tl;dr it's 2-4% slower than gddr6x version, not great not terrible.
Read some claims that 20-30W lower power consumption of gddr6 memory might give more OC room since cards are power limited
My logic is you should do research and ask questions about things you don't understand. Not, if you have gaps in your knowledge base, you're stupid.
I'm a chef with a ton of food ingredients I can't eat. So, you're not going to pull a fast one on me with food labeling.
However, consumer education isn't limited to subjects that come easily to you.
There isn't a subject that affects my health, safety or finances that I don't have enough knowledge about to know if an expert is bullshitting me or not.
Its bad logic. People would never have time to do reearch about every product they buy. Its an imposible task. Which is why we have agencies that are supposed to check that and make sure they are fit for consumption.
Just because you might be too lazy to make informed decisions doesn't mean everyone else is. Just because a government agency has deemed something for for consumption doesn't mean you should consume it. Only a fool doesn't look before he leaps.
Well that's one idea. Never the less the topic is about deception.
~~It's not possible for you to know you should even be wary if you did not see the news went it happens. With a product as famous and with 100 different.versions. It is not going to be possible to simply google "product x news" and... Well you can ask people.~~ I wrote this meaninglessly. it doesnt matter if a consumer can guide himself through trickery. Lying by ommision is inexcusable
Even if you do the right things. It's still possible to accidentally buy the wrong sku. After all both you and i know these things are going to have the same price. Even a few months afterwards the only difference is going to be $10 at most.
I don't know what kind of medical conditions you have towards food. But just because you need to take extra precaution. That does not mean rules regarding food should be relaxed for other purposes. Sigh... I'm not going to bother with this. I would need too many words and touch into politics, agreements, governence, etc etc. You can say that last sentence. But that doesn't mean it's actually true. Or atleast if life was that simple. There wouldn't be millions of americans voting against their owns interests
That's what you want to talk about. But, it has nothing to do with the original comment you're responding to. Furthermore, in order to receive someone you must omit critical information.
That hasn't happened. How do you think we have benchmarks on the new GPU? No investigative reporter when out searching for fraudulent SKUs based on a hunch.
Nvidia made a press release and reviewed were given product samples to test.
We know because no one was attempting to deceive anyone.
It's still possible to accidentally buy the wrong sku.
No it's not. Go on PCPP and search for GDDR6X GPUs and show me a GDDR6 GPU that gets caught in the filter.
these things are going to have the same price.
They're not even the same price now.
the only difference is going to be $10 at most.
Considering the performance difference is 2-4% (I've heard), what should be the difference in price?
That's a rhetorical question. But, remember your answer in the future because I'm sure a scenario will arise that makes you flip it.
That does not mean rules regarding food should be relaxed for other purposes.
I think you just want something to argue about. I have no clue how you got that from what I actually said.
But that doesn't mean it's actually true
It is. Just because most people you know are to lazy to inform themselves about important issues in their lives, it doesn't mean everyone is equally complacent.
Not everyone knows that there have been changes to the product
That's probably why you should do some research before you buy something.
simply missed the news that nvidia is using different memory type
Well, the press releases, tech reviews and specs aren't going anywhere so when you go to buy you'll probably figure it out if you're doing the aforementioned research
this news is easy to miss
Nobody is gonna miss this. If there's one thing fanbois love is spreading bad news about the other team.
pays the same price for worse performance.
The GDDR6X memory cards are still being sold and will be continue to be once supply normalizes.
Not everyone knows that there have been changes for whatever reason to the product. Yes, planning ahead and reading all the specs of any product is the way but many people simply missed the news that nvidia is using different memory type now that leads to lower performance. And this news is easy to miss, so anyone who once planned to buy a 4070 sometime this year pays the same price for worse performance.
My logic is you should do research and ask questions about things you don't understand. Not, if you have gaps in your knowledge base, you're stupid.
I'm a chef with a ton of food ingredients I can't eat. So, you're not going to pull a fast one on me with food labeling.
However, consumer education isn't limited to subjects that come easily to you.
There isn't a subject that affects my health, safety or finances that I don't have enough knowledge about to know if an expert is bullshitting me or not.
Each card got moved 2 tiers down. Thats why the current 4060 in name can't even beat a 3070. Or not even the closer card the 3060ti. Well they had been raising what each card gives for a while now. Not that they didn't keep raising the prices though. The current 4060 (aka 4050 a 75 watt card that is already factory overclocked to it's max. Set power limit to 60% and lose 10% perf)
It used to be that you would get an uplift that looked like 30% more fps 30% less power and 30% less money. Today. We got a 4090 that while 100% better than a 3080. Cost 100% more. Meanwhile the upgrade from the gtx 780 to gtx 980 went like 40% more fps (so 20% better than even gtx 780ti). Respectively went from 200 watts to 150 watts. So about 25% less power consumption. Officially went down from $650 to $550. Reality is a bit more conplicated but if you waited a year you could get either for $100 less than that. Sort of but not really. Since I'm sure people were buying $700 rogs cards.
Well. Atleast with the 4060 i guess nvidia views it as generous since you get 30% less cost and 33% less power consumption. From $500 minimum to $300. Or $280 if you want the single 2 fan available at that price. From 180 watts to 120. Of course the massive difference from back then is that modern cards are pushed way above their maximum efficiency.
When you consider a gtx 1080ti only drew 210 watts. If you could make it draw 400watts. Im sure you could've squeezed another 30% performance bringing it up to 3070s level of performance. To only get a 2.5x increase in performance (4090) after nearly a decade is really disappointing. Well supossedly the tech is slowing down. Meaning that from now on you should really only expect 30% total changes each gen. Not to mention they might start releasing every 3 years instead of 2. Which makes the topic of vram all the more nonsensical when these cards should be able to last 20 years. There isn't much of a reason other than to limit them short term.
The next gen will be half and half performance uplift and cost decrease. It might legitmately all be price decrease disguised as a performance increase. A $900 5080 that performs like a 4090d is possible. But maybe nvidia will still need to ration those dies. So a $1300 actual 5080 that beats a 4090 is possible too. Guess wewill see.
The 5060 should hopefully beat or match a 4070 at $300. Which would in turn mean that you could build a decent $800 system completely new that beats a ps5 pro with its 3070ti power. Or gee if you are willing to have used. You could go as low as $600 with a 3060ti and get more value than a ps5 pro.
Is exceptionally simple bud. If it doesn't sell the price will go down. If the price isn't going down then it is selling. It's very simple. If demand is high the price will go up. It's a demand is low the price will go down.
Falsify it. Go ahead. Spit out the numbers. Show us just how smart you are that you know better than 200 years of proven economic theory. I'll wait.
How will the market correct itself if people don't know what they buy? Scams are illegal because the market don't correct itself in those circumstances.
It's that much slower in almost lockstep with reduced bandwidth. It would have been interesting to see memory bandwidth utilizations between the two cards but of course it wasn't shown.
If Micron is the sole supplier of GDDR6X, relieving memory supply constraints (if there's any) could be a net positive for consumers in terms of supply/demand/cost. Though it should still be clearly labeled.
At best I saw 10$ reduction, some models didn't have any price decrease at all. And the cheapest model I've seen was still G6X. In realty there is no price cut to the cards, if there is cost saving - the OEMs and Nvidia will pocket it - not you.
I never mentioned a cost reduction. It's for maintaining card supply despite GDDR6X shortage so that card prices don't increase at the retail side due to low supply.
the drivers suck for gaming. for compute nvidia's linux drivers are fine. but you do taint your kernel with closed source code and proprietary firmware blobs.
Yes, and while NVIDIA's driver releases on Linux aren't open-source and they botch drivers from time to time, NVIDIA drivers on Linux are great once you get a good one. You get like 7-8 desktop branches to choose from and most of the problems are on the experimental branches like 560
Consumer GPUs too work better on Linux than windows for all things cuda. just not if you're using them to play games. That's how deep learning got its start :3
Exactly. In my experience when trying Blender, it renders and simulates physics faster using the GPU with both NVIDIA and AMD on Linux as it's much more compute-friendly.
Buying Nvidia products 1+ years after release: you have to manually go over every single spec to make sure they haven't changed anything.
For those that remember: this practice is somewhat common with SSD manufacturers that replace controllers/flash cells after the reviews are out without updating the spec. Nothing was done then by the authorities, nothing will be done now.
Oh and they've done it a plenty of times in early 2000s. Geforce 4 MX 4000 was available with anything from 32 bit to 128 bit bus and basically usually was a slower card than gefore 2 MX while being named strikingly similarly to Geforce 4 Ti 4200.
For those that remember: this practice is somewhat common with SSD manufacturers that replace controllers/flash cells after the reviews are out without updating the spec. Nothing was done then by the authorities, nothing will be done now.
Ugh. Is this across the board? Any way to check for that?
Under the "notes" column they write "change" for the specific models that changed anything. The rest are just the regular specs of the SSD.
Out of the 500+ models I only see 18 changes in total. There's more than one brand that changed stuff.
There were some nefarious examples of this, but most of the ones that I saw were reducing the extent to which the components installed exceeded the disclosed spec, not reducing below spec without disclosing it.
crucial replaced tlc nand in the crucial p2 with qlc nand. this of course VASTLY reduces the lifetime of the nand, BUT the performance impact was nothing short of incredible:
At least the Samsung example seems to follow the basics that you would expect when something like this happens.
They updated the packaging, the specs and gave it a new partnumber. And spec wise it wasn't all bad either, the new controller had up and downsides. But depending on your use case it could also be a substantial upgrade in specs. iirc only in very heavy sustained write scenario's the old controller was actually better and the new one a downgrade. Which is not often a scenario the general consumer will find themselves in.
All in all i feel its better to just release a fully new part, but looking at this specific Samsung example, at least they did inform the potential buyer about the change in the correct way.
iirc only in very heavy sustained write scenario's the old controller was actually better and the new one a downgrade.
that is also technically wrong, because the controller itself is very capable, although it runs hotter. it is the IMPLEMENTATION of the controller, that caused the performance to go into the dumpster.
why do we know that?
because the elpis controller in the NEW version of the 970 evo plus is the controller used in the 980 pro, which outperforms the 970 evo plus.
the 980 pro.
the elpis controller can sustain a tlc write of roughly the same, that the OLD version of the 970 evo plus with the phoenix controller was able to do.
so they used a DIFFERENT controller and implemented it in a dumpster fire way, which caused the massive sustained write performance regression.
and in regards to it being "equal-ish" with upsides and downsides.
which upsides?
they increased the slc cache to max the REDUCTION in sustained write speed. increased slc cache becomes meaningless on almost full drives.
and gets less and less the fuller the drive gets generally.
is it the higher read performance? NOPE, that one stayed the same roughly.
the actual difference, that users will experience is vastly lower sustained write speeds and that it runs 10 degrees hotter at the controller, which means, that people, who buy it because it runs cool in reviews for laptops, etc... will have a cooking ssd instead....
that is a scam.
also samsung isn't doing the "less bad" thing. samsung is doing the minimum to avoid potential lawsuits.
rightnow if you look up reviews for the 970 evo plus, you will see the reviews of the OLD version.
so it is a scam, it is misleading, but samsung doesn't give a frick.
For example Burst writes, which is much more common in consumer workloads than sustained write is a lot faster @ 2500MB/s v.s. 1750MB/s if you look at the data from the original youtube review, Tom's also notes that synthetic tests point so some upsides and some downsides for the revision, not only downsides, as you see to claim.
And that in realworld testing the revision actually wins.
Also its just not a 'cooked' SSD, The elpis controller in the revision seems to be hotter on sustained loads, but cooler in other workloads as the temperature window is a lot bigger in the screenshots, which could, depending on workload be a upside, or a downside.
All in all, as multiple sites concur, it doesn't seem to be as bad as you claim at all. For example TPU says:
the drive isn't clearly better or clearly worse than the original revision it replaces.
Toms says something along those same lines
And basically looking through all the stuff covering that SSD it generally boils down to, the revision is better if you are not doing a lot of sustained writing, and the original version is better if you do.
With regards to scams, i guess the legal definition of a scam is vastly different in our countries. As this, with how Samsung handled it would not be seen as a scam under EU law i feel, and EU law is pretty strict on that.
With regards to scams, i guess the legal definition of a scam is vastly different in our countries. As this, with how Samsung handled it would not be seen as a scam under EU law i feel, and EU law is pretty strict on that.
i am going by the actual english language definition of the word, instead of some legal definitions, that may or not be based on legislation, that HEAVILY gets effected by the industry itself already.
: a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation
eg: an insurance scam
samsung is DECEIVING customers about what they are getting when they are buying a 970 evo plus ssd.
thus it falls under the definition of a scam.
if i'm selling you 10 1080p 240 hz displays, BUT instead i ship you 10 4k uhd 60 hz displays, well.... it has up and downsides... bla bla bla and hey you still got 10 monitors, BUT
you did NOT get what you ordered.
so you got scammed.
maybe i had 10 of those 4k 60 hz displays left over and thought to dump them onto the customer, because a monitor is a monitor and they are all 27 inches.... so "same enough" right?
don't worry i also changed the name of the monitor, so that the 4k 60 hz displays use the same name as the 1080p 240 hz displays, so it is all good ;)
you bought x name monitor and got x name monitor....
___
so yeah, unless it is a clear upgrade with no downsides, then it is indeed a scam and is trying to deceive customers.
Yeah, those monitor comparisons are not really valid though in relation to the discussion as those are just different products. It would be a better comparison if a monitor would get a different panel somewhere during the lifespan of that monitor generation (which is something that actually has happened).
Here you still get a 970 evo plus ssd, albeit a different revision which according to TPU, Toms e.t.c. comes down to basically being the same product as it was before, with comparable specs, better at some stuff, worse at others. But not clearly a different product or downgrade.
When it comes to being deceptive, that would be the case if the product specs, product number, the box, e.t.c. all weren't updated. Toms even state this in the subtext of the article ("Component swap done right"). if you like componenten replacements or not, Samsung did it the way it should be done according to Tom at least.
i'm not a fan btw, but it being a scam needs to be checked on a case by case basis, with legal definitions in mind, else it holds no value if you legally can't act on the so called 'scam' because you might feel scammed, but in practice you are not and your complaint gets dismissed in court).
Toms even state this in the subtext of the article ("Component swap done right"). if you like componenten replacements or not, Samsung did it the way it should be done according to Tom at least.
to be clear, i linked the article for the fact, that it happened and the basic testing.
i don't care, nor should you what some writer's opinion is here.
you are here to make up your own mind based on the specs.
personally these days the nonsense, that comes out of tom's hardware is more a meme, than tech journalism.
Next-generation graphics cards could pull up to 225 watts from the PCIe slot alone.
implying, that graphics card would pull 3x the power, that the pci-e slot is speced for through the pci-e slot....
now this is either a tech writer with absolutely 0 clue, OR they know, that this is nonsense, but they still wrote it, because randomly click bait quota with rtx 50 series in title....
either way it is insultingly horrible.
should we care about what a tom's hardware writer thinks about an rtx 50 series card pulling 225 watt through the pci-e slot?
NO we should not, because that is impossible and nonsense.... :D
Interestingly, Nvidia apparently hoped to compensate for the reduced VRAM and bandwidth by providing the GPU more CUDA cores.
we know, that this is not how vram works. you can NOT make up for missing vram. you NEED to have enough vram. the writer at tom's hardware just wrote this nonsense...
this implies again missing tech understand. and not complex understanding, but basic understanding.
so yeah, we shouldn't care what tom's hardware writer's opinions are, but sometimes... what they are reporting or testing maybe... if we can't find a better source...
but it being a scam needs to be checked on a case by case basis, with legal definitions in mind, else it holds no value if you legally can't act on the so called 'scam' because you might feel scammed, but in practice you are not and your complaint gets dismissed in court).
a court's decision has little to do with whether or not someone got scammed.
people who treat themselves medically with cannabis get thrown into prison, people who freely provided cannabis to people who need it get again... thrown in prison.
does this mean, that using cannabis or sharing it is wrong? NO it is right, nonetheless some evil courts in a fake "justice" system threw people in prison for using a plant...
so going by what a court would decide is already losing mentally in understanding what is right or wrong.
or if you want another example.... sitting where you want in a bus as a black person being illegal....
The advertised spec is already phrased in a misleading way from the beginning. Saying "up to speed X" gives manufacturers plenty of room to pull off tricks like inadequate cooling solutions (leads to thermal throttling), speeds that downgrade after filling a small cache, etc.
Sure, they're not legally obligated to exceed the "disclosed spec", but from a practical standpoint many are effectively already below it.
always fun to have to run lots of performance testing including a full drive test to verify, that they didn't downgrade the ssd.
not to mention NON EXISTING probably QA testing.
one 980 pro i got massively dropped read performance, when you continue reading for a while and it wasn't a thermal throttle.
piece of shit should have been thrown in the dump by basic QA, but when there is no QA, or they let everything pass, then shit like that goes through...
next 980 pro i got after returning that shit was free from this bullshit.
such a shit industry, where you gotta down a rabbit hole to figure out why sometimes.... it showed a slowed down read in crystaldisk mark....
They got a slap on the wrist for the WD Red HDD shenanigans: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/wd-red-smr-lawsuit-pays-out-pennies-in-settlement-damages
Yep, after the product reviews come out, they make a cheaper version of the same product. They keep the name and model number, but give it an upgraded revision number. Usually new revisions fix problems, but sometimes they just downgrade it to make it cheaper to make.
This is one of the reasons I only build a new computer after 6 years or so, if they want to do this there is no reason for me to keep giving them money every year or every time they release a new product.
Is this sarcasm? They release a DDR4 version of the GTX 1030 that was dramatically worse, while using the same name. They’ve done this many times in the past. This isn’t even particularly egregious given the very similar performance. Apologies if you were being sarcastic.
was there price decrease between models though that's the important bit. Worse example was the 1060 3gb vs 6gb. (it wasn't just vram that got changed) nvidia got away with that even with heavy criticism from everyone. and just tripled down on this field ever since.
So this updated 4070 most likely uses Samsung GDDR6 rated for 20gbps.
Still wondering why Nvidia chose to intentionally underclock the 4080 Super GDDR6X, which is rated for 24gbps, to 23gbps. All of Techpowerup's 4080 Super units could hit at least a 25.6gbps overclock so it was free performance left on the table.
Galax being as based as they are, put a huge GDDR6 sticker on the box if im not wrong. I think ive seen an article talking about this.
Anyway, this is just a normal ngreedia moment at this point. As scummy as this is, i dont see anything changing since ngreedia is too big to even give half a damn
They changed their 4070 Ti Super from 3.5 to 2.5 slot (naming it v2) after reviews were out. For Germany both cards have the same exact prodcut and EAN number and stores still list the v1 while actually selling the v2.
GDDR6X is just a snake oil exactly like HBM2 and HBM were in 2017 with the NVIDIA TITAN V, it was just overkill and had skyrocketing power consumption.
I think people making are making drama out of it, they want to test and check performance as much as possible, as accurately as possible and report back. sharing some of their opinion doesn't make it drama.
These hopefully will drop 5% below the other 4070 cards. I'd think they would sell worse. The DIY market would know.
But not much preventing system integrators from swooping them all up. I can imagine we'll see a bunch a of Cyberpower PCs selling these and all the specs mention is "RTX 4070 12gb".
The 4070ti also uses the same GDDR6X so I would have thought a card cut down by like 25% on the cores that still keeps the same the same memory would not be bandwidth limited at all.
Steve also concludes the differences are smaller at 4k then at 1080p. Saying that "memory bandwidth is no longer the bottleneck" at 4k.
Isn't that backwards to what people usually say??? That the memory bus cuts these GPUs and AMD's RDNA2 GPU got are BAD because they suffer more at higher resolutions? You can see the 3000 scaled better to 4k than the Rx 6000 series or RTX 4000 series.
Nono, skip the /s. Call it the RTX 4069 and sell it for 420 USD. The free meme advertising and glowing reviews would make it the most popular graphics card in human history, eclipsing the 8800 GT and GTX 970.
This is completely different memory downgrade situation than GTX 970, it's 4070, not 4070 super and 4070 ti super is 50% more expensive while only 35% faster.
dedoha@reddit
tl;dr it's 2-4% slower than gddr6x version, not great not terrible. Read some claims that 20-30W lower power consumption of gddr6 memory might give more OC room since cards are power limited
randomIndividual21@reddit
No, it's terrible since it's being sold at the same price designed to mislead customer
the_hat_madder@reddit
Who could be mislead by this unless you simply don't read spec sheets or reviews?
the_hat_madder@reddit
My logic is you should do research and ask questions about things you don't understand. Not, if you have gaps in your knowledge base, you're stupid.
I'm a chef with a ton of food ingredients I can't eat. So, you're not going to pull a fast one on me with food labeling.
However, consumer education isn't limited to subjects that come easily to you.
There isn't a subject that affects my health, safety or finances that I don't have enough knowledge about to know if an expert is bullshitting me or not.
u/tukatu0
Strazdas1@reddit
Its bad logic. People would never have time to do reearch about every product they buy. Its an imposible task. Which is why we have agencies that are supposed to check that and make sure they are fit for consumption.
the_hat_madder@reddit
Just because you might be too lazy to make informed decisions doesn't mean everyone else is. Just because a government agency has deemed something for for consumption doesn't mean you should consume it. Only a fool doesn't look before he leaps.
tukatu0@reddit
Well that's one idea. Never the less the topic is about deception.
~~It's not possible for you to know you should even be wary if you did not see the news went it happens. With a product as famous and with 100 different.versions. It is not going to be possible to simply google "product x news" and... Well you can ask people.~~ I wrote this meaninglessly. it doesnt matter if a consumer can guide himself through trickery. Lying by ommision is inexcusable
Even if you do the right things. It's still possible to accidentally buy the wrong sku. After all both you and i know these things are going to have the same price. Even a few months afterwards the only difference is going to be $10 at most.
I don't know what kind of medical conditions you have towards food. But just because you need to take extra precaution. That does not mean rules regarding food should be relaxed for other purposes. Sigh... I'm not going to bother with this. I would need too many words and touch into politics, agreements, governence, etc etc. You can say that last sentence. But that doesn't mean it's actually true. Or atleast if life was that simple. There wouldn't be millions of americans voting against their owns interests
the_hat_madder@reddit
That's what you want to talk about. But, it has nothing to do with the original comment you're responding to. Furthermore, in order to receive someone you must omit critical information.
That hasn't happened. How do you think we have benchmarks on the new GPU? No investigative reporter when out searching for fraudulent SKUs based on a hunch.
Nvidia made a press release and reviewed were given product samples to test.
We know because no one was attempting to deceive anyone.
No it's not. Go on PCPP and search for GDDR6X GPUs and show me a GDDR6 GPU that gets caught in the filter.
They're not even the same price now.
Considering the performance difference is 2-4% (I've heard), what should be the difference in price?
That's a rhetorical question. But, remember your answer in the future because I'm sure a scenario will arise that makes you flip it.
I think you just want something to argue about. I have no clue how you got that from what I actually said.
It is. Just because most people you know are to lazy to inform themselves about important issues in their lives, it doesn't mean everyone is equally complacent.
Strazdas1@reddit
If the specs are different it should have different model name.
the_hat_madder@reddit
That's probably why you should do some research before you buy something.
Well, the press releases, tech reviews and specs aren't going anywhere so when you go to buy you'll probably figure it out if you're doing the aforementioned research
Nobody is gonna miss this. If there's one thing fanbois love is spreading bad news about the other team.
The GDDR6X memory cards are still being sold and will be continue to be once supply normalizes.
u/classifiedspam
ClearTacos@reddit
That's probably the majority of buyers though
the_hat_madder@reddit
It doesn't work that way. I'm not dishonest because you won't read.
classifiedspam@reddit
Not everyone knows that there have been changes for whatever reason to the product. Yes, planning ahead and reading all the specs of any product is the way but many people simply missed the news that nvidia is using different memory type now that leads to lower performance. And this news is easy to miss, so anyone who once planned to buy a 4070 sometime this year pays the same price for worse performance.
conquer69@reddit
There is no reason to read the specs unless there are scammy cards around.
tupseh@reddit
Sometimes, usually with prebuilts, the spec page will simply say "RTX4070, 12GB" and that's it.
the_hat_madder@reddit
Another consumer education issue. Don't buy pre-builts.
u/tupseh/
the_hat_madder@reddit
My logic is you should do research and ask questions about things you don't understand. Not, if you have gaps in your knowledge base, you're stupid.
I'm a chef with a ton of food ingredients I can't eat. So, you're not going to pull a fast one on me with food labeling.
However, consumer education isn't limited to subjects that come easily to you.
There isn't a subject that affects my health, safety or finances that I don't have enough knowledge about to know if an expert is bullshitting me or not.
https://www.reddit.com/u/tukatu0/s/rhWGfaqrp6
BrushPsychological74@reddit
Literally most people.
the_hat_madder@reddit
I wasn't aware most people were this stupid.
tukatu0@reddit
Welcome to the club. You are now executive worthy. That's why sh"" is priced the way it is across all industries
BrushPsychological74@reddit
Just because you shi llfor Nvidia doesn't make you smart.
kikimaru024@reddit
Launched at the same price.
Market will correct itself.
BrushPsychological74@reddit
Whoa whoa whoa buddy. Be careful. Every time I bring up basic economics on here they screech at me. Mind where you step. You may get bit.
tukatu0@reddit
If it worked like you are insinuating. 4060s wouldnt be $500. But what ever
Zevemty@reddit
What? 4060s are like $280 my dude...
tukatu0@reddit
Each card got moved 2 tiers down. Thats why the current 4060 in name can't even beat a 3070. Or not even the closer card the 3060ti. Well they had been raising what each card gives for a while now. Not that they didn't keep raising the prices though. The current 4060 (aka 4050 a 75 watt card that is already factory overclocked to it's max. Set power limit to 60% and lose 10% perf)
It used to be that you would get an uplift that looked like 30% more fps 30% less power and 30% less money. Today. We got a 4090 that while 100% better than a 3080. Cost 100% more. Meanwhile the upgrade from the gtx 780 to gtx 980 went like 40% more fps (so 20% better than even gtx 780ti). Respectively went from 200 watts to 150 watts. So about 25% less power consumption. Officially went down from $650 to $550. Reality is a bit more conplicated but if you waited a year you could get either for $100 less than that. Sort of but not really. Since I'm sure people were buying $700 rogs cards.
Well. Atleast with the 4060 i guess nvidia views it as generous since you get 30% less cost and 33% less power consumption. From $500 minimum to $300. Or $280 if you want the single 2 fan available at that price. From 180 watts to 120. Of course the massive difference from back then is that modern cards are pushed way above their maximum efficiency.
When you consider a gtx 1080ti only drew 210 watts. If you could make it draw 400watts. Im sure you could've squeezed another 30% performance bringing it up to 3070s level of performance. To only get a 2.5x increase in performance (4090) after nearly a decade is really disappointing. Well supossedly the tech is slowing down. Meaning that from now on you should really only expect 30% total changes each gen. Not to mention they might start releasing every 3 years instead of 2. Which makes the topic of vram all the more nonsensical when these cards should be able to last 20 years. There isn't much of a reason other than to limit them short term.
The next gen will be half and half performance uplift and cost decrease. It might legitmately all be price decrease disguised as a performance increase. A $900 5080 that performs like a 4090d is possible. But maybe nvidia will still need to ration those dies. So a $1300 actual 5080 that beats a 4090 is possible too. Guess wewill see.
The 5060 should hopefully beat or match a 4070 at $300. Which would in turn mean that you could build a decent $800 system completely new that beats a ps5 pro with its 3070ti power. Or gee if you are willing to have used. You could go as low as $600 with a 3060ti and get more value than a ps5 pro.
Zevemty@reddit
Bro, that was way too much text just to say "I think I'm the authority of what name a card has, not Nvidia". I won't even bother reading that lol...
tukatu0@reddit
Dude you asked. What, do you want to make claims without proof or something? Smh
Zevemty@reddit
I didn't ask anything, I corrected you.
tukatu0@reddit
Lol sure buddy
Zevemty@reddit
Nah I'm good, I'm skipping the 40 series. Doesn't change the basic facts like what cards are named though.
BrushPsychological74@reddit
I'm not insinuating anything. The long established and proven principles are. But I guess you're smarter, so "whatever".
tukatu0@reddit
Sure buddy. Go ahead and insult people instead of recognizing your idea is just wrong.
The long proven economic behaviour went out the window with covid supply shock.
BrushPsychological74@reddit
Is exceptionally simple bud. If it doesn't sell the price will go down. If the price isn't going down then it is selling. It's very simple. If demand is high the price will go up. It's a demand is low the price will go down.
Falsify it. Go ahead. Spit out the numbers. Show us just how smart you are that you know better than 200 years of proven economic theory. I'll wait.
Danne660@reddit
How will the market correct itself if people don't know what they buy? Scams are illegal because the market don't correct itself in those circumstances.
BrushPsychological74@reddit
How do you know it doesn't? Did you measure?
Yes Nvidia is shady and scammy. News flash right? But that's not what I was discussing. I don't buy Nvidia shit anymore.
Danne660@reddit
You think scams should be legal since they apparently get weeded out automatically by the market?
BrushPsychological74@reddit
No.
EnterpriseNL@reddit
And that's the main reason, if it's cost to produce ischeaper, Good, but also make the card cheaper.
BlueGoliath@reddit
It's that much slower in almost lockstep with reduced bandwidth. It would have been interesting to see memory bandwidth utilizations between the two cards but of course it wasn't shown.
INITMalcanis@reddit
Our reminder that the 4070 could and should have been a 16GB card.
Captobvious75@reddit
So… why was this made?
dedoha@reddit
Only Micron produces gddr6x memory chips and there is a shortage of them.
aminorityofone@reddit
When you buy a product it should be as advertised.
dedoha@reddit
Well it says gddr6 on the box
conquer69@reddit
Which isn't helpful unless you already know what memory the original card has and are on the lookout.
TwoCylToilet@reddit
If Micron is the sole supplier of GDDR6X, relieving memory supply constraints (if there's any) could be a net positive for consumers in terms of supply/demand/cost. Though it should still be clearly labeled.
BuchMaister@reddit
At best I saw 10$ reduction, some models didn't have any price decrease at all. And the cheapest model I've seen was still G6X. In realty there is no price cut to the cards, if there is cost saving - the OEMs and Nvidia will pocket it - not you.
TwoCylToilet@reddit
I never mentioned a cost reduction. It's for maintaining card supply despite GDDR6X shortage so that card prices don't increase at the retail side due to low supply.
blaktronium@reddit
It only seems to reduce power by like 5w
Mission-Zucchini8122@reddit
Don't care about NVIDIA since i use Linux, NVIDIA is a very shady business and their drivers suck.
Strazdas1@reddit
You get downvotes because your comment is not relevant to the topic discussed.
randomkidlol@reddit
the drivers suck for gaming. for compute nvidia's linux drivers are fine. but you do taint your kernel with closed source code and proprietary firmware blobs.
tavirabon@reddit
Yes, and while NVIDIA's driver releases on Linux aren't open-source and they botch drivers from time to time, NVIDIA drivers on Linux are great once you get a good one. You get like 7-8 desktop branches to choose from and most of the problems are on the experimental branches like 560
XYHopGuy@reddit
Nvidia has poor Linux gaming drivers. Rest of their stack is better on Linux
Mission-Zucchini8122@reddit
IIRC their data center hardware is first-class on Linux. It's just that they only help the billion-dollar users and not the home users/gamers.
XYHopGuy@reddit
Consumer GPUs too work better on Linux than windows for all things cuda. just not if you're using them to play games. That's how deep learning got its start :3
Mission-Zucchini8122@reddit
Exactly. In my experience when trying Blender, it renders and simulates physics faster using the GPU with both NVIDIA and AMD on Linux as it's much more compute-friendly.
XYHopGuy@reddit
Lmao so true. it's actually amazing how well both rocm and cuda work on windows these days but it still stresses me tf out
SolaceInScrutiny@reddit
Nah it's just that you're part of a user base consisting of 11 people.
NewRedditIsVeryUgly@reddit
Buying Nvidia products 1+ years after release: you have to manually go over every single spec to make sure they haven't changed anything.
For those that remember: this practice is somewhat common with SSD manufacturers that replace controllers/flash cells after the reviews are out without updating the spec. Nothing was done then by the authorities, nothing will be done now.
AstroNaut765@reddit
The crazy thing is it's going for 20 years.
Geforce fx 5200 was hated card, but mainly due to Nvidia only sending faster version for reviews. You buy a product and it's slower than reviews...
kyralfie@reddit
Oh and they've done it a plenty of times in early 2000s. Geforce 4 MX 4000 was available with anything from 32 bit to 128 bit bus and basically usually was a slower card than gefore 2 MX while being named strikingly similarly to Geforce 4 Ti 4200.
Rentta@reddit
It was mx400 not 4000
kyralfie@reddit
Google it. There was MX 4000.
Rentta@reddit
Ah i didn't even know this existed. My bad. I was thinking about mx440 cards which also were misleading.
Strazdas1@reddit
hey dont diss mx440, i had that one immolate itself back in the day. Worked all the way through till physically got too damaged.
kyralfie@reddit
Np. Yeah 4 MX as a rehash of 2 MX was nefarious but 4 MX 4000 was absolutelty next level.
henry_tennenbaum@reddit
Ugh. Is this across the board? Any way to check for that?
Plank_With_A_Nail_In@reddit
Wait until you find out about cars, that new Ford Ranger is nothing like the one Car & Driver reviewed 20 years ago.
NewRedditIsVeryUgly@reddit
Not across the board, and this might help:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1B27_j9NDPU3cNlj2HKcrfpJKHkOf-Oi1DbuuQva2gT4/edit?gid=0#gid=0
letmesee2716@reddit
can you make us a tldr of the brands that do the scam? this link is a little complicated.
NewRedditIsVeryUgly@reddit
Under the "notes" column they write "change" for the specific models that changed anything. The rest are just the regular specs of the SSD. Out of the 500+ models I only see 18 changes in total. There's more than one brand that changed stuff.
WorldlinessNo5192@reddit
There were some nefarious examples of this, but most of the ones that I saw were reducing the extent to which the components installed exceeded the disclosed spec, not reducing below spec without disclosing it.
reddit_equals_censor@reddit
for ssd makers.
samsung replaced 970 evo plus controller to one, that had VASTLY lower sustained writes and ran VASTLY hotter.
it went from 1750 MB/s to 800 MB/s :
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/samsung-is-swapping-ssd-parts-too
no shits given by samsung....
HALFING performance and no shits given.
but this one is VASTLY more insane:
crucial replaced tlc nand in the crucial p2 with qlc nand. this of course VASTLY reduces the lifetime of the nand, BUT the performance impact was nothing short of incredible:
https://www.tomshardware.com/features/crucial-p2-ssd-qlc-flash-swap-downgrade/2
look at the sustained sequential write 1MB qd 32 graph
in the slc cache already the tlc version wrote at 1.85 GB/s, the qlc version at just 1.16 GB/s,
BUT after the slc cache ran out, the tlc version wrote at 450 MB/s, now the qlc version wrote at....
40 MB/S!!!!!!!
an 11x downgrade in sustained write speed.
you WILL notice when copying a file to it is 1/3 the speed of your harddrive.....
instead of 450 MB/s.
just insane.
and in regards to graphics cards. nvidia downgraded gddr to ddr in one graphics card, which caused a MASSIVE performance drop.
and more than that, but that should be enough examples to show you, that there are massive impacts by the crimes done by those evil shit companies.
Chronia82@reddit
At least the Samsung example seems to follow the basics that you would expect when something like this happens.
They updated the packaging, the specs and gave it a new partnumber. And spec wise it wasn't all bad either, the new controller had up and downsides. But depending on your use case it could also be a substantial upgrade in specs. iirc only in very heavy sustained write scenario's the old controller was actually better and the new one a downgrade. Which is not often a scenario the general consumer will find themselves in.
All in all i feel its better to just release a fully new part, but looking at this specific Samsung example, at least they did inform the potential buyer about the change in the correct way.
reddit_equals_censor@reddit
that is also technically wrong, because the controller itself is very capable, although it runs hotter. it is the IMPLEMENTATION of the controller, that caused the performance to go into the dumpster.
why do we know that?
because the elpis controller in the NEW version of the 970 evo plus is the controller used in the 980 pro, which outperforms the 970 evo plus.
the 980 pro.
the elpis controller can sustain a tlc write of roughly the same, that the OLD version of the 970 evo plus with the phoenix controller was able to do.
so they used a DIFFERENT controller and implemented it in a dumpster fire way, which caused the massive sustained write performance regression.
and in regards to it being "equal-ish" with upsides and downsides.
which upsides?
they increased the slc cache to max the REDUCTION in sustained write speed. increased slc cache becomes meaningless on almost full drives.
and gets less and less the fuller the drive gets generally.
is it the higher read performance? NOPE, that one stayed the same roughly.
the actual difference, that users will experience is vastly lower sustained write speeds and that it runs 10 degrees hotter at the controller, which means, that people, who buy it because it runs cool in reviews for laptops, etc... will have a cooking ssd instead....
that is a scam.
also samsung isn't doing the "less bad" thing. samsung is doing the minimum to avoid potential lawsuits.
rightnow if you look up reviews for the 970 evo plus, you will see the reviews of the OLD version.
so it is a scam, it is misleading, but samsung doesn't give a frick.
and it is a downgrade for customers.
Chronia82@reddit
For example Burst writes, which is much more common in consumer workloads than sustained write is a lot faster @ 2500MB/s v.s. 1750MB/s if you look at the data from the original youtube review, Tom's also notes that synthetic tests point so some upsides and some downsides for the revision, not only downsides, as you see to claim.
And that in realworld testing the revision actually wins.
Also its just not a 'cooked' SSD, The elpis controller in the revision seems to be hotter on sustained loads, but cooler in other workloads as the temperature window is a lot bigger in the screenshots, which could, depending on workload be a upside, or a downside.
All in all, as multiple sites concur, it doesn't seem to be as bad as you claim at all. For example TPU says:
Toms says something along those same lines
And basically looking through all the stuff covering that SSD it generally boils down to, the revision is better if you are not doing a lot of sustained writing, and the original version is better if you do.
With regards to scams, i guess the legal definition of a scam is vastly different in our countries. As this, with how Samsung handled it would not be seen as a scam under EU law i feel, and EU law is pretty strict on that.
reddit_equals_censor@reddit
i am going by the actual english language definition of the word, instead of some legal definitions, that may or not be based on legislation, that HEAVILY gets effected by the industry itself already.
the english definition:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scam
samsung is DECEIVING customers about what they are getting when they are buying a 970 evo plus ssd.
thus it falls under the definition of a scam.
if i'm selling you 10 1080p 240 hz displays, BUT instead i ship you 10 4k uhd 60 hz displays, well.... it has up and downsides... bla bla bla and hey you still got 10 monitors, BUT
you did NOT get what you ordered.
so you got scammed.
maybe i had 10 of those 4k 60 hz displays left over and thought to dump them onto the customer, because a monitor is a monitor and they are all 27 inches.... so "same enough" right?
don't worry i also changed the name of the monitor, so that the 4k 60 hz displays use the same name as the 1080p 240 hz displays, so it is all good ;)
you bought x name monitor and got x name monitor....
___
so yeah, unless it is a clear upgrade with no downsides, then it is indeed a scam and is trying to deceive customers.
Chronia82@reddit
Yeah, those monitor comparisons are not really valid though in relation to the discussion as those are just different products. It would be a better comparison if a monitor would get a different panel somewhere during the lifespan of that monitor generation (which is something that actually has happened).
Here you still get a 970 evo plus ssd, albeit a different revision which according to TPU, Toms e.t.c. comes down to basically being the same product as it was before, with comparable specs, better at some stuff, worse at others. But not clearly a different product or downgrade.
When it comes to being deceptive, that would be the case if the product specs, product number, the box, e.t.c. all weren't updated. Toms even state this in the subtext of the article ("Component swap done right"). if you like componenten replacements or not, Samsung did it the way it should be done according to Tom at least.
i'm not a fan btw, but it being a scam needs to be checked on a case by case basis, with legal definitions in mind, else it holds no value if you legally can't act on the so called 'scam' because you might feel scammed, but in practice you are not and your complaint gets dismissed in court).
reddit_equals_censor@reddit
to be clear, i linked the article for the fact, that it happened and the basic testing.
i don't care, nor should you what some writer's opinion is here.
you are here to make up your own mind based on the specs.
personally these days the nonsense, that comes out of tom's hardware is more a meme, than tech journalism.
if you want 2 recent gem's from tom's hardware:
https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/motherboards/msi-x870-x870e-motherboards-have-an-extra-8-pin-pcie-power-connector-for-next-gen-gpus-unofficially-aimed-at-geforce-rtx-50-series
implying, that graphics card would pull 3x the power, that the pci-e slot is speced for through the pci-e slot....
now this is either a tech writer with absolutely 0 clue, OR they know, that this is nonsense, but they still wrote it, because randomly click bait quota with rtx 50 series in title....
either way it is insultingly horrible.
should we care about what a tom's hardware writer thinks about an rtx 50 series card pulling 225 watt through the pci-e slot?
NO we should not, because that is impossible and nonsense.... :D
2nd example:
https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/gpus/nvidia-rtx-4070-10gb-prototype-appears-on-gpu-z-the-configuration-provided-more-shader-cores-but-less-memory-and-bandwidth
we know, that this is not how vram works. you can NOT make up for missing vram. you NEED to have enough vram. the writer at tom's hardware just wrote this nonsense...
this implies again missing tech understand. and not complex understanding, but basic understanding.
so yeah, we shouldn't care what tom's hardware writer's opinions are, but sometimes... what they are reporting or testing maybe... if we can't find a better source...
a court's decision has little to do with whether or not someone got scammed.
people who treat themselves medically with cannabis get thrown into prison, people who freely provided cannabis to people who need it get again... thrown in prison.
does this mean, that using cannabis or sharing it is wrong? NO it is right, nonetheless some evil courts in a fake "justice" system threw people in prison for using a plant...
so going by what a court would decide is already losing mentally in understanding what is right or wrong.
or if you want another example.... sitting where you want in a bus as a black person being illegal....
yimingwuzere@reddit
While true, most reviewers only tested the fastest chips. So most people expect more performance than advertised.
NewRedditIsVeryUgly@reddit
The advertised spec is already phrased in a misleading way from the beginning. Saying "up to speed X" gives manufacturers plenty of room to pull off tricks like inadequate cooling solutions (leads to thermal throttling), speeds that downgrade after filling a small cache, etc.
Sure, they're not legally obligated to exceed the "disclosed spec", but from a practical standpoint many are effectively already below it.
wichwigga@reddit
Good ol WD SSD behavior
procursive@reddit
Kingston did it with a really popular budget model a long time ago too. A400 or something like that.
reisstc@reddit
I recall the SSDNow V300, which changed to slower NAND very quietly with one revision. It was much slower.
I recall this one because I bought it and noticed it was rather slow when transferring large amounts of files.
reddit_equals_censor@reddit
and samsung and more.
all scaming pieces of shit companies.
always fun to have to run lots of performance testing including a full drive test to verify, that they didn't downgrade the ssd.
not to mention NON EXISTING probably QA testing.
one 980 pro i got massively dropped read performance, when you continue reading for a while and it wasn't a thermal throttle.
piece of shit should have been thrown in the dump by basic QA, but when there is no QA, or they let everything pass, then shit like that goes through...
next 980 pro i got after returning that shit was free from this bullshit.
such a shit industry, where you gotta down a rabbit hole to figure out why sometimes.... it showed a slowed down read in crystaldisk mark....
either way, can't trust a storage maker.
nanonan@reddit
They all do it.
COMPUTER1313@reddit
They got a slap on the wrist for the WD Red HDD shenanigans: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/wd-red-smr-lawsuit-pays-out-pennies-in-settlement-damages
Lardzor@reddit
Yep, after the product reviews come out, they make a cheaper version of the same product. They keep the name and model number, but give it an upgraded revision number. Usually new revisions fix problems, but sometimes they just downgrade it to make it cheaper to make.
Darksider123@reddit
I wanted to recommend a 3050/3060 to a friend, but could not be arsed do the research. He went with a 6600 instead.
downbad12878@reddit
Why you didn't warn your friend
zakats@reddit
If the prices there are anything like they are in the US, your friend got a better deal.
Risley@reddit
Should have just recommended the 4090...
Curious_Donut_8497@reddit
This is one of the reasons I only build a new computer after 6 years or so, if they want to do this there is no reason for me to keep giving them money every year or every time they release a new product.
classifiedspam@reddit
There's no reason to do that anyway.
imaginary_num6er@reddit
This is why the more you buy at launch, the more you save. Both in MSRP and in specs
kikimaru024@reddit
OMG please stop with this tired meme.
It wasn't even related to consumer GPUs.
PM_ME_UR_TOSTADAS@reddit
Why does this offend you?
conquer69@reddit
He isn't offended, he is annoyed.
PM_ME_UR_TOSTADAS@reddit
Offend and bother have similar meanings in my language so I used offend without thinking about it.
My question still stands, why is he annoyed?
iyicanme@reddit
Why does this offend you?
HandheldAddict@reddit
Nvidia going to Nvidia.
Funnily enough, most of Nvidia's egregious shenanigans are on mobile. Like the time they replaced 6gb GTX 1660 Ti laptops with 4gb RTX 3050/Ti's.
Long-Ad226@reddit
ahhh i'm so happy about beeing a team red fanboy. their devices and driver age like fine wine
Advanced_Parfait2947@reddit
just get a radeon 6800 xt man.... unless you absolutely want ray tracing or dlss
bubblesort33@reddit
You can't get those anymore new in 90% of countries.
Advanced_Parfait2947@reddit
I call bs on that.
The 7800xt is newer than the 6800 I heavily doubt it's not available in 90% of the countries. That's a straight up lie
Real-Human-1985@reddit
Man, never thought Nvidia would do something like this.
jasonwc@reddit
Is this sarcasm? They release a DDR4 version of the GTX 1030 that was dramatically worse, while using the same name. They’ve done this many times in the past. This isn’t even particularly egregious given the very similar performance. Apologies if you were being sarcastic.
tavirabon@reddit
Considering this is the 3-4th+ time they've done this...
kyralfie@reddit
Nah, way more than that.
Yearlaren@reddit
Reddit moment
Mission-Zucchini8122@reddit
Or the GeForce 8400GS that was based on the 210 but still had the same branding as the real 8400GS so people accidentally bought the worse one.
BuchMaister@reddit
Now I understand why in reddit people have to use '/s'.
bow_down_whelp@reddit
1060 3 and 6 gig was a total con as well
SauronOfRings@reddit
No, we really can’t believe a beloved, upstanding , customer loving company like NVIDIA could do this.
TwoCylToilet@reddit
I'm very certain this user was being sarcastic.
XenonJFt@reddit
was there price decrease between models though that's the important bit. Worse example was the 1060 3gb vs 6gb. (it wasn't just vram that got changed) nvidia got away with that even with heavy criticism from everyone. and just tripled down on this field ever since.
conquer69@reddit
Bait and switch is rampant in the tech space.
aminorityofone@reddit
They have been doing this for decades... literally.
cuttino_mowgli@reddit
surprised Pikachu face
but seriously, Nvidia is notorious with this. This isn't the first.
Gippy_@reddit
So this updated 4070 most likely uses Samsung GDDR6 rated for 20gbps.
Still wondering why Nvidia chose to intentionally underclock the 4080 Super GDDR6X, which is rated for 24gbps, to 23gbps. All of Techpowerup's 4080 Super units could hit at least a 25.6gbps overclock so it was free performance left on the table.
ResponsibleJudge3172@reddit
All of chips using AD104 and AD102 chips are using 24gbps VRAM. It's just a little annoying that they were all downclocked. Especially 4090.
I believe AD104 like 4070ti uses 21gbps chips so they're good
Gippy_@reddit
Actually, the 4090 uses 21gbps GDDR6X. (Source: 4090 teardown)
Some OC team made a "4090 Super" monster card by using the 3090 Ti's superior VRM, 4080 Super GDDR6X, and a 4090 GPU. See here.
IAteMyYeezys@reddit
Galax being as based as they are, put a huge GDDR6 sticker on the box if im not wrong. I think ive seen an article talking about this.
Anyway, this is just a normal ngreedia moment at this point. As scummy as this is, i dont see anything changing since ngreedia is too big to even give half a damn
PM_ME_UR_TOSTADAS@reddit
Galax is the only remaining good Nvidia partner, along with Zotac.
STUX_115@reddit
They changed their 4070 Ti Super from 3.5 to 2.5 slot (naming it v2) after reviews were out. For Germany both cards have the same exact prodcut and EAN number and stores still list the v1 while actually selling the v2.
halotechnology@reddit
Zotac ? Fuck no , I will never forget them during COVID
F That company.
nanonan@reddit
Why?
halotechnology@reddit
They treated us like trash raised their prices and took advantage of everyone .
danielee0707@reddit
Colorful is good as well
John_Deagle@reddit
Better go with amd rx 7800 xt.
XYHopGuy@reddit
Which also uses gddr6 and not gddr6x
dr1ppyblob@reddit
The point is that the 7800XT is cheaper, and now performs even better
XYHopGuy@reddit
now that 4070 is 1% slower everything has changed
dr1ppyblob@reddit
Fuck, 1%? I’ll call Jensen this is ridiculous.
aminorityofone@reddit
2-4%
XYHopGuy@reddit
https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4070-gddr6-vs-gddr6x-tested-99-performance-at-1440p-1080p-98-at-4k
conquer69@reddit
Damn...
XYHopGuy@reddit
for maxed out raster where it goes 63 ->60 fps. fortunately max RT maintains 65 -> 65
Mission-Zucchini8122@reddit
GDDR6X is just a snake oil exactly like HBM2 and HBM were in 2017 with the NVIDIA TITAN V, it was just overkill and had skyrocketing power consumption.
conquer69@reddit
And yet it only consumes 5W more so it's equally power efficient... which you would know if you watched the video.
NotTechBro@reddit
So then you should buy this product because it doesn’t use snake oil. Perfect logic.
XYHopGuy@reddit
I don't think snake oil is fair but it def is a marginal performance bump, which is why this whole thread is funny.
Mission-Zucchini8122@reddit
Agree. I had a million problems with my 4060Ti on Linux so i switched to a 6650XT, works better than ever.
conquer69@reddit
Needs to be priced at $480 to offer better price performance than the 4070 super which is 22% faster.
bobbie434343@reddit
Thank you HUB but I'd rather watch a new Zen 5 video. It must never end.
conquer69@reddit
AMD fans got really offended at HUB being critical of Zen5 huh?
BuchMaister@reddit
I think people making are making drama out of it, they want to test and check performance as much as possible, as accurately as possible and report back. sharing some of their opinion doesn't make it drama.
britzsim@reddit
what is considered a great deal? price wise
ea_man@reddit
Makes sense, soon they will release the new gen and there you have it: an extra few % point in performance vs the old model.
Jeep-Eep@reddit
nVidia board fuckery is getting as memetic as AMD driver issues, but it's fresher.
advester@reddit
Shrinkflation. It's bad, but usually isn't called a "scam"
DeathDexoys@reddit
R/Nvidia never to not disappoint me on how many idiots are willing to defend their billion dollar company and their share holders
dedoha@reddit
Are we browsing same reddit? 90% of comments there are piling up on nvidia, even harder than here
Sosowski@reddit
Nvidia did this since forever. I had a 6800, which was DDR1 instead of GDDR3. Of course the ram got cooked after some time.
MeelyMee@reddit
But but but we need the limited supply of GDDR6X for the higher profit margin models...
bubblesort33@reddit
These hopefully will drop 5% below the other 4070 cards. I'd think they would sell worse. The DIY market would know.
But not much preventing system integrators from swooping them all up. I can imagine we'll see a bunch a of Cyberpower PCs selling these and all the specs mention is "RTX 4070 12gb".
bubblesort33@reddit
That's more of a difference than I expected.
The 4070ti also uses the same GDDR6X so I would have thought a card cut down by like 25% on the cores that still keeps the same the same memory would not be bandwidth limited at all.
Steve also concludes the differences are smaller at 4k then at 1080p. Saying that "memory bandwidth is no longer the bottleneck" at 4k.
Isn't that backwards to what people usually say??? That the memory bus cuts these GPUs and AMD's RDNA2 GPU got are BAD because they suffer more at higher resolutions? You can see the 3000 scaled better to 4k than the Rx 6000 series or RTX 4000 series.
hackenclaw@reddit
Should have rebranded as RTX4069.
/s
OftenSarcastic@reddit
Nono, skip the /s. Call it the RTX 4069 and sell it for 420 USD. The free meme advertising and glowing reviews would make it the most popular graphics card in human history, eclipsing the 8800 GT and GTX 970.
hackenclaw@reddit
Why not 469 USD?
OftenSarcastic@reddit
Because we already have the sex number in the model name, so we need the weed number in the price. Thus increasing the meme potential quadratically.
bogglingsnog@reddit
Memory runs at 5.8008 gigahertz
jnf005@reddit
420.69 usd it is.
dc_IV@reddit
Nice....
cuttino_mowgli@reddit
lmao
jerryfrz@reddit
With that price it would be a legit good buy lol
Spiritual_Navigator@reddit
Are people really outraged over the loss of 3fps?
etfvidal@reddit
Or the 4070 FU edition!
yUQHdn7DNWr9@reddit
Nice
broknbottle@reddit
GTX 970 with 3.5G of memory has entered the chat
dedoha@reddit
This is completely different memory downgrade situation than GTX 970, it's 4070, not 4070 super and 4070 ti super is 50% more expensive while only 35% faster.
broknbottle@reddit
My point was that the 70 models are no stranger to gimping.
35% faster at what? The lack of specifics indicates that you have unconscious bias towards a specific workload / use case.
The extra 4GB of memory is desirable for gaming, local llms, productivity workloads, etc
metalmayne@reddit
no free nvidia cards for you this christmas season says the boss
EiffelPower76@reddit
Just another stupid drama queen video on YouTube
Aristotelaras@reddit
Just remember folks the more you buy the more you save!
XenonJFt@reddit
Oh god Steve is standing again hold onto your pants.