great aunt, a byzantine catholic, did the same. She would always welcome in LDS or JW missionaries, offer them food and drink, and happily converse with them about faith. I don't recall her ever describing a negative interaction. It wasn't a debate; it was an exercise in mutual understanding.
Kool_McKool@reddit
As a Lutheran, keep doing what you're doing brother. It's working just fine.
BigbunnyATK@reddit
I had the opposite. I love spirituality. I talked to two mormons for a few hours about my thoughts on spirituality, the reason we exist, everything. At the end, they just said, "so you want to convert?"
Waste of my time. Organized religion tends to be full of morons who think their way is best blindly. See Muslims, Mormons, Christians, Hindus, etc who will tell you to your face that their religion is the true one while having never considered any other religion.
It's sad because each of these religions can also be beautiful if followed thoughtfully. But at the end of the day, books written over a thousand years ago don't hold up well.
FrozenFrac@reddit
Based! I feel I've been put on a blacklist too, although my exMo mother (who I never even knew was Mormon since she's a devout Catholic) still gets missionaries coming by the house asking about her
jane7seven@reddit
I think I heard they actually keep a list of people who have refused to convert after being visited, so maybe you're on that list.
ballrus_walsack@reddit
You have been tagged as an antibody.
lovmi2byz@reddit
I remember missionaries coming by because my neighbor (a mormon) told them I just had a stillborn and could use some help at home. I'll give her credit that she told them not to prostylize to me cause I was Jewish.
They tried to anyway. During a very vulnerable time. They were nice and did help out around the house but the fact they tried to convert me during one of the worst time of my life left a bad taste in my mouth.
Sp4ceh0rse@reddit
We have a Mormon branch of the family and I agree with this take. It’s weirder than they let on, and even though they are all super nice there’s definitely an underlying judgmental attitude from the older folks toward those of us who drink coffee/drink alcohol/are not Mormon.
It’s quite secretive and exclusionary toward outsiders. My BIL is Mormon, by marriage, and my MIL and FIL (his parents) couldn’t go inside the temple for his wedding or for the baptisms of any of his kids.
channingman@reddit
The baptism one makes no sense. Non-members can go to baptisms.
Sp4ceh0rse@reddit
They wouldn’t let them inside the temple 🤷🏻♀️
channingman@reddit
Baptisms don't happen inside the temple - only baptisms by proxy for the dead.
Which, btw, those aren't us saying "these people are part of our church." It's us saying "everyone needs to be baptized to be saved, but they also need to choose it. This gives them the option to choose"
Mormons believe there will be a period of time following the resurrection but before final judgement where people will be given the opportunity to accept Christ and do the work of salvation.
Sp4ceh0rse@reddit
I wasn’t around for this so it’s all from my (very religious Christian, not Mormon) MIL who felt very excluded but whatever happened with the baptisms.
channingman@reddit
I'm sorry that happened. It's a worldwide church, and sometimes local churches will do things that aren't in line with the teachings. And sometimes people don't follow the teachings (case in point, Trump won in Utah).
That is awful that it happened, and it shouldn't have.
SkinkAttendant@reddit
A lot of Mormons hated trump just a little less than they hate the idea of voting blue. And it will probably happen again.
channingman@reddit
Which is so sad, because the religion preaches the virtues of social welfare and the evils of pride.
I think for a lot of Mormons, it's abortion over anything else. They believe existence precedes conception, and that the spirit (person) attaches to the body before birth. There's no doctrinal support for when that happens, but John the Baptist recognized Jesus while they both were in the womb.
coniferdamacy@reddit
Sounds like the BIL just wanted a convincing reason to uninvite his parents.
channingman@reddit
That's what I got from it.
lyndseymariee@reddit
Yes, the secretiveness is weird. You want people to convert but they can’t know everything until they are part of the church? Hard pass.
Nuttonbutton@reddit
Their kindness is self serving. They are kind because they want you to join.
rakfocus@reddit
As someone with family that is Mormon - not true at all. Most of them really are genuinely kind
pearlsbeforedogs@reddit
I have no problem with Mormons themselves, for the most part. They are people, like anyone else. I treat individuals with kindness and respect, and they overall tend to treat me the same way. I don't like their church and its teachings. Some teachings, like not drinking caffeine or alcohol, are whatever... that's a personal choice and if they follow that and feel good about it then good for them. Some teachings are beneficial, like doing good works in the community and being kind, though those things can be taught or performed without religion if an individual chooses to. And then there are the truly problematic ones, such as women not being allowed into "heaven" without a husband, and worse, the Mormon groups that push for child brides
But yeah, the individuals I have met and gotten along with seem to be genuinely good people trying their best in the world. Good people tend to have religion as a framework to help them shape and reinforce their goodness and have a community of support. Unfortunately, there are always individuals who are not good who will abuse that, but it is not the majority of them. The only issues I have with good people who happen to be Mormon, is that often they can't accept that there are bad people in their religion, and that's how things get out of hand and bad people hide among them so easily. And also the family pressure on their women to fall in line with a religion that so obviously dislikes them and views them as lesser.
SkinkAttendant@reddit
Men don't get to go to "heaven" without a wife either.
websterhamster@reddit
Some responses from a Latter-day Saint (acknowledging that Mormonism includes fringe sects as well):
Not a thing. There is no proscription of caffeine in our health code.
Not a thing in The Church of Christ. Perhaps a belief held by minority fringe groups.
Ick. Those minority fringe groups are not mainstream for a reason.
Again, not a thing in the Church of Christ. I'm sure some fringe sects believe this, though.
FrozenFrac@reddit
I was meeting with missionaries for over a year and unless you're arguing semantics, you 100% know about the Word of Wisdom that essentially says no coffee or tea
websterhamster@reddit
You are correct. The Word of Wisdom itself proscribes "hot drinks", which have been clarified to mean specifically coffee and tea. Caffeine itself is not proscribed, and this is not merely a semantic argument because it is quite possible to consume caffeine without consuming coffee or tea. I myself drink Monster Zero Ultra regularly.
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
So is iced coffee permissible? Genuine question.
websterhamster@reddit
No, because it's coffee. Excellent question, though.
vim_deezel@reddit
most people are, it's the 10% that ruin it; could be religion, could be philosophy, could be mental illness or poor upbringing, could just be "everything is about me" that 10% make life really hard for the rest of us
CupBeEmpty@reddit
I mean they do want you to join but the niceness is genuine in my experience. I know a few Mormons and they know I am a devout Catholic. They are still just kind people with a big focus on family.
I think their theology is bonkers but they put a premium on kindness and helpfulness.
thephoton@reddit
As an atheist (from a Catholic family) Catholics to me are similar to Mormons, in that the church teaches a lot of harmful things, but actual Catholics you meet tend to be very accepting of diversity and friendly toward outsiders.
VintagePHX@reddit
Also an atheist ex-C. Both churches seem like they've been taken over by Trumpism. The Catholics and Mormons I work with are all nice, friendly, helpful people. I feel like I work with the only 2 Mormons who aren't MAGA (the Catholics definitely are but don't say much at work). My Mormon neighbors are all proud flag flyers for Trump though and they aren't all that friendly or neighborly either.
thephoton@reddit
It might be different where I live because the Catholic church here is heavily populated with immigrants (Latinos, Phillipinos, Vietnamese, ...). Some of them might be Trump voters, but for economic reasons, not so much for MAGA nationalist reasons.
Push_the_button_Max@reddit
Yes, The all Catholic Churches around my area (Los Angeles southern coastline-ish) are pretty liberal - Maybe it’s the influence of the Jesuits at Loyola Marymount University.
Nuns and Jesuits are the ones who should be in charge of the Catholic Church, IMO.
CupBeEmpty@reddit
Heh, the Jesuits aren’t even the most liberal ones and if you think that nuns are all left leaning I think you don’t know too many nuns
Push_the_button_Max@reddit
The nuns are not the most liberal, but they do the majority of the good works in the church, so I think they should have the power.
Mdrim13@reddit
I recently visited my gay brother in laws Mormon family in Las Vegas. They were super nice people.
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
But don’t they think that you joining is saving you? That’s not self-serving if they think it’s something that will benefit you.
young_trash3@reddit
They are nice, not kind. Niceness is about pleasantries and social expectations, kindness is about treating your fellow human well.
shiny_xnaut@reddit
I'm ex Mormon, and baptisms for the dead are really not as weird as they sound. They're not actually baptizing dead people. What happens is people will go to their local temple, line up with a bunch of other volunteers, and then each one will basically get re-baptized a dozen or so times while another person reads out the names of dead people who have distant relatives in the church. The idea is that it then gives those people the option to be baptized in spirit in the afterlife by the also-dead spirits of church members who have presumably been working to convert them on their end
Obviously I don't believe in any of it anymore, but people act so alarmist about it, like they're literally digging up people's graves or something, when that's just not true
lyndseymariee@reddit
I didn’t think they were bringing literal dead people into the temple but thanks for the explainer. Either way, it is weird.
shiny_xnaut@reddit
Eh, I don't really see it as significantly more weird than plenty of stuff other organized religions do, but that might just be because I grew up with it and got used to it
I'm happy to answer any other questions if you have them as well
lyndseymariee@reddit
I mean yes, baptizing someone without their consent is weird. It’s at the top of weirdo religious traditions. If someone baptized me after I died, I’d haunt them for the rest of their meddling, little life.
shiny_xnaut@reddit
I'm not sure I really see the issue? It's not like they're kidnapping people's souls and dragging them kicking and screaming away from their loved ones to the wrong afterlife. If you don't believe in the Mormon church or theology, then all that really happened is some guy read your great grandpa's name off a list next to a guy getting dunked in water repeatedly. It all just seems equal parts harmless and pointless
If say, a Wiccan wrote your name on a piece of paper and burned some incense next to it or something because they believed it would help you pass your next math test, would you be mad at them for casting a spell on you without your consent even though you didn't believe in spells? I'm not trying to ask this as a gotcha rhetorical, I'm genuinely trying to understand your perspective
lyndseymariee@reddit
Yes. Baptizing someone who was Jewish, for example, in the Mormon church (or any church for that matter), is wildly disrespectful regardless of if the person was a believer or not. You’re right. You don’t think it’s that weird because you grew up in the church. Have a nice day.
shiny_xnaut@reddit
What I'm trying to understand is why it's so disrespectful though
lyndseymariee@reddit
I’m not gonna keep going back and forth to you trying to explain my opinion lol you’re a stranger on the internet. It shouldn’t matter why another stranger thinks the way they do ✌️
hellofellowcello@reddit
These days, you need a lawyer to get out. (Quitmormon)
mothwhimsy@reddit
This is accurate to my experience. My hometown has a weirdly high population of Mormons despite not being known for having Mormons. I've only met one who wasn't super nice.
Unfortunately, no amount of niceness is going to make me forget that people need lawyers to leave the church.
websterhamster@reddit
This is simply untrue. If one wishes to leave the Church, they merely have to request to resign their membership. You can give your bishop a signed letter, or you can send a notarized letter to Church headquarters (this to prevent fraud).
No lawyer necessary! 🙂
dreibel@reddit
I went the lawyer route ( quitmormon.com ) because 1) it guaranteed I wouldn't be contacted by TSCC to be threatened or intimidated , and 2) to send a message that they no longer had power over me to be threatened or intimidated.
Originally the way to leave the Church was to send a letter addressed to the First Presidency. You usually got a pamphlet from the Church warning you of hellfire and damnation if you dared to leave.
Later the FP required that you had to send your resignation request to your Bishop or Stake President. Often that would lead to foot dragging and the requirement to a "meeting", or possibility of a Church Court.
It is true that it has gotten a bit better to resign via those methods, but that was only after the Church lost a lawsuit after a member had made a request to resign, only to be excommunicated punitively, after the now ex-member used the precedent of a landmark decision in a previous case that ruled Churches should honour requests for withdrawal of membership without retaliative or hostile measures against the request....
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2011/03/31/churches-in-court4/
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/d7xg64/unsung_exmo_heroes_norman_handcock_in_1985_sues/
mothwhimsy@reddit
Oh yup yup. And you're technically allowed to be gay. Just don't ever act on it. So it's "untrue" that Mormonism is homophobic.
Okay bud
Relevant_Elevator190@reddit
No they don't. I live in Utah and am quite familiar with the church even though I don't practice the religion.
eklect@reddit
They get baptized in behalf of dead people because they believe it's a ritual you have to do with a physical body.
You think Mormons would be digging upgrades dunking dead people!?
If that was true, you'd know it because there would be half eaten plates of green jello and funeral potatoes left by the graves 😂
Chreed96@reddit
They really aren't that nice. They're very cruel and narcissistic, especially when they're the majority. My wife went to school in small town Nevada that was 98% mormon. They were incredibly vicious to her and her family.
They're taught from the beginning that they're gods prince/princesses and they look down on everyone that isn't Mormon.
MossiestSloth@reddit
To expand on baptizing dead people, they've been baptizing holocaust victims, they also baptized Hitler and other perpetrators.
Wermys@reddit
Yeah that is pretty accurate. Best way I can sum it up is the Ward they are in views them as "family". So when you want to leave the church it is a shock to them all. And they have a hard time understanding as to the why. And they will do what they can to save you. Because they look at you as part of an extended family. Best and worst thing about Mormons is there sense of community. It can and does cut both ways.
Bawstahn123@reddit
So long as you are straight. And white. And a true follower of their religion.
KaityKat117@reddit
members of the mormon church are generally nice people.
The mormon church as an organization is a greedy, money hungry, controlling and manipulative cult.
WaldoJeffers65@reddit
I agree they're nice, but they're nice a creepy way.
Massnative@reddit
Just normal people who have a different religion than main stream Americans.
The former (now retired) police chief in my small central Massachusetts town is Latter Day Saints, a good guy.
LegalRadonInhalation@reddit
Mormonism is weird, but Mormons can be some of the nicest people ever.
Sabertooth767@reddit
Mormons are one of the most disliked religious groups, just ahead of Muslims and Atheists (who are tied for last place).
source
rjnd2828@reddit
Atheism is not a religion. We're not an organized group and we have no set beliefs besides that god does not exist. No clue why atheism would be included in any poll about religion. Since theism isn't a religion neither is atheism.
Wermys@reddit
Which 95 percent of the people don't really ever know they are talking to a mormon unless its mentioned to them. Most of the ones they meet are missionaries.
Electrical_Swing8166@reddit
How are Scientologists not last?
KingDarius89@reddit
They threatened to sue.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit
Not big enough to be on the radar for most people, other than vague rumors about movie stars.
Sabertooth767@reddit
They weren't asked about.
SubjectBrick@reddit
In elementary school I was friends with this girl who was mormon, and her parents said that they'd need to ask their bishops permission if they could let her spend the night at my house, but in the meantime I was welcome to spend the night at THEIR house. Boy did that piss my dad off that they assumed that we should automatically trust their family (which, we did) but that our family was suspect.
RevolutionaryBug2915@reddit
The "average American," if such a person exists, is respectful of any religion (that is the current default), but has heard enough strange things about the Mormons to make such a person somewhat suspicious and more than a little queasy about that Church.
Sailor_NEWENGLAND@reddit
I think they’re odd…going by what I’ve seen on social media..but I’ve never actually met a Mormon
Fairelabise17@reddit
Exmormon here. Obviously with stronger opinions.
In short I'd say "scary, complex, brainwashed"
The longer version, Mormons are very unassuming and seem very nice, unfortunately, now, after doing more research and leaving, they have disrupted local elections (see prop 8) and their ideologies are problematic. They have lawyers on retainer than have protect sexual predators who have SA'd children. It's incredibly disturbing.
Younger members (my peers) are breaking away from the regressive ideologies, however, I personally believe this is even more nefarious. They still support an organization that is very problematic.
One-on-one, please be kind to these people, especially missionaries. They are very brainwashed, and used to infantilism being directed at them.
Many typically have under developed emotions, they can be catty, narcissistic, passive aggressive, etc and they believe in prosperity doctrine, so, I wouldn't share anything bad that's happened in your life and expect actual empathy.
Moreover, I'd say, do not let your kids anywhere near an LDS church, especially alone.
Tamihera@reddit
I think that literally any faith which has all-male leadership and a strong tradition where women and children are supposed to submit to male leaders is ripe for widespread SA. The LDS are hardly alone in this: the Catholics, the Southern Baptists, heck, even the Amish…
LeviathanLX@reddit
I mostly just think about how many adult Mormons were part of the church when they didn't let Black people in. Yeah, it changed, but that wasn't a deal-breaker for them. It wasn't that long ago, like late '70s.
That's pretty much all I think about Mormonism.
Tamihera@reddit
They’re still not interested in women in spiritual leadership. I don’t understand how a faith which believes in prophets can ignore the prophet Deborah. Or Miriam prophesying. Or Mary in her Magnificat.
Plus, there’s the whole thing where good Mormon men get to pickup extra wives in their afterlife. Got to say that I’m with poor Emma Smith on the whole polygamy thing, and that acquiring a bunch of sister-wives in the hereafter is not my idea of heaven.
AnastasiaNo70@reddit
Oh and a LOT of shady money shit goes on with Mormons. And pyramid schemes/MLMs. They looooove a good pyramid scheme.
HeftyCommunication66@reddit
I’ve known some Mormons who are religious zealots, hypocrites, and real assholes.
I’ve also worked with several who live by their faith, are kind, hardworking, honest, and believe in self sufficiency and being active community contributors. Once we firmly established that I’m not interested in joining their church, we’ve been good friends and I value them deeply.
In other words, they’re human like everyone else. And like everyone else, they might have a few funny ideas on some things.
originaljbw@reddit
Grew up in the Willamette Valley of Oregon, graduated in 2002.
Like with any religion there were varying levels of faithfulness among the mornon community. They were always on the quiet side about their religion compared to the born again christians. Virtually without exception they had massive families: like 5 kids was the minumum. They were the most generic, wholesome, family from Fallout before the bombs dropped 1950's Leave it to Beaver wholesomeness on the surface. There were still kids who did drugs, drank, and engaged in general teenage deliquent behavior, but they hid it from adults well.
Very strong in community building. Since all church goers are required to tithe a percentage, they always had money for outreach. At one point in the late 90s when rural Oregon wasn't doing great they had nearly half the storefronts on the main street as various arms of their Parternerships in Community Living corporation/charity/recruitment tool.
So to sum it up into a soundbite, they are the Amish without technology restrictions.
AnastasiaNo70@reddit
It’s a cult. I have a very particular strong dislike for them due to a couple of family members. They’re the only bad thing about Utah.
Very misogynistic, racist, patriarchal and straight up creepy. Special underwear. Very sexually repressed. Urged to have tons of kids.
🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢
Appropriate_Bird_223@reddit
Growing up a Protestant, I was taught to believe Mormons were occult, similar to Jehovah's Witnesses, but they weren't viewed as "crazy" as Scientologists or other non-Christian(ish) cults.
Now, I just see them as a religious group with their own set of beliefs. I have no strong feelings toward them one way or another.
moraconfestim@reddit
Fuck them.
free-toe-pie@reddit
I grew up in the 80s being friends with a Mormon family and I never knew it until they moved away. They were a big family, they weren’t rich, and they never talked about being Mormon to me. They moved to utah when I was around 10 or 11. All the kids have big Mormon families now.
LegitimateBeing2@reddit
They’re a cult of mostly nice people with very peculiar beliefs.
NPHighview@reddit
We’ve met some fabulous neighbors who were Mormon. We lived in an area that had a major earthquake, and once they were assured it wasn’t the Apocalypse, they shared out their emergency supplies with the neighbors. We had a wonderful babysitter who was from a Mormon family. And, a co-worker who regularly tithed was financially supported by his local church after he got laid off. So, good stuff.
In Comparative Religion class, and in terms of supportability of tenets through verifiable evidence (genetics, linguistics, archaeology, etc.) it’s a bunch of hooey.
PhilzeeTheElder@reddit
Couple Summers ago I had 2 Mormon kids show up and I had them help me lift a brush hog onto a trailer and then told them thanks and go away. I'm in Northern Michigan. It's just another Cult .
Life-Succotash-3231@reddit
Generally, they are honest, hardworking, educated, trustworthy people. I think there is no historical basis for many of their beliefs, and it surprises me that smart, educated people fall in line without a lot of critical thinking. But I think they are just taught not to question, which is the opposite of how we Presbyterians approach faith and beliefs.
AmericanMinotaur@reddit
I’ve never met a Mormon myself. I don’t agree with their teachings, and the church seems kind of sketchy to me. I’m a Catholic though, so I can recognize that the actions of the church itself don’t always reflect the practitioners. I have no problem with Mormons. I appreciate living in a country with a variety of religious views.
PhysicsEagle@reddit
Curious: as a Catholic, do you view Mormons and Protestants somewhat similarly, or is there a distinction?
AmericanMinotaur@reddit
To be clear, I grew up Catholic, but today would probably fall under the category of an Agnostic Catholic, so I can’t speak for actively practicing Catholics (as in those who actually go to church).
I view Protestants and Catholics as being different branches of the same faith. To be sure there are differences, like “faith alone vs. faith and works”, and Catholics having the Pope and being able to ask the saints and Mary to pass the message we give them on to God. That seems to me to be more of a difference in how the two branches practice their faith rather than two separate faiths altogether.
From my understanding, Mormons have the Bible, but also have added a lot of other stuff to it. Like the stuff about America being the promised land and John Smith being a prophet. To be clear, there’s nothing wrong with that, but I view its link to Christianity like I view Christianity’s link to Judaism. Eventually if you change the source material enough, it just becomes an entirely new religion.
So in short, I see Roman Catholicism and Protestantism as different flavors of Christianity, and Mormonism as a spin-off that’s kind of its own thing. I haven’t interacted with either Protestantism or Mormonism a ton, so if I’ve misconstrued anything let me know.
Dillenger69@reddit
Mormons are a wee bit odd with all their rules and backstory. Honestly, though, the story of regular Christianity is just as off the wall. We just can't verify it didn't happen because it was so long ago, unlike a Caucasian native American tribe that buried gold tablets.
AdamColligan@reddit
I've lived in Salt Lake City for the last five years (SLC proper, which is very "blue" and quite secular). I grew up in the Deep South. I think there's a few points worth adding to what's already here.
There is something lots of modern people find instinctively weird or ridiculous about a religion being focused on alleged events that are very recent in time and that supposedly happened in familiar nearby places. We've come to associate more "credible" or "normal" religious belief with more exotic and ancient stories. But in terms of the theology of the LDS church in a vacuum, I think a lot of Americans would be hard pressed to put their finger on why they feel like it's categorically different than the theologies of more popular/"mainstream" religious movements.
A lot of concern or disdain regarding the LDS faith involves: (a) doctrines and practices on the control of personal behavior, especially of sexuality and of the choices of women; and (b) the perception of a strong insider/outsider boundary being maintained. As someone who grew up in a very religious part of the country and has also lived in very secular pockets of it, I think there may be some misattribution here. Those features are also very prominent in many other flavors of popular, contemporary American Christianity. It's worth people considering how much of the perceived difference is about actual doctrine and how much is about the application of the doctrine in a more fractured vs more monolithic social landscape.
Many of these problematic ideas were probably more popular and prominent in my hometown than they are in Utah today (which may not even be majority LDS anymore). But in most of the country, they are developed and practiced in a mosaic of different denominations and independent congregations. None of the churches have enough reach in any part of the community to keep organized track of who might be more or less a part of the in-group, since the majority of even like-minded neighbors practice in some other setting. Trying to, e.g., restrict your kids to socialization or marriage within your specific denomination is not just totally impractical but also religiously unnecessary.
LDS congregations are also part of that mosaic in most of America, but with a difference that I see them also sharing with Catholics: they were originally built up in settings in which they were the dominant religious and social structure in the whole community. So they retain stronger links to practices and expectations that developed in such settings. Of course, plenty of people also call Catholicism a cult, but that doesn't have quite the same sting to it, does it? Everyone has watched institutional Catholicism lose its grip on both communities and individuals even when they remain more or less faithful, and everyone has seen that church sort of come to grips with that. People haven't seen that with institutional Mormonism yet, and so it's worth "average Americans" asking themselves about the similarities and differences between their feelings about LDS people today and their predecessors' feelings about Catholics in the era, say, before the 1960 elections.
People haven't seen that with institutional Mormonism yet. But LDS church authority has now been facing both a chronic and an acute challenge.
The chronic challenge is with the growing ranks of ex-Mormons, who now have diverse communities in which they can thrive that are now right next door to the ones they come from -- and who now have technology-driven communication and socialization practices that make it much harder to insulate the community from them or their perspectives.
But what I really want to note is the acute challenge. Over the past 10 years, a huge number of LDS congregants have been swept up in a totally different, national movement offering to validate individual desires for power, exclusivity, and the freedom from basic moral and intellectual constraints. You can say what you will about the church's role in preparing the ground for such a thing happening, and there's plenty to say. But if you're a fan of secular liberal democracy right now, the palpable fear at LDS HQ isn't actually so different from your own fear. LDS doctrine and leadership have suddenly been transformed into a desperate and surprisingly weak moderating influence on the flock. The largely geriatric white male patriarchs have been the ones out there saying that Black Lives Matter and that the church's past overt racism has to be completely purged from people's hearts. They've been the ones pairing their traditionalist sex and gender norms with exhortations against bullying and legislative stances guided by some modicum of compassion and pragmatism. Recently they've even been getting more explicit, trying to decree that blind loyalty to a single political party is incompatible with the faith's views on participation in public life. If you've had the impression that the church runs the state here, you should get a good look at just how quickly (and gleefully!) Utah LDS Republican politicians have shrugged that church right off their backs after learning they can keep and even gain public support by the abandonment of basically every form of decency.
So if you've been concerned about some particular LDS people being in a cult, I'm not sure I'd use that word, but there's definitely a whole long-running conversation on what you have in mind. Right now, though? I'd be a lot more concerned about whether they're in a very different cult than the one you have in mind.
Richs_KettleCorn@reddit
I was at BYU in 2016 and present at the devotional where one of the highest leaders of the church denounced Trump in all but name. It was shocking at the time, as the church had been stubbornly apolitical (officially, at least) for as long as anyone in the audience could remember. I wonder to what extent church leadership saw the writing on the wall for what Trump's brand of conservatism would mean for the church's political influence.
Too bad that shock didn't transfer into any meaningful difference in voting patterns, lol
Osric250@reddit
One of the biggest issues of Mormonism that is one of the primary reasons for many labeling it as a cult is the total and complete shunning of those who leave the church.
To choose to leave the church means that the church will label you an apostate and those still in good standing are expected to shun contact with you. This creates an insidiousness within the church itself where it is creating social pressure to remain within a faith you no longer believe in because admitting or leaving the church might cost you your friends and family.
Yes, this is also something that happens with other religious groups, but not quite on the same institutional level. It's usually individual churches that take up that policy not one pushed down from the greater structures of the faith.
_whydah_@reddit
This is absolutely untrue. What is explicitly taught is the opposite. I think culturally this can happen anyway and I think that the church does essentially say to not take religious advice from people who have left (which I'm not sure how you can argue doesn't make sense, or in other words, it would be insensible for this or any other church to teach to listen closely to people who are antagonistic). But to be clear, there is nothing like this that is either taught or encouraged in the church.
JW's teach that you have to shun people who leave, and there may be others, but the "Mormon" church does not.
Osric250@reddit
The church absolutely looks at those who leave the faith as apostates, at least as far as doctrine goes.
And while it might not be direct doctrine to shun apostates, that is something that happens a [lot] (https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/ekky91/todays_topic_being_shunned_by_believing_family/) to people. There's hundreds of stories out there about that happening. You might be able to say that it isn't "supported" by the church but when it happens so often you can't really claim it's not a reality.
_whydah_@reddit
I'm sure it happens, but it does not happen a lot. It is illogical to believe that a group of people who are so antagonistic towards the church that they regularly post about it on Reddit will have the most unbiased views towards how church members behave.
I am a lifelong member in a family where \~50% of the family has left the church and no one is antagonistic about it. I don't even personally know anyone who has even hinted at shunning someone for leaving. If someone admitted that in church it would get real awkward because everyone would be inclined to tell that person they literally did exactly the opposite of what they should do.
Yes, when someone leaves the church they are in a state that is defined as "the abandonment or renunciation of a religious or political belief." Definitionally this is true of every church. I think you're trying to equate the church teaching that people who leave are in apostasy with some sort of teaching that they are somehow "bad" people. We believe that God loves them the same, although they may have cut themselves off from feeling it as much as when they were practicing members.
Here are some actual articles from the church about how church members should treat family and others who have left.
What Church Leaders Are Saying about When Loved Ones Turn Away from the Church (churchofjesuschrist.org)
How Can I Help My Loved Ones Who Have Lost Their Faith? (churchofjesuschrist.org)
Read some of these horrible things they say to do:
When someone close to you loses their faith, the temptation to try to “fix” the situation can be strong. Though we may have good intentions, sometimes our efforts to help can make our loved ones feel pressured instead of loved.
Really sounds like the church is strongly encouraging shunning. Really sounds like members who do it have clearly been encouraged to do so.
Yes, I wish all our members were perfect, but the church isn't for perfect people, it's for people trying to do better and unfortunately, some people do stuff that is explicitly taught against, like how to treat people who leave.
MrBurglekutt@reddit
lol what? I think you're confusing Mormonism with some other religion, maybe JWs? I'm an ex-Mormon and know many other ex-Mormons and we aren't shunned by our LDS friends or families. If you make a big deal out of it and are always out there telling people how wrong their religion is they're going to avoid you. But you can also just live your life and let them live theirs and get along fine.
Osric250@reddit
JW's are required to shun those who leave, or they face being removed themselves.
But if you spend much time on /r/exmormon you'll find there's so many stories of people leaving the Mormon faith being shunned by their families and friends. There's a really good thread about it here.
I'm very glad that it didn't happen to you.
SkinkAttendant@reddit
Maybe in parts of Utah but where I live Mormons and ex Mormons just avoid talking about religion and get along fine.
abbot_x@reddit
This is such a good comment.
I think it comes down to some combination of the following:
websterhamster@reddit
Thanks for this comment! We don't usually get such rational and fair-minded explanations of our place in American society on Reddit.
dammitijustwantmemes@reddit
Outside of the Mormon Belt? (Southwest United States) They're just a cult, ultra conservative. Non Mormons in the Mormon belt generally think their nice, but socially awkward and inbred
GuitarEvening8674@reddit
It's a cult with secret underwear. AND they baptize all dead people into their faith so according to their plan, all of us will wind up on a Mormon led planet and suffer for all eternity
NotTheMariner@reddit
It’s complicated. I really don’t like discarding any religion wholesale, and I feel like the Mormons get entirely too much shit for their doctrine, especially on a theoretical level, and especially from Christians.
That said, the LDS Church has some not-okay history (Jarvis, show me “Black admissions to BYU”), and generally seems to be about one step up from the Jehovah’s Witnesses as far as being a controlling organization. I really have no love for it as an organization.
That said, it’s not like everyone is desert compound Mormons, and if you really want to take the teeth out of a controlling organization like that, legitimizing the idea that you won’t be normal about its members is just a bad tactic. And people get downright conspiratorial.
There’s more layers from there. Ultimately, I guess my opinion boils down to “suspicious of the church, but I don’t mind the people.”
MeanestNiceLady@reddit
Is Mormonism's track record with racism that much worse than Alabama's?
Matt_ASI@reddit
Let me put it this way, it was once the view of the Mormon church that black people were cursed or the descendants of Cain until about 1978 when they had to back track on that.
MeanestNiceLady@reddit
Right, but that was also the view of mainstream Christianity for a long time. My black father was literally taught this in his baptist church. This country was profoundly racist against blacks for like 350 years, and people hate on the church for being like 15 years too late to the party. I'm not a part of the church currently but I know tons and tons of Mormons and have spent lots of time in SLC. The church has lots of problems but currently racism isn't one of them. I know more than a few black mormons.
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
Depends on how you’re defining “mainstream Christianity.” This view was pretty relegated to certain American Protestant denominations (like the southern Baptists). With the amount of Christians outside the US (including in places like Africa), I would hesitate to call it a “mainstream” belief.
MeanestNiceLady@reddit
Suffice to say that white Americans generally thought of themselves as better than blacks for a huge majority of this country's history.
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
Did I say anything to contradict that? I’m saying Christianity is a lot bigger than white people or Americans. So if something only applied to a subset of white, American Christians, that certainly doesn’t make it “mainstream” Christianity.
pistachio-pie@reddit
The musical Book of Mormon has a line “and in 1978 God changed his mind about Black people”
megggie@reddit
Such a brilliant musical. Absolutely all of their factual information was legitimately FACTUAL.
Thats why it made the Mormon “church” so angry.
pistachio-pie@reddit
They weren’t angry at all where I am haha. They took out ads and had folks outside the theatre “you saw the show, now read the book!” And we’re quite sweet about it.
NotTheMariner@reddit
I’m afraid I don’t follow.
MeanestNiceLady@reddit
The University of Alabama and BYU were de-segregated within 5 years of each other. One by choice, one forced by the federal government. It just seems weird for someone from a state primarily known for racism to accuse BYU of being racist.
NotTheMariner@reddit
Whoops, I was referring to their history regarding segregation - in too cheeky a way to be clear, it seems. Sorry about that. Definitely not trying to imply that’s still ongoing.
megggie@reddit
The vast majority of Black students at BYU, which total less than 1% of the student body, are athletes.
Look it up for yourself if you don’t believe me.
It’s a disgusting school.
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
And? That’s a pretty low bar.
Kool_McKool@reddit
Alabama had to accept Civil Rights way back when. Mormonism tried to keep black people way even through the 70s.
MeanestNiceLady@reddit
Yeah the national guard had to be sent into Alabama to protect black students from throngs of protesting white alabamans. Whereas Mormons voluntarily relinquished their racism only 15 years later.
15 year difference in a country that was racist as fuck for like 400 years
FrenchFreedom888@reddit
I feel the same way, except I do mind the people and a lot of their backwards thoughts about the world, specifically to do with the gay community. Their niceness is usually just on the outside
megggie@reddit
100%
Bright_Ad_3690@reddit
Cultists
JadeSpeedster1718@reddit
Most would tell you Cult.
AZJHawk@reddit
Have you ever seen the movie The Stepford Wives? Kinda like that.
11061995@reddit
Wealthy, strange, anecdotally super hot as to the ones I've met, cheerful and fairly quiet about their religion to outsiders when not spreading the word.
ConstantinopleFett@reddit
I've liked all the individual Mormons I can remember meeting. I knew a lot of them and ran into a lot of them when I lived in Austin for some reason (are there a lot of Mormons there or was it just coincidence? Not sure).
I had Mormon friends although none of those were close friends. They just seemed pretty normal to me. If anything, they seemed extra disciplined and conscientious. I never discussed religion with them much if at all.
Missionaries came knocking on my door pretty often when I lived in Austin. They were always pleasant. I never tried to engage them in any deep conversation. The thing where they go do missionary work in a foreign country and learn a new language is kinda cool to me.
I also know ex Mormons and they're all either disowned by their parents or the relationship is very strained. That's sad. They mostly only have bad things to say about the religion. It looks very cult-ish when you get a glimpse behind those curtains. I would hate to live in a world where only Mormons could vote, I think that would be a pretty messed up place.
Yet I think in at least some ways, they might be on to something when it comes to how to bring up ethical and conscientious people (men at least, and that's another issue...).
So I have mixed feelings.
CloudsTasteGeometric@reddit
South Park's episode on it captured the common view well. And not just the "dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb" meme, but the entire episode.
They're seen as weird and kind of gullible. Annoyingly positive. But not bad - as their freedom to worship the way they see fit is a core American value. They're poked fun of but rarely if ever the subject of actual discrimination. Which says a lot.
There is a rising undercurrent, especially among Millennials and Gen Z to be VERY critical of them, however, as the actual abuses of the Mormon church become more pubic and subject to scrutiny.
For the average American? They're the quirky but ultimately friendly and wholesome family from down the street.
JLRDC909@reddit
Viewed as mostly politically conservative, hard working and family oriented.
Most view them that the church has unyielding power over every aspect of their lives and that they all vote Republican. They also are viewed that they are not Christians and they hate coffee.
While some of this is true, not all is. I’ve known many. “Jack Mormons” are the term given to LDS people who are still listed as members, but aren’t active.
jungle4john@reddit
To quote South Park, "dumb, dumb,dumb".
In all honesty, they are mostly nice people. Know that if you are not LDS, you are not equal to them, no matter how nice.
They're bible and general religion are weird, racist, and a whole lot else, too, with a very tainted history. They are sexist, homophonic, and have a very caste structure to their congregation. Girls at BYU who get raped are encouraged to NOT go to authorities and instead let the school and church handle it. Only to be blamed for their rape. Though mainline LDS have denounced polygamy, their bible says you need so many wives to get to the celestial kingdom, their heaven. To me, that says they have not denounced it enough. I live close to the Warren Jeffs FLDS fuckery. We see his group in their prairie garb at the supermarket and Home Depot all the time. That is a whole other can of worms that comes with the LDS.
To sum up my views, their nice people, but I do not trust their religion at all.
B_Maximus@reddit
A lot dont know their history
DarkRoastAM@reddit
Don’t care. All religions have silly fairy tales at their heart
No-Profession422@reddit
"A cult", according to my now divorced formerly Mormon daughter. She converted to get married. She has said it was a huge mistake, both the marriage and conversion. Her big thing is their stance on LGBTQ and pressuring her to start having kids immediately.
His family was nice enough, maybe too smiley and enthusiastic. But something just seemed off. They had a big, massive family at the wedding reception and his side was mostly all blonde, short (5' to 5'5) people. I spoke to his biological dad at the reception. He kind of said the same thing. He mentioned they've "brainwashed" his son. '
It was just a weird vibe.
redpat2061@reddit
Agnostic living in Utah in a heavily LDS neighborhood (I’m the only lawnmower running on a Sunday morning). About the only weird thing is not drinking with my neighbors. They don’t even mind if we bring alcohol to neighborhood events. They never ever talk religion around us but once or twice mentioned in passing some church function that they all know and we’ve never heard of. We just smile and nod and they’ve forgotten that we have no idea what they are talking about.
priuspheasant@reddit
I grew up next to a Mormon church and had Mormon friends growing up, some of whom are now ex-Mormons. I've encountered two opinions:
1) Awww Mormons are so nice! Always so polite and respectful and well-dressed. So friendly. So helpful. 2) LDS is an oppressive cult that destroyed my/my friends' sense of self-worth and sucked them into bad marriages where they were treated terribly, discouraged them from getting treated for mental illness, told them feelings of being gay are temptations against God, etc.
westcoast7654@reddit
Couldn’t care less. What they do doesn’t affect anyone but them. Just like my students who are all kinds of religions.
kalelopaka@reddit
Nutty cults with money, like Scientology.
owiaf@reddit
I have generally good impressions of them as really nice people to be around. But often something feels a bit off, and I find the religion itself to be completely nonsensical.
Postingatthismoment@reddit
Eh, it’s a sort of interesting Christian sect. Their doctrine resolves a couple of pesky problems with Christianity (if Jesus is the route to salvation, what about people who lived before him? What about Native Americans before conquest?). Mormon missionaries are delightfully recognizable from a distance with their shiny matching white shirts, even more than Witnesses and their Sunday-go-to-Meeting clothes and nice book bags.
radicalnachos@reddit
In my opinion the average opinion seems to hover around they are crazy to they’re in a cult. Personally I think it is both
pxystx89@reddit
For the LDS, I think it’s a high-control religion that can be very damaging for its members, like any high-control religion but I’m sure there are people who are fine and happy. The FLDS is pretty awful, but most religious fundamentalism is pretty terrible to its members unless you’re a leader, regardless of the sector of religion.
Happy_Warning_3773@reddit
They're eccentric people just like Jehovah's Witnesses.
chuckit9907@reddit
They believe in magic. Also have a long history of racism and misogyny.
prototypist@reddit
The majority of Mormons are now outside the US, but nowhere more densely concentrated as in Utah. They have a fairly large population across Polynesia - the one time that I talked to Mormon missionaries was in the Marshall Islands, and former New Zealand PM Jacinda Ardern was (?) Mormon. The multi-cultural, multi-racial nature of Brazil is what broke the church's policies on race.
OK as an average person it doesn't affect me at all on a day-to-day. You might hear about someone going to Utah for a business deal and finding it's a super Mormon office, or noticing the rules about serving alcohol in restaurants.
hrdbeinggreen@reddit
A cousin’s son became a Mormon and I had worked with several who did not live and work in Utah. I got along fine with them all. However one friend of mine that worked in an area of Arizona which borders Utah had different views of them, swearing promotions was based more on if you were Mormon or not after one was hired as the administrator at their branch.
Great-Egret@reddit
IT’S A CULT. Well, they seem cool with “gay conversion therapy”, they prey on recent immigrants to trick them into converting, their whole faith is based on one guy who claims to have seen an angel and visions that basically told him “you are a prophet and also you should marry a lot of women”. How convenient!
Also they are just so creepy. People say they are nice but believe me that is just to lure vulnerable people into their cult.
marsglow@reddit
It was a JW who told MY 4 year old daughter that Santa Claus was DEAD, so there would be no Xmas that year. Ever since, I've hated their cult.
marsglow@reddit
I have had Mormon friends in the past. We occasionally discussed their church but not their religious beliefs.
A lot of Americans believe they worship the moon. Even more refuse to believe they are Christian. But then, a lot of people just don't think about them at all.
I also, with many of my friends, are grateful for their gynecological work from which I have benefitted enormously.
JadedPilot5484@reddit
Another corporation moonlighting as a cult/religion. The Mormon church is one of the largest land owners in the United States, rivaling some corporations.
OldERnurse1964@reddit
Cult
MisfitMaterial@reddit
Usually very nice if sometimes prejudiced people who hold some extremely bizarre beliefs.
bananacrazybanana@reddit
mormons have rigid views and have their own way of seeing the world that blunts reality to them and they stop being able to tolerate reality and become the friend that doesn't like swearing doesn't drink coffee doesn't drink alcohol and acts mental if they have a friend who does. they have complete black and white thinking and think anyone who drinks alcohol is a depressed alcoholic. they believe for some reason that everything in life will work out for everyone because a God has a plan for everyone and is taking care of everyone so they abandon themselves and begin to lack empathy for others.
Kaurifish@reddit
Having read Under a Banner of Heaven and knowing former Mormons, this American's opinion of the church is not good.
porcelaincatstatue@reddit
Average Midwesterner here. I generally don't think about them because there aren't really any around where I live. (A bit south of Chicago) Our local religious plainsclothes folks are all Amish (the ones that dont really use electricity or drive) or Mennonite.
They seem like a weird cult to me. On one hand, they've got the lizard book prophet, polygamy, and special underwear. On the other hand, I sometimes see reality shows kinda like Real Housewives about them and that seems like the opposite. Basically, they're one weird group of Christian fundamentalists who are way over there and don't really affect me. It's the evangelicals that are trying to turn our country into a real live Gilead.
Itsnotsmallatall@reddit
Their religion is nonsense. But this is America, they have an inalienable right to exercise their beliefs.
And in my experiences, Mormons are usually pretty strait laced but kind family oriented people.
annacaiautoimmune@reddit
If you are interested in family history, Mormons are very helpful.
JudgeImaginary4266@reddit
There is no average view. Your experience around Mormon people will shape your opinion. My mom’s family is from Utah; she got excommunicated for marrying a Catholic. They are zealous nuts just like every other fundamentalist group. By and large though I have found them to be very kind, family oriented people. They will be friendly and polite, but you will never be admitted into their circle.
SDEexorect@reddit
having been to utah, mormons are some of the nicest people ive ever meet. with that being said, its an extremely weird cult that has strange customs.
TheCastro@reddit
Cults are usually really nice to people
smmstv@reddit
Not to people not in the cult
TheCastro@reddit
Sure they are. They want new recruits and no one to complain about them
seigezunt@reddit
Big Love
Smiles4YouRawrX3@reddit
S O A K I N G (is what comes to mind)
michelle427@reddit
My old neighbor was Mormon. They were pretty normal. When I was up early in the morning I’d see their daughters be picked up to go to Seminary. It’s where those in High School (9-12 grades or 14-18 years of age )in America the last 4 years before they are through with school. They spend 4 years going through the Old Testament, New Testament, Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants and Church History.
I’ve found that they can be overly nice. Almost too much. There is too much niceness where it comes off fake.
fenrirwolf1@reddit
19th Century Scientologists
TiaxRulesAll2024@reddit
Mormons are a deranged cult that promotes MLMs
Disgruntled_Oldguy@reddit
Kinda weirdos but they aren't bothering me so, whatever.
DonBoy30@reddit
More culty than JW, but less culty as Scientologists.
smmstv@reddit
I don't really feel strongly one way or the other about them. They've never given me any problems so I don't really worry about other people's religion.
thatguyoverthere__@reddit
It's not just fundamentalists that don't consider then Christians, it wasn't that long ago that them not being Christians was a near universal opinion.
On an individual level most Mormons I know we're nice and polite, if a bit on the conservative side.
The Mormon organization is different beast entirely. It's a dangerous and abusive cult.
Cowgoon777@reddit
No Christians consider Mormons or JWs to be Christian. They all agree those two are not. Theologically they don’t line up with Christians.
But it’s good PR to claim Christianity
halkilmer95@reddit
On Mormonism - I think their beliefs about Jesus are sufficiently divergent enough from hiistorically orthodox Christian beliefs about him, that it's not useful to use the same adjective (Christian) to describe them.
On Mormons - they are a disproportionally extremely pleasant, industrious, moral, and good-looking group of people.
Adorable-Growth-6551@reddit
I don't know that I have ever actually met a Mormon. I used to hide from the JW though. That was until my 2 year old decided to come to the door stark naked and do a little dance for him. He ran away and never came back, that was eight years ago.
TheBimpo@reddit
There's not that many of them in huge parts of the country, most of them are concentrated out west in Utah/Idaho/Nevada/Arizona. Most Americans don't really come into contact with LDS, except maybe those 2 nice boys with the badges that knocked on their door that one time.
I'd say the "average view" is that they're one of many offshoots of Christianity, like Seventh-Day Adventists or Pentecostals that people don't understand very well. They just know they're a subset of Christianity, something about Joseph Smith or BYU, and that they may wear special underwear or something...
THIS American thinks it's a cult.
PhysicsEagle@reddit
The difference is that at least most Pentecostals are recognized as still being “true” Christians by most mainline Christians (mainline in this sense meaning “not Mormon/Jehovah’s Witnesses/Seventh Day Adventist,” not Mainline Protestant)
TheBimpo@reddit
That’s fair. Although I do think there’s probably a decent percentage of people who don’t really understand LDS or Seventh Day at all.
803_843_864@reddit
Nut jobs
ManitobaBalboa@reddit
Cult
Nightwatching123@reddit
Weird but nice
glendacc37@reddit
Cult after I visited SLC and had a Temple Sqare tour (they behaved as if they were programmed) as well as had a Mormon friend in grad school who later left the church for a Methodist church. They endlessly harassed and threatened her, and her parents would no longer speak to her. She needed a ton of therapy after that. The rules, esp temple garments, are very odd to me... So, not for me.
Odd-Percentage-4084@reddit
It’s the second-silliest religion to come out of America. #1 is of course, Scientology.
Defiant_Dare_8073@reddit
Their founding myth about Joseph Smith with his weirdass scrying seer stones and hat to interpret later conveniently vanished golden plates dug up from a hillside in New York state or whatever is the silliest nonsense imaginable.
Key_String1147@reddit
Of all available religions, why pick the one where you can’t even drink coffee?
fermat9990@reddit
The backstory is quite sus
luxtabula@reddit
I've only met Mormons out of Utah. I imagine their behavior might be different where they feel comfortable, but they have a stepford-ish aww shucks to them that's both refreshing and off-putting at the same time. The ones that weren't ex Mormons wouldn't drink even coffee and tend to stick to themselves.
rimshot101@reddit
They're nice. They're super square, but nice.
The_Patriot@reddit
South Park did a show on them. That's pretty much what we think
rabbitinredlounge@reddit
That it’s kinda weird or fake Christian or people who think they’re still polygamous
BunnyHugger99@reddit
Nice people, every single one has been kind to me personally. I don't care what other people do with their religion as long as it's about them. If you interact with latter day saints, you can recognize them pretty easy and you'll see they aren't just in Utah
Quirky-Camera5124@reddit
nice people, even boringly so, with a weird but harmless religion.
PhysicsEagle@reddit
Mormonism has a disturbing amount of similarities to Islam. Both were founded by a man who claimed to have received personal revelation from God about a new scripture, significantly altering the orthodox Christian gospel, adding a list of actions needed to achieve salvation. Both started out with horrific views of women, with the more conservative branches of both still holding to them. Both groups elevated their founder to a semi-divine status. And both groups put heavy influence on proselytizing - the early Islamic world started numerous wars over converting their neighbors, and more fundamentalist groups (such as the Taliban in Afghanistan, and the current government of Iran) routinely execute people for not converting. The LDS Church doesn’t have that level of violence in their history, but they’ve formalized and mandated evangelism to an extent unseen by even Evangelical Christianity.
Such_Ad9962@reddit
I've lived in Utah and Montana and knew a lot of Mormons. Mostly they are nice people. I've never had a problem with any of them. I've never had an issue with what other people want to believe as far as religion goes. That's their business, not mine.
KaiserGustafson@reddit
I have some family who are mormon. Don't know much about 'em. Been told they're weird by my dad.
moneyman74@reddit
Average American here. Most of them are fine, there are a few like in Colorado City, Arizona who kick the males out of the community to have more wives. Those Mormons are trash.
One-Progress999@reddit
As a Jewish American, I think they're cool. Honestly, I have a lot of respect for people who aren't afraid to have their beliefs that may not be popular. As long as you don't try to go out and convert or kill someone who doesn't believe the same thing as you. Mad respect.
johannisbeeren@reddit
Don't care. Most Mormons I've met in real life, which has only been a couple since I'm from the Midwest, - are just normal people. They just tend to me alittle more religious than most - like never missing church, or church events, etc... but otherwise, completely normal people. Well, except somehow they're like all really good looking people. Lol. But true.
amaturecook24@reddit
I am a Christian so have probably more knowledge about the topic of Mormonism than your average american, but if I’m not looking at the beliefs of the church and just the people, they are generally nice and easy to get along with.
Despite their controversial beliefs, I’ve never come across a mormon that wasn’t kind and willing to talk. I rather debate with them than any of the street preachers you see carrying the signs about hell.
If someone isn’t religious I’m sure they don’t have any strong opinions about Mormonism as it’s just another religion they don’t subscribe to. Unless they come from the church and no longer believe, or they know someone that has strong feelings about them.
Worth_Bobcat_3730@reddit
I grew up in an area with a substantial mormon population (not utah though). As kids the boys were a bunch of wild childs, with some being nice and others not at all. Mormon adults are usually extremely friendly, my favorite teacher from high school was mormon. However, there was this feeling that as a non-mormon you were always one step removed from them, and not fully accepted in their social circles.
distorted-echo@reddit
They are the most friendly insular people I've ever met.
PigsWalkUpright@reddit
I know some Mormons and they’re very nice people. Of course they’re Houston Mormons so not the ones you hear about that dress like little house on the prairie and have multiple wives like out in west Texas.
Siriuxx@reddit
They are the nicest people you'll ever meet with the most insane beliefs you'll ever hear about.
BackUpTerry1@reddit
Non-radical mormons tend to be wholesome and friendly people with weird beliefs
FrozenFrac@reddit
That's ultimately how it should be. More coffee for the rest of us!
Main-Street-6075@reddit
r/exmormon
Smokinsumsweet@reddit
Non religious person from New England... I think of them as a child labor cult. But I think of most religions as a cult so it's the child labor that stands out lol
Calypso268@reddit
I'm a complete outsider to the LDS and Mormonism community, but I've worked alongside them before in the military. In one small unit of 10, 7 were LDS. I also have a good friend that is ex-Mormon.
The community seems closed, but also one I admire and would like to be a part of it it wasn't about the church. Every Mormon I've ever met has been a kind person, thoughtful, caring, sharing. The presented themselves well in mannerisms and attire. At work, they and their families were the ones to volunteer to help with anything without being pressured into it. That travel thing they do when they are young, they come back knowing another culture and language, which is amazing. I'll never get over hearing those co-workers speaking Tagalog and Swahili!
My mother grew up Catholic, on an indigenous reservation. She said the Mormons would come and do charitable things on the reservation. They built a wheelchair ramp on my grandparents home, with just a handshake...no proselytizing. Helped in tangible ways the Catholic Church didn't. She always defends them. Never say anything bad about Mormons in her presence.
I admit to only seeing negative things about their religious doctrine. Ex-Mormons in general are pretty vocal about what's wrong (as are 'ex' anything). And my ex-Mormon friend is gay and does not have a relationship with his father after coming out and leaving the church.
But even ex-Mormons have this thing about them... Maybe politeness is the word? Optimism? All of the ones I know are just like, really good humans.
Ok-Understanding9244@reddit
As a believer in Jesus Christ as the Savior, I think Mormons are not Christians because they don't believe Jesus Christ is the Savior. They are being misled.
scottb90@reddit
You can't spell Mormon with out moron
jcstan05@reddit
I'm a Mormon (more accurately, a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints).
I'm happy to discuss my beliefs and practices, so long as you're civil and ask questions in good faith.
ffsux@reddit
This question is 100% in good faith, I’m not trolling, but it’s an uncomfortable question. How do you personally reconcile Joseph Smith’s history in terms of young girls?
jcstan05@reddit
To have a useful discussion, you’ll have to provide me with specifics. Can you tell me exactly what history you’re referring to? Actual historical facts, and not just accusations of inappropriate behavior, made decades after?
Once we’ve established the actual history (not speculation), then we can talk about the nature of Joseph Smith’s polygamy— what it was and what it wasn’t. An important thing to remember is that Latter-day Saints, now and even more so then, don’t equate “sealing” or “celestial marriage” with sexual relations. True, they often go hand in hand, but not always.
It’s also important in a discussion like this is to avoid presentism, or applying today’s standards and expectations to the past. What’s scandalous today might be considered normal then, and vice versa.
Finally, I fully acknowledge that Joseph Smith was a flawed person who sometimes made big mistakes. Any rational member of the church knows that— Smith publicly and repeatedly admitted that himself. God doesn’t work with perfect people. Even the prophets of the Bible did some pretty reprehensible things. So, even if Smith did all the things he’s accused of, that wouldn’t necessarily negate the truths I believe he preached.
So many critics of my religion (and all religions, really) base their entire opinion on something unsavory they heard about its founder. Don’t judge the membership without ever getting to know them. Don’t dismiss the scripture without open-mindedly reading it. Don’t ridicule a religion without at least engaging with it on its own terms.
ffsux@reddit
I’m an ex-mo, born into it in UT. I was an active member for 30+ years. I’m very familiar with the religion, the culture, etc. I ask about Joseph’s history because it was one of the first things that bothered me about the church as I started to think critically about life and the world as a pre-teen. Specifically since you asked, it’s the underage girls. I can (and did) buy the “different time” mindset regarding polygamy. However, when I discovered several of Smith’s wives were 16 or younger, including multiple 14 year olds, the entire narrative changed in my mind. I simply couldn’t feel right following a supposed prophet of God (not to mention the LDS God himself) that would condone marriage to underage children.
That was the first real troublesome situation for me personally in the church, but of course by that point you are so ingrained, baptized at 8, it’s not just your religion at that point (in my born into it experience) it’s not an easy thing to reconcile especially for a 12-14 year old.
The next thing that created issues for me was more philosophical I guess, in that I just couldn’t see how God’s “one true church” included less than 0.5% of the world’s population.
As the years went on more and more issues piled up…black men and the lack of “priesthood authority” until the late 70’s. Women treated as “less than” men in so many ways. (I am a male.) Extremely inappropriate sexual based questions while alone in a closed door meeting as a teen with a local bishop, and of course those are not one-offs by a single rogue local leader, it happens (or happened, I’ve heard they have improved on this front but I’ve been out almost 10 years now) everywhere.
Eventually, I started reading online. Resisted looking into the church for so many years because that’s what I was told. Another poster in this very thread (an active member) said exactly that, “we’re not to read or listen to anything about the church from anyone outside the church.” Which in hindsight might be the biggest red flag of all, but the competition for top red flag is stiff in Mormonism.
CES letter is not anti-Mormon. It provides literal scientific proof that the Book of Mormon is fiction.
While my exit has been smooth compared to many who leave, it has created major relationship strains with the people I love most.
slayer1am@reddit
I'm curious if you've read the Gospel Topics essays on your church website? I've known a lot of Mormons that left the church after reading those.
jcstan05@reddit
Of course I have, and I think they're some of the more important things for church members to read. Like in any group, there are people with different viewpoints about a variety of topics. I'm not sure what these people you've met had issues with, but there's nothing in those essays that bother me.
Before anybody starts throwing insults about my church's history or policies, please understand that there is nuance to everything; let's not be reductive.
slayer1am@reddit
So, you've sat down and compared D&C 132 right alongside the essay on plural marriage?
I would strongly suggest giving that a try. It shows the clear contradictions in the doctrine.
NormalUpstandingGuy@reddit
When I first heard the story of Joseph Smith I thought “holy shit that’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. Why would anyone buy into this crap?” I’ve however since heard stupider things. Most Mormons I’ve met seem a little odd but who isn’t these days? Over all I can’t really be fucked to care about what anyone’s beliefs are so long as they don’t go out of their way to pester me with them.
FeijoaCowboy@reddit
Most of the Mormons I've met are... fine? I knew one Mormon kid who was kind of obnoxious, but he turned out okay.
The actual religion of Mormonism is pretty fucked.
CBTwitch@reddit
First person I ever met who I actually knew was Mormon was a really sweet guy. The Navy corrupted him terribly.
Most Mormons are super cool. The folks who do the home visits can be really not cool. The church as an entity itself is only just a few rungs lower than Scientology on the evil scale.
MagicMissile27@reddit
What I think as a Catholic about their religious beliefs is a more complex conversation. But what I think of the people themselves? Every Mormon family I've met has been polite and friendly, good folks who raise their kids and go about their business. They practice what they preach, generally speaking. We don't agree on religious doctrine, but I've found myself side by side with them on certain social issues or in the same line of work. I have had peers who are Mormon and took two years off of college to go on their mission trip, which honestly, I have a lot of respect for. One guy I know was in Guatemala for two years and came back speaking Spanish and super passionate about his faith.
Again, are there many things I disagree with them about? Oh yes. But they're generally decent people and I don't have some sort of "ooh, spooky Latter-day Saints" reaction.
feloniousskunk@reddit
I joined the Army because my folks couldn’t send me to college. I went to basic training and my school, when I came home my mom was a Mormon.
They prayed on an emotionally vulnerable woman, and said all of the things she needed to hear to not feel so untethered in the universe.
My mom flip flopped through religions when I was growing up, she was always looking. The Mormons not only welcomed her into their church, but when she was financially struggling, they paid the bills, when she needed to move, a bunch of strong young men were on her doorstep. They swooped in and provided the community and acceptance my mom had been desperate for.
Now I am an educated woman, and I find theology and philosophy to be titillating subjects. After a lot of study, I really wanted to know what my mom was being told, I can’t hate what I don’t understand. I have come to the conclusion that the South Park fellows nailed the explanation of Mormonism with the Book of Mormon. If you haven’t seen it, please watch, it perfectly explains the entire history of the church, and it is very engaging. Even the LDS church couldn’t argue that the show is completely historically accurate.
The church is a misogynistic organization, women aren’t allowed to reach the higher positions in the church, and they’re not allowed in certain parts of their temples. The sexism is casual and woven into every aspect of the church, anyone who says otherwise… is probably a mormon trying to defend this silly religion. It is silly. Watch Book Of Mormon.
Uberchelle@reddit
Mormon as a religion- whackadoo. Their founder, Joseph Smith, read magic tablets out of a magic hat and they have magic Mormon underwear and in the beginning they thought polygamy was cool until the state of Utah couldn’t become a U.S. state until they renounced polygamy. So they did.
(I find it funny as I’m a practicing Catholic and our religion has things like a brown scapular and we call dead body parts of saints “relics”, hahahaha!)
As a people, I grew up with some Mormon friends. Man, a lot of them are SUPER GENUINELY NICE, that you have to wonder if they have secret lives where they are doing complete 180’s. There is a huge pressure to conform in the religion. One of my friends from high school lied to her husband (who she’s been with for like 25 years) that she was a virgin when they got together and broke her hymen in some gymnastics accident. Us Catholics on the other hand, just sin and go to confession.
DueYogurt9@reddit
The theology and lifestyle definitely strike me as a bit strange at first glance but knowing that Utah, Idaho, and Wyoming (three states where LDS theology is very prevalent) all rank within the top 15 states for quality of life on paper, it certainly is not a theological orthodoxy without its benefits.
In part I think that derives from theological emphases on higher education, drug and alcohol consumption, and community involvement.
Utahns and Idahoans (unlike Oregonians and Californians) know how to keep their streets clean, and after years of living in Portland, that is very important to me.
Actuallynailpolish@reddit
I think they’re a cult. My evangelical mother also thought they were a cult.
Nice-Stuff-5711@reddit
Great designated drivers!
Wesperado@reddit
It's a cult and no one will be able to convince me otherwise
PlusAd423@reddit
They are pretty nice people.
JeanLucPicard1981@reddit
To those outside of their group, they are harmless. But to members inside their group it's abusive.
One thing I have learned from watching an ex-Mormon influence, is that most men are treated just as bad as the women. Everyone rallies to condemn women getting harmed via polyamory and rightly so. However, due to the fact some men get multiple wives, most only men are single and considered "lost". Oftentimes families will "dispose" of them by dropping them off far from home with few supplies because they are "lost" and won't be producing children. I'm not sure how often this happens, but it happens frequently enough that she mentioned it.
websterhamster@reddit
This is pure fantasy. Polygamy hasn't been practiced in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints since the 19th century.
The influencer was straight up lying. I suppose it's possible that a handful of people have done this in the past, but it's just not a thing that we would ever consider doing.
Level_Criticism_3387@reddit
I'm a Sagan-Day Atenist, so I don't have a dog in this fight—we're all just sentient starlight waiting for our parent star to run out of hydrogen and swallow us back up as a red giant. That said, it sounds like the influencer was describing Warren Jeffs' polygamist FLDS breakaway group down in Hildale and Colorado City along the Utah/Arizona border. Very much not part of the mainstream LDS church. I don't believe Utah would have been admitted as a state otherwise.
The-Wanderer-001@reddit
It's a cult. Basically a high control group that has found their niche in American society.
GamopetalousSwoop@reddit
I don’t really think much about them. I don’t agree with their views, but it does not bother me personally.
JLR-@reddit
They bapitized a deceased relative of mine after they died. I don't agree with that practice
Ryukion@reddit
Well I am from Maryland and atleast in my area (outside DC) there is actuallly a decent Mormon population, plus other groups like orthodox jews and stuff. Plenty of them went to my school.... mostly classic white kids with blonde hair with like 7 siblings lol. Usually their parents made good money too. But I was friends with a few and they were cool, not very judgemental and still could have a good time but didn't cuss/drink/smoke ect. Atleast from the outside, it is hard to hate them or find any obvious faults considering they try to put out a positive attitude.
As for the religion..... I know they can get very conservative and as usual that results in more restrictions for the women then the men. There is always talk about pressure to be perfect growing up, trying to follow all the rules and politics, even stuff like the mormon kids in my school going to a morning prayer at like 7am before school starts every day. But then you hear about other more serious allegations, like I have read that sometimes there is abuse from the priests in the church, which is kept queit about and not handled properly. I am also not a fan of any religion that tries to convert others..... so like catholics, muslims, mormons. All at some time in history or presently have gone to other countries and tried to erase cultures/religions and replace it with their own..... and only their own. So I have a big problem with that...... technically the mormons didn't use the violence or intimidation that the catholics and muslims were known for in the past, they just go on their mission and offer to help while trying to convince people to join their church, so its not quite as violent or aggressive..... but I still dont like it.
Leave these cultures alone to develop as they do.... even if they are topless with grass skirts, and pray to a skygod oceangod and earthgod, or to a "Mother Goddess" instead of a "Father God"... then that is what makes them unique and we shouldn't interfere, not try to change their culture/language/religion, or how they dress from natural woven clothes while half nude to wearing tshirts and jeans cause its more "proper" or what they claim god wants them to dress like or cover up. This just leads to less diversity and the loss of any unique aspects of various cultures or tribes.
Lazyassbummer@reddit
It’s a cult. Run far away. They lost me at magic underwear.
Jujknitsu@reddit
Another unfortunate cult
annaoze94@reddit
It's almost like white privilege to the extreme. But then they are also misogynistic and think the leader of the church is like god himself.
The Mormons I've met in real life are actually not that bad but when you ask them about their religion they're absolutely insane. Like a shit ton of white influencer moms with four plus kids are mormon a lot of the time. I wouldn't dare go to Utah unless I was learning to ski.
TDFPH@reddit
Culty
4Got2Flush@reddit
I live in NYC and have never encountered a mormon or given much thought to them. The only experience I have with mormonism is Book of Mormon on Broadway.
They're just another stupid religion like all the others, but they're especially harmful to others. I'm glad I don't ever have to interact with them.
Bigdaug@reddit
Mormons are as Christian as Muslims are.
DDemetriG@reddit
I don't really care that much about them. To be honest, I have more pressing things to worry about (like the Baptists that keep on leaving Pamphlets at my house because we have a Pride Flag up and to them that's a SIN.)
s_bastard0@reddit
They cray
megggie@reddit
Average American here, who was raised Christian (Catholic, specifically, and no longer any flavor of religion).
Mormons are a special kind of crazy. Men are typically ignorant socially and successful financially. Women are typically used, if not abused, usually both (I’d say 80% are raised to think it’s normal & okay, while 20% know what’s up but benefit as much as the men so they don’t care). Children are always brainwashed and verbally abused to think the above roles for men & women are okay and expected. Children are often physically and sexually abused, and because it’s so normalized in their echo-chamber communities, they grow up to similarly abuse their own children.
Overall, they are not good people who want nothing more than to prove to you they are THE BEST people.
IMO, based on a few people I have known who are LDS and a lot of people I know who are former LDS.
BrownDynamite94@reddit
I don't care if you choose to follow a certain faith / religion, as long as you don't try to force it upon me. When I was in college, I had several encounters with pushy mormons who were very insistent on me coming to their church to hang with their youth groups. When I refused, they kept pressing me & questioning why I didn't want to come by. After a few minutes of refusing, they eventually would leave me alone. It was not a pleasant experience, and I've had Jehova's witnesses do the same thing to me. It's fine if you're religious, but keep it to yourself. If I was interested in learning more about a religion, I would seek it out on my own.
Acrobatic-Tadpole-60@reddit
Why do you say that Protestants and Catholics viewing Mormons as non-Christians is niche? In my experience that’s a pretty mainstream Christian view in the US. Curious for others’ experiences though
Wafer_Stock@reddit
highly despise them and JWs both. I tend to have fun picking apart their religions and making them as uncomfortable as possible while in my presence. only ever found 1 that I thought was a nice guy. went to high school and graduated with him. haven't heard from him since high school tho. his family moved and dropped off the face of the earth basically.
1DietCokedUpChick@reddit
Mormons think that people respect them for their beliefs. They think people are impressed by their principles and people admire them for their inner light and obvious set-apartedness. In reality, though, if non-Mormons think of them at all (which they don’t), they find Mormon beliefs to be extremely odd and Mormons in general to be nice but brainwashed and/or naive and/or not very smart.
Source: I’m an ex-Mormon.
In church we would have faith-building lessons about how non-Mormons would come to Christ simply because their Mormon coworker seemed “different”. As if non-Mormons were absorbing God through osmosis.
Marcudemus@reddit
If any organization is so systemically abhorrent that there are entire support groups and counseling and mental health specialties built entirely around and specializing in supporting the people who have left said organization to relieve themselves of emotional baggage and get on with living their lives.....
Then your organization's probably pretty fucked up.
That's how I feel about the Mormon Church.
BankManager69420@reddit
I’m a Latter-day Saint myself so take this with a grain of salt, I will say there seems to be a lot of misconceptions. A lot of people think we’re all super Republican or that we don’t celebrate holidays, or can’t drink Coca Cola. None of those things are true. Generally it seems to be very regional. Based on my experience:
-West Coast: There’s a lot of us here so most people have a “Mormon friend”. We’re just another Christian Church that some people might find a bit odder than most. We stand out for our unique missionary program. Sometimes people confuse us with the (much weirder imo) Jehovahs’s Witnesses.
-South/Midwest: A lot of Southerners and Midwesterners I met were very closed minded. Many of them legitimately don’t consider us Christian. They’re polite but they want to “save my soul”.
-East Coast: never been here can’t speak for it. Probably closer to the west coast view but without as many of us.
Visual-Border2673@reddit
If you want a good and fascinating (ex) insiders look at the religion and practices, you may enjoy this channel. There was also a good documentary somewhere about Mormons settling Utah and trying to put up a passive aggressive fight with the federal government (it went both ways), but I can’t find it rn
https://youtube.com/@alyssadgrenfell?si=MEMV24aqPWvAaGMm
mortomr@reddit
As an adult, a lot of my best friends are LDS. Great folks. I came at it sideways though fundamentalist Christian youth, actually WENT TO SALT LAKE CITY TO PROSELYTIZE TO THEM. It was a girlfriend’s influence. I’m better now.
OlderNerd@reddit
They're nuts. But then I'm an atheist
MesaGeek@reddit
I assume they’re how South Park depicted them.
wisemonkey101@reddit
Not sure if I’m average but I think they are weird. Like exceptionally weird.
MetroBS@reddit
Their beliefs are kinda wonky but every Mormon I’ve ever met has been extraordinarily kind
Ambiti0nZ-@reddit
As someone who has lived in Arizona and now lives in Utah, albeit in SLC (they live in the burbs, not the city), Mormons are very different depending on a number of variables. They have their own geographic varieties, and several states have big strongholds (they're also big in Central Valley Ca, Hawaii, and Idaho). Overall, AZ Mormons were a lot more conservative and a bit delulu than my average Salt Lake Valley Mormon, albeit rural Utah and Utah Valley Mormons start to resemble the Gilbert AZ/former ranching AZ territory culture. Hawaii ones are often more Jack Mormons than pious ones. The ones deep into church matters and business often mention something about being high church Mormons, some Christian thing that I have yet to understand. Idaho is pepper territory, and many are getting ready for the end times. Anyway, if you're asking my take on the cult/religion itself is that they're a really whacky belief, with delulu quasi-polytheist believes that they're unwilling to come clean on, and, as a former/nominal Eastern Orthodox practitioner, they're definitely not Christian, at least not in the accepted sense. They're like a wild hybrid between Scientology, Buddhism, and Christinaity, with Christian imagery, nomenclature, and iconography.
websterhamster@reddit
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Christian
Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are, by definition Christian. However, we are not Creedal Christians, because we do not believe that the creedal councils, such as the Nicene council or Athanasian council, had any divine authority to redefine God.
We may have a few differing beliefs from Nicene Christians, but it is ignorant and incorrect to say that we aren't Christian ourselves (not to mention extremely offensive).
Ambiti0nZ-@reddit
Ah, yes. The traditional butthurt Mormon who gets upset when other Christians don't consider you Chrsitian. You're a dime a dozen. Sorry, brother. It's not even an unpopular opinion among Chrsitians.
websterhamster@reddit
It's okay. I'm saddened by your hostility, but I've been around long enough to be resigned to it. It stings because my faith in Jesus Christ is the most important aspect of my religious beliefs, and to be told that I'm not a Christian because I don't believe in the Nicene Creed will never stop baffling me.
To be clear, I would never say that someone who believes in a very different version of Christ that I believe in (the description of God and Christ in the orthodox creeds is ridiculous to me) is not a Christian. Fundamentally, all those who base their faith in Christ are Christians.
I wish you a good day! :)
Zestyclose_Media_548@reddit
You believe the words of a man that was a pedophile. Literally.
Ambiti0nZ-@reddit
I'm sorry, brother, but you're projecting. I'm not hostile to you. I'm just explaining core and fundamental differences that are not unique to Mormonism. It's just that most other cults that change core doctrines have the decency of declaring themselves different religions than appropriating the religious identity.
Yeah, Muslims also believe in Jesus, and that doesn't make them Christian. Mormonism is not a separate religion just because it doesn't abide by the Nicene synod or any other synods. It's intrinsically non-ecumenical, and it deviates in core text and canon. When you add an entire slate of literature, switch the canon and add polytheistic features in a Pantheon-like practice, you have no right to feel offended when others view such claims as dubious. Ad absurdum, if Mormons were to be considered Chsitians by the rest of the world, they would be the whacky crazy uncle that has wild takes at the Thanksgiving dinner.
Alas, it's not a situation without reversal. But that would take for the President of the Church, the Twelve, and the Quorum to admit, "alright, we've gone a little crazy with the lore. Tablets and Jesus in America we can do, but natives as the OG Jews and Mother in Heaven as an extra diety in a wild non-trinitarian doctrine is a bit much."
See what I mean? I guess y'all have made some progress by no longer becoming planets with wives being moons and shit. It's one step forward. But there's a lot more to undo until you can somewhat revert to the mean to be embraced by the rest of the Christian world. Protestants and non-Protestants bicker over iconoclasm and aniconism stemming from largely the same text body and canon. Y'all don't even use the same text. By as much as various denominations had killed each other in various religious wars, y'all's would've spawned a united crusade against you a few hundred years earlier.
websterhamster@reddit
I don't even know what this means lol. That was never a thing.
I don't need to be embraced. I would settle for not being constantly told by other Christians that I'm not a Christian. You're entitled to your beliefs, but that's one that it would be more polite for you to keep to yourself.
Ambiti0nZ-@reddit
It's about your church pushing back against claims of becoming planet-like structures in the afterlife due to the Buddhist-like doctrine of becoming more like God in eternity. It was popularized by the musical Book of Mormon, but, ironically, a slate of pious Mormons adopted the belief akin to Catholics adopting the view of hell from Dante.
If you don't need to be embraced, then you can keep your delusions to yourself. Given your unwillingness to accept comparative logic based on arguments comparing other cults, you have 0 right to tell me to keep my view to myself in a discussion about views in Mormons. And I'm not unique, brother. Most of the Christian world feels like this. I would like to reiterate my point about the crusade.
1lazyintellectual@reddit
Cult. I have a friend who is trying to leave “the church” after being raised in it. She was sexually abused by her older brothers, but, “they didn’t mean anything bad” and she, “shouldn’t make such a big deal over it”. People who she’s known her entire life have turned their backs on her. She’s a pariah. She’s constantly gaslit.
I worked with juvenile offenders and the worst SA offenders were LDS. They always wanted things to be, “handled within the church”. Are you kidding me? I have a two-year old victim that had to go to the ER for internal injuries. No thank you, your “church” has done enough.
It’s a whole lot of gross fundamentalism, toxic patriarchy and sexual abuse codified by out of touch men who want to maintain power. And get off my porch. Not interested. Fucking Mormons. JWs with blonde hair and big smiles. Gross.
Zestyclose_Media_548@reddit
All of this !
Unusual_Soup@reddit
A little culty and weird, but generally very nice and devoted people
OwlishIntergalactic@reddit
I was going to include the whole story about how I was Mormon as a child and ended up leaving the church around ten because my grandparents didn't want to drive me to the hours and hours of services and groups the missionaries were trying to get me into, and I am glad I left because at least when I came out as a lesbian I didn't have to lose my entire community. But you don't need to know more details than that. What you are probably looking for is more along the lines of this:
Most Mormons are, on the surface, really nice people. They are clean cut, they don't swear, they use polite language. They never drink or smoke. They are willing to help people out in a disaster with the caveat that most people need to be deserving of their help or willing to listen to their missionaries. In some areas, the community is pretty insular and children aren't allowed to befriend and hang out with non-Mormon children. It isn't the case everywhere and I think every different church has some super dedicated families and some who are less so.
The Mormon church only accepts LGBTQIA folks if they are actively working to deny that part of themselves. Membership in the church requires you to follow their strict rules of conduct. You probably aren't going to get excommunicated for drinking a caffeinated Pepsi, but you definitely will if someone tells your bishop you were kissing another girl.
In my area, Mormons are the primary drivers of book censorship attempts and attempts to ban age-appropriate, scientifically based sexual education. Members of their congregation are more than happy to pair with evangelicals and show up in large numbers to school board meetings to voice their disapproval of books that show children with two moms and two dads, books that say it's okay for girls to play with cars and boys to play with dolls, books that tell children that it is within their right to tell Aunt Marjory they don't want a kiss from her, and anything else they find morally reprehensible.
When I was in the church, I was taught how to be a good homemaker. I was taught to serve God and then my Grandfather who was the head of the house, and if I did everything right, God would find me a good and godly husband to serve. It is very hard to speak up against the man who is abusing you when you have been told that you have to obey because obedience is what God requires of children.
The Mormon church has a LOT of money and so do many of its congregants. While the church itself cannot endorse political candidates or it risks losing its tax exempt status, groups of Mormons will band together and fund the political campaigns of ultra conservative candidates. While they are not big fans of Trump and many aren't voting for him, they do back a lot of conservative school board, local, and state government candidates.
So, for me, they are predatory and cultlike and, like the evangelicals who like to deny they are Christian, they are working hard to create a political situation that is a lot friendlier to them and their religious doctrine. They try to grab on to the youth and keep them busy with services and other church sanctioned activities and away from, especially, non-religious children and families--essentially isolating them. Their beliefs in the rights of women are stuck in the 1800s. They have more money and political power than a church should ever have, and because they all seem so nice, polite, and helpful on the surface (and so many of them really are nice people who dedicate resources to a church that is harmful on a large scale) a lot of people overlook their influence.
Aromatic-Proof-5251@reddit
Joseph Smith read the golden plates. Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb.
No-Entertainment242@reddit
Anyone interested in the history and origins of Mormonism should read the book “No Man Knows My History“ by Fawn Brody. Most illuminating.
jastay3@reddit
Their just reasonably decent folk with a different religion than mine. The details are for theological wonkery and how they fit into things in the end will be judged by Someone Else. Theological wonkery is important in it's own way but nothing to hate people over and if you do that you aren't even getting your theology right (it says "love thy neighbor" more emphatically than "tell your neighbor how he is wrong"). Most Mormons are decent folk with good values who are good citizens, behave respectably, and in some cases know how to write fair science fiction.
GardenWitchMom@reddit
It's a cult. Pain and simple.
Zestyclose_Media_548@reddit
I think they almost are borderline abusive to women - and some are very abusive. They’ve contributed to really stupid names in our country. They glorify a way of life that only really works for a small portion of society and only makes a very small group of women happy.
Vachic09@reddit
Regular LDS: Unusual beliefs, typically larger families than average, but mostly very polite people
FLDS: cult
undangerous-367@reddit
Regular LDS is definitely a cult as well. Not always evil, but definitely a cult.
TopperMadeline@reddit
I don’t know enough about it to have an opinion.
Techialo@reddit
Mormons exist to show Christians how everybody else sees them.
neverdoneneverready@reddit
It's a fake religion. Organized pedophilia and polygamy. Read Under The Banner of Heaven if you want to know more.
cstar4004@reddit
I view them as a cult. They are known for having polygamous marriages, treating women like second class slaves, and marrying and raping children. They operate with legal impunity by using religious freedom as a shield from legal punishment.
There are an estimated 20-88 different sects of Mormonism. Some sects are more progressive and modern, while others are more fundamentalist and extreme. Im sure the severity of their crimes differ by sect.
Are they Christian?
Well… there are 7.9 Billion people on Earth, so you will find 7.9 Billion different opinions of what it means to be a “True Christian.” Seventh Day Adventists. Lutherans. Catholics. Mormons. Presbyterians. Methodist. Ladder Day Saints. Catholic. Royal Dominion. Episcopal.
Ask any one of them who the “Real Christian” is, and they will say it is themselves. They will cite their own interpretation of their own version of their own bible as the proof that their own sect is the real one.
DreamQueen710@reddit
Didn't realize it until I was in middle school, but I grew up around A LOT of Mormons. They were either some of the most attractive, or ugliest kids on campus during grade school. There was literally no in-between. They were nice, but still judgey, similar to Christian denomination stereotypes. As someone who grew up Christian, I'd still say Mormons in general more kind than your average christian. They had strict rules like catholics (caffeine is considered a drug and therefore a no-no, so they'd get those strawberry frappes from Starbucks, girls had to wear dresses to be in the main church room, etc.)
Iwentforalongwalk@reddit
They're good looking weirdos.
Hello_Hangnail@reddit
I see it as a cult and my catholic grandparents weirdly also saw it as a cult. One of the few things we agreed on
sociapathictendences@reddit
Here we go again
FREAKYASSN1GGGA@reddit
If you truly didn’t want to take part in the quarterly I hate Mormons thread, you would’ve not clicked on the post and kept scrolling. You got downvoted for being an attention seeker.
sociapathictendences@reddit
Uh huh
Seventh_Stater@reddit
I have nothing against them but think their religion is silly.
honey_graves@reddit
Nice people, everyday people but the church is a cult and I hope people are able to get out under its thumb
scificionado@reddit
It's a cult.
fruitfilled@reddit
I’ve never met one who wasn’t extremely nice to my face, and I have family who are Mormon. That being said I cannot morally support the organization. They are a cult that is detrimental to their members and to society as a whole
StinkieBritches@reddit
The Mormans I know are kind people, like really kind.
saikron@reddit
"Those funny people that used to knock on doors."
The average person doesn't know much more than that. Where I'm from, it was generally believed that they weren't "really" Christian, similar to Catholics.
Personally, they seem to believe a lot of the silliness that most Christians believe, while also believing even less credible things, like that Joseph Smith was a prophet or that true believers will achieve godlike powers in the afterlife.
candyposeidon@reddit
Fake Christian religion. Catholics look down on them.
LesFritesDeLaMaison@reddit
For me its blonde white people, I live in one of the most homogenous areas of the US, and we don’t get a lot of white/black/asian people, so seeing them its always like “oh look a mormon” same thing with “oh look a black person” not in ill intent whatsoever, its just we dont really see them in a daily basis.
FauxmingAtTheMouth@reddit
I was lucky enough to be able to tour the DC area temple before it was re-whatevered, it was remodeled and there was a brief period where non believers could tour it. It was gorgeous, but also, from my non believing point of view, very different and old fashioned seeming to me. Especially that underwear.
wabyt@reddit
I would guess that most views of Mormons is based a lot on hearsay or media (often poking fun at the religion). Where I grew up there were no practicing Mormons that I know if, however you will run into them pretty frequently in the military. Being pretty ignorant of the religion myself I actually just asked a friend I was serving with (and was Mormon) what the hell it was all about.
Going to admit I'm still pretty puzzled by many of their traditions, but you can say that about really anything outside one's own norm. Outside that I would say pretty consistently they are very hard working and loyal individuals. The one thing I would phrase them on is there focus on family, something much of America does not value the same as it did. The one negative I can say that some groups can isolate others that leave their church, but this habit isn't exclusive to Mormons.
FoolhardyBastard@reddit
Rich white folks from Utah. The religion is a breeding ground for cult development. Many cults have spawned off of it. They are friendly in a scary way. So friendly it’s off-putting, which is weird for generally friendly Americans.
Kool_McKool@reddit
My parents taught me better than to believe in heresy.
kiiribat@reddit
I feel like most of us don’t know that much about them and what we do know is strange.
kjacmuse@reddit
As a minority myself, Mormon folks were some of the few who were extremely respectful to me as a young person. I got to tour a temple before dedication and it was just stunning, and folks were so generous. Is the history even a bit accurate? Hell no. But I count Mormons among the kindest folks I know. Plus, they were the ones laughing when the COVID lockdown hit and they had a year’s supply of food and supplies in their houses!
seriouslysosweet@reddit
I live in a community with lots of Mormons. Ironically it brings in lots of Hawaiian restaurants and exterminators. They don’t drink coffee but they do drink soda and mix dirty sodas which doesn’t have alcohol.
They don’t drink alcohol. They attend public school but have church classes before school. Many are wealthy and own the land. They seem to have strong convictions but I come across Mormon men who seem interested in the ladies, beyond their wives. I think when you have such a strict religion the women get caught up on running the house and family and the breadmaking men get caught up on reality of what pulls their chain.
Kineth@reddit
Christian fan fiction.
steveofthejungle@reddit
I’m here in Utah. There’s really two sides to SLC, and that’s people who’ve been here for six weeks, and people who have been here for six generations. Most of my friends here in the city are also transplants like me, mostly from the Midwest or the Northeastern. I have a few coworkers who are LDS, who of course are very nice and I have no problem with them one-on-one. Wish we could even have a cup of coffee, but hey, you do you. However, I really dislike how the church tries to make the state as much of a theocracy as possible. For example, the state overrode a statewide vote to have an independent committee make the congressional districts for the state, and instead made their own which splits the state into four solidly republican districts, instead of allowing for one blue district in and around SLC. I also hate the dumb restrictions on alcohol, and weed will only be legal here when it’s federally legal. On a more personal level, they seem to love chain restaurants, which really limits the food scene in this city. As a whole, I don’t mind sharing a community with them, as there are several good aspects to the faith, especially the sense of community, but I’ve heard stories where the one non-Mormon on the street was ostracized and harshly judged by the rest of the street.
I do think it’s a bit of a cult though. Just drink the fucking coffee, it’s much more healthy than cokes with heavy cream and even more sugar added.
Wermys@reddit
That wasn't the church that did that for the districts though. That was the Republican party of the state. Remember the rank and file are pretty much non political in the sense that what they care about is if money is being spent and not wasted and is the taxes as low as possible within reasonable levels. Otherwise as long as the state Republicans do that they really don't pay much attention to politics. If you give them a policy position that is reasonable they will vote for it. But if the state Republican party can see it will cost them some of there grip on power they will let the measure go through then nuke it after the fact when people aren't really paying attention as much. Been like that since Norm was governor.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit
Would other SLC transplants buy that t-shirt?
steveofthejungle@reddit
Hahaha I wouldn’t buy it but I’d laugh at it if I saw it in a store 😂
TexasRedFox@reddit
Most of the info I know about Mormons I get from South Park, so don’t ask me, lmao!
britney412@reddit
Scandalous and boring.
clarheart@reddit
I may not be the average American but I am ex-Mormon and all of my family is still LDS. I think Mormons in general are good people and do their best to be Christlike, however there are some underlying teachings that make them subconsciously think they are better than everyone else (because they believe they are members of the one and only fully true church and that no one can truly find true happiness outside of the lds church). But like I said, they don’t usually realize that they feel or act this way towards others, I didn’t until after I left. Overall I think most Mormons are great people but the church itself as an organization is manipulative, controlling, and greedy.
inailedyoursister@reddit
Cult.
FinalAd9844@reddit
Cult-like religion with concerning and absurd mythology compared to the original bible
websterhamster@reddit
Mormonism in general and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints specifically is the most hated religious group in the United States.
iscreamsunday@reddit
That would be Islam
PPKA2757@reddit
Lived in Salt Lake City for a few years (plus there’s a fair number of LDS folk who live in Arizona), have a fair number of still practicing and former LDS friends. The church gets a very bad rap for being a modern day cult -which, in my opinion it’s verrrry close to being one and its members are often portrayed as fanatical.
Truth is: They’re regular people like you and me. Some of them may have their quirks that give off “sheltered childhood” vibes, but otherwise you wouldn’t be able to tell the difference if you met them on the street.
99% of them are just a regular Joe/jill’s who happens to be devout to their religion. No more odd than a well mannered teetotaler who isn’t religious (or religious to another denomination). They’re not in your face about it.
Now, there are definitely some hardcore LDS people out there who are in your face about it, and will absolutely judge you for the sinner you are by not being a member (cough, my old boss). They exist, but even in the heart of Utah they’re more few and far between, and most everyday LDS members either ignore them and would tell you to do the same.
olyfrijole@reddit
Extremist Morons are ruining Idaho.
iscreamsunday@reddit
Truth^^^
iscreamsunday@reddit
Most in the roles of official LDS populations aren’t practicing.
The church just stays quiet about them or tries to shame them into coming back to church
iscreamsunday@reddit
Hi, exmormon here.
60-70% of all Mormonism (including both practicing and non-practicing LDS, community of Christ, and exmos) are just like regular people and you wouldn’t be able to tell the difference unless you bring up coffee or say the word “garments”
The other 30-ish percent are hardcore fundamentalists and ultra devout who are nice but weird.
Perceptions will really depend on where you go in America.
In most of Utah for example, “the church” has a major say in politics, culture, and state legislation. And it’s a big factor in states like Arizona, Idaho, Nevada with cultural Mormonism pockets in California, Washington, Texas, Wyoming, Virginia and Florida.
Matty_D47@reddit
Weird cult full of creepily nice people
Wermys@reddit
I grew up in Utah from the age of 11 to the age of 20. I am not LDS but I lived in an area that had high concentrations of Mormons. I will say this. The biggest difference growing up was the language. They don't cuss, but love to substitute words. So instead of saying shit, it was shoot. Instead of God Damnit, it was gosh darnit. They love Basketball, they love food, they love football. They try to east healthy when they can. There whole belief structure is around family units and look at the community as a whole or rather there stake as extended family. If I were younger and I had a family, I would have no problem raising kids in these types of environments. It showed me truly how shit my parents were in comparison. And I was jealous looking back on my friends in how they grew up. Religion with them wasn't there whole life contrary to what people will say. It was just who they were. They didn't go out of there way to try to convert me. They just lived there life. Missionary work is when they try to do that. Otherwise if you had questions they would happily answer them. Otherwise they were fairly normal people who just didn't drink or smoke. But otherwise I have a really high opinion of them in general. Living in the midwest I am in an area where I have a lot of "christians" who are so full of shit they make me sick. While Mormons that I grew up with weren't like that at all. Yeah they didn't agree with gay marriage, or hated abortion. But at the same time, they walked the walk as far as there politics were concerned. Unlike a lot of the christians out here. Anyways point being, I respect them a lot I don't agree with them politically a lot of the time. But I respect them enough where I do believe they try to always do what they think is the right thing. And not just trying to pretend to be something they aren't if that makes a lot of sense.
designgrl@reddit
I just had a 9 hour flight with a Mormon couple, one’s mom converted from being a Jew to one for his dad. It’s basically a cult (even they said), very interesting, yet weird.
TruCat87@reddit
It's a cult.
BluudLust@reddit
Some come off as overly religious and culty, and the some come across as the benefits being worth more than the 10% tithe.
Gex2-EnterTheGecko@reddit
Mormons are generally incredibly kind people who are unfortunately trapped in an obvious cult that has been around long enough for it to be viewed as a legitimate religion by some people.
I briefly dated an ex-Mormon (as in, she left the church like 6 months before I met her) and she was the sweetest person, but they did a NUMBER on her. She would get incredibly upset if I drank a beer with a friend at a bar (she wasn't controlling and didn't tell me what to do, but she really hated drinking in any context, she even disliked me drinking coffee), she refused to watch rated R movies, she would get sad if I cursed at all, etc.
Also, she was horrifically sexually abused by a member of the church as a very young child, so physical intimacy was obviously very challenging for her. so take that for what you will. I have a feeling from talking to her about her abuse that it's not uncommon in the LDS church, but they do a better job of keeping it buttoned up than the catholics do (this is just my experience as an outsider, I am not saying all Mormons are OK with abuse)
Personally I find it frustrating that so many good people are tied up in what I consider to be a cult, but I guess that's just how cults are. It makes me sad.
SteveCastGames@reddit
Knew a few growing up. Nice enough people, but a weird religion that borders on being a cult.
Texan2116@reddit
I know nothing of the faith, but my Dr is one. I know he volunteers on a regular basis, so make of that what you will. He seems like a very decent person.
thedawntreader85@reddit
Joseph Smith always seemed like a con man cult leader to me. Most mormans I know are lovely people and seem more like regular Christians to me.
Infamous-Hope-5950@reddit
that one south park episode
gypsymegan06@reddit
They’re a super gross cult that actively dislikes women, non whites, etc. I lived in Colorado for a year and they were everywhere. Totally remind me of JW’s
ComfortablyyNumb@reddit
I haven’t had a lot of exposure to Mormon people as far as I know, but I was a volunteer with the Red Cross and helped with a Disaster Preparedness event that was being held at the local Latter Day Saints Church.
Before this event, I had some preconceived ideas about Mormon’s, but that sure did change. The people were amazingly kind and exuded genuine happiness. I learned these people put a lot of effort into helping the community around them. I am not exaggerating when I say I have never felt such a positive, peaceful feeling from a group of strangers. It was completely unexpected.
Mmmmmmm_Bacon@reddit
Buncha freaks. But I’m against all religions so I view all religious people as freaks.
Learned_Barbarian@reddit
There's not really an average view on them.
Most people who live around them, think of them as pleasant, socially conservative, family oriented people who don't drink or do drugs and kind of stick to themselves.
Atheists and other brands of edgy anti-traditionalists who have a media crafted image of them, see them as being basically the same as various brands of socially conservative Protestants in the US, with a couple of different weird ideas that set them apart, but don't create fundamentally different people. Your average UC Berkeley grad with a political science degree see them as essentially the same as Southern Baptists or Lutherans.
Traditionalist and orthodox conservative Christians (Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox) often consider them to not be Christians as they don't subscribe to all the tenants of the Nicene Creed.
Congregator@reddit
A lot of Mormons are average Americans. I have a friend who was brought up Mormon and I would visit his house when I was a kid.
Him, his brother and I would skateboard and try to start rock bands in our teenage years.
FlyByPC@reddit
Christianity, with Magic Underwear?
Ralph_O_nator@reddit
Mormons are usually very nice people on the surface. I don’t really accept them as a Christian religion (Lutheran, Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, et cetera). So much so, If you were brought up with any of the Christian religions and went to a Mass or service you’d be able to, generally, follow along and it would feel familiar with the same (almost) holy books used. If you went to a Mormon service it would not be familiar. I’ve had Mormon friends and there can be large rifts behind closed doors regarding dating, sex, race, and social issues. Do I care? No. I’ve met a whole spectrum of people from different religions/walks of life and I focus much more on the individual person than the religion.
rosietherosebud@reddit
The average Joe sees them as Cult Lite. Normal enough to be neighbors with, but you'll get some raised eyebrows if you tell someone you're a Mormon.
four20kitten@reddit
Crazy weird religious people who are likely from Utah. Stay away.
Wadsworth_McStumpy@reddit
Average Joe doesn't know that much about them, and views them with the same "Whatever, just don't talk to me about it" attitude that they view other religions.
Of course, some people are strongly opposed to them, because there's always a small group of people who are strongly opposed to anything.
Personally, I've found that the ones I've known have been pretty good people. I assume there are some who are not, because any large group will have some people who are not good people.
peoriagrace@reddit
The Mormon's I've met have been nice decent people, but their religion is a bit strange.
Wooden_Airport6331@reddit
It’s a cult made up of the most gullible and brainwashed people. Most of them are nice enough as individuals but they have some truly unhinged beliefs. I believe this is a fairly common opinion.
Jerrys_Puffy_Shirt@reddit
The people are nice, their religion is weird and made up
anneylani@reddit
Cult. Patriarchal. Dangerous. Lots of money being laundered.
Nova_Echo@reddit
They're tight-ass religious folks with no sense of humor, at least where I'm from. Can't speak for the rest of the country. Decent neighbors, though. They don't cause any trouble.
Helena_Hyena@reddit
I’ve heard a lot of ex-Mormon’s refer to it as a cult, so I’m going to take their word for it.
OpulentReliever@reddit
I grew up in the Deep South and there weren’t a lot of Mormons but I had a best male friend in high school who was a faithful believing Mormon. Because of my closeness to him I was spared the view of them being so nice and wholesome that a lot of people have. While this may be unsettling for some to read, I think that Mormons are one of the most manipulated and controlled groups of people in America.
I felt that his church required a lot of him, and they didn’t really look out for him and his siblings in the way one would hope. His parents had 14 children and the kids raise themselves and each other. The parents literally had a separate house on the property and when the kids got to a certain age they moved into a trailer on the property with the other older siblings. There was a lot of abuse and neglect that they experienced and no one ever did anything about it. He was very concerned with being good enough to go on his mission which I think caused him a lot of psychological anguish because some of the abuse in his household precluded him from being eligible.
He was and is a really funny, smart guy who had his full potential throttled by religious beliefs that he didn’t choose for himself. When he eventually moved to Utah and got married in the temple I was one of the only people from back home invited and opted to not go because I was confused and hurt that I was not allowed in the temple.
By the time I understood that I was allowed at the celebration and that no one off the street could just waltz into the temple it was too late to go. Temples aren’t churches and you have to be a Mormon who’s done the full song and dance to go in them.
Add all of the LDS murder cases and child abuse cases of late and I just feel super sad for them all.
bonvoyageespionage@reddit
Maybe I'm not average, but it kinda baffles me that people are just okay with Mormons. They're up there with Westboro in my head in terms of evil xtians. Like they did not think Black people had souls til the 80s (I know they officially decided Black people were people in 78, but that's 80s enough).
young_comrade_@reddit
They’re made fun of
BAC2Think@reddit
Was raised Mormon, it's a cult
granted most religions have some overlap in their venn diagram with cults, but there isn't a single aspect of life that Mormons don't think they should have significant input if not general control over.
The indoctrination starts at the earliest possible opportunities
The "doctrine" is actively falling apart including a recent announcement of "temporary commandments".
They fought in court against being mandated reporting with regards to sexual misconduct. They are also taking their insurance for sexual misconduct settlements to court because according to the insurance provider they didn't follow the minimum standards of their policy. Some of you might be aware of a segment done by 60 minutes that outlined a $5 million fine/settlement because they were actively trying to hide money in shell companies.
They seem to be heavily focused on acquiring real estate of late.
TelevisionNo4428@reddit
Very nice people usually, but so deep into their belief bubble that they can’t see that the emperor has no clothes.
animal_wax@reddit
Honestly. I only have met one Mormon in my life (I live in CT) and he was a really nice guy. Didn’t seem really extreme in his religious beliefs but followed them. I’ve seen some Warren Jeff’s documentaries but I know FLDS and LDS are a bit different. What the beliefs are based on seems bananas
OverSearch@reddit
I've known several Mormons. Other than not drinking soda they were pretty much just like everyone else.
jcstan05@reddit
I should point out that preferences vary from person to person, but soda (carbonated soft drinks) aren't against the church's standards. Some choose not to drink caffeine, but that's not forbidden either. Coffee, tea, and alcoholic drinks are the line for the organization itself and virtually all individuals.
slayer1am@reddit
Why are coffee and tea forbidden? There are numerous health benefits for both. It's sort of understandable to avoid alcohol, but the other two are utterly senseless.
eliminate1337@reddit
God said so.
https://faq.churchofjesuschrist.org/can-mormons-drink-coffee
slayer1am@reddit
To be clear, the guy that married underage girls, scammed people with a fake treasure hunting business, and grossly mistranslated an Egyptian funery tablet, somehow got a special word about hot drinks being bad?
Makes ZERO sense. But go ahead and follow that nonsense if it makes you happy.
eliminate1337@reddit
Lol I'm not Mormon. I'm telling you their reasoning. It's not based on any sort of reasoning about health, they believe it is a divine command.
websterhamster@reddit
There is no answer to this question. They just are.
imthesqwid@reddit
Wait until this guy learns there are “soda shops” on every corner in Utah
_gooder@reddit
Very similar to my view on every religion. They're all emotionally manipulative efforts to control other people.
VampireGremlin@reddit
I never met a mormon but I've heard they're really friendly.
cometssaywhoosh@reddit
Non Christians think they're a little weird but friendly people.
Mainstream Christians believe they're heretics
Religious non Christians think of them as some weird cult that even Christians don't like
imhereforthemeta@reddit
I have lived in areas with a lot of Mormons and as an outsider who has never really had to experience the oppression of having family, who are Mormon, I have mostly had good experiences with them. I feel like they mostly stay out of my business and have been relatively kind to our family despite being atheist. They make really good sweets, and dealing with them on a professional level is usually pretty good.
I think that Mormonism is probably God awful if they have any power over you, but day-to-day interactions with Mormons are significantly better evangelicals in my opinion. They are raised to have a sense of at least fake niceness, which results in better interactive experiences for everybody.
gloandi@reddit
My honest opinions on the church would probably get me downvoted to oblivion, so I'll just say I have an immensely negative view of them.
Oomlotte99@reddit
Honestly, as someone who grew up with no religion it is very strange to me. Their premise of their religion is stranger than the others. I feel like it’s a cult that got legitimized.
They seem like nice people on a personal level, however. I just feel bad for them that they’re in that position. The proselytizing is also a big turn off.
KR1735@reddit
Very nice people, very weird religion
Medium_Sized_Brow@reddit
It's essentially a well-established cult.
Their communities generally keep to themselves and most people outside of Utah haven't even met one.
I personally think their beliefs are wild, some career conman just made some shit up, and people to this day can't see past the BS.
That's what happens when you indoctrinate children and isolate your community. Cult.
mav3r1ck92691@reddit
Generally super nice people, but it's still a cult.
favouritemistake@reddit
There are plenty in my area. Super nice people, maybe a little awkward sometimes, evangelism is annoying no matter who is doing. My intro to Mormons was a Mormon girl in my class randomly asking me if I thought all Mormons are going to hell. I asked, “what’s a Mormon?”
MeanestNiceLady@reddit
They walk the walk..
_scrambled_egg_@reddit
They're notoriously nice but everyone who leaves talks about how awful it is.
schmelk1000@reddit
Shits wack
dmbgreen@reddit
I worked with and for some, basically nice people.
mch301@reddit
They are the subject of a fine Broadway show.
KingDarius89@reddit
Eh. I'm an atheist. That being said, my paternal grandmother was a Mormon (and my grandfather was Roman Catholic. They had 8 kids).
And while Utah is definitely where the largest concentration of Mormons are (supposedly anyone with the last name Simpson in the SLC area is likely a distant cousin due to a polygamist ancestor), they are still decent amounts elsewhere. My grandma was born in Nevada. And there was a decent presence in the Sacramento area of California.
As to the views towards them, it varies but generally just considered a slightly weird offshoot of Christianity with the occasional asshole just like any other sect.
Well, that, and rich assholes from out of state using their money to interfere in California politics.
Some are nice people. Some aren't.
eijtn@reddit
Capitalism made into a religion.
RoyalPanda7146@reddit
I’m exmormon. Left at 29, so I was deeply Mormon until then. I think this makes me a bit of an expert in the field. They are brainwashed. Point blank period. Many MANY people (since the internet) have left. There’s a bit of sadness that comes with observing 19 year old programmed kids sent around the world to proselytize. Luckily I did not go on a mission, but my husband did (he is also exmormon). The religion is deeply tied into not just the history of Utah, but the history of American culture and the bursts of Christian offshoots in the early 1800’s. Mormonism (and its spin-offs) has a very complex, painful, and yet fascinating history. I belonged to the mainstream (aka the most popular one). But I’ve known people in smaller factions of “Mormons” that still practice polygamy.
Fillmore_the_Puppy@reddit
I honestly don't know how the average American views them. I personally wouldn't care at all about their religion if they didn't wield such disproportionate political power.
Wolf482@reddit
I don't personally follow Mormonism, but I think I know a little bit about it. Two of my best friends are Mormon. When I went through my divorce, I was in a low spot in my life. My friend invited me to his church. I went, and just being back in a church felt soothing to my soul. Afterward, the Elder had asked me if I was interested in joining LDS. I politely declined, but I did say I would be back if he would accept me. The people there were all extremely kind and asked me my story if I was willing to tell it. They even offered help to me if I needed it. In late August of 2017, my friend had moved away, and it was time for me to move home as well. I was unable to find work, and I had to move back to Michigan. I had my moving truck outside and struggling to move an entire couch down a flight of stairs. During my struggle, some kids from the LDS church had been sent to help me. My best friend called the church, and the church extended help to get me out of Oklahoma and back home by helping me move. For that and their support, as well as trying to help me find work forever, won me over. It's not my personal brand of Christianity, but the church helped me physically and mentally when I needed it most.
wooq@reddit
I had several mormon friends in school. They were all good people. Didn't talk about their religion much, because they knew it wasn't mainstream. I think the religion and its origins are silly, but I think that about most religions. And as with most religions there are weirdo extremists and corrupt officials out there, but that doesn't describe most adherents, who are usually just regular folks trying to get by like any of us.
Low-Cat4360@reddit
I avoid them as best I can. They're very outspoken about their religion to the point it's annoying. They will also show up at your house to tell you more about it
Team503@reddit
They’re really nice on the surface and usually quite attractive, but also batshit cultists.
Pleasant-Pattern7748@reddit
🤨
Walnuss_Bleistift@reddit
Pennsylvanian here - We don't have many Mormons in my area, though there are some. I don't think anyone gives them much thought, tbh. Probably more than anything they're joked about, like in reference to sister-wives or their weird sex work arounds. Not having a high concentration of them here, Mormonism isn't taken seriously in any respect. It's well known that they don't drink, and that can be seen as unusual, but moreso in the respect that it seems too uptight and restricting. There are lots of other religions or reasons why people don't drink and it's not really made fun of per se, more like some people think it's unusual sometimes.
Dr_Scientist_@reddit
Religious wierdos.
Interanal_Exam@reddit
Long running grift just like every other religion. Made kookier than the original it is parasitizing (Christianity).
catladywithallergies@reddit
they have a lot of kids
Zagaroth@reddit
I tend to lump them in with all the other Abrahamic religions, just with a newer spin and more weirdness. Mostly because the rough edges haven't had enough centuries to file them off.
The newer a religion, the weirder it tends to be.
El_gato_picante@reddit
Definitely not a cult/s
Realm117@reddit
There's a huge Mormon temple close to where I live, so I've met a few, though the ones I've met aren't ultra-religious.
They're ok. I've never had any issue with Mormon people or their beliefs, odd as their beliefs are to me- if anything, I respect them for having faith with such nebulous origins and bizarre mythology. They seem genuinely well-intentioned and mild mannered, better than a lot ot fundamentalist Christians I've met.
I haven't had any missionaries come to my door, but if and when the day comes, I wouldn't mind letting them in for a minute just to sit down.
Clambake42@reddit
Coming from the Washington, DC area... they scare me. A huge number of national security positions and agencies are made up of a disproportionally large number of LDS folks.
websterhamster@reddit
The missions that our young people serve (2 years for young men, 18 months for young women) provide excellent training for work in national security and the State department. Many of these young missionaries learn new languages and become quite fluent in them, and they learn the culture and way of life of people in other countries in a more intimate and authentic way than the average American. Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are, thus, ideal candidates for positions in intelligence, national security, and the State department.
Clambake42@reddit
They also sail through the clearance process in part due to the LDS lifestyle.
needmoarbass@reddit
Weirdos.
theatremom2016@reddit
The folks are always nice from my experience. I just respect their culture, like it's the people our country was made or something.
lostnumber08@reddit
Their church, like all churches, is wrought with sexual abuse scandals. They wear magical underwear. Their “prophet” is an actual convicted fraudster and conman.
websterhamster@reddit
Our prophet is actually a celebrated heart surgeon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_M._Nelson
lostnumber08@reddit
I should have been more clear; I was talking about Joseph Smith. THIS GUY.
websterhamster@reddit
Just clarifying.
Also, Joseph Smith was never convicted of fraud. Now you know! :)
lostnumber08@reddit
There might be other words for taking someone's money after lying to them; I'm not an expert on these matters. You can believe what the church tells you, or you can look at the documents for yourself. He also was absolutely bedding his followers wives too. Definitely the kind of person you want to exalt and look up to.
websterhamster@reddit
Those documents don't support the claims you are making, however.
Anyways, none of that has much bearing on my personal faith. May you find as much peace and solace in your faith that I find in mine!
:)
BigPapaJava@reddit
I think to most Americans, the LDS church and Mormons come off as very wholesome due to their emphasis on family and avoidance of drinking, drugs, tobacco, r-rated movies, caffeine, etc. If you’re not Mormon, you’re probably not that familiar with their actual religious practices or history besides knowing there are a bunch in Utah and they used to practice polygamy.
The South Park creators have lampooned them mercilessly for about 30 years and that has influenced how many non-Mormons view LDS, if they have any idea of Mormon doctrine.
Personally, I live in a heavily Evangelical area. Some years ago, a big group of them did a convention in Salt Lake City (home of the literal Mormon temple) and tried to convert them.
As a result, we got a couple of years of young Mormon missionaries in their white shirts and ties riding door to door on bicycles, here. They were always nice and dressed like they’d just left a nice school.
EndlessDreamer1@reddit
I think most Americans are skeptical of religious institutions in general, particularly on Reddit. I don't agree with the other people comparing Mormons to the Jehovah's Witnesses or calling them a cult. They have a questionable past, but so do most religious movements to a degree. Almost every Mormon I've met has been kind, devout, and family-oriented; I think they get more criticism than they deserve, at least compared to other religious organizations. I wish other American Christians took their beliefs as seriously as the Mormons do.
Superb_Item6839@reddit
Some of my family are ex Mormons. Mormons are super nice, but their religion is super toxic and rife with racism, homophobia, and bigotry in general. It's also a pretty silly religion like Scientology because it's so obvious that it's bullshit.
demafrost@reddit
Depends on where you live. Since you said average Americans I'll assume you aren't asking someone that lives in Utah. They are mostly a curiosity, sometimes the butt of jokes (fairly or not). Honestly I don't really encounter many Mormons except for a period of time where a company I worked for had an office in SLC. There was really nothing different about them except they didn't drink when we went out and for some I had to watch my language around them as they didn't appreciate swearing.
They are just normal Americans like everyone else that has a different belief system than I do.
Vegetable_Burrito@reddit
More culty than most mainstream religions, but JWs are up there.
jennyrules@reddit
When I think of Mormonism I think of polygamy. Don't care for it.
HereComesTheVroom@reddit
The Church itself? Weird and controlling of their members in a way I can’t respect.
Mormons themselves? No issues whatsoever.
Turdle_Vic@reddit
SoCal here! Their religion and way of life is somewhat negatively viewed. My family absolutely hates them but especially the FLDS
lyra1227@reddit
Growing up my mom told me not to open the door for them or the Jehovah's Witnesses.
Holiday_Blackberry35@reddit
Insane people. Every single one I’ve met has some weird obsessions and sexual fantasies and go completely against their own teachings. Dated one for a while and he cheated with many people (men and women). Got SA’ed by another at a very young age. The list goes on. Sure there may be some good ones but I avoid them completely now as they have some strange beliefs and are pretty cultish, as are their families.
drewcandraw@reddit
Stereotypically, first impressions of Mormons are very nice, pleasant people, clean-cut, modest in dress, who totally abstain from alcohol and caffeine. Growing up going to a Baptist church every Sunday, we were taught that Mormons were a cult, because their sacred texts included more than the Old and New Testaments and because its origin can be attributed to one person in a point and time in not-ancient history.
As a community, the LDS church is very socially-conservative, very effective at organizing their congregation and raising money. They lent a lot of their institutional might to pass Proposition 8 in California in 2008, with a lot of donations and volunteers coming from outside the state.
DontRunReds@reddit
I grew up Catholic until I left the church in a religiously pluralistic area that also has a decent proof Mormons.
Latter-day Saints, like Catholics, belong to a religious denomination that denies women leadership positions within the church power structure. These sects, like many others in Abrahamic religions, promote a sexist patriarchy and are therefore inherently discriminatory towards women and girls.
What do I think of the specific mythology surrounding Mormonism? It's really not more outlandish or unbelievable than all of the other bullshit you hear from Baptists, Catholics, or anyone else.
Arcaeca2@reddit
I was raised Mormon, now inactive, but not ex-Mormon.
According to a recent Pew survey, they're one of the most disliked religious groups in the country.
My experience on Reddit specifically is that non-Mormons do not know anything about the operation and culture of the church but are very, very eager to fill that void with the most outlandish bullshit made up by ex-Mormons.
drumzandice@reddit
I work with one, he's awesome - super great guy. We just don't discuss religion.
nauticalfiesta@reddit
They're a cult.
Bonzo4691@reddit
Just another fucked up cult wearing weird underwear
bh8114@reddit
I know many Mormons and until I drove through Utah on a road trip this spring, I had never been there. I grew up in an evangelical Christian household (no longer religious) and everyone I knew in my religious circles thought they were not Christian’s but in a cult. I had a lot of morman friends and thought they were no more cultish than what I was living in (prettty cultish therefore why I am not a part of it).
Last_Book2410@reddit
Watch the episode of South Park lol
SynesthesiaLady@reddit
Mormons suck. How they acquired their scripture doesn't make sense and it's obviously a bunch of bull. They're the preachiest and most insufferable of all the US religions. They make Utah lame with their "old guy" laws.
Bacontoad@reddit
I think Mormonism is silly, but Mormons are also some of the nicest people I've ever met.
drewcandraw@reddit
In the Baptist church my family attended every Sunday, we were taught in Sunday School and by our parents that Mormons—with their all-around niceness, modest and clean-cut appearances, and total abstinence from alcohol and caffeine, were among the best people we may ever meet, even better than many self-identifying Christians—by the world's standards.
We were also taught that because Mormons' sacred texts included more than the Old and New Testaments, and detailing some of the cosmic beliefs in the Book of Mormon that we considered weird is what made them a cult, categorically not Christian, and therefore subject to the fires of hell.
I wouldn't meet a Mormon until I was about 16 and working at Kmart in the early 90s. A coworker who trained me was Mormon. Really nice guy a few years older than me, very patient, hard worker, high integrity. I've met a few more in my life since. I've known them to be very nice, clean-living people who don't outwardly 'share Jesus' like we were taught to do.
You don't want to run afoul of a Mormon community, though, because they can be very effective at using their institutional might to come down on people they don't like. In US politics, the LDS church is very effective at organizing and raising money from their congregants, which makes them a radical splinter faction of social conservatives. In the 2008 election, they lent a lot of money and organizing efforts to defeat California's Proposition 8, with many donations and volunteers coming from out of state.
thatoneguy5464@reddit
The Mormon church is honestly crazy. On the surface they portray themselves like a denomination of Christianity (like baptist, Methodist, etc) however digging into what they actually believe is where the crazy stuff happens. Most people that are indifferent or accepting of the Mormon church are either non-religious people or people that don't actually know what the LDS church believes.
I'd say most Americans that know of the beliefs of the LDS church are not accepting of them. Look at South park's depiction of the LDS church.
GodzillaDrinks@reddit
Met some ex-mormons. Honestly, the religion feels like a cult. But so do most US churches (and probably churches anywhere else).
They, like most ex-vangelicals, mostly seem to agree that life gets better when you get out. But its hard to get out from because that does mean getting shunned by your whole family and the community you grew up in.
websterhamster@reddit
We don't practice shunning. That's not to say that a few weirdos might decide to shun their family who leave the Church, but as a rule we are against shunning.
WinterKnigget@reddit
Here's mine, plus some context.
I'm Jewish. When I was young, my family moved to Salt Lake City. I was 8, my brother was 5.
We had Mormon missionaries at our synagogue on Yom Kippur (the Day of Atonement, one of the holiest days of the Jewish calendar) telling us that we'd better convert or we'd be thing to hell. Again, I was 8, and my brother was 5 at the time. A bunch of people tried to convert us in other times too. Luckily, most of the kids in school were very nice and I didn't face the conversion speech in school. My parents got it a lot
When I was in college, I was living in Anaheim near Disneyland. My roommate was Mormon though born in California. (Important distinction lol.) We got to talking about religion. I said that I thought Mormons were a bit crazy. She asked what kind of experience do I have with Mormons. I told her I'm Jewish and the Yom Kippur story. Then I asked her the same question. Turns out, she was Mormon and lived in Salt Lake at the same time as I did. Then she said that Utah Mormons are nuts, but that Mormons from other states tend to be less overzealous. I have since adopted that POV
RolandDeepson@reddit
"HoW dO yOu aMeRiCaNs ViEw sUcH fRiNgE BeLiEf SyStEmS?%$#...?¡¿"
No judgement. Not saying Mormons ain't somewhat fringe, at least in certain aspects.
But dood. Murica is The Land of Fringe. EVERYONE is somewhat fringe-y in one respect or another.
At this point it's less useful to think of them as "fringe" and more like "one of numerous TASSLES ALONG THE EDGE."
Their fringe-itude is nothing special. I'll take 5 LDS missionaries over any member of the Phelps clan any day of the week.
_Disco-Stu@reddit
Honest answer? We view Mormonism as a pseudo Christian, ~100% white, polygamous cult full of Stepford wives, home schooled kids held back both academically and socially, and toxic men who want to be surrounded by and raise personal servants.
All while being outwardly so nice to the very people they routinely out group and marginalize., they vote with the radical right-because that’s who they mostly are.
SLCamper@reddit
The Mormon organization is a $200 billion real estate investment firm disguised as a church.
vim_deezel@reddit
crazy but harmless, except the clergy, they are a dumpster fire, but most clergy are. Organize religion of any sort is 98% a trash fire
websterhamster@reddit
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has no professional clergy, unlike other Christian denominations. Every member of the Church is part of the lay clergy, and every religious position in the Church is filled by a volunteer.
Madame_Kitsune98@reddit
Individual Mormons that I know/have known are just really nice people overall. You need help cleaning out your garage? Greg will be more than happy to come give you a hand, might even bring a kid or two to help. You just had a baby, and need some help with meals and looking after your older child? Shoot, Melissa’s already organized a meal train in the neighborhood for you, and is right there telling you that you just worry about that precious baby, she’s got you covered with the housework, and one of her kids is entertaining yours.
If a disaster hits, they’re usually the first folks to be out helping in the neighborhood. They’re good friends and neighbors to have.
Now, religion wise? Thank you, but no, and I say this as a lifelong Catholic who has watched the American Catholic Church go from being more on the side of Liberation Theology to straight MAGA all the way. And I am being polite here. I don’t expect others to understand why I am still Catholic, and I’m not going to be that person who immediately starts screaming cult.
But it’s not all wholesome. They’re better organized and funded politically than other groups, including the evangelicals.
TillPsychological351@reddit
The medical branches of the US army are filled with Mormons, so I had plenty of contact with them. I even shared a room with two for a deployment to Afghanistan.
In general, they were pretty good colleagues. Easy-going l, hard-working, smart, and appeared to be genuinely happy. They didn't try to proselytize me, so that helped.
I did get the impression, though, that they prefer to socialize within their own religion. I got along with my Morman roommates quite well, and I daresay we were even friends. But it seemed like the kind of friemdship that wouldn't last beyond the deployment, and it turns out, I was correct.
websterhamster@reddit
Read through the comments here and you will see why. When society is generally hostile to your religion, you will feel safer among fellow members of your church.
jomo789@reddit
I'm from Chicago so I've barely interacted with them. But my (and most people I know) view of them is just crazy, conservative religious people out west.
I'm also gay so I've watched some hot gay porn of hooking up with Mormons who go door to door lol.
devnullopinions@reddit
I’m not a fan of institutional religion in general.
finiteloop72@reddit
Just another huge cult.
mathomas87@reddit
LDS members? Regular, every day people. All those that I’ve ever known or met were nice and morally grounded.
LDS as a religion/doctrine? Batshit.
count_montecristo@reddit
I imagine that if you grew up out west, where a majority of them live, you have interacted with them quite a bit and find them to be nice and kind like anyone else who has different beliefs than you.
Growing up in NY, they are rare so they are very other. Exposure to them is limited and what we do hear about them is mostly that they believe some crazy stuff that makes no sense no matter what religion you believe in.
MontEcola@reddit
I have read a lot about the religion. It does not appeal to me, and seems to be very authoritarian and misogynistic. I have read biography and fiction about mormons and those stories back that up. What I read about what it is like to live in a community of Mormons makes it seem like an awful place.
And I know some Mormons in my town. Most of them are great people. And then there are the oddballs. The odd ones are not just a little different. They are odd in a creepy and very strange way. It is like there is an inside culture in their communities. And some people have learned to get along on the outside and interact with non-Mormons. And those other people just don't notice that how they are acting are just bizarre.
What I notice is how they walk from the car and get into the store, or building. Or how they order at a restaurant. It is in the way the older people speak to younger people, and how the younger ones answer them. I see this layer of authority as if everyone has a rank, or there is a pecking order of some kind. Some other power is monitoring their every move and everything needs permission from someone higher up. And that is just creep to me.
websterhamster@reddit
There are no ranks and there is no pecking order; however, members of the Church tend to have a higher level of respect for older folks than society in general.
Nobody is monitoring our every move, and there is no micromanaging of our daily lives.
I think you've got some odd ideas in your head. Try to be more open and accepting of people who are different from you.
jane7seven@reddit
Where I live, this is a commonly expressed opinion about Mormons. You have to remember that a lot of Americans are probably what you would consider " "overly religious." I think we have more people who identify as strongly religious than a lot of other developed societies. And a lot of these religious people don't consider Mormons to be true Christians.
Outside of the specific doctrine, my impression of Mormons is that they are super polite, obviously don't drink, curse, smoke, etc. I knew a Mormon family. They were very nice people, very committed to their religion, and they had three children before the mom got cancer making it impossible for them to have more. They were aiming four to six children before that happened. Both parents were educated at an elite university, but they came from average/humble backgrounds. The wife stayed home to raise their kids, and their lifestyle was pretty humble. I got the impression that they were sacrificing financial attainment in order to prioritize being able to raise their kids in a certain way that emphasized their values. They seemed down to earth in a lot of ways. They were all very blonde, also something I associate with Mormons. We are not in Utah or that region of the country, but I get the impression that Mormons in that area are more wealthy and have more of a "keeping up with the Joneses" lifestyle.
notthegoatseguy@reddit
The South Park episode is better than the musical.
TheSheWhoSaidThats@reddit
The young ones are very nice, well-intentioned, helpful, naive individuals. The older ones seem to have intentionally chosen to deny reality and reason in exchange for the approval and validation of their friends and family and are pretending to be happy while they die inside. Their beliefs are objectively bizarre. I overall kinda feel sorry for them.
tarheel_204@reddit
Most of us probably don’t know enough about them to many any sound judgements. I live in rural NC and I’ve never met a Mormon person that I know of
Quieres_Banjo@reddit
Being from the east coast: Weird, insular, possibly polygamists. When I was a kid there was a book released named "Under the Banner of Heaven" and I remember my parents and friend's parents reading that book and developing pretty negative views on Mormonism.
I have an aunt who lived in the SW United States and does financial services work, she encountered a lot of mormons in her time at a major institution she worked at, had nothing but nice things to say. I've worked with Mormons in my line of work (tech sales) and have found them to be average people, no different than any other group on the surface really. The whole obsession with flavored sodas and adding shit to them in the State of Utah is a trip however, and is a direct response to coffee & tea being shunned by the LDS church.
Vendevende@reddit
Indifferent
egg_mugg23@reddit
weird af. look into what they actually do in the temples it’s literally stolen from the freemasons lol. not to mention their baptismal fonts surround by GOLDEN CALVES. smh
websterhamster@reddit
I think they're bronze, not gold.
ejpierle@reddit
Mormons are generally nice people in my experience, but they believe some WILD shit. When they're not on their door knocking mission, I have no problem with them. The ones who want to tell you ALL about it - just don't. Believe whatever you want, just leave me out of it.
buzzbeeberkeley@reddit
Inbred cult
joshuacrime@reddit
Cult.
noperopehope@reddit
Imo they’re a cult, avoid. Be nice to their missionaries though because they’re just naive brainwashed college age kids
zjaffee@reddit
Most Americans view Mormons with a sense of mystery due to a lack of exposure to them. They think they have very weird beliefs, a powerful ruling body, and tons of very successful members to the point of it being uncanny.
This said, from a personal perspective having visited SLC a few times due to having a few friends that moved there. It's an incredible place and the Mormons in many senses of the word are model citizens who while I have disagreements with, I do generally view them as ethical hardworking people.
anneofgraygardens@reddit
like other people have said, or depends on where you live because Mormons are not evenly distributed throughout the country. As a westerner, I've known plenty of Mormons, and in fact I did the discussions (met with the missionaries) when I was in high school. I was never interested in converting to Mormonism, I was just trying to learn about it because a good friend of mine was LDS. So I think I have a much better grasp of what Mormonism entails than your average non-Mormon.
honestly, I think the entire religion is completely batshit and morally bankrupt. It is based on the concept that native Americans are descended from Jews, something that is obviously not true. The book of Mormon describes a ton of shit going down in North America that there is zero evidence for. Additionally, the religion is totally racist, misogynist, and homophobic.
All that said, on a personal level, Mormons I've met are usually super friendly, honest, and pleasant people. My friend in high school was a really great person and as a convert, I could never square how such an intelligent girl could join a religion that was so sexist.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit
I keep coming across people who choose to have nice friendly chats with missionaries. I must be an asshole, because they had 5 seconds to leave on their own before I shut the door in their faces. I chose to chat with them 0% of the time. Absolutely zero patience on my part.
FireRescue3@reddit
They have unique views and doctrines, and I don’t care at all. Each religion has their own unique views and doctrines.
I don’t particularly care about any of them; but if those views/doctrines are important to you it doesn’t bother me.
InksPenandPaper@reddit
Warm, helpful, friendly, family oriented people but also very insular.
You can be friends with them but you'll never be close friends if you're not of the same faith.
JackBinimbul@reddit
Scientology with extra steps.
Shiiiiiiiingle@reddit
I’m related to some well-known Mormons from the 1800’s. Mormonism is a crock of crap. They can be nice people, but their religion teaches some trashy morality.
However, I’m an agnostic and was raised by an ex-Christian and an atheist. I am not a fan of any organized religion. I think they were all made up by humans.
WingedLady@reddit
I don't like the way they proselytize as a required part of their religion. When I was in college they would come on campus (always a pair of guys in black slacks, white short sleeved button down, and black neck tie; Book of Mormon play really got that right) and try and basically trap students in conversation. At one point they even brought high schoolers in "plain clothes" and made them look like lost students visiting campus. So when you approached them to help (because that happened a lot), they'd try and drag you into conversation.
They'd even take advantage of bottlenecks caused by construction around campus. Like they knew people would be trapped going a certain route so they'd just wait there and nab anyone who made eye contact.
I think I had one neutral location with them when they're out trying to get converts, where the pair had been separated and one asked if we'd seen the other. He half heartedly asked if we wanted to talk and ran off when we said no.
Basically Mormons are the reason I've learned not to make eye contact with strangers on the street. I learned that long before moving to a big city and dealing with homeless people.
All that said, Mormons I've known personally tend to keep their religion to themselves and be hardworking folk. I just really really don't like their institutional habit of making their religion other people's problem. The religion is problematic in a lot of ways but most religions are. It's when you step on other people's toes that I get annoyed.
scottwax@reddit
Everything I know about Mormons I learned from South Park.
neorealist234@reddit
The doctrine and theology isn’t for me…but they are literally the nicest people I’ve ever met. Had lived out west where we had many neighbors and friends that were LDS. Good values, work ethic, never criticizing, never outwardly judgey…I loved living around them.
There is a fundamentalist sect that isn’t part of the mainstream church that is super weirdo. I can’t speak much about it the church itself since we never interacted with it.
0rangeMarmalade@reddit
There may be good individual Mormons, but the Mormon church as a whole is very problematic.
nowhereman136@reddit
Theres a South Park episode that perfectly sum them up.
They are seen as overly nice to the point of being weird, but also generally harmless
Azariah98@reddit
I did not grow up with Mormons at all. As an adult I independently made good friends with several. To a person, they were the nicest people I’d ever met. Kind, caring people who would go well out of their way to help anyone with anything all while being pleasant and humble about it. Even when asked about the seemingly sillier aspects of their religion they were perfectly happy explaining them and perfectly ok with us being different.
I don’t see them day to day any more, but, since I’m a grown up and can let all people be different people they’re still great friends who I know I could count on if I needed.
Their religion believes some off-the-wall stuff, but not more crazy than any other religion. It’s just a lot newer.
mis_no_mer@reddit
We make fun of it because it’s weird and bad
rjtnrva@reddit
I've found Mormons as individuals to be decent, friendly people. Their church and state government, though, not so much.
RegionFar2195@reddit
They tend to be well spoken, educated and have money. They are a religion that is ok to shit on in American culture. But if you were to make fun of parts of the Muslim religion that parallels to Mormons, you would be called a racist and probably lose your job.
TiradeShade@reddit
Individually, most Mormons are nice people, most of them are actually nice people and not only because they want to convert you.
As a religion its a Christian adjacent cult. Its close enough on the surface to make many people comfortable and think its Christian, but the more you learn, the deeper you dive, the more significantly it diverges into its own thing until it makes most people uncomfortable.
AshTheGoddamnRobot@reddit
They're a bit different. Nice, polite, a little strange but as long as they leave me alone, I dont care.
Preferable to evangelical nutcases, tho
BeardedBandit@reddit
a large cult with less money than the church of scientology, but those in it don't know it's a cult
papercranium@reddit
Nice as individuals, kinda weird in groups. As a teetotaler, I always appreciated knowing there'd be someone else around drinking ginger ale at any given party. But anytime I've been around more than 2 at a time things just felt awkward, mostly because things inevitably veered towards conversion at that point.
I always try to be nice to the local kids on mission trips, since they stay in a house up the road from me. They're adorably clueless, but I try and help get some real-life skills into their heads while they're around.
MaineSnowangel@reddit
It’s a cult with a rough past and I find it hard to understand how they still believe the Joseph smith and forward part of things, every Mormon I’ve met is unwaveringly pleasant, the religion has tons of money.
Foreign_Sherbert7379@reddit
We all make fun of it. It’s just a weird religious thing. I personally believe all religion is made up and stupid but keeps society in tact. But Mormons definitely gets made fun of the most.
leisuresequence@reddit
patrick wilson, mary-louise parker, meryl streep + mitt romney, utah, temple garments and porn
young_trash3@reddit
A manipulative hate group that's a major net negative to the country and world.
So pretty much, I just view them like normal Christians.
BreezyMoonTree@reddit
I think they are the most externally polite people I have ever met. I have no idea how they are with one another, but they seem to have mastered the gaslighting art of transforming their judgement and biases into acts of kindness and helpfulness.
No-Coyote914@reddit
I didn't grow up in a heavily Mormon area. There were I think 3 Mormon families at my grade school. The kids were all nice, and one of them was one of my best friends. I had a very nice Mormon friend in college.
So my exposure to them is very limited, but the ones I've met have been nice.
nomuggle@reddit
I’ve seen the musical The Book of Mormon multiple times and it’s always hilarious.
VAfinancebro@reddit
Religiously speaking, Mormons are not Christians as their theology doesn’t align with Christian doctrine. They don’t believe in the Trinity. They will claim to be Christians, in the same way that Jehovah Witnesses will, but they are not.
I know many Mormons who are absolutely wonderful people. Good neighbors, good members of society. Often times not very judgy (note I am in a progressive area on the east coast not near Utah) but that could be my experience. Usually decent looking folks, too. They seem to have money. Traditional family values usually.
I don’t really think about them a lot but guess more so recently with some of the recent shows out.
Shadw21@reddit
Not quite as bad as Scientologists, less annoying that Jehovah's Witnesses, but still pretty bad and a cult.
Look up the Mountain Meadows Massacre and Utah war if you've got time.
Substantial-Walk4060@reddit
They're weird. I find Mormonism pretty interesting personally.
Substantial-Walk4060@reddit
They're usually nice too, so I have no issues with individual members of their church, but the Church itself as an institution is another story.
AnimatedHokie@reddit
I personally think Mormonism is odd, but I feel that way about any sort of organized religion. Generally, I don't care. They're not invasive or pushy or anything. You do you, but I'd never practice it or have a significant other that did
Karfedix_of_Pain@reddit
I guess I probably don't count as an "average" American since I'm an atheist - most Americans seem to be at least vaguely religious/spiritual.
But I guess Mormons seem fine? A little weirder than my local Catholics, I suppose. A little more cult-ish? Kind of like better-established/more-affluent Jehovah's Witnesses?
I know there's some very well-documented issues with the church... But out here in Norther New York I'm just not seeing them. Around here you maybe see a couple Mormons going door-to-door once in a while and that's about it. I'm sure my opinion would be different if I were living out West and seeing those issues every day.
KPhoenix83@reddit
It's viewed as a kind of "harmless cult" though probably not to its own members.
imthesqwid@reddit
What makes it a cult?
Grombrindal18@reddit
They’re generally fine as individuals, as classmates or coworkers etc. But as a group, and effectively as a corporation, they are terrible.
InsertDramaHere@reddit
I really have zero fucks to give about anyone's religion. I dislike all of them (mostly) equally.
Caranath128@reddit
Kinda cultish, a tad bit weird in their lifestyle, but a pretty fun Musical.
Least annoying when it comes to shoving their views in your face.
Ravenclaw79@reddit
They’re like any other Christians, really: A lot of them are fine, just doing their thing, but a few of them are really awful (polygamists, rabid missionaries who won’t leave people alone, etc.).
bubbletea-psycho@reddit
They are nice and more well put-together than most people. They also are very musical like that South Park episode.
Traditional_Entry183@reddit
Everyone I've met with a connection is an ex Mormon, who left the church and moved East to get away from them in their 20s. They seem to be opressive and controlling, though that's hardly unusual with religions.
stiletto929@reddit
In general I have a poor opinion of the religion. But the individual Mormons I have meet have all been very kind people.
Vidistis@reddit
They're as ridiculous as the other religions.
imthesqwid@reddit
Classic Reddit
Vexonte@reddit
Its a mixed bag, a majority of Americans just see them as weird religious people from Utah who knock at your door in a white shirt and tie.
You have religious groups that have a negative view of them for being the wrong form of Christianity With alot of jokes about the book of mormon being space balls.
You have groups that see them as a societal ill for their religious beliefs, often times boycotting Mormon authors like Sanderson and Card because their tithes go to the church.
You also have a small groups of people who like looking at their wild history as a distinct cultural group in the US. I mean wild..
hivemind_MVGC@reddit
They're nuts. Their religion is obviously fake hucksterism snake oil nonsense. Magic underwear? Gold tablets translated in hats? Come on...
That said, they seem to embody a lot of wholesome traditional values stuff. It's probable just superficial, but they sure do put on a good front.
They're nuts.
snoopfrogcsr@reddit
I don't know what you consider to be average, but for reference, I'm an atheist who abhors organized religion and believes it will be our downfall as a species before we can outgrow it. It's too useful a tool for the rich and powerful to be allowed to take its rightful place in our history.
As far as mormonism goes, they're a little odd but less immediately harmful than evangelicals. The amount of wealth and power they're accumulating in Utah, and I believe now Idaho, is a little concerning.
Seaforme@reddit
They're just as harmful, and make up a huge voting bloc in the Republican party because they're extremely pro life. The most notable difference is they're pro immigration.
The reason they don't seem as harmful as evangelicalism is because they're smaller and more insular
wammi_K@reddit
they are absolutely not pro immigration lol
Seaforme@reddit
https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2024/06/27/latest-mormon-land-plan-an-even/
I wouldn't say they're quite "no borders" level but from my understanding as an outsider, they tend to endorse pro immigration policies
wammi_K@reddit
the church is huge on global foreign investment for things like infrastructure, sanitation, (and of course) temples and churches for the developing world. it’s their brand of “hey look we built these roadways to this church for you, we’ll see you there on sunday.” it’s a big recruitment tactic and partially a reason (other than your classic missionaries) why global church membership continues to grow. these tactics can be applied to their support of pro-immigration policies, ultimately they want to sponsor more members.
it’s important to note that the LDS Leadership and the followers themselves don’t always align dogmatically. personally, most mormons i’ve met are extremely xenophobic, isolationist, and anti-immigration. they still love trump and his policies, and the mormon voting base has a long way to go before they vote for anything but their own interests.
304libco@reddit
They’re just as harmful as evangelicals. I think they just keep it hidden, but they support the exact same kind of laws and social stigmas.
AntisocialHikerDude@reddit
I don't consider myself a "fundamentalist evangelical" but I agree with them that Mormons are different from Christians than they are similar doctrinally. I don't have a problem with them as individual people really, but they're kind of a weird uniquely-American cult.
MrsBeauregardless@reddit
They’re usually the nicest people you will ever meet, but I think it’s a cult.
wugthepug@reddit
Don’t really have much experience with them. My brother’s ex girlfriend was mormon and went to Brigham Young while they were dating, but I didn’t know her all that well (and I’m fairly sure she left the church). Everything else I know is from South Park and FLDS documentaries so not painting a rosy picture of them lol.
JimBones31@reddit
There's an expression I heard and really like.
Not my monkey, not my circus.
wormbreath@reddit
I live in Mormon country. I don’t really think much about them.
notyogrannysgrandkid@reddit
Star Valley?
MarcusAurelius0@reddit
Their religion is both cult like and fucking weird.
kirils9692@reddit
I don’t like the LDS church but Mormons are consistently super nice people. Also Utah despite being a deep red state, it is unexpectedly progressive in some areas and has a pretty functional government and high quality of life, which I think is partly due to its unique Mormon culture.
Luckyangel2222@reddit
They are NOT Christians
Sp4ceh0rse@reddit
Individual Mormons are generally really nice people. The Mormon church is a corrupt and wicked organization. The Mormon religion is a cult.
Bookworm8989@reddit
I live in Arizona in the east valley (Phoenix metro area) and there is a large Mormon population here with temple every mile it seems. Every Highschool around me has a little building off site where the Mormon kids get to go for whatever it is they do for their Mormon class. It’s weird but for the most part they are nice for a cult, lol.
MasterJunket234@reddit
You do you.
ExtinctFauna@reddit
We had a surge in interest in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (which is the church name) back in 2012 when Mitt Romney ran for president against incumbent President Barack Obama. But to us outsiders, the faith seems really strict and a bit weird. Around that time, the musical The Book of Mormon came out that poked fun at it (with a red-hot poker), so there were these ads that said "And I'm a Mormon."
South Park had a crack or two at the faith, and the guys who made that show made The Book of Mormon.
LikelyNotSober@reddit
They seems nice i guess.
Particular-Cloud6659@reddit
A group of folks that are kinda financially shady?
blueponies1@reddit
That they are generally good people as individuals but are a part of damn near a cult and follow weird rules. I think some people avoid them because of how pushy they can be with their religion if they are missionaries. I agree they are annoying sometimes and their religion seems unattractive to me, but I have never met an individual Mormon who was a bad person
wammi_K@reddit
I’ve lived in Utah my entire life, never have been and not currently Mormon. The culture is dominated by the church. Their laws are Utah’s laws. It dictates who your kids are friends with, what kind of neighborhood activities you’re invited to, and how your child is treated at school. This gets much worse in the heart of Mormon country in Utah county. Further south in the state, in extremely rural communities in the dozens of people, an ex-mormon or non-mormon family might be completely ostracized.
SeeYouOn16@reddit
I live in a part of the country where there's a pretty large population of Mormons. Overall they're nice people on the surface, when you talk to them they're usually very friendly people. That being said they don't really associate with people outside of Mormonism and I've been told by a friend who did a construction deal with them that they don't play fair and are pretty dirty when it comes to doing business with people who aren't Mormons.
Judgy-Introvert@reddit
My life has consisted of no religion, Jehovah Witness (I was around 11 or 12 when my both my parents started attending), Christian and then back to no religion. My views used to be that I didn’t care what people chose to believe as long as they didn’t force it on people. Unfortunately, that is happening more and more. My views now are unfavorable of most, if not all, religions. Mormonism included.
sluttypidge@reddit
An abusive cult of crazies and poor unfortunate children
bigdreamstinydogs@reddit
It’s an evil, racist, sexist cult. It’s as bad as Scientology.
brandnewspacemachine@reddit
They have some decent practices like storing up enough food to get you by in case of a disaster and family game night and helping neighbors being nice people in society, I don't know whether that extends to in the home or is just a witness tactic. But the religion itself is bonkers and based in racism (I guess like pretty much every other institution in the United States)
sgtm7@reddit
I don't think any more of them than I do of any other religion.
Young_Rock@reddit
I’m a Bible Belt evangelical Christian. They’re nice people, but it upsets me that people seem to think they’re Christian. If you cannot affirm the Apostle’s Creed, you do not believe in the same God that I and others with orthodox theology do
Sdbrown099@reddit
Kinda weird, but you do you. As long as you aren’t trying to push it on others, all good
AUCE05@reddit
We think their beliefs are bat shit crazy, but it's their American right to be bat shit crazy.
yahgmail@reddit
I know & work with a bunch of ex Mormons who describe Mormonism as a cult.
Historically it's no more strange than Christian movements from the past 2000+ years. However, they can really ramp up the harassment of lapsed Mormons (calling/showing up at their homes after being told not to repeatedly).
I find them roaming around on bikes in predominantly Black neighborhoods in West Baltimore (where I'm from) during the summer. It's more comical than anything else at this point because most here think Mormons are goofy.
Silvercomplex68@reddit
Don’t like them soley for their views on black people printed clearly in their book but try and deny publicly
BookLuvr7@reddit
Until I moved to Utah and tried the LDS church, I thought they were oddballs who were unaware how snobbish they came across.
After I tried the LDS church, I know for sure they're a cult. They try to control members clothing, hair, diet, what shows and movies they watch, what books they read, their sex lives, and their money. Their founder twisted Christianity into something that would "force" him to have a harem of underage girls or die. If he was truly such a moral man, he would've chosen to die. He even separated the girls from their families and told them if they married him, they and their families would go to this nifty top level of heaven he just invented. All of their conferences and talks imply if members don't toe the line, they'll be separated from their families for eternity in different kingdoms of heaven.
Don't get me started on how they've taught homosexuality is "a sin next to bestiality" and masturbation "a sin next to murder." Are they very organized and great at humanitarian efforts? Sure. But they make a great show of those things and other churches do them just as well.
I've been to a lot of different Christian churches. What's good about them isn't unique, and what's unique about them isn't good.
TheLastRulerofMerv@reddit
There's lots of Mormons up here in Western Canada, and down in Mexico. I grew up in predominantly Mormon area of Alberta, and IMO they aren't any more more cultish than the Evangelicals or die hard Catholics were. The only thing that makes them stick out is that they go on Mission when they're coming of age, and they don't drink or do any drugs.
Successful_Fish4662@reddit
I’m from Montana and it always surprised me How many Mormons and FLDS there are in Berta!
TheLastRulerofMerv@reddit
They set up a temple just north of Glacier in Cardston because they wanted a back up plan just in case they were ever driven out of the US. The Canadian government encouraged them to come to the region after that because they learned irrigated agricultural skills in Utah that were deemed very needed in southern Alberta. So most of the original irrigation districts there have their beginnings with the Mormon pioneers. Long history. There's still lots of Utah plates in southern Alberta, and whenever I've been in Utah I've seen my fair share of Alberta plates.
loner-phases@reddit
It is not just "fundamentalist evangelicals" anyone who practices Nicene christianity (which is the majority of christians) agree that religion is heretical.
In my experience, the adherents themselves, though, as in their personalities, range from "not as bad as I thought" to "actually pretty great." I think they are not Christians, but not a cult either. Just a new weird religion whose extremists are into polygamy
cryptoengineer@reddit
Most people outside Utah, Nevada, etc, don't care.
MattieShoes@reddit
They're generally nice people. The church is wacko.
I think, as a group, they tend to be too concerned with appearances. Not like looks, but... kinda like the social media thing, where people will try to present their lives and marriages as amazing regardless of whether they're having issues or not -- that sort of appearances. I don't think it's even an attempt to be deceitful -- they're just better than average at lying to themselves.
I think they also do a number on women in particular -- the church leans hard patriarchal and give women some bizarre hangups.
There's a bit of a trope that Mormon girls, when they go off to college, either go crazy with the freedom and start drinking and sleeping with anything with a pulse, or they panic and run away. Or both, in sequence.
bolivar-shagnasty@reddit
Every Mormon I’ve ever met has been nothing but kind, hardworking, and self deprecatingly humble. I’ve never had one try and force their religion on me. I’ve never been made to feel ashamed for the literal sins of my father (actual things my dad did) during a sermon in front of the whole congregation like I was at a Church of Christ.
Sure, they’re weird, and the org structure is problematic, but the rank and file ones you’re likely to encounter aren’t any worse than the hardcore baptists and some Methodists you’ll meet.
Plow_King@reddit
cult, like most religions. in 100 yrs, $cientology will be as legit as mormons now. i once met a former mormon gal at a party. we were smoking cigs on a balcony at the party, admiring the L.A. momon temple in the view and she said "ya know, i grew up as a hardcore mormon. glad i'm not any more!"
that was quite an interesting and lengthy conversation.
VeronicaMarsupial@reddit
Everyone here who's saying how nice they are is clearly not an insider who knows how passive-aggressive and two-faced many of them often are. They say a lot of things that may seem nice enough to laypeople who don't understand the subtext. They'll smile and chat and try to strip you of your rights. They think you are lesser.
Source: raised Mormon, have many Mormon family and acquaintances, have heard a LOT of what they say among themselves and seen what they do that isn't for public display.
Practical-Ordinary-6@reddit
Generally I don't think people care at all. They have too many more important things to worry about than spending their time thinking about Mormons, if they don't have any direct contact with them. Mormons are fairly invisible in the East and even in the West where they're most prominent they're still a small slice of the population overall. It's in very specific places where they are much more prominent, so most people in the US don't encounter them.
(My best friend and locker partner in high school was Mormon, in a "non-Mormon" area of the country. So I had a little bit of exposure.)
Parking_Aerie_2054@reddit
It’s kind of a cult like JWs and Scientology. It definitely does not fall under the Christian umbrella
DarthChillvibes@reddit
I have a Mormon friend I've known for 10+ years and we're, for the most part, really close even though she lives halfway across the country. They know I'm not Mormon and have not pressured me into joining (which I doubt I ever will) and they've welcomed me with open arms. I love her, I love her (huge) family, and I think they're amazing people.
Having said that, I heavily dislike the Mormon church. I don't hate the church but I find a lot of their beliefs both past and present to be quite far from what Christianity believes. From the near-worship of a con-man, to the weird ass black people planet thing (they've since redacted that but still) to some of the books that are questionable sources in the Book of Mormon. It just doesn't sit right with me.
TehLoneWanderer101@reddit
Strangely enough, I haven't come across many even though LA city proper has the second largest LDS Temple in the US. But my views are the same as they are for any religion: I'm not a fan of religion but I'm not going to hate on an individual simply for being a member of a church.
I also admittedly don't know much about the tenets of the LDS church. Just the memes (magic underwear; polygamy; special planets).
T0astyMcgee@reddit
I kind of think they’re weird. I’ve spoken to them and they’re very nice but they’re odd. I think most non-Mormons would probably agree lol.
ElectionProper8172@reddit
I am not religious at all. But they seem a bit like a cult to me. But do do other religions lol. As far as how individuals are. They seem mostly nice but they really want to convert people
Illustrious-Lead-960@reddit
People joke about it more often than they actually think about it.
I wonder if we have a false reputation for hating Canada for that very same reason?
GuyWithAComputer2022@reddit
I don't really have any opinion. I don't know any.
WyomingVet@reddit
I grew up around and live around a lot of Mormons. I have issues with a religion founded by a known alcoholic conman who went off into the woods of Pennsylvania had DTs and saw God.
Tacoshortage@reddit
I'm a not-very-religious average Joe. I find the religion to be a little quirky and odd but I have found the people who practice it to be, without fail, fantastic, well adjusted, hard working great people...so they must be doing something right.
03zx3@reddit
Mormon's tend to be nice, but in a weird uncanny valley sort of way.
tommyjohnpauljones@reddit
I've had three Mormon dentists, which is odd because I've never lived in an area with a large Mormon concentration.
(As to how I knew: all went to BYU dental school, and all had big family portraits with their 6-8 kids and 20-some grandkids. They did good work though. )
SteakAndIron@reddit
Average non Mormon just thinks they are a sect of Christianity that doesn't drink alcohol
Average non Mormon who knows about Mormonism thinks it's a ridiculous cult
hvl1755@reddit
They are a dangerous cult
Nottacod@reddit
Cult
FrozenFrac@reddit
As a whole, Mormons themselves are some of the greatest people to meet with. Stereotypically, they're super friendly and will be some of the first people to lend a hand if you ask for help. That being said, the Church teaches some...questionable things and there's 100% a dark underbelly to it all if you join them and then start questioning things. They are also very much into keeping up with former members. My mom was a Mormon for several years and left that faith shortly after I was born. To this day, we still get missionaries knocking at our door asking for her or offering to do bible studies, as well as letters in the mail asking for us to attend church.
jmarkham81@reddit
I view them in the same light as I do Scientology and JWs: weird and cult-y. I’m sure most of the individual people are nice but institution and their ideas are too far out for me.
Seaforme@reddit
I find them to be a cult, same as JWs and whatever else. We did briefly learn about them in history class, I think it's our own fault that our society ostracized them so they went to the middle of nowhere and became insular and crazier.
If someone tells me they're Mormon, I absolutely treat them more standoffishly. I had a friend who was raised Mormon who actively feared going around bodies of water because yeah Satan lives in the retention pond.
typhoidmarry@reddit
I think they’re weird and I don’t open my door to them.
chap_stik@reddit
People generally find the religion to be strange, some are even very critical of the church overall for various reasons. Individual Mormons are generally regarded as very kind people, though.
I will say that I definitely gave props to the church for their response to the musical Book of Mormon which makes fun of Mormons and their beliefs. Instead of threatening legal action, they took out ads in the playbook that encouraged people to read the Book of Mormon in a somewhat humorous way. Like, “You’ve seen the play, now read the book!” Trey Parker and Matt Stone were asked about whether they were worried the church would take it badly, and as I recall they said, nah they’ll be cool about it 😂
Grandemestizo@reddit
From a religious perspective: I have serious disagreements with their doctrine and consider them heretical to the point that they are no longer Christians. They have a fundamentally different idea of who Christ is, what he did, how the trinity works, how salvation works, all the fundamentals are different. Joseph Smith was a convicted con-man and a false prophet. The Mormon church also has a history of racism, sexism, and homophobia that I find deeply troubling.
On a personal level: I have no problem with Mormons. They’re generally polite and peaceful people and they make good neighbors. I don’t have to like someone’s religion to like them as a person.
lacaras21@reddit
Heretics
NorthernForestCrow@reddit
I think the average American view is that they are a weird cult that basically owns Utah. The average Joe may be confused whether they are still largely polygamous or not.
In the fashion of intra-faith hostility the world over for probably the entirety of human existence, the average American Christian seems to think that they aren't True Christians Like Us. Also, in the same fashion, they are seen as Weird because the weird beliefs they have are different from the weird beliefs of the more familiar Christian variants.
In sum, I think the average Joe who has met one probably thinks they are nice, successful people, but they butter their bread on the wrong side and that's just weird and deserves some mild disapproval and general suspicion.
brenster23@reddit
World would have better off if they were ran out of the country. Smith was pedo teetotaler that wanted to screw others wives.
Now they are a cult, presenting perfect families while systematically hiding church abuse and corruption.
Xavierwold@reddit
9/11/1865 Murderers
CallmeGhost666@reddit
While I disagree with them, if I was ever approached to “talk” the second I kinda gave them the indication that they weren’t going to get anywhere they dropped it and would just talk to me about something else normal. Had a group of guys that would be around a grocery store that loved my old car and they’d come up and bs with me about it. South Park kinda nailed it, people I’ve dealt with in that religion have been really nice and not super pushy lol
mini_print@reddit
Most people view it as weird but no one really cares. I knew some mormon people in middle school and they were pretty chill and normal.
purplehorseneigh@reddit
My personal take is that from what I’ve seen from accounts of ex-mormons, mormonism sounds like a cult
cdb03b@reddit
They are not Christians because of their added texts and altered doctrines, but are something adjacent to it. For the most part they are just a little odd but mostly good people, but the more fundamentalist among them can be very bad with a lot of abuse. Particularly toward women.
ALoungerAtTheClubs@reddit
Most non-Mormons find their beliefs spurious, but don't harbor ill will toward the individual members. Still, Mornonism is more accepted than, say, Jehovah's Witnesses or Scientology.
Nuttonbutton@reddit
It's a cult.
Redbubble89@reddit
We have a large Mormon temple in MD and I knew a few families growing up.
The stereotype of them having a lot of kids, abstaining from alcohol and caffeine, and marrying someone they met for 3 months ago at age 20 is true. The multiple wives and being kind of inbred was a small minority offshoot. They don't do that anymore.
The ones in my area are the nicest people you'll ever meet but like any normal interaction, don't make it about politics or religion. If I had the choice of living next to right wing Fundamentalist Christians, Jehovah's Witnesses, Scientologists, or Mormons, I would pick Mormons. It is a unique religion but they at least interact like normal people and don't shove it down your throat.
Successful_Fish4662@reddit
I grew up in Montana. With lots of Mormon and lots of FLDS. Mormons are usually very nice, successful, charitable folks..but Mormonism as a whole is disliked and considered a bullshit religion (which it is).
slayer1am@reddit
They were started by a guy who married himself to multiple very young girls, enough that he certainly qualifies as a pedophile.
On top of that, he would send missionaries to distant places and then marry their wives to himself without the knowledge of their husbands.
There are SO MANY problems with mormonism, and most of them were compiled in a document called the CES letter. This was presented to a group of Mormon apologists to have them answer the questions and clear up the problems, but they could not.
for_dishonor@reddit
I have a lot of issues with the Mormon church as a whole but ime their members tend to be helpful and earnest. I'm not sure there is another religious group I would say that about.
DogOrDonut@reddit
In my social circle Mormonism is viewed as a cult and Mormons as brainwashed. I also live relatively close to the birthplace of Mormonism, from which Mormons were banished.
Playful-Molasses-529@reddit
We don’t care live and let them live
calicoskiies@reddit
I’ve never met one, but they seem kind of culty. But I feel that way about all religions.
RoyalInsurance594@reddit
Cult
IsisArtemii@reddit
Cult
Somewhat_Sanguine@reddit
I dont like the church itself. It’s rooted in a lot of pedophilia and racism and hate and sweeping things under the rug, tons of bullshit, things that need to be investigated… so overall my view of Mormonism is met with a lot of disdain. That being said I have met a few Mormon people who are very nice. I don’t hate them, but boy do I wish they would leave their cult.
Cheap_Coffee@reddit
I'm not religious but I see Mormons as I do other religious folk: mostly nice folks with some very odd beliefs.
virtual_human@reddit
Magic underwear and sister wives?
Existing_Charity_818@reddit
The people are generally nice. The beliefs are a little weird on the surface, and vary from more weird to disturbing when you look into them. Different enough that I’d also think of Mormonism as a separate religion. There’s been some behavior revealed in the last few years that they use almost cult-like behaviors to keep people from leaving, but most of that is social media hearsay, so the trustworthy-ness is hard to say
Rick-burp-Sanchez@reddit
Exmo here, most people think they're nice. Please research their religion before you join, they were started by a pedophile and their beliefs are extremely racist and fucked up. They con poor people into giving away their money and are currently being investigated for hiding child sexual abuse.
https://cesletter.org
TsundereLoliDragon@reddit
I haven't met many (as far as I know) but the ones I've known have all been really nice. I find the religion itself weird as hell. Although you can probably say the same about all of them to some extent.