Climate Change Is So Bad, Even the Arctic Is On Fire
Posted by Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 142 comments
From Siberia to Brazil, wildfires are moving underground and burning up massive carbon deposits. The resulting emissions threaten to worsen global warming. What sets these fires apart is their tendency to move below ground into carbon-rich soil layers. While wildfires generally flame upwards quickly consuming forest and grassland the increasingly intense blazes of recent years move downward, where they smolder flamelessly below the surface, consuming layers of organic material. These little-studied fires are becoming more common as severe wildfires have doubled in frequency over the past two decades. In the Arctic, 2024 is shaping up to be the worst fire year since 2020, when blazes burning across Siberia for several months consumed 8.6 million acres of tundra and sent emissions surging to a record.
Nouseriously@reddit
The permafrost in Siberia is up to 5,000 ft thick. That is an absolute shitton of carbon.
Suspicious_Corgi4069@reddit
And methane!
mrpickles@reddit
Holy shit
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
Cooked
Psychological-Sport1@reddit
Why are we not developing the programmable sun shades like mit did
Tough_Salads@reddit
I had a plan to head up to Alaska to live my last years on the family homestead... not so sure these days
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
Yeah I was planning on have a bug out joke there but the permafrost would make it hard to farm
Tough_Salads@reddit
Hell yeah it would. I keep wondering though if maybe we couldn't find a way but it's looking pretty bleak.
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
There was an area that I was told could be a potential better to be at 4C would be around the Great Lakes region
Tough_Salads@reddit
MMhhmm. but I don't have a family homestead on the great lakes lol. I can't afford a mobile home much less land to put it on. The homestead was the plan! oh well. Maybe I can become a tug boat captain
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
I’m personally not trying to find a home directly near the lakes because it’s too expense but at 4C I was told there would be a good microclimate around the lakes so I wouldn’t necessarily have to be physically close to the lakes so some hike a bit inland wouldn’t be too bad of an option
Tough_Salads@reddit
And at 4c I reckon there won't be such a thing as land titles. Just grab yerself a place and defend it
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
Lol yeah for sure, mad max ish
Fox_Kurama@reddit
Maybe more like the sea people. You will want to grab a sailing vessel more than some land.
Tough_Salads@reddit
They made those movies not as entertainment but as a 'how to guide' lol
faster-than-expected@reddit
When permafrost melts it really messes with the landscape. Roads, homes, waterlines, etc are destroyed. It can even create a “gateway to hell”.
https://newatlas.com/environment/siberia-doorway-to-hell-batagaika-crater/
Tough_Salads@reddit
Yeah. Capitalism kills a lot of things including dreams
AntiauthoritarianSin@reddit
"get back to work!"
Fox_Kurama@reddit
Username ANTI-fits.
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
🫡
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
The end is most certainly near for us
Purua-@reddit
“Destiny still arrives all the same”
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
Thanos is arriving soon
Fox_Kurama@reddit
The real Thanos was the global warming with us all along. And he'll snap many more times than just once.
Similar_Resort8300@reddit
10-20 yrs
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
It’ll be a fun decade or two
Similar_Resort8300@reddit
ya no. feel sorry for our young folk.
SpongederpSquarefap@reddit
I genuinely feel awful whenever I see a kid now
I can't get this out of my head
slayingadah@reddit
Our kid is a teen and we are doing the best we can to ensure their safety, but we were collapse unaware when we had our kid. I work in early childhood and love the tiny humans, but it is so incredibly sad to receive new cohorts of infants. My boss is pregnant and I'm so excited for her, but I am so sad for the child.
I wouldn't have had a child had I known then what I know now. But I understand why others are still choosing to have babies. They're still willing to keep up the willing suspension of disbelief because they crave having a child. The love. The hardship. The all-encompassing nature of being a parent. I know I did. And I would have grieved for the rest of my life if I had known then what I know now and had chosen to not have children.
Life is hard. It's about to get way. Fuckin. Harder. And also, people will continue to have children. Less than before, as we've seen already, and as more calamities happen, it will be a lot less. But we aren't totally there yet. Don't worry, we will be.
Until that time tho, babies still need loving on in my profession, because they still exist AND they don't have even one tiny clue about what is fixin to happen.
Paalupetteri@reddit
I'm so disgusted at the human race that I no longer have any compassion for humans, not even kids. But I truly feel awful each time I see a wild animal. To think that we are driving them all into extinction along with us. They never did anything to deserve it. Sometimes I start crying when I her birds singing. I wish I shared a common language with them, so I could tell them about the coming collapse and I could cry together with them.
Lucky_Turnip_1905@reddit
Same. It's the DNA for me. Kids might seem innocent in the way that a polar bear cub might. We're 100% monsters walking around on this planet.
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
We’re all capable of being monsters, some of us just don’t try to be, unless pushed
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
Well, I still have some compassion but I hear you, if only humanity realized it’s folly before it was too late, but we’re at the too late stage now
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
Yeah, which is why a refuse to bring kids into this worsening world
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
I prob won’t make it to 50
bearbarebere@reddit
10-20 years for what end though? All of human extinction? Absolutely not.
Mass starvation or layoffs? Maybe.
Old-Adhesiveness-156@reddit
If people are massively starving you can bet there'll be conflict and societal collapse. We're looking at the start of a century of dark times.
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
Yep, just wait till it gets to 2C when those global crop failures pick up, it’ll be fun….
Old-Adhesiveness-156@reddit
Good thing we're spinning up coal plants to power cryptomines and AI. These will surely save us.
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
I live near “data center alley” those backup diesel generators are polluting away thanks to ChatGPT
Old-Adhesiveness-156@reddit
Has ChatGPT finally brought us the solution yet? I'm still eagerly waiting.
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
Yeah, & idk if ChatGPT could be capable of admitting it’s part of the problem tbh
Old-Adhesiveness-156@reddit
Totally couldn't. AI won't save us. The only thing that will save is is a Manhattan Project level effort on stopping all CO2 output and on sequestering as much CO2 as possible, immediately and worldwide.
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
If only…but all politicians are bought and paid for by big oil so we can only dream tbh
gmuslera@reddit
What matters is not dying, but the process until that. People you care about dying off, starving, disease, social chaos, anarchy, all the bad things that you see in isolated places today, in your front porch, to you and around you. And new things, because we may be alive to see conditions that maybe never happened in human history.
After you die, nothing will matter anymore. But the process may be longer than what you can support.
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
Least in death, I won’t feel anything just void
Medical-Ice-2330@reddit
I'd say first major civilization collapse event. Sapiens themself will chimp along for a long long time.
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
I’m hoping there’s at least a few of us left but idk at this rate
supersunnyout@reddit
Have you heard the news about exponential functions though?
Odd_Awareness1444@reddit
I used to roll my eyes at the "end is near" folks. Not anymore.
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
Thanos said it best
mastermind_loco@reddit
I really don't know what to expect at this point, but the writing is undoubtedly on the wall for anyone paying attention.
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
Either way we’re cooked nonetheless
TuneGlum7903@reddit
This is the end result of listening to "bad science".
It wasn't until the 00's that we did an actual comprehensive survey of how much permafrost actually exists. It found 2X more than had been estimated. Which would be of minor interest if that estimate hadn't been part of our Climate Models since the 70's.
In 2008, the first REAL study of Arctic permafrost and its potential to influence the Climate System, DOUBLED the estimate for the amount of organic carbon held in permafrost soils.
Vulnerability of Permafrost Carbon to Climate Change: Implications for the Global Carbon Cycle.
How do you think the Moderates dealt with this finding?
As you might expect, they decided that the permafrost would melt SLOWLY and they THEORIZED that the organic carbon in the permafrost would be released SLOWLY via biological processes.
They MINIMIZED the risks in their models because that's the only way to make them fit their theories.
Our models are WRONG.
Arctic permafrost is now a net source of major greenhouse gases — New Scientist 12 April 2024.
An Arctic-wide survey has found that the permafrost region is emitting more carbon into the atmosphere than it absorbs, causing the planet to heat even further.
THERE IS ENOUGH ORGANIC CARBON IN THE PERMAFROST TO INCREASE THE ATMOSPHERIC CO2 LEVEL TO ABOUT 1300PPM.
Half of this frozen organic matter is found in the first 3 meters of the permafrost.
It’s melting. WAY faster than the models indicated it would.
"Observed maximum thaw depths at our sites are already exceeding those projected to occur by 2090 under representative concentration pathway version 4.5."
Climate Change Drives Widespread and Rapid Thermokarst Development in Very Cold Permafrost in the Canadian High Arctic (2019)
In 2020 the Arctic Institute warned that a 3 degree Celsius increase in global temperatures could melt 30 to 85 percent of the top permafrost layers that exist across the Arctic region.
The Arctic has warmed nearly four times faster than the globe since 1979
Communications Earth & Environment volume 3, Article number: 168 (Aug 2022)
700,000 years of Organic Carbon have ACCUMULATED in the Permafrost Zone.
In fact, the “Boreal Zone” has functioned as a carbon sink for so long that if you burned all of the oil available in all the reserves around the world, you would still release less carbon than the boreal forest and permafrost is currently holding.
Until recently NO ONE was checking to see if reality was conforming to the Climate Models.
The attitude has been something like this statement from climate researcher Dr. Dessler in an NYT interview in Dec. 2023 about the “unprecedented” warming in 2023.
“On its own, one exceptional year would not be enough to suggest something was faulty with the computer models. Your default position has to be, ‘The models are right.’”
It’s pretty clear. It’s going to be a LOT HOTTER a LOT FASTER than the Moderates thought.
They were WRONG about EVERYTHING.
breinbanaan@reddit
560ppm indicated in the past 8 degrees temperature higher than now. I don't want to know what 1300ppm does
dumnezero@reddit
I'd want to know, but from orbit.
Fox_Kurama@reddit
Preferably on an FTL colony ship.
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
Same
DirewaysParnuStCroix@reddit
2000ppm would result in Permian end conditions. There's an experimental climate model called ExoPlaSim that works with the Köppen scale. At 1980ppm, the average global temperature could be 29.6°c. Considering this is an informal model and is well known for not accounting for hypothetical thermal circulation, it's likely that it's underestimating the consequences of such a scenario.
The ExoPlaSim model isn't as high resolution as the CESM model, but CESM outputs tend to produce similar trajectories for paleoclimate runs. Geographical differences will limit the relevance of paleoclimatology when comparing it to potential future climate scenarios though.
Here's the ExoPlaSim output for 1980ppm;
Dependent_Status9789@reddit
1300 PPM made my jaw drop. We're in for something alright.
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
A nice real cooking is what we’re in for
Old-Adhesiveness-156@reddit
That's extinction, it seems.
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
The alarmists were right
Grand-Page-1180@reddit
I'm not going to envy whoever's the next president. Good luck explaining why or how things are only getting worse.
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
Yeah they’ll have their hands full
DoubleTFan@reddit
Maybe that's why Trump isn't really trying that hard this time.
Corius_Erelius@reddit
Trump is trying, he's just too old and in decline at this point. People are even leaving his rallies early now because of his nonsensical rants.
DaBails@reddit
Trump never was about making things better, especially when it comes to the climate crisis
Corius_Erelius@reddit
I'm not saying he's better, I'm saying he's trying to win the election. Fortunately he's become old and senile.
CarbonRod12@reddit
What makes you think they're going to even do that? There is no accountability. There is no call for hard decisions.
mecca37@reddit
They're going to ignore it...America doesn't care about anything other than profit and fixing climate changes isn't going to make profit.
DreamHollow4219@reddit
Oh but they'll have people to blame.
Those people will suffer, nothing will improve, and then the people who participated will feel enraged because nothing happened.
PsudoGravity@reddit
On the plus side for them, lot of new jobs on the horizon...
Purua-@reddit
Embrace oblivion
Yaro482@reddit
They can block the sun will see how it will work?
dumnezero@reddit
That's not Oblivion, that's Dawnguard (Skyrim).
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
Idk if they’ll actually try it
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
Already do tbh
dumnezero@reddit
From a fuel perspective, peat is the worst type of coal. So these fires are wild coal fires with the most polluting fuel.
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
The arctic is warming at a faster pace than just about anywhere else on earth. Not only will wildfires be more common, but methane releasing into the atmosphere has increased dramatically year-over-year. And what are the power at be doing about it? Nothing, absolutely nothing, will we ever do something about it? Probably not either because apparently trying to ensure all love can survive in the 50 years just isn’t a big deal. 4C is locked in but wanna know what else is locked in, those shareholder values because that’s more important than trying to prevent collapse.
Purua-@reddit
Shareholders come first!
ZenApe@reddit
Have some compassion.
Those poor shareholders are going to lose some very valuable vacation homes soon.
The horror.
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
F those shareholders
Hugin___Munin@reddit
Do you have a pension fund or 401k fund ? , so many people's retirement funds are tied to the share market now , that when the reality hit that capitalism has to stop there will be billions of people suddenly with no money to support themselves, who will then want/need a state pension but states will no longer have the tax funds to pay .
Share holders aren't just billionaires and millionaires , it your Mum and Dad and grandparents, and this is part of the reason governments are scared to do anything realistic about climate change, the economic consequences means certain defeat at election time .
The whole of earth systems will collapse before governments and the electorate faces the truth.
loco500@reddit
But think of the new Resort Hotels from Four Seaons, Marriott, Hyatt that will be constructed in the new lakes within Antarctica...New hospitality opportunities await. /s
ZenApe@reddit
And you can take a mega cruise ship down to those resorts!
They'll leave from the small chain of islands where Florida used to be.
Purua-@reddit
😱
Lawboithegreat@reddit
“Save the women and children!”
“Fuck the women and children, feed them to the funny up-line!”
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
It’s actually insane how backwards our society is
19inchrails@reddit
Our monkey brains haven't evolved quickly enough to keep pace with technology
leisurechef@reddit
Pretty sure if one greedy capitalist monkey made all the other monkeys work for him & took all the bananas for himself the other monkeys would beat him up & everyone would eat bananas again.
slayingadah@reddit
Cuz we are tricky monkeys. We've convinced ourselves we are something else, and once others figured out how to convince us of exactly what they wanted us to think, it was game over.
whereisskywalker@reddit
God complex
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
And the ecological overshoot that we’ve done
Purua-@reddit
Lls
haystackneedle1@reddit
Not enough people stop to think of the poor shareholders before they cry about stopping “carbon emissions,” or “global warming.” /s
TheRealKison@reddit
We won’t exist to confirm, but definitely on pace for 8C by the magical 2100.
Similar_Resort8300@reddit
i agree but it's too late even if the powers wanted to do something.
jameswlf@reddit
The problem is they never wanted to. The system is totally corrupt.
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
Those damn shareholders!
jameswlf@reddit
Capitalism has destroyed this world. never forget that.
Interwebzking@reddit
My girlfriend recently broke up with me and I barely see my dog anymore. I thought we’d get married and I’d at least have a companion to ride this shit storm with. Now I’m alone and I’m terrified. What’s the point?
AmountUpstairs1350@reddit
Shoot that hoe and get your dog back
collapse-ModTeam@reddit
Hi, AmountUpstairs1350. Thanks for contributing. However, your comment was removed from /r/collapse for:
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proweather13@reddit
Lol what
Lockheed-Martian@reddit
Or just dognap them.
Interwebzking@reddit
Hey that’s not very nice.
AmountUpstairs1350@reddit
Or not then ....
Interwebzking@reddit
Haha it’s all good. Just been a rough year and despite the effort the relationship didn’t work anymore. It sucks but sometimes you drift apart unfortunately.
StatesFollowMind@reddit
Embrace monkmode brother. Free your mindstream from Samsara while you still have the chance (you will not have the chance again in eons upon eons...)
Interwebzking@reddit
Waiting for the great ascension brother.
After_Shelter1100@reddit
Don’t like the CEO of Chevron outlive you
Interwebzking@reddit
I have my mission, thank you 🫡
After_Shelter1100@reddit
We’ll outlive the oil execs together 🫡
Interwebzking@reddit
Yes comrade!
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
We’ll find the bunkers
After_Shelter1100@reddit
…and pour ~~gasoline~~ sparky juice into the vents
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
🤔hmmm
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
I feel it, I haven’t dated in years, but I’d love to be back with a lady again at least during the coming storm. It sucks but if I die alone then so be it….
Interwebzking@reddit
C’est la vie I guess.
Unhappy-Breakfast-21@reddit
Smoke em if you got em
After_Shelter1100@reddit
Literally and figuratively. Cannabis grows effectively in hot weather.
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
👀
After_Shelter1100@reddit
They're actually not too hard to grow. I grew some myself once they became legal in my country. Fucked up my harvest by not cutting down the male plant earlier and mainly got seeds, but I made a lot of hemp oil and got a decent bag of buds, at least.
Unhappy-Breakfast-21@reddit
It’s not hard to grow, the art of it is in growing it really well with great yield’s.
After_Shelter1100@reddit
Yeah, but that goes with any plant, really.
Unhappy-Breakfast-21@reddit
Yeah, from what I’ve done with it, and with vegetables in general, it’s a lot harder to get great, potency and yields in weed than in tomatoes or beans. The best growers I know keep yearly journals and have been doing it for decades. One guy gets 16-20oz a plant. GL doing that on your first go around.
Don’t take it as a dissuasion to grow it. It’s called weed for a reason, cause it literally grows like weeds in some places. But, know to get the top quality stuff, it takes time and knowledge.
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
💨💨
jedrider@reddit
This sounds like what comes before the punchline of a joke:
Climate change is so bad...(Fill in something)
Your underwear is on fire as you walk across the arctic permafrost.
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
It does, if only the permafrost wasn’t actually melting then I’d probably laugh
After_Shelter1100@reddit
Why did we ban sewerslide methods again?
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
💀
After_Shelter1100@reddit
Not that I’d do that. I’ll be damned if I let the big oil execs outlive me.
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
I wonder if their private security will take them out
After_Shelter1100@reddit
New career path: bunker security guard 🫡
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
Haha yes indeed
winston_obrien@reddit
This is fine
webbhare1@reddit
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
Same
Fins_FinsT@reddit
From: "Set the World on Fire" - one hella popular song by E-Type, 1994.
A popular song...
Ok_Mechanic_6561@reddit (OP)
Ahh
StatementBot@reddit
The following submission statement was provided by /u/Ok_Mechanic_6561:
The arctic is warming at a faster pace than just about anywhere else on earth. Not only will wildfires be more common, but methane releasing into the atmosphere has increased dramatically year-over-year. And what are the powers that be doing about it? Nothing, absolutely nothing, will we ever do something about it? Probably not either because apparently trying to ensure all life can survive in the next 50 years just isn’t a big deal. 4C is locked in, but wanna know what else is locked in? those shareholder values because that’s more important than trying to prevent collapse!
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1fq3iou/climate_change_is_so_bad_even_the_arctic_is_on/lp29mar/