Intel, AWS Expand Strategic Collaboration - Intel to Produce Custom AI Fabric Chip on Intel 18A and Custom Xeon 6 Chip on Intel 3 for AWS
Posted by catch878@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 205 comments
Aristotelaras@reddit
I hope that 18A delivers to Intel's promises.
ZigZagZor@reddit
Last news was that Intel 18A is not good enough for external customers like Broadcom. 18A failed Broadcomm's test
Strazdas1@reddit
Maybe Broadcom just wasnt a good enough client.
LAwLzaWU1A@reddit
The news was that the manufacturing process (A18) was not yet mature enough to move to high-volume production. That's to be expected because Intel themselves had it scheduled for Q4 2024 (so 1-3 months from now).
Broadcom also publicly said that they were:
ButtPlugForPM@reddit
i think Intel need's to be punished for being run so poorly,but also as a consumer we need it to work,or tsmc and amd will be able to set the price
we have seen what happened with nvidia we dont want that in the cpu space
theineffablebob@reddit
The market has already punished Intel pretty severely
Aristotelaras@reddit
I agree, a monpoly is never a good thing for the consumer.
HTwoN@reddit
This is actually so huge for IFS. A huge vote of approval from Amazon.
Geddagod@reddit
I mean them using 18A is old news, afaik the "custom Intel 3 Xeon chip" is new though. Maybe a customized version of Granite Rapids?
simplyh@reddit
Definitely a custom Granite Rapids. I don't think that's surprising, iirc they have always made custom Xeons for the clouds.
LeotardoDeCrapio@reddit
I don't think intel has done that many custom SKUs for any single vendor if ever.
theineffablebob@reddit
Intel used to make custom chips for eBay data centers
jaaval@reddit
They have. That’s fairly typical for both intel and AMD. The customizations are not big though. They make for example SKUs with exactly the number of pcie channels the customer needs.
monocasa@reddit
I mean, the hyperscalers pretty much all have custom SKUs as it is.
Same die as generally available, just options like hardware integration with their HSMs fused on/off or hidden behind a MSR knock and some some pins that publicly are no connect.
LeotardoDeCrapio@reddit
Like?
madn3ss795@reddit
Just from a handful of AWS instances using Intel CPUs I have access to:
Geddagod@reddit
Didn't know that, don't follow the server/AI space that much tbh.
HTwoN@reddit
There wasn't an official announcement. This means Amazon is pretty happy with 18A.
Legal-Insurance-8291@reddit
Or it means the US government persuaded them.. something we know was happening.
AnimalShithouse@reddit
Do you work for AWS or the government? Or are you just a savant?
Legal-Insurance-8291@reddit
It was publicly reported including on this sub..
AnimalShithouse@reddit
So you think the story publicly reported late last week about the government trying to get Apple and co. to work w/ INTC led to AWS 3 days later signing this deal?
Legal-Insurance-8291@reddit
They already had a deal, this is just an expansion of it.
HTwoN@reddit
Oh, you are back to spin this into something negative? The hate boner is strong.
Asleep_Holiday_1640@reddit
Customized Sierra.
chx_@reddit
A cautious vote from Amazon. It's not Graviton. We shall see.
HTwoN@reddit
You have to walk before you can run.
chx_@reddit
Of course. We shall see.
There are two things everyone knows: 1) Intel hasn't been able to deliver anything on time since 2014 2) Gelsinger said he bet the company on 18A. Is it going to work, this time? Stay tuned!
HTwoN@reddit
There is another node mentioned other than 18A here.
chx_@reddit
Yeah but a custom chip for a hyperscaler is nothing new.
PainterRude1394@reddit
Sooo. Turns out all of Intel's nodes aren't absolute trash like people have been pushing nonstop for months here?
tacticalangus@reddit
It is a group of 4 or 5 posters here that spend enormous amounts of time and effort trying to spin every piece of Intel news into the most worst case scenario without a shred of nuance. Likely financially motivated behavior or some kind of strange ideological/dogmatic phenomenon.
NoobFace@reddit
Mean people online didn't hold up 10nm. Mean people online didn't force Intel to buy the channel and set AMD back a decade. Mean people online didn't market Optane like it was system memory.
Intel made their bed, not the people calling them out.
Muahaas@reddit
Once you tag them you can see them everywhere across these posts. The posters do not seem too bad, but if you work in the industry you know they also spout a fair bit of nonsense.
LeotardoDeCrapio@reddit
There are a few posters here that either have no life or they are paid to post here. Some of them go on nonstop specific vendors.
No well adjusted individual would put the time and effort to post on reddit and that scale just for shits and giggles.
JDragon@reddit
There’s also the usual Intel cheerleading squad on every Intel-related post. Probably bagholders trying to manifest a recovery. It’s kinda funny watching either side be upvoted or downvoted into oblivion depending on the thread.
PainterRude1394@reddit
Agreed 100%. Exist50 is a well known one
bizude@reddit
Please refrain from comments like this. /r/hardware does not condone witch hunts of individuals.
Snobby_Grifter@reddit
I'm almost certain he's an AMD employee. The semi accurate intel info (likely gotten from chatty oem) and blind faith in AMD seems like a perfect match.
III-V@reddit
He's been here forever. Feels like a decade at this point.
I like the guy. He's normally a lot more tame, but there's blood in the water now. Once Intel gets back in a healthier place, he'll be back to normal.
His pessimism with Intel counters my rose-tinted glasses and keeps me in check. I'm an eternal optimist.
BandeFromMars@reddit
I think it's more likely TSMC, he also regularly shit talks anything Samsung foundry like nodes and Exynos. It's always praise for anything Qualcomm or AMD and the main thing they have in common is use of TSMC.
MrMeeseeks202@reddit
Don’t be afraid to @ them u/Exist50
MumrikDK@reddit
That's... a very focused posting pattern.
Qesa@reddit
If you say Exist50 three times into the mirror they appear to lecture you about Intel's imminent bankruptcy
MrMeeseeks202@reddit
I said it once and got blocked Sadge
Legal-Insurance-8291@reddit
Well known for actually being right 90% of the time.
HTwoN@reddit
Use your main. Don't log on an alt.
Geddagod@reddit
Bruh...
ExtendedDeadline@reddit
Fo real, at best he's just stroking his own ego. Doubt he's got the react to pull off what HTwoN mentioned.
Legal-Insurance-8291@reddit
Exist50 may be a little obsessed, but he actually posts facts and has a proven track record of correct predictions. All u/HTwoN has a track record of is astroturfing and trolling.
ExtendedDeadline@reddit
Honestly are you exist50?
Legal-Insurance-8291@reddit
In a sub where 95% of people have no industry knowledge I do admire when someone who actually has knowledge contributes.
ExtendedDeadline@reddit
Ok
HTwoN@reddit
How do you know he has a track record of 90% anything when you just joined a month ago?
Legal-Insurance-8291@reddit
I've been here for like 15 years.
HTwoN@reddit
That's why I'm telling you to use your main.
Legal-Insurance-8291@reddit
This is my main currently.
HTwoN@reddit
Yeah, and I’m prince of Denmark.
Sani_48@reddit
he knows just right what tje facts are and he spins it the way he likes it.
once i wanted a source for hus huge claims. he just said he has non, its just his vibe.
ExtendedDeadline@reddit
Yes. They're not dumb. They have a lot of info. But they utilize it in nefarious ways.. it's a damn shame.
PainterRude1394@reddit
Oh yeah once you dig in it's largely regurtitated cherry picked rumors to craft a narrative.
ExtendedDeadline@reddit
Exist is something.
addscontext5261@reddit
I remember seeing a post the other day about AMD losing OEM clients due to poor business support.
His only comment was something along the lines of “well it’s okay because Intel is losing so many salespeople now.” You gotta be impressed, guys a professional hater
HTwoN@reddit
Right on cue. KEKW.
SkillYourself@reddit
It's like a checklist of user accounts. I guess the German went to bed, though.
gatorbater5@reddit
i tagged them as 'team userbenchmork'
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
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ExtendedDeadline@reddit
It's awful and some of them are vile, even though at face value, if you weren't paying attention, they seem somewhat sensible... Until you dig deeper and see a long post history of bullshit against Intel and/or burner accounts.
RazingsIsNotHomeNow@reddit
Just wait, this post is only 15 minutes old.
DerpSenpai@reddit
You know that this is always a pricing issue? if Intel makes a bargain deal with a company, they are going to accept. It doesn't mean the node is any good. This isn't a core product of AWS Cloud. It's not Graviton. They are not getting KEY customers that show the node is any good.
Are they pulling any of the ARM guys to Intel? as of this moment no. The moment that Intel produces a decent chip for mobile with QC/Mediatek or Nvidia makes a GPU there. we will talk
frogchris@reddit
99% of the people here never worked in semiconductors and are just laymen repeating whatever they read from journalist who also know nothing about semiconductors lol.
LeotardoDeCrapio@reddit
I personally think it is hilarious seeing people, who know fuck all about basic EE, go at it about process nodes just like people, who have never played the sport, do about player stats. Similar thing with people, who have never written a line of assembler in their lives, getting emotionally triggered for/against specific ISAs.
Kind of highlights how commoditized tech has become in general. It is such an integral and pervasive part of peoples lives, and the barriers of entry to interact with and operate computing devices are basically non existent at this point.
That you have unwashed masses stablishing emotional connections with it now, just as they do with cars, sports, religions, politics, etc.
Phobophobia94@reddit
You don't understand! Intel is the blue team, AMD is the red team, and Nvidia is the green team, but my favorite color is red!
DaBIGmeow888@reddit
How does one new customer (Amazon), erase the other customers (Sony, Broadcom, SoftBank, Qualcomm, etc...) legitimate concerns?
Due_Calligrapher_800@reddit
Link to their legitimate concerns? I can’t find anything other than half baked articles from “unknown employees who want to remain anonymous”
bob-@reddit
Youre replying to one of the anti-intel bots, just check his history
Worldly_Apple1920@reddit
Well, companies do have NDAs, so you will never have an official statement from company, it will always be anonymous engineer.
gahlo@reddit
Then there's no way to know they're legitimate concerns.
Dangerman1337@reddit
Sony wanted a better deal, Intel wanted higher margins.
DaBIGmeow888@reddit
Beggars can't be choosers when you are unprofitable as Intel.
tacticalangus@reddit
You have been spamming this over and over again everywhere. The reality is that you know basically nothing about what actually happened between those customers and Intel, why they walked away or if they walked away at all. Whether there was an issue, if the issue was technical in nature, or if it was an issue that could be fixed and still continue the engagement.
The actual level of details provided about those customer engagement by any reputable source is extremely sparse but you seem to want to take that to support your strongly biased conclusions.
Intel announced MediaTek, Microsoft and Amazon (along with some smaller players) as foundry customers and has at least a dozen or more evaluating 18A using the released 1.0 PDK. It is pretty unlikely that it is a disaster of a process node as you have been trying to suggest. It doesn't mean that it will all go perfectly, but that also doesn't mean it is a dumpster fire. No need for all-or-nothing thinking.
Worldly_Apple1920@reddit
I am not optimistic based on the decade long yield and delay issues afflicting 14nm and 10nm. Yet somehow 18A is right around the corner.
Legal-Insurance-8291@reddit
18A is so amazing they canceled 20A it was a refinement of 🤡
Legal-Insurance-8291@reddit
Because this sub is filled with fan boys who treat thus like a football match and get mad when presented with actual facts.
dern_the_hermit@reddit
Eh, I think you're both referring to two different ways of lookin' at it. A process doesn't need to be "absolute trash" in order to still have "legitimate concerns".
ProfessionalPrincipa@reddit
A fair number of posters the other way are literal stock bros.
12A1313IT@reddit
Amd_stock members everytime. It's so cringe
LeotardoDeCrapio@reddit
The intel ones seem a bit more triggered nowadays, wonder why.
12A1313IT@reddit
You see people who like Intel who raid/brigade AMD threads? Reality is a strong Intel means it is very bad for AMD's business, and the stock holders know it. It just makes it more sad that they think they can change public opinion by brigading reddit.
BatteryPoweredFriend@reddit
There are literally Nvidia and Intel stockholder users who constantly moans about r/Amd_Stock "flooding" this sub at every opportunity.
ABotelho23@reddit
Can you blame anyone's skepticism? It has always been about seeing results, not Intel's spiel. Intel has been performing like shit. Why would anyone believe the new nodes would be any better before seeing real data that isn't from Intel?
soggybiscuit93@reddit
Expressing doubt is different from being convinced it is and will be shit. Skepticism is fine and justified, but being convinced that it's definitely not good is entirely different.
Legal-Insurance-8291@reddit
It objectively is shit right now for Intel. How can you even deny that?
NirXY@reddit
Apparently Amazon disagrees..
Worldly_Apple1920@reddit
Sony, Broadcom, SoftBank, Qualcomm disagrees.
soggybiscuit93@reddit
Sony was never evaluating Foundry Services lol. It was considering Intel design and unsurprisingly stuck with their existing supplier.
Worldly_Apple1920@reddit
How does Intel hope to win customers from TSMC with such a defeatist attitude?
soggybiscuit93@reddit
?? These are unrelated. There's many reasons why Sony would want AMD for PS6. Easy backwards compatability, over a decade of working together, etc. Consoles are also historically slim margins.
Intel lost a bid to supply presumably a Nova Lake + Celestial custom APU for the PS6. Sony never evaluated 18A.
ThankGodImBipolar@reddit
There’s been no news of Sony evaluating 18A, but it seems unlikely to me that they haven’t. If Sony was in discussion with Intel over providing an APU for the PS6 then I’m sure that 18A would have been part of the discussion. Even if AMD is the supplier for the PS6 chips, Sony might still be interested in evaluating 18A. AMD even benefits if Sony goes with IFS because those console APU’s are probably a “waste” of their fab allocation compared to higher margin parts anyways. The Switch 2 APU is rumored to be fabbed by Samsung; I would imagine that Nvidia and Nintendo were motivated to do so for similar reasons.
soggybiscuit93@reddit
I'm sure the node used was more of a fun-fact in the discussions vs the more important topic of performance, cost, volume, features, and time frame.
Legal-Insurance-8291@reddit
This announcement is also Intel design and not a foundry customer.
soggybiscuit93@reddit
This announcement is part of the Intel "Systems Foundry" model they were touting earlier this year to investors. The claimed unique ability to not just be a foundry, but to co-develop custom designs to be manufactured at said foundry.
HTwoN@reddit
Here is another alt. This is getting pathetic.
What does Sony has to do with IFS?
Worldly_Apple1920@reddit
Just because someone says something that you don't like, does not mean they are an 'alt'.
HTwoN@reddit
Account made Jun2024, shit on intel exclusively. yeah.
Legal-Insurance-8291@reddit
Just because they announced a deal doesn't mean Intel is magically a good company all of a sudden. You people are legit nuts.
yabn5@reddit
No, but a design win on 18A is big. If they can rack a few more then IFS has a promising future. They were never going to beat TSMC as a foundry this decade. But if they can become the #2 foundry, then US leading edge chip production has been saved.
Exist50@reddit
This is an Intel internal design win.
soggybiscuit93@reddit
Can we narrow the scope? Because we can debate Intel's overall financial situation and 18A's progress as two separate topics.
No one is denying their poor financial situation. But this is the second design with this week that Foundry has announced.
Legal-Insurance-8291@reddit
The purpose of a company is to make money. The Financials are all that matter. And both these "wins" were existing contracts that basically got reaffirmed this week to support Intel. The federal government was literally out asking US companies to support Intel earlier this week. You gotta see this in context.
soggybiscuit93@reddit
We can discuss the technical merits of an upcoming node on a Hardware sub independent of the company's current P&L statements.
Intel's financial woes are the direct result of a lack of IFS clients. Amazon is the first major private company to conclude their 18A evaluation with positive feedback and a signed agreement. These are not existing contracts.
The US government asking design companies to look into Intel Fabs is almost certainly laying the groundwork for future US manufacturing requirements on DoD chip procurement.
ThankGodImBipolar@reddit
Exactly - I’m subscribed to r/hardware and not r/intelstock or r/techstocks for a reason. Intel could sink tomorrow, or the geopolitical situation in Taiwan could devolve overnight, and it should have next to no impact on the discussion of whether 18A is a good node or not. If the commenter you responded to truly feels the way they do, there are different communities with people who are more interested in discussing those aspects of this larger topic.
TheVog@reddit
Shhhhhh not too loud!!! I want to keep loading up on sub-$20 INTC
Invest0rnoob1@reddit
18A is the most advanced large scale production as far as I know
Anfros@reddit
Even if they are getting lower yields and/or performance than TSMC, fab capacity is a huge bottleneck right now. None of the large players have any interest in TSMC becoming a monopoly.
Legal-Insurance-8291@reddit
Intel 3 seems decent, but even Intel themselves have cut expectations for 18A and obviously canceled 20A entirely.
Dangerman1337@reddit
I just hope 18A is good and gets customers and we have a good competitor to TSMC and IFS gets the money to develop further.
People who want Intel to fail to laugh at Pat, TSMC raised their N4 wafer prices, what do you think if IFS fails?
Legal-Insurance-8291@reddit
Nobody WANTS Intel to fail, some of us just look at the facts instead of hope.
CJKay93@reddit
Honestly, do not take anything on this subreddit with any level of seriousness. People actually working in a hardware-adjacent industry are outnumbered 1,000:1 to bog-standard PC gamers.
FunBeneficial236@reddit
All that was said was “they aren’t ready for mass production” which is inferred knowledge anyways as they want to mass produce in 2025. But redditors are illiterate.
DaBIGmeow888@reddit
I read it as they are not viable for HVM even in early-mid 2025 (i.e., expect delays).
3Dchaos777@reddit
Yes.
Next-Last-Next@reddit
That’s great for Intel! Getting back on track is good for everyone.
HTwoN@reddit
If it uses Intel foundry in large volume then it’s a foundry win.
-protonsandneutrons-@reddit
"AI fabric chip for AWS on Intel 18A" - basically an enterprise network chip? Perhaps something like the AWS Elastic Fabric Adapter between Tranium chips?
IIRC, this is now the 4th customer on 18A: Faraday Designs making an evaluation platform of Arm Neoverse; Microsoft making a vague AI chip; the DoD making some prototype chips.
Exist50@reddit
It's an Intel in-house chip, just designed for AWS's needs, so not a foundry win. Same deal with Ericsson. Intel's networking side of the business is probably the most well-run part at this point.
ThankGodImBipolar@reddit
Framing the deal in this way is frankly idiotic. What’s important is that the fabs are running at as close to 100% capacity as possible, and that non-Intel companies are spending their own money on designing the chips to be tapped out there. So, while the chip is designed by Intel, I doubt it’s costing them anything.
Absolutely a foundry win.
Exist50@reddit
This is Intel designing the chip, not a 3rd party. That's exactly my point. And it certainly does cost them.
ThankGodImBipolar@reddit
Do you believe that Intel is doing the work for free? There are a couple reasons I can think of:
Doing the AWS semi-custom design for little/no money and producing the chips is cheaper than leaving the fabs empty
Perhaps the money they lose on the semi-custom design will be made up for by profits from what AWS is buying the wafers for.
But, I don’t see any reason to suggest that either is the case. Regardless of the specifics though, I can’t imagine that Intel entered this partnership unless it was beneficial in some way; and, because IFS is a key part of the deal and is clearly Intel’s priority, I doubt they’re shafting that part of the business.
Exist50@reddit
Of course they benefit. They make these chips, and them Amazon buys them. That's where the money is. There may be some NRE involved, but RnD is definitely going to be coming mostly from Intel.
This is also something they need to have in their portfolio anyway. Nvidia's lock-in on the networking side is almost as strong their compute. Intel needs an answer to that if they hope to challenge Nvidia in the AI datacenter.
ZigZagZor@reddit
Was not it Broadcomm who has leadership in AI networking??
soggybiscuit93@reddit
Isn't this exactly the "Systems Foundry Model" that Intel touted as a competitive advantage? That Amazon can commission them to co-develop a custom design and have it manufactured by them?
Exist50@reddit
Hard to parse through all the marketing, but I think "systems foundry" is more about Intel's ability to offer wafers, packaging, IP, etc all under one roof than it has to do with custom or semi-custom efforts. And I think even that may be pushing it in this particular case. My understanding is this chiplet is something Intel wants to be much more widespread, with AWS serving as an early/definitional partner. Sort of like Google and their DPUs/IPUs.
Regardless of what "systems foundry" entails, however, this is still a competitive advantage for them and does pretty directly help the foundry. Instead of convincing a 3rd party's design teams, now they just have to convince Intel's own, which are going to be much more receptive. But make no mistake, if they thought Intel Foundry wasn't up to the task, this same product would still be made, just at TSMC instead.
It's also worth noting that Intel's networking group have been some of the earliest adopters of new nodes. First 10nm server chip with Snow Ridge and almost first to Intel 4 with the Ericsson custom design, for example. It's not surprising to see them being similarly ambitious with 18A.
caustictoast@reddit
They're going to make more 18A chips as a result of this deal right? Then it's a foundry win.
Exist50@reddit
There's "foundry" as in the manufacturing in general, and then "foundry" as in 3rd party. And we know Intel's internal designs aren't really competing in an open market.
Regardless of the semantics you want to use, it doesn't belong on a list with Microsoft et al.
-protonsandneutrons-@reddit
Oh, welp, a little less interesting. At least something more 18A, but networking does not seem like a major die.
It'll be interesting to tease out what "co-developing" AWS has done, though, vs their previous fabric designs. IIRC, AWS has input on Graviton designs, though not actually "co-development" and more "customization" and "feature requests".
Exist50@reddit
Think UltraEthernet or similar. AWS wants a networking alternative to Infiniband/Mellanox.
-protonsandneutrons-@reddit
Ah, apologies, meant to write AWS has input on Arm's Neoverse uArch, not Graviton. Fixed.
//
Ah, that makes a lot of sense.
Exist50@reddit
Amazon also wants something they can integrate with their own SoCs and infrastructure. A UCIe chiplet accomplishes that. If you want to scale up NVLink, Nvidia's answer is "buy Grace instead". They're gouging on the networking infrastructure as much as the accelerator side.
monocasa@reddit
No, and they pretty much prefer FPGAs to asics for their SDNs as it is. The routing table gets compiled down to a runtime reconfigurable segment of the FPGA.
Reading between the lines, this looks like an matrix multipliers directly hooked up to Ethernet rather than jumping through PCIe first. Kinda like tenstorrent's larger designs. RoCE and similar technologies are basically Infiniband as it is.
LeotardoDeCrapio@reddit
Interesting, thank you for that info. Haven't keep up much with infra stuff.
Exist50@reddit
Read "AI" as "targeting AI systems", i.e. lots of extremely high bandwidth Ethernet scale out.
monocasa@reddit
I mean, Amazon already has custom ToR Ethernet hardware that's top of the line wrt bandwidth scale out.
Exist50@reddit
This is actually one area where BSDP, or PowerVia in particular (true general purpose metal layers), can produce interesting results. And contrary to some claims, bleeding edge PHYs do benefit from node advances.
Besides, we're talking 2026-ish. 18A should be relatively mature by then. And if you believe their cost claims, it should eventually make sense for even IO dies. Though for anything but the bleeding edge, N6 is really compelling (see: MTL, LNL, PTL,...).
Asleep_Holiday_1640@reddit
Yep Ericsson Microsoft AWS Intel
And more to come
Exist50@reddit
Ericsson is not an IFS customer. That's Intel in-house design. Same with this AWS deal.
Asleep_Holiday_1640@reddit
So which are the IFS customers?
I know Nvidia gave the packaging deal for the H100s.
Exist50@reddit
Who knows. They've named Microsoft for 18A, and something for Mediatek (Intel 16/22FFL?). And I don't think and Nvidia deal has been confirmed, and the rumor is quite old by now. Doesn't seem to have gone through.
It's also unclear how Intel's doing the accounting. Maybe they're claiming the Ericsson win for foundry as well, even if that's not quite the reality.
tset_oitar@reddit
No way they're counting themselves as one of the whale customers lol
unityofsaints@reddit
Go to Azure for all my cloud commuting needs, got it.
III-V@reddit
Damn, they finally did it. And caught a big fish too.
Exist50@reddit
Nah, this is silicon from Intel's networking team, not an external foundry win.
III-V@reddit
Lame
Lalaland94292425@reddit
Seeing is believing. Until and unless 18A enters HVM, it's vaporware, given Intel's track record post 14nm
TritiumNZlol@reddit
Don't let grandma down
auradragon1@reddit
Intel IFS supporter and Intel designs hater here. Also an Intel stock bag holder.
I'm surprised that people are caught off guard by this announcement.
I expect every major chip company to eventually manufacture something on IFS. Apple, Nvidia, AMD, Amazon, Google, Qualcomm, Mediatek, etc. will continue to use TSMC as their main supplier and for their leading designs. That's not going to change anytime soon. But all of them will want a second supplier to negotiate lower prices with TSMC and as a hedge if something were to happen to TSMC.
Exist50@reddit
This in particular is not a foundry win. The chip in question is a product of Intel's networking group, not Amazon. So kind of the opposite of your position, tbh...
auradragon1@reddit
What is my position?
Exist50@reddit
Foundry good, Design bad, no?
auradragon1@reddit
Nope.
Foundry has better future than design. That's my position.
Exist50@reddit
Yes, that's more or less what I said. And this in particular is more a win for the design side than foundry. If they didn't think 18A would be up to the task in time, this same chip would be made at TSMC, but Intel design either way.
auradragon1@reddit
No, it's not the same.
I think both foundry and design are bad. But Foundry has a better future than design.
It's not a win for design. Amazon was going to buy Xeon CPUs regardless. They always do. They've just been buying a lot less. This is just Intel lumping routine Xeon sales to AWS together with a custom AI "fabric" chip on 18A.
Primary_Olive_5444@reddit
anyone knows what's a "Fabric Chip"
is it a IO die (like those found in AMD Ryzen | Threadripper) where multiple CCD gets connected to centralized IO die?
Exist50@reddit
Ethernet, mainly.
W00DERS0N60@reddit
Maybe that dude can get Granny's money back.
DaBIGmeow888@reddit
How did this thread turn into an Intel vindication and haters whining thread. You guys get too personal about a corporation.
VirtualWord2524@reddit
This subs been infested with stock cheerleaders and doomers
katt2002@reddit
I was once a believer.
III-V@reddit
This is how hardware communities always are.
SkillYourself@reddit
You're replying to one of them lol
yabn5@reddit
IFS succeeding means that there wouldn’t be a TSMC monopoly at leading edge. IFS failing means that Beijing has the world’s leading edge chip production within cruise missile range and could disrupt the global economy with several dozen cruise missiles for a decade at a minimum.
Everyone should hope that IFS is able to be competitive. Except Beijing.
Real-Human-1985@reddit
this sub is full of employees. it was baaad a few years ago.
Rodot@reddit
IDK if it's even employees. Every person I know who works for AMD or Intel switches between companies every couple of years because you get more of a pay bump by moving than staying in one position.
LonelyNixon@reddit
Their job is to post on reddit and praise their company
Affectionate-Memory4@reddit
Pretty much yeah. I've gone ASML - Intel - Samsung - Intel in the last 13 years doing litho work. I've been with Intel for the last 6 and am probably moving again eventually.
My position doesn't exist at AMD, because they're fabless, but a lot of work or old grad school friends made the hop between Intel and them every few years as well.
LightMoisture@reddit
Solid win for IFS. Momentum will only continue from here.
Legal-Insurance-8291@reddit
These comments on nuts. People treating a multinational corporation winning a contract like their favorite football team. What makes it even more absurd is that this is basically the equivalent of a football team breaking a 5 game losing streak and their fans acting like they're gonna make the playoffs now.
III-V@reddit
Dude, we're just sick and tired of the constant negative news. Like, it's especially bad with Intel, but everything is falling apart these days.
Worldly_Apple1920@reddit
I'm pretty sure there are Intel employees.
Legal-Insurance-8291@reddit
I honestly hope it's employees because at least then it would make sense. If it's just random people with nothing better to do than to spam positive things about Intel then that's just sad.
HTwoN@reddit
Said people who made it their job to shit on Intel.
Legal-Insurance-8291@reddit
The posters on this sub aren't responsible for tanking Intel's stock, causing mass layoffs and having every major business news site write about how Intel was on the verge of failure. Intel's own failures are responsible for all that. Open up your eyes dude.
HTwoN@reddit
If you are trying to spin this news into something negative for Intel, then you have an agenda and need to check yourself. Nobody is denying that Intel is having a hard time, but positive news is positive news.
Legal-Insurance-8291@reddit
Lots of people are denying Intel is having a hard time, yourself included. And obviously this is a positive data point for Intel (their stock is up 15%), but the fact you only wanna talk about this one positive data point and ignore all the negative ones shows you have no interest in actual intelligent discussion. As does all your troll posts and accusing everyone of being Exist50 in disguise. 🤣
katt2002@reddit
I agree with you guys so I'm now Exist50 as well. :)
soggybiscuit93@reddit
It's only publicly unproven.
Potential customers have much more info and samples to work with.
HTwoN@reddit
"intelligent discussion" like "US gov forced Amazon". Yeah, get out of here.
Worldly_Apple1920@reddit
The most ardent pro-Intel supporters on reddit are most likely Intel employees, senior management. The general consumers who been burned by 13/14th gen won't be astroturfing reddit, they have already given up.
jucestain@reddit
"just still around" LOL. Fairly certain if you did an audit half those employees arent even showing up for work.
Aristotelaras@reddit
You know that if Intel fails to deliver on 18A and tsmc remains the only cutting edge faundry then high tech devices will get even more expensive than they are now since they will become a monopoly. Yes I want Intel to succeed, no I don't own any of their stock.
Exist50@reddit
There's a difference between wanting something and ignoring available evidence to insist that thing has already happened.
Legal-Insurance-8291@reddit
Literally 90% of this sub seems incapable of understanding that difference. It's honestly mind blowing to me.
Legal-Insurance-8291@reddit
I want Intel to succeed too (and I do own the stock), but I'm just looking at the facts here..
jucestain@reddit
Dude the difference will be tsmc chips will be like 3% faster. 99.99% of people wont even be able to tell the difference between an intel 14nm chip and a 3nm tsmc chip.
Exist50@reddit
If it was that small a gap, no one would be using N3, yet even Intel themselves are.
Kyrond@reddit
It is objectively good there is some competition in the fab industry. Samsung was terrible for a long time, while Intel had nothing. GloFo dropped out entirely. TSMC is jacking up the prices every year and they could go higher because there is no competition.
Legal-Insurance-8291@reddit
It absolutely would be good, but the probability isn't great.
jucestain@reddit
You're 100% right but to go with the football analogy if you point this out to football fans YOU become the asshole. Just let people enjoy their emotional rollercoaster and delusion, it's the only thing a lot of people got.
Exist50@reddit
I'm not sure why all these comments are treating this as some overwhelming victory for 18A. Intel aims to produce peripheral chip on 18A, probably 2 years after they claim it to be manufacturing ready. And it's not an IFS win either, but rather Intel in house.
catch878@reddit (OP)
Ooh a testable hypothesis, count me in!
I looked through every account that's commented on this post and found all the accounts that are 1 year old or less (personally I consider < 6 months to be "new" but I included up to a year just in case). I've organized them by positive or negative reaction to this post. For reference there are ~42 unique accounts commenting in this thread at the time of posting. The majority of them I would categorize as either positive on this news or neutral. There are around 5, maybe 6 commenters that I would describe as negative on this post.
Negative:
Positive:
Exist50@reddit
Look at the comment history of some of the accounts. Many of them are very sparse, and obviously alts or something similar. Certainly not people who frequent the sub.
soggybiscuit93@reddit
Come on. You know that 18 months after a node being HVM ready isn't unheard of. N3B/N3E had how many designs in customer hands within 12 months of HVM? 1?
Exist50@reddit
For TSMC, "HVM ready" means Apple ramp. They also had issues with N3, where they delayed it half a year for N3B, but never announced that. Never claimed everyone but Intel is perfect.
Also, that "1" design happens to be a complex mobile SoC, and one of the highest volume and fastest ramps in the world.
dudleywtf85@reddit
Crow ain't u got wings get off her back