Democracy FTW /s
Posted by ENVYisEVIL@reddit | Libertarian | View on Reddit | 76 comments
Posted by ENVYisEVIL@reddit | Libertarian | View on Reddit | 76 comments
pharmdad711@reddit
My political philosophy is
DO WE REALLY WANT MORE DMV IN OUR LIVES?
MM800@reddit
Biggest power grab ever.
Prior to "motor voter" those not interested in politics, or political processes, didn't bother to register to vote.
If you don't know the candidates or study the issues, I honestly don't want you entering a voting booth.
The media indoctrinates the ignorant masses with: "republicans are mean, democrats will give you free stuff, and all other political parties are crackpots and a threat to democracy."
ixsetf@reddit
So over the course of 3 years, a state of 4.2 million people has registered 306 non-citizens to vote. So out of a population of 40,000, 1 non-citizen will be registered to vote each year. That's not great, but calling it the "biggest power grab ever" seems exaggerated.
This reads much more like typical government incompetence to me.
MM800@reddit
You either have great difficulty with reading comprehension or you just aren't very bright (or both).
Here is what you replied to - please read it carefully:
"Biggest power grab ever.
Prior to "motor voter" those not interested in politics, or political processes, didn't bother to register to vote.
If you don't know the candidates or study the issues, I honestly don't want you entering a voting booth.
The media indoctrinates the ignorant masses with: "republicans are mean, democrats will give you free stuff, and all other political parties are crackpots and a threat to democracy."
Rude_Hamster123@reddit
I think they were referring to using the DMV to register voters who would otherwise be disinterested. Now there’s a bunch of voters who barely understand the process voting based on propaganda and indoctrination. And they’re mostly voting Dem because free stuff is good.
yvonnalynn@reddit
Ha! This is so much more succinct than what I just said but mentioned it exactly. Not that I’m a republican because I’m not. I’m libertarian who sees the simplistic “dem’s free stuff” comment as funny if it weren’t so sad.
Barskor1@reddit
Do you actually think it was only hundreds and not all of them that got a licences? If that is so I have some beachfront property in Kansas to sell you for cheap nice ocean views and friendly neghbors.
Vulgarpower@reddit
"Initial analysis by the state transportation agency revealed 306 non-citizens were allowed to become registered voters. Of those, only two have cast a vote in any election since 2021"
From the article op posted in another comment.
It's really important for people (not the person I'm replying to obviously, but others that are wasting brain cells and time in this earth reading dumb ass comments like these) to understand that the biggest downfall of social media is that people that are "confidently ignorent" after reading a sentence long headline with no context have the same volume of voice as someone that actually knows what they are talking about.
This is how we get to hear dumb shit like "they are eating cats and dogs" and "she's letting aliens in jail get sex changes."
Don't waste your life reading only headlines, or you will have an incredibly jaded view on life. This world does have some shit people, but I would wager a great majority of people in America are honest people just trying to get by, who make silly mistakes, and they get fixed later.
Barskor1@reddit
We have investigated ourselves and found we did "almost" nothing wrong.
There are police reports and videos of them doing what you say is "Fake News".
Harris advocated for the sex change availability and that is all that matters.
MM800@reddit
I don't have a clue concerning what you are talking about.
My problem is completely ignorant people, who were previously so uninterested and apathetic they didn't bother to register, entering a voting booth and voting for "free stuff" or to send my money and my kids to the next foreign war.
aztracker1@reddit
Or in the case of MSNBC viewers... "You have to vote Democrat or democracy will fall and the great evil Hitler 2.0 takes over forever."
K1_0@reddit
The media and the public education system.
ENVYisEVIL@reddit (OP)
Agreed. And if someone doesn’t study history and basic economics, and has never started a business before, then I don’t want them entering a voting booth either.
Joe5205@reddit
What other rights do you want to strip from people who don't share your view?
ENVYisEVIL@reddit (OP)
The right to oppress others through voting.
Joe5205@reddit
Well sir, have fun with that. Don't agree at all
ENVYisEVIL@reddit (OP)
You don’t agree because you haven’t taken the time to understand the philosophy.
When you actually study anarcho-capitalism then you will see that it is the only way to avoid the pitfalls of democracy (aka collectivism).
As if 100 million innocent people murdered over the last 110 years wasn’t enough evidence already to support that conclusion…
_bleeding_Hemorrhoid@reddit
So, to not step on YOUR self endowed understanding of rights, the rights of other, less than your caste in the land of the free, should be oppressed? Gotcha.
ENVYisEVIL@reddit (OP)
Rights are natural regardless as to whether or not you understand what they are.
Natural rights aren’t voted into existence.
MM800@reddit
You are correct.
Students of history learn about the fatal pitfalls of imperialism, fiat currency, and socialism /communism. Add to that the absolute necessity of an armed citizenry, because all governments end up inherently abusive and corrupt.
oznerolnas@reddit
you're a joke with those conditions to vote. as rude as i could possibly be, fuck off
Arow2theKnee803@reddit
Shouldn't the title of the article also include that the voters represented less than 0.1% of Oregons population and also the problem was immediately fixed? All of this in the linked article, there's nothing nefarious going on here
aztracker1@reddit
See Florida Election 2000. Sometimes that's all you need.
flimpiddle@reddit
Also mentioned in the article but ignored to suit the premise of this post: as soon as this issue was discovered, the voter registration process was modified to prevent this from happening in the future. Not to mention the fact that only 2 of these 306 people were found to have actually voted in any election.
LoneHelldiver@reddit
No, it's not ok. "We're incompetent and will face no punishment and keep our over paid jobs" is the whole reason this subreddit exists. But we also know this wasn't incompetence, this was deliberate.
flimpiddle@reddit
I sincerely doubt that the customer service reps at the DMV who were responsible for these mistakes are vastly over paid. And with unemployment being as low as it is, they can't just fire everybody. Mistakes were made. The important thing is they were doing their due diligence, and the error was found and corrected before the election began. No where does this article comment on what disciplinary measures were or weren't taken. As for your knowledge that this was on purpose... to know a thing is not the same as just feeling it in your gut, especially when the outcome of this mistake offers no clear benefit to anyone involved. It was a serious training failure and not some grand conspiracy, at least that's the Ockam's razor take on this.
Wycked0ne@reddit
You're so close, but missing the mark. You're not on the right level.
Of course it's not the low-level employees. It's the lawmakers. They make laws like, "Automatically register people at the DMV." Then during implementation, leave in minor loopholes and 'plausibly-deniable' mistakes. Business processes that are intended to not be thorough enough. This shouldn't have been possible. AT ALL.
Automatic registration shouldn't be a thing. It should be opt in, not opt out. If voting is a right, should we automatically grant concealed weapons permits? I think so.
flimpiddle@reddit
When I moved to Oregon and went to the DMV, they asked me if I wanted to register to vote. I opted in. Does that meet your criteria for an opt in system? They didn't make me seek it out, merely provided a convenient point of contact where I could exercise two civic duties at the same time. This is not the kind of auto-click through system you're making it out to be. Plus THEY FOUND THE INCORRECTLY VERIFIED PEOPLE AND INFORMED THEM THAT THEY WOULD BEED TO PROVIDE PROOF OF ELIGIBILITY BEFORE THEY WOULD BE ISSUED A 2024 BALLOT! I'm not sure what else you're looking for.
Wycked0ne@reddit
A.) I don't know when you moved to Oregon and it doesn't matter because that's anectdotal.
B.) It literally is. Automatic registrations were happening. Automatically. AUTOMATICALLY. It doesn't matter what happened in your specific case. This was point blank proven/confessed to be automatic.
B2.) I want that shit fixed. That's what I'm looking for.
Great. That's what I expect. Now fix the loopholes.
Look, at least asking people at the DMV is convenient. I get that. But someone fucked up majorly by not verifying citizenship. As a developer, this could've been mitigated easily. The business process could've been changed for non-citizens. There could've been a flag check in a database, or really some deeper verification. Instead, there was nothing.
I'm glad they're fixing it, but you need to admit this is only coming to light because of Republican pressures. Not a chance in hell the Democrats DMV managers and state lawmakers just "decided" to audit their voters citizenship randomly.
If you'll allow me a question: do you think everyone should vote? Let me be clear, I think everyone should have the right, but not that everyone should. I think many are misinformed.
If you do think so, do you think it should be as easy to obtain a concealed carry permit, another enshrined right in the same US Constitution? Just a checkbox at the DMV?
If you think there should be qualifications for carrying a gun, why not for voting?
Thanks for your input
yvonnalynn@reddit
Agreed, it is not the entry level workers fault! Why should they be punished. That is silly.
It is the voting registration loophole implemented by Clinton called “motor voter”because democrats are good by making your life easier while taking care of you and republicans are mean, greedy jerks taking all the money from poor people. The entry level employee at the dmv in Springfield, when asked, said that they couldn’t say Why they freely gave out licenses to any the 20k Haitians who were shipped to (the 60k population city) without having to take a drivers test.
Not a hard leap in logic, folks, to guess why.
Tyler https://youtu.be/rvZTr3F_YZI?feature=shared shows that the Haitians living well knew nothing about cats being kidnapped or eaten. Normally this interviewer goes into varieties of socioeconomic areas for answers so I’m a bit surprised he didn’t here. I don’t imagine the immigrants being paid up to $5k/ month and not having to pay rent and were given cars would need to eat cats or ducks from the park.
However, IF cats and ducks are being taken, I imagine they’d be used in religious purposes which includes sacrifice & eating of cats. Since as the common Haitian saying goes, “70% of the population is Catholic, 30% are Protestant, and 100% are voodoo”. Anyway, aside from a difference in culture on religion, animal rights, and waste management, the Haitians were giving licenses who cannot drive at all & now they get to vote.
I wonder who they’d vote for! Would it be the people giving them free money & a far better life (that should go to needy US citizens and ffs our dang vets) ? Or the people saying they’d ship them back to their desperately awful and impoverished home. Thats a toughie.
SnappyDogDays@reddit
Yes they can fire everyone at the DMV. They should be fired. And they shouldn't be registering voters.
42num@reddit
pathos > logos it seems
beast_mode209@reddit
Doesn’t matter.
beast_mode209@reddit
CA is auto registering anyone with a drivers license as well.
calisoldier@reddit
Not exactly, but almost. I just renewed my license at the DMV (instead of by mail as they would prefer). The computer asked if I wanted to register, then if you click yes, it asks if you’re a citizen, and if you click yes, it takes you through the registration process. At no point does it ask for proof of citizenship. Zip, zero, nada.
_bleeding_Hemorrhoid@reddit
If you are renewing your license, at the dmv, are they not previously aware of your citizenship status? Id think that is more like a tos while paying your mortgage online than the sole last line of defense against someone thats not a citizen throwing their existence out there to vote for a turd sandwich. But you can keep sowing doubt for points, you be you.
calisoldier@reddit
I’m telling you exactly as it happened. I have no reason to make 💩up.
tingent@reddit
They didn’t say you made it up. They’re saying the question is likely there for someone to perjure themselves, not as the way the DMV actually determines their citizenship.
beast_mode209@reddit
Right.
adalsindis1@reddit
Yup happened to someone I know, hundreds only?
yvonnalynn@reddit
Anyone else receive mail in ballots for names of people who have never lived at your address? Clever huh!
StupidStoneKid@reddit
Why does a motor vehicle agency get involved in voting?
Asangkt358@reddit
Way back in 1993, Bill Clinton pushed for and got passed the "motor voter" law which requires states to offer voter registration to anyone when they get a drivers license.
StupidStoneKid@reddit
Kinda sounds like a loophole to gain more voters
jkovach89@reddit
Yeah, but that's not a problem if the people getting drivers licenses are US citizens.
Vegetable_Idea_9210@reddit
Sounds more like they are making it easier for people to vote instead of having to deal with the government bureaucracy twice. Both Republicans and Democrats use the DMV.
K1_0@reddit
I Oregon, noncitizen residents may get driver licenses, but noncitizens aren't legally eligible to vote in the U.S.
Asangkt358@reddit
Oh, getting everyone signed up on the voter registry was just step 1. Step 2 was then to put into place a liberal absentee ballot system that can't actually track a ballot once it is cast. A voter registry packed with people that don't actually vote + an absentee ballot system that can't be tracked = undetectable fraud.
VicisSubsisto@reddit
So you do know why.
StupidStoneKid@reddit
Idk I just took a wild guess 💀
goathrottleup@reddit
And that’s why any party going against the democrats doesn’t have a chance in the future.
Luminosus32@reddit
It's sad af tbh.
aimerj@reddit
Probably a bold take, but When are yall gonna get over individual voting. Voters do not elect a president, electoral college does. Until that is fixed, will of ppl will never be.
Any voting complaints or criticism should be based on electoral college, not fraudulent voting that's irrelevant to the outcome of a presidential election
ENVYisEVIL@reddit (OP)
The electoral college was created to prevent the gullible masses from voting away their freedoms in exchange for free shit.
The problem with the 51% is that most Americans aren’t smart enough, or experienced enough, to make decisions for other people’s lives; especially socialist teenagers that have never worked a job or started a business before.
Voting leads to more wars, more inflation, less freedoms, bigger DMV, less liberty, and less capitalism.
aimerj@reddit
And to respond to your first paragraph, the failure of the electoral college was proven when Trump, a celebrity billionaire, egomanical [now convicted felon] was elected.
So again, if electoral college can fail so miserably, it should just be the will of the people for better or for worse.
Also socialist teenagers didn't cause our inflation, housing problem, major division amongst eachother, giving money to Israel and Ukraine, I mean list goes on forever on what idealist teenagers HAVENT done to make our nation where it is currently. For what it's worth...
Luminosus32@reddit
I highly disagree with this. We aren't a democracy, we are a republic. Majority rule doesn't make the majority right. Imagine a room with 5 people. Whatever the room votes on happens to everyone in the room. The vote is for life or death. 3 of these people are mentally ill and want to die. The other 2 have families and want to live. Because they got outvoted, now everyone in the room has to perish.
Wozzi_Humperdink@reddit
The candidate you don't like getting elected is not proof of failure of the electoral college. Cope harder.
aimerj@reddit
I don't like any of the candidates, I think that is the point of this subreddit. Idk if you are aware, but this is not a democratic or republican sub...
Wozzi_Humperdink@reddit
I didn't indicate that I was either. I merely pointed out that your hot take was dumb.
IrwinBl@reddit
You know that this is exactly the reasoning for the fucking house of Lords in the UK right?
LoneHelldiver@reddit
Because we like the electoral college and understand why it exists. We didn't fail our government classes.
Also, the 2020 election was decided by 60,000 votes spread over the swing states. As little as 60,000 votes had to flip to Trump in the right states and he would have won so every vote does count, at least in swing states.
lntelligent@reddit
This is literally the #1 argument against the EC and you just proved it lmao. One candidate got 8 million more votes but still almost lost because 60,000 swing state votes.
Luminosus32@reddit
The electoral college is great tbh. What you want is a popular vote. Democracy is 3 wolves and 1 sheep voting on what to eat. That's why we are a republic with an electoral college.
aimerj@reddit
"At least in swing states" sooo not even majority of america?
notdelet@reddit
While bad, it's not quite hundreds of non-citizens voting.
Luminosus32@reddit
This is how they steal the election. Fucking traitors. Looking forward to seeing how people respond to government gun buyback programs and being censored on social media.
Flashy-Requirement41@reddit
I never understood these arguments about free speech on social media. We don't own our accounts. If I own and establishment, I think it is my right to kick the shit out of someone and throw them out the door, if they are doing something I do not think is great for the place.
I see nothing different with people wanting to control their own property the way they see fit.
Luminosus32@reddit
The government doesn't own these companies either. Using tax payer money to monitor speech on these platforms is a breach of the 1st amendment. Talk about election interference...
Flashy-Requirement41@reddit
Do you have legit sources for this?
Luminosus32@reddit
Reuter's article on Zuckerberg's statements
"As far as truth goes there was only pressure." The very act of "pressuring" anyone to censor speech in America goes against the constitution. Since the people "pressuring" are paid by tax dollars. The people being censored were everyday Americans.
The State Department, in an effort to “counter foreign state and non-state propaganda and disinformation efforts,” sent social media companies lists of individuals that they identified as “inauthentic” — lists that included not just foreign actors, but everyday Americans.
Meanwhile, the NSF doled out millions to fund Stanford University and the University of Washington’s “Election Integrity Partnership,” which successfully influenced social media companies into “moderating” millions of tweets flagged by CISA and the FBI. In an interview, the program’s lead researcher admitted that taxpayer money was intentionally channeled through a third party so that the government could evade First Amendment liability.
The FBI also partnered with universities to discuss research methodologies that would flag online “misinformation,” which often captured conservative views. That's completely outside the jurisdiction of the FBI. In history classes we talk about the Gestapo, the KGB, and the NKVD. Forms of secret police that suppressed their own people's speech. The FBI is becoming the same thing for the Democratic party. Pretty soon, if Dems have their way, they'll start arresting conservatives under the guise of them being "domestic terrorists".
Flashy-Requirement41@reddit
In your original comment you made it out that they actually did it. There is no proof of that. So this means you lied to get your point across. I was asking for proof that the pressure worked.
I know the story well. Zuckerburg only regretted not saying anything about the pressure. However, Zuck has been known to sensor whole countries as political murders happened over Facebook posts. Zuck has also openly used software so people can look at Facebook in China according to regulation of that country. You are so stuck on this one issue, I imagine you have not even noticed the track record these kinds of companies have to sensor people.
But as I said originally. You do not own social media. There is no right to free speech in this realm. You are full of yourself if you think there is. Example, you come to my house and say things about my wife, you may die. It's my property. This fact does not change at scale.
Barskor1@reddit
Hundreds? If you see a rat you know there are 50 more that you didn't. Say it is all of them that got a licesece and you would be at the truth.
LoneHelldiver@reddit
Silly, immigrants can't register to vote! They don't know how to get ID...
mcbeezy94@reddit
What’s the source on this article? I want to read it
ENVYisEVIL@reddit (OP)
Source
AutoModerator@reddit
Democracy is tyranny of the majority. Read Hoppes Democracy: The God That Failed, or other works by libertarians such as Rothbard, Spooner, or Hoppe to learn about why so many libertarians oppose democracy. Also check out r/EndDemocracy
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.