Democracy may no longer be tenable in an age of AI: "Billionaire Larry Ellison says a vast AI-fueled surveillance system can ensure 'citizens will be on their best behavior'"
Posted by Anen-o-me@reddit | Libertarian | View on Reddit | 61 comments
49Flyer@reddit
This is why we don't want to live under a tyranny of "experts".
CrystalMenthol@reddit
This is why I don't want to give up my guns.
49Flyer@reddit
That too.
jstalm@reddit
Perfect rationality is a recipe for human suffering
Vohems@reddit
And this has been known for a while. Even in media when a perfect rational A.I is created it usually immediately concludes humanity must die. i.e The Matrix, Ultron, Skynet etc.
49Flyer@reddit
Simple yet profound.
Dependent-Edge-5713@reddit
So I never thought I'd be even more 2A but here we are.
Maximum-Key-1521@reddit
Not even 2a will save us now, especially given the ground we've lost on gun rights. Did you shoot in self defense and save your life and/or the lives of others? Congrats, enjoy getting robbed blind by the court system and spending the rest of your life in prison.
CrystalMenthol@reddit
As long as there is a "critical mass" of firearms (legal or otherwise) available to the people, the calculus remains at least somewhat disadvantageous to the would-be tyrant.
And one beautiful thing about this tech - the inevitable trend is scaling down. The tyrant has his fleet of drones around your house, and you can make your own, perhaps smaller fleet of drones to hang out around his house. You know, so everybody feels safe.
Unlucky-Pomegranate3@reddit
Larry Ellison can shove it up his ass. His AI can stand for Anal Intrusion.
gauntvariable@reddit
Well, easy to say, but pervasive surveillance is coming whether we like it or not, no matter where he shoves it. It's probably worth thinking about ways to set yourself up to avoid it while you still can.
wtfredditacct@reddit
*he says... while typing on the device that will likely be used to spy on him
gauntvariable@reddit
Haha, this is my decoy device, way ahead of you Larry!
wiredwoodshed@reddit
This system is already set up for Larry. It's called China. He should live there to feel safe.
MetalKingRex@reddit
Eat the rich
seobrien@reddit
An even more intriguing notion is that trained on the Constitution, human rights, and our body of laws, an AI could pretty easily replace lawyers and politicians. Not all, but most. Remove from law the emotion or the rhetoric that violates the boundaries of government, and you could have an AI legislator that immediately discerns what's allowed and what could be done.
seobrien@reddit
RemindMe! One year
2PacAn@reddit
No you cannot because almost all law is written vaguely. Any AI will just interpret law through the lens of whoever trained the AI. An adversarial system is necessary to determine proper interpretation of law.
AI also sucks at interpretation. Put a complex sentence into an AI and tell it to rewrite the sentence without changing the meaning. It will change the meaning more often than not.
ShoulderpadInsurance@reddit
AI is nothing more than predictive response.
Lawyers have been disbarred from attempting to use AI for cases only to find out the precedent it referenced was from cases that the AI entirely made up.
It is an effective tool but it does not replace human oversight, nor should it ever.
seobrien@reddit
You missed the point, that an AI can be created that is trained on specific material.
Lawyers have to be wary of general AI because the internet as a source of data can't be trusted. Train it on something specific and it's no different from an AI capable of coding correctly. It's called a code of laws for similar reasons; the code directs how the law needs to be practiced.
Unlucky-Pomegranate3@reddit
How do you remove the bias from those programming the AI? There are innumerable examples of it already favoring the politics of the tech sector.
seobrien@reddit
You're mixing people biased it from the simple question and point that I'm making, that it can be done
People could absolutely script an AI to follow the code of laws.
ShoulderpadInsurance@reddit
You are overestimating the capabilities of current AI.
Honestly, “Intelligence” is the wrong word to refer to the subject. AI does not think or reason as you or I do. It will try to generate content to mimic patterns from the data set it is trained on through try-fail cycles until it becomes accurate enough to be generally useful. It’s more likely to learn that the 5th word in a legal document is usually “the” rather than why that word is there.
49Flyer@reddit
That is an excellent way to put it.
Anen-o-me@reddit (OP)
That's not strictly correct. The brain also does predictive response.
aztracker1@reddit
You only have to look at AI hallucinations to know that's just bad on the surface. Let alone being able to account for something called cpmpassion or allow for reformation. On the flip side, it would likely badly account for truly vile/evil individuals and acts.
There are places where they are testing AI decision making on Police action for domestic violence calls. There are definitely exceptions to the suggested actions in both directions.
seobrien@reddit
The hallucinations are in general AI and because people are pushing it. The body of knowledge there is the internet, full of who knows what and no accounting for facts.
People are already scripting specific AIs that very certainly can do this kind of thing, based on limited and specific data.
Saying AI can't replace legal work is like saying Google won't let you look up the laws.
aztracker1@reddit
Current AI techniques are NOT actual intelligence. They are largely reliant on predicitve patterns with regards to language. I would emphatically not trust MY life to one.
Anen-o-me@reddit (OP)
It is intelligence.
ssaall58214@reddit
Wtf
Henchforhire@reddit
I remember one "AI" program for predicting behavior and it listed democrats in California as a threat and they didn't like that.
oluwasegunar@reddit
Same was told about the smart phones and the internet. People will give it away for instant gratification, you dont have to take away anything from them.
TipAdministrative272@reddit
Sun burned tim allen?
natermer@reddit
Using AI to monitor people is small potatoes. That is amateur hour.
The goal is to use AI to modify the people themselves. Get them to believe the right things so they don't need to be monitored at all. (they will still be monitored, just in case, though)
Classic-Soup-1078@reddit
What an interesting idea....
Oh ...oh...
I have a name for such a system, get this, I like to call it
-BIG BROTHER-
IAbsolutelyDare@reddit
I'm always perplexed by that breed of futurist libertarian who constantly demands "Moar Technology!", when it's obvious that much if not most technology has profoundly un-libertarian consequences. 🤔
jt7855@reddit
Someone needs to tell this guy that we live in a constitutional republic and not a democracy.
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
:)
Bogie_Minks@reddit
I think I saw that movie...
FriendlyhoodKomrad@reddit
There is always a counter
Yung_zu@reddit
Would anyone like to bet with me regarding the belief of something like this already existing?
the_blind_uberdriver@reddit
I think yes, kind of. They can read your rants on Reddit.
the_blind_uberdriver@reddit
If he wants to do police chases with drones I’m all for that. But I don’t want my own phone to broadcast my every conversation. If he wants to let the world see him pick his nose he should volunteer to be the first person under total surveillance.
fatgirlnspandex@reddit
Let me translate "Things are getting tight for the lower classes and I'm afraid for my wealth and safety because of my greed so let's spy on them so I can make my get away." Larry Ellison
the_blind_uberdriver@reddit
People of the world please aim all your cameras on Larry Ellison.
fredsherbert@reddit
he already pretty much owns an island of Hawaii. i think he's safe.
freelibertine@reddit
Larry Ellison can go fuck himself. What a total scumbag control freak.
Privacy rights is the first line of defense against a corrupt government.
gaylonelymillenial@reddit
They’ve gotten us to surveil ourselves for quite sometime, but now it is out of control. On the flip, private surveillance is a key to protecting & defending yourself & property. Finding the “in between” is hard. But I hope we find it soon, because we all know the surveillance state only gets worse from here.
fredsherbert@reddit
thanks for the paywalled link.
https://archive.ph/qqhCj
fredsherbert@reddit
he was Liz Holmes' big mentor IIRC. the first female tech billionaire who built a fraudulent company all about constant surveillance of your blood (aka selling people tons of pharma products, which is why all the investors didn't really care that it was obvious BS...because the point isn't to improve health so much as to sell a bunch of crap)
fredsherbert@reddit
this has been an obvious inevitability for a long time IMO. they will use the same language as the covid hysterics. think of all the lives saved from constant surveillance and anomaly detection
CatatonicMan@reddit
As always with things like this, the question to ask is, "Would you like to live under a regime of absolute authority if it was run by your worst enemy?"
The people in favor of these authoritarian "utopias" always assume that they'll be the ones in charge. That they'll be the ones dictating morality. That they'll be the exception to the rule of law. They never consider the possibility that an absolute bastard will end up at the helm and beat the shit out of them with their own iron fist.
49Flyer@reddit
ZafotheViking@reddit
Where is our philosopher king?
Anen-o-me@reddit (OP)
We don't want one.
alienvalentine@reddit
Yeah, that's gonna be a no from me dog.
aztracker1@reddit
I haven't read the article, I don't have time right now.. but this sounds like the verge of a dystopian hell-hole. Especially in a reality that some things that are treated as crimes in some places shouldn't even be crimes.
SeaweedLoud8258@reddit
98% or so already behave well and the remaining percent is on the FBI watch list that they never seem to catch
BitsyVirtualArt@reddit
I'm well behaved and on many watch lists, lol.
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