It's actually quite scary the damage some planes have taken when you delve into the history. Many planes that looked damaged beyond repair but yet they are still flying today. Think this plane, as well as Gimli glider which flew for many years after the incident.
Us AvGeeks (especially ones with an Engineering background) know that with the correct testing methods etc. the planes will be as good as it was, if not better as many parts are replaced with newer improved parts if possible.
This Condor plane incident, imagine your 80 year old grandma is going to fly tomorrow on this plane and you show her these images while telling her that it's repaired and all fine. You can't tell me that she won't start to worry at least a little bit.
Qantas 32 in Singapore also, though not quite the same immediate visual impact. Qantas have more incentive than most airlines to make an otherwise-uneconomic repair, though.
It's worth extra to them (so it's not uneconomic overall, just as an isolated decision) because it means they get to maintain their "never had a jet hull loss" record, which has some marketing value. No idea how to quantify that, but I bet someone at Qantas has some quite specific numbers pinned on it!
It's bizarre that they never put on their oxygen masks. I wonder if they had done it, if they could have figured out a way to land the plane (even if they had to do it in the ocean).
With all four hydraulic lines to the rear ruder cut there is no controlling the aft ruder in any way. That leaves you with the thrust of your engines and the landing gear/landing flaps (which I *think* you can control independantely for each wing) so there is no real steering capabilities left. Depending on the hydraulic system it might even be that on each circute with the rear ruder the same circuit also powers the landing flaps and all other control surfaces on the plane - rendering these powerless as well as your oil is flowing out of the plane at the rear. You are not landing this plane without your rear ruder and especially not without all your control surfaces.
I remember following the MD80 that "crashed" at Bradley airport in Hartford in 1995 after flying through treetops (the airport logo?) and ingesting a bunch of wood into the engines and then smacking some antennas before touching down right at the first bit of runway with $8m in damages. (American 1572).
Years later it slid off a runway in Dallas and they fixed it again and kept flying it.
My experience is with cars, where there are large frame and body components that, if compromised, cannot be effectively repaired. Is there something similar for commercial airframes? Or are they modular enough that you can replace the damaged pieces and sections?
The Gimli glider was only lightly damaged - it got refuelled and took off from Gimli only two days after the incident. The only out of ordinary (but not unusual) damage was some fuselage scraping when the nosegear didn't drop all the way down, and a couple of blown tires. Obviously it needed to be checked over as well as some cosmetic and minor damage but for a notorious incident the plane was almost as unscathed as the passengers.
The ADN page for the incident says no occupants, but I checked the source newspaper article and it says (in German) that one technician was “lightly injured”, so I guess it must have been the guy in the cockpit.
People underestimate how durable planes are. the British Airways 777 that caught fire at Vegas about a decade ago (G-VIIO) was repaired and returned to service 6 months later. There is a picture of it at Victorville with new unpainted skin around the area that caught fire.
The recent incident at Atlanta with the CRJ and A350, the CRJ almost certainly can be repaired and made airworthy again. Whether Delta does or not is down to whether it's financially viable to repair (it's only a 10 year old jet) or if it makes more economical sense to just sell it or scrap it and use it for spare parts on other Delta CRJs
Presumably the ‘ribs’ can be replaced, but is there some sort of ‘backbone’ than runs the length of the aircraft that would cause the whole thing to be written off if it was damaged?
the opposite can happen. British Airways flight 38, also a 777, being written off because some ice blocked the engine's fuel heat exchanger. Or that A330 that went on a suicidal dive because of suspected cosmic rays/particles (literally something invisible lol)
The investigative team concluded that cosmic rays were possible but unlikely to be the cause, and a simple hardware fault was more likely the root cause. Saying it was cosmic rays like you did is really misleading.
kinda misleading perhaps, but still a possibility. In the video I linked, an incident in Belgium that could also have been related to cosmic rays is discussed; it's not impossible.
That's a bit misleading- BA38 was written off because it crash landed into the ground, not specifically because the ice accumulation itself. And for QF72, the actual event trigger was never definitely answered but it's unlikely that it was a cosmic ray, and the airplane didn't suffer any significant damage.
the planespotters airframe info says it was "repaired [...] with fuselage section of MSN 9629"
I've done a bunch more searching around and somebody on this german forum said it was repaird by airbus technicians at berlin and was repainted at nottingham (EMA/EGNX)
(repaird in this case meaning they took off the cockpit section and replaced it with a new one off the production line (all the way at the bottom of the page))
There was a "frankenstein" F-18 Hornet, in which the [canadians?] mated intact front and rear sections from two crash-landed planes. It took 2 or 3 years to complete, flew for just a few months and then crashed for real...
It was finnish HN-468, build from damaged 1 seater Finnish hornet and section of damaged Canadian hornet in Finland. According to the accident report there was a fault within elevator's servo actuator during quite intesive manouvering, which caused the crash. Modification/repair had taken 100 000 man hours and cost 15 million not counting the value of planes used for it.
It's not exactly "sliced". Many airframe designs have a production break aft of the flight deck. Cradle the aircraft, disconnect everything along the production break, unbolt the nose section, bolt on a replacement assembly, reconnect the disconnected, test everything. There's more detail, but it's a tedious list.
I thought the new part was taken from another jet to be built given it has an MSN assigned, but MSN 9600 through 10000 does not exist within A320/321 production list. Maybe it was built from scratch for this one specifically.
Thank, I was just about to chime in that it looks totaled due to the pressure vessel damage. I thought it was carbon fiber, but A321 have aluminum construction in many places... Maybe that's why it lives.
I thought I knew planes, but what is that big arm-looking thing over the left seat in the last pic? Is that part of the overhead panel? HUD mount? I don't think I've noticed those in the cockpits before so I figure it came from some place I don't normally look.
CrappyTan69@reddit
They'll need some inop tags for those displays.
umatex@reddit
It's actually quite scary the damage some planes have taken when you delve into the history. Many planes that looked damaged beyond repair but yet they are still flying today. Think this plane, as well as Gimli glider which flew for many years after the incident.
Us AvGeeks (especially ones with an Engineering background) know that with the correct testing methods etc. the planes will be as good as it was, if not better as many parts are replaced with newer improved parts if possible.
This Condor plane incident, imagine your 80 year old grandma is going to fly tomorrow on this plane and you show her these images while telling her that it's repaired and all fine. You can't tell me that she won't start to worry at least a little bit.
blastcat4@reddit
Qantas' infamous Bangkok incident in 1999 will always be a prime example of bringing the dead back from the grave.
Qantas Flight 1
VMaxF1@reddit
Qantas 32 in Singapore also, though not quite the same immediate visual impact. Qantas have more incentive than most airlines to make an otherwise-uneconomic repair, though.
Gobbling@reddit
Care to explain why this is the case? Just curious :)
VMaxF1@reddit
It's worth extra to them (so it's not uneconomic overall, just as an isolated decision) because it means they get to maintain their "never had a jet hull loss" record, which has some marketing value. No idea how to quantify that, but I bet someone at Qantas has some quite specific numbers pinned on it!
erhue@reddit
well yeah, only if it it's done correctly. Otherwise you'll end up like that Japanese 747 that lost all hydraulics.
VermilionKoala@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Air_Lines_Flight_123
JAL has a museum where (ISTR you need to book in advance) you can go and see objects such as notes written by those on this flight to their families.
Sensitive_Yellow_121@reddit
It's bizarre that they never put on their oxygen masks. I wonder if they had done it, if they could have figured out a way to land the plane (even if they had to do it in the ocean).
FenizSnowvalor@reddit
With all four hydraulic lines to the rear ruder cut there is no controlling the aft ruder in any way. That leaves you with the thrust of your engines and the landing gear/landing flaps (which I *think* you can control independantely for each wing) so there is no real steering capabilities left. Depending on the hydraulic system it might even be that on each circute with the rear ruder the same circuit also powers the landing flaps and all other control surfaces on the plane - rendering these powerless as well as your oil is flowing out of the plane at the rear. You are not landing this plane without your rear ruder and especially not without all your control surfaces.
WoodSorrow@reddit
The plane was uncontrollable
Pizza_Metaphor@reddit
I remember following the MD80 that "crashed" at Bradley airport in Hartford in 1995 after flying through treetops (the airport logo?) and ingesting a bunch of wood into the engines and then smacking some antennas before touching down right at the first bit of runway with $8m in damages. (American 1572).
Years later it slid off a runway in Dallas and they fixed it again and kept flying it.
realsimulator1@reddit
MD-80 is not your regular workhorse. They don't call it a Maddog for nothin'...
laskitude@reddit
They do??
ktappe@reddit
MD….mad dog.
ChillZedd@reddit
What do you think the MD stands for?
realsimulator1@reddit
Yep
Frostsorrow@reddit
Last I saw the Gimili glider is still around to go see it (could be a replica it's been a while).
jtshinn@reddit
I think it was fairly recently sent to the boneyard. Maybe a covid casualty.
Photosynthetic@reddit
For a while there you could buy luggage tags made of its fuselage skin.
SoaDMTGguy@reddit
My experience is with cars, where there are large frame and body components that, if compromised, cannot be effectively repaired. Is there something similar for commercial airframes? Or are they modular enough that you can replace the damaged pieces and sections?
Gnome_de_Plume@reddit
The Gimli glider was only lightly damaged - it got refuelled and took off from Gimli only two days after the incident. The only out of ordinary (but not unusual) damage was some fuselage scraping when the nosegear didn't drop all the way down, and a couple of blown tires. Obviously it needed to be checked over as well as some cosmetic and minor damage but for a notorious incident the plane was almost as unscathed as the passengers.
Snarkys@reddit
I can assure you that this Condor plane will not be flying tomorrow….
realsimulator1@reddit
Are you an aerospace engineer? 🙂
camsn747@reddit
I'm relieved not to see any blood in that captain's seat.
thesuperunknown@reddit
It was being towed at the time, so no one on board. No injuries reported.
SRM_Thornfoot@reddit
There is always someone in the cockpit when an airliner is getting towed to operate the brakes if the tow disconnects.
nic-sfr@reddit
Not always, depends on airport and airline. In FRA, this airline doesn't have anyone on board during towing.
thesuperunknown@reddit
The ADN page for the incident says no occupants, but I checked the source newspaper article and it says (in German) that one technician was “lightly injured”, so I guess it must have been the guy in the cockpit.
comparmentaliser@reddit
I thought the worst after seeing the black tarp over the windshield
crankkpad@reddit
I think there were minor injuries iirc.
I was just thinking, well fuck that our aircraft and just then remembered it happen almost 10 years ago
D-AIAF still flies today after the complete nose section has been replaced.
Super_Tangerine_660@reddit
Almost 10 years ago
2015
MFW…
haustuer@reddit
Must have been brand new. Flight radar says it’s 9 Years old https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/11458334?utm_campaign=iOS&utm_medium=Referral&utm_source=iOS+App
Freddan_81@reddit
Impressive! I would have guessed it would have been a write off.
Solartaire@reddit
"Jeff!"
"Yes, boss?"
"Get the speed tape. All the speed tape."
jager_is_dead@reddit
for anyone wondering, happened in 2015 plane was repaired and is still flying
UsualRelevant2788@reddit
People underestimate how durable planes are. the British Airways 777 that caught fire at Vegas about a decade ago (G-VIIO) was repaired and returned to service 6 months later. There is a picture of it at Victorville with new unpainted skin around the area that caught fire.
The recent incident at Atlanta with the CRJ and A350, the CRJ almost certainly can be repaired and made airworthy again. Whether Delta does or not is down to whether it's financially viable to repair (it's only a 10 year old jet) or if it makes more economical sense to just sell it or scrap it and use it for spare parts on other Delta CRJs
DeathCabForYeezus@reddit
The repair for this place involved building a new forward fuselage section at the factory, shipping it over on a Beluga, and splicing it in.
comparmentaliser@reddit
Presumably the ‘ribs’ can be replaced, but is there some sort of ‘backbone’ than runs the length of the aircraft that would cause the whole thing to be written off if it was damaged?
Funkshow@reddit
No, there isn’t a keep like a ship.
jtshinn@reddit
Or a keel
Funkshow@reddit
That’s what I meant. Stupid auto-erect.
falcopilot@reddit
How many more CRJs does Delta plan to put up plano-e-plano with an A350?
zcomuto@reddit
Who would win, a 777-sized CRJ or 10 CRJ-sized 777s?
homorrhoid@reddit
777-sized CRJ kinda has a Star Trek vibe
erhue@reddit
the opposite can happen. British Airways flight 38, also a 777, being written off because some ice blocked the engine's fuel heat exchanger. Or that A330 that went on a suicidal dive because of suspected cosmic rays/particles (literally something invisible lol)
I_d0nt_know_why@reddit
Wait, I've never heard of the cosmic rays one. Got a link?
erhue@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qantas_Flight_72#FCPC_faulty_design
mthchsnn@reddit
The investigative team concluded that cosmic rays were possible but unlikely to be the cause, and a simple hardware fault was more likely the root cause. Saying it was cosmic rays like you did is really misleading.
erhue@reddit
kinda misleading perhaps, but still a possibility. In the video I linked, an incident in Belgium that could also have been related to cosmic rays is discussed; it's not impossible.
proxpi@reddit
That's a bit misleading- BA38 was written off because it crash landed into the ground, not specifically because the ice accumulation itself. And for QF72, the actual event trigger was never definitely answered but it's unlikely that it was a cosmic ray, and the airplane didn't suffer any significant damage.
Accidentallygolden@reddit
How do they do this kind of repairs?
Speed tape and flight to a repair shop or they can do this level of repair on site?
Murpydoo@reddit
This aircraft was a little past speed tape...
jager_is_dead@reddit
the planespotters airframe info says it was "repaired [...] with fuselage section of MSN 9629"
I've done a bunch more searching around and somebody on this german forum said it was repaird by airbus technicians at berlin and was repainted at nottingham (EMA/EGNX)
(repaird in this case meaning they took off the cockpit section and replaced it with a new one off the production line (all the way at the bottom of the page))
Accidentallygolden@reddit
That's a very nice picture
I find it wild that they can slice the plane open and switch the cockpit for a new one in an airport
Acceptable_Tie_3927@reddit
There was a "frankenstein" F-18 Hornet, in which the [canadians?] mated intact front and rear sections from two crash-landed planes. It took 2 or 3 years to complete, flew for just a few months and then crashed for real...
SoulOfTheDragon@reddit
It was finnish HN-468, build from damaged 1 seater Finnish hornet and section of damaged Canadian hornet in Finland. According to the accident report there was a fault within elevator's servo actuator during quite intesive manouvering, which caused the crash. Modification/repair had taken 100 000 man hours and cost 15 million not counting the value of planes used for it.
Metalbasher324@reddit
It's not exactly "sliced". Many airframe designs have a production break aft of the flight deck. Cradle the aircraft, disconnect everything along the production break, unbolt the nose section, bolt on a replacement assembly, reconnect the disconnected, test everything. There's more detail, but it's a tedious list.
nanapancakethusiast@reddit
The Frankenstein plane picture is awesome
galaxyhunter1@reddit
I thought the new part was taken from another jet to be built given it has an MSN assigned, but MSN 9600 through 10000 does not exist within A320/321 production list. Maybe it was built from scratch for this one specifically.
Conch-Republic@reddit
On site. They'll rent out hangar space and fly in people to come fix it, or hire locally. That plane wouldn't be flying anywhere.
ABoutDeSouffle@reddit
Poor guy who operated the tow truck.
cactusplants@reddit
Well, I guess a few million in repairs is far better than scrapping a plane that's worth 10s of millions.
I guess insurance would have covered it though, so why would they not scrap?
jetBlast350@reddit
About to ask why people were using cameras from 2010.
itchygentleman@reddit
i'm astonished that isnt a hull loss
wewd@reddit
It was a brand new plane, less than a year old at the time. Way too valuable to scrap. They replaced the cockpit section with a new one.
bg-j38@reddit
Wow that Condor livery... reminds me of WWI era dazzle camouflage used on naval vessels.
flybot66@reddit
Thank, I was just about to chime in that it looks totaled due to the pressure vessel damage. I thought it was carbon fiber, but A321 have aluminum construction in many places... Maybe that's why it lives.
erhue@reddit
thank you, I find this info as valuable as the post itself.
SimpleManc88@reddit
No. It’s clearly during COVID. Did you miss her face mask?
trimix4work@reddit (OP)
Thank you! I was looking for information but it was all in Japanese
GoatShot9605@reddit
That's what's known as "Connie gold!"
arc_reactor2@reddit
Little oopsie at work
RepublicansEqualScum@reddit
I thought I knew planes, but what is that big arm-looking thing over the left seat in the last pic? Is that part of the overhead panel? HUD mount? I don't think I've noticed those in the cockpits before so I figure it came from some place I don't normally look.
trimix4work@reddit (OP)
It's the actual window still in the frame. Reference the first picture
RepublicansEqualScum@reddit
Thanks, I see it now. I thought it was attached to the headrest or pillar. Can't say I've ever seen a window smashed in that badly!
UnscheduledCalendar@reddit
It’ll buff
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samokill@reddit
like a good neighbor
drone_driver24@reddit
With any luck, someone can benefit from some available engines. PW, are you listening?
avkspotting@reddit
That's D-AIAF, still flying today.
lemondeo@reddit
Flight delayed
DEADB33F@reddit
/r/CantParkThereMate
Wyattsawyer586558956@reddit
Some bondo and fiberglass should fix it up nicely
Montys_Asylum@reddit
Yet can still cut threw steel beams at speed, form nose, to wing tips, to tail fin and stabilizers.
Murky-Resident-3082@reddit
Ehh
InsertUsernameInArse@reddit
Stay below 10,000 and wear a jumper. You'll be right.
Designer_Buy_1650@reddit
If I could get both engines started, I think I could fly it out of there.
heyitsapotato@reddit
Have another drink, Ray!!
Terrebonniandadlife@reddit
I would post that that is not great but the pictures say it all
These-Bedroom-5694@reddit
That will buff right out.
thegreatreceasionpt2@reddit
You can’t park there.
WhoRoger@reddit
First image: Do you want to know how I got these scars?
Freddan_81@reddit
Where and when?
unlessyoumeantit@reddit
Berlin in January 2015
drsexington@reddit
See everybody? Buffed right out!
wasthatitthen@reddit
https://asn.flightsafety.org/asndb/320171
trimix4work@reddit (OP)
Not sure, I found the pictures on a Japanese news site
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thatredditdude101@reddit
Bad day.
interstellar-dust@reddit
Condor got craned?
Hotsilkywater69@reddit
Some spackle and some oregano and it should be fine.
actual_lettuc@reddit
*picks up and dials number*
Hey Boss, would you come down to the flight line when you have a second............
rcbif@reddit
I personally prefer the airplanes without fallen towers embedded into them.
Suitable_Produce_557@reddit
Ouch
LefsaMadMuppet@reddit
It looks more like one of those pictures where the chair gets sucked in to the MRI machine.
richardelmore@reddit
That's going to need a LOT of speed tape.
Dramatic_Kitchen_523@reddit
It’s only condor
OsamaBinLifting_@reddit
Anyone notice how weirdly short the van is in the second photo?
mach1alfa@reddit
it has a really tall roof so it looks streched out
torsten_dev@reddit
You gonna call ground or tower after that?
BackgroundGrade@reddit
Looks like the cup holder was damaged.
That's on the MMEL, no flying this one out today.
textonic@reddit
It’s a scratch….
Proper-Shan-Like@reddit
Ooops
bigcat611234@reddit
Someone's in trouble (unless it's violent winds/acts of God, in which case it's just an insurance problem, maybe). How much dineros to repair that??!!
IrishTex77@reddit
Understatement.
Ashamed_Potato69@reddit
Didn't even set the airbags off
BillSixty9@reddit
However 8 of 10 times it's much better to have this happen on the ground rather than in the air.
ShezSteel@reddit
Speed tape will sort
stlthy1@reddit
My old man is a television repairman, he’s got this ultimate set of tools. I can fix it!
MD-80-87@reddit
Aaahhhh !
NarutoBorutoSasuke@reddit
Some space tape should I do it! /s
PabloElLobo@reddit
Gosh, I hope those tower lights still work!
Soggy_Plane2270@reddit
Yea not ideal, but some spit and duct tape goes a long way
Dansredditname@reddit
Title of your sex tape
Solkre@reddit
That’s gotta be at least one roll of speed tape to fix.
Holzwier@reddit
Cool thing is that i have worked on that airplane after the swap of half of the nose section and upper skin.
Cole_Trickle1@reddit
Aerospace engineer here. Yeah that things fucked
tuggernaut27@reddit
Another read and sign.
SpecialCocker@reddit
Watch people blame Boeing for damage on an Airbus
anomalkingdom@reddit
Mom!
SuperBwahBwah@reddit
uh… h-how?
joecarter93@reddit
Just needs a bit of speed tape and she’ll be good as new.
kabow94@reddit
Not terrible
PunkAssBitch2000@reddit
Oh no. Thats a big oopsy. How does that even happen
skippythemoonrock@reddit
It started fallin' over, then it fell over.
anonduplo@reddit
Gravity
Hottage@reddit
Mildly inconvenient.
Tripledelete@reddit
ELI5, is shit like this even fixable?
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Manzanarre@reddit
Not great. Just terrible.
TampaPowers@reddit
Condor's new paint scheme somehow still a bigger tragedy than this.
blue_sword456@reddit
Well that's not ideal
Historical_Nature348@reddit
Suboptimal.
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SadPhase2589@reddit
Somehow this is Boeing’s fault.
TheAgedProfessor@reddit
So what is that, just a light standard? Did the plane hit it and pull it over, or did something else push it over into the plane?
trimix4work@reddit (OP)
It hit it during a tow
Resident-Tomato-7729@reddit
My goodness 😳
SlowAire@reddit
F.O.D.
MechanicalTurkish@reddit
They’ll be able to buff that out, no problem
Hypnoti_q@reddit
Imagine saying “ i fly airbus because of the get-fat table, 2 seconds later this goes straight to it
Buckus93@reddit
Gonna need a lot of speed tape.
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I_Fuck_Sharks_69@reddit
Oof
kingkevv123@reddit
that was 2016 at SXF (Berlin). a/c was repaired.
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WhereTheHighwayEnds@reddit
Can an pilots here let me know if this hurts the airplane?
RAMBO069@reddit
wow that's biiiiig damage and what exactly even it's that thing?
trimix4work@reddit (OP)
Light tower. It hit it during a tow. Somebody posted a link about it in the thread
reddituserperson1122@reddit
Not an expert but I don't think that's right...
OwnEgg0@reddit
I agree.
RDRBIH@reddit
Not good at all, this plane is out of service for ever looks like.
Lanternical@reddit
It's not great but at least it was fun to go plane scraping
ComprehensiveUsual89@reddit
Speed tape?
oddlotz@reddit
Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.
RandyBeaman@reddit
"I'm so fired." - tug driver
wasthatitthen@reddit
Happened in 2015
https://asn.flightsafety.org/asndb/320171
dr4gonr1der@reddit
Oops! That looks expensive!
yamthirdnow@reddit
“Hey, boss? Yeah, we’re gonna need more of that speed tape stuff.”
microview@reddit
That's gonna be a do over I'm afraid.
WinFar4030@reddit
slight delay at gate 1A
kockologus@reddit
That dent and buckle chart needs some updates…