I was at this air show. Was a crazy thing to see live. The pilot stuck with it so long to try and keep it from hitting houses. It eventually did, but no one was home. I was a little kid, but I wrote him a letter and he wrote back. Could have been a lot worse.
Those airframes are put through A LOT. Granted they are inspected regularly and have vigorous maintenance cycles. But shit like this is bound to happen.
Yes, but it was unexpected. It's like the difference between a punch in a boxing match vs a sucker punch, you just don't expect and you are not prepared physically to get hit.
This is not what I had in mind. I meant that if this event happens to 100 average guys and to 100 military pilots, I guess more military pilots would recover quickly enough to have time to do something than the average guys
I'd say if you are captain of a 100+ million dollar plane, you try your best to recover the airplane. There was no way for the pilot to see that the wing chipped off. Therefore he probably tried to stabilize the plane and ejected as he was sure there was no way to recover.
On 14 September 1997 an Air Force F-117A Nighthawk crashed while performing a fly-by demonstration for an airshow at Martin State Airport, 12 miles northeast of Baltimore. The pilot, Maj. Bryan Knight, safely ejected. He suffered minor injuries. Four people on the ground were injured and 10 families displaced by the crash, which caused extensive fire damage to several homes and vehicles. There were no fatalities or serious injuries. The aircraft had just completed its third pass of an air show flyover at Martin State Airport near Baltimore. The pilot was initiating his climb out for departure when he felt the aircraft shudder and the left wing broke off. The accident investigation report concluded that the cause of the accident was structural failure of a support assembly, known as the Brooklyn Bridge, in the left wing due to four missing fasteners of the 39 in the assembly. The Brooklyn Bridge assembly was apparently improperly reinstalled during a scheduled periodic inspection in Jan. 1996. The entire fleet of 53 F-117 Nighthawks was inspected during a command-directed precautionary stand down and none were found to have the same defect.
That F-117 was on Static at KSYR that day. I watcher it head out for KBWI for the demo. I remember going over its flight out of KSRY for any aberrations. Couldn’t see anything.
As for the delay prior to ejecting, it seems likely as a result of the high-G immediately following the wing (partial) loss, causing disorientation or temporary loss of consciousness.
Is that verified? I thought he was trying to aim it to an open area.
Damn, that's some serious engineering. Even with an important part improperly installed, the plane still lasted 20 months, and I presume there were some flights in those months?
In my opinion, even for aircraft that's actually a little troubling. 35 out of 39 fasteners is 90% of the correct number of fasteners. Without any information on where they were and what the stress flow looks like, a reasonable estimation is that the stress on the remaining fasteners is about 10% more than design load... Which makes it troubling that the assembly failed in an air show maneuver that wasn't super high G. Even for aircraft, there should be substantially more margin than that.
Of course, missing fasteners is probably a reasonable indication that the other fasteners aren't working properly.
They were all missing from the same side/bracket. According to the diagram, there were six fasteners on that side, so only 2 of the 6 were installed. I can't do math, but I think it's fair to say those two remaining fasteners had much more than 10% additional stress on them.
I haven't verified the Aviation Week references from this random website, but at least somebody who claimed to be involved with maintenance also claimed that the fasteners were missing for about 1.75 years before the failure. That makes more sense. Even a relatively small increase in peak stress can cause much more rapid deterioration with cyclic loading. Also according to this website, that part of the wing was known to be subject to flutter, which is why stiffeners were installed. When they examined the accident aircraft, most of the fasteners were broken, which would allow substantially more flutter.
Basically it looks like a progressive fatigue failure in a known high-cyclic-load portion of the assembly...Which should have been caught by a required inspection that was not done. Overall, if we accept the additional information from this random website which may or may not be true, this seems to be a compounded failure of maintenance and inspection. That is of course different from something failing on the first flight after missing a couple fasteners, which would generally be concerning.
Planes are absurdly engineered for redundancy. Even the infamous Alaskan Boeing plane went through 154 flights/pressurization cycles on the door plug before it failed.
All airplanes use the wings ”for controlling”. The F-117 cannot fly without the FBW microprocessors compensating for the inherent instability of the F-117 aerodynamics. If you’re suggesting the aerodynamics between the F-15 and -117 are very different, thats because one is not a fighter and prioritized stealth over speed and maneuverability.
The original Eagle (which was the one involved in the wing-tear-off incident) did not have FBW. That can be found only on advanced variants (SA/QA/EX).
Based on what was written about it in Russia, the aircraft's hydraulic flap control cylinder was not bolted to the required number of bolts during scheduled maintenance. It was banal that the technicians refused to pay for their working hours. The remaining bolts could not withstand the load, uncontrollable flap vibrations began and the wing plane was destroyed.
As a result, as usual, "the privatization of profits and the nationalization of consequences."
One pilot? I see the problem… there are two rudders which require two right rudder pedals. So, there should have been two pilots, one for each right rudder pedal!
The affects were so ridiculous, I thought it was a model plane cause there was no way the physics looked reasonable for a real aircraft. I suppose that's what happens when you make an airplane that looks like a Cyber Truck.
I'd be joking about it anyway. Yank military casualties are hilarious. I love to see members of the most evil and genocidal regime that's committed the most and the worst war crimes in history after the last half of the second world war die for nothing like they deserve.
Note; the U.S. military, not u.s. citizens in general.
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This is quite possibly both the douchiest and most idiotically thoughtless comment I have ever seen on Reddit. Well done, that takes some serious effort.
It did a kick-ass job in the Gulf War. The stealth did work, until it didn't.
But it wasn't retired until 2008, 9 years after the shootdown. And the shootdown occurred 2 years after the F-22's first flight. Retiring it made sense at that point.
True since then F117 was one of few aircrafts that could drop and designate laser guided ammunition.
But it couldn't be considered a solid qualifier when a 3rd world isolated army (as strong and prepared as Iraq's anti aircraft capability was at the time) got totally outclassed by a 42-country coalition aerial might.
Any ideas if the software auto ejected him after detecting it wasn't flying and nobody was driving? I know they have tested a system like that out before but not sure if it's been implemented? Scary!
Chomp3y@reddit
The wing fell off
I'd just like to note that it isn't normal for the wing to fall off. Most wings don't fall off.
ItsOtisTime@reddit
Perhaps it was made of paper -- or paper derivatives like cardboard?
pistolplc@reddit
String? Cellotape?
welguisz@reddit
Unless you are in Russia….
BrtFrkwr@reddit
And even then if there are no available windows.
Potential_Wish4943@reddit
Structure of the left wing failed, someone is getting fired for not inspecting the spar closely enough. Or he or someone else Over-G'd the jet.
4tenpro@reddit
I was at this air show. Was a crazy thing to see live. The pilot stuck with it so long to try and keep it from hitting houses. It eventually did, but no one was home. I was a little kid, but I wrote him a letter and he wrote back. Could have been a lot worse.
tankdood1@reddit
What did he say?
4tenpro@reddit
Had to dig up the letter. Handwriting copied as all caps,
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE LETTER. IT REALLY LOOKED GREAT WITH THE FIT’S IN THE CORNERS. ITS A GREAT LOORING AIRPLAI ISNT IT?
IM SORRY THAT I SCARED YOU AND YOUR MOTHER AT THE AIRSHOW. WE’RE ALL VERY LUCKY THAT IT TURNED OUT SO WELL.
TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, NO I WAS NOT IN THE GULE WAR. DURING THE WAR I WAS STATIONED IN WICHITA FALLS TEXAS TEACHING YOUNG PILOTS HOW TO FLY JETS.
I HOPE YOU GET THAT AIRPLANE RIDE, THERE ISN’T ANYTHING LIKE BEING NEAR THE CLOUDS WATCHING
THE WORLD PASS BELOW.
GOOD LUCK IN EVERYTHING YOU DO. YOU’RE FRIEND, Buyan Knight
HyFinated@reddit
Rapid unscheduled disassembly.
Those airframes are put through A LOT. Granted they are inspected regularly and have vigorous maintenance cycles. But shit like this is bound to happen.
HortenWho229@reddit
The airframe was fine stop talking shit. The cause was missing fasteners
Ataneruo@reddit
In this case it happened because of the inspection.
There is something so frustrating about disasters that occur because of the thing designed to present them from occurring :(
Crazy__Donkey@reddit (OP)
A follow up question - why did it take the pilot long time to eject?
Misophonic4000@reddit
Pilot got knocked unconscious or semi-unconscious by the G forces involved in the breakup, was lucky to recover just in time...
antaulux@reddit
I guess it is not just luck, those military pilots follow intense training to be able to cope with high G-forces
Ramdak@reddit
Yes, but it was unexpected. It's like the difference between a punch in a boxing match vs a sucker punch, you just don't expect and you are not prepared physically to get hit.
antaulux@reddit
This is not what I had in mind. I meant that if this event happens to 100 average guys and to 100 military pilots, I guess more military pilots would recover quickly enough to have time to do something than the average guys
forgottensudo@reddit
Not sure why the downvotes as this is the answer both above and in the report?
SeeMarkFly@reddit
Russian troll farm.
Or the AI bot is an ass.
SeeMarkFly@reddit
Does anyone else notice an immediate downvote when "Russian Troll Farm" is mentioned?
tankdood1@reddit
I don’t but I never say Russian troll farm so idk (it’s probably true though)
anomalkingdom@reddit
I would think that's a factor yes. Look at that first retardation.
broadarrow39@reddit
I went and made a cup of tea while I was waiting for him/her to bang out.
discombobulated38x@reddit
The aircraft decelerated to basically zero forward velocity in about half a second, he's lucky he didn't break his neck.
I'd bet it took him a while to come to after that.
FighterJock412@reddit
Yeah if you look, it decelerated so hard it pulled the landing gear out. That's insane.
Background_Nature_47@reddit
When you're flying over suburbs, maybe try not to hit people, no?
Potential_Arm3704@reddit
I'd say if you are captain of a 100+ million dollar plane, you try your best to recover the airplane. There was no way for the pilot to see that the wing chipped off. Therefore he probably tried to stabilize the plane and ejected as he was sure there was no way to recover.
Prod_Red@reddit
On 14 September 1997 an Air Force F-117A Nighthawk crashed while performing a fly-by demonstration for an airshow at Martin State Airport, 12 miles northeast of Baltimore. The pilot, Maj. Bryan Knight, safely ejected. He suffered minor injuries. Four people on the ground were injured and 10 families displaced by the crash, which caused extensive fire damage to several homes and vehicles. There were no fatalities or serious injuries. The aircraft had just completed its third pass of an air show flyover at Martin State Airport near Baltimore. The pilot was initiating his climb out for departure when he felt the aircraft shudder and the left wing broke off. The accident investigation report concluded that the cause of the accident was structural failure of a support assembly, known as the Brooklyn Bridge, in the left wing due to four missing fasteners of the 39 in the assembly. The Brooklyn Bridge assembly was apparently improperly reinstalled during a scheduled periodic inspection in Jan. 1996. The entire fleet of 53 F-117 Nighthawks was inspected during a command-directed precautionary stand down and none were found to have the same defect.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CatastrophicFailure/comments/167sh17/f117a_nighthawk_suffers_midair_disintegration/
Mo_Zen@reddit
That F-117 was on Static at KSYR that day. I watcher it head out for KBWI for the demo. I remember going over its flight out of KSRY for any aberrations. Couldn’t see anything.
themp731@reddit
More info on the assembly in question Aviation Mechanics Bulletin
dedgecko@reddit
Goddamn…
Traceability… so important, and yet so many people just don’t give a fuck about it.
Frog_Prophet@reddit
Is that verified? I thought he was trying to aim it to an open area.
BlindProphet_413@reddit
Damn, that's some serious engineering. Even with an important part improperly installed, the plane still lasted 20 months, and I presume there were some flights in those months?
Coomb@reddit
In my opinion, even for aircraft that's actually a little troubling. 35 out of 39 fasteners is 90% of the correct number of fasteners. Without any information on where they were and what the stress flow looks like, a reasonable estimation is that the stress on the remaining fasteners is about 10% more than design load... Which makes it troubling that the assembly failed in an air show maneuver that wasn't super high G. Even for aircraft, there should be substantially more margin than that.
Of course, missing fasteners is probably a reasonable indication that the other fasteners aren't working properly.
InspectorNoName@reddit
They were all missing from the same side/bracket. According to the diagram, there were six fasteners on that side, so only 2 of the 6 were installed. I can't do math, but I think it's fair to say those two remaining fasteners had much more than 10% additional stress on them.
Coomb@reddit
Maybe, maybe not.
I haven't verified the Aviation Week references from this random website, but at least somebody who claimed to be involved with maintenance also claimed that the fasteners were missing for about 1.75 years before the failure. That makes more sense. Even a relatively small increase in peak stress can cause much more rapid deterioration with cyclic loading. Also according to this website, that part of the wing was known to be subject to flutter, which is why stiffeners were installed. When they examined the accident aircraft, most of the fasteners were broken, which would allow substantially more flutter.
Basically it looks like a progressive fatigue failure in a known high-cyclic-load portion of the assembly...Which should have been caught by a required inspection that was not done. Overall, if we accept the additional information from this random website which may or may not be true, this seems to be a compounded failure of maintenance and inspection. That is of course different from something failing on the first flight after missing a couple fasteners, which would generally be concerning.
http://www.f-117a.com/793.html
InspectorNoName@reddit
Interesting, thanks for the additional info
CallOfCorgithulhu@reddit
Planes are absurdly engineered for redundancy. Even the infamous Alaskan Boeing plane went through 154 flights/pressurization cycles on the door plug before it failed.
AardQuenIgni@reddit
I thought you were talking about the Boeing 727 from Alaska airlines until I realized you mean the Boeing 737.
Substantial-Good1174@reddit
That was an MD-83. McDonnell Douglas, not Boeing.
i_love_boobiez@reddit
At the very least they would have rehearsed this demonstration
zerbey@reddit
Pilot is extremely fortunate that the plane settled upright prior to impact, otherwise he may have been killed during the ejection sequence.
Liamnacuac@reddit
Wouldn't the computer stabilizer systems have done that?
mafaso@reddit
Yes, but when half your flight surfaces have been ripped off no computer can compensate for that.
AssetBurned@reddit
Hmmm F-15 didn’t even had a flight computer to compensate ;-)
Ill_Adhesiveness_976@reddit
All airplanes use the wings ”for controlling”. The F-117 cannot fly without the FBW microprocessors compensating for the inherent instability of the F-117 aerodynamics. If you’re suggesting the aerodynamics between the F-15 and -117 are very different, thats because one is not a fighter and prioritized stealth over speed and maneuverability.
AntiGravityBacon@reddit
F-15 is also fly by wire. Definitely flight computers in there
kostko@reddit
Pre new batch all Eagles were cable driven. Cables with hydraulic boosters :)
LegSpinner@reddit
The original Eagle (which was the one involved in the wing-tear-off incident) did not have FBW. That can be found only on advanced variants (SA/QA/EX).
veritoast@reddit
This was my thought too…
zerbey@reddit
I have no idea.
TinyMan07@reddit
He was also desperately trying to put the plane in the water. I was at this air show, and the plane crashed a few houses down from one of my friends.
Upper_Rent_176@reddit
Rushing out with a 117 bit screwdriver set
KilllerWhale@reddit
Not a good omen considering the state of the actual Brooklyn Bridge back in 1997
Crazy__Donkey@reddit (OP)
thanks!
Striking_Reality5628@reddit
Based on what was written about it in Russia, the aircraft's hydraulic flap control cylinder was not bolted to the required number of bolts during scheduled maintenance. It was banal that the technicians refused to pay for their working hours. The remaining bolts could not withstand the load, uncontrollable flap vibrations began and the wing plane was destroyed.
As a result, as usual, "the privatization of profits and the nationalization of consequences."
SpacisDotCom@reddit
One pilot? I see the problem… there are two rudders which require two right rudder pedals. So, there should have been two pilots, one for each right rudder pedal!
-burnr-@reddit
Your r/shittyaskflying is bleeding thru.
SpacisDotCom@reddit
Don’t know what that is
Crazy__Donkey@reddit (OP)
what?!?!
discombobulated38x@reddit
The speed with which that aircraft stops flying is ridiculous.
Just, instant full body airbrake.
Shinobus_Smile@reddit
The affects were so ridiculous, I thought it was a model plane cause there was no way the physics looked reasonable for a real aircraft. I suppose that's what happens when you make an airplane that looks like a Cyber Truck.
itchygentleman@reddit
the design rides that line between "being able to fly / not being able to fly" very carefully
FighterJock412@reddit
It decelerated so hard it pulled the landing gear out. Crazy!
colin8651@reddit
If I recall, the front landing gear was off a private jet style aircraft to make it fit.
Loud_Spell224@reddit
F-16 landing gear
Cool-Contribution292@reddit
A-10 landing gear
discombobulated38x@reddit
Yeah that is mad
intalgambra@reddit
Pilot ejected safely, so you can joke about it.
laughing in Serbian
DAREALPGF@reddit
I'd be joking about it anyway. Yank military casualties are hilarious. I love to see members of the most evil and genocidal regime that's committed the most and the worst war crimes in history after the last half of the second world war die for nothing like they deserve.
Note; the U.S. military, not u.s. citizens in general.
Silver996C2@reddit
Russian troll says what?🖕
DAREALPGF@reddit
Yank bootlicker says what? 🤏
Silver996C2@reddit
Take a drone to the head Russkie.
DAREALPGF@reddit
Take another plane through your workplace yank.
I am not russian, nor do i care about russia.
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Imbecilliac@reddit
This is quite possibly both the douchiest and most idiotically thoughtless comment I have ever seen on Reddit. Well done, that takes some serious effort.
DAREALPGF@reddit
Actually yeah, you're right, sorry.
Wooh! Hell yeah! Drone strike all them brown kids in the middle east! More bombs for hospitals! Murica! 🦅🦅
Died_Of_Dysentery1@reddit
🤡🤡
DAREALPGF@reddit
🐷🐷
CGPsaint@reddit
You actually took the time to rub both of your brain cells together to type that comment?
DAREALPGF@reddit
I dislike people celebrating war criminals.
horrible_noob@reddit
Obviously, the pattern was full.
equatorbit@reddit
That’s not typical. I’d like to make that clear.
Corporal_Tax@reddit
Wing came off
MetaCalm@reddit
Imho F117 futuristic design was failed by its commercial jet liner like cruising speed assuming stealth was an unbreakable technology.
The idea folded like a piece of paper once Yugoslavia shot down one in 1999 and it was retired faster than a shooting star.
notcaffeinefree@reddit
It did a kick-ass job in the Gulf War. The stealth did work, until it didn't.
But it wasn't retired until 2008, 9 years after the shootdown. And the shootdown occurred 2 years after the F-22's first flight. Retiring it made sense at that point.
MetaCalm@reddit
True since then F117 was one of few aircrafts that could drop and designate laser guided ammunition.
But it couldn't be considered a solid qualifier when a 3rd world isolated army (as strong and prepared as Iraq's anti aircraft capability was at the time) got totally outclassed by a 42-country coalition aerial might.
meyou2222@reddit
Plus a substandard docking collar led to the death of Steven Seagal.
MetaCalm@reddit
Lol 😂.
Shortbus_Playboy@reddit
Too soon.
NotThatPhilCollins@reddit
So not all bad then
Professional-West924@reddit
On the spot.
SapientisOmniscient@reddit
Serbs again, as over Budjanovci in 1999. Hahahaha
jithization@reddit
r/PraiseTheCameraMan
i would be terrified given how close some views were but cameraman didn't flinch
YachtingChristopher@reddit
The wing fell off.
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Imbecilliac@reddit
I’m lost. What is a “Low Effort” post?
flightwatcher45@reddit
Any ideas if the software auto ejected him after detecting it wasn't flying and nobody was driving? I know they have tested a system like that out before but not sure if it's been implemented? Scary!
Ramdak@reddit
It would've texted him early. Most likely he faded out and ejected as soon as he got awareness of the situation again.
peterdeg@reddit
No expert but it looks like the wing fell off. Captain Obvious, out.
The-TDawg@reddit
That’s not very typical, I’d like to make that point
Freddy_T_Squared@reddit
Are you thinking of the other ones? The ones where the wing doesn't fall off?
ExpensiveBookkeeper3@reddit
You will make a fine captain one day 🫡
joesnopes@reddit
Possibly made of cardboard?
sharkov2003@reddit
No cardboard derivatives.
Hwidditor@reddit
But it fell outside the environment. So the environment is safe.
LurkerWithAnAccount@reddit
At least he had the wherewithal to put the landing gear down.
/s
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anomalkingdom@reddit
That initial retardation ... my lord.
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