Tom's Hardware: "AMD's laptop OEMs decry poor support, chip supply, and communication — OEM complains the company has "left billions of US dollars lying around" due to poor execution: Reports"
Posted by Dakhil@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 171 comments
bobbie434343@reddit
You can bash Intel all you want, but they sure have invested in laptops these past years, collaborating with manufacturers, and you can easily find their products at the time of release.
Teenager_Simon@reddit
Because it's not like Intel bribed all the OEMs to use their chips for prebuilts and laptops or anything for over a decade...
Strazdas1@reddit
Its not.
Teenager_Simon@reddit
Decade headstart in laptop OEM connections doesn't mean anything? Y'all should buy more Intel stock lmao
Think-Technician8888@reddit
So they aren’t getting the bribes that Intel used to hand out and want some attention now that Intels pockets are dry.
With all these Asian OEMS being able to build their own laptop, I’m appalled at the suggestion that it’s “difficult” to get AMD support on the main lines of the products.
That being said, for absolute sure, the new process nodes and architectures are nearing an inflection point where all the focus must be on them and stabilization in implementation with multi-chiplets will further reduce the complexity.
gunfell@reddit
Dude, you are basically saying amd should take a screw the OEMs approach…. And somehow amd seems to be doing exactly that
Bold move cotton, let’s see how it plays out
Think-Technician8888@reddit
Not what I’m saying, it’s well documented how difficult the OEMs have been with putting AMD product lines in the forefront, it’s because Intel bribes the hell out of the major OEMs, they are the evil in a free market.
Nothing, nada, stopping OEM’s from building Flagship Mac level products, but the Qualcomm lie and Intels downfall putting a huge need for them to diversify products.
Every one of the last mobile processors AMD has released has been a dream product, I use Beelinks for all my customers and they perform flawlessly with graphics to power multi display and even more advanced editing. The NPU is the only thing that is the true differentiator in our next generation and AMD once again has a flagship product with OEM's failing to feel prepared coinciding with all of Microshafts mega flops in AI.
only a fool would discount the complexity and sheer innovation that AMD has brought to the masses. call me when you have one.
gunfell@reddit
Intel has not bribed oems for years. Which was not what the actual issue was anyway. The issue was threat of product withholding. Either way, it does not happen, and has not happened for years. Amd puts no money into there sales team or product development with oem, don’t make enough volume for oem, and then you get angry that oem don’t have amd. It is insanity.
Amd had two clear generations of beating intel in mobile, zen 3 and 4, and now loses to lunar lake. You could argue zen2 as a wash. Zen 5 provides little improvement in mobile, and ptl comes out in 12 months. Zen 6 won’t be out for like a year after ptl.
iDontSeedMyTorrents@reddit
Missed the best part: blame Intel!
gunfell@reddit
Amd has larger market cap, has larger profit, but we are still supposed to believe they are the underdog that is just struggling to keep the lights on. This is becoming absurdist.
Strazdas1@reddit
No. we are supposed to believe AMD has thier priorities wrong.
Relliker@reddit
I work heavily in the datacenter space. They do still bribe OEMs like Dell and Supermicro to push Intel designs over AMD equivalents at every level, from having the systems actually available to defaulting all solution architecture to Intel despite it always costing more in my pricing exercises.
gunfell@reddit
Define “bribe”. Because if that is just discount for large purchases then who cares
Relliker@reddit
Volume discounts that get steeper at the same quantity based on other items in your sales portfolio are bribes, despite your adamancy at thinking Intel still plays fair in the modern day.
I am not going to get any further into it with specific examples because it would be firmly into NDA land and I have no desire to doxx myself on Reddit of all platforms. Suffice it to say that when you start dealing with these OEMs in the tens of millions and above range it leaks through sales conversations.
steve09089@reddit
They aren’t unless they’re of a nature that can be proven to be anti competitively priced to pump and dump the market
gunfell@reddit
Yeah, that is just a bundling discount. It is only an issue if you are not allowed to purchase amd or if individual employees are receiving direct payout. Otherwise it is just preferred or bundled pricing. Amd has the ability to play the same game and does when it wants to. As does every other big player.
I don’t want you to dox urself, obvi a reddit thread is not worth that
ViniCaian@reddit
OEMs: Hey AMD, we have been trying to sell more of your chips for years, can you please provide more volume?
Internet schizos: SEE? THIS IS ANOTHER PROOF OF LE GREAT EVIL BRIBING ALL OEMS! PROOF? EVIDENCE? NO, NONE, NOT IN MORE THAN A DECADE, WHO NEEDS THAT ANYWAY!
Take your fucking meds old man.
WorldlinessNo5192@reddit
What are they going to do, buy even more Intel chips? lol.
ViniCaian@reddit
Yes? Intel's market share in the mobile space is actually increasing, and it'll probably increase further with Lunar Lake.
WorldlinessNo5192@reddit
Right, so what is it that they are going to do to AMD if they don't change, again?
ViniCaian@reddit
They're not going to do anything. They want to sell more AMD chips, if AMD isn't interested in providing them with more chips to sell, they'll simply not do that.
The mobile market is much bigger than the desktop market, AMD is the one missing out by not expanding their market share further in it. They're hiding the high wave of the AI gold rush, so of course they want to have most of their wafers dedicated to DC chips. But it's not like this will last forever...
LuluButt3rs@reddit
You people are actually insane
Word_Underscore@reddit
While not billions of dollars, I hesitate to think about all the dollars I’ve left around due to “poor execution”
Strazdas1@reddit
Such is the nature of opportunity costs.
jedrider@reddit
So, it's not as simple as just having a "chip" available? Is that why Intel has dominated the laptop market seemingly forever and still?
KARMAAACS@reddit
NVIDIA too, AMD just don't help OEMs the same as Intel and NVIDIA and that's why they will fail in the consumer market as they have for the past 20 years.
TwelveSilverSwords@reddit
It seems even Qualcomm is doing better than AMD in this regard. Why are there many X Elite laptops from various OEMs (HP, Dell, Asus, Lenovo, Surface, Acer etc...), but there's only a few Strix Point laptops from Asus?
Strazdas1@reddit
didnt Qualcomm basically sold at half price to get OEMs to use their chips?
Strazdas1@reddit
Even on software level. There was a time both Nvidia and AMD would send engineers to game developers to help optimize for thier hardware. Then around 2014 AMD just suddenly stopped doing that completely. So given that Nvidia was the only one offering support, many developers went with Nvidia optimization. AMD just keeps failing at supporting their partners.
Hifihedgehog@reddit
This. AMD’s biggest issue is they lack the manpower to do it. If they built up teams that could support companies with product development, they would be well ahead of Intel and NVIDIA. For example, Intel excels in laptops because they curate a massive catalog of ready to produce boilerplate designs that their partners can use as a starting point. Additionally, they provide a dedicated massive army of engineers to provide free design and prototyping assistance to ensure quality robust their partners products get to market as quickly as possible.
imaginary_num6er@reddit
That's definitely going to change with Intel after they've effectively fired their entire Marketing and Sales divisions
CantaloupeWorried815@reddit
now, stocks, amd is 240b, intel is 80b, AMD is three times bigger than Intel
Henrarzz@reddit
Are we really using stock market valuation as a measurement of company size?
From quick googling - AMD employs 26 thousand people. Intel employs 125 thousand. Nvidia employs almost 30 thousand.
metakepone@reddit
Pretty much every subthread in this posts comments devolve into this and its hilarious and also sickening.
CantaloupeWorried815@reddit
But if the company has no money, won't they lose top engineers? They can't pay for R&D and personnel costs, isn't this the various Intel dumpster fires that have been going on lately?
kwirky88@reddit
That’s not what market cap is.
FembiesReggs@reddit
Yep. Intel makes almost 2-3x as much money as AMD alone, depending on revenue vs net.
LeotardoDeCrapio@reddit
Same story with Qualcomm when it comes to compute btw. Which is why they had a somewhat poor launch with their Elite skus being almost 1 year late.
Company culture makes a huge difference. And having a good chip is only a part of the entire story for the platform to have success.
TwelveSilverSwords@reddit
X Elite wasn't late at all (unless you chose to believe the outdated rumours). Last October Qualcomm announced at the Snapdragon Summit that X Elite laptops will be available in mid-2024. As they promised, the laptops were out in June.
Arguably, Qualcomm has launched the X Elite better than AMD has done Strix Point. There many Snapdragon laptops from various OEMs you can choose, whereas Strix Point is only found in a few Asus laptops.
ACiD_80@reddit
They even got promoted heavily by microsoft.
But the whole project just ended up being 'very disappointing' to say it mildly.
ARM is overrated because of hype and false claims on the internet. People dont understand it.
LeotardoDeCrapio@reddit
Nope. Hamoa's roadmap to OEMs had it out originally by Q3 '23.
Both Hamoa and Stix Point have very similar amount of vendor support.
TwelveSilverSwords@reddit
So false rumours.
Even in 2022 we had rumours that laptops using Nuvia (Oryon) architecture will come out in 2024;
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Qualcomm-and-Nuvia-s-12-core-laptop-processor-to-debut-in-2024-with-a-hybrid-design-and-dGPU-support.666829.0.html
Then in 2023 at the Snapdragon Summit, Qualcomm officially announced that laptops will be available in mid-2024;
"Devices based on the Snapdragon X Elite should be available in mid-2024."
https://www.anandtech.com/show/21105/qualcomm-previews-snapdragon-x-elite-soc-oryon-cpu-starts-in-laptops-
Strix Point:
Acer Swift 14 AI.
Asus Vivobook S 14 OLED M5406.
GPD Duo OLED.
Lenovo Yoga Pro 7 14.
Lenovo ThinkBook 16 G7+
Lenovo ThinkPad T14s.
HP OmniBook Ultra 14.
MSI Prestige 16 AI+ OLED.
Asus ProArt PX13 HN7306.
Asus ProArt P16 H7606.
Asus ROG Zephyrus G16 GA605W.
Asus TUF Gaming A14 FA401.
Asus TUF Gaming A16 FA608.
MSI Creator 16 AI+
MSI Stealth 16 AI+
Hamoa
Surface Laptop 7 13"
Surface Laptop 7 15"
Surface Pro 11.
Samsung Galaxybook 4 Edge 16"
Samsung Galaxybook 4 Edge 14"
Asus Vivobook S15 OLED.
Lenovo Yoga Slim 7x.
Lenovo Thinkpad T14d Gen 6.
Acer Swift 14 Ai.
Dell XPS 13.
Dell Inspiron 14+
Dell Inspiron 14.
HP Omnibook X 14.
HP Elitebook Ultra G1q.
Dell Lattitude 7455.
Dell Lattitude 5455.
The Hamoa list is longer by a wee bit. I only included Hamoa laptops; The ones with Purwa are not in the list.
LeotardoDeCrapio@reddit
From one of your sources: "Initial estimates suggested that the first round of Nuvia-powered chips would surface in 2022. "
Hamoa was already in bring up in Q1'23. It took them almost 1 year to get power envelope down to a shippable product.
iBoMbY@reddit
You mean they don't hand out bribes?
8milenewbie@reddit
Yeah AMD in 2024 is losing to "bribes" from 2004 which just entailed bulk discounts from Intel for choosing them. You're an absolute genius, Lisa Su should hire you right away.
SmashStrider@reddit
Helping OEMs isn't just 'handing out bribes'. It includes extensive support, proper communication, and maintain strong long standing relations with these companies. Intel has effectively mastered this aspect, and is why they still control 80% of the laptop market despite extremely strong competition.
AMD should realize that performance isn't gonna give them the numbers alone. They need to build the same amount of trust and communications with these OEMs as Intel has over the years, if they want to even dream of conquering the laptop market.
Sure, I do agree that some of Intel's dominance can be attributed to bribes and rebates. But there are a lot of other factors as to why AMD is just not able to gain the same level of dominance on laptop.
ChadHartSays@reddit
Indeed. Back in the day there used to be different vendors who would put out chipsets and support chips that used Intel or AMD or Cyrux or IBM chips or whatever and OEMs/ODMs had choices. Now it's all on Intel and AMD since so much is now on the chip itself and dictated by Intel and AMD. Especially since thermal performance and power performance is so important, there's a lot that needs to happen for a product like a laptop to feel solid.
Berengal@reddit
Well, they also don't have chips available, which I suspect is the major reason. No point in providing support if you're not also providing chips.
jedrider@reddit
Always Intel's strongpoint until they couldn't advance their generations.
ACiD_80@reddit
Which is fixed now... people should use their brain and capitalize on it instead making it all personal for stupid (and mostly false) reasons.
CantaloupeWorried815@reddit
now, stocks, amd is 240b, intel is 80b, AMD is three times bigger than Intel
LeotardoDeCrapio@reddit
Yup. It's not about chips. It's about platforms and software.
You can have the greatest chip in the world, but without a platform for it to run on or software to run on it, it is going nowhere.
AMD traditionally has relied on x86 to take care of most of the software catalog, but they still need to work a bit in terms of sizing up their driver, compiler, and other system(ish) software teams.
As far as platforms go, both intel and NVIDIA have been traditionally very strong in terms of executing there. Executing strongly when it comes to providing their OEMs and partners with reference designs, support, etc.
That takes care of a lot of the uncertainty, and why OEMs tend to go with either intel and/or NVIDIA even if the products may not be as performant.
AMD is still scaling up, because up to recently they had a relatively small level of engagement with OEMs, due to their limited size.
wankthisway@reddit
It's never been. Support for your OEMs and having partners to showcase your chips is very important. Intel for example lends a hand to laptop brands, and I think they have that EVO standard as well.
Entropy_Bug@reddit
No, they have enough for the video consoles with all goodies but not for the mainstream products as laptops.
ycnz@reddit
I'd love to upgrade a bunch of our Lenovos at present, but apparently we're not allowed to have the shiny new chips yet because Asus, or something?
65726973616769747461@reddit
Even among various laptop various manufacturers, I always feels like Lenovo is the slowest of the bunchs to adopt AMD CPU.
IANVS@reddit
Lenovo absorbed IBM and they're a corporate giant in general, that ilk is slow to adopt new stuff. Not to mention they probably have various deals with Intel on the enterprise side of their business...
metakepone@reddit
Jesus christ Lenovo didn't absorb IBM, lmao
coatimundislover@reddit
They did absorb IBM PC.
Vushivushi@reddit
Dell is definitely the slowest.
IntegralEngineer@reddit
Can't be the slowest if they never adopt it.
ycnz@reddit
Well, I can't buy it from anywhere else except Asus either, and well, fuck Asus.
Next-Last-Next@reddit
They did say that they’re a Data Centre first company /s
Really though, AMD with all the added profits and resurgence should be able to do better! There’s no point of the impressive hardware if OEMs don’t get the support. They don’t feature in the latest non-Arm Surface devices too and they need to do better.
LeotardoDeCrapio@reddit
AMD hasn't been truly profitable until recently, they were cash poor for a very long time. This sub tends to misunderstand market cap with cash in hand.
They still are a somewhat smallish company going at it on multiple markets with against entrenched players. So they are not going to have great focus/execution on all of them.
They also need to still dial up a lot some of their culture. They have always had poor OEM engagement and software has been traditionally a 3rd class citizen for them.
Both of their main competitors, intel and nvidia, in contrast have extremely good customer support (in terms of their OEMs) and strong software teams.
Lisa Su is a smart cookie, so I am sure she's aware of those evolutionary routes that her company needs to take.
No-Relationship8261@reddit
Market cap is capital.
A company can issue more shares to raise capital... They choose not to.
soggybiscuit93@reddit
AMD isn't cash constrained. They've done $12B in stock buybacks in the last 2 years.
TheAgentOfTheNine@reddit
They haven't spent the full amount yet, and I doubt they will soon because they are on a buying spree right now.
auradragon1@reddit
You can’t use the “they only became rich recently” excuse for poor AMD support anymore.
They’re doing $12 billion in stock buybacks.
I always laugh when people say AMD can’t hire software engineers to build a viable CUDA alternative because they’re poor and that’s why the government should force Nvidia to open source CUDA.
https://ir.amd.com/news-events/press-releases/detail/1050/amd-announces-new-8-billion-share-repurchase-authorization
TheAgentOfTheNine@reddit
They can do stock buybacks, but they haven't in years. As investor, I'm pretty pissed at them because of that.
metakepone@reddit
Is reddit gold still a thing?
LeotardoDeCrapio@reddit
I can't make excuses for AMD, because I wasn't.
dj_antares@reddit
But you were. AMD didn't have to be "truly profitable" to hire people to support their success. It's called investments.
AMD has been on the upwards since 2015, I simply don't believe they couldn't hire 1000-2000 extra software and hardware engineers on top of what they did every year.
If they had done that, instead of hiring nearly 10000 people in just one year, they would have been in a much better place.
Doubling your team over one year never ends up well. 10-20% per year over 10 years would be much better.
LeotardoDeCrapio@reddit
You're demonstrating really poor reading and comprehension skills regarding the content of my post. Which may help explain the word "excuse" not meaning what you think it does.
auradragon1@reddit
You did. Even if it wasn’t intentional, what you wrote is exactly what someone making an excuse for AMD would write.
LeotardoDeCrapio@reddit
You clearly sound like a well adjusted individual totally not projecting their own dysfunctional emotional attachments to specific random vendors.
auradragon1@reddit
No offense to you specifically. I was more generalizing the victim mentality of AMD fans.
LeotardoDeCrapio@reddit
I'm not an AMD fan and I don't have a victim mentality.
auradragon1@reddit
Yes, like I said. It wasn't directed at you specifically.
ACiD_80@reddit
Lisa Su is very much overrated
LeotardoDeCrapio@reddit
Sure thing bud.
ACiD_80@reddit
Btw, cher her insider trading stat, lol
imaginary_num6er@reddit
Not as overrated as Pat Gelsinger for sure
ACiD_80@reddit
Pat is doing great. Hes actually going to bring innovation back to intel.
Vushivushi@reddit
???
TheAgentOfTheNine@reddit
Jus to clarify, that's GAAP accounting where you can justify billions in losses due to the xilinx purchase/merger. That's only for taxes.
The Non-GAAP would have the amortization accounted as pure profit, which goes to more than double it. Of the 5.8b in revenue, they keep 0.9b in the pocket.
burd-@reddit
0.6B sales and admin? EPYC should be able to market themselves because they're better than competition.
cd36jvn@reddit
How often does the better technical product win out over the better marketed item?
auradragon1@reddit
In enterprise chips, almost always.
soggybiscuit93@reddit
In datacenter, yes. But even in Enterprise Client: we procure 3 models of laptop per year. We pick a Latitude for the common worker, a Precision Model for engineers, and a "premium" laptop for execs (usually a Surface Pro).
We want the exact same laptop procured for that year (changing the model requires a whole new comparative process, approval, etc.).
We have thousands of employees and have yet to consider AMD for our laptops because we often can't get or guarantee the AMD models will have the volumes we need at the times we need it. Even if it may be the better chip.
IANVS@reddit
Support is a major thing in enterprise and AMD is still behind Intel there, with much less brand recognition...
auradragon1@reddit
I thought we are talking about marketing
spottiesvirus@reddit
Support and the idea of support are two distinct things
Azure market themselves, successfully as the premium-business oriented public cloud
In reality they have sub par support when compared to aws and higher prices when compared to gcp
But companies (and executives in particular) will link Microsoft to the office suite, stability and the business environment, so here we are, azure growing quarter after quarter lol
metakepone@reddit
Stability seems to be a pretty important thing
anival024@reddit
There's a reason why IBM and Oracle still exist and still rake in cash.
It's not because they're better.
auradragon1@reddit
They are better. Oracle DB is irreplaceable for many enterprises that demand extreme high availability. It’s not just marketing.
Earthborn92@reddit
I don’t think people appreciate how fucking hard it is to make an RDBMS work at scale.
sylfy@reddit
That just shows the level of entrenchment that they’re up against. There are plenty of people out there that buy or recommend Intel just because it’s the default.
dern_the_hermit@reddit
I think they mistook revenue for profit. Revenue has nearly quadrupled in the past five years and nearly octupled since a low point in 2015.
But obviously they've been spending money to make money.
Next-Last-Next@reddit
Their investments have been good and Lisa Su has been tremendous but maybe on the laptop and ultra thin segment, they’ve not executed as well as in desktop and DC.
They very well chose to do so maybe, as they’re not as big as Intel, focusing on Xilinix integration and DC AI Instinct stuff but it probably was at the expense of what’s being discussed here.
No-Relationship8261@reddit
They are twice the size of Intel. They could easily raise capital and hire people, they choose not to because that might make some investors become slightly worried.
Next-Last-Next@reddit
Twice the size of Intel? If you’re talking only market cap then yeah but revenue/profit they’re far behind, ignoring Intel’s issues in recent history.
No-Relationship8261@reddit
They can raise 50 billion in capital by issuing more shares and address those. But AMD investors might not like that and that is it.
Market Cap is the real important stuff. If non compete was not a thing, AMD could buy Intel. But Intel couldn't buy AMD.
AMD is 2x the size of Intel. They are not the underdog, they are dominating. Intel is selling their chips at a loss and still losing the value war.
The only reason AMD doesn't support OEM's is because it's more profitable to not do so.
In the end AMD is just as anti-consumer as Intel.
malisadri@reddit
Using market cap is ridiculous.
Intel is absolutely far larger than AMD
Intel annual Revenue : 54 B
AMD annual revenue: 22 B
Intel asset : 190 B
AMD asset: 68 B
Intel employee: 125k
AMD employee: 34k
Right now AMD's has higher market cap exactly because it is smaller and perceived as nimbler than Intel.
It's similar to Tesla vs Toyota/Volkswagen situation.
Vokswagen is obviously the far far larger company, however Tesla has more than ten times VW's market cap.
The smaller company has much higher valuation as investors perceive it will be more capable to navigate through the changing market situation i.e. pivot to ( AI / EV ).
No-Relationship8261@reddit
If you truly believe that you should be buying Intel shares right now.
What you need to realise is actually that Revenue doesn't matter at all. Everyone can sell something at a loss. If AMD sold their chips with a permanent %25 discount they would have more revenue and profit margin compared to Intel.
Only thing that Intel got going for it is assets. If anything Employee number is a negative as it says that Intel can't compete with AMD with 4x the employee number. Meaning each employees productivity is very low.
TLDR: If you believe what you are telling put your money where your mouth is and buy Intel shares.
Otherwise acknowledge the truth that AMD is squeezing as much as they can from customers and their workers and at their size, it would be trivial to add support. But they choose not to as that would reduce their profit margins.
malisadri@reddit
The one thing we can learn from this thread is that financial literacy in this subreddit is rather low.
Valuation != size
A small company can much more valuable than large company e.g. OpenAI has relatively low revenue at 3 billion and only several hundred employee. Yet it is valued at 150 B i.e. almost twice as valuable as the much much larger Intel.
Please just learn some finance before embarrassing yourself further,
No-Relationship8261@reddit
There is something that is called raising capital.
Board can decide to issue more shares and take advantage of their market cap. Please learn a little bit of finance before commenting again.
Also please don't invest in individual stocks with this little understanding of how it works.
soggybiscuit93@reddit
Issuing more shares dilutes share price. There are many other avenues companies prefer to take if they need to raise cash.
No-Relationship8261@reddit
Also, I just checked again, my numbers were old. AMD is 3x the size of Intel now.
Like use your brain a little, why doesn't AMD raise some capital and hire more people? Because they are already winning, they have no need to.
By not hiring support engineers they increase their profit margins, so their investors are happier.
It's that simple.
soggybiscuit93@reddit
If AMD is "not hiring support engineers [to] increase their profit margins" then why is their client margins at only 6%, much lower than Intel?
metakepone@reddit
This comment shows why it isn't worth arguing with anyone on reddit.
____candied_yams____@reddit
I never know how to get a good feel for all this stuff. My last 2 laptops have been Ryzen and they are awesome. Way lighter and cooler than the Intel laptops I've used for work
SteakandChickenMan@reddit
Their laptop ramps are dog shit slow. Like 6+ months for availability outside of a few SKUs where Intel will flood the market within a quarter. They’ve been like this for the last 3 launch cycles at least.
Winded_14@reddit
it's really they didn't produce enough. In my country there's literally no laptop with standalone 6000 CPU (back when they first released in 2021 or 2022). Even the 7000 comes quite late in my country, and the first few month is full of 7320U and 7520U aka 4300U/4500U at the price of Zen 3. Even today finding Zen 4 laptop is hard, meanwhile I could get any variety of Intel laptop just by walking to random PC store.
Plank_With_A_Nail_In@reddit
The demand in the market is higher than they are supplying. I.e. laptop manufacturers want to release new products but can't because they can't get a reliable supply of CPU's.
Next-Last-Next@reddit
We aren’t looking at enough AMD offerings in laptops. You only see Intel primarily in an already competitive segment with Apple’s chips and Qualcomm’s new X series joining the fray.
An example I mentioned was Surface laptops from Microsoft l, with whom AMD definitely works for a lot of things desktops and data centre. Why lose that socket if you have such a fantastic product?
If they have a supply constraint and say they can’t support OEMs, then it’s their revenue to lose, for me as an outside observer.
auradragon1@reddit
You're looking at the most recent quarter, which they increased R&D spending to chase AI.
If you look at cash on hand, they're very cash rich. https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AMD/amd/cash-on-hand
They're also spending $11 billion in buying back their own stocks with cash. $3 billion in 2021 and $8 billion starting in 2022.
So the "AMD with all the added profits" is true.
https://ir.amd.com/news-events/press-releases/detail/1050/amd-announces-new-8-billion-share-repurchase-authorization
Next-Last-Next@reddit
Yeah I meant to write revenue, but even so, overall they’re not as cash strapped now as they once were. This additional support effort shouldn’t require an additional billion $ either I guess.
They had the opportunity for several years but now Lunar Lake is looking to be a very good competitor so, maybe it’ll be a bit more difficult.
Intel has the advantage/momentum, with a lot of less tech savvy people not even aware/choosing to explore the only other alternative.
_Mavericks@reddit
I work at an OEM, and I have nothing to complain about AMD. They have been great partners.
perfectdreaming@reddit
OEMs have been complaining about AMD's supply for years. Is it because they are a larger or a smaller tier than you?
_Mavericks@reddit
I really don't know. Our relationship with AMD has strengthened more recently because we used to be an Intel-focused company.
People think that OEMs love Intel and prefer to work with them but in reality, the reason why they have preferred Intel is called Intel CCF and MDF (marketing funds).
996forever@reddit
Obviously business relations are always based upon monetary support?
_Mavericks@reddit
Unfortunately, yes, if you're not Apple.
Qualcomm has marketing funds Intel has marketing funds AMD is different. They provide discounts on the CPU, therefore it'll make the AMD model more affordable. This is a genius strategy because they based it around Intel's. Intel pays for the awareness, then when the consumer is ready to buy and down on the marketing funnel, he just learns that there's an AMD version that costs less and then this converts into an AMD sale.
AMD also has traditional marketing funds but it's very difficult to get and since our relationship is recent, this will take time.
996forever@reddit
Intel also literally builds its own reference platforms to go with new mobile chips. AMD doesn’t do that.
LeotardoDeCrapio@reddit
Since reference platforms are a must for bring up. It's highly unlikely AMD doesn't do that.
PMARC14@reddit
I wonder if part of the exclusivity deal with Asus is that they help AMD with such reference and validation designs?
LeotardoDeCrapio@reddit
I have no clue. I didn't even know there was any AMD exclusivity deal with Asus.
PMARC14@reddit
Well for the new AI chips they have one and they are first out of the gate with laptops with AMD chips.
TwelveSilverSwords@reddit
Has your OEM partnered with Qualcomm?
_Mavericks@reddit
In the past, yes. We had a model with 8cx but it didn't go anywhere in sales. Now we're validating a new model with Elite X. Seems pretty good but we had some build quality issues from our part.
INITMalcanis@reddit
What is weird is that the miniPC OEMs seem to have no issues. Nor the handheld PC ones. IDK, maybe they're just much lower volume channels?
the_dude_that_faps@reddit
With Intel power consumption issues, AMD is almost a natural Monopoly for mini PCs and handhelds.
It wasn't that long ago that mini PCs were Intel's domain with them pioneering the NUC.
metakepone@reddit
Maybe if you want to pay 300 dollars for a mini pc that doesn't have a pci slot
Quatro_Leches@reddit
these are very low volume devices.
Turtvaiz@reddit
Haha mini = low volume hehe
thunk_stuff@reddit
If anything it's improved? The Beelink Mini PC based on Zen 5 will be coming out next month, which is quick turn-around from when Zen 5 was announced.
Important_Cucumber@reddit
I'm running a 7840HS Beelink mini PC. I wish I could get a system like this from a big-name OEM. It's fast but feels like a janky prototype and the support isn't great.
auradragon1@reddit
Mini PCs are low volume and don’t require nearly the support that a laptop needs. Everything from sleep state firmware to idle power optimization…
512165381@reddit
MSI is making minipcs. Intel as far as I know.
tecedu@reddit
Lower volume plus integration isnt that big of a deal for them, it for laptop manutfactueres.
Have seen it in the past as well where intel will work with manufacturers to make their laptop better and integrate whereas AMD just sells chips
poopyheadthrowaway@reddit
For a while, this was one of the reasons GPD, who's been doing handhelds for a few years before the Steam Deck, gave for why they won't do an AMD handheld (right before they released an AMD handheld)
nanonan@reddit
Those guys haven't taken a fat bribe from Intel.
Zenith251@reddit
That's what shocks me. Every few months I search around for a good deal on smaller Rembrandt-R, Phoenix, and Hawk Point laptops. For the last few years, really, each time a new gen came out I'd look for last gen.
And ya know what? It's ALWAYS been hard to find models of those three architectures. I'm still finding Zen2, and Zen3 (not 3+) to this day. But 3+, Phoenix, and Hawk are bitches if you want a ultra portable.
I CAN FIND ALL DAMN THREE IN A VARIETY OF MINI-PCs. Always can! It's MADDENING.
elephantnut@reddit
they’re probably closer to the supply of the chips (and lower volume too). if you’re an acer/asus/lenovo you need to make sure you have secure supply before you invest in the chassis/bios/drivers whatever, especially when you have a lot more formal warranties to deal with across the globe
SmashStrider@reddit
AMD Laptop chips are undoubtedly competitive, but Intel has been in this game for a long time, and knows how important supply, support and communication with these OEMs are. That's why they still control 80% of the laptop market to this day, and is also why AMD hasn't been able to gain a foothold in the market quite as well as in desktop and server.
MeelyMee@reddit
And people always ask why AMD laptops are so rare.
xThomas@reddit
Not news? I thought this was already known for years
ResponsibleJudge3172@reddit
People are focusing entirely on the CPU side without noticing jiat how much worse the GPU side is
yeeeeman27@reddit
well, they are prioritizing things but they don't have an excuse if they are not transparent for the sake of keeping their partners tied to them.
Look, we have this much wafers capacity from TSMC, we can produce this amount of chips, 90% of them go to ASUS cause we love ASUS because they give us money for exclusivity and so you'll have to wait 6 months from launch until you get the damn chips and probably not many in the first 1-2 months.
I guess with this kind of transparency they would work only with ASUS and the rest would say bye bye.
Wyzrobe@reddit
Well, another thing is that ASUS supported AMD during their darkest days, ASUS was still making PCs with AMD's A-series, even when it didn't make financial sense to continue doing so.
Same thing with Microcenter, they were still giving AMD products prominent display space even after demand for Bulldozer-based chips had collapsed.
TophxSmash@reddit
im sure it helps that microcenter is extremely low volume compared to literally anyone else.
Entropy_Bug@reddit
Nope, everything is by design, AMD could very easily take over market for a long time but they wouldn't cause of fake duopoly.
996forever@reddit
source that isn't just 15+ years old?
riklaunim@reddit
Even within Asus they moved some models to Intel. Flow X16 was AMD for few generations and now it's Intel. Z13 will get Strix Halo but still AMD choices are limited.
And like all dual-screen laptops are Intel only for now.
996forever@reddit
Zephyrus Duo will probably remain AMD when Fire Range exists.
DiCePWNeD@reddit
Amd never fails to let a opportunity go to waste
As someone who throughly enjoys their AMD laptop, but disappointed in the current line up of AMD devices, I am thinking of jumping ship to ARM or waiting for Lunar Lake reciews
MrGunny94@reddit
As a Linux user I’m hoping one day I get to see fully AMD laptop builds at the high end for gaming
996forever@reddit
There is one 7900m laptop and in general 1 high end model per generation.
knz0@reddit
I think this has been an open secret for the longest time, dating back decades.
It's just that AMD has this very loyal online defense force pinning it on the latest boogeyman, whether it's Intel, Nvidia, or any OEM that's supposedly being bribed by either one.
knz0@reddit
I think this has been an open secret for the longest time, dating back decades
Professional_Gate677@reddit
“But what about Intel raptor lake?”
Lalaland94292425@reddit
AMD with another failure
12A1313IT@reddit
Real men own fabs was said by AMD's founder
Die4Ever@reddit
Lisa Su taking off her helmet: I am no man
Exist50@reddit
Well it sounds like they can pick up a lot of people from Intel now, so maybe that will be enough of a push to reverse their standing.
asdf4455@reddit
Maybe if this was back when zen 2 released but Intel today is much more competitive in the laptop market.
3Dchaos777@reddit
Nah
gatorbater5@reddit
my fantasy laptop has a steam deck APU, a decent screen, enough i/o, and a robust chassis and keyboard. i use my laptop for lightweight tasks, remoting in to my workstation, and sometimes i play games on it. i don't understand the value in >4 cores and a 15w power budget.
it annoys me so much that amd has all the tech, manufactures the chips, and this product can't be produced. it seems like such a missed opportunity.
Vushivushi@reddit
AMD steadily made it up to 25% mobile market share and OEMs stabbed AMD in the back in Q3 2022, slashing all of their orders and even pre-purchasing Intel's supply amidst a supply glut. AMD is still recovering from the resulting inventory correction.
AMD's mobile market share dropped from 25% to 15% in a single quarter and its client business has made just $175m in profits in the last 6 quarters.
https://images.anandtech.com/doci/21392/cpu-mkt-shares-q1-2024-mercury-mobile.png
Tell me this isn't a hit piece to find a new sugar daddy because I feel like in light of this news:
Intel Plans 35 Percent Cut In Costs For Sales And Marketing Group
https://www.crn.com/news/components-peripherals/2024/intel-plans-35-percent-cut-in-costs-for-sales-and-marketing-group
OEMs are worried they might actually have to innovate in the laptop market instead of relying on their scale to garner high volume discounts and preferential treatment.
Vushivushi@reddit
By the way, on those incentives...
In Q1, Intel made $1.6 billion from incentivized sales for a total of $2.9 billion over the first half.
In the same period, AMD's client segment also made $2.9 billion, in total.
Intel has essentially price-matched AMD to the dollar.
ahsan_shah@reddit
They have been supply constrained for a very long time. Look at their revenues, they have not been able to surpass July 2022 peak.
gunfell@reddit
This info has been out for weeks. Toms is behind in the copy pasting