Can a parent renounce your citizenship without you knowing?

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Earl_your_friend@reddit

Your aunt is wrong. You sound like the type of person who might like to buy a bridge, I can sell you one cheap.

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Earl_your_friend@reddit

Yes, you asked if your aunt was right. I answered that she was wrong. The bridge I'm selling goes to Brooklyn. It's only $1000 but only if you buy today.

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Earl_your_friend@reddit

You see zero humor in my reply? I'm offering to sell you the Brooklyn Bridge, which is a classic joke.

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SeanBourne@reddit

So a few things:

Once you become an adult (18 in the US), your parent cannot renounce for you, only you can do that - ergo you are a citizen
Unlike Canada/UK/Australia (here a passport is NOT proof of citizenship), in the US, a passport is both a travel document and in its own right proof of citizenship - so holding the passport is another sure indicator you are a citizen… though because US govt. departments don’t always talk to each other, you may also want to ensure you have your birth certificate/certificate of citizenship/certificate of naturalization.
The IRS is well aware that a lot of Americans don’t realize they are supposed to file taxes every year, so this can be resolved quite easily. There’s a particular ‘catch-up filing’ to streamline the process of getting you caught up. You can either get an accountant (I’d recommend as it‘s effectively ‘insurance’ for your filing) or if your taxes are very simple, you could call the IRS, explain that you weren’t aware/want to bring everything up to snuff, etc., and they’ll indicate what they are looking for.
Given that you are in Canada (higher tax rates than the US), you won’t actually owe anything. In addition to the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion (aka FEIE, where the first \~$125K USD of earnings abroad is not liable for any tax), there‘s Foreign Tax Credits (aka FTCs), where tax paid to a country with whom the US has a tax treaty is ‘counted’ as if the Tax is paid to the US. If you live in a higher tax country, you can even accumulate surplus FTCs. (E.g. I pay more tax in Australia than I would have in the US, and have extra FTCs.). These can then be later ‘carried forward’ to reduce your US taxes if you go back and earn there. (They do expire 10 years after originally earned I think.)
Last, you do need to disclose your foreign bank accounts to the US. There’s FBAR and FATCA - you’ll have to file one, and quite possibly both. Definitely check with an accountant who knows on this and get them to file on your behalf. While you won’t owe anything, you do need to file these.

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eruditionfish@reddit

These can then be later ‘carried forward’ to reduce your US taxes if you go back and earn there.

This is not quite right. The Foreign Tax Credit can only be used against US taxes on foreign income. That goes for carryover credits as well. So the FTC carryover rules mostly matter for people who move from a high tax foreign country to a low-tax one.

For example a US expat who first lives in Germany, accruing excess Foreign Tax Credit, then moves to Dubai.

For expats who return to the US, the carryover FTC may be completely irrelevant unless you have foreign investments.

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gadgetvirtuoso@reddit

No she can’t do that. You have to be 18 to renounce your citizenship. Just remember to fill your US taxes on all your Canadian income. Doesn’t matter if you’ve never lived in the US. Always enter/exit the US on your passport as well: it’s the law.

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Dire-Dog@reddit (OP)

Ahh ok apparently she did it when I turned 18 but I never signed any forms or did any interviews.

I have my US passport but I never use it cause Nexus lists my citizenship as US. I'm not sure what my parents thought they were doing but apparently I'm still a citizen.

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katmndoo@reddit

Do be aware that flying in to the U.S. from anywhere other than Canada you still need your US passport.

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Dire-Dog@reddit (OP)

It’s never been an issue for me cause I’ve always used my Canadian one

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SereneRandomness@reddit

Sure, that makes sense.

Now that you have your US passport, according to US law you have to use your US passport to enter and leave the United States.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/Relinquishing-US-Nationality/Dual-Nationality.html

"U.S. nationals, including U.S. dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. U.S. dual nationals may also be required by the country of their foreign nationality to use that country’s passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport to travel to or from a country other than the United States is not inconsistent with U.S. law."

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Dire-Dog@reddit (OP)

Interesting. I have my US passport when I travel now but I’ve never needed it. They just look at my Nexus card and I’m on my way

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SiscoSquared@reddit

Technically you can travel by land border with a only the nexus card but it's not recommended. I've had nexus lines randomly pull me aside to look at my US passport, most of the time they don't even ask to see anything since they scan biometrics. But you should still have it just in case.

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Dire-Dog@reddit (OP)

Oh yeah I always have it with me just in case

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ContemporaryAmerican@reddit

In theory, all US citizens must file US taxes anywhere in the world. In practice, many Americans abroad are unaware of US tax obligations or ignore them. Also, if you don't have many connections to the US (bank accounts, property, US retirement benefits) then there's no consequence in practice for not filing.

The US is the only developed country to have universal citizenship based taxation. Do you go to a restaurant and receive 2 bills for the same meal? No!

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redrosebeetle@reddit

apparently she did it when I turned 18

I'm not sure what she thinks she did when you turned 18, but adults cannot make unilateral decisions on the behalf of other adults, unless they adult in question has voluntarily given them that power or the courts have given them that power.

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Rich-Way-5043@reddit

It literally says on the state-department website it’s not possible for a minor with few exceptions which can be reversed. It costs $2,350 and takes years to do.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/us-citizenship/Relinquishing-US-Nationality-Abroad.html

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Dire-Dog@reddit (OP)

Even if they supposedly did it when I turned 18?

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Rich-Way-5043@reddit

Basically it’s almost impossible for a dual US-CAD citizen to renounce US citizenship before 18 and after you’d have to do it yourself. You would have needed to pay the 2,350 and have multiple meetings at the embassy where they counsel you on the implications of your decision. Your Mom would NOT be allowed in these meetings and she could NOT do this on your behalf at any time in your life.

I think they would probably stall on the renouncement until you turned 21 too. Tell you to come back when you’re older, as you would have no good reason for renouncing.

Your Aunt told you some nonsense which she may or may not have gotten from your Mom years ago.

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geoguy78@reddit

At 18 you're a legal adult in the US, your parents literally cannot do anything for you legal-wise the second you turn 18. Absolutely impossible for them to renounce your citizenship once you're a legal adult. Your aunt is full of crap.

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Dire-Dog@reddit (OP)

Ok thanks

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syaz136@reddit

YOU can do it when you're 18, not someone else.

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wndrgrl555@reddit

After you turn 18, you have to pay the fee AND personally appear at the embassy in Ottawa to affirm you're renouncing.

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texas_asic@reddit

Yes, you are responsible for filing taxes every year. Unless you're making over $130K USD, you won't owe taxes, between the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion (or foreign tax credit), and the standard deduction.

You also were supposed to register for the draft, and while it's technically a felony not to, it probably won't make any difference to you, especially if you were unaware of this obligation: https://www.sss.gov/register/men-26-and-older/

Finally, you should read the following. There are reporting requirements if you have more than $50K USD in foreign accounts. There are also nasty provisions penalizing investing in the equivalent of foreign mutual funds or ETFs. If you have more than $25K (combined total) in investments or retirement accounts, then professional help would be advisable to get squared away on reporting and compliance. These are discussed as FATCA, FBAR, and PFIC:

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/US_tax_pitfalls_for_a_US_person_living_abroad

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Taxation_as_a_US_person_living_abroad

You can read up about "accidental americans" -- people who thought they were not US citizens

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Dire-Dog@reddit (OP)

You also were supposed to register for the draft, and while it's technically a felony not to,

Yeah I think that's why my mom wanted to get rid of my US citizenship. Apparently she didn't want me to get drafted.

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geoguy78@reddit

We haven't had a draft since the 1970s

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Dire-Dog@reddit (OP)

I know but my parents weren’t the smartest. They thought I’d be drafted into WW3 or something

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texas_asic@reddit

Yeah, that'd be around the time of the Afghanistan and Iraq wars. The US military really doesn't want to go back to a draft, because they'd much prefer to remain an all-volunteer professional force, especially given the prevalence of technology. But the draft registration system remains, "just in case."

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BWC_4_Wife@reddit

It’s 10K USD in a foreign account - cumulative. So if the sum of you accounts (non US) total more than 10K at any point in the year you have to report the accounts. FBAR penalties for non filing can reach 50% of account value. PFICS are also punitively taxed. To relinquish citizenship it’s $2600, two visits to the US Embassy, and 6 years of tax filings Www.aitaxadvisers.com

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texas_asic@reddit

Thank you for the correction, I've edited my comment accordingly. Looks like it's $10K for FBAR, and $50K for FATCA

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gadgetvirtuoso@reddit

Not possible. You have to do it and you have to pay the money to do it.

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Dire-Dog@reddit (OP)

Ok thanks

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gadgetvirtuoso@reddit

As a US citizen you are liable to file regardless of your residency or anything. Unless you make over $125k US you probably don’t owe anything. You need to find yourself an accountant to help you get caught up.

I use to this guy for my taxes. He used to living in Ecuador and handles a lot of expat taxes.

https://www.livingabroadtaxes.com

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DelilahBT@reddit

Nope, the US likes to keep you in the fold bc taxes. I think the US and Estonia are the only countries that require annual tax returns for citizens regardless of residency.

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SeanBourne@reddit

Estonia or Eritrea?

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DelilahBT@reddit

I may have gotten the country wrong… but the intent was to illustrate the global anomaly that is US tax policy.

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Syresiv@reddit

US? No.

If you were born in the US or to at least one citizen parent, you're a citizen from birth regardless of what either of them wants. The only way to change that is to renounce your citizenship, and that's a major process that your mom can't do for you.

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Hellolaoshi@reddit

So, my friend who was born in Canada to an American mother is Canadian, but can claim US citizenship.

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DelilahBT@reddit

There is a process that birth parents have to go through to register a birth abroad. I did it for my two kids who were born in Canada. So that might be what your friend means by “claim”.

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Syresiv@reddit

But if they fail to do so, that doesn't make the kid ineligible. They could claim it themselves when they're older, if they can prove at least one parent was a citizen.

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DelilahBT@reddit

That’s correct.

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gadgetvirtuoso@reddit

There’s nothing to “claim”. It’s automatic even if they’re not aware of it.

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LoyalteeMeOblige@reddit

Wait, let’s say my mom is American and I was born in Argentina, I’m American too even if a never submitted a paper to claim the nationality nor I want to? Is that what you are saying?

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dutchtyphoid@reddit

Yes, U.S. citizenship is automatic to children born to U.S. citizens abroad - with limited exceptions.

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foreigner669@reddit

sounds a lot like HIV.

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LoyalteeMeOblige@reddit

That is… odd. I never saw other countries doing so without the parents or the descendant asking for it.

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Syresiv@reddit

It's automatic, but that doesn't mean they automatically know. So obviously you'd have to prove it.

But, once you request it and provide birth certificates and stuff, they'll say "as far as we're concerned, you've always been a US citizen."

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LoyalteeMeOblige@reddit

And renouncing takes both money and time. Yes, that is the main issue here.

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gadgetvirtuoso@reddit

Most likely yes. There are some exceptions but most of the time it’s passed on and is automatic.

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Syresiv@reddit

If by American mother, you mean a mother with American citizenship, then yes. Your friend is a US citizen in that case, and can get a social security card and passport as soon as they prove it.

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Hausmannlife_Schweiz@reddit

Possibly. There are some rules about how ling the parent lived in the US and some other things. But it is possible.

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Rich-Way-5043@reddit

You have to spend money to renounce and take the time to do it properly. She probably just destroyed some documents and told you that, to keep you north of the border. Lots of people think if you destroy a passport or citizenship card then it is all lost.🤷‍♂️

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Dire-Dog@reddit (OP)

The thing is I only heard about this today and I had all my US citizenship documents with me (birth certificate, social insurance number) and I just got a US passport this year. No idea what she meant by "making me only Canadian"

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lucylemon@reddit

Maybe she meant that your mother didn’t register your birth in the U.S.

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Dire-Dog@reddit (OP)

No I was born in the US

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lucylemon@reddit

Then your aunt is probably mistaken.

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redrosebeetle@reddit

I'm getting the sense that maybe your mother isn't the most reliable narrator.

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Dire-Dog@reddit (OP)

She wasn't. Neither is my aunt.

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Monarc73@reddit

Your mom may have been shooting her mouth off, and aunty took her at her word. I mean, why wouldn't she?

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fuhrmanator@reddit

Sorry your mom passed. Some expat parents whose kids are accidental Americans might want to relinquish kids' US citizenship, since taxes are more complicated (even before they're 18). But it seems they can't do that. Boris Johnson's a famous case where the IRS basically put the smackdown on him for capital gains when he sold his house in London.

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lionhydrathedeparted@reddit

You’re a U.S. citizen.

Don’t give it up. If you’re Canadian too it’s really not an issue living in Canada.

It’s much more of an issue if you want to live in Europe, or if you earn a ton of money.

Another passport gives you options and freedom.

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Dire-Dog@reddit (OP)

Oh yeah I don't intend to give it up. I'm thinking of going back to the US to work eventually because I can make a lot more than in Canada.

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ElDjee@reddit

Only a citizen can renounce their citizenship. Not their parents, not their partner, not their dog. Only the citizen.

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KrisFinlayson@reddit

It sounds like you're still a U.S. citizen if you were able to get a passport and vote, but it's worth checking with a lawyer if you're unsure about your status.

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Dire-Dog@reddit (OP)

Yeah like, I guess I wouldn't have been able to get a passport or anything if I wasn't one.

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MonroeKapital@reddit

"It’s not possible for your parent to renounce your citizenship on your behalf—especially without your knowledge."

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HVP2019@reddit

Not in your case.