ChatGPT says that capitalism is better than socialism at eliminating poverty.
Posted by IDontLikePayingTaxes@reddit | Libertarian | View on Reddit | 61 comments
aimerj@reddit
Neither will "eliminate" poverty. Because we will never accept the balance needed. However the mix of both "could" eliminate poverty.
HODL_monk@reddit
Eliminating poverty is only a matter of changing the definition to some absurdly low amount of income, like $0.02 a day. The concept of the 'middle class' is also a bit fuzzy. shrinking or growing either class is just an exercise in definition setting. Also, welfare at any level does not 'eliminate' poverty, any more than slapping on a few swipes of deodorant means that I have bathed. Plentiful bread and circuses 'eliminated' poverty in ancient Rome, but it was an inflationary illusion, as once the barbarians arrived at the gates, it turned out that Roman government WAS the circus, and the barbarians took all those future welfare checky-checks for themselves, and poverty was BACK, baby ! Or did it ever leave ? Of course it was always there, and the end of the free bread gravy train made it immediately obvious.
notgmoney@reddit
Poverty is just a definition. That definition will always be changing, but the word will never vanish out of our diction. This logic can be applied to a lot of things.
aimerj@reddit
Words are just words. Understood.
notgmoney@reddit
Yes, aka poverty will never disappear due to any economic conditions or otherwise.
Classic_Day2530@reddit
the socialist countries that I known of are brokies.
Air-Tech@reddit
ChatGPT is just predicting what you want to read based on all the shit already on the Internet.
notgmoney@reddit
I don't understand. Are you saying the reply is different based on the user?
The way I understand it, chatGPT is like drawing it's info from the internet aka the world's biggest library, then deriving answers from that information. What do you mean "predicting" what you want to read?
Air-Tech@reddit
ChatGPT is a LLM (Large Language Model). It does not actually know things or "derive answers", rather it is just mimicking words according to human patterns it has learned from. It doesn't know right and wrong or even true and false.
notgmoney@reddit
Yes, like providing answers from the "world's largest library." Not every book in a library is 100% true, either. Are we not saying the same thing?
No_Dragonfly_1005@reddit
it doesn't provide an answer, it predicts an answer. A little bit like a bucket of 99 red balls and 1 blue balls, predicting the next one drawn will be red, but instead with billions of parameters. "Providing" oversimplifies how the LLM functions.
notgmoney@reddit
Gotcha. I don't know much about them honestly. I was thinking of it as like a "best fit" answer based on the data it has observed for the subject. I obviously have more to learn.
megalodongolus@reddit
Yuuuuuup
___miki@reddit
/thread
ChernobylFleshlight0@reddit
It's not really an apples to apples comparison because the two aren't mutually exclusive.
Purely socialist countries are rare because most modern economies incorporate some level of market dynamics. However, some countries lean more heavily toward socialism, while others blend capitalist and socialist elements. Here are examples of both types:
Countries that Lean Toward Socialism:
These countries have strong state control over the economy, minimal private ownership, and extensive welfare systems. They tend to prioritize equality and public ownership over free markets.
Cuba has a centrally planned economy where the government controls most industries, particularly major sectors like healthcare, education, and energy. Private enterprise is very limited.
North Korea It’s a highly centralized socialist state where almost all property and means of production are state-owned, with strict government control over all aspects of the economy.
Venezuela While it has some capitalist elements, the Venezuelan government controls key industries such as oil and energy, and the state has enacted policies aimed at wealth redistribution and price controls.
Countries with Both Capitalist and Socialist Elements (Mixed Economies):
Most developed countries incorporate both capitalist and socialist principles. They have free markets but also offer significant social welfare programs and government intervention in the economy.
Sweden is often cited as an example of a social democracy. It has a market-based economy, but the government provides extensive social welfare, including universal healthcare, education, and a comprehensive social safety net.
Germany has a capitalist economy almost exclusively driven by the private sector, but it also offers strong worker protections, public healthcare, free education, and a significant welfare system.
Canada operates under a largely capitalist framework but has a strong social safety net, including universal healthcare, publicly funded education, and various social programs aimed at reducing inequality.
While France has a free market economy, it also has strong state involvement, with extensive public services like healthcare, education, and social security funded through high taxes.
These mixed economies show that it’s not necessary to choose between capitalism and socialism and why comparing one to the other isn't an "apples to apples" comparison. Many countries incorporate elements of both systems to provide a balance of economic growth and social welfare. That being said, the closest you could probably get to "pure capitalism" would likely Hong Kong (until some recent changes).
Historically, Hong Kong has been one of the most capitalist economies in the world. It has extremely low taxes, minimal government intervention, and a very free-market approach. The government largely stayed out of regulating businesses and industries, making it one of the freest economies globally.
However, even Hong Kong had some public services, such as healthcare and public housing, though these were minimal compared to the comprehensive welfare programs found in more socialist-leaning countries. For example, in Hong Kong you still have to pay to go see a Dr, but there's caps on the limits that the doctors and hospitals can charge (and, despite this, doctors and almost all medical workers in Hong Kong are still extremely well-paid).
Despite this, it’s important to note that even in highly capitalist economies like Hong Kong, some socialist principles (e.g., public services) still exist. In practice, purely capitalist systems without any form of welfare or public services are rare or non-existent today.
cluskillz@reddit
That's even with the erroneous assumption Scandinavian countries are socialist. Follow up question for ChatGPT: Define socialism and capitalism, and reconcile that with strong property rights in Scandinavian countries.
notgmoney@reddit
comparing US to scandinavian countries is comparing apples to oranges. the demographics are nowhere near the same
trahloc@reddit
TBF they are working hard at fixing that particular rebuttal.
Anti-SocialChange@reddit
Saying the country has enacted social democratic policies is not saying the country is socialist. Many of those policies have been enacted in the US and Canada, but neither country is socialist.
The real error is listing things like strong welfare systems as socialist, when they were foundational principals of capitalism for centuries.
49Flyer@reddit
I was going to point this out as well. Nordic countries are not socialist and their leaders and residents will be the first to tell you that. They certainly have robust welfare states but that is only possible when fed by a robust market economy.
Ok-Willingness-7126@reddit
I’m biased because I am a socialist, but I know for a fact that I’d say the same thing if you had posted “ChatGPT endorses socialism”; should we really be looking to an ai created and controlled by a private organization for our political opinions?
ComicBookFanatic97@reddit
ChatGPT is technically correct in that you can’t have poverty if everyone is dead.
kvakerok_v2@reddit
Obviously, since communism makes everyone equally poor not really rich.
infernodr@reddit
That's surprising considering char gpt is very left bias.
Happy-Risk-8746@reddit
Duh
Johnny-Sins_6942@reddit
Of course it does. AI does pattern recognition of many thousands of books, all of which show this to be true
sexpert_of_zaza@reddit
when im in a fucking stupid competition and my opponent is a political subreddit user
neverknowwhatsnext@reddit
Participation is mandatory and that's a problem that Socialism attempts to fix, even if they have to ruin everything to do it.
UsesMSPaint@reddit
We really just posting ChatGPT responses here now
GRpanda123@reddit
If ChatGPT says it must be true
yvonnalynn@reddit
Hahaha ikr. I wish AI was correct and unbiased!
IDontLikePayingTaxes@reddit (OP)
I just thought it was interesting
Important_Coyote4970@reddit
Well yea, obviously
Frosty_Storage_7476@reddit
Sound like op disagrees lol 🤡
MathEspi@reddit
Sounds about right. It is not unknown that adopting freer markets alongside the industrial revolution was the leading driving force in reducing global poverty
GinjaNinja1221@reddit
I agree. When's the last time we saw what true capitalism was?
49Flyer@reddit
Maybe Somalia in the 1990s?
IDontLikePayingTaxes@reddit (OP)
This argument is so far from the truth. Libertarianism does require property rights to be strictly upheld which requires a functioning government and robust rule of law.
49Flyer@reddit
While the example I gave was (partially) tongue-in-cheek, many users on this sub would disagree with you as evidenced by their chanting "Taxation is Theft!" without any sense of a realistic alternative mechanism for funding the government that you (and I) believe is necessary to ensure that the rule of law is upheld and individual rights (including property rights) are safeguarded.
Furthermore, u/GinjaNinja1221 asked about true capitalism, not true libertarianism, and I would suggest that as dysfunctional as 1990s Somalia was the markets themselves were never freer.
persona-3-4-5@reddit
There are different types of capitalism
GinjaNinja1221@reddit
Thank you for this.
aimerj@reddit
Hong Kong 2024
edillcolon@reddit
We know.
FabifromCali@reddit
The magic conch shell has spoken
Used-Juggernaut-7675@reddit
Skynet
thetruckboy@reddit
... And?
curtainedcurtail@reddit
“Chat GPT doesn’t understand what real socialism is”
AutoModerator@reddit
Reminder: 'not-true'-socialism has killed 100 million people. But wait, that was actually state capitalism! Carry on, comrade!
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
curtainedcurtail@reddit
Thanks and agreed. Good bot
FrancoisTruser@reddit
Awesome!
Professional_Golf393@reddit
But Scandinavia is capitalist smh
gooper29@reddit
You don't need an AI to see that socialism is inferior to capitalism, but it is refreshing to see a mainstream tool that doesn't advocate for socialism.
kwell42@reddit
Its too bad capitalism doesn't exist anymore. Prices are set by algorithms now a days, not supply vs demand. When you go to buy a house the computer tells you what its worth, buy a car, the computer tells you what its worth, buy eggs, the computer set the price. Capitalism is dead bro...
skilbofragns@reddit
If it's not capitalism then what is it?
DankTrebuchet@reddit
Can you explain how using a computer to determine the maximum possible return on investment isn’t the quintessential embodiment of capitalism?
jrherita@reddit
IceManO1@reddit
“However, both systems have strengths & limitations.” -ChatGPT
Think it’s why our republic has used a combination of both systems… imo. When examining what the big political parties have done over the years.
The_Cool_Kid99@reddit
Socialists: facts are exploitative
Gsomethepatient@reddit
We really shouldn't use ai to advocate for the free market
notgmoney@reddit
You don't say?!?!
mostlikelynotasnail@reddit
When everyone's at the bottom there is no wealth hence no poverty