AMD is getting SCREWED by Microsoft - Windows 10 vs 11 (Part 1)
Posted by Best_Chain_9347@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 95 comments
Posted by Best_Chain_9347@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 95 comments
cesaroncalves@reddit
Why are comments referring to Linux getting downvoted ?
Did I miss something?
conquer69@reddit
People dislike their cult-like behavior.
cesaroncalves@reddit
So users now start acting like a cult in return?
Just mentioning it get's the hate lol Damn
conquer69@reddit
Disliking cultists doesn't mean you are in a cult yourself.
More than 80% of gamers have nvidia cards which suck in linux and they just come here telling people to switch regardless. It's proselytizing.
Best_Chain_9347@reddit (OP)
Same goes for windows . Me i use both and Mac
Darlokt@reddit
That’s the cost of virtualisation based security. Win 11 has higher security standards than Windows 10 and AMD has jet to properly accelerate/optimise their CPUs for it. On Virtualisation Intel is leaps and bounds ahead, even in servers. On the Linux side, some optimisations were implemented, as the server market is more interesting to AMD than the consumer market, but AMD didn’t put in the work to make them work under Windows. This isn’t really on Windows or a conspiracy between Microsoft and Intel, only AMD not doing the driver work.
SmashStrider@reddit
THIS! Finally, someone gets it. There are so many people who believe that Microsoft hates AMD or something and Intel pays them money (Of course completely glossing over the fact that they are Microsoft chose them for Xbox processor and also started switching to EPYC for many of their Azure servers, and the fact that AMD hasn't even sued Intel regarding this till now).
The chance of AMD messing up by not providing proper driver support or working with Microsoft for optimizing Zen on Win 11 is much higher than something like 'Microsoft hates AMD'.
Let's say there are two computer science students who are to give a presentation from a teacher's computer on some application they made. Student A makes a well performing application, but also makes sure to optimize the application properly for the teacher's computer and not just theirs. Student B makes another application that arguably performs better on their computer, but doesn't bother optimizing it for the teacher's computer. So when the presentation time comes, Student A's application performs flawlessly, and Student B's application is buggy and problemetic, which results in Student A getting a higher score on the project.
The reason student Bs' spplication failed isn't because their application sucks. Neither is it because Student A and the teacher are conspiring against student B. It is because student B did not put the right amount of work to optimize the application, which is why it ends up failing.
This is basically what happened here. Whenever Intel releases software for windows for their processors, they make sure to optimize it for windows, which is why their processors have positive reception at launch(12th gen's scheduling was problematic, and even now it still is, where we can see stuff like Intel APO giving upwards of 20-30%+ performance boosts in some games). AMD did not do that, they didn't put as much time and effort into optimizing their products, which is why Zen actually ended up being a lot nerfed than it actually was. Hopefully AMD learns from this, and actually focuses on optimizing their product's software ahead of launch.
TLDR: No, Microsoft and Intel are not conspiring against AMD, it's just that AMD isn't putting the right amount of work into the software, which causes shit like Zen 5 to happen.
auradragon1@reddit
Shit AMD fans say to justify why AMD is better:
If only Windows had a better scheduler for Zen
If only Windows has better optimization for Zen
If only more apps use AVX512
If only AMD uses the same node as Apple
If only Nvidia doesn't monopolize CUDA
If only Nvidia doesn't buy game developers for optimizing for RTX
If only Intel doesn't bribe OEMs
okoroezenwa@reddit
You forgot how AMD somehow still has no money to do things.
auradragon1@reddit
Right on cue. https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/s/8f7hZvmKeH
okoroezenwa@reddit
Lmao, it’s so predictable. And of course they’re immediately on the defensive when it’s pointed out how much of a defence they were mounting. AMD too poor indeed.
auradragon1@reddit
They’re doing stock buybacks now. It’s AMD’s fault if they don’t pay software developers to make a viable CUDA alternative or AI solutions for games.
wtallis@reddit
Virtualization based security isn't really driver territory; it's pretty deeply entangled with core functionality of the OS, enough so that Microsoft definitely needs to share in the blame for not getting it right.
IANVS@reddit
What a surprise...
sub_RedditTor@reddit
It's time for Linux to shine.
BlueGoliath@reddit
Linux desktop will never go mainstream.
sub_RedditTor@reddit
Never say never ..it's caching up pretty fast ..
BlueGoliath@reddit
You're right. After decades it finally hit 5%. Maybe.
sub_RedditTor@reddit
What you are forgetting or9dt probably you didn't even know about this is that MacOS is Linux based Linux Wiki .
Conjo_@reddit
it's not
sub_RedditTor@reddit
What's not ? You don't know how to type !
Conjo_@reddit
it's not [the only thing you said it is]
macos is not linux or linux based or related
sub_RedditTor@reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxmasterrace/s/xr0i7XoMVp
Conjo_@reddit
I'm not sure what's worse, that you could be serious or that you could be joking
sub_RedditTor@reddit
Lmao ..Both .. There's soo much misinformation out there .
penmoid@reddit
MacOS is based on BSD, not Linux.
sub_RedditTor@reddit
Lamo typical apple .. takes something and then makes it look like they built or developed something them selves.
penmoid@reddit
It has never been a secret. You being ignorant to something does not mean it was being withheld from you.
Duckeenie@reddit
MacOS is NOT based on Linux.
sub_RedditTor@reddit
What is is based on then . ?.Yes I know about BSD but it has some Linuz in it as well.!
penmoid@reddit
If you “know about BSD” then you know that it is not Linux.
Plebius-Maximus@reddit
If they knew I don't think they'd care as it's not really relevant to their point. Most gamers don't use MacOS either?
sub_RedditTor@reddit
182k members on Reddit alone . https://www.reddit.com/r/macgaming/s/S6sbdaRuhN
Plebius-Maximus@reddit
Do I need to link the steam hardware survey yet or will you accept you're wrong?
sub_RedditTor@reddit
Yes. Please. Go for it . Share all the info you heve . I love reading..
Plebius-Maximus@reddit
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam
Mac makes up 1.3% and Linux makes up 1.92%
Windows is 96.78%.
That's why I said Linux and mac OS are irrelevant to most PC gamers. You can call it an opinion or call me biased all you want, but as per steam hardware survey almost 97% of users are on windows. With just over 3% on Mac and Linux put together.
sub_RedditTor@reddit
I got the stats from some random website..
As of September 2023, the most frequently used OS by users of the gaming platform Steam was Windows at almost 97 percent. Linux followed in second place, with 1.6 percent, ahead of OSX with 1.43 percent share..
Linux will go steadily because of few companies working on anti-cheats for linux .
sub_RedditTor@reddit
That's complete nonsense. It's Linux . you're just ignoring the fact.
Plebius-Maximus@reddit
It's obviously pretty different to Linux. You're wilfully misrepresenting things here.
However MacOS is just as irrelevant as Linux is to most gamers.
sub_RedditTor@reddit
That's your opinion. And I'm not misrepresenting..
You just don't like the fact that Linux is better than windows in some cases ..
Or you just someone who's very biased..
sub_RedditTor@reddit
It's way more .. Have you even tried any of the Linux distros ?
Are you a part of the linux community
cesaroncalves@reddit
It's been increasing very rapidly, and it's gotten a lot of support in the past couple of years.
Most of it comes from valves proton.
If you're a gamer, and you're in steam, most of the games are now working, but outside of steam, I still don't suggest it for the casual users.
I still download GOG games and set them to run through steam just to avoid the hassle.
There is still the apps problem, most people that do anything besides gaming and basic office work, don't have a lot of options. If the userbase increases companies may be inclined to move to Linux more, but that is still not the case.
Duckeenie@reddit
I like how the whole premise of the video ignores the fact that 24H2 is due out this month which includes the fix.
100GHz@reddit
Because he can have another video in a month about the patch? Common problem with all the hype driven tech journalism on YouTube.
djashjones@reddit
I'd ditch windows in a heart beat if the apps/drivers I use were available on Linux.
Ilktye@reddit
I wouldnt. I use and makntain Linux everyday on servers at work, but also firmly believe using best tools for the job.
And for PC gaming, its Windows because that is what developers and publishers target.
DanuPellu@reddit
I wonder how many players talking about switching to Linux actually use it in a daily basis for basics activities such as surfing, media consumption and office apps.
Been hearing those « complains » for decades, company like Steam pushing that way and the gamers buying it not that strong.
Could have been MacOS a possible solution but the HW locked part lowered the interest.
caustictoast@reddit
I have used Linux as a daily driver and I swapped back to windows. Mainly due to games, but other small headaches too. I still use Linux daily at work, but I don’t have to maintain those installs
chx_@reddit
I had.
I started using Linux in 1993 even before it was 1.0 and use it to this day on servers, routers, command line. I dual booted Windows with Linux late 90s switched it to as a daily driver in 2004 and left it behind in 2018 and now run Windows 10 + WSL and intend to do so for a very very long time. LTSC for the win. https://xkcd.com/619/ is just as true today as it was even if Flash is gone. The incentives are not there. There's quite a few companies interested in making Linux a very good server OS but there's basically no incentive for making it a good client OS. Multimedia (DRM especially), printer/scanner, strange enterprise networks, all of these were recurring problems. And right now as far as I am able to tell, Wayland is still not ready and X is moribund.
JesusIsMyLord666@reddit
I just wish more Linux users would acknowledge the issues instead of having this cult like mentality. I really want Linux to become mainstream and I want it to be great. But it will never happen when core users are like “Nah, it’s fine as it is”. That XQC is painfully true.
DanuPellu@reddit
Same here. Running dual boot during IT study and early career but then just left it in my personal life.
OftenSarcastic@reddit
I ran Linux as my main OS for about 2 years on my home PC over a decade ago and all the basic activities were already fine at that point. A lot of the software I have installed on my Windows PC today is mostly open source software I also used on Linux: Firefox, Thunderbird, VLC, Libreoffice, GIMP, Krita.
Running games through Wine was a terrible experience a decade ago, but everything else basically just worked. Installing new software from the distro repositories works just like installing software from your phone's app store.
Krendrian@reddit
Using linux for regular daily stuff is identical to using windows. You open a program and use it. No need to hack the pentagon from the terminal or whatever people imagine every time you need to open a browser.
Playing games doesn't require black magic either.
DanuPellu@reddit
No black magic required. But for non IT people, that’s not that friendly.
Even if people complaining about Windows for decades (and recently with the Win11 HW requirements), even non-gamers did not make the move out of it into Linux. And that is the easy case.
INITMalcanis@reddit
I think you might underestimate just how much progress has been made in gaming support, especially via Steam. It's not completely true to say "If a Windows game isn't being actively prevented from working through Proton, then it'll work". There are often caveats around mods, for example. But the odds are now very good indeed.
I definitely agree that the "If..." is a pretty big one, and it encompasses many of the most popular games that people play. But publishers actively preventing games working on Linux isn't a problem that "Linux" can solve. That's a barrier for us, as customers, to address.
It's one thing for a shop to put up a sign saying "our staff only speak English" - it's another to put one up saying "customers caught speaking non-English languages will be trespassed". The first is a skills gap. The second is not.
Ilktye@reddit
True, and you can also run any kind of server software on Windows Servers, but we use Linux servers for that. It's because Linux servers are the best for it.
Same way I use Windows desktop for gaming because it's the best for it.
klapetocore@reddit
you do know that linux runs on desktops, cellphones, TVs, smartwatches etc, right?
Ilktye@reddit
You do know this is /r/hardware subreddit. It deals in PC hardware.
djashjones@reddit
I'm a casual gamer and it comes second to what I want my PC to do But your right on the "The right tool for the job". The tools I use daily are supported on Windows and Mac only.
I have 2 mac mini's and a macbook pro in a cupboard that I can't repurpose due to not enough memory and/or storage. So unless Apple drop their outrageous pricing for memory/storage, MacOS is not an option either.
Brorim@reddit
probably are .. try linux in a vm to kinda check it out 👍
Best_Chain_9347@reddit (OP)
Maybe its already available but on different distros . ! Is it gaming or productivity related ?
djashjones@reddit
Nowadays, mostly music/real time audio related.
Lost_Tumbleweed_5669@reddit
There's no way this isn't on purpose.
Best_Chain_9347@reddit (OP)
Of course it was .
khaledmohi@reddit
stop it.
Microsoft is not responsible of zen 5 failure, AMD is.
Best_Chain_9347@reddit (OP)
Whats wrong with you ?
khaledmohi@reddit
stop it.
Microsoft is not responsible of zen 5 failure, AMD is.
Best_Chain_9347@reddit (OP)
Yes they are
khaledmohi@reddit
stop it.
Microsoft is not responsible of zen 5 failure, AMD is.
Best_Chain_9347@reddit (OP)
Yes they are .
lefty200@reddit
There is also some random bug in both the Windows 10/11 install process, that can cause the same machine to perform worse for unknown reasons. Hardware unboxed discovered this recently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izqEZmjTfuM
superpewpew@reddit
From my understanding this only affects Win11 - Steve never mentioned Win10 having this issue.
Please stay away from spreading false information.
lefty200@reddit
Yeah, you're right. my bad
tioga064@reddit
Its probably because of all the security and visualization stuff of w11. They should test with both with all disabled and as admin to see the kernel diferences itself
IceBeam92@reddit
I would say, I am grateful for Windows 11 existing. Because of this, we still have a semi-solid Windows that is still supported by security updates, Windows 10.
bestanonever@reddit
Shame we are on the final year of support of it. I'm moving to Windows 11, like it or not at the end of Windows 10 support. Been using Win10 since 2016, so I can't complain, longest supported software (outside games) that I've ever used.
surf_greatriver_v4@reddit
If you really want it, win 10 iot ltsc has several more years support yet
Best_Chain_9347@reddit (OP)
Why Microsoft is doing this . ! ?
jigsaw1024@reddit
Hanlon's razor: Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.
Windows under the hood has been a mess for decades at this point.
Best_Chain_9347@reddit (OP)
Its so frustrating . One would think that the latest version of Windows would not only be more feature rich but also more refined and fine tuned for performance .
The one thing i'm really upset about is that they are favoring Intel . ! Shouldn't Microsoft be a neutral play ground for everyone . ?
surf_greatriver_v4@reddit
There's no space before punctuation
Prince_Uncharming@reddit
It’s only “favoring” intel if they’re making changes specifically to benefit Intel, which they’re not.
Best_Chain_9347@reddit (OP)
I don't really agree with that . Microsoft was ready for update which was gonna benefit and unlock zen5 performance in regards to branch prediction but they didn't go ahead with the update .
The sa,me goes with that silly admin mode limitation for amd . Its been like this since zen3 whilst intel was doing really good .
InconspicuousRadish@reddit
It's not a question of agreeing or disagreeing, it's fact. They're not writing code into Windows to outright hamper specific architecture.
Claiming Microsoft is favoring a CPU manufacturer is both false, and shows a certain level of ignorance towards how software is developed.
astro_plane@reddit
Windows needs a massive rewrite, but noooo we need to worry about 40 years of backwards compatibility.
IceBeam92@reddit
I wouldn’t trust any re-write this new Windows team does, best parts of Windows is still the older parts Windows Vista/7 guys wrote.
steve09089@reddit
What, don't you want memory leaks in your Task Manager?
Prince_Uncharming@reddit
I mean yeah, we do.
A new version of windows requiring entirely new applications would be DOA.
djashjones@reddit
Windows on Arm? lol
Prince_Uncharming@reddit
I mean, sort of?
WoA without an efficient and “it just works” compatibility layer was previously DOA. Newer versions of WOA obviously bring a lot more to the table, but also isn’t a full rewrite of the OS with all the legacy cruft removed.
djashjones@reddit
Would be nice but not gonna happen as it will cost to much money. I waiting for the windows subscription service to be added next.
Takes me a day to set up windows even with a Pro licence. Tweaking everything, de-bloating, de-malware, etc.
Prince_Uncharming@reddit
What point are you trying to make exactly?
My entire point earlier was that a new rewrite of windows without legacy support was DOA. Your comment has nothing to do with that?
WorkingITler@reddit
I hate Win11(and Microsoft as a whole)
Noone will ever convince me of anything different
Brorim@reddit
luckily you can install linux mint 22 and avoid all the hassle
uKnowIsOver@reddit
I will stay on Win10 forever but it is not AMD that's getting screwed by Microsoft....everything performs better on 10 compared to 11.