YF2Y Sea Dart, US Navy’s planned escort for the P6M, 1950’s
Posted by PlayerintheVerse@reddit | WeirdWings | View on Reddit | 32 comments
Source: https://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/4562017016
RandomQrimQuestnoob1@reddit
How bad is to land a regular with a regular flying boat/seaplane?
NSYK@reddit
With China dumping so much into anti carrier weaponry, it seems short sighted to not have more sea based aircraft
andrei_androfski@reddit
Fyaal@reddit
So you’re going to need a ship for refueling, a ship for re arming, a ship for the pilots to rest, a ship for maintenance which will need a large deck and a crane for recovering the planes from the water, preferably several of them to allow for multiple maintenance efforts at once, and all the other necessary equipment and people for running all of these ships.
Or, and hear me out here, you can just combine that in one ship, and put a runway on the top.
Busy_Outlandishness5@reddit
During peacetime, all those functions would be handled by tenders or shore stations. If war with the Reds ever broke out, the planes could hide out anywhere on the3/4s of the earth that's covered in water, making them impossible to target. (Theoretically.) Submarines would handle short-term re-arming and refueling -- and since any war like this would be very short, this arrangement would be more than sufficient
ithappenedone234@reddit
Who logically wants a pilot in the aircraft? They add unnecessary weight and bulk, and cut the range in half. Also, there is no inherent need for the plane to land.
NSYK@reddit
Why would you need all those ship? I mean in theory a replenishment ship could handle fueling and potentially rearming depending on sea conditions.
Also, I’m not saying there’s a need for a sea faring stealth aircraft, but rather a cargo plane that can handle refueling and resupplies to islands in the South Pacific.
Maybe helicopters would fill this role
captainjack3@reddit
There’s a couple of cargo seaplanes currently in development, actually.
PoemAgreeable@reddit
The VTOL F-35 that the Marines have could fill that roll.
Spreadsheets_LynLake@reddit
How they get re-armed & refueled? Nazis tried merchant ships early in WW2 to re-supply subs & warships, & the Brits quickly put an end to that.
ithappenedone234@reddit
Ukraine has recently deployed long range aircraft (~3,000 km range) for deep strike missions and they never need to refuel, rearm or land. It’s the future.
NSYK@reddit
You’re aware the navy already has a need to refuel surface ships, right?
ithappenedone234@reddit
We’re increasingly going with drones. Orca XLUUV’s will be deploying Hammerhead smart mines to autonomously close sea lanes. The Orcas are already in service. Fielding of the Hammerhead may already have begun.
There is increasingly little reason to use legacy systems when drones and ballistics can provide the same combat effects for a fraction of the money, faster response times and low/no risk to friendly forces.
Even for the carriers, drones are deployed to mimic the radar and other RF signatures of a CSG, to give (for example) the Chinese more places to look than they can at anyone time, to reduce the likelihood of attack, but yes, recent DOD reports have stated that the Chinese military has passed us in numbers of missiles and launchers, with the Chinese claiming the DF-21 missile can hit a carrier.
francis2559@reddit
Ehh, you’re at the mercy of the waves doing that.
ctesibius@reddit
They investigated that. They found they could clean them pretty well by spraying fresh water through the running engine.
francis2559@reddit
What about landing speed, though?
petrx@reddit
The "runway" in the sea is long enough
francis2559@reddit
I'd be more worried about hitting waves at high speed.
SilkyZ@reddit
The only supersonic seaplane.
Also a little pissed this is why we didn't get the P6M
Virtual_Ad1236@reddit
From what little i read when it occasionally popped up on the internet is that supposedly the water landings were so rough and violent that they posed a health threat to the pilot
Tchocky@reddit
They also had Westinghouse engines.
Which were great paperweights.
WarthogOsl@reddit
They also posed a health threat to the pilot.
404-skill_not_found@reddit
Yah, I’ve read that too.
cloudubious@reddit
They addressed the worst of the ground handling, the biggest issues were the underpowered engines.
stumpy1949@reddit
My dad worked at Convair since '36 and actually did some fabrication work for the Sea Dart. I was about six at the time when he came home from work after witnessing the test flight and told my mom of the tragic crash on the bay. And so the program was eventually cancelled as impractical by the Navy.
Crash San Diego Bay - 11/04/54
rgraves22@reddit
Plane is now hanging in front of the San Diego Air and Space Museum in Balboa Park next to an A-12
Grew up going to that museum all the time with my Dad
insanelygreat@reddit
Here's video of it taking off and landing in Mission Bay, San Diego during development.
OcotilloWells@reddit
There's a building (if it hasn't been demo'd for rental car parking) across harbor drive from Lindbergh Field with a boat ramp that was built for this project. It's on Liberator Way I believe.
Archididelphis@reddit
I was just recently trying to do an autoshape design for a completely insane advanced Cold War plane, and I specifically thought of the Sea Dart. The irony is that there's nothing that extreme about the shape of the plane besides a longer than usual nose. It's just an unusually "pure" uncropped delta, which if you have to draw the plane creates some problems just getting missiles and such on the damn thing.
Hyperious3@reddit
I'd love to see this thing try and land in any swells beyond placid water
echo11a@reddit
The F2Y wasn't planned to be the escort of P6M, just happened to be in development at around the same time. F2Y was developed due to concern that supersonic aircraft may not be able to operate from aircraft carriers. It was eventually cancelled as problems with carrier-based supersonic aircraft were being solved, as well as in part due to the crash of one YF2Y in 1954.
GrapeSwimming69@reddit
I sea what where doing now....